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NICKI CHAPMAN'S CV reads like a who's who of pop music: she's worked with David Bowie, Take That, The Spice Girls and, of course, helped pick Popstars' Hear'Say. Now creative director at svengali Simon Fuller's company, 19, she judges Pop Idol on Carlton which has been whittled down to the last ten contestants. Alongside Simon, she will co- manage whoever the public foists upon us.

Do you find yourself trying to spot potential stars when out?
No. I'm not that cynical. When you go out, people do catch your eye but you don't tend to weigh them up.

How does the search for a Pop Idol differ from Popstars?
With Popstars we only saw about 1,200 people, now we've seen some 10,000 so there's a huge difference in numbers. The biggest criticism we've had for Popstars is people didn't know it was happening. Pop Idol has made a bigger splash. When you see more people, the talent will be better, but it will also be worse. It's a numbers game.

Give us an example of someone who has 'it' and someone who doesn't...
Not every superstar has a great voice but they always have something else that makes them a star. What has made Madonna continue for so many years? What was the difference between Gary Barlow and Robbie Williams? Gary has an amazing voice, is a brilliant songwriter and a very successful producer, whereas Robbie has
continued to be a pop idol.

Pleased with Hear'Say? Yes - fingers crossed for next year for them. The proof in the pudding is seeing how people develop after the TV series. I went to see them at Wembley, five months after the public met them and there I was with 11,000 screaming kids thinking how far they'd come.

Isn't it just five pretty people and a backing tape?
No it's not. With Popstars, admittedly, the music was rushed. I worked with Simon when we were doing S Club 7 and that took about a year and a half to put together as did the music. A lot of time and effort goes into it - this is how the industry has worked for decades.

You think The Monkees were the first boyband.
Yes. And manufactured isn't a bad word. Look at Motown - it put artists together and put them with fantastic songwriters. Motown still stands head and shoulders above a lot of the music that's being produced today.

After two failures, should Darius give up?
No - why shatter his dream? I think he was extremely brave to do Pop Idol. I don't know whether I would have done it if I were him. I think he did learn his lesson. I often criticise him on TV but he is a nice guy and he's only 21. People think he's older. The moment he becomes Darius, he'll do very well.

Was the image change a bit cynical?
When you've gone through what he did with Popstars - the humiliation and how he took it... He took it on the chin and admitted he got it wrong looking like a Greek waiter or whatever he said.

Who are you and Simon looking forward to managing?
I can't give you names as it has to be down to the public. But, yes, we do have favourites.

If your ten had 'it', wouldn't they have already made it?
Not necessarily. There are loads of talented people out there who haven't been discovered. They haven't been in the right place at the right time. Record companies take very few people on these days because it costs so much to launch a new artist. There are loads of amazing people out there we haven't heard of.

How well do you get on with the other judges?
Well, but we argue more off camera. It does continue after we come off. We've all had a pop: I told Simon Cowell that he was too harsh. Dr Fox and Simon have been the most controversial as Foxy called him a pantomime dame. We all have our opinions... that's not a bad thing Mr Cowell is outrageous.

Is he nastier than Nigel?
[laughs] Yes, much nastier. He is harsh but he says what he believes and it is quite a hard industry. He told William that he was average and he won by a mile... I laugh and find it funny because he is so outrageous.

Is there a sado-masochistic element in us that makes us enjoy those bits?
I don't enjoy him putting people down. His comments are what he believes at the time and at least he's honest. And when they give it back, he takes it. If you can give it, learn to take it and he has.

Does weight matter?
With Claire [Freeland from Popstars] there was a guy called Joe from Northern Ireland who, without going into politics, lost his brother. He was murdered. He and Claire were kicked off together and everyone felt sorry for Claire because of her size but no-one sympathised with him because he looked normal. She was a sensational girl
but wasn't right for my band ... she wouldn't have thanked me for putting her in it. She released her own single and it went to No.72 - the people were for her but when it came to buying her record, no-one put their hands in their pockets.

And Rick?
I've never said anything about his weight. The one thing I will say is he isn't very well. I say to all of them that anyone who walks into an audition should know the state of their health. To do this job they have to be fit and healthy - the hours we work and schedules are gruelling. I'm not going to tell Rick to lose weight - it's not my job
to but, equally, I don't think people should vote for him just because he is larger. If Rick is your idol and he lives up to that dream, then vote for him - but don't patronise him.

Is there anyone you've been asked to manage, said no and regretted it?
No. But I have turned down the opportunity to work with people. I was asked to do the publicity for 5ive and turned it down as I didn't want to work with them. They weren't right for me. At the time, I was looking after the Spice Girls and didn't want to have to deal with the attitude 5ive had. Having said that, I thought they were a great band.

Who've you taken the most pleasure out of working with?
Spice Girls, Take That and Charlotte Church. My career has been amazing. I've worked with David Bowie, Annie Lennox, Samantha Mumba, Kylie Minogue, M People - I've been very privileged and very respectful. Some I've helped break, some I've prolonged their careers. David Bowie is a legend - he didn't need Nicki Chapman. He is
already an idol.

Is there a Bowie among the final ten in Pop Idol?
Who knows? But it would be nice.

What's the most rock'n'roll thing you've done?
I don't smoke but I do drink a little: I've a soft spot for vodka and Red Bull. It's my downfall but no, I'm not a boozer. I travel first class I suppose. I have been in some rock'n'roll situations and have been out on the town when some amazing things have
happened but I can't spill the beans.

And they were all in the past?
[Laughs] Erm... mainly.