"DISCOVER CHURCH"
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9am RANGEVILLE COMMUNITY CHURCH. "Rumours International" 323 Ruthven St (Opposite WOW Site "N" Sound)
* In 2008, Rangeville Community Church was having trouble with getting council approval for a church to be built. As it was originally zoned for a church but council wanted churches to be in industrial areas. The church has struggled how to deal with the issue and some left (Under 50's). (Kenmore Baptist had 12 acres to build on and BCC said no, they took council to court and Kenmore lost and it cost them a $1,000,000." See "Bris" for "Brisbane churches".)
*
Money for the actual building was raised in one offering
of $1,000,000 in Oct 2005.
* Land purchased for new building at north east corner of Stenner & Mackenzie
Sts opposite Gabbinbar School was in the hands of the Uniting Church and they
chose to sell it to Rangeville and chose to not sell it back for the price paid
which was $1.3 million but the price paid back was over $4 million.
1. Number of people: 380.
(Full story about numbers over the years: In their old church in High St there were 208 people
at the 8.15am service. With 57 at the 10.15am service; 90 people at 6.30pm which
totalled 355 but roughly half of the night service went in morning so average
is 305 all up or 265 in both morning services. 317 in morning on 28 Sep 2003
when at COC with chair space of 380. The big jump from 317 to 380 in 4 months
possibly attributed to other ex-Uniting members joining. (Some drive 60 minutes to come to RCC,
driving past their towns Uniting Church) At least two
retired ministers from the Uniting Church have moved from NSW to this church
in early 2004. Many country churches and associated ministries have left the
Uniting Church and typically associate themselves with Crosslinks in Canberra
which typically creditials Pastors for many independent churches.)
2. Number of chairs: Rumours has about 1000 in top section. (High St had about 250. Christian Outreach Centre had about 500. Martin
Luther Primary School had about 400 seats. Cathedral Centre Neil
and James St had about 350 seats (One half used only of two sections).
**3. Type of person: Many are well educated professionals. There's quite
a few divorced perhaps. Single parents are never judged.
4. Socio-Economic Status: Medium-high.
5. Amount of kids: Perhaps one quarter of the church are under 18yo.
6. Ages of people: 0-12 about 45.
7. 50% are men.
*8. Weekly offering published: Weekly average is $5-$6,000.
The beginning 4 or 5 months of 2001 was a particularly bad time for many churches
apparently resulting in a $5-$11,000 loss which co-incided with a new house
building down turn.
9. Lateness of people getting to church: Some.
**10. Any other interesting information: On the 25 Feb 2001 a 12 acre
block of land had been initially bought for 1.3 million to put a church of 1000
which is on the North Eastern corner at Mackenzie and Stenner Sts, opposite
Gabbinbar School. The land was granted council approve to build a church on.
(The Uniting church has given loans without ties of ownership, like AOG Liberty
in south Brisbane for about $5 million in 2001.) $885,000 cash was promised
to Rangeville Uniting by the congregation by 12 Nov 2001. But the building cost
is $4-6 million. In Dec 2003 Rangeville had announced it would leave the Uniting
Church due to the Uniting Church allowing gay ministers. (Part of the problem
was that the Uniting church is made up of organisations like Lifeline and Blue
Care etc.. These organisations were given voting rights.)
*Rangeville Community
Church were temporarily offered 16 church other church buildings to have their
services when they sold the High St building. 5 were offers on a Sunday but
only one was a Sunday morning which was COC. RCC stayed at COC for 15 months.
RCC was on at 8am. COC was on at 10am. Both churches combined for a 6pm service.
However, in Oct 2004 COC had separated themselves once a fortnight and moved
their 65 people to a large back room of the COC complex leaving RCC with 100
people in the main auditorium. RCC left
Christian Outreach Centre 2 Jan 2005 and moved to Martin Luther Primary School
Hall on Hume St, slightly north of Stenner St. RCC individuals left a gift of
$2,400 to COC as a thank-you.
