note: Leo and I were IM'ing one day, when he sent me this link to a logic game. I went and played it, and the following wackiness ensued. You don't have to go play it in order to understand the chat...but you should anyway; it's fun :) if you don't go play it first, here's the sitch:

There's a family of five on a cliff in the dark. They have to use this log to cross a little lake thingy, and they have to carry a lantern with them. Two people must cross at a time, and each member of the family travels at a different speed. 12 seconds, 8, 6, 3, and 1. You have 30 seconds on the clock. This is what started the whole chat ;)

<.Leo> hey
<.silver> heya
<.Leo> I'm teaching my coworker logic http://www.plastelina.net/examples/games/game3.html
<.silver> hm. and...i found that number....do you want it, or should i just e-mail it to you?
<.silver> heh
<.silver> cool
<.Leo> umm.. e-mail it, that way I'll have it in my computer
<.silver> kk
<.Leo> and I'
<.Leo> ll be talking to whom when i ask for ya?
<.silver> Angel
<.silver> oh
<.silver> wait
<.silver> you ASK for Angel
<.Leo> wait wait
<.silver> you'll be talking to my not-aunt
<.silver> her name is Marie
<.Leo> okay what am I doing again
<.silver> lol
<.silver> i'll hopefully call you guys first. if for some reason i'm not able to contact you, you can call me at that number. the person answering the phone will be a member of the family i'm staying with...relatives. just ask for Angel...that's me.
<.Leo> okay
<.Leo> there we go
<.silver> lol
<.silver> k
<.Leo> that wasn't so hard to explain, now was it?
<.silver> heh
<.silver> no
<.Leo> :-D
<.Leo> gege
<.Leo> hehe
<.silver> * looks askance at Leo *
<.silver> yeeeeeah
<.Leo> <-slow
<.silver> lol
<.silver> are you IM'ing while you're teaching someone, right there?
<.Leo> well at the computer next to mine
<.silver> aaaah
<.Leo> and it's totally not work related
<.Leo> she just doesn't get logic
<.silver> aaah
<.silver> gotcha
<.Leo> when I say "teaching" I really mean "instructing" and when I say that I mean doing for, but with her hands instructed by my brain...
<.silver> heh
<.silver> wait...your brain is instructing HER hands....
<.silver> that could lead to things
<.silver> ;-)
<.silver> is she aware you have this mind control over her body?
<.Leo> dude
<.Leo> don't say that
<.silver> lol
<.silver> why not?
<.silver> why, is she like, 70?
<.Leo> close enough
<.silver> lol
<.silver> you should be glad it's not the other way around, then
<.silver> 'cause.....ewwww
<.Leo> she hasn't the brain power
<.Leo> and I'm transmitting the instructions orally
<.silver> lol
<.Leo> okay I'm digging my own hole here
<.silver> orally, eh?
<.silver> heh
<.Leo> god why won't I shut up
<.silver> what's that about a hole?
<.silver> *g*
<.Leo> I'm just making it worse
<.silver> yes
<.Leo> I was telling her how to solve these logic games
<.silver> interesting
<.Leo> lets not say she's stupid
<.Leo> cause she's not
<.silver> i didn't
<.silver> i don't think
<.silver> *looks nervous*
<.silver> whatever....you and your stupid stereotype. i'm not afraid of you
<.silver> *looks braver*
<.silver> :p
<.Leo> just... she can't grasp any sort of logic by trying to solve problems outside the rules... and then complaining about it...
<.Leo> haha
<.Leo> yeah yeah
<.silver> lol
<.silver> well....certain people just think differently, is all
<.silver> what's extremely easy for one person might be very difficult for someone else, and vice versa
<.silver> which is actually the same thing, so never mind
<.Leo> fat old russian christian ladies that grew up in france can't do math... yeah that's what i said... sigh...
<.silver> *snort*
<.Leo> it's not that she thinks differently
<.Leo> i think differently
<.Leo> that's not the point
<.Leo> she won't read the rules and then complains
<.silver> then she's just lazy
<.silver> where'd you find these games?
<.silver> they part of some educational site or something?
<.Leo> no
<.Leo> like...
