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Here's a site to visit, but it's not what you might expect exactly: http://www.thissitegotmelaid.com/
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Chris:
SPECIAL REPORT: Mystery teaches Sex Magic in Europe!
Beginning January 3, Mystery will conduct his 3 night Sex Magic workshop in
Belgrade, Serbia for 6 lucky students.
The dates for the Belgrade workshop are Thurs Jan 3, Fri 4 and Sat 5.
For workshop details go to www.mysterymethod.com.
Due to short notice (and a festive holiday spirit), Mystery has reduced the
$600 registration fee to a special Eastern European rate with significant savings.
Sign up now by emailing Chris Powles at [email protected].
Note that there is high interest in this rare European class, so students will
be accepted on a first come, first served basis. (However, a SECOND workshop
in Greece, Romania, or elsewhere in Europe is possible the following week if
time permits and demand warrants.)
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Roland (from private email):
Do you remember when you, me, the Doc and MTL_PUA went out that night and that
blonde asked me for a light?? Something like that seems very foreign to me --
I still can't help but think she had an agenda (e.g. perhaps talking with me
because she wants to make some boyfriend of hers jealous, or simply approaching
me to meet someone else in the group, etc).
Cliff's Comment: As for that blonde that asked you for a light, I think this comes right back to your attitude and nothing else. First rule from David - Who cares what she thinks? Secondly, even if she had another agenda, if you had the right attitude and were fun and interesting with her, she'd probably forget all about that other guy that (probably doesn't exist) you mention because she was enjoying herself so much talking with you. If you just concentrated on having fun with her, not trying to pick her up, you would have gotten her. She was the aggressor that night and would have closed you. It all comes down to your attitude -- since you've met him, do you think David got women based on his looks?
Roland:
As far as David's philosophy of "who cares what she thinks" that's
all well and good for most situations, but I don't want to be a part of any
chick's agenda or
be used in any way -- and don't want to even sarge her, because while you are
sarging her, she's getting her agenda fulfilled, and there is no guarantee she'll
take to your SSing all the while she's getting what she wants...
Cliff's Comment:
I think you were completely off base with that chick. I don't think she had
a hidden agenda and if you had thought differently about it, I bet you'd have
closed the deal with her that night. I think you need to get the idea that a
woman has a hidden agenda out of your own head - whether she has one or not
is totally irrelevant. If you treat her like she does (and, after all, you can't
be sure that she does so you aren't giving her the benefit of the doubt) of
course you will blow it. Just think about it the other way -- imagine if you
had in your mind (and truly believed it, which I know is the hard part) that
this chick is attracted to you, that's she's interested in you, etc. and those
were the thoughts going through your mind instead of "What game is she
playing?" "What does she really want?" etc. which are more likely
wrong anyway).
A friend of mine recently separated from his wife after 13 years and he's been
getting laid like crazy -- he just jokes around with everyone and is very forward
with women (in a joking kind of way) and he's been doing incredible. I estimate
he's been getting laid 4 times a week and would be every night if not for the
few other things he does some nights. And he really has no techniques - just
an attitude of having fun with everyone he meets.
As well, just by being friendly he's constantly being fixed up with HB's. Just
because a woman or a man may be 65 years old and of no direct interest to you,
surprise surprise they've got a stunning grand daughter that they'd love to
introduce to someone with a great sense of humour that was nice to them for
no reason at all.
You are your own worst enemy. I am not saying I am much better but I think I at least recognize my shortcomings. When you finally say to yourself, "The buck stops here" and stop running to different locations I think you will be on the road to really solving this thing. The grass is not greener elsewhere. I used to think that about Montreal - but I keep hearing how this is pussy heaven from so many different guys I realize that it's not them, it's me that hasn't been doing the right things to take advantage of what is right under my nose. I think we all need to work on being as charming, outgoing, and fun as possible and that alone is going to bring all sorts of good things into your life, including a lot of women (or a very a very special one).
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Brother Kermit:
Brother Kermit is currently compiling information to write up a "Rules
of Seduction" booklet. He asks that all Master Seducers and Seducers-in-Training
please writing to him at: [email protected] Re: Rules of Seduction with
the following information. What are the 3 most important rules (or base philosophies)
that you follow as a seducer? Although there are definitely more than just three,
write in the three that are most significant to you, with a very brief explanation.
For example:
Rule of Inequality
Men and women are not equal. As human beings both genders deserve equal treatment
and equal rights under the law, but men and women are not equal.
For that matter, no two women are equal, and no two men are equal.
Men and women have differences that go beyond the obvious biological ones (genitals).
They communicate and process information differently. One is not better than
the other; they are simply different, and a Master Seducer MUST acknowledge
this. The Master Seducer makes it a point to understand, not necessarily agree
with the way women communicate. A man who communicates to women the way he would
communicate to a man will usually fail in seduction attempts. A Master Seducer
learns how women process information, and communicates with women on their level.
A polish proverb stated "Men fall in love with their eyes, a woman with
her ears".
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Ross:
(Commenting on: "(Commenting on: "This is about keeping a woman, not
getting one. I've been thinking about this lately and here are my thoughts:
For the women I date I am like a drug. As a drug, I am probably most like heroin;
where as, I think most guys are more like cigarettes or, even worse, the nicotine
patch."):
Actually, it's an inaccurate idea about addiction. With a true addiction, one needs MORE of the substance to achieve the first effects, but in fact, no matter how much one adds, the effect continues to DIMINISH. Addiction is terribly destructive as the addict's complete personality is subsumed into getting the next fix. I don't think this is a very healthy model for anyone to want to follow. Giving people wonderful, high experiences that leave them feeling more powerful and happier in general and letting them know they must also give back to and please you to get more...that is NOT addiction. That is more like a natural monopoly.
(Commenting on: "Bounced Czech... I was doing my usual routine at the gym where I noticed this HB... kind of a blonde Julia Roberts... and found it surprisingly easy to converse with her (given the typical standoffishness of the Washington DC crowd). It turns out she is from the Czech republic, not long in this country. We had quite a long chat which culminated in my getting her phone number. So, we make a date to see a movie and have dinner. Well, we got to the theatre early so had a sandwich at a nearby stand."):
Let us stop, right here. One reason I am against "dates" in general (not a hard and fast always rule, but in general) is that it triggers all of her old ideas, limits, emotions, behaviors and beliefs wrapped around her previous experiences. So it is hard to get a "clean slate" and get new responses from someone that aren't contaminated with a lot of crap.
