FUNNY AND INTERESTING STORIES. A WORLD RESEARCH STUDY OF EVERY CHURCH IN ONE SAMPLE CITY, FOR ANYONE WHO WANTS TO SEE INFORMATION ABOUT CHURCH.
Ab To Ag
*** - Three asterisks means it's the most important sentence to read.
** - Means it's quite important.
* - Means it's interesting.
1. NUMBER OF PEOPLE: 112 (In 2001 there were only 48 people,
growth due to perhaps awareness of church's existence via big time preachers
like Jesse Du Plantis etc... and also churches tend to fill up to 80% capacity.)
76 ppl May 2001.
2. NUMBER OF CHAIRS: 130 seats.
**3. Type of person: Met an accountant, plumber. Classic "Word"
Christians, not toward Toronto Blessing.
4. Socio-Economic Status: Medium to High.
5. Amount of kids: There were about 18 in the creche and Sunday School. Thus
there were 94 people in the church area as 94 + 18 = 112.
6. Ages of people: Even cross section.
7. 50% are men.
8. Weekly offering published: Not given.
9. Lateness of people getting to church: -.
*10. Any other interesting information: Jesse Duplantis got $12,000 in offerings
at Empire in 2000 for one night meeting only. Making $18,000 as $6,000 was already
met to cover costs by one individual.
***I personally believe that up until ALF entered the scene,
AOG HAD NO DENOMINATIONAL "COMPETITION", only "competing"
with Independent Charismatic churches. I have noticed a steady small stream
of AOG people going to ALF which could mean ALF could raise up to be the second
largest charismatic denomination outside of AOG. (ALF have a 3,500 seat facility
at Gold Coast built in about the year 2000.)
***NOTE: THE MAIN DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ABUNDANT LIFE FELLOWSHIP
AND ASSEMBLIES OF GOD IS THAT AOG DO NOT SUPPORT TEACHING KENNETH COPELAND INCLUDING
JERRY SEVELLE, CREFLO DOLLAR etc..
11. TIME THERE AND DATE OF VISIT: 23 Mar 2003 11.35am- 12.10pm. 60 mins 2/7/00.
Attended some 30 services 2000- 2001.
12. Length of service: 2 hours.
13. This and other service times: 10am; 6pm. No night meeting last Sunday of
month.
14. Preacher: Ps Ray Gale comes from various ministry positions before. By 4/01
they finished seed planting Ipswich ALF.
15. Feeling of building: OK, bit old. (Was bought from Catholics who are now
in Cambell & Curzon Sts at Mater Dei.) June 2001 they have 4 TV's and computer
generated words.
*16. Estimate style of belief. Charismatic. (All Charismatic churches have
people who can speak in tongues and they can lay hands on your head or shoulders
if your sick for a spiritual healing or simply to be blessed.) Ray was talking
about the material blessings one can claim from Scripture as did Duplantis.
*** Kenneth Copeland is divorced and remarried by 2007. This is a Kenneth Copeland church. (This is a good example of the tremendous weakness of Wikipedia. Wikipedia does not say Kenneth Copeland has been divorced.) Why? The parishioners of Kenneth Copeland want this hushed up as much as possible. Why? Example, when one tithing businessman found out Kenneth Copeland was re-married. He replied "Well I’m never going to Abundant Life Fellowship." Is Kenneth Copeland re-married? A government employee, who tithes to Abundant Life Fellowship, emphatically stated these facts. He was DEFENDING Kenneth Copeland BEING divorced and then having gone through re-marriage. Obviously, there is no question whether Kenneth Copeland is re-married. Only whether it is Biblical. (Mat 5:32 Too many of you are using that as a cover for selfishness and whim, pretending to be righteous just because you are 'legal.' Please, no more pretending. If you divorce your wife, you're responsible for making her an adulteress (unless she has already made herself that by sexual promiscuity). And if you marry such a divorced adulteress, you're automatically an adulterer yourself. You can't use legal cover to mask a moral failure. The Message.) Thus, many Christians believe re-marriage is adultery. Kenneth Copeland’s daughter Terri Pearsons is not re-married (by 2007).