*** UNITING CHURCH ONLY GAVE 75% OF THE MONEY BACK TO RANGEVILLE COMMUNITY CHURCH. It was announced from the pulpit 6 June 2004 by Herman Ruyters that the Uniting church would "soon" give back the money to the people. UCA ended up doing this individually. Any money given to the former "Rangeville Uniting Church" for the purchase of the land was to be refunded to each person as they gave. Herman had asked the congregation to write new cheques for Rangeville Community Church so they can purchase the land in their own name instead of in the name of the Uniting Church of Australia. However, in 2004, the Uniting Church only gave back each person 75% of what they paid for the land. Citing "administration costs." An individual secretly paid through a solicitor the gap between $1.3 million and over $4 million. On the 3 July 2005 a large tent was put on the land and a service was held to commemorate the purchase of the land. Part of the original agreement was that a church had to be placed on the land within 2 years.
*When RCC was a part of the Uniting Church and the National vote went towards having gay ministers. In June 2003 till Jan 2004, tithes and offerings decreased so much that the wages for the church office had dwindled. (Practically all Uniting Churches across Australia had a substantial decrease in offerings taken.) The reserves were reduced until there was only 2 days of wages left. However, as soon as they left the Uniting church, by March 2004, the tithes and offerings had increased so much that the reserves had built up to it's former level in early 2003.
*Herman
Ruyters has lost quite a bit of money personally from leaving the UCA. An individual
and a church gave Herman Ruyters all personal money he lost from leaving the Uniting
Church.
**Peter Pellicaan was put on
as a Pastor at Rangeville Oct 2004 and left 28 Oct 2007. Peter's dad Keith was Pastor at Vision Community
Church until early 2004. Keith & Peter and his wife Cassie occasionally attended
Vision Community Church in 2004. Keith Pellicaan often went to Rangeville Community
Church 2005 and helped out at The Basement to feed the poor at Toowoomba City
Church in 2004.
* 30 PEOPLE HAVE IMMEDIATELY JOINED RANGEVILLE SINCE THEY LEFT THE UNITING CHURCH. Some people will think that some left Rangeville Community Church since it left the UCA but on the contrary, it has gained many more church goers. Some of which were former UCA members from other local Uniting churches.
*CHURCH AND TAX BREAKS. A Gosford church specialist has refused
to help many churches attain tax breaks but has helped here. On 4 Dec 05 elders
announced building was to start July 06. "To build it all in one go"
said Herman. Other churches have constantly told them there can never be enough
offices nor cupboard space.
11. Time there AND date of visit: 23 Jan 2005. Some 400 times.
(258 people Good Friday 2001; 245 people at Mater Dei 11am Pentecost service;
385 people 9am & 135 at 6pm on 30 Jan 2005; 300 9am 2nd service at Cathedral
Centre & 84 at 1st 6pm service at Cathedral Centre. 318 people on 4 Dec
05.)
12. Length of service: Allow 1.5 hours.
13. This and other service times: 9am; 6pm.
*14. Preacher: Ps Herman Ruyters often preaches but there are many local
rostered volunteers who preach. Senior Associate Pastor from 1/8/08 Andrew Hoey (Andrew was raised in Sydney, did a BEc at Macquarie University. Moved to Townsville in 1995. In 1999 did Honours degree in marine biology at James Cook University in 1999. Studying early post-settlement survival of coral reef fishes. Did 7 years as laboratory manager at JCU. PhD focused on herbivorous fish that promotes reef resilience. Then a University of Southern Queensland nursing lecturer in Physiology.)
*15. Feeling of building: Nice feeling of togetherness.
***16. Estimate style of belief: There previous denomination
formally accepted homosexuals as paid ministers. Ratified in August 2003. This
caused a great controversy in the press and in the overall church. Rangeville
was staunchly opposed to this move.
*** (KJVA Scripture says "Lev 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as
he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall
surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." Lev 20:23 "And
ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you:
for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them.")
***Uniting Church research said only 1% of the Australian population is gay.
Only in densely poulated areas is it 3%. (Not 10%.)
***Anglican attending parishioners have sunk to ONE tenth of the size of the
Catholic church in real attendance figures. Anglicans
have similar views of gay clergy as the UCA.
*** Other churches / individuals are also members of EMU. All members of EMU
are against this area - accepting gays into the clergy. (EMU (Queensland) is
an Evangelical movement within the Uniting church which opposes all such moves.)
