This interview with Avoid One Thing was done in Feruary 2002 and appears in issue number 8 of Sink Hole.
So, Mighty Mighty Bosstones bass player Joe Gittleman wanted to start a band so he could get back to DIY punk rock basics. He wrote a bunch of songs and recruited an all-star cast to back him up. They recorded a CD and set out to tour all the while knowing that in the world had ever heard them and no one had any clue who they were. Of course they failed, right? Wrong. Along with guitarists Amy (Raging Teens), Paul (Darkbuster, Mung) and drummer Dave (Spring Heeled Jack, Pilfers) the band hit the road with H2O and Bigwig and began the process of winning over the scene.
I was fortunate to catch the band as they played their 4th show ever, I was even more fortunate to have snagged an advance copy of their recording. So, I was the lone person leaning over the stage screaming back the lyrics at the band. It took a couple of songs before the masses accepted them the way I did, though. This was a crowd of hardcore kids waiting for a hardcore show. At one point Joe joked “If you didn’t like that one, you’ll really hate this one cuz it’s even slower.” The band was unaffected and they took it all in stride and played their tunes and let the music speak for itself. The music, which was anything but hardcore, was also nothing like the music of any of the bands that the crew played or previously played in. There was no ska or rockabilly going on. What they did play was a refreshing no-frills, slowed-down, sweaty tee-shirt and ripped jeans kind of punk. You could compare their sound in parts to bands like Pegboy, The Replacements, Sugar, Jawbreaker or Social D even.
The more the band played, the more the kids got it, and by the end of their set the kids were dancing about. Joe, who afterwards admitted he was nervous as hell, led the charge, making jokes, jumping about and grinding out tunes. Much to the surprise of all the Bosstones fans-after the show Joe manned the merch booth himself. It was pretty nice to see someone who has had so much success in another band get back to good old-fashioned DIY punk.
So, after Bigwig and H2O finished their amazing sets, after all the tee shirts were sold, all the stickers handed out and all the equipment was loaded into the van-Joe and I (and eventually everybody else) set out to the parking lot to talk it all over. It was a beautiful night despite the rain and I think that the steady drops cooled us all off...
SHZ-I’ve had the chance to listen to an advance CDR of your new record quite a bit, and listening to it, it was not exactly what I expected. I mean this is a band made up of people from ska, rockabilly and hardcore/punk backgrounds. How did you end up with this sound?
JG-(exhaling) I don’t know man...You know its the kind of stuff I felt like writing, I guess. I also think that alot of people have abilities that don’t necessarily always show up in the projects they’re involved in. It’s really funny actually, this is the second interview I’ve done for this band and that was the first question in the last one, too. “The sound doesn’t add up”-you put all the pieces together and it doesn’t add up, but I think thats cool.
SHZ-Yeah, why start a new band if it sounds the same as the old one...
JG-Right, right...
SHZ-Was this (Avoid One Thing) your brainchild from the start and how did you pick or end up with the rest of the band?
JG-Yeah, it sort of was. Alot of it was me wanting to do something new after having done the Bosstones thing for so long...Now, I still really enjoy being a part of the Bosstones, I get satisfaction from that. I think there is some honor and integrity in being such a long-running band. At the same time I am one of eight guys, and I really wanted to do something that was separate. I started really writing songs about 2 years ago. I was just, in the back of my mind, really wanting to do something, but not knowing where it was going to go. Of course, at the same time I’m writing songs in another pile for those guys. That’s a completely different thing because The Bosstones is a collaboration, and in this (Avoid One Thing) one, I wrote all the tunes myself. I guess, long story short, I wanted to stretch out, have fun and do something new. So far thats whats going on. We recorded the record, I think it came out good...Actually, that was my original goal. I just really wanted to make a record. I didn’t even think about what would happen afterwards. As far as “picking” the band...Paul Delano (lead guitar), has been a friend of mine for years and years and years. I’ve always liked the way he plays guitar. He’s a really good, no bullshit, punk guitar player. Finding a drummer was tough, really tough. We finally got lucky and found Dave (Karcich). (After unsuccessfully trying out 16 drummers) The only problem with him is he lives in New York, but he takes the bus back and forth to practice. Amy (Griffin) was recommended by a friend. He threw it out there, I met her, she listened to what I had and she liked it. I really like her outlook on music and life. She’s fun to be around and she’s a great guitar player-there’ no two ways about it. I guess it really came together quickly, it just all worked out.
SHZ-What first planted the seed for you to want to do this?