<.Leo> our co worker sent it to us
<.Leo> I donno
<.silver> ah
<.Leo> I came into the office and everyone was playing it
<.Leo> I was like pffft, please
<.silver> heh
<.silver> lol
<.Leo> then I played anyway
<.Leo> hehe
<.silver> slacker!
<.silver> *g*
<.Leo> our server was down, what was I gonna do?
<.Leo> hehe
<.silver> heh
<.silver> why's this family even climbing across a log in the middle of the night anyway? how stupid can you get?
<.Leo> yeah I know
<.Leo> I think they got high on some magic mushroom and they can't find their camper...
<.Leo> by...accident of course
<.silver> too bad there's no option to send them falling off the cliff. 'cause i'd totally do that. There's some thinking outside the box, for ya ;-)
<.silver> and lol
<.Leo> well logic calls for in the box lady
<.silver> pfft
<.silver> i like it out here, thankyouverymuch
<.Leo> haha
<.Leo> so this name thing is really massaging my brain
<.silver> what name thing?
<.Leo> your name hing
<.Leo> thing
<.silver> what about my name?
<.Leo> it's like pluralism....
<.Leo> one thing with more then one definition
<.Leo> lets say you are the thing and your name is the definition...
<.silver> okay
<.silver> say it
<.silver> ;-)
<.Leo> "you are the thing and your name is the definition"
<.silver> hehee
<.silver> happy now?
<.Leo> no
<.silver> lol
<.Leo> I am as perplexed as before
<.silver> what perplexes you? myself....i'm failing this game miserably. lol. if only i had 2 more seconds, i woulda made it
<.silver> lmao
<.silver> but the guy fell in the water!
<.silver> when i lost!
<.Leo> yeah
<.Leo> he's off the cliff
<.Leo> happy now?
<.Leo> ;-)
<.silver> definitely
<.Leo> now think in the box
<.silver> ha! he's floating in the water!
<.silver> lol
<.silver> *finds it very amusing*
<.silver> *kicks the box around a bit*
<.Leo> you have people, you have time, you have a bridge... you have speed laws...
<.Leo> ooh ooh which one floats?
<.Leo> the fat one?
<.silver> ya
<.silver> he's the one that fell off
<.silver> the last person i was taking across the log
<.silver> okay okay, inside the box. i tried to at first, but obviously my theory was wrong.
<.silver> the 1 second guy's gotta be on every trip, doesn't he? 'cause he's got to take the lantern back over to the other side
<.silver> and he's the fastest
<.silver> so it makes no sense to use anyone else for that job
<.Leo> as much as it helps to send him back alone
<.Leo> does it make a difference if a slower person goes with a slow person?
<.silver> doesn't it? b/c if say...
<.silver> you start out with two slow people
<.silver> one of them has to take the lantern back over
<.silver> then you're just waiting forever and ever ag ain
<.silver> again
<.Leo> yes
<.silver> then that same person's got to go over the log yet again
<.silver> more slowness
<.Leo> and a fast person helps when they are alone
<.silver> harumph
<.Leo> but it's about how you send the people over in groups
<.Leo> think about saving time
<.silver> harumph
<.silver> *plays with it again*
<.silver> so yeah...what perplexes you?
<.Leo> the pluralism that is displaced by your many names
<.silver> and also....are you sitting over there now talking to the chick you're helping and complaining about how stupid I am? 'cause if ya are, I'm *so* kicking your ass
<.silver> ;-)
<.Leo> no no, she was like... "why can't more people cross now?" "you have to bring the lantern back" "lantern?" "yes" "why?" "UUUUGH"
<.silver> hm. i can see already this one's not gonna work out. but i'll let it play out, b/c i wanna see someone die again
<.silver> and heh
<.silver> *sigh* i don't understand what pluralism you mean. why can't you speak in plain terminology? using words that the everyday layman uses? and me? the words that *I* use?
<.silver> *kills more members of the family*
<.Leo> Why is the name that I call you by not the name that I shall refer to you by, is it because the name that i call you by is not the name that you have or is it because your name has plurality?