17. Dress code so as not to stand out: Casual to smart.
18. How to get there: Travel north along Hume, turn right at Jelicoe, plenty
of park space at rear.
19. ACCEPTANCE IN CHURCH AS A VISITOR: OK.
20. People who talked to me after the service: Some, not many.
21. Length of time they talked: Briefly.
22. How soon do visitors get talked to after service?: Fair while.
23. HOW MUCH CHURCH IS OPEN TO WIDER CHRISTIAN COMMUNITY: Fairly open. This
church is mostly known for bringing big American preachers to the Empire Theatre.
24. Unusual things about worship: Nothing unusual.
25. EMPHASIS OF MINISTRY: Very much out to proclaim the "Word", or
bible truths to the Christian church.
26. Famous business people: The former owner of Home Icecream/ Pixie Keith Reisenger
fellowshipped here.
27. Famous people: -.
28. KNOWABLE SONGS: Largely knowable songs. Some songs are written by the Pastor's
daughter.
29. Quality of sound system/ loudness: Good.
30. Quality of preaching generally: Quite good.
31. Meaningfulness/ depth of preaching: Quite ok. The Pastor CAN preach "in
the anointing." In other words, his words are revealed by the Holy Spirit
and this can speak into your spirit with a personal depth.
32. Enjoyment/ lightness of preaching: OK, it gets funny too.
33. Impact/ deepness/ enjoyment of worship: Yes.
34. Amount of home groups: About 3 or 4.
35. How to access home groups: Through newsletter or administrator.
36. Friendliness of home groups: Good.
37. Intention to build: None as yet.
38. Estimate percentage church owned / rented?: Probably paying it off.
39. Estimate age of building: 50yo.
40. Dowdiness of building outside: Not bad.
41. Inside?: Not too bad.
42. Have sister churches where? Gold Coast is the main one. From memory, they
would have about 20 churches nationally.
43. Sunday School availability: Yes.
44. Ages availability: -.
45. % kids attend: -.
46. Noise of kids at back: ok.
47. Where is bible college? In house.
48. Where do kids school? -.
49. How many missionaries do they support: Some.
50. What cost? -.
51. What is average they give to missions: -.
52. What is average they give to local poor? Zero.
53. International poor? -.
54. Other emphasis on giving: -.
55. Per head total giving: -.
56. Extent of other church programs: Running a bible college.
57. Pastor receive stipend? Yes.
58. How much? -.
59. Qualifications of Pastor: -.
60. Estimated of parishioners complaints. -.
61. Estimated ability to resolve parishioners complaints: Not bad.
6pm ABUNDANT Life Fellowship. Jelicoe and Hume Sts. (No Sunday night service last Sunday of month)
1. NUMBER OF PEOPLE: 49.
2. NUMBER OF CHAIRS: 130 seats.
3. Same.
4. Socio-Economic Status: Same.
5. Amount of kids. Few.
6. Ages of people. 20-55yo. 7. -. 8. -. 9. Lateness -.
*10. They have a web site which they plan to have live feeds with music in
the background of preaching "promos" with graphics.
11. TIME THERE AND DATE OF VISIT: 2 hrs 1/7/01. 1
2. Length of service. 1hr 45m.
13. This and other service times. 6pm; 10am. Except at the last Sunday of the
month it's at 6pm.
14. Ps Ray Gale.
15. Feeling of building. New video mix of music to Ps Gale's preaching with
graphics went over well.
16. Estimate style of belief. Same.
17. Dress to not stand out. Casual to smart.
18. Same.
ADVENTIST. See Seventh- day Adventist.