JG-Over the years as I write tunes for the Bosstones, more and more I was starting to play around with “fake” lyrics in a way. The weird thing is, that as time went on, the “fake lyrics” felt more real to me. I didn’t want to disimpose finished songs into that band. It’s a band with a long history, we’re friends and I like Dicky’s (Barrett) lyrics. It’s just a different kind of thing, ya know. It probably came out of a sense of wanting to have a different kind of satisfaction from playing music. You know, I pretty much know whats gonna happen (at a Bosstones show), the place is gonna be packed, there’s gonna be a guy dancing around, I’m gonna be in the back. I just wanted to try something different.
SHZ-I guess that leads me to my next question...You go from being the headline band that’s going to sell out every show-to being an opening band that half the people either miss or don’t pay attention to. How weird is that-does it feel like starting over or what?
JG-It feels GREAT, I love it. I really like loading the van...No, seriously. I bought that van over there, I built a loft in it so we can sleep in it. I mean when the Bosstones first started, I booked the shows, drove the van, loaded the van. I was the “responsible” guy and I did all that shit. However many tours we did back then, I drove 95% of the time. I was into it. I mean, before I was in bands I was a roadie. I wanted to be involved with music anyway I could, whether I was playing or I was carrying equipment-I just wanted to be around it (music). Because of that background, I get a lot of satisfaction out of doing all the little things, like settling with the club, making tee-shirts, selling the merch...All of that stuff kind of went away as the Bosstones got more and more successful-because we were so busy, or because of the amount of business those things got handed off to other people. Now, I get to really do everything. I’m driving the van, loading the van, dealing with the club, selling the tee shirts and I get to hang out with H2O every night. To me, this is really great. Obviously, you could never compare the two, but what I can say is I’m happy with that (MMB) and I’m happy with this (AOT). Ya know, I guess I wanna just stretch out and challenge myself in ways that I haven’t been (challenged) in the last 10 years. But also, mainly, I just want to have fun. It’s different, there’s nothing at stake with this band at all.
SHZ-There’s no expectations?
JG-Well, yeah there are expectations...Their way down here. (he holds his hand an inch above the pavement) So, because of that, there’s a different kind of energy that surrounds it. You know what I mean?
SHZ-Listening to you guys on CD and hearing you live, the songs aren’t that much different from each other. You know how some bands sound nothing like their CDs when you hear them live? I mean, I guess it’s a compliment, and also it seems like you were careful to not overproduce-so you keep that raw feel...
JG-Thats cool, I’m glad you think so...I don’t know, I guess with this all being so new-I mean, I barely even now how to sing, I don’t think I could get fancy if I wanted to. Whether we’re in the studio or live, your pretty much gonna get the same result from us because thats what we sound like. I had kind of thought about how I wanted the record to sound-I’ve produced records in the past, I did an album with the Amazing Royal Crowns and I did a record for the Smooths, plus I’ve always helped out producing the Bosstones records. I just though about how I ultimately wanted the record to sound. Alot of the stuff that you hear on the album is shit that I recorded at home on a little digital 8-track. I never really knew what the song was going to be when I was making up lyrics. You know I was just home in my underwear hanging out and trying out lyrics and shit. I dumped them all into the studio thing (mixer) and we actually used a lot of that on the album. I cut all the vocals at home. The reason for that is that I was paying for the record myself. There was no label, no studio-I just really had no idea where this was going to go. I decided I would just bring the recorder home and sing when I feel like singing. It was a really cool way to work on a record. It was different than anything I had ever done before. Without getting to technical about things...We managed to take what was cool about the initial idea, and we carried that over onto the finished album.
SHZ-Would you agree that the album has a Replacements feel to it, their approach to music, that style even?
JG-I love the Replacements, I really do. Your the first person I’ve heard make that comparison, but umm...They’re one of the things that have influenced me hugely-their music. I mean, we were listening to the Replacements today. I would really like to think so, that we are something similar to them. There’s something about them that I really like, and that’s the openness to the lyrics. You never really get a cut-and-dry beginning middle and end. The song never just “sums itself up”, the lyrics are like stuff that just pours out of your head. It’s pure and raw. I guess thats the way I try and write. The way I write songs is I try and write them with words that sound good and sometimes I don’t know what they mean. For example, that song “Lean On Sheena” on the record...The line “Better yet, don’t forget, leave the keys on the TV set” was a completely different idea from “did you intimidate her, ....” and also from “Lean on Sheena, she leans on me alot”-I mean they were like 3 entirely different, random ideas that only seem like they go together. They were really just pasted together-I mean, there’s no one named Sheena.
SHZ-I was about to ask you that...
JG-There are a few exceptions on the record-there are a few songs that are really specific and are about certain people or friends. Most of the time, I don’t even fucking know what its about, dude. I don’t know if thats good to admit, but its true.
