By The Associated Press
(1/10/05 - DAYTONA BEACH, Fla.) — It's a really old scam that is getting new life as a result of the Internet.
Authorities in Florida say out-of-state buyers are being taken in by what are known as "swampland" sales.
That's when unscrupulous companies portray fairly worthless property as good investments. In fact some of the property lots are actually underwater.
State regulators said weeks ago that they were unaware of the growing number of swampland sales on the Internet auction site eBay.
But now, officials with the state Division of Land Sales, Condominiums and Mobile Homes are now looking into the practice for possible violations.
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I am wondering how many other people were involved with a listing back in May 2004 with landsalesassoc? They were selling lots "outside" of Cherokee Village in a "3 day land liquidation sale". These lots are not accessible, you cannot build on them, and according to a realestate agent in the village these were give away lots years ago to get people to buy "real" lots. I just returned from there .... there will never be any roads into this area, and the county could not even tell me where they were. These people, of course, have closed their eBay account. I am looking for any kind of help or suggestions on how to deal with this.
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Ebay has quite a few listings each day for land parcels in Cherokee Village, AR. I purchased 12 lots last year, moved here from South Florida 11 months ago. It is a beautiful area, but prospective land buyers need to watch for frauds here on ebay selling this land.
Last week I had a fraud removed after I contacted ebay. This week I saw a listing with the photo showing the wrong corner lot for sale. The photo showed a nice corner lot some 5 feet rise from the roadway. The lot was actually across the street, in a deep hole! I contacted the seller but they were not interested until I threatened them with contacting ebay. They refused to correct the photo, but did state the actual lot was "a few feet to the right of the photo". In their newer listings, they have added a disclaimer about any photos are not to be considered actual pictures of the listed lot. What gall!
#1 reply
Thanks for the heads-up. If not for people like you who take the time alert others, these jerks would continue to make people mad, and worse yet, make money. Thanks again!
#2 reply
I recently purchased a lot in Cherokee Village and paid the seller in full by money order. The seller has not sent me the deed and is no longer an EBay seller. He has ignored me and will not answer any of my emails or phone calls. His phone has a recorded message that sounds like some young kid. The EBayer is Investmentlots and I believe this is a fraud. I have contacted EBay about this and they seem to be offering no help at all. Does anyone know of this former EBayer or have any suggestions? Thanks in advance.
#3 reply
Has anyone heard what I heard from a City of Cherokee Village official? I was told that more than 50% of the lots under SID jurisdiction don't perk. So you can't even build on them. The city employee told me that one of the biggest sellers of Cherokee Village on e-bay is knowingly selling these lots (for thousands of dollars each, I might add, and under more than one ID); but does not disclose the perk problem to buyers. I was told by the City employee that if I planned on paying thousands for a lot in this community, I should insist that the seller provide a perk test as part of the sale. I was also told to insist that an escrow company of my choice be used so you can get your money back, if the test fails. It's sad that some sellers think it is ok to withhold facts as long at they put such statements as "sold as is" in their listings.
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Ok...after watching a number of high buck auctions end over the last 7 yrs on here, as the last few minutes a zero or extremely low feedback bidder drives up the ending bid, its time.
Its time that eBay enact a LAW that bidders with 10 or less cannot bid on anything over $50 in the last 12 hours. I am sick of watching what is extremely suspicious activity by zero or low feedbacks bidding on land, cars, boats, stereos, etc, and then you never EVER see any feedback left for them, even if they win!
Its skunky business...and I am watching and making notes and I guarantee you, if I see fraud, I dont even bother reporting it to eBay, I go right to the Feds. I have seen them clamp down and nail a good number of scam artists based on complaints I have filed.
eBay...are you listening? its time. lets do something about it.
#1 reply
OK, so these low-time "buyers" buy a few $0.99 items to get in under the wire. Let's even say these auctions are actually bogus so "buyer" reimburses "seller" for listing costs plus a commission and then they leave each other wonderful FB.
Whenever there is a bid retraction or other suspicious activity, the other bidders should be fully informed about what happened and given the option of withdrawing their bids, or perhaps reducing their maximum bid. If all bidders bail out, restart the auction.
Still, once someone's max. bid is exposed, the cat is out of the bag, so to speak.
Also there must be ways to have software search for shills and other problems.
If EBay confirmed that each member was an actual person and prevented a person from having multiple IDs, it would be harder to create disposable IDs for shilling. Of course identity theft is possible, but that's getting into serious crime.