(Commenting on: "(There I did some connection patterns and time distortion and she seemed to be taking it all well. She kept bringing the conversation over to sex... how her parents gave her condoms at 14 and encouraged her to experiment with her boyfriends (remind me to make travel plans to Czechoslovakia). Anyway, we got to the theatre and she sat down next to me and shivered. I put an arm around her and she pulled away and said, "You are a player and a seducer!""):
"YOU'RE A DISTRUSTER AND ACCUSER!"...that is a good proper response. Her frame is "Prove yourself to me! Prove you are harmless and will not hurt me!"
(Commenting on: "(I wasn't quite sure how to react to that... so my gut instinct was to put on the hurt puppy dog look and she got all apologetic and said, "Sorry that was mean of me to say that... in my home country, the women go after the men. The men are not aggressive.""):
You see? She is trying to filter you through WHAT SHE KNOWS. You could try identifying her processing through a question, "Do you always filter people through what you already know without even giving them a chance to show you who they REALLY are?" Then get a little quiet and hurt. Maybe even get up, go to the concession stand...get a soda...make her warm up to you.
(Commenting on: "(Later, she put her leg up against mine and her shoulder against mine. At this point, I'm lost, not sure what my next move should be. Anyway, the movie is playing and she reaches over and puts a gummy bear in my mouth. I do the same. We're watching the movie, sharing a soda, taking turns sipping through the straw... and I'm thinking okay, maybe this was only a test... but did I pass? Later, we're she decides she's tired and cancels our original dinner plan. We're talking and she says she was hurt by the breakup of her last relationship and wants to take things slowly. So I reply, I understand... and five months from now, when we're totally comfortable with each other, you'll feel so safe and connected with me... and at that point you'll look back at tonight as being the start of it all. Her reply, "Why do you try to sell yourself so hard?""):
"Because YOU keep buying...buying into your limitations and hurts from
the past. It's like the past is a HUGE pair of glasses for you and that's all
you can see through or see yourself ever having? Why don't you just TAKE THOSE
OFF (reach over and mime taking off a pair of glasses and throwing them away)
and see ME...see this moment NOW...see who I am instead of burying me with something
I had NOTHING to do with!" Then get up and leave again...if she comes after
you, kiss her passionately.
You must show her that you are NOT going to keep "proving" you are
harmless and "won't hurt her"....because some ass hurt her doesn't
mean YOU are going to cut off your balls and step into the role of her comforter,
counselor and wet-nurse (though she MIGHT enjoy sucking on something you have
LATER).
Show her SHE is the one who is selling..selling herself, short.
(Commenting on: "(D-OHH !!! Obviously, my SS is backfiring. Or maybe her brain translating my English into her native Czech caused the patterns to lose their punch? The evening ended without so much as a kiss or a handshake... and she told me she was discussing me with her gurlfriend.."):
So, you can't trust your own experience or make up your own mind? Goodbye..I do not spend time with CHILDREN.
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Mystery: (Commenting on: "(Shyness is easy to overcome when you realize that women really aren't scary. That's all it is."):
I'm dumbfounded how people advise the shy to INTELLECTUALIZE their fears.
We KNOW we are safe when looking out of the window of a tall building (well,
RELATIVELY safe, but that's another story) though we STILL feel the fear. It
will NOT go away just by TALKING to the person. It will NOT go away just my
giving INTELLECTUALIZED REASONS why it's safe. Sure the glass is thick and the
building sturdy. Sure you are safe and sound ... but! You will STILL feel scared.
Another example: a roller coaster. Sure the ride is safe. Sure you can come
up with all the REASONS why you won't get hurt.
You could even see a 7 year old kid ride before you. BUT you STILL feel the
fear. So we KNOW that TALKING about it, reasoning it out, INTELLECTUALIZING
the crap out of it will NOT make you less scared. What have we learned then?
Well, for one thing, we know what WON'T help so we can save the step. There
is ONE way that works 100% of the time: REPETITION. Were you scared to drive?
And it took many trips to finally internalize the experience right? And now
you drive and have done so so many times you can think of other things while
driving, like listening to the radio, singing out loud, talking to passengers
or the phone, etc. You aren't afraid to get in the car anymore. Why? REPETITION.
Scuba diving must be exhilarating. But do you think an underwater welder even
THINKS about the scuba part of his job now? I don't think so. What about a pilot?
You think the commercial pilots get scared landing a plane? They don't become
COMMERCIAL pilots until they have burned the nervousness out of themselves with
repetition. So we know that THINKING and REASONING ...
DOESN'T work. And we now know what DOES work: REPETITION. So, get your sorry
ass out there and REPEAT REPEAT REPEAT. Yes, it's scary. You get nervous. We
have addressed that. And NO, it won't get easier by just THINKING it will. You
have to get EXPERIENCE. So MUCH experience (try 48 approaches a week for 6 months
- seriously) that by the end of your TRAINING, you'll be like me: able to approach
a group of people and actually be a cool guy. Not all locked up in your own
fear. So ... we now KNOW that repetition is the answer ... and we get experience
by getting out there and TRYING. So there is no longer anything more to INTELLECTUALIZE.
You have now set your solution before you. Either you DECIDE to go through the
fear so many times that it FINALLY diminishes to acceptable levels (THAT is
called EXPERIENCE) or you DON'T. Your call, bud. Shit or get off the pot. If
you are like me and had enough of lonely nights, you will take the bull by the
horns and solve the problem the ONLY WAY you can ... by getting your ass out
of your fucking house and bombing a good thousand times. If you come up with
excuses like, "but I'm scared" or "I'm too busy", well,
you are effectively saying, "I haven't had enough lonely nights".
Natural Selection will weed your genes the fuck out of existence thanks to your
DECISION to not solve the problem. Suck it up, losers, cause I tell ya, it's
worth the struggle. If you don't think so, give up the game and be content to
masturbate away your need for women.
