In this issue:
UIT Mailing List format change proposal
USA Shooting Coaches College
Re: mats
Re: mats
Re: mats / Shooting better with irons than scope
Re: Shooting better with irons than scope
Re: Shooting better with irons than scope
Poor eyesight problems
Re: need prone help
Air rifle scoring puzzle
Need kneeling help
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Well, I received 25 replies regarding the format change with the following results:
15 - don't fix what ain't broke / no way!
4 - don't care / maybe try this / what UIT list? <g>
6 - let's give it a try / hell yes!
So obviously we'll keep the current form alive and kicking and we'll let those who want to fly the roost become the guinea pigs and see how the other one works. I will leave it unmoderated for now since that is easiest on me, but will clamp down if inappropriate messages start appearing so no flames or business announcements except personal gear for sale.
Subscribe by mailing to [email protected]
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Can anyone confirm the dates for the USA Shooting Coaches College for me?
Michael Ray
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Re mats
I have one that is the same dimensions as the Thune and folds up the same shape but is actually thicker than the Thune and cost less than half the price (I think it was about 50GBP when I bought it). However, I can't remember the make. I got it from Ian Shirra-Gibb at Ten Ring Sport at Bisley. His e-mail address is [email protected]
Hope this helps.
Shirley McIntosh
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Michael:
On the advice of a world class prone shooter I bought a fold-up mat
through Champion's Choice. Works great on any hard surface and has a rubber
where you need it most.
Larry Richardson
[Editor - I seem to recall they had some fold-up ones but all they have now are roll-up models.]
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The Creedmor mat folds in thirds; it is 23"x 29." I would not describe it as "cushy." The padding under the front third of the mat in about 7/8 to 1" thick and I would use the word "firm."
I understand the difficulty that a shooter who shoots only "irons" has using a scope. But I think that it's well worth using occasionally - particularly for training. It's a little bit like using a Rika or Scat system without having to bother with a computer. Also, it was reported in an article in "Precision Shooting" last month that a shooter cleaned the any-sight phase of the prone matches at Camp Perry. He is 82.
--- Michael Barron
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Re: Shooting better with irons than scope
For a scope to have any real precision it needs to be parallax free at the distance you are shooting. I shoot 300m target in Sweden and i test shoot my reloads at 300m for groups. When i started to test the reloads i figured a scope would be much better so i fitted my 10x high quality Kahles hunting scope. I found that i shot better with a sling and iron sight than with rests and scope. The reason was that my scope is parallax free at 100m. When shooting at 300m you need to have your eye positioned exactly at the same position in relation to the objective (that is what parallax error is) otherwise you will have shot gun accuracy.Keeping the eye in exactly the same position each time is very hard especially when we have rifles capable of better than 5cm accuracy at 300m. I have managed to 5 shoot groups down to 3cm at 300m with an Anchutz diopter and a Sauer 200 STR 6.5x55 and handloaded ammo. That was shot with a rest. Unless you have the money to buy a good scope made for target shooting with adjustable parallax there is no point buying one. For 300m you need about 20x magnification to get the precision. A good target scope is probably better than iron sights but i have not tried them out. I will buy one soon and report back to the list.
Ingemar Lundgren
Sweden
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Regarding Satria's question about scope vs. iron sight accuracy, your point
about checking the intrinsic accuracy of the weapon is well taken. If the scope
is mounted on the barrel (rather than on the receiver) there might be some
issues of barrel harmonics, vibration and the like (all of which I am too
ignorant to discuss.) Groupings from a rest should answer this question. The
mental aspect of seeing all the movement in one's position is certainly a
factor. It takes some getting used to. Additionally, my experience from
talking with other shooters who use both scope and irons is that they feel they
are more aggressive shooters with a scope, firing more quickly than they do with
irons. Beyond that, I have found that my Anschutz 1413 is a completely
different rifle when I mount the scope. It is much heavier, so it balances
differently and recoils differently. Also, I use riser blocks with my irons, so
my axis of sight is different - and consequently my head position.
