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Nelson M.

10/24/2000
01:59:55
Subject: Anonymous Re-mailing

Message:
How can I hide my IP address from going out on my e-mail client, preferrably without using a remailer?


RagDoll

10/24/2000
02:53:18
RE: Anonymous Re-mailing

Message:
You need to use an open SMTP relay which won't forward your ISP/IP details. Not as easy to find as it sounds, although there are thousands of relays available.

If you go to the ORBS database at http://www.orbs.org/database.html you'll see several large lists of open relays - download the first few hundred IP addresses from the still open at 30 day+ list. Until the relay checker at http://tools.rosinstrument.com/cgi-bin/fp.pl? is working again (which allows you to automatically batch-test for working relays) you'll need to check each one manually by entering it as the outgoing mail server in your e-mail client and sending yourself a message.

Many won't work and of those that do, many will still pass your real ISP and IP address details (check in the header information of the incoming message), but every now and again you'll find a relay which works anonymously.

A final thing to be aware of though, if you've got your name/e-mail address or any other give-away information as your computer's name in your Windows setup, this can be shown in the message ID. Name your computer just 'localhost' and use the information at http://grc.com to remove any unneccessary bindings in your setup.

Hope this helps, but it is time consuming to find truly anonymous relays.


Nelson M.

10/24/2000
21:51:41
RE: Anonymous Re-mailing

Message:
Anything easier?


RagDoll

10/25/2000
02:30:01
RE: Anonymous Re-mailing

Message:
Just use one of the web-based e-mail anonymizer services then.


Nelson M.

10/25/2000
20:00:55
RE: Anonymous Re-mailing

Message:
Just thought maybe there was a software I could download.


Leech it all

10/25/2000
21:24:56
Easier way

Message:
No need to DL anything, it's already on your HD :)

Get Multiproxy running
Open Outlook Express and set up a hotmail account
Send yourself a test message to another of your email addresses
Look at the header info in the received message
BINGO ! Thanks, Microsoft.


Haggas

10/26/2000
16:28:01
RE: Anonymous Re-mailing

Message:
It's my understanding that when an e-mail client like Outlook Express is used to log into a SMTP (outgoing) mail server, your IP is automatically appended to the e-mail header. Each time the e-mail is handed off to another server, on the way to its destination, that server's IP is also appended.

The easiest way to send and recieve e-mail with relative anonymity is through one of the free Web page based e-mail accounts. You can set up the account without giving your real name and information, and you access the Web page anonymously with MP and an anonymous proxy server. There is no direct way for the recipient to find out who sent the e-mail.

Of course your IP is logged by the anonymous proxy server. But it would probably take a lot of legal effort to get the e-mail service provider to go back and try to trace the proxies IP, and then do the same thing with the proxy to get your IP.



Leech it all

10/26/2000
22:48:25
RE: Anonymous Re-mailing

Message:
Haggas: you're absolutely correct. The Hotmail plugin for Outlook Express though is http-based and therefore with Multiproxy running it appends the IP of the proxy in the mail header.

Setting up an account with these web-based email providers needs some caution though as some, including Hotmail, use SSL.

What makes me think is you mentioning "Of course your IP is logged by the anonymous proxy server." Dumb question: Where is all the anonymity we're seeking if the *anonymous* proxies log the requests...?



Ehren

10/26/2000
23:54:18
RE: Anonymous Re-mailing

Message:
There is a program you can download that enables you to send anon emails. No abuse message at the top or anything!!

http://ehrenf.zfee.com


Anonymous

10/27/2000
01:16:02
Ehren ---> Spyware spammer

Message:
Ehren, you've posted that in other threads. Readers, beware: this zfee thing tells you 20 times on their page how anonymous you are and how you can make money on top of it.

Whoever wants to believe this, just follow Ehren's link.


frogggg

10/27/2000
13:17:06
RE: Anonymous Re-mailing

Message:
ref: leech it all

& what if you can't get MP & IE 5.5 to desist from revealing your IP ?
have tried all talked about in this forum (no JAVA, cookies etc: etc:
the only thing working at the moment is a CGI anon cotse proxy.


Leech it all

10/27/2000
15:17:57
Attn.: frogggg

Message:
I honestly don't know; IE 5.5 and the probs it causes has been discussed broadly on this fine board. I cannot contribute to that, as I read some posts in the NGs about IE 5.5 and than decided NOT to upgrade from IE 5.01

Sorry, that doesn't answer your question. Ever considered downgrading to IE 5.0x? From what I read, it's possible.


Nelson M.

10/27/2000
21:37:33
RE: Anonymous Re-mailing

Message:
Currently running OE in IE 5.5. Header ALWAYS reveals current IP. Only workaround I know is to re-mail via Hotmail or other web-mailer. It works, but is tiresome. So far the best solution sounds like the SMTP relay. Any other suggestions?

PS: I use 5.5, all patches, Java off. I detect no IP leaks for several weeks now.










