Atrocities are already happening to smokers

Just because they smoke!

THE WAR ON SMOKERS MUST STOP!

Dear NSadv (No Smoking Advocate?):

Lest there be any question to what part of your post my answer pertains, I will quote each paragraph from your original message, which is still online and available here in its entirety.

NSA: "I could write a novel here about the dangers - proven dangers - and risks to both smokers and non-smmokers. I could provide countless pages of documented statistics from worldwide medical agencies and accredited individuals who know their fields of study, none of which can be denied or proven false by the likes of you or any other uneducated, uninformed smoker."

Spinner: And it would be a "novel," a work of fiction, because you would never research to find the truth. People who believe the popular press, often called "presstitutes" because they have sold their souls, and use soundbytes for their rallying cry are seldom interested in the truth unless it backs up their preconceived ideas. Like the EPA who cherry-picked only the studies that agreed with their preconceived, prepublished belief that shs is a Class A carcinogen, and like self-described "anti-tobacco lunatic" Stanton Glantz, who has publicly said he won't even undertake a study unless he thinks it will further his cause. To call me or any other stranger on the internet "uneducated" or "uninformed" is presumptuous, to say the least. Scientists, medical doctors, PhDs, journalists, and all other professions are included in our ranks. And all of them are aware of the scam being perpetrated on the American public, smokers and nonsmokers alike, by this cultural jihad.

NSA: "I could recount story after story of encounters with crude, hateful, and defiant smokers who could not care less about anyone or anything except their filthy habit. I could talk about the terrible abuse of children who are forced to ride in automobiles and endure years of inhaling their own parent's cigarette smoke. I could talk about the rudeness of smokers who insist on standing beside doorways of retail businesses with absolutely no concern for those who must walk through the stench. I could list the countless ways in which smokers will try (albeit for naught) to somehow justify what they do by shouting "it's my choice" or "it's my right" or "I enjoy it" and the all too tiresome and stupid remarks such as "kiss my butt" or "stand upwind" or "go somewhere else" which are thrown back at a non-smoker who simply asks a smoker to refrain or move aside."

Spinner: And I could recount all the same types of things endured by smokers every day, including being called a "child abuser" by twits who believe the hype about the dangers of secondary smoke, even though ALL major studies except one show there is no harm to a healthy person, child or adult, from secondary smoke. You are encountering the Law of Unintended Consequences when you find smokers standing outside by doorways: you and your kind put them there. Before the sweeping smokefree laws, you didn't have that problem, did you? No, because people could smoke inside. Had you thought of compromise at that time, perhaps a smokers' lounge or area away from the rest of the workforce would have taken care of it, but that wasn't good enough. Smokers don't realize it, but they do not need to justify what they do; it is their right as long as it's legal, and should it become illegal, your problems will only have just begun.

NSA: "I could write about how smoker's minds are so completely clouded by smoke that they are unable to comprehend suggestions of compromise, choosing instead to consistently bemoan the anger and fear that they may lose their right to smoke. I could mention the fact that smokers will whine, cry, and hold on to their pacifiers while expecting all of the rest of society to act in a conciliatory manner toward them, while steadfastly refusing to show any courtesies in return. I could, but I won't.

Spinner:  If you did write the above, you'd be completely wrong. So far smokers have conceded to your every demand, whether fair or not, whether reasonable or not, whether right or not, and it's still not enough. If you and those like you cared one whit about what works, not to mention what's right, we wouldn't have people dying because of the War on Smokers. As for me, I am always courteous to those who are courteous to me, to others I reply in kind. I have yet to meet a true anti-smoker who knows the meaning of the word courteous.

NSA: "I could write a novel about you, Spinner. About how this website is, at the same time, both laughable and pathetic. About how your personal obsession is one for which you most assuredly need professional help in controlling. About how you are so clearly addicted to tar and nicotine, that you would cast aside the health and safety of your children and grandchildren, not to mentional all the nonsmokers over the years upon whom you've inflicted carcinogenic poisons.

Spinner: As always with antis, now it gets personal. Again, if you wrote anything about me, it would be no more than a novel--fiction from your warped imagination. When someone dares defy YOU, the arbiter or what's right and the annointed keeper of mankind, you all stoop to the same level. You have no proof of what you say, of course, because what you say is a lie--a lie couched in the most emotional possible terms to bring out the very worst in all who read or hear it. And then you say, "See? Look how the addicts act."  It won't wash anymore because more people every day are being shown just how big the lie they've been told really is. A friend of mine is fond of saying, and I'll repeat it here because it's true and it fits: "Teddy Kennedy's car has killed more people than have my cigarettes."