Given all these complications, why do I shoot with both? Because I can see the
target so much better with a scope. I am severely nearsighted, and having
reached a certain age, my eyes no longer accommodate the way they used to.
Particularly under low light conditions it is an advantage for me to use the
scope. So my advice to Satria is to check out the accuracy with and without the
scope, and then take some time to get used to the differences caused by mounting
the scope. Then choose the sighting system that works best under the rules and
conditions that apply to any particular situation. Good luck!
Tom
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Doug Clark said:
...>I am willing to bet that I would have also been in contention for the prize for the worst eyesight on the firing line: the prescription in my shooting eye was -9.50 diopters at that time (it's now -10.0). Poor eyesight should not be a handicap for a rifle shooter.
That is fine shooting for such a level of eyesight. I'm not much better but have a problem in centering the front sight in the rear sight. Many days I see what I think is the penumbra in the rear sight; I need to place my eye on the edge of the rear sight iris to see 'around' this shadow (or region of no image) to see the front sight and this penumbra seems to move during a string or disappear. Am I doing something wrong?
steve podleski
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Relative to Guido LAstra's request it seems to me the difficulty is in what the pictures do not show. The position as shown wouldn't keep one from getting good scores. Your mental plan, trigger work, mode of relaxation, sight picture and inner position etc might need work. Because of the exactitude of prone shooting it takes time and a lot of sweat...not to mention good ammo that matches your barrel.
Another thing to consider is ...do you train alone, put yourself in a competitive situation or even understand what makes a good position or mental program/focus.
My guess is that you're pretty much alone and seeking help such as Michael Ray's channel is an excellent source. A piece of advise is to try to be more specific on a difficulty when using this source.
Good Luck
Jon Wolters
[Editor - that's the whole point of this list. So "loners" like me and Guido can get "professional" help <g> since we don't have access to it otherwise.]
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A nice puzzle concerning the score of a shot on an
ISSF air rifle target.
What is the relation between the score (value of the
shot, V) and the distance between the centre of the
bullet hole and the centre of the target (D)?
Some parts of the puzzle provided by the ISSF:
- The diabolo has a 4.5 mm diameter, i.e. 2.25 mm
radius
- The '10' has a 0.5 mm diameter, i.e. 0.25 mm radius.
- All subsequent scoring rings have a distance of 2.5
mm.
- ISSF, 6.7.14 Value of Shots: All bullet holes are
scored according to the highest value of the target
scoring zone or ring that is touched by that bullet
hole.
- So if D=(2.25+0.25)=2.5 mm, V=10.000 [1]
- If D=(2.25+0.25+2.5)=5.0 mm, V=9.000 [2]
- The relationship must be of the form:
V=a-b*D (D in mm) [3]
- For the 'normal' scoring this turns to
V=trunc(a-b*D), and for the finale score you have to
trunc at 0.1.
- Since V drops by 1 for each 2.5 mm increment of D, b
equals (1/2.5).
- Substituting [1] or [2] into [3] yields a=11.0
- Thus, [3] becomes: V=11.0-(1/2.5)*D [5]
Now, the problem is: what score do you get for a
perfect shot, i.e. one with D=0? A score of 11.0.
So where's the flaw...?
Jeroen Hogema
The Netherlands
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I thank you for your
commments about my prone position, I wait for others
to write about it. Now Iwould like to send you my
knelling position (it is attached to this document,
perhaps the worstI have and I intend to improve this
year.
Thanks,
Guido Lastra.
[Editor - check out http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/1190/UIT_List_Stuff/guido.htm
I would close up your R leg some so it's closer to 45 degrees to line of fire so you aren't twisting your torso so much and shooting out of your position rather than across it. Make sure L arm is straight. Make sure R foot is straight up and down or with the toe pointed slightly to the rear.]
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End of UIT Mailing List #9
Michael Ray - DBA & Systems Engineer
Rose-Hulman Inst. of Tech. Rifle Coach
UIT Shooting Page -
http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/1190/index.htm