If, at the end of my rant, you AGREE with me but still don't set the schedule
to go out 4 or 5 nights a week by yourself, you really aren't that bright. You
KNOW you need experience to get competence to gain confidence but aren't willing
to start getting experience. You KNOW you can't jump steps and just by talking
to get confidence. Any of that is a trick of the mind and won't be there to
help you when the shit hits the fan. It's one thing to ACT like you know what
you are doing, but it's no replacement for actually KNOWING. Wanna get confident
flying a plane? Reading a book and then acting brave and listening to hypnotists
TALK you into confidence is a crock of shit. And this comes from a guy who DOES
HYPNOSIS. You have to INTERNALIZE the EXPERIENCE. Be scared. It's OK. Is that
what you need?
Someone to say, "It's OK to be scared ... but you STILL have to solve the
problem." If that helps great, now get the fuck out there. If only you
would let GO of your delusion that you can get confidence BEFORE experience.
I'm telling you, you CANT! Ever! That is why Sex Magic is a 3 day IN FIELD workshop
and not a 3 day in class SEMINAR. The difference?
Getting EXPERIENCE.
So, shit or get off the pot, brothers. If little Britney Spears had the guts
to get in front of thousands, you can approach women. It's a decision you have
to make RIGHT NOW: "am I a loser or not."
(Commenting on: "The thing with shyness is in getting the person to see
the truth and to realize that girls aren't scary. Think about it....if you actually
just SIT in a bar and LOOK at a girl, they get scared : ) Try it!
Go to a bar, order a drink, and sit at the far end of the bar. Doesn't matter
what you look like, just sit there and put on a warm, friendly smile, nothing
spectacular, and LOOK AT THEM. When they (if they) look at you back, just maintain
your friendly smile and keep looking at them. See how long it takes for them
to look away in TOTAL SHYNESS! You'll be amazed.
It's THEM who are shy, not you!! That's the lesson that you have to teach shy
people."):
Here the advice is INTELLECTUALIZED. We KNOW we don't have a REASON to be scared,
yet it still happens. The solution is not to accumulate longer lists of REASONS,
but to get out there so much that the feeling wears off over successive experiences.
Wanna get rid of the fear of roller coasters?
Decide to ride 500 of them. That'll do it. Your body will get so USED to them
that it becomes NORMAL. My cat used to be afraid of car rides. Now he sleeps
in the car. Think of THAT!
(Commenting on Stephane's comment on: (Commenting on Nathan's comment from
private email: "I will be visiting Montreal next year, so maybe we can
catch up sometime and you can demonstrate your techniques on myself to see if
we can get results."):
It's not a question of 'IF' with me. When someone comes in to see me for a consultation,
I never give up. If it takes one hour or 100 hours, you're gonna sit down and
you're gonna change (or die while I'm trying)."):
A person is gonna SIT DOWN and CHANGE? Please! The WOMEN problem is far too important to mess around with TRICKING your brain to FEEL confident. Burn the shit out of the feeling with REPETITION. I DID! And if I could do it, so can you. I was SUPER SHY! Seriously. "DECIDE" or ... don't you want the lifestyle BAD ENOUGH?
(Commenting on: "Especially for something as stupid as shyness! Send me your worst clients, I dare all of you. Find the most shy person you can think of and bring him to me."):
OR: take the newbie challenge. 48 approaches a week for 6 months. At the end of that time, THEN you will understand how the shit we write about here APPLIES to the real world.
(Commenting on: "I'll get him talking to girls and having fun if it kills me."):
Mere words will NEVER take the place of EXPERIENCE. Which CONFIDENCE do you
think is more USEFUL? A confidence WITHOUT competence or MY CONFIDENCE?
Seriously? Who do you think will clean house? Here's a hint, only one of the
two answers is correct. I'll SHOW you LIVE. Ask anyone who has met me in person.
AND guess what? It's LEARNED. If you ever wonder if someone is a natural, the
answer is ... HE'S NOT. But the guys who are really good at the game aren't
good because they hypnotized the fear out of their head (sorry, it's bullshit,
gentlemen). They are good because they FOUGHT the fear. They had it in them
to keep FIGHTING because the rewards were worth it. And then looking back they
realized, they won the war because of hundreds of little daily battles.
(Commenting on: "It usually only takes me a couple of minutes anyway. I'm good with shyness because it's so easy. You guys are thinking it's hard, but it's one of the easiest things in the world to get over. So come. This is how I advertise. I dare you to come in : ) heheh"):
I suppose given the choices, 1) work hard learning 100's of distinctions that apply to real world situations in an INFIELD WORKSHOP with an EXPERIENCED seducer by approaching tons of hot girls over three days or 2) listening to a guy "hypnotize" your fear away FOR YOU in only a couple minutes ... I'd choose the easy way way out. But maybe you should ask yourself a question: if it's too good to be true, is it?
(Commenting on: "Zvi: I've reached a point that I no longer think in terms of "techniques". Yes, there are things that I happen to do with practically every women, since I've learned from experience that it works, but I don't think of it as a technique. It's like my learning to dance. I've learned many techniques and I worked hard on my form, but on the dance floor there are no techniques. You go with what you feel; the techniques are already integrated and have become organic."):
Yes, this makes a great deal of sense. My METHOD is actually the WRITTEN technique of what I do without thinking about it. I first do what WORKS and THEN I write about it. That's why the workshop idea will always be better than the book Sex Magic I'm writing. Of course, since the price is a big difference too, you have to get what you can afford. I'll likely discount the price of the book if people want to sign up for the workshop after reading it. (No date of completion for book yet, sorry).
(Commenting on: "Leo: (Commenting on: "Mystery: A good opener so
you can fall into these convo threads would be good. The whole point of the
opener is to start in on a group and convey that you approached for the CHAT
and nothing more. "Looks like the party's over here. : ) I'm curious, have
you seen the movie Poltergeist? Do you think it was based on reality or all
fiction?" You've come to entertain yourself. Not to pickup the girl...
WHAT TIME IS IT is not an opener. It's a Pick Up line. And, therefore ... so
is THOMAS. Boy, can I rant."):
I think that any artificial opener is a pick up line. Actually, whatever you
say, I don't think that any girl would think that you just approached for the
"chat", unless you're a gay or just weird. They know *exactly* why
you are talking to them. I mean why the hell would anyone come to a club to
ask girl for her opinions about Poltergeist? Yeah right, "just to chat"."):
See me work a room. The girls don't know which girl I'm with is my GF.
That MYSTERY is valuable to build curiousity. You see, that's the power of NEG
THEORY. A guy would NOT do a NEG on a girl if he LIKED her. This really throws
the girl off the scent. It's like, "the guy approached my group but doesn't
seem to be hitting on me." This is a great position to build her curiousity.
