As a first-time contributor to this site, I need to express my thanks to the site owners for putting enabling such a valuable and open discussion.

My response is to the December 17, 2003, post from a parent recalling a spanking position used by his/her mother described as "hug spanking". It sounds intereesting because the body contact with the mother reasures the child of the parent's love. it would certainly be applicable for a younger child (pre-puberty) or a daughter. Would other parents feel fine about using it on a teeenage son as well? Also, was the poster a boy or a girl?
 

(Note: this letter is not anonymized on special request.)

I would like to comment on her in-depth discussion of the spankophile phenomenon and how it relates to normal family discipline of kids. I am a spankophile myself, therefore I completely understand how she feels. There is a huge difference between liking spankings as part of sexual play between adults, and disciplining a kid for misbehaving.

With me, spanking was a regular part of upbringing, having been brought up in Eastern Europe in the 60s and 70s. I was spanked on occassion, not very often, but when I was spanked it hurt a lot. My mom was the one administering it on bare butt with 4-5 lashes of electrical cord. Sound harsh? Well, it did hurt a lot, but the marks disappeared in about half a day and no permanent damage was done. I do believe that the fear of spanking helped me growing up as a basicaly a good kid. Therefore, I do believe that spanking can be very useful in raising kids.

Now, for the fetish part: :) with me it started in early puberty when I realised that the act of preparing for a punishment, being ordered to strip from the waist down, the whole idea of submisson, started to hold a certain mysterious attraction. Without going into a huge amount of detail (we can discuss this off-line via email), I developed into a spankophile: a person who likes the roleplay (not necessarily the pain), the psychological aspect of submission, to be part of sexual play. This means, of course, sexual play between consenting adults. Many people mistake S&M or BDSM for cruelty, violence or abuse. Not is the slightest.

How does this relate to family discipline? For me, there is a definite and extremely well marked divide: they do not mix. While I do believe that spanking has helped me grow up straight, I would probably not spank my own kids (if I had any) for fear that it may spark an inappropriate involuntary reaction from me. Somebody else would have to do it.

I would like to talk to somebody here, a parent or an adult, with similar experiences as myself. Therefore, it is ok to publish my email. I look forward to hearing from you.

Best regards, ... from Czech Republic

(in another mail, same date:)

Hi - a voice from overseas - have you ever heard of parents using electrical cord to discipline their kids? you may want to consider adding it to th list of implements. It is commonly used in my part of the world.

I was raised in eastern Europe and got it occasionally with the cord from my mom. I thought I was the only one, but then lately I have discovered pictures and even talked to people from that part of the world who got the same treatment. I realize that this sounds harsh, but actually it is not that bad: it leaves U-shaped stripes but they disappear in a few hours, not matter how bad it hurts at the time. The truth is that really hurts. I must say that it instilled in me the fear of my parents and of screwing up. In all honesty, I think it really helped me.

I would welcome input from others on this forum. Please leave my email intact.
 

Do you believe in slavery, especially as it was practiced in Christian America on plantations? Many justify slavery biblically. Was wondering if you did too?

The white Master loved his slaves, and provided for them as best he could. But he also whipped them if he felt they were becoming too independent, intelligent, or "arrogant".

The whippings of slaves were generally administered on the bare back with a whip. (Unfortunately this included slave women, whose breasts were partially exposed during the punishment).

Sometimes the slave's buttocks were bared, and a wooden paddle used.

Do you also approve of such whippings of Black slaves, especially given the bible's approval of whipping in general?

Thank you.
 

I am a firm believer in using spankings as a means of discipline for my 15 year old son. Over the years, i have modified the technique I use before, during and after the actual disciplining.

When I have decided that a spanking is the appropriate method, I tell my son to come with me into the den. I close the door and I bring with me a small wodden paddle. I sit down on a high back wooden chair and I have my son stand next to me. I ask him to lower both his pants and underpants. When this is done, I will lecture him as to why he is getting punished. When this phase is completed, I tell him how many strokes with the paddle he will receive (depending upon the behavior) he is then taken across my lap and I administer, in a steady manner, the aforementioned strokes evenly distributed to both sides of the buttock near the area where he will be sitting on. When the punishment is completed, my son is told to stand up and I then explain why I have done this and that I love him and care greatlyu for him and that is why I had to administer the spanking. After giving him sufficient time to regain his composure, he is sent to his room.