*1. NUMBER OF PEOPLE: 14 (This church building closed down in about mid 2005 and the building was for sale Jan 2006. The reason for it's closure is undoubtedly due to an even further drop in numbers.) Were 24 in Nev's period, however, at LEAST 12 people
or about half had left after Garry Connolly took over. Prior to 7 Dec 2003,
at least 5 other members were set to leave with the complaints directed at Garry
Connolly, which made 50% of the congregation as having left.) As predicted
another 4 people left late 2004. Garry did not agree with
church board in late 2004. In “Closed up churches"
in this web site, one can see that Garry Connolly tried to raise a church himself
but after many months he still only had 5 people and his first church dropped
in numbers by 80%. A medical Doctor once
said "The best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour." In
light of that, it was predicted Agape would lose 80% of it's congregation and
the building would be given up with a house church in it's place. This happened in 2005. The designated
missionary money for Africa will also drop from $200,000 over the next 10 years
to $40,000. It needs to be said that it is a possibility that Garry could split
this church as well. People are likely to leave in as little as 2 months minimum
to 6 months maximum. Also, it's very important to remember the PEOPLE own the
church, not the pastor. It's all about the PEOPLE.
2. NUMBER OF CHAIRS: 42 - 50.
3. Type of person: single mums, pensioners,
4. Socio economic status: Low to Medium-Low.
5. Kids: 4.
6. Ages: Mostly families.
7. Men: 50%
**8. Offering: Not given but Pastor is not on a stipend. All Senior Pastors
here are paid an "honorarium" of $60 per week, "as it's a small
church".
9. Late arrivals: 1.
***10. Interesting info: Their former pastor for 7 years
until October 2003, Nev Geddes was originally a pastor at Christian Outreach
Toowoomba circa 1980's. Back then Trinity Revival Centre was in Union and Neil
Sts with Ps Keith Davie. ("Trinity Revival" church is NOT to be confused
with "Revival Fellowship" in Gregory St who really emphasise tongues
and salvation.) Keith "closed up shop" and Agape was formed in it's
place when 1/3 of the remaining congregation directly asked Nev Geddes to pastor
the work. Agape now goes under the "Obed Association" or "Obed Mission Full Gospel" covering from Caboolture
which few people realise were the 3rd biggest Charismatic movement to come out
of the 70's (COC, CLC and Obed.) They have some 45 churches throughout Australia
all under different names. Caboolture is a community of farms and have approximately
500 in their church of which David Frame (ex COC Twmba) is editor of their church
magazine and Assistant Director in Nursing for Caboolture / Redcliffe Hospitals.
Agape has a "Certificate of Corporation" with the "Office of
Fair Trading." "Agape" means "God's love." Garry Connolly
was a member of Trinity Revival Centre in the early days. Garry was then a pastor
of some small works in the charismatic side of the Apostolic church until coming
back into Agape circa 2002. He became Pastor 12 October 2003 where Nev Geddes
retired to the Sunshine Coast.
11. TIME THERE AND DATE OF VISIT: Was 18 people on 7 Dec 2003 10am-11.35am then
at least 4 of those left mid to late 2004. 12 Oct 2003. 9.30am- 12.40pm. 14
July 2001 10am-11.45am. Attended 12 times.
12. Length of service. 1hr 50m.
13. This & other service times: 10am, no night service.
** This "model of church" or the "way it is structured",
despite these small indiscretions, would have to be the best I have ever seen.
In the future I can see many more churches choosing Pastors and giving a small
stipend. But with other monies going toward 3rd world physical and spiritual
aid which is exactly what Jesus and especially the Apostle Paul did. Mar 10:21
"……give to the poor,…….." Luk 19:8 "…..I
give to the poor…. "
Here we can see Jesus gave to the local poor. Joh 13:29 For some of them thought, because Judas had the bag, that Jesus had said unto him, Buy those things that we have need of against the feast; or, that he should give something to the poor.
Here we can see Paul raised money for the distanced poor. Rom 15:26 For it hath pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem.
*So is this a case of "If you pay peanuts, you get monkeys"? Absolutely not, this is a worldly value, it's not Scripture. Is this a case of the Spirit of Babylon inside all Pastors like Connolly? Well, yes. This grandstanding is rather typical but behind it is the Spirit of Babylon which has no interest in helping the 3rd world in physical and spiritual aid. Unfortunately, when we pick a church, we look at it from what's in it for us. Style of worship etc... The last thing on our mind is "Where is the money actually going?" Maybe this is the first thing on God's mind, to help the local poor.