Leech it all

10/27/2000
22:51:39
RE: Anonymous Re-mailing

Message:
Nelson: Well, that indicates that IE 5.5 is the probem. I'm using the Browser and the OLX version that came with Win2K.

Here is the header of a mail sent with OLX:

Return-Path: <rk1srg0831301@hotmail.com>
X-Flags: 0000
Delivered-To: ******* delivery to ***************
Received: (qmail 15015 invoked by uid 0); 27 Oct 2000 05:57:57 -0000
Received: from oe13.pav1.hotmail.com (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.30.117)
by ********* with SMTP; 27 Oct 2000 05:57:57 -0000
Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC;
Thu, 26 Oct 2000 22:57:56 -0700
X-Originating-IP: [216.126.197.52]
From: "Leech it All" <rk1srg0831301@hotmail.com>
To: <*********>
Subject: FT
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 07:57:31 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
Message-ID: <OE13APDVXLuSbh29cM30000034f@hotmail.com>
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Oct 2000 05:57:56.0599 (UTC) FILETIME=[DA673070:01C03FDA]
X-UIDL: 40592ff312df7f8f8bf4e201e8799e5a


216.126.197.52 is somewhere near Salt Lake City, and I'm sitting here comfortably at home in Italy, so I can't complain about this combination Multiproxy/OLX.


Thanks for the hint, I certainly won't upgrade to IE 5.5


Nelson M.

10/28/2000
02:59:34
RE: Anonymous Re-mailing

Message:
You know something, I've been a fool! You are running IE 5.5 also, if your OLX is 5.5 so is your IE, that's what came with W2K. (MS marries OLX and IE together, I don't think you can run seperate versions.) I realized I hadn't turned off Java when I was running that mail out of OLX, I took it for granted I still would be. I sent some mail and looked for IP's in the return, nothing! I'm going to check this out, but dbl-chk your own IE version before jumping to conclusions! (Hey, anybody can make a mistake!) Ciao! (I wouldn't have caught it w/o you, thx!)

(Later on this same channel) Hey, that's right, disabiling Java does the trick! Thanks Mr. Leech, would not have realized this w/o you!!!


Leech it all

10/28/2000
03:47:04
All right!

Message:
Well, I just went to
http://www.rental-web.com/~azuma/cgi-bin/env.cgi AGAIN, and there it says "HTTP_USER_AGENT Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.01; Windows NT 5.0)", and in Help|About Internet Explorer it says "Version: 5.00.3103.1000". That's the one which came with Win2K (US-english version) plus some, but not all updates. As I don't have the print preview feature of IE 5.5, I guess my version is 5.01

Re the Java thing, I like its functionality and wouldn't want to miss it; so I use Proxomitron and have a special filter that disables Java applets. Which does the trick as well on the test page mentioned above. I found out about this by sifting through messages on this fine board.

Together, Nelson, we are brilliant :) And anonymous :)



Nelson M.

10/28/2000
14:08:11
RE: Anonymous Re-mailing

Message:
Mr. Leech:

That certainly is the case. Now I'm concerned because I don't find my IP in any headers at all, no matter what I configure. Sounds stupid huh?

Well I must be doing something wrong. First of all Rental-Web doesn't show anything, but then how are you able to read it? Is it Korean or Japanese? And what do you use for a translator?

Second, I've never been able to get Proxomitron to work. No matter what I do. Is there a trick to chaining it? The only time I ever got anything out of it my IP was all over the place!
Personally I'd rather use Java myself, but it doesn't seem like I can disable applets without dissabling all of it. Perhaps 5.5 is the problem.


Leech it all

10/28/2000
15:32:07
Proxomitron & Multiproxy

Message:
Mister Nelson M., Sir,

To be honest I don't care much about the Japanese part of the rental web site. I don't translate it.

I have IE set at 127.0.0.1:8080 and so is Proxomitron. Multiproxy is at port 8088. Proxomitron uses Multiproxy as, what it calls, "remote proxy". As I don't speak html, it took me a *very* long time to figure out what the meaning of all those filters is, Web page filters, in- and outgoing header filters and whatnot filters. If one is a html/java illiterate, like I am, it's quite hard to understand. Unfortunately the helpfile is for v. 3 and the version with additional functionality is # 4 beta.

I use Proxomitron almost exclusively to filter out ads. And (either here or on the Proxomitron Website) I found a filter that stops Java applets. In Proxomitron, open Web page filters, make a new one, call it Disable Java Applets. In the "Search and Replace" box, put (without quotes) "<applet*</applet>", and in the "Replacement Text" box, put "<font size=1 color=red>[ Java Applet Disabled ]</font>" Save it, reload the config and go to rental web. No more Java applet reading your IP in that nasty upper left box of the page :)

You, Nelson, made me aware that OLX also uses Java applets to send the IP to hotmail, and I want to thank you for that. If you mail me I can send you some screenshots that explain the facts better.