NSA: "About how you, like most every other smoker in society, are overly-defensive, full of hate for all non-smokers, and show your ignorantly self-serving character each and every time you "speak" about your so-called "right" to smoke.

Spinner: Unfortunately, smokers are not nearly defensive enough; like everyone else, they believe the lies they're told, but we're helping to change that. I don't "hate" anyone, smoker, non-smoker or anti-smoker--and they are three very distinct types of people. You, for instance, are an anti-smoker. You believe smokers are evil and filthy and addicted and have no right to smoke. Non-smokers, on the other hand, don't really care whether someone else smokes. Even if they themselves don't like the smell of smoke, or have some unusual reaction to smoke, whether psychosomatic or real, they simply don't go where smoking is taking place. There are certainly enough places now for everyone to find a comfortable venue. I seldom talk about my "right" to smoke, I'm far more interested in a business owner's "right" to cater to his smoking customers.

NSA: "About how ridiculous you are (as an "adult") for actually arguing on this board with the bright, concerned teen who expressed his/her views, and how you in your rancorous manner criticized this teen and denounced their opinions instead of allowing him/her the freedom to make intelligent and informed decisions and choices. About how you must have such an empty existence that you actually devote time and effort fighting for this "cause", believing it to be legitimate, rather than spending time, effort, and whatever (very limited) bit of intelligence you might have toward working for causes which will actually benefit the earth and the future of your own family. About how you, in your crusade for those rights you so often speak of, think nothing of denying non-smokers their rights to breathe clean air. About how you are neither rational nor intelligent nor fair-minded enough to admit that everything here in undeniably true. I could, but I won't.

Spinner: As have most smokers been brainwashed by the anti-smoker movement, so have teens and children even more so. Just because a teenager says something doesn't make it true, and had that youngster taken my advice and done a bit of homework, he or she might have become a better citizen for it.  We are raising a generation of Hitler Youth and I believe we should have learned from past mistakes not to do it again. I WANT my children to think, and they do. I WANT my children to question, and they do. I WANT my children to make their own decisions in their lives and to realize that everything they hear is not for their own good, and they do. It is far more important to me that my children be happy, healthy, considerate, compassionate, educated, involved, thinking, responsible adults than whether or not they smoke.

You have no idea what kind of existence I have (I don't spend time on someone else's forum bashing everything I think--in my arrogance--he or she is doing wrong). You see, YOU don't think mine is a "just cause," because you're ignorant of what the "cause" truly is. In your little soundbyte life, you believe this War on Smokers is really the Good Guys (you and Big Brother) against the Bad Guys (Big Tobacco and smokers), but you're very misguided. Some people are worth debating this issue with, and others simply don't have the foundation to understand what's at stake.

NSA: "What I WILL say here is THANK YOU!   ...Your post of March 31 to VFNS and LINDA in which you single-handedly became judge and jury of free speech and what is right or wrong, PROVED every point ever made by all non-smokers. YOU proved beyond any shadow of a doubt that your so-called "cause" is grounded solely on addiction and selfishness. Had you allowed every post to fairly remain on this board, irregardless of the position taken by the poster, it would at the very least, show to all visitors that you are strong enough in your beliefs to consider all opinions, and that you do actually care about the individual RIGHTS of EVERY citizen.

Spinner: Don't be ridiculous. This has nothing to do with "free speech." This has to do with "private property," which concept you've already shown you don't understand. There are a plethora of places for you to post whatever you want, which means your "free speech" right is intact. As I've said many times in many places, if someone wants to disagree with me in a respectful, dignified manner, that's fine, and I'll answer the same way. Such posts would not be deleted, but would probably be debated by others who frequent the board and maybe we'd all learn something.

For those who might read this and not understand my decision, go to the Smokers with Attitude forum and see what the antis have done to it. I won't allow my forum to become a place to trash smokers when one of my major complaints is that smokers have been taken in by the anti lies. They don't have to put up with anti lies here and they never will.

NSA: "SPINNER, READ THIS AND READ IT WELL: You are to be commended for this act of censorship because you have now destroyed everything which you and your cohorts in addiction have for so long fought. You are a SELF-PROVEN HYPOCRITE. A SELF-APPOINTED JUDGE AND JURY of what is "wise" and what can and cannot be said about this issue. Your cause IS about POWER, CONTROL, AND RIGHTS, but it has NOTHING to do with big government control as you'd have some believe. It is about YOU and other smokers who want the POWER to engage in your addiction whenever and wherever you please, you want CONTROL over anyone who disagrees, and your sole objective is to anathematize the RIGHTS of all non-smokers. You are so shaking in your boots afraid that the government and non-smoking activists (moving full-speed ahead) will somehow infringe on your own plan for control, your addiction, and self-serving objectives that you readily attack anyone expressing an opposing view."