SHZ- Now, I know you’ve been on stage with bands for the last 15 years or so, but...Trying this, being something new, were you nervous you first show (4 days ago) and are you nervous now?
JG-Oh, fuck yes I was. I am still nervous. I’m working through it. It’s just so different-as much experience as I have had on stage, this is an entirely different ballgame. Now, I’m the one in the middle, I have to sing the whole show. I have a lot of respect for people who do it, and do it well. Like Toby from H2O, I mean he is on point all night long-he sings unbelievably, he’s just great on stage...Right now, we are just in the beginning stages of being a band, I don’t feel overwhelmed by the pressure to be good. This was our 4th show. Show number 1 was really scary. It still is, but really, lifes too fucking short to be self-conscious.
SHZ-How has the response been so far?
JG-It’s been good...I mean we’re playing pretty early. It’s good, I mean some people are like “what the hell is this” or they expect us to sound like the Bosstones or whatever. This young of a crowd, I mean a lot of these kids have never heard music like this before. Some people come up and say “wow, you sound like Pegboy”, or we remind them of Jawbreaker or whatever. Alot of these kids have no fucking idea who The Replacements are, or Jawbreaker, or anyone from that era. Basically this music is new to them and I think it will take a little while for them to open up to it a little. But, in April, we’re going to tour with Flogging Molly. I really consider that crowd, for the most part, to be people who are really into good music. I guess it’s more of a musically educated, older, working class crowd. I’m psyched for that, but I’m psyched for this, too. I’m psyched at the chance to turn some kids onto this. Whether it’s 1 at a time, or 2 at a time or whatever. I’m psyched to do another album...(he’s really psyched!) I don’t know if you noticed, but the first song we played tonight was a new song thats not even on the album. I mean we’ve already started to write the next record before this one even comes out. I’m just looking forward to everything, I’m really excited because it’s all new again and I have no idea how it’s gonna end or where it’s gonna take me. You know, maybe it goes into me starting a different, new-new band. I mean I want to do this, I want these guys to be into it, I want to be into it. I want us to all have fun and just roll. I just want to rolll.....
SHZ-How weird and difficult is it for you to tour without your album being out yet. Other than me and a handful of people that got advanced copies, no one has heard you. Unless they down loaded that ONE mp3 you have on your website, none of these people have any idea of what to expect.
JG-It’s a challenge. I mean, the people who have heard it have given me good feedback for it. I really hope that people end up finding it meaningful. If that happens and people get the CD, listen and know the songs-well, the shows will be a whole lot easier. Touring without a record is like being a local band every where you go. The thing is, this tour wasn’t about promoting the record at all, really. This tour is about the 4 of us trying to come together as a band. We really went about things backwards. Most bands play live, do shows until they have a chance to make a record, then they tour to support it. Well, that’s not how we did it. I really wanted to make a record, I think it could be good-I’ll deal with the rest later...Well, I recorded it, but then it was like “shit, this label wants to put it out, people like it, what do we do?”. Basically, we just decided that rather than play a show every 3 weeks or so in Boston, we would just hit the road and do it.
SHZ-Did you have to shop it around to alot of labels to find someone to put it out for you?
JG-No, actually Side One Dummy was the only label I offered it to. I like Joe Sib, all those guys. Basically, after 10 years on a major label with The Bosstones, I’m pretty bummed out with all that major label shit, so it was important we got it released with an indie label. Besides, I didn’t want to be on a label whose idea of ‘cool’ was throwing beach balls in the pit at the Warped Tour. I wanted to work with someone who liked the record and understood it and those guys really dug it.
SHZ-So speaking of the label, when are you gonna tour with Madcap?
JG-I like those guys a lot. I don’t know if we could get on a tour with them...I played with them with the Bosstones in Boston around Christmas time and they were pretty awesome. They’re really good guys, so young, so talented, so full of enthusiasm. I really like their song “Lazy Sunday Afternoon”. They had a lot of fun in Boston. They were hitting the Jim Beam pretty hard...We are gonna do some show with Flogging Molly and The Casualties, too.
SHZ-Thats quite a mix...
SHZ-You know, this isn’t really a question, but something I wanted to say...With the Bosstone’s you’ve accomplished so much. I mean you’ve been on Saturday Night Live, Sesame Street, The Tonight Show, you’ve headlined shows all over the world. Your basically a superstar. It really blows my mind that it was only 8 or 9 years ago that you and the guys would head over to my apartment after shows in New Haven to knock back beers. But really, I mean as a musician you’ve done it all and to see you basically putting everything aside to start this band and really start over is impressive. I mean your sitting on the ground in the rain while I interview you after a show you probably didn’t get paid for...