**A good rule of thumb is if the church is under 50 people
in the mornings, there tends to be no Sunday night service. Ps Keith Davie lives
on the Gold Coast with their daughter and son-in-law Mark and Leanne Turner.
Mark used to go throughout the pacific rim presenting "Heavens Gates and
Hells Flames" (not to be confused with the USA cult "Heavens Gates").
**14. Preacher: Ps Garry & Heather Connolly (Full time Panel beater at Col
Wilke.) Previous Pastor was Nev Geddes (worked full time contract cleaning,
retired 10/2003. Toowoomba country gospel evangelist and previous parishioner
as well as previous Pastor until 2003, Dan Vogler did Outback Ministry through
here. He was Associate Pastor but left when Garry took over.)
***At Agape, one has the
rare opportunity where one's tithe goes directly to third world aid. Money goes
into missions offering resulting since 1989 $230,000+ being given to "World
Outreach", a non- denominational missionary group.
**Garry Connolly certainly has an interesting background. His old church was
the Apostolic church in Harlaxton. This church ended up going up for sale early
2004. Some believe the demise of the church was due to him. It all began when
the Apostolics originally bought the building from the Salvation Army. They
had intended to sell the 3 blocks of land for $170,000 in March 2004. $30,-$40,000
intended to go back to the Apostolic church. This was before the MASSIVE DEBT
INCURRED on the property. The church had 40 - 50 people BEFORE Ps Garry Connolly
began pastoring at Harlaxton. He "disagreed" with the vision. He took
some of the members by starting another church in the Red Cross Hall (This had
5 people in it. See report "arcclos" or "Archive of Closed Churches"
file, then the entry "Lighthouse Christian Church NEW APOSTOLIC",
The gathering did not materialise into anything, however the Harlaxton work
dropped down from 40-50 to ten people and never recovered from then until the
impending sale of the building. An Apostolic Pastor said that this was common
knowledge. Two other parishioners confirmed and said "Yeah, this church
used to be full." One of the Apostolic Pastors said he had heard a few
things but that it was WITHOUT QUESTION that Ps Garry Connolly had not only
caused a division in the church but somehow things had disintegrated so badly
under his leadership that the church he left went from 40- 50 people attending
to only ten which brought the tithes very low. Others do not report Garry Connolly
is seriously doctrinally flawed but perhaps has an ability to unintentionally
put people off side.
*15. Feeling: In Nev’s time they were warm, friendly, keen to have new
people.
Are traditionally charismatic. Also, Garry Connolly, in 12/2003, named aloud
a parishioner and without a scriptural private admonishing first to the person,
gave them a complete dressing down in front of the whole church for a small
offence - apparently, for thinking that another previous Pastor was the Senior
Pastor instead of himself. Everyone gasped. This gave me the feeling he would
behave that way with weak members of the flock for any reason at all. Also,
I got the impression that he had acted like that before and that he felt comfortable
doing that. This act was rare to see, out of the thousands of services I have
been to, I've only having witnessed this type of act before in very strict,
legalistic churches. Although, time and time again I have personally noticed
that a clear majority of blue collar workers rarely make suitable Pastors and
professionally speaking, leadership of all churches should take notice of this.
Blue collar workers (anyone who works with their hands for a living, like a
carpenter, builder etc..), they are often overwhelmed by complicated people
problems which often requires great organisational and interpersonal skills.
(See: R for Realistic on Dr John Hollands theory of careers. Ask Human Resource
managers and/or Careers Advisers ). Conclusion: Blue collar workers need a strong
people orientated job, like school teaching, before they should be referred
into ministry. (See: Teaching is a strong “S for Social job in the RIASEC
code of Dr John Hollands theory of careers.)
16. Their belief : Pentecostal/ Charismatic.
17. Dress so as not to not stand out. Casually smart.
18. How to get there: Travel south to Uni along West St, Turn right into Drayton
Rd, cross 1st traffic light which is South St; first street on right is Warwick
St, 5th house block on right is the church.
37. Intention to build: The church rents and has the first option to buy. It
sits on a large parcel of land. Ps Connolly believes it is a bad idea to purchase.
Funds have been raised for years prior. Rent for neighbouring
house and church costs $200- $250/wk.
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