(Commenting on: "I think the best way is to behave is like if you already know them. Girls still would know *why* you approach them, but at least it's more natural and creates this funny assumption that you already know each other."):
I prefer having her wonder if you are there for your own entertainment or to hit on someone ... and confuse her even more by NOT hitting on her until AFTER she is hitting on you. However, the "already know them" thing is good in that you can act like you know each other for rapport building. Not the cheesy "I think we met before" but just behaving as if you'd already fucked her so you don't have to hit on her. It's all a part of building rapport.
(Commenting on: "That you're not a stranger with pretentious "openers".
Just start talking as if you would do it with your old friend or relative.
"So what's new?""):
Ouch. dude, what's your score in the game so far? Are you good or are you just talking out of your ass? These comments aren't jiving with my world for some reason. "So what's new" does NOT build curiosity. Are you approaching TENS? In GROUPS? With THAT?
(Commenting on: "The answer can also instantly indicate if you are wasting your time or not. Most girls will say "Not much" with different variations."):
And this segues to a conversation that builds fascination?
(Commenting on: "Some will then ask "What's new with you?" which means she accepts the game and actually is willing to talk to you."):
Ouch. Consider for a moment that some guys REALLY have a good game plan.
This "Hi, how are you, fine, thank you, how are you" shit is quite
boring. Are you assuming you are approaching 1:1 or in groups? Sorry bro, it
stinks. BUT ... it's better than staying home and masturbating, so word up.
(Commenting on: "It also shifts the whole situation instantly: now SHE is actually asking you questions (she "approaches" you). Then you can lead the convo anywhere you want (I just came from Amsterdam, I just watched Poltergeist again, etc.) Some girls will say "just chilling out/having fun/looking for my friend/bored," etc. which can also help you develop the convo into desired direction. Some will actually start telling you what's new. She actually will allow you into her world right away."):
Problem with this sad false start (not a good OPENER) is that she judges you based on your LOOK. Not rewarding enough for me.
(Commenting on: "And some will let you understand that you are wasting your time just by the way they say "not much" or "nothing". Fast and easy. (BTW, more openers of this kind are welcome.)"):
See? She is qualifying you before you've had a chance to convey the 5 characteristics
of an alphamale. Sorry, dude, but your methods are AFC.
You really gotta see the PRO's like Craig or Sin work their magic. You'd be
blown away.
(Commenting on: "Another great opener is actually your excellent suggestion of giving girls a high-five. It's not only funny and assumes that you know each other, but also assumes everything that high-five conveys (that you have a joint "project", or have just agreed on something, or cracked a good joke, etc.)"):
Yeah, that's a Craig move. Love it!
(Commenting on: "Assman: (Commenting on: "Flying Dutchman's Panama
Beach televised PU and follow-up interview idea): I don't think spring break
cities/events are the best places for your taped pickups. The girls at these
places are attention hungry and love to tease, they are not there for sex. Don't
get fooled by MTV into thinking Panama Beach during spring break is one long
sex orgy. Also the sex ratio is like 5 to 1 in the men's favor.
You do not have the element of surprise, girls are hit on constantly, and expect
it, although much of it is "hey baby, how you doin" and "show
me your tits" so a PUA can make an impression, with the proper expert approach.
Panama Beach is full of AFC's, just check out http://www.salon.com/it/feature/1999/03/11feature.html
most of these guys have no clue how to pickup. A high percentage of the girls
at these spring break events seem to be exhibitionists, or the atmosphere causes
them to be more uninhibited. They will pose for pictures with your arm around
them, their tits exposed or your tongue in their mouth, so if you want easy
KINO, spring break can work. My point is that you should look for more ordinary
everyday beach situations to film, not "events".
(Commenting on: "NightLight9:Kiss Openers This the opener where I just
walk up and kiss the girl with no verbals."): Ahh, my favorite topic, -Aggressive
openers- Ass grabbing, breast fondling, the much discussed Kiss openers here
on Cliff's list, and the jewel in the crown of shock openings, the crotch grab.
Total non-verbal Kino openers are the mark of the beast, you gotta be demon
possessed to try them, I have yet to be exorcised of this demonic urge to grab
those lovely young things. For those who are scared of the tactic (the smart
among you) you should use some words before or during the "hit" as
this will make you appear less of a rapist. You can fool around with Ross Jeffries
crash and burn experiments, you can have fun and test countless variants of
the Mystery method, but never be cavalier with Assman antics, be prepared to
pacify the women you will upset, it can be as simple as saying "sorry,
I lost my balance, I was in a car accident 2 days ago, and my knees are still
wobbly" - this is best for those who are most offended, deny that you grabbed
her on purpose. For the ones who are shocked but not angry, you can stay with
the program, launch into a hypno induction, an SS pattern, ask her if she believes
in 'Mystic Energy' emanating from her body with the power to heal (while waving
your hands around her ass, directing the flow of her aura) - as Mystery might
do, or be cocky and funny like Sisonpyh. Doesn't much matter, just make sure
you're prepared, never stand there silently, take control and direct her emotions.
Someone asked who do these direct approaches work best on? Older, younger, etc.?
In my experience, you can never tell who it will work on, some go ballistic,
while some trance out on contact, you can't judge by age, or by perceived character/personality
or any other measure. With aggressive kino openers, be prepared to be surprised.
I was at a hotel this past weekend to sarge in the hotel bar, it was near empty,
but the ballroom was hosting a singles dance for older professionals 40-50 year
olds (some even older), not my type, but yet some of these women were well preserved
and dressed to the nines. I decided to prey on the little lambs milling about
the corridors and lobby. I wasn't too particular, my first and only, had a tired
run down face, but large c cups and smooth long legs propelled me. She's about
5'6", I towered over her, rubbed her ass while my other hand controlled
her shoulder, my face was three inches from hers, I looked intensely into her
eyes, smiled and said, you're perrrrfect... you're mine, I'm going to take you
to the outer limits of cerebral excitation, move you into states of satisfaction
unknown, and then....show you the door to divine insights and lay on your head
a crown of glory. - Then I kissed this 40 something and led her to a booth in
the bar, yapping more B.S. all the way, there I indulged in a full course of
kino, got her e-mail and left for greener pastures. Sometimes, it's real easy."):
You know, at FIRST I thought, "this guy's AFC" but you know what? This is some good shit. This is PRO stuff though, not for the newbies. This stuff isn't EASY just cause it's bold. I like it. I think I'll try this great shit out and report back on the results. Of course, you have to do this on a sexually mature girl.