<.silver> lol
<.silver> it is because the name that you have called me is my middle name...which everyone but my family and those close to me call. those familial people of which i speak call me Angel, b/c it's a shortened version of my first name, which is Angelique.
<.Leo> I asked... it's my fault....
<.Leo> O:-)
<.silver> lol
<.silver> dude. there's no way. there's only 30 seconds. if you add up all the times of all the people, it comes to 30. there's no travel time allowed back.
<.Leo> dude I can help you
<.silver> lol
<.silver> no!
<.silver> just tell me if there's actually an answer, of if this is some kind of trick game?
<.Leo> I've done it
<.Leo> that's all I'm saying
<.silver> and gotten them successfully across?
<.silver> all of them?
<.silver> within the time limit?
<.silver> can't they just....hail that passing ship and have 'em take them to the other side? lol
<.silver> i wish i could make 'em jump in the water and swim
<.Leo> INSIDE THE BOX
<.Leo> err
<.Leo> no caps
<.silver> lol
<.silver> you didn't answer my three questions up there ^^^
<.Leo> what things will save times
<.Leo> time
<.Leo> yes all of them
<.Leo> yes in the time limit
<.Leo> INSIDE the bloody box
<.silver> it would save time if I could make the family kill the grandfather, and get rid of his freaking dead weight
<.Leo> INSIDE!!!!!
<.silver> lol
<.Leo> hahahaha
<.silver> but don't you prefer my more creative approaches?
<.silver> all of my solutions would solve the problem
<.silver> damnit
<.Leo> I love them
<.silver> that's the problem with logic
<.silver> it doesn't let you think creatively
<.Leo> but there's only a limited number of possabilities in the perprogramed game
<.Leo> so go by the rules
<.silver> ya
<.Leo> inside the box
<.silver> grumble grumble
<.silver> *gets back in the fucking box*
<.silver> maybe i should try one of the other games first
<.silver> work my way up
<.silver> lol
<.Leo> and figure out what you could do to cut down on your time...
<.silver> i'm telling you!
<.Leo> 2nd is the hardest
<.silver> shoot the fucking grandfather!
<.Leo> so
<.Leo> okay
<.silver> lol
<.Leo> timesaving without GUNS
<.silver> drowning
<.Leo> ;-)
<.Leo> okay
<.silver> economical, too
<.silver> since there's water right there
<.silver> SNUFF THE BASTARD!!!!
<.Leo> if you send fast guy and fat guy it's 8 seconds right?
<.silver> yeeeeehaaawwww!!
<.silver> uh
<.silver> hold on, have to go back to that, then
<.Leo> and if you send fast guy and grandpa it's 12 seconds right?
<.silver> yes
<.silver> and yes
<.Leo> but what if you send fat guy and grandpa?
<.silver> hey! you're not supposed to be helping me!
<.silver> then it's 12 seconds
<.Leo> but the other 8 seconds go POOF
<.silver> and then one of them has to bring the lantern back
<.Leo> you lose time in other parts
<.silver> hrm
<.Leo> look i'm not telling you that's what you're doing
<.Leo> I"m giving you a bloody example
<.Leo> :-D
<.silver> mmhmm
<.silver> :-P
<.silver> hold on. i want to try this sheep wolf cabbage or whatever one first. it looks easier
<.silver> lol
<.silver> less factors
<.silver> even though logically
<.silver> i know it won't be
<.silver> and the problem is not the factors
<.silver> but the way of thinking
<.Leo> and NO if the sheep is IN the wolf it doesn't count...
<.Leo> think inside the box, outside the stomach
<.silver> lol
<.silver> see! you too can think creatively!
<.silver> *applauds*
<.Leo> i always do
<.Leo> but logic is different
<.Leo> you can't do that
<.silver> pfft
<.silver> i wonder if i get to watch the wolf eat the sheep if i do this wrong?
<.silver> *tries it*
<.silver> YES!!!!
<.silver> ha ha ha!
<.Leo> tisk tisk tisk
<.silver> and....it sounds a lot like this guy's saying "fuck" when something gets eaten
<.silver> it's pretty funny
<.Leo> bad sil
<.silver> lol
<.Leo> bad bad bad
<.silver> hee
<.silver> woooo!