(It stands for - Evangelical Members of the Uniting church.) One of the options
to resolve this area that Rangeville had discussed was for ALL the Uniting churches
in the state of Queensland to leave the Uniting church denomination. (Range
Christian Fellowship and Shiloh have already broken away from the Uniting church
over this issue. It happened as a result when the Uniting church was only CONTEMPLATING
having gay clergy.) Also, RCC has a national reputation for not only been very
Charismatic but there's a strong deliverance ministry attached from Rev Dr Col
Warren's many years of work, (having officially retired mid 2001). This ministry
believes Christians don't need straight counselling but can be oppressed or
"dogged" by evil spirits (without being overtaken), but which needs
intensive prayer before one can be free from bad habits. Canada has legalised
gay weddings. In Canada, a gay teacher won the right in court to teach Grade
1's homosexuality.
* On 16 Jan 2005 Herman water sprinkled
a baby as a sign of baptism. Full immersion is also accepted.
* HOME GROUPS ARE ELITIST AND CLOSED AND ARE NOT IN ANYWAY DIFFERENT TO TRYING TO GET INTO A "CLOSED BRETHREN" MEETING. It must be said that as with most churches there can be a form of elitism within Home Groups. Those who are used to the open arms approach of Baptist home groups should not be surprised to find it difficult to break the ice if one attempts to join most home groups here. Instead of the thought "Oh great, another person has come, we will soon have to split so more can come." It is more like "Oh no, another person to fill this house, how many more are we supposed to take, isn't there some sort of limit on class sizes?" Oddly enough, Herman once tried to attend a closed Brethren church and he was shown the door. (I tried as well, with the same result, thus I know how elitist Closed Brethren are.) Well, the same is true for home groups in ALL denominations and here is no exception. Somehow, you have to "know someone", then some leaders have to see where there is space, this has taken an agonizing 2 months. This is atypical of poorly managed house groups in many churches for over 10 years - it is simply not a short term problem nor has a quick fix solution. The bottom line? Many people have complained to me about house groups here and Assembly of God and some have even been shown the door! (Yup.) You do get warned by people about how home groups are "basically closed". So this is a warning, so that you don't get hurt by being bullied. Then finding yourself leaving the home group as well as the whole church. On one hand, few people could handle a massive amount of people in their own homes. But that’s not the person’s fault, it is the manager’s responsibility to ask people to open up more homes. On the other hand, if Lazarus wondered in from begging on the streets to the rich man's "bible study", would he be shown the door? Of course. So not only did the rich man not give anything to Lazarus but he was harmed. Keep in mind, you don't get banned from heaven for not attending church, but you do if you withhold your hand from the poor. Luk 16:19-31. Would you bandage Lazarus? Feed him? Clothe him? How different are you from the rich man?
17. Dress code so as not to stand out: Casual to smart.
18. How to get there: Travel north along Hume St, cross over Margaret St, turn west or left into Chalk Drive, turn south or left into Ruthven St, shortly turn right into lane opposite Wow store.
*(Rangeville Community Church were formerly at High St for decades then it was
sold then church shared Christian Outreach Centre for 15 months until 2 Jan
2005. Then from 2 Jan 2005 till 6 Nov 2005 at Hume St near Stenner St at Martin
Luther Primary School with 400 -500 seats. Then moved to Cathedral Centre Neil
and James St 13 Nov 2005 and was booked till Dec 2006. Then moved to Rumours for 2007+.)
6pm RANGEVILLE COMMUNITY CHURCH. "Rumours International" 323 Ruthven St (Opposite WOW Site "N" Sound)
1. Number of people: 150
2. Number of chairs: About 500.
3. Type of person: -.
4. Socio-Economic Status: -.
5. Amount of kids: 26 were from high school. Of 135 at 6pm on 30 Jan 2005.
6. Ages of people: -.
7. % are men.
8. Weekly offering published:
9. Lateness of people getting to church: -.
10. Any other interesting information:
11. Time there AND date of visit: 150 people on 23 Jan 2005. Has been very consistently
90 people for 5 years at High St. Growth to 150 is probably due to said reasons
as well as this now being a "Seeker Service" where it is designed
for the unchurched and is a short service of strictly one hour. 7 Nov 2004;
28 Sep 2003. Some 40 times previously. (Were 100 people on 7 Nov 2004. In their
old church in High St there were 208 people at the 8.15am service. With 57 at
the 10.15am service; 90 people at 6.30pm.) (143 people combined service with
COC 14 Nov 2004. Rangeville Church always had paid the cleaning bill of COC
in lieu of rent.) Were 208 people for very first opening service at Martin Luther
2 Jan 2005. Were 230 people when combined with TCC at Neil St for a combined
service as Martin Luther Hall was not available and on the hour the church office
received notice they could not have the hall, Ian Shelton was there and offered
his church.) As an example RCC churches official figures include a conservative
count at 31 July 2005 of 198 at 9am; 9 kids; 122 6pm. 10 July 227am, 38 kids,
126 6pm.