I find that using this technique provides for the necessary factors needed for a punishment while maintaining the love and respect for my son.
 

To Whom it May Concern:

I have read your website, and strongly disagree with your opinions on spanking teenagers/children over the age of 10.

To put this in perspective, I am 15, run cross country and play lacrosse. If either of my parents tried to lay a hand on me, I would construe it as assault and simply pound the living crap out of them. Yes, I am capable of this. I am stronger than either (and possibly both combined) of my parents.

Although you say that it is only acceptable when the teenager in question is cooperative, I believe that this is not relevant. When a parent is hitting a child, the question of whether it is "cooperative" or not quickly goes by the wayside and the instinctual response to violence is to respond in turn with violence. The potential problems within a family a full-on fight, which results in broken bones, permanent damage, and hospitalization (I've been in a few), are beyond repair and thus do not justify the risk that the very small potential benefit of spanking presents.

Sincerely,
 

Thank you for a wonderful website.
 

Hi

Q1) Should a toddler be allowed decide whether or when he/she is going to be spanked by not cooperating?

Q2) If it looks like the toddler is never going to cooperate and if the parent has promised to spank than what?

With this age group I believe that the parent should try to get the child to cooperate, but only for a few minutes, because the child needs to learn that it cannot get out of a spanking by not cooperating or by throwing a temper tantrum.

I agree with you that it is preferable to get the child to cooperate, but than if all children were little angels and did has there parents asked than spankings would not be needed.
 

I'm now 31 woman and I wish I was spanked especially during my teenage years. I was out of control and got into lots of trouble. I was always sneaking around with my boyfriends and doing things I now regret. I was wild and stubborn. I probably should have been spanked regularly and often like many have suggested.
 

I wish I could find someone to spank me when I do wrong. I am 22 right now and, it's not really possible. Could you please give me some tips? this is not a pervert thing
 

I am a 17.5 year old and I am having confused feelings right now.... I understand that my mom has the right to spank me and such I think..... but she hasnt in awhile... it has been about 5 or so years. and I am sorta thinking about asking my mom to I guess spank me, that sounds kind of weird because my older sister enjoys it from her husband.... sexually... so it is kind of weird for me to ask my mom to spank me... what if she thinks that I mean because I want to be sexually aroused like my older sister. I push my mom to the limits and such and the only thing that happens is a huge 2 hour lecture that just makes me feel worse and not worth it and stupid and not wanted here..... so in a sense to me it is well I have never been grounded only for like a week one time.. that was because I was caught smoking when I was 13.... I hated being grounded.... I would have honestly rather been spanked... get it over with.. I have not been grounded for any other reason other than that one time. All of my mom's friends especially her boss whom I call daddy because he is more of a father than my real father, anyways they all tell my mom that she takes it too easy on us as in me and my little sister..... she threatens me and my little sister that she is gonna beat our backsides but she never does... and we both know that.... I am embarrassed to ask her and I am not sure how to ask her to do it.... I hate it, but one thing that I did like about it was the love and affection that she showed me afterwards.... and I feel that my mistake was erased sorta... now I feel that she NEVER forgives me and she is soo stressed all the time and I know that it is my fault.... she tells me! There has been a few times that I have pushed my mom into spanking me and she never does.... she says that she is going to but never does... she tells me and my little sister that she is afraid that she will go to jail... can I maybe have some advise on how to come to her and ask her that maybe this will work instead of the downing lectures that make me feel like crap and worthless??? thanx

(in another mail, dated January 23)