<.silver> i got the sheep wolf cabbage one!
<.silver> lol
<.Leo> word
<.Leo> that one's like my fave
<.silver> heh
<.Leo> I solved it when Iwas just a whee lil' lad
<.silver> heh
<.silver> i.e. "you're a dolt, silver...you're freaking 25 years old and that took you what, 7 minutes? jesus"
<.silver> :-P
<.Leo> yeah but my dad has an MS in math, like I was spoonfed logic (I HATE math)
<.silver> bleh math
<.silver> (sorry, i was away from the puter)
<.silver> (cell phone rang)
<.silver> all right...on to game 2
<.Leo> 2 is the hardest
<.silver> hm
<.Leo> well.. for me
<.silver> lmao!
<.silver> he ate the missionary!
<.silver> *g*
<.silver> i find that highly entertaining
<.Leo> what did you think they meant by cannibals?
<.Leo> hehe
<.silver> heh
<.silver> yeah, i knew they'd eat 'em,...i just wasn't expecting it at that point
<.silver> i didn't think they could eat them in the boat
<.Leo> oh totally
<.Leo> well I didn't know it either
<.silver> heh
<.silver> hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
<.Leo> it took quite a few missionaries for me to get that done
<.Leo> yeah it's pretty tricky
<.silver> *tries contemplating inside the box*
<.Leo> wohoo!
<.silver> lol
<.silver> though it would still be cool if we could just knock off the missionaries, then the cannibals could just have a bonfire and dance around and shit
<.silver> i'd play that game
<.silver> *innocent face*
<.Leo> just beat it already...
<.silver> why do all these people gotta get across the lake, anyway? i mean...haven't they ever heard of bridges? why can't they send a communiqu� back to the mission asking for architects?
<.silver> i mean crap. it's not like it's much of a lake anyway. they could pole vault
<.silver> with the oar
<.Leo> grrr
<.Leo> just beat it
<.Leo> beat it
<.Leo> how does the MJ song go?
<.silver> or maybe if one of the fucking missionaries had a CELL phone, he could order some food for the damn cannibals, and they could eat, and not be hungry, and they wouldn't eat the missionaries
<.silver> see
<.silver> problem solved
<.silver> beat it
<.silver> beat it
<.silver> no one wants to be defeated
<.silver> show them how funky
<.silver> strong is their fight
<.silver> it doesn't matter
<.silver> who's wrong or right
<.silver> just beat it
<.Leo> that's enough
<.Leo> thanks though...
<.silver> lol
<.Leo> ;-)
<.silver> so i'm supposed to have the cannibals show the missionaries how funky they are?
<.silver> ;-)
<.Leo> yeah....
<.silver> *imagines one of the cannibals in a sparkly glove and a red and black leather jacket*
<.silver> <.cannibal> *moonwalks*
<.silver> <.cannibal> Hee Hee! Oww!
<.silver> <.cannibal> *grabs crotch*
<.silver> heh...i have this interesting situation where i've got one cannibal and one missionary on each side, and one of each in the boat. and they're just floating there indecisively, b/c i'm not sure where else to go yet.
<.silver> hmmmmmmmm
<.silver> I got it!
<.Leo> woohoo!
<.Leo> :-D
<.silver> and i got a nice big green Bravo for my efforts
<.silver> heh
<.Leo> mad props
<.silver> it's like....so stupid. you finish it and you're like "duh"
<.silver> like, "that was the answer the whole time, why didn't I see it before?"
<.silver> okay, let's see if i can do this next one, now that i'm half in, and half out of the box
<.silver> or...at least 60/40
<.silver> or maybe 80/20
<.Leo> hehe
<.Leo> be on the box!
<.silver> or maybe i'm just dangling a toe in, testing the waters
<.silver> heh
<.Leo> that's how you do it
<.silver> on it?
<.Leo> see if you're walking on the edges of the box
<.Leo> you're neither in or out
<.silver> heh
<.Leo> it's the best perspective
<.silver> that's kinda beautiful
<.Leo> thank you, thank you
<.silver> lol
<.silver> all right, all right
<.silver> back to the freaking family
<.silver> dumbasses
<.silver> they're all stupid looking anyway
<.Leo> I am the last Critical Tester poet...