Dennis

10/28/2000
21:50:22
RE: Anonymous Re-mailing

Message:
Ref: Leech

>What makes me think is you mentioning "Of course your IP is logged by the anonymous proxy
>server." Dumb question: Where is all the anonymity we're seeking if the *anonymous* proxies
>log the requests...?

That depends upon how much anonymity you want. As has been mentioned here before, servers log requests, and a court order can get those logs handed over. People who are =really= paranoid about this take pains to use an anonymous proxy in another country -- preferably one without close diplomatic ties to thiers.

The question is how much trouble anyone would be willing to go through to find out who you really are. The answer to that depends upon what you are doing. If you are plotting to assasinate a political leader, steal millions of dollars, or distribute child pornography, people will probably be willing to go through a =lot= of trouble to track you down. Other than that, you have to decide for yourself what the risks are.


Leech it all

10/29/2000
01:07:58
RE: Anonymous Re-mailing

Message:
Mr. Dennis:

Thanks for your contribution to this important matter; I'm not much worried because I am a citizen and resident of a "foreign country". It wouldn't pay off to track me down, as I'm neither doing nor planning the things you mention. But I found out that US authorities don't give a shit if they have jurisdiction somewhere or not. Right or wrong, it's your country...


Director

10/29/2000
03:58:19
RE: Anonymous Re-mailing

Message:
Most people who want anonymity are not involved in unlawful activity but merely wish to express opinions without harassment, a constitutional right in the U.S. While a judge may issue a search warrent in the U.S. in regard to a criminal matter if there is probable cause for one, in civil matters it is quite different. Sometimes a party will file a frivolous civil lawsuit(let's say you critisised a certain product) so that they can get your identity by subpoena in pre-trial discovery. Now, this can cause you a great deal of expense especially when dealing with corporations with unlimited funds. However, if you're broke don't worry about it, you can always file a counterclaim against them for harassment and violation of civil rights(1st Amendment) if they act in concert with a gov't entity. While this scenario is improbable, it's better to do everything in your power to remain anonymous.


frogggg

10/29/2000
13:39:12
RE: Anonymous Re-mailing

Message:
actually I don't do any of the above violating :) or ;-(
just feel strongly about my privacy esp: within the confines of my house. So long as I do not cause consternation to others, I wish others to do like wise for me.


Nelson M.

10/31/2000
21:39:44
RE: Anonymous Re-mailing

Message:
Seems to me most folks don't care about their privacy. But they don't understand two things. One is how easy it is for someone to misuse any of their private info. The other is they don't realize how vunerable they are to attack, no matter how low the risk. If they did, they'd care. Instead they think the rest of us are parnoid and don't want to be 'labeled' that way. Too bad. If more people felt like we did, business and government would be alot less inclined to pull some of the stuff they do.


MindWaste

11/02/2000
08:44:45
RE: Anonymous Re-mailing

Message:
Ok I have a question for RagDoll from way up at the begining.. You were talking about Changing your windows set up of you computers name. My question is not about remailing but about cookies. I thought it was on the same line though sence it had to do with the Comps name.

Ok So My question is what all can a website see when they are retriving a cookie.. Can they look at all of your cookies and Temp Downloaded Internet Files.. Or Is It More Like They ask your computer if you have a cookie and you send it if you have one with matching address? And to get back to how this relates Can they see your systems name --(EX. <system's Name>@google[1].txt , this being the name of the cookie on my system)-- and If I change it to LocalHost how will that change anything? I Might be way off base, but If Anyone Can Help And They Know What Im Talkin About.. Thanks..

Also You Mentioned http://grc.com What excactly on that site were you talking about??

Ok LatErZ

From MindWaste AKA Traviss


Nelson M.

11/02/2000
20:26:05
RE: Anonymous Re-mailing

Message:
Finally decided to block scripts in IE 5.5 (not just Java). Appears to work pretty well but displays browser info, which I doubt is critical.

Funny thing is that NO ORIGINAL IP's are shown in this config when running OLX. Is this the way IE works or is it really just unreliable? Thoughts?


Nelson M.

11/04/2000
13:57:12
RE: Anonymous Re-mailing

Message:
Have tested same again today as above and today 5.5 reports original IP's in OLX. Conclusion: 5.5 is unreliable. Thank you.


Servus

11/04/2000
14:42:47
RE: Anonymous Re-mailing

Message:
Hallo


Leech it all

11/04/2000
21:38:13
RE: Anonymous Re-mailing

Message:
Nelson M.: Well, I was somewhat confused by your posting of 11/2, but on 10/27 I said already that I'm not going to upgrade to v. 5.5. Still, it might work together with Proxomitron's "Disable Java Scripts" Filter. As it does on my box.

OT: MS goes spyware: When installing Whistler build 2276, it calls home even before you finished setting it up...

Servus: geh scheißen.




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