I wrote yesterday and asked about how to come to my mother and ask her to spank me again.... a few fears that I have is 1 my little sister is a big mouth and she will tell everyone that I am being spanked at my age which is 17.5. I have found out that there are many other older teens/ young adults that may have the same problem... Also I am afraid that she will tell everyone about it... her and her boss talk about the topic of spanking all the time.... so I know that they are both REAL PRO spankers. But like I said she talks to him about it and I know that they will talk about it... and that is embarrassing to me... and I am afraid that she will really hurt me.... I have not been spanked in about 5-6 years and I have been swearing a lot, doing bad in school, I do not care about anything.... and I always forget about my curfew or I do not forget I just choose to try to go a little longer with it if I am quiet then she will not hear me on the computer.... and when she catches me I tell her that I am doing homework... a few times that was true but most of the time I lie about it, because I am just talking to friends that I do not talk to anywhere else.... I have been reading your website for the past 2 days since I found it.... you cant read it all in 1 day! But the punishments that I get now is a 2.5 hour long lecture that makes me angry and want to die because she makes me feel really stupid when she tells me that " I am more stupid than she thought I was... why do you hate me soo bad?, why do you not talk to me? why do you get an attitude with your little sister? why are you not listening to me.... if you were so and so's kids they would spank you and you would not like that..... why do you want to kill yourself? do you hate me that bad? how are you going to make it on your own when you are irrisponsible around here, I have tried everything, grounding you, taking away things, and nothing seems to work...." would that be a good time to say for her to try spanking me??? the problem that I have with that is it is too embarrassing to me to tell her..... so I have been thinking the past 2 days of ways to tell her.... I know that I have to talk to her just me and her... without my little sister which is pretty hard to do... she is always around demanding my mom's attention.... and right at the moment Steve is here and now Roman is too... I need to talk to her soon about it..... I have a lot of guilt and stuff bottled up inside and I want to stop swearing but I can't on my own... do you have any advise for me??? thanx again... Donna, and you can keep my name and address on here... Thanks for your time!
 

I have never seen a treatise on spanking children with more opinionated data. Who are you and why should anybody give you credibility?

You have set yourself up as judge and jury on this most important issue as only an arrogant person would. The Bible gives man the only information about corporal punishment needed other than the use of common sense. It never states that a hand can be used; that a child must be placed in a specific position, or that a child should be spanked for any other reason than rebellion (willful, knowing disobedience).

Your lack of the principles of child training is far exceeded by your microscopic obsession with your own, anonymous distortion of spanking. Might I suggest that you study your subject a little more? Sincerely,

R. F(...)

author of What the Bible Says About Child Training.
 

What can I say? After seeing this site I really think that you people, who are such imbeciles as to believe that you are using torture for the children's own good, should be as humiliated as those poor, poor children and than...killed! I think that this site was created by frustrated people, who just won't admit to the fact that abusive parents have a big mental problem and should be locked away in a mental institution. You see, you should all admit that the children are not the problem you are! But it is far easier to find a web page that says "It's OK! Keep showing your love!", because this "OK" makes you live with yourselves and sleep at night! If we say "yes" to spanking, than we might as well say "yes" to abused women, to rape, to murder...Do you really not realize that you are hurting part of your own flesh! Having sex is the fun part in having a baby, but giving birth does not make you a good parent! It doesn't even make you a parent! Raising a child in harmony and teaching him values and loving him is what makes you a parent! If you hit your child for something that you didn't teach him is stupid! You should be spanked, because you are a bad parent!

And as for the abused children out there, i would like to tell them that there are laws that can help them and that they shouldn't't allow anyone to treat them like caddle!Because parent's can take away phones, money, computers and TV-sets, but why should you allow them to take away dignity?
 

Dear swl,

my name is d(...) and i am 14 and live in the uk.

although i am a teenager my parents still use spanking to punish me. i think i am quite old for it, and it does hurt, but i know that it helps me to be a better person. thanks for your website - it has helped me to realise that i am not the only teenager who gets smacked, and who needs it to help make me a better and more respectful person.

i do have one question, though. i know this is a bit strange, but i was wondering if you could help.

my parents smack my bottom, and i used to get bare bottom spankings, but recently my parents have decided that i can be smacked over my underpants, now that i am older, so it is not so embarassing, although i will still have to go over my dads lap and the smackings will still be hand ones. however, i was wondering if it made a difference what underpants i wear for my spanking. i think my boxer shorts are made out of a thinner material, and so i was thinking that it might make the smackings more painful. i know that they need to hurt to help me, but my parents have said that i will get more smacks, which are harder, now that i am getting smacked on my underpants. or is it better to wear trunks (like boxer briefs i think) or briefs for my smacking? boxer briefs do have legs so they are more protective, and they both have tighter material that stretches over your bottom more. do you know if it makes the spanking more effective if you wear different underwear?