Spinner: "Read this and read it well"? ROFL.  You think highly of yourself, don't you? Do you actually believe you've made a point here? My stance has not changed at all, not with this little diatribe of yours that you feel is so important or anything else you or your ilk have said. Maybe this will explain it in terms you can understand: My forum, my rules. Just like I believe that a business owner should be allowed to say the same thing: My restaurant, my rules. You seem to think you have some "right" to come into my forum and post what you want? In what document do you believe this "right" is enumerated? I have never said nor implied that smokers should be able to smoke "whenever and wherever" they please. But a business owner has a "right" to his private property. Smokers have no more "right" to smoke than you have a "right" to demand a certain kind of air. Those are not "rights." Sorry you can't tell the difference.

NSA: "Every day, ask yourself what kind of person you are. Look in the mirror at the direct effects of the addiction and ask yourself if your children and grandchildren could ever be proud of you. At your age, and as you get older, the best you could do with your life would be to have worked smartly, sincerely, and diligently for even one worthwhile cause that would help your family, that would contribute to a better world. Sadly, all you will ever be able to say is "I worked hard and fought hard for the right to smoke and inflict poisons on strangers and my own children" - what a grand and significant contribbution!

Spinner:  The one thing that truly sets anti-smoker nico-Nazis apart from the rest of society is their absolute belief in their own divinity. They know what other people think, how they act, how they look, even what kind of "contribution" they've made to society...all without ever having set eyes on the person. Simply amazing.

My children let me know on a daily basis how proud they are of me, as I am of them. That pride is possible because they have been taught to think instead of simply allowing themselves to be indoctrinated. No "brown shirts" here. It will not be sad for me to say "I worked hard and fought to the best of my ability for the right of free people to make their own lifestyle choices, without government micromanagement, without the fear of another regime deciding they were less than worthwhile citizens and therefore could be eliminated, without allowing the tyranny of the majority to defame and demonize one-quarter of the population without cause. I'm proud that I fought for the survival of all that made this country great. I wouldn't have it any other way." Yes, I believe it is a grand and significant contribution.

ADDENDUM--(Temper tantrum when NSA is defied by Annie)

NSA: "****Your proven display of ignorance does nothing at all but help the cause of non-smoker's rights, and further substantiates each and everything I stated in my open letter to Spinner. You simply could not have proven this case more thoroughly had you intentionally tried. So, thank you.

And just as a personal aside, my advice to you would be to run, do NOT walk, to the nearest mental health professional as
quickly as you can, because your emotional state is one of sad and hate-filled desperation, a true example of the insolent
aggression so consistently characteristic of people who are addicted to tobacco. ****"

Spinner: I saw no "hate-filled desperation" in Annie's post, only righteous and well-founded anger. If you think that is an example of "insolent aggression,"  just keep up the personal attacks on smokers and you'll realize how wrong you were.

 Another tantrum by NSA

NSA: "The hatred and aggression which so overwhelms every fiber of a smoker's being also completely clouds any sense of fairness, decency, intelligence, and understanding of right and wrong. Only a true addict will deny he/she has a problem. And judging by the vehement defensiveness shown on this board, I now realize that you KNOW every word stated is true. Otherwise, my words would be of NO bother to you; thus, NO need to censor my writing."

Spinner: Anyone else see any "hatred and aggression" from anyone other than NSA?  Get over yourself, NSA, your words are of no concern to me at all. I answered you for those who might not know what we're really fighting for. Or for those who might need to learn what "free speech" means and does not mean.

NSA:  "You can cry and whine "foul" to the heavens above and any fools who might listen to you for a moment, but when it's all said and done, addicts like yourself and Annie KNOW the truth. "

Spinner: Yes, we do know the truth, and one of those truths is that we are not addicts.

NSA: "My writing is an exercise in FREE SPEECH, and your deletion of it will not simply make it go away. I will NOT be censored for working for a just cause to preserve the rights of those who choose not to smoke.

Spinner: Your writing and posting here is an "exercise in" futility. Once again, the fact that I will not let you post your venom against smokers on my forum does not encroach upon your First Amendment rights any more than John Banzhaf's unwillingness to publish my essays on his ASH site tramples on mine.

One more thing, NSA, just how does allowing the business owner to decide whether or not to permit smoking, thereby giving the customer the free choice whether or not to enter such establishment, and the staff the free choice whether or not to work there translate to trampling "the rights of those who choose not to smoke"?

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