(Commenting on: "Dwacon (Seasons Greetings -- hope at least some of you got to stuff a stocking! <http://www.dwacon.com/xmas/MerryChristmas.html):> Bounced Czech... I was doing my usual routine at the gym where I noticed this HB... kind of a blonde Julia Roberts... and found it surprisingly easy to converse with her (given the typical standoffishness of the Washington DC crowd). It turns out she is from the Czech republic, not long in this country. We had quite a long chat which culminated in my getting her phone number. So, we make a date to see a movie and have dinner. Well, we got to the theatre early so had a sandwich at a nearby stand. There I did some connection patterns and time distortion and she seemed to be taking it all well. She kept bringing the conversation over to sex... how her parents gave her condoms at 14 and encouraged her to experiment with her boyfriends (remind me to make travel plans to Czechoslovakia). Anyway, we got to the theatre and she sat down next to me and shivered. I put an arm around her and she pulled away and said, "You are a player and a seducer!""):
And your response? "you're quite a little heartbreaker yourself I bet."
(Commenting on: "I wasn't quite sure how to react to that... so my gut
instinct was to put on the hurt puppy dog look and she got all apologetic and
said, "Sorry that was mean of me to say that... in my home country, the
women go after the men. The men are not aggressive." Later, she put her
leg up against mine and her shoulder against mine. At this point, I'm lost,
not sure what my next move should be. Anyway, the movie is playing and she reaches
over and puts a gummy bear in my mouth. I do the same. We're watching the movie,
sharing a soda, taking turns sipping through the straw... and I'm thinking okay,
maybe this was only a test... but did I pass? Later, we're she decides she's
tired and cancels our original dinner plan. We're talking and she says she was
hurt by the breakup of her last relationship and wants to take things slowly.
So I reply, I understand...
and five months from now, when we're totally comfortable with each other, you'll
feel so safe and connected with me... and at that point you'll look back at
tonight as being the start of it all. Her reply, "Why do you try to sell
yourself so hard?"
D-OHH !!!"):
Trial and error, bro. All good. You are learning what NOT to do. VALUABLE lessons.
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Formhandle:
(Commenting on Dwacon's post: There I did some connection patterns and time
distortion and she seemed to be taking it all well. She kept bringing the conversation
over to sex... how her parents gave her condoms at 14 and encouraged her to
experiment with her boyfriends."):
...and you STILL followed through with plans for the theatre? She was being very direct with you here. It was time to say "You know - my parents were the same way, I think maybe much different than a lot of people I've known who live in my area." Then suggest that maybe the theatre will be a boring idea and maybe you should rent a movie instead, get some microwave popcorn, and play some video games at your/her place... she'll get the point. Even if she doesn't, it certainly sounds more fun than a theatre where you can't do much but briefly touch and stare at a big-ass screen with 200 people around you.
(Commenting on: "(remind me to make travel plans to Czechoslovakia)."):
You had a Czech right there waiting to be taken...
(Commenting on: "Anyway, we got to the theatre..."):
Now she's wondering "Why did we come here? Is he actually going to make a move?" Then it's shit-test time...
(Commenting on: "and she sat down next to me and shivered."):
"What will he do?"
(Commenting on: "I put an arm around her and she pulled away and said, "You are a player and a seducer!""):
LOL. OK, then it's time to question that she probably doesn't REALLY feel that
way. Otherwise, she wouldn't be WITH you, right? Answer the question without
answering the question, but rather deflect her own test back at her. If she's
playing a game, she'll have to deflect the answer. If she's suggestible, she'll
merely experience dissonance and have to agree that you're not a "player
and seducer" (I'm assuming she meant it in a bad way).
If she meant it in a playful way, you might have responded with "You know,
I don't know why you think I'm a player, but there's certainly nothing wrong
with seducing someone so that both people can feel pleasure."
(Commenting on: "I wasn't quite sure how to react to that... so my gut
instinct was to put on the hurt puppy dog look and she got all apologetic and
said, "Sorry that was mean of me to say that...
in my home country, the women go after the men. The men are not aggressive.""):
Sounds like BS, really. In western cultures, men are barely aggressive ANYWHERE. And she's presupposing that just because "men are not aggressive", that when an "aggressive" one appears, he's doing something wrong. Bullshit. She's just patching up based probably on your puppy dog response. But in any case, your test was to challenge her and to simply do what you want.
(Commenting on: "Later, she put her leg up against mine and her shoulder against mine."):
Vague. Theatres suck. She had her side up against you for 90 minutes.
Theatres suck.
(Commenting on: "At this point, I'm lost, not sure what my next move should be."):
LOL - she was probably thinking almost the same thing. "Dang, why are
we in this theatre? I want this guy to take me home and give me a good rogering.
His leg and shoulders are against mine - he is so ambiguous!"
(Commenting on: "Anyway, the movie is playing and she reaches over and puts a gummy bear in my mouth. I do the same."):
She's TRYING to gauge your sexual interest level. I think she was wondering "Can he take a clue?"
(Commenting on: "We're watching the movie, sharing a soda, taking turns sipping through the straw... and I'm thinking okay, maybe this was only a test... but did I pass?"):
If you have to ask, then no you didn't. You got yourself in trouble by going to the theatre in the first place. In that environment, how much can you REALLY do?
(Commenting on: "Later, we're she decides she's tired and cancels our original dinner plan."):
Not surprising. You're probably now in the "potential asexual BF" AKA LJBF category. However, by cancelling those plans, she's telegraphing 2 things to you: You're not being sexually aggressive enough which translates in her mind into "sex with this guy is not guaranteed", and she is simultaneously "protecting" herself because dinner might lead back to someone's place and "something might happen". Well, of course, but you were not portraying that for real and you put yourself in the wrong category.
(Commenting on: "We're talking and she says she was hurt by the breakup of her last relationship and wants to take things slowly."):
Take WHAT slowly? I thought this chick was PROMISCUOUS based on her early talk
about condoms and experimentation. She said the word "relationship".
Fuck. She put you in the "potential mate" category which means that
her ASD mechanisms are now up very high. She has 3 categories for men: those
who she has flings with, and those who might be BF's, and probably (like all
chicks) LJBF. It's vague whether you're not in maybe BF or LJBF territory.