as i said, i know this is a bit strange, but it would help me to feel that my spankings are helping me.

dont worry about hiding my name and email address. if you do want to put this on hte letters bit of your site, then other people might be able to email me with their ideas or experiences if they think it will help me.

thank you.
 

the best way i think to spank a child is to bend them over your right leg and the place your left leg over there legs and they will not be able to move so you can start your spanking
 

(Note: this letter is not anonymized on special request.)

The "Light Hearted" page of this website mentions birthday spankings, and says that "children everywhere find them a source of innocent fun and excitement."

Well, yes and no. The playful birthday spankings which our 2nd grade teacher gave to every boy and girl in my class were somewhat traumatic for me; and I've seen similar reports elsewhere about other children. In my case, for better or worse, the after-effects were a spanking fetish for the next 55 years. The reminiscence below discusses the episode and its consequences, and leans against the idea of involuntary birthday spankings for youngsters.

You can use my net name, and show my web address like this: vicarious98 at lycos.com (Real people can use @; we hope spam machines can't.)

(cut... sender describes in detail how he didn't find the tradition of school birthday spankings a source of fun at all, and how the birthday spankings of female classmates he witnessed in 2nd grade sexually aroused him. ...end cut)

Seriously, though, I should add a PS that obligatory birthday spankings have no place in a classroom or on children. Even in the 1990s, a national Canadian TV newscast reported how distraught a girl became by such a deceptively innocuous, but nevertheless involuntary "paddywhacking" in front of all her grade school friends. A certain kindergarten website in 2003 profiling its pupils had one girl's answer to a set question on "least favorite" thing to do at school: "get a birthday spanking!"

If indeed, "children everywhere find them a source of innocent fun and excitement," I wouldn't want to spoil the game just because a few of us have certain side effects . . . But I do think that when a party or grade-school classroom occasions a birthday spanking, it should be clearly stated that nobody *must* have one, and any child who prefers otherwise can skip it.

And one more PS: I had two kids of my own; boy and girl; never spanked either of 'em--except a swat once when my daughter bit my leg; and a couple of swats to each once when they conspired in a long shouting spree.
 

(Note: this letter is not anonymized on special request. For background, see this sender's mail from December 17, 2003)

Dear SWL,

Thanks for your reply. There is something I wrote some time ago, which I believe answers your letter. It's called "Ask Ten Spankers." See http://nospank.net/askten.htm. Feel free to post it if you wish. No need to anonymize anything that comes from me. Happy New Year.

Jordan

Parents and Teachers Against Violence in Education (PTAVE), P.O. Box 1033, Alamo, CA 94507-7033. Web site: "Project NoSpank" at www.nospank.net Telephone: (925) 831-1661
 

Is 35 too old?

One Sunday morning my then 35 year old daughter came into the garage where I was working and started yelling at me. She was obviously upset with something so I calmly asked her to calm down and I would talk to her. But instead she continued her rant. I calmly asked her a few times to just calm down and I did not need the people next door to hear this. After about 10 minutes I went into the house and told my wife to get daughter out of my face now! Wife totally out of character said "I don't care what you two do and took Grand Daughter outside to get her away from the mess. I went to the other side of the house and into a guest bedroom to get further away from where Grand daughter could hear. Daughter followed me in and when I closed the door she paused but I just sat calmly on the bed and once again asked her to calm down and I would talk to her. Instead she continued her rant circling the bed that I was sitting on and then called me a name that she had never called me before. I was about 20 minutes into this abuse and did not see an end in sight so I got up and told daughter I was done and she could fight with herself. At that she blocked the door and screamed in my face "I am not done with you".