12. Length of service: 1 hour.
13. This and other service times: 6pm; 8am.
14. Preacher: Wes Hitzke (Drummer of Remedy) (Ps Herman Ruyters is the Senior
Pastor).
15. Feeling of building: Anticipative.
16. Estimate style of belief:
* Peter's wife, Cassie Pellicaan testified from pulpit "Mum was Lutheran, Dad
was Anglican, From Grantham/ Twmba. Peter and I met in CBD Pub (when he was
playing there). I was quite a party girl….. I felt I was the heathen Delilah
(who corrupted the Pastors son somehow & felt judged by our previous church
[Vision]).
17. Dress code so as not to stand out: Casual to smart.
18. How to get there: Travel north along Hume St, cross over Margaret St, turn west or left into Chalk Drive, turn south or left into Ruthven St, shortly turn right into lane opposite Wow store.
*1.
# of people: Consistently 90 people for year. (3
weeks after Clark Taylor meetings which rose a dramatic 40% or to 125 people.
By the 15 Oct 00.)
2. Empty chairs: Maybe 20.
***3.
Type of person: "Range Christian Fellowship" split from "Rangeville Uniting
Church of Australia" or "Rangeville Community Church" in about 1996-98. Majority in this church are small business
people and the people who stayed in Rangeville mostly work for the Government
/ large business and have a degree.
4. Socio- Economic Status:
Small business types.
5. Kids: Many.
6. Ages: 1-70
7. Men: 50%
8. Offering: $3400 anticipated. Actual $2760.
9. Late arrivals: 9.
***10.
Interesting info: They bought a $500,000 Squash Court building on a $107,000 deposit.
The business is still running and is owned and ran by the church. "Range Christian Fellowship" was
doing so badly financially at one stage they nearly lost their building but Vision
and Westside AOG gave about $1500 each. Clark Taylor preached there and is back
with his first wife Anne after 2 failed marriages. "Range Christian Fellowship" are on speaking terms
with "Rangeville Community Church" however they did not re-join them when RCC left the Uniting Church due to small issues. Various INDEPENDENT ministries came FROM Range Including
"The Light" radio Station, "A Bunch of Christians" with David Stanfield
(1999 Grand Champion Carnival float, Christmas the Full Story, New Years celebration
party of 15,000 people, 24 hour Praise and Worship Events. Rangeville Community Church gave
ABOC $1200 8 Oct 00) Other ministries borne from this church include: Flagstone
Ck Church of 30 people; Dianne Pearce Prophetic Ministries; "Wheels of Fire"
Ministries (Semi-trailer stage, puppets, outback ministry support for other ministries,
Gary Armstrong.) A split from this church was "Revival Ministries Australia"
/ "Shiloh" with Paul Gallaghan.
11. Date & Time spent: Once in late 2004. 15 visits 3/99-10/00; 15/10/00
9.55am-12.10pm.
12. When service finished. About 11.15am
13. This & other
service times: 9.30am.
14. Preacher: Ps Alan (& Robyn) Small
was a qualified minister in the Uniting Church of Australia having worked for Rangeville Uniting Church in Toowoomba. The Elders in "Range Christian Fellowship" include Rod Jurgs who works at Samson Communications, POB 7095 Toowomba 4352. Gillian Collett who is the wife and secretary for Toowoomba psychology centre Ian Collett. Gretchen Mitchell (nee Burger) has worked in psychology with Ian Collett approximately 2005 - 2009.
15. Feeling: Has a definite deep seated,
old Uniting church inner "resilience".
*16. Their belief: Vineyard
worship. "Range Christian Fellowship" is one of the very few churches into the "Toronto Blessing". Charismatics where
20% of them physically gasp and "Oooh!" and "Aaaah!" but only
20% of the time. See FAQ's for details of the Toronto Blessing. Has John G Lake "Healing Rooms" in 2006-2008.
17. Dress:
Casual to smart.
18. Travel west along Bridge St turn right into Greenwattle
St, 2nd left into Blake St.
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