JG-I appreciate that. I don’t want to think that I was ever anywhere else. I don’t like to think there was ever a time that I wouldn’t sit in the rain to talk with a friend or a fan. I guess there were times when I fucking lost touch a bit, but I’m glad to be back.
SHZ-So how ‘bout them Patriots?
JG-I took a lot of pride in them winning The Super Bowl.
SHZ-And they came out to do a show with you?
JG-Well, sort of. They came out to a show and we were there.
SHZ-Did they sing?
JG-No, some guys came out, got introduced. Drew (Bledsoe) threw out a football into a crowd of about 50,000 people. They went nuts. He kept it low key. He got into some trouble at an Everclear show a while back when he did a stage dive and hurt someone. I think he’s a little tentative about that kind of stuff now.
SHZ-So, whats the one thing to avoid, whats the deal with the name?
JG-I think everyone has something that they should avoid, but don’t. But thats not it...Actually, to be honest with you, it was easier for me to write all those songs and record them than it was to come up with a name for the band. Everything just seemed so inappropriate. If I started rattling off some of the names, you would die laughing. The Loud and The Lazy was one of them. I mean what the fuck is that? Yeah, that name wouldn’t ruin a good record, would it? So, there’s this quote that my wife Angie taped on our ‘fridge... It’s a quote from this guy, he was a Trappist Monk and he’d been living in the woods for like 20 years doing self-reflection and stuff. Anyway, it says “Be anything you like, be madmen, drunks and bastards of any shape and form, but above all, avoid one thing...success.” I understood that in a way, not that we’re like Fugazi with success or anything, but I want this to be a different kind of victory for my music. Plus, I really like the line about madmen, drunks and bastards...But really, it’s just like anything else, the name’s take on real meaning if the music is good, if it’s not it doesn’t matter. I mean the Beatles is as ridiculous a name as you will find.
SHZ-So, while your explaining things-what the hell is Yakisoba?
JG-Yakisoba is a Japanese noodle dish. It’s a song that I wrote in Japan. That really shows how long I’ve been working on writing these songs. I started it a long time ago, lemme think...I quit drinking in ‘96, maybe 1995-whenever Lollapalooza was. Anyway, after that we went to Japan and that was my first tour ever being sober and not drinking and shit. It was fucking really difficult. Just putting one toe on the stage was fucking terrifying for me at that point. Well, anyway, everyone was going out all the time, the promoters were taking everybody for Saki. I’d just grab McDonalds and go back to the hotel and just try and cope-deal with it. Anyway, I came up with the chorus to that tune at that point in Japan 6 or 7 years ago-I finally finished it about 6 months ago. Basically, that song took a long fucking time to write, but that really sums it up-the shit comes in pieces.
SHZ-Do you get into the food when you travel in different countries?
JG-Yeah, I do. I don’t eat meat so that limits it. I do eat fish, so wherever I go there’s that good old McDonalds Filet O’ Fish sandwich if I can’t find anything else. But, yeah, I get into food, but lemme tell you who’s really into food-that’s Amy our guitar player. I’ve never seen any one person get so much pleasure out of a Waffle House breakfast or a Cracker Barrel lunch. Hey, here she comes now...
SHZ-What’s up? We were just talking about food.
AMY-Yeah, I just filled up on the free chips and salsa. Last night I had all the salsa, then I ate peanut butter and bananas.
SHZ-Did they give you a good spread here?
AMY-No, not really-chips, salsa and beer. At least it’s good beer (she’s holding a Guiness)
SHZ-The first thing I asked Joe was about the different style and sound. He and Dave come from a ska background and your from a Rock-A-Billy band-is this weird music for you to play and do you like it?
AMY-It was a lot weirder 4 days ago (the first day of the tour), but...I’m used to real twiddly type stuff. It’s real easy stuff to play. But now I have to kind of think about it. It really shouldn’t be hard for me, but it is a little. You have to be on time, the music is thicker. it’s different. I guess it’s a lot more challenging right now, but it’s what I really want to do, so it’s fun. I always wanted to play more melodic shit, where I could sing along and stuff. Honestly, I haven’t listened to Rock-a-Billy that much in years. This music is just much more fun for me right now.
SHZ-Yeah, you looked like you were having fun, cuz everytime I looked up you had a big old smile on your face.
AMY-I felt like I was pretty stiff up there, but thanks...
SHZ-So what are you kids listening to on the road right now?