Now ask yourself: Do you want a GF and are you willing to WAIT until you find a way to bypass her ASD or are you just looking to lay her? I'm assuming the latter. If so, you should NOT have been questioning "What's going on?" throughout that whole "date". You should have been strategizing your tactics for LAYING her. That means ignore the BS about whether you're being aggressive or not.
Here's a new frame for the next time some BS like this happens:
Respond to her with, "The guys from where you're from aren't aggressive
at all, huh? Well, get ready for a change of pace because if you want to be
around me then you're going to experience something different. Maybe that is
something exciting to you?" If she gets up and walks out (which she won't
do), you'd have saved yourself A LOT of time. Otherwise, she'll stay and her
own dissonance will only reinforce to her that she must want this.
Even on the flip side, you could always have challenged her by testing to see
if she'll prove that she is the aggressive one. Again, if she wasn't BSing,
she will likely take up the challenge and aggressively sarge you, leading to
another form of dissonance in which she can only admit that she must want this,
otherwise she wouldn't be doing what she's doing.
Those were your 2 best options for passing this test. You chose neither and decided to accept HER frame. And regardless of whether what she told you was BS or not, you displayed submissive behavior. In that case, unless she was ALREADY attracted to you, she won't go after you. If you instead displayed dominant behavior, you would have been congruent and you would have had a 10x better chance to lay her that night. Because although a chick might SAY she wants to be the aggressive one (because of guys being non-aggressive), that same chick will still RESPOND to a guy who is more aggressive. The ONLY time it might work out with a non-aggressive guy is if she's already attracted to him for some reason. Even then, she might get bored with him rather quickly.
Always choose the path of dominance unless you get CLEAR signals from the chick's reactions (opposed to what she says) that she might actually be more attracted to signs of submissiveness.
(Commenting on: "So I reply, I understand... and five months from now, when we're totally comfortable with each other, you'll feel so safe and connected with me... and at that point you'll look back at tonight as being the start of it all."):
WTF were you trying to do here? All you're doing is re-enforcing a frame she already might have accepted - that she might be comfortable with you as a BF five months from now. Is that what you WANTED? Or did you want to shag her right there in the middle of the street? ALL your actions must be congruent with the kind of man you WANT to be. Not the kind of man you think will appeal to what a chick is telling you on her conscious level.
(Commenting on: "Her reply, "Why do you try to sell yourself so hard?" D-OHH !!!"):
She's good. :-)
(Commenting on: "Obviously, my SS is backfiring. Or maybe her brain translating my English into her native Czech caused the patterns to lose their punch?"):
This is a suggestion to the guys on this list:
You might want to consider that sometimes using something besides SS would be best to "convince" a chick of something. I have personally found that NLP languaging is best when shifting a chick from one state to another - not a means to convince her of the opposite of what she is verbalizing on a conscious level.
Sometimes you just have to LEAD her. You have to stay congruent to doing what YOU want to do, while simultaneously gauging her indirectly so you can read her better. If you change tactics mid-stream, you'll just look like a salesman - a BAD salesman.
(Commenting on: "The evening ended without so much as a kiss or a handshake... and she told me she was discussing me with her gurlfriend so I imagine that this date will be treated like the hash browns at the Waffle House.... scattered, smothered, splattered, eviscerated, sub-atomically dissected and fried beyond recognition."):
Well, it's surprising she even said that to you, but in any case it looks like you're in the "potential BF" frame. If her "gurlfriend" doesn't like the sound of you, prepare for a series of flaking ending with LJBF.
All I can say at this point is to call her up and state-break her by saying "You know - I'm not sure what to make of the other night. You really don't seem to know what you want." Then shut up and let her get angry at you, if necessary. Let her dis you if needed. Then after she's got all that aggression come out, try a last-ditch dissonance state-breaker by responding with "Wow - I didn't realize you had so much passion over something like this. I didn't realize you might have been trying to impress me without scaring me away. I like this side of you, it's so much more real." If she DOESN'T dis you with the state break, then just follow through and set up another "date" (this one with LEADING and ending with a lay).
(Commenting on: "I think maybe I'll hold off calling her and just wait to see her at the gym... then fly by the seat of my pants depending on how she presents when I see her."):
That's what a chump would do. You are placing all the decisive emphasis on HER rather than YOU. What do you WANT to do?
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PRODUCTS AND LINKS (There's some NEW STUFF in here, and I will try and put something new in here as often as possible):
For those of you who are just reading about this for the first time, I decided a couple of emails ago to add links to these emails. The idea would be to get enough money in to hire someone to take over the administrative work (and also to buy things which would improve this list, such as proper mailing list software) for this list. If you were going to buy the product anyway, just use the link that appears below and you are helping to keep this list going at no extra cost to anyone.
NON SEDUCTION-RELATED SITES
One of the more useful links I have set up is to amazon.com -- I know I buy
a lot from them and I am sure that many of you also do. So I arranged a link
with them and you can now buy from them and help out this email newsletter at
the same time. If anyone has any other suggestions of sites that would be a
good one for me to set up a link to, please let me know.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/redirect-home/nositeihaveap-20 For those in
the U.K., this should work: http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/redirect-home?tag=cliffslist-21&site=amazon
Here's a way for you to accept credit cards on your site today: http://zzz.clickbank.net/r/?cliffslist
RECOMMENDED LIST
DOUBLE YOUR DATING One of the best places for you to start your journey on becoming
more successful with women would be to get David DeAngelo's Double Your Dating
e-book. David (who posts here under the name "Sisonpyh" -- which is
"hypnosis" spelled backwards) is a good friend that I have known for
several years now that I originally met through one of Ross's Speed Seduction
seminars. His posts here have been among the most outstanding contributions
I have had over the years and his book (and the free bonuses) is highly recommended.
http://www.doubleyourdating.com/cl/ HOW TO SUCCEED WITH WOMEN Ron Louis and
David Copeland have been reading these emails for awhile and recently sent me
their Mastery Program Tape series which I have finished listening to. It has
some very good stuff on it and that, in combination with other pieces that you
can pick up here and from the other products mentioned can be a help. For those
who are just starting out learning how to deal with women, this is an excellent
basic daily course to take you through the process of dealing with women. For
those who are more advanced, you should pick up a few good ideas from this set
of tapes.