Maybe more unethical stuff needs to be criminalized, and where there are international differences in laws, EBay could post information so that before buying an item from another country you could check to see how tight their laws are.
OP reply
Good suggestions.
I just think that failure to act by the powers that be has cost many buyers so many millions over the last 8 years that it would boggle the mind. I hope every user learns to identify the signs that there are illegal activity going on in an auction and skips over complaining about it to eBay and goes right to the authorities.
Fraud is fraud is fraud. If its cheating the buyer out of .10 or $10k, if its misrepresentation , if its using shill bidders, its all skunkwater and it all is worthy of a formal complaint. Sooner or later the Feds will get sick of writing reports and they will make laws and start nailing these people.
#3 reply
It happens to me often on minor auctions, you get a bid, or two or three then along comes a zero feedback bidder at the last minute gets the high bid and then doesn't pay up.
I've won hundreds of auctions on ebay and never not paid up.
I say one, maximum two (why three chances?) strikes and you're out for good.
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When purchasing land, make sure the seller is willing to send you a copy of a land survey. You want to make sure the land is buildable. If a piece of property is deemed unbuildable, the land will not be salable. Once a land survey has been obtained, verify the information with the surveying company. Then research the information with the appropriate County's planning department. Nobody wishes to invest a sizable amount of money to learn that the property purchased is worthless.
#1 reply
Land that is not buildable may still be valuable for other purposes: growing timber, ranching, farming, recreation, mining, etc. The advice of getting a survey map is good however. You should also verify that the land has some kind of access. Either frontage on a public road or an easement through neighboring property until you get to a road that you are allowed to drive on. You can always go to court and get a "prescriptive easement", but that will cost you something.
OP reply
I agree, however, most people interested in buying land are typically looking at it from the vantage point of building on it. What is so scary, is that alot of the land ads on the various auction websites are representing land that is build-able. They may not refer to the land specifically as build-able, but they mention that water, electric and phone is ready to go and there is no time limit to build. All information is concerning residential lots not commercial. Many of the sellers may not have a real estate license. The ads are a bit misrepresentative. So, I just offered some bit of advice so that someone doesn't get stuck with a piece of land that is not build-able. I guess if someone doesn't hold a real estate license, it would equate to those who work for a living but don't pay taxes - tax laws are written for taxpayers! You know that kind of thing. With the disclosure laws that are on the books, I believe people are more easily prone to believe what the seller may say rather than getting hard evidence. So, just a word to the wise get specifics either from the seller or from the respective planning departments that are in charge over the county the land is to be purchased in.
#3 reply
This is a valid point. Houses and building lots are the kinds of real estate the average person deals with. However the average bit of land in the U.S. isn't immediately buildable; it's farmland, desert, forest, etc. etc. Land that is perfectly legal to buy sell, but takes the average buyer out beyond his depth. The mismatch makes for some expensive lessons.
#4 reply
"I guess if someone doesn't hold a real estate license, it would equate to those who work for a living but don't pay taxes." Angelshebe what kind of craziness is this. Are you saying that an owner of land doesn't have the right to sell it only through a realtor.Buy the way only the one who owns the land can sell it on ebay. What a leap of logic to equate tax dodgers with land owners selling their land.
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I think my property listing was just pilfered and used to scam somebody. I can't figure out how to contact EBay, so thought I would warn whoever is out there. My listing info on MLS was picked up by someone and they are/were trying to sell/auction my house. (In the Sacramento area) I got several cars 'circling the property'. One lady jumped my security gate and came to the door. When I told her the house wasn't in ebay and the price was quite a bit more, she actually got mad! My agent also got several calls off her sign and was puzzled until I told her what happened. EBay definitely gets a response, but one that I could gladly do without! I hope no one comes to my door claiming to own the place.
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First of all, let me quote the previous messages from ebay discussion board.
XOP wrote:
Hi I have bought property on e bay and so far have been ripped off for almost 35000.00 dollars. This concerns an e bay seller (deleted)@YAHOO.com She has never sent the deeds, she has now disappeared from e-bay and does not answer her phone! Yes that is 35,000 dollars. Any advice?I believe she has changed her name and still ha property for sale. This was all property in Arkansaw! E bay has got to stop these sales. Many folks are getting ripped right now all over the country.
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[email protected]
05/15/03 4:12 PM (# 9 of 26)
Hi XOP:
Please email us the item numbers and user ID of the seller and we will investigate immediately.