JG-Today we listened to Fishbone’s “Truth And Soul”, Stiff Little Fingers- “All The Best”
AMY-The Replacements “Let It Be”
JG-Don’t forget Huey Lewis. Dave, our drummer for some reason likes to listen to Huey Lewis.
AMY-I’ve been listening to the Kings Of Nuthin on my Walkman. They’re from Boston. It’s new, but it’s only 4 songs, but I’ve probably listened to it 30 times.
SHZ-Thats got to get annoying.
AMY-No. I love it! I like the Alkaline Trio, too. We have a tape in the car. It’s an old one, I think it’s just called The Alkaline Trio. I really like song 3.
SHZ-Do you guys play any covers?
JG-Not yet, but there’s been talk of a Descendants cover. There’s a tune by them that I’d like Amy to sing.
AMY-I’d like to do that “Growin’ Up” song by Bruce Springsteen. Do you know it?
SHZ-Yeah, thats a good one, thats an old one... “I hid in the clouded wrath of the crowd, but when they said sit down, I stood up”
AMY-Ooh-ooh growing up, growin up.... Yeah, I’d really like to do it.
SHZ-So what kind of expectations do you have for this tour?
AMY-Mine are just to get used to playing-they’re being fulfilled so far.
SHZ-How long has it been since you were on the road?
AMY-The last Raging Teens tour was last summer, but just for about 5 weeks out of the year.
(I just noticed that Paul had joined us)
SHZ-And you?
PAUL-I haven’t toured since June of 2001. It was a freaking dreadful tour when I was in a band called Darkbuster. We had a lot of inner issues and personality conflicts and we also had a lot of problems outside of the band, like breaking down vans and shit. It was just a tough situation and a bad tour. A lot of shows fell through, we had bad planning, bad equipment. It was doomed from the get-go. But I’m really glad to be out again. I’m really into this, I’m having fun and honestly I’m ready to go right now. I wish we could play another fucking show right now. The first night of our tour we played Tallahassee and there were these kids who asked us to come back to their house and play a keg party. We were ready to go and do it, but it didn’t turn out to be genuine.
AMY-Its so hard to play at 5:30 PM. The other day we had to do that. It was awful. The show was over by 9:00...I’m ready to plug back in, lets go!
SHZ-Do you guys really dig H2O?
JG-Love ‘em. All their songs
. AMY-They’re so good live. I got into them years ago, but kind of strayed and hadn’t listened to them for a while, but now hearing them every night is so great.
SHZ-Yeah, I don’t listen to them much at home, but I love them live.
AMY-What do you listen to at home?
SHZ-I really like Oi! I listen to alot of Cocksparrer, The Forgotten, The Business, Oxymoron, Hudson Falcons...I also dig The Clash, Replacements, Madcap, The GC5, Nirvana. I’ll listen to everything from that to Bruce Springsteen or Elton John.
JG-Elton John? Thats not Oi!
SHZ-I’m just trying to represent a variety so I don’t sound close-minded.
AMY-Yeah, and that Daniel song is pretty hardcore.
JG- (singing) Daniel my brother, Oi Oi Oi!
SHZ-How ‘bout the Dropkick Murphys, they’re pretty cool. I think your playing with them in Boston St. Patricks Day weekend, how did you work that out?
JG-That will be our first Boston show! I’m so excited. Ken Casey heard the demo and really liked it and he asked us to play and I couldn’t be more excited. Yeah, The Murphys are awesome, I heard they’re real big down here, too. They even have their own beer?
SHZ-Thats right, courtesy of the Dunedin Brewery.
SHZ-So anyway, I’ve taken up enough of your time and I’m running out of tape, so unless you guys want to say something else, I’m gonna close it out. I always end interviews asking my subjects for 5 words to end it all, so line up, one at a time (at this point all 4 members were present)
JG-Mine would be “get back in the van”
PAUL-Do it yourself, always forever
DAVE-Every second of every day (sha lalalala)
AMY-I don’t really know 5 words.
JG-How about “lets stop at Waffle House?
AMY-Yeah, those are my 5! Lets stop at Waffle House!
Sadly, just six weeks after I did this interview AOT drummer Dave Karcich died after suffering an aneurysm. Dave was a good friend of mine-we both grew up in the Bridgeport/New Haven (Connecticut) punk and hardcore scenes and as happy as I was for him that he was doing so well with Avoid One Thing-I was devastated when I got news of his passing. He was a spectacular drummer who left this world after entertaining the punks of the world for over 10 years in various bands.
Avoid One Thing decided to continue on with the shows they already booked and they dedicated the tour in the memory of Dave. Joe Sirois of the Mighty Mighty Bosstones filled in as drummer.
For more info on the band, check their website, Avoid One Thing dot com or their labels site.
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