http://www.howtosucceedwithwomen.com/cgi-bin/at.cgi?a=169700 SEVEN MAGIC WORDS
Comments on this product from Tony B.:
I thought I might drop you a quick line regarding some of the more popular sites
that have been seen within this "seduction community." After seeing
several terrible reviews and "flames" from alt.seduction.fast, I decided
to make a decision for myself based upon my own ideas of what could be offered
on the Seven Magic Words product and after several months of reading great novels
about how to attract women and multiple posts about how women are most attracted
to men, I STILL found the site to be beneficial. After joining the site, I was
happy to learn all the new techniques that I have never seen on any list and
that alone made it worth the money. I am not typically the type of person that
spends money on a site especially a seduction site, I would rather pay for some
audio or video, but the information that was offered was different and unequal
to anything I have seen in the past. At any rate, I know you wanted a review..
and I have actually come to know the owner, and he puts more attention in his
members area than I would expect to see from any other site.
http://hop.clickbank.net/?cliffslist/smackudown DATING INSIDER Not only does
this next site give you an unconditional 1 year no risk money back guarantee,
but it stands alone and it's program is unmatched. Right now they're doing a
Free Trial period, and I'd take advantage of this while you can. The site reads
"Learn the proven secrets for meeting, attracting, and seducing women.
From A - Z, you'll discover the most advanced techniques for picking up women
ever developed." Check out their Free Trial (before it ends) and you'll
see why their members like this program so much. Click on
http://www.dating-insider.com/international/welcome.html.
How to Lay Girls Guide The ultimate SEDUCTION SECRETS database: http://www.layguide.com/cgi-bin/affiliates/clickthru.cgi?id=Cliffslist
NEW RECOMMENDATIONS:
I have finished reading The Sexual Key and it is one of the best works I have
read about understanding the language that women respond to. I give this a strong
recommendation and the price is right, too. The book, and/or its companion book,
Gut Instinct (which I will be reviewing) can be downloaded off the net for $39.97
each or $49.97 for both.
http://hop.clickbank.net/?cliffslist.sexualkey
THE UNKNOWN! (Not reviewed)
HYPNO-TECH Here's another one which I think has been reviewed here in the past
but I haven't gone through the old emails to check. "Do You Want To Know
A Simple, Two Minute Hypnotic Technique That Lets YOU Secretly Put Any Woman
Into An Instant Trance And Persuades Her To Ask YOU Out?
http://hop.clickbank.net/?cliffslist/hypnotech ADVANCED MACKING Advanced Macking
has one of the most enticing websites. An updated review would also be welcome.
http://links.verotel.com/cgi-bin/showsite.verotel?vercode=66629804000000274976
This one also looked pretty interesting. The link for more information on breakups
and loving-styles is http://hop.clickbank.net/?cliffslist/Tigress Success Secrets
Our free newsletter reveals it all Money and Personal Finance secrets; Business
& Marketing secrets; Health, Fitness, and Weight-Loss advice; Self Defense
secrets; Memory Improvement tips; Smart Advice on Flirting, Dating, Sex, and
Relationships; Personal Development tips; Communication and Negotiation tips;
Tax Secrets & Loopholes!
Investment and Stock Market tips; and Much More http://hop.clickbank.net/?cliffslist/prodeskcom
The Ultimate Guide to Powerful Relationships is only $8.95 and looks very interesting.
Comments, please. http://hop.clickbank.net/?cliffslist/unicades Here's a new
one I found which needs to be reviewed: "Guys! Get More Pussy with our
Adult Personals Inside Secrets Guide! Plus! Free Survey Results of Women Using
Personals for Sex The Guide contains the following Inside Secrets Replying to
ads - how to get noticed and get a date for hot sex.
Placing ads - how to beat the competition and get lots of replies How to handle
follow up communication to keep her interested. Examples of replies that worked
on us. You can just copy and paste these into your ads or replies. Saves you
time and increases your chances! A directory of the best websites for meeting
hot women! Sick of chicks who are only into cybersex and nothing else! The Guide
contains a list of the best adult personals sites."
http://secure.ibill.com/cgi-win/ccard/rscookie.exe?RevShareID=9804000000274976&
returnto=http://www.mysexinfo.com
Secrets of Power Persuasion! A course by Jian Wang to teach you how to write
hypnotic language to make others obey your command.
http://hop.clickbank.net/?cliffslist/mrchange (if this doesn't work, try this:
http://www.mrchange.com/?hop=cliffslist.mrchange, but both worked for me) Arte's
New Sex Video is kind of interesting. He shows a lot about playing with a woman's
g spot (which he demonstrates on his comely girlfriend - but I could have done
without seeing your dick, Arte). I will do a more extensive review after I have
watched it again more carefully: http://amos.simonweb.com/loveebook/affiliates/clickthru.cgi?id=lrec
FREE PLUGS
The following are all recommended but clicking on the links and buying from
them doesn't send any money back here (it is also recommended that the sponsors
of these sites consider setting this up -- from the little experience I have
had since I started the commercial section a couple of weeks ago, I think you
are missing a lot of business by not doing this) http://www.speed-seduction.com/
- The # 1 source; read the free newsletters & get the basic course.
http://www.trucor.com/ - Major Mark's site, the place to learn hypnosis and
about married women
http://www.essential-skills.com/ - learn anchoring, tonality, rapport, goal
getting, etc.
http://www.davidshade.com/ Give women incredible pleasure get David Shade's
Manual
http://www.fastseduction.com/ - great resource, a must visit http://www.sosuave.com/
- lots of free materials, many good ideas and articles http://www.mindcontrolmanual.com/
- seduce men and women through the power of the mind
http://www.oscarbruce.com/ - All his books deal with perusasion, manipulation
and a mild form of seduction. Books like School for Scoundrels focus on getting
your way with people and getting them to see things your way.
http://www.pickupguide.com - Maniac High's PUA Archive http://www.seductionnow.com
- This site has a lot of links and it contains pretty much all that an aspiring
PUA needs to know.
Get on Mystery's Lounge - send him an email at [email protected] (note
this new email address) with REQUEST MEMBERSHIP in the subject line.
Include your REAL name, your experience, background in the PUA, some online
PUA's who can vouch for you (references), and a real pic of yourself. If you
do not wish to give this REAL information, don't join. Only the PRO's are in
there anyways - we discuss lots of stuff but it's the REAL pix of our conquests
and the fact that we don't HIDE who we are to each other that makes it appealing.