Thank you,
eBay RE
[email protected]
I really want to know if E-bay has taken care of this issue or not. When a seller claims "no lien, no back taxes due, it's buildable, with utilities, a special or 'ironclad' warranty deed," then a high bidder pays the money.... What if a deed never comes? or the property turns out unbuildable, with hundreds taxes or association fees? Are E-bay buyers protected? Can a buyer have a right to dispute this merchant if he/she pays by paypal credit cards?
#OP reply
Hi, if "XOP" is there? I'm about to place a bid on property in "Arkansas" too! It's kind of scary to know that you lost your 35,000 there! If a seller has 100% positive feedback, does it really mean it is a trustworthy seller? It's a game that you will never know until you plays....
#2 reply
After hearing so many horror stories about property trasactions-gone-wrong... I think I can see and value the assistance of a real estate professional! WOW, that is quite alot of money to blindly hand over to someone that you have never met. A transaction that large, i'm sure I would at least physically meet with the seller in person. If it was paid for by credit card i'm sure that the credit card company may provide some level of protection against fraud.
#3 reply
With that kind of money changing hands, why on earth are these people not using escrow? Even on line, there are some pretty affordable and reputable options for escrow, and seller does not get your money until your deed is safely out of their hands.
#4 reply
This is the same seller we are in the process of trying to get some of our deposit back on the parcel in Arkansas. In looking at the date of this message, this seller is still up to their dishonest ways more than 5 months later. We paid within 3 days of auction closing and never received anything! We contacted her several times via email and the response was always something new. Either the staff was ill or computers were down. We waited for one month and then contacted PayPal (no luck) and EBay (no luck either)but neither one could assist. We even drove 2000 miles round trip to view the land and found out that the land was misrepresented in the description. My husband and I met with the property owners association in the community where the lot is located and they verified that the large utilities area containing a cell tower was labeled on the plat map by the developer, yet never included in the description. Now we have received partial money back on our downpayment but the seller is says that we have to pay for relisting the property twice. Once for her listing costs she lost because we aren't buying the land and again because we originally bid on a different property of hers by mistake (Buy It Now) and she wants those costs reimbursed. Since then she has sold that property for more than we originally bid on it. So watch out that you don't buy this one unless you like cyclone fencing and huge cell towers! She lists many properties and uses different seller names.
Also, don't expect any documentation from them (deed, etc. because they'll have a million excuses not to send them to you). She never once contacted us, we always had to be the ones to inquire. I know that Ebay says to try and work things out by phone call but when the seller doesn't respond to your messages...this one cost us alot of money. Alot to us anyway. Trip costs and the partial downpayment. Since this has happened they have made their feedback private so no one can read their negative ratings.
So don't bid on anything with sellers who have private feedback. Although it wasn't private until just a few weeks ago. Sorry to ramble on but there are so many great honest sellers out there in Ebay Land and this was our worst experience so far and just want to warn others. Thanks.
#5 reply
Hello. I am a licensed Real Estate Broker in the State of Oregon. I do not claim to know the laws in your state, but I have this advise for you: Get a lawyer.
Whether you get a dime back, slap yourself on the hand and repeat: "I will not attempt to buy or sell property without a Realtor." This is why we are here so things like this do not occur. Best of luck.
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Merry Christmas! I have just found I've been sold a bill of goods. I bid on an auction, won and went to check out my new property only to find out the seller COMPLETELY misrepresented the details.
1)The picture on eBay was NOT the actual picture of the property.
2) The land is flooded with stagnant water standing 6 to 8 inches well over 50 percent of the lot. I had specifically asked the seller if there was water on the property, to which he said that there was none.
3)The Homeowner Association bookkeeper told us of the back taxes, dues and penalties owed by the Seller. This was NOT disclosed by the Seller, who only stated that 2004 dues were owed.
Due to the misrepresentation of the facts, I have spoken and e-mail the seller stating that this sale is voided by his misrepresentation of the facts. He wants me to pay the $50 fee to place on eBay & is now threatening to take this to court and put a lien on my home. Can he really do this? What recourse do I have available? Am I really bound to purchase property that was SO completely misrepresented? The agreed purchase price was $207. He also ownes a business AND sells on eBay. I originally told him I didn't want to tarnish his reputation and didn't want to post negative comments. But this has become ridiculous! I sent an message into eBay to discuss but am so disturbed by this unethical behavior that I thought I'd post.