JCM THE MUSEUM LIBRARY
"Mail art taught me to express and try new things." - Jenny Soup

Ruud Janssen with Jenny Soup

TAM Mail-Interview Project

Continued


Reply on 3-1-1996

JS: Well, I'm the third attitude! I tend to pick and choose what I keep and what I pass on. I used to keep literally everything, but as space ran out and box after box got full, I began to reconsider keeping everything.

Whenever I receive two of the same things I will pass on one to someone else. If I receive an abundance from one person, I tend to pass on a few pieces. But mostly I will keep what I receive - especially when I see that a lot of time & energy has been put into making it. Often times I will receive "trash" in the mail, seems people will just rip up a piece of paper or what not, put it in an envelope and pass it on as "mail art". I often don't keep it and frankly, I don't pass it on either. I am not trying to be "elitist" by saying that, because I'm not one to judge what is or is not mail art. I just tend to save the items I receive that I see time and effort in.

I have great respect for those who save and archive the mail art they receive. You, Gaglione, John Held Jr., and others, are providing a great service to all of us by documenting and preserving such a unique communication and genre.

RJ: Well, I'm flattered by such comment. I know that there are many more mail artists that archive a lot of what they receive, and the biggest archive is without doubt that of Guy Bleus in Belgium. Is documenting really that important? Do you document all your art activities (for instance, do you keep a list of all the mail you send out)?

Reply on 21-2-1996

JS: Forgive my initial exclusion in not listing one of the greatest Archivists, Guy Bleus. Where was my mind?

Your question "Is documentation really that important?" brings up a variety of emotions and thoughts. I learned many years ago in Art School, from various sources the phrase...."Documentation is everything". whether a performance, a painting or an impact of a piece of work. And this can be advantageous for the Artist in many circumstances.

And for historical value, documentation is a great aid in preserving a "happening" or a piece or body of work.

But now, 10 years after I was told "Documentation is everything", I don't believe it. On the other hand of the documentation coin, I see it as a great restraint. Such importance is placed on the past, on what has already happened.

It seems ironic to me, that mail art, such an ephemeral, temporary art form, always in transition and a state of flux, is held in boxes, and files, and forced into an archival existence.

When I first started out in mail art, I did document a great deal of what I received and what I sent out. I would photograph decorated envelopes I made, and keep folders full of xeroxed artworks I mailed out. After awhile, I questioned why I was doing all this documenting. Why was I saving the remnants and shadows of my sendings? I took on a different view, and lived in the sending and receiving, not the delicate preservation. When its sent, it's gone. Though I do have a great deal of trouble throwing things away, to this day. Never thrown out a letter. It all goes into boxes, largely marked....MAIL, and that's it. I enjoy the now, and not in reviewing and filing what's in the boxes. So.... why do I hang on to the box? Who knows, maybe one day soon, I will build a giant catapult and send each box off into space, one by one, with a big bang! Or bury each box deep in the ground, to be discovered by archaeologists hundreds of years from now. And whatever I choose to do with these boxes of mail, the bigger question is, "Will I document the act of what I do with them?"

RJ: Well, at least you should invite some other mail artists for such an occasion.....! There is another side to documentation of course. The people who don't know anything about mail art normally want to know about what has been going on and what it is all about. The only sources nowadays are the mail artists themselves and (if they keep any) their archives.

The books about mail art mostly are written by mail artists, and non-participants just don't seem to understand what mail art is all about. How would you reply to a person that asks about your "mail art" when you know he/she doesn't know what it is about?

Reply on 16-3-1996

JS: I agree with your point about the documentation - that's why I mentioned that it does have historical value. Much of history is based upon such preserved remnants of an era, or genre of subculture. Of course the other side of that coin is that what "we" base history on, is a very small portion of the overall scene. Historically - the archives that are being kept and written about and looked at, are only a percentage of the overall picture. Usually "history" comes out very one sided & biased. Are the "big names" in mail art, that every one notes, and writes about, are they giving an accurate account of the mail art scene, entirely? I don't know, I'm just throwing out the question. And do people within the scene include or exclude certain people at a whim, when they choose?

From my experiences and observations, I notice the 'cliques' in mail art, the closed circles that are very difficult to enter. I wonder if this will affect the historical representation of mail art. Mail art hasn't truely hit the mainstream of society, so few people do know what it's about.The popularity of rubber stamps & art made from them did open up a lot of people into the mail art realm, that weren't aware of it before. Many of my friends over the years have admired the mail I receive and ask about it. They see the decorated envelopes, rubberstamp art, xeroxed stuff inside or whatever, and they are very intrigued. They think it's wonderful & ask what it is all about. The easiest response is that its art that gets about through the mail. Big art, small art, xeroxed, painted, written, anything goes. And like a chain letter, once you've sent out a few pieces your name and address are picked up and the network process kicks in. You'll always have someone to send things to, and you'll always be receiving something.

I would be so interested in the observations of non-mail-art participants. I would almost be more interested in reading that, than a book written by a mail artist. Hmmmm. A good theme for a mail art show?