MANY of the members Mystery has personally sarged with.
The rule is simple don't fuck up anyone's game. If you can abide by that and
have a track record for contributing, then that's basically good as gold. Pix
are a requirement, however. The Lounge is in many ways an EXTENSION of Cliff's
List and is not an alternative. You don't have to be a PRO, but you MUST play
the game. If you are only WANTING to ONE DAY chase skirts, please don't bother
joining.
http://www.mysterymethod.com/ - Mystery offers MM in-field training with his
3 day workshop, Sex Magic in several cities. Learn how to put women under your
spell by Mystery himself. Need to learn how to approach groups of people and
have solid material to fill the silence? Click now for more info & to sign
up.
Playerware which is designed specifically for men who like to date and interact
with a large number of women. The program is essentially an electronic chick
organizer. It contains features such as contact management, photo storage, an
electronic journal, a sophisticated rating and comparison system, date/interaction
tracking, as well as other unique features. Visit the site and you can get a
40 day free trial. Full registration is currently only
$15. http://www.playerware.com/default.asp?refid=10
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New Links to be explored (WE NEED THESE REVIEWED!): 1) The website reads as
follows and we need someone's review of this: "Impress everybody! Make
your life happen on purpose! Matthew Whiting an English and Psychology graduate
from Canterbury University and later a graduate of The National Academy of Performing
Arts, has created this revolutionary step-by-step training system which will
give you the means to becoming irresistibly attractive. Hence enabling you to
gain the relationship and life that you want. Whether it is on stage or in real
life we all know the "x" factor when we see it! But can we produce
our own individual "x factor"? In this book Matthew Whiting's radical
new approach to "being irresistibly attractive" will show you how
to: Master these personal strategies to become more Charismatic: · Learn
how to be master of your own intention · Taking action
· Being a successful leader
· Learning confidence
· ...and a lot more...
Master these personal strategies for more Passion: · How to be funny
· Leaving a lasting impression
· How to utilize the power of speech
· Extraordinary kissing
· Flirting - a delightful, innocent, and respectful way to play with
each other!
· ...and a lot more...(18 Chapters in total!) This book is jam-packed
with tonnes of information, (185 A4-size pages). It is written in a tongue-in-cheek
manner which is easy to follow, and you are sure to enjoy. Once you experience
the marvelous changes that Matthew Whiting enables you to make, you can shape
your relationships and other life circumstances exactly as you'd like them to
be." http://hop.clickbank.net/?cliffslist/unicades 2) How to create sexual
chemistry! This one looks interesting -- we need a review!
http://www.attractwomennow.com/cgi-bin/affiliates/clickthru.cgi/Cliffslist 3)
Welcome to CheekyCherry.co.uk, home of what has been called the bible of 'attracting
women, keeping them and sleeping with them'.
http://www.cheekycherry.co.uk/Main_categories/seduction_and_dating/dating_guide.html
4) Courses for women to seduce men!
http://www.ihrt.co.uk/seductionsystems/text%20gals.htm 5) Guys Guide to Girls
- A guide to relationships. How to overcome shyness and understand your partner...
http://www.philipov.com/guys1.htm 6) Wally's Seduction Tips for Desperate Bachelors
http://www.wallyandmurk.com/wally/sedution/Wallymag.html 7) Help with seduction
- for women who want to seduce men.
http://www.seducehim.com/
8) The website reads as follows and we need someone's review of this: "Ladies!
Never date a stranger unless you've checked him out first!
Fortunately, a basic background check is an easy thing to do, via the telephone
and the Internet. In just a matter of minutes, you can find out a great deal
on your own about any potential date (or even your fiance' or husband) using
the simple, free background check techniques described in our new "how-to"
manual.
CHECK HIM OUT FIRST! "Check Him Out! - The American Woman's Guide to Background
Investigations" guides you through the entire background check process
using clear, nontechnical language. You'll be amazed to learn that there's a
lot that can be done just by using the telephone intelligently!
Without even touching a computer, you can usually verify someone's name, address,
age, occupation, and even marital status over the telephone if you know which
government public records office to call and what information to ask for. "Check
Him Out!" is written for you -- the American woman with no knowledge of
public records and background checks, but with a need to do some quick basic
checking. It's easy to follow, and while it won't make you a seasoned "gumshoe,"
it will make you quite knowledgeable about the subject and will teach you all
you need to know to conduct a thorough basic background check on your own --
plus, it will show you where and how to get competent, reasonably priced help
if you later decide you want a more complex, in-depth background check done.
All this for $11.95 is hard to beat!" http://hop.clickbank.net/?cliffslist/washres
9) For those of you interested in being a bigger man, check out: http://www.angelfire.com/amiga/yourown/bigdickie.htm
10)What Every Man Should Know About Women! Learn the secrets to getting more
dates
than you thought were possible in the year 2001. What works, and what doesn't
work. How to spend less money and less time, to meet more women, and get more
dates. Self-Improvement skills for single men is what this material is all about!
Don't waste your time and money, get the facts on how to find Love efficiently
and effectively! Tired of not getting Lucky? Luck is when preparation meets
opportunity.
These Articles are guaranteed to teach you how to get and stay prepared, and
how to use the Internet to find more dates than you thought possible.
The information in these Articles will produce Ten Times the results of any
professional dating service. This material includes everything you need to get
own track. You need not purchase any other books. Our Total price for everything
is only $19.95 with a full
refund guarantee, if not 200% satisfied that this material will pay for itself
many
times over. http://www.howmengetdates.com/ 11) A long time subscriber to these
emails, Kenrick Cleveland was one of Ross Jeffries first teachers. These days
he is well known as the author of Max Persuasion, a course designed to help
people in all their pursuits in life that require the ability to persuade. I
have seen many reviews highly recommending his products but we could use one
for this list in relation to seduction. You can check it out
at:
http://www.maxpersuasion.com/cgi-bin/content/clickthru.cgi?content=Cliff604
What you should do is click on this link and then sign up for his free email
Influence Tip newsletters.
12) Suspect your spouse of cheating on you? Check this out http://hop.clickbank.net/?cliffslist/spouse1
13) Girl Patao: Learn how to talk to gals and get them wet DURING the conversation.
How to turn a 15 minute chitchat into a hot one-night stand.
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