<.silver> i should kill them all
<.Leo> yeah
<.Leo> fo real
<.silver> remove them from the cyber-gene pool
<.Leo> oh man
<.silver> eh?
<.Leo> now I want to see cocktail
<.silver> why?
<.silver> bleh tom cruise, bleh
<.silver> *projectile vomits*
<.Leo> cause of my "I am the last Critical Tester poet..." line
<.silver> ah
<.silver> sorry about the puke. that�s my automatic response whenever I think of Tom Cruise.
<.silver> oh i think i might get th is
<.silver> this
<.silver> oh crap. i'm off by a second
<.silver> but still, that's one more than i had before
<.Leo> what's the strategy?
<.Leo> (yes, one would help)
<.silver> i was thinking about what you said about the grandfather and the old man. about how if they go over together the guy's 8 seconds are gone. saving time, etc. my problem with it was that someone had to come back over with the lamp...but it doesn't necessarily have to be one of THEM...so now i'm playing around with that a bit. in this last one, i had the 3 second guy go over with the mother, then the guy came back, then grandpa and dad went over, and kid came back for 1 second kid. but there wasn't enough time. so i think i'm starting to get an inkling...but i'm not there yet
<.Leo> have the one second guy do more work, but not all of it...
<.Leo> that's the key i think
<.Leo> teamwork ;-)
<.silver> ya
<.Leo> brb
<.silver> kk
<.Leo> back
<.silver> wb
<.Leo> :-D
<.Leo> killed the family yet?
<.silver> heh
<.silver> no
<.silver> i just start again as soon as i realize i've got it wrong
<.Leo> ah
<.silver> grrr.
<.silver> i know it's here somewhere
<.Leo> hehe
<.silver> but i keep ending up with like, 1 second too much
<.silver> *takes an axe to the log, then to the family*
<.Leo> think about where you're loosing the time
<.silver> i'm losing time in all the trips back
<.Leo> so how can you cut down?
<.silver> no...i'm really losing time just because i don't know the answer
<.silver> i mean...i'll get it
<.silver> it'll just take me more reasoning it out
<.silver> *cuts down by cutting up the grandfather*
<.Leo> haha
<.Leo> down... not up
<.silver> heh
<.silver> i love the way, too...this lamp's only supposed to last for 30 seconds. yet it burns just fine all this time i'm sitting here debating ;-)
<.silver> little fucker
<.Leo> the world of logic only applies to it's application
<.Leo> if that makes sense
<.Leo> so since non-crossing time is not a factor it's not part of the application and thus the rules do not apply
<.silver> ooh wait
<.silver> i may have it this time
<.silver> lol
<.Leo> woohooo!
<.silver> DAMN it all to hell@!
<.silver> !!
<.silver> lol
<.Leo> ok what did you do last time?
<.Leo> step by step
<.silver> can i just leave the petulant little brother on the wrong side? if we leave him behind, the rest of the family can make it
<.silver> lol
<.silver> um....let's see if i remember.
<.Leo> well... what did you start with?
<.silver> i sent the mom and one of the fast kids with her. think it was the 1 second guy. then i sent him back over with the lamp. then he and 3 second kid went over, and 1second kid returned. then gramps and dad went over, using the 12 seconds, freeing up the 8. this is where i got excited. then 3 second kid came back, and i realized there wasn't enough time.
<.Leo> were do you thinhk you could have saved time?
<.silver> pushing grandpa off the log
<.Leo> you and your ageism
<.silver> well...you and your....your....stupidism
<.silver> :-P
<.silver> it only makes sense. he's the one who takes up all of their time
<.silver> damnit. still one second over.
<.silver> damn you! i was supposed to go to bed like, 2 hours ago!
<.silver> lol
<.Leo> send the two fast kids over first
<.Leo> it'll save you two seconds in the long run
<.silver> hm
<.silver> hm
<.silver> heh
<.silver> that was it
<.silver> that was the key
<.silver> goddamnit
<.silver> * shakes fist at herself for not realizing it sooner *