Being totally unnerved and not knowing what to do, I picked up all 105 lbs of her, sat back down on the bed and laid her face down across my lap never thinking I would really strike her. I then told her that this was serious, I was done with her abuse or she was going to get it. She turned back, looked at me and said f..........you with all the confidence of knowing I had never hit her in her life. Almost as a knee jerk reaction much to my surprise I cracked her little behind very hard about 3 or 4 times. I then asked if she was done and I could see she was just more angry and determined not to give me any satisfaction so I finished. Somewhere between then and her next 10 or 12 very hard cracks her stiff up became lots of pleading and crying. I was in shock, she was in shock, in pain and totally humiliated.

As she stood up crying and holding her backside, I hugged her and told her that I loved her but I have been much to good to her in her life to treat me like that. I then left the room. After about a half hour she came out of the room and went home leaving Grand Daughter for the day.

That evening as she came to pick up Grand Daughter she asked if she could speak to me privately and I agreed. She told me she was very sorry, loved me very much and was sorry that it had come to that. She also told me that if it made me feel any better her ass was still on fire.

Please note that this is not normal behavior for any of us. Daughter is a good wife, mother, daughter and school teacher. We are still a very close family and have had a great year. The point of this story is that maybe it is never too late.
 

Dear SWL

Although I follow your advice and stick to spankings for my two sons when they need it, I recognise that others may still wish to use the cane, in a similar manner to my own experiences as a boy at colonial era boarding school in Africa in the 1960s.

There were two sorts of canings, a junior caning, given to boys up to the age of 11, which consisted of between 2 and 8 strokes with a lightweight rattan cane just over 60cm in length. Junior canings were quite common affairs administered by the housemaster, his deputy or the PE master in their study or office. The precise details of the punishment varied from master to master but generally, shorts and underpants were taken down and the boy bend over a desk or the seat or arm of a chair. The canings themselves were not that hard but they stung like craze and left one hopping about afterwards with either single red stripes or a broad red band to tell its own story for the next 24 hours or so. Most boys claimed they did not cry, I am not sure that was true, certainly more than four of the best used to make my eyes water even when I was 11 years old.

A much more serious punishment was the senior or headmaster’s caning. The youngest boy I knew who received a senior caning was nine years old, I was 10 before I received the first of three such punishments before leaving the school at 13. A senior caning was administered either by the headmaster or his fearsome deputy. A headmaster’s punishment consisted of between six and 12 of the best given with a slightly larger cane (75cm in length) in the top study, in reality a store room at the top of the school away from the general flow. For a senior caning, you were told to report at a certain time, after lunch or after tea. The headmaster (or more usually his deputy) would come up just after you, lead you into the study and lock the door. It was then a brief lecture followed by the order "take off your shorts and underpants", which you obeyed quickly, placing the clothing on a side table folded neatly in the preferred manner. You then lay lengthways on a piano stool, legs together and had your shirt pulled up to your shoulders to expose your bottom. The canings were harder and slower and hurt like craze after the initial blow had worn off. Keeping as quiet as possible during these punishments involved biting you lip hard with tears often resulting. Afterwards, I took advantage of the proffered wet flannel kept in a bowl of water to cool the bottom and wipe away my tears. A senior caning resulted in a very sore bottom with bruising visible for some days. The final big difference was that the punishment was always publicised in assembly, the boy’s name was not given but you always knew who it was as their face was as crimson as their bottom!

Yours

K(...)

PS Here are a few pieces of information you might wish to use in posture and techniques page on the subject of canings or similar punishments. I emphasise that I stick to spankings myself as most people view the use of a cane as excessive. This advice is based mostly on my experiences on the receiving end plus experience of using the cane as the junior boys swimming coach at the same school in the mid-1970s.

Always use a cane meant for punishment purposes, garden canes and the like are too dry and will break and splinter. For maximum dramatic effect, I recommend a cane with a curved handle. To this day most boys know what a punishment cane looks like!

I do not believe the cane should be on general display, it may suddenly disappear just when you need it. Keep it safe and out of reach to add to its "mystique". If you think it necessary, have a spare cane hidden in another location. In a typical home, I suggest using the boy’s bedroom for punishment. If you have a home with the luxury of a spare bedroom or study then this "neutral" territory may be more desirable.

