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In this issue:
Pilkguns Tour of Germany, October 2001
Re: Tanner rifle for sale
Re: Using sight blocks
Re: Using sight blocks / Herniated disc
Re: Zero changes between positions
How to adjust free rifle?
Re: Scoring statistics
FWB P70 velocity
FWB 602 & clothes for sale
Looking for coaching job
Cheap training ammo
Eley ammo info
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Here is an incredible trip to Germany sponsored by Pilkington Competition Equipment. You'll get to shoot with several clubs and on the Olympic ranges in Munich, tour several manufacturers and have an awesome time just seeing the sights. Find out more at
http://www.pilkguns.com/ptg01it.htm
Deposit is $250/person and should be turned in ASAP along with the registration form on the site. Total cost should be about $1899 or $2199/person, depending upon whether or not a new Walther P22 pistol is included. Airfare to Atlanta for the departure may be included for little or no extra hopefully.
There may be a limit placed on the number of participants if too many sign up, so I'd contact Scott Pilkington soon for more details and to get your deposit in. Phone: 931-924-3400 email: [email protected]
I will definitely be going. Hope to see some of you there.
Michael Ray
Editor
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Re: Tanner rifle
Hello this is Dirk Cuypers from Belgium and like to say to
Mr. Manuel Rodero II do not sell this weapon. I have one too and know the value of it.
If we would live closer together I really would like to meet, and discuss and change experiences. I am still looking to buy some extra material like extra hook and diopter for the 3 positions. You can contact me if you like
greetings
E-Mail : [email protected]
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Hello this is Dirk Cuypers from Belgium again . Here a reaction to
Mr. Miguel Nieva about the sighting heights. I have the sighting heights from centa and they are marvelous because you can move the heights also to the side so it helps with the position of the head. You can correct here the heights and the up right position of the head. If any body like to comment this , I love to hear from it
greetings
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> [Editor - Have you actually shown your doctor what you do? Unless you have
> a high position or odd loading routine, your back shouldn't be under much
> stress in prone. However, they must have some reason for their decision so
> I would follow orders. You certainly don't want to injure your back
> further.]
I agree with you Michael - just getting in and out of the prone position
could cause harm to his back. people I know have taken up to 3 years before
their back is totally healed. I'd suggest Ralph do a bunch of benchrest
shooting for awhile!
> I've bought a FWB P70 and I'm trying to use some sighting heights, that
> elevate the sighting line in 10 mm.
> The question is that I'm not used to it and I feel a little "strange"
> because my neck stays more straight.
> What you recommend ? A lower position instead of a worst neck position or
> a higher one but with a worst balance sensation?
The shooter should be aware that the maximum distance between the bore and
the front aperture is 40 mm. Two sets of riser blocks will result in an
illegal distance on most rifles.
In my personal opinion, being a taller, slim shooter with a fairly long
neck, having your head really upright is more of a liability than an asset.
putting the head down and forward seems to create a tension in the neck and
back which stabilizes the standing position.
One set of riser blocks is the maximum I feel should be used.
Wayne Sorensen
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I have to vote with Michael on changing the sights between positions. There are many reasons, both mechanical and physiological, that will cause the zero to change.
While one may be able to set up a prone rifle to be exactly vertical and still get the sight directly in front of the eye without tipping the head left or right, I have never seen anyone that can do this in the standing or kneeling position. The rifle must be canted in order to maintain the head in an erect position. As most of us know, an erect head is required in order to optimize balance. Anyone who doubts this should try walking around for an hour with their head tilted to the side.
One other note: I may have forgotten, but I do not recall every hearing of anyone speak of a "spot weld" when referring to an international free rifle. I have only heard it discussed and coached when shooting high power (service) rifle, where it is definitely necessary. In that environment, the rifle is not adjustable and the shooter must conform to its dimensions, not the other way around. My personal preference (M-14 or M1A) is to place the knuckle of my thumb in the corner of my mouth when shooting sitting and prone. There is a lump of adhesive that tends to build up on the stock where my thumb rests, thus ensuring that the whole system is consistent each time I established the position. In the spirit of full disclosure, It should be noted that making any external modification to a service rifle is not legal and causes the rifle to be disqualified as a service rifle under AR930, or the current CMP equivalent and considered to be a match rifle under NRA High Power Rules.
I mention this, because the concept of putting the eye behind the sight as opposed to putting the sight in front of the eye, sounds a lot like fitting the shooter to the rifle instead of fitting the rifle to the shooter.
Lt. Stephen B. Flatt, USNR
U. S. Naval Reserve Rifle Team
[email protected]
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Does anyone know of a written system for adjusting a free rifle for it to
fit correctly in the prone position? What I am looking for is a
systematic way of adjusting a prone stock along the lines of what Captain
Clark wrote on cheek piece adjustment in Vol. 3 # 37 .
A few years ago when i asked H,Q. Moody about adjusting a Free
rifle. He said that it took him six months to a year to correctly adjust
one for himself. If it takes him that long, then how am I, someone who
does not know what is correct going to do it. One of the big things I
liked about Clarks system was the way he proved it works ie. shooting
with the cheek piece adjusted and without the rear sight.