RJ: This is probably an essential point, this last remark.Mail art is still for the people that participate in the network. Others who get to see it, haven't gone through the process of networking, and only see the piece of mail as a final result. Exhibiting mail art in a museum or a gallery is therefore always quite difficult. And maybe it isn't even necessary at all. Maybe your theme for a mail art show is interesting. Ask someone in your surroundings to observe the mail artist for a specific time, and make a report........Hmmmm. Actually, I kind of stopped with doing those 'traditional' mail art shows, where you ask the 'network' to send in their works to a specific theme. How about you?

Reply on 13-4-1996

JS: I honestly do about 3 to 4 Mail Art shows per year. For a long time I did every show I heard about, and for awhile it was fun and interesting. I like the general idea of rounding up a variety of perspectives on a singular subject, but I feel the mail art show falls short of what it's potential could be.

For example, a call comes through the mail for works on the theme of... Whatever. Maybe it's a trendy theme, such as a certain war that exists, and everyone is really against this war and the violence, and all the work submitted reflects their views on this. All this artwork is sent to one person, who types up the contributors names on a list, puts together a nice booklet and sends them back to those who sent in the work. This seems like a very small, closed circle. Even if the work is shown in a gallery or library or other venue, people come in and look at the work, agree or disagree with the issues set forth, and then they go home. If we can all get together on some level to express our ideas, as in this example, for instance being against a certain war, then let us use all this energy to make a change, make situations better.Use our voices in channels that can cause an affect on a given situation.

I am not implying, in any way, that Art has no power, in fact it can be a very powerful tool and medium to affect the masses. But it must be directed to do so, and done efficiently. An incestuous mail art show is not using all that creative power efficiently. If a mail art show was arranged on the subject of war or child abuse or even trees, instead of sending all the work to just one mail artist, have everyone send something to a figure in a position to do something about it. Send all the tree mail art, and why we are sending it, to the person or people in charge of our national parks or government officials who can pass stricter environmental laws.If the issue is war then send all the works to the government officials initiating and perpetuating the war. Use this marvelous creative energy to DO SOMETHING, not just fatten ourselves in the glutenous files of mail art and show documentations. I see all of us falling short of what we are capable of doing, of what can be done along the same lines of the mail art show, but it really meaning something.

To further this point, if I was involved (involuntarily) in the war around Bosnia and I heard of someone putting together a mail art show about the war, and thought of all the money and energy and time to mail it all out, collect, document, etc., and all the energy of those sending work to someone somewhere in another country most likely, I would be so utterly offended. I would think and say to myself, "So what?My family was just killed by gunfire, what do I care of artwork in a file, and names of contributors on a list. I could die tomorrow because of this war." Instead of mailing a xeroxed art piece to another mail artist, I write letters to government officials.

In the large scheme of things, what is the big deal of a mail art show? I believe the mail art show and the mail art scene need to evolve. They need to evolve for many reasons, to continue their existence, to create importance, and to keep up with evolving mail artists.

RJ: How did YOU evolve through mail art? What did mail art teach you when you look back at almost ten years of being a mail artist?

Reply on 28-5-1996

JS: When you learn and experience a great deal, you automatically evolve (or devolve). I learned a great deal from mail art itself, as well as individual people in the network.Mail art was such an unusual medium at the time, for me. I had always been a "letter-writer" by nature, I do a lot of writing, poetry, stories, journals, etc. But the "mail" became an incredible outlet once I discovered mail art, not just a pen-pal thing anymore. I learned by observance, and experimentation that "anything goes!". It was scary, yet releasing feeling. I began to "push the envelope" pardon the pun), and this testing of the boundaries naturally reflected into my Artwork, my paintings and collages. Mail art taught me to express and try new things, not to be scared if they didn't work out completely, that the journey and the action, the "performance", so to speak, was the real essence. There was no real success or failure, it was not a black and white world.At the time it was all gray, and all open for discovery and exploration. I danced in the realms of Dada and Fluxus, began to appreciate Performance Art, and pretty much the Art of Life!

I am so thankful for what I have experienced through mail art.The people I met and exchanged with. The personal aspect I experience in mail art, is the real appeal for me. The artwork received and exchanged is wonderful, but for me it is the people and their lives that I grow fond of, that I wish to stay in touch with, with or without the realm of mail art.There was a real transition through the years for me. At first I was absorbed by the Artwork, what I received, what I sent out, and then over the years it became the people. The lives of those I exchange work and letters with, held so much more importance than the work. In that holds the key to how I have evolved in mail art.

RJ: Well maybe this is a nice moment to end the interview, or is there something I forgot to ask you?

Reply on 27-6-1996

(together with Jenny Soup's answer she sent me a copy of her newest "In remembrance" #15.

JS: I would like to say how very much I have enjoyed doing this interview with you. What a tremendous project. In looking back, it has almost taken a year to complete! Your questions set a lot of thoughts into motion, about mail art and life! I had a great time thinking about and answering your questions.I hope your readers enjoy our correspondence, too. Thanks Ruud.

RJ: Thank you too for this interview Jenny!


Reproduced with the permission of
TAM
Further reproduction without the written consent of
Ruud Janssen and the Artist is prohibited.

Mail-artist: Jenny Soup, P.O.Box 1168-584, Studio City, CA 91604, USA

Interviewer: Ruud Janssen - TAM, P.O.Box 1055, 4801 BB Breda, NETHERLANDS

E-mail Ruud Janssen

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