In the absence of a piano stool or bench, make the boy lie over the end of his bed with his feet on the floor, legs together. If this is too low or not possible then make him lie over the seat of a dining chair or similar, he should have something to hold onto be it the legs of the chair or some bedlinen. Cushions or pillows can be used to raise the boy’s bottom to a more prominent position if need be. I would always suggest that the boy bares his bottom for punishment, this adds to the punishment and enables you to see the impact of each stroke as it is administered.

The vast majority of my canings as a boy were with a junior cane about 60cm in length. A senior cane is perhaps 75-80cm in length at most. Canes should always be lightweight, between 8-12mm in diameter and flexible. For younger boys (6 to 8 years) a "spanking" cane of perhaps 45cm in length and very lightweight could be used if desired. The advantage of this implement in that the child can be punished across your lap in a similar fashion to a spanking. Whatever cane you use, they must be checked and maintained before use. Canes can be dipped in water periodically to keep them supple but remember to dry afterwards as they can rot. Always check that the cane is intact before use for splits or splinters and capable of being bent double without breaking.

From experience, a stroke of the cane results in a white mark, which then reddens in a few seconds with a wider area reddening a little time after that. By the time punishment is finished, the marking will be very noticeable, certainly after about 10 minutes. For a junior caning, the objective should be to spread the strokes over the bottom from the upper third down to the area where bottom becomes thigh (the most tender spot). If you cannot achieve this then use more gentle strokes and concentrate on the middle of the bottom as it is the most well protected area. For caning the younger child (10 and under) keep the arm outstretched so that the cane tip extends beyond the child’s bottom by at least 10cm. This will avoid any injuries as the cane will wrap around and onto the thigh. In order to avoid marking the right thigh low down, try and position yourself so that you cane in the horizontal plane or even slightly angled up the body. The technique is to just flick the bottom using the wrist. The marks from a "junior" caning should have faded by morning or the next day, perhaps with some mild bruising and tenderness remaining.

In all cases, a wet flannel eases the sting and possibly reduces the marking. In order not to lose the immediate impact of punishment, you could delay the application of a flannel for several minutes (perhaps corner time). For younger children, I think it is all right to gently rub the bottom with a flannel yourself, for older children just give the flannel to them to deal with.

A more vigorous caning will almost certainly lead to some welting leading to bruising, which can be quite extensive and last several days. In terms of gradually increasing the strength of the stroke, start the swing from the elbow and finally use the whole arm but just from shoulder height. Bear in mind that increasing the swing lessens accuracy, at all costs avoid hitting the kidney area as damage could result.

In terms of posture for the cane or a similar long-handled implement, I think lying lengthwise on an object about two feet above the ground like a piano stool or bench is probably the best. The boy bends over with his waist positioned at the end of the stool/bench with his feet touching the floor, this leaves the bottom not fully bent over but well presented. The other position I experienced when being caned by my sports teacher was to bend over with my hands on my knees. This is not as extreme as touching toes and presents a less acute angle to the cane and also provides something to hold onto when being punished, essential to prevent hands flying up to protect the bottom.

The final tip I would offer is that if a vigorous punishment is required, it is a good idea to make the boy empty his bladder first to avoid any accidents occurring during punishment, something we had to do prior to a senior caning.
 

hi, I have 2 wonderflul children. A four year old little boy, who at times can become unruly, and a three month old little baby girl.

My son has always been well behaved little boy. Well his dad has recently left us, and since then he has been avting up. In his whole life i have maybe had to spank him one time. well the other day his daycare called me and told me i had to come pick him up and he was not allowed to come back. Apperantly my son and another little boy got into a fist fight. When we got home I took him to my room and told him that fighting is unnacceptable. I told him taht he was going to get a spanking for fighting and one for lying to me about it. So he pleaded over and over again. I admit that for the most part since his dad left i have eased up alot on his attitude since i don't want him to blame me. But later that night he was laying in his bed watching a movie and i laid his sister beside him so I could clean. I was in the same room. well he bit her and drew blood. I spanked him once for that too.

I spank my son over my knee with my hand on his bare behind. But i am really afraid to spank him more than once because I don't want him to be taken away. DHS already tried to take him away because of my ex so i can't chance it. I love my children too much. What should i do? Any suggestions. (...)

Concerned mother.