Kazan Mohrs
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Ross Mason wrote:
> .. Interestingly, I have been doing some work with working out the
> patterns and scatter of fullbore target shooting (...) If one plots
> the distance from the centre the shot hits (in effect what decimal
> scoring is) versus frequency, you suddenly discover that the
> greatest number hit at a distance from the centre.
This is exactly what you would expect from a statistical point of
view. When assuming that the horizontal and vertical deviation
follow a normal distribution with means 0 and equal standard
deviations, you can derive a probabilty density function that shows
exatcly the pattern that you found in practice. (not bad, that
sometimes there is a correspondence between theory and
practice...)
Using such distributions, you can e.g. calculate how your score
distribution 'should' typically look, given a certain mean score.
I put some more details at:
http://home-2.worldonline.nl/~jhogema/ballist.htm
This was inspired by Georg Fischer's Shooting Statistics pages, see
http://www.wwwfg.de/shooting/shooting_area/home.htm (in German).
Jeroen Hogema
The Netherlands
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Does anybody could inform of the way to increase or decrease the velocity of
the pellet in a Feinwerkbau P70?
With 200 bar the rifle only gives about 140 shots.
If anybody has the schema of the gun please inform me.
Best regards
Miguel Neiva
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Hi, I have the following items for sale:
Feinwerkbau 602 Air Rifle: Right Hand, Like New In Box with unsigned warranty
card. This gun was used for one season of collegiate shooting. It has a dry
fire mechanism and includes sights. $1000
[email protected]
Marksman House ISU Shooting Jacket and Pants: These are Right Handed and
are in good condition, used but not anywhere near used up. Leather outside,
canvas inside, red and blue. Jacket is about a size 41 (remember there is
adjustment in button placement and the hems can be tailored). Pants are
about 32 waist (there are a couple of fastners and they could be moved for a
range of about 30 to 35) and length of about 30. I wear a about a 33 length
pant and these fit me fine. I had them shortened a bit to fit over my
boots. This hem could be let out to make them longer... They have one
zipper on the front of the left leg and one zipper on the back of the right
leg. Both for $225
[email protected]
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Could I ask you to help me found a job in Olympic shooting area.
I'm Olympic coach from Australia
formerly National coach from Russia.
[email protected]
[email protected]
All best
Anatoli Aktov
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Cheap training ammo
It seems that there are many people out there looking for cheap training ammo. May I suggest people search out Lapua's Rifle Club Standard which is their lowest grade. Shooters in the US have been put off this ammunition because it comes loose 500 to a ring-pull can! It should be cheap - I pay approx $35.50 per M here in Europe.
I have shot this ammunition in practice for the last two years and do not intend to look elsewhere. Maybe I have been lucky but French friends confirm my experience. The stuff is excellent indoors at 25 yds - it is excellent at 100 yds! I have not test-fired this ammo from machine rest but shooting it prone with a scope from the shoulder it will stay inside the British 10-ring and that of the US 100 yd reduced from 300 m. In good conditions, with a scope, I have put 8-9 shots in the x-ring at 100 yds on our target. I know people who shoot the stuff in matches! I don't have the courage of my convictions but I'll keep on shooting it in practice.
Carl Joos stocked it in the US but he told me no one would buy it so he was discontinuing it. I know the stuff is still available in the US because a friend found some just recently, so find some and try it and report back. Am I wrong?
Richard Danik
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[Editor - I pulled this from email I received and messages posted to a BBS by Bart Eaton of Zanders, the US importer of Eley so I thought I'd share FYI.]
Tenex and Match Extra Plus are Tenex
Equipment produced. Their lots start with W for Tenex M for MXP. The second
character is the machine it was produced on; X for X machine etc. There are
4 Tenex machine W, X, Y, Z. The third character is the year designation D is
1999, E is 2000, F is 2001. No 2001 is in the country yet. The numbers are
the sequential lots from that configuration. All other product is built on
completely different machines. The only real designation is the third letter
which indicates the year of manufacture. Please try the newer product and I
think you will be more than impressed. The MXP is certainly the most for the
money today.
Temperature does affect rimfire ammo. Eley has just announced two new Biathalon products to address extremely cold temperatures. These products are ordered with delivery in about 4-6 weeks. They are Biathalon Match and Biathalon Standard. They are not Tenex based, so I doubt thay are good enough for Bench work but maybe in extremely cold weather. The cold weather problem with some products stems from using a single based powder. Most rimfire is loaded with a single base powder. I don't fully understand multiple mixture based powder, but I know this is a way to address the problem. Hot weather ruins quality rimfire. Over about 110-120 degrees and you just made Tenex into Standard or worse. Keep ammo in conditions you are comfortable and it will be. By the way, would you be comfortable in your trunk on a warm day? Hope this helps a little.
We have had a good deal of success using test velocity as a starting point in the selection of subsequent lots. Test velocity off the same loading machine, using the same components, in the same test rifles produces similar barrel vibration characteristics. Not to say you don't have to shoot some, but at least you have a better place to start. Remember the second letter of the Eley lot number is the machine the ammo was built on. Current productionammo continues to test as well as any ammo Eley has ever produced.
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End of UIT Mailing List #12
Michael Ray - DBA & Systems Engineer
Rose-Hulman Inst. of Tech. Rifle Coach
UIT Shooting Page - http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/1190/index.htm
