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Sean:
Any pro PUA's in the LA area interested in coaching a newbie once in a while?
I'm 24, pretty good looking, still new to this, I'm looking for a cool wing
to show me how to work the sunset strip and other areas. Email me at [email protected]
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GameMaster:
(Commenting on: "Ross (Commenting on: "GameMaster: I wanted to follow
up on the story about Miss Louisiana! I met her online last week and we spoke
for the first time on Wednesday. I got her number and called her up and use
this line "Hello Cindy......well, I have the face.....now, I have the voice,
and sometimes the voice....can be just as intriguing as the face. Hi this is
GM". They always say something like "Oh yeah"! We chatted for
a while, laughed our ass off about the whole online thing, and agreed to meet
for drinks on Saturday but before I let her go I installed my voice and linked
it to the place where she see's "things of beauty". Trust me, I need
all the help I can get!
RJ: Hold on a sec; clear something up. Hadn't she asked to see your pic BEFORE
you two talked on the phone? Was the first time she actually got a peek at you
when you met for drinks? Important detail, my man!"):
GameMaster: OK Ross, check out my logic trail on this.....she had already seen
my pic. The way I structured that sentence was intentionally vague, whose face/voice....or
does it presuppose that "I" have THE face and THE voice? I've always
found it to be an effective opener, especially when they don't know who the
hell is on the other end until you tell them later.
Comments are welcomed.
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Ross:
(Commenting on: "I do not, however, waver in my acceptance and application
to bring a woman into states of lust, fascination, or horniness by using my
verbal language - it's like changing their mood."):
Exactly right; a "mood", when you look at it, IS a trance, with a specific feeling set of emotions and feelings to it, induced by atmosphere: lighting, setting, set, music, view, etc.
(Commenting on: "(BTW a large factor of "natural attraction" is body language and personal energy, both factors that I believe a self-aware person should consciously guide.)":
Again, I agree.
(Commenting on: "From what I know, RJ seems to be more sly in his seduction; the woman is feeling the states but hasn't consciously recognized that he's putting the moves on her."):
No, with the more adventurous ones, I offer a demo on how she can feel fantastic.
If she isn't open, I move on. I'm more covert about the INTENT of my questions
and what they are designed to do; I don't tell her, "If you answer this
question, more likely that not you will go into a state of lustful desire for
me and tell me what buttons I need to push to get you to jump me".
But the other more "hypno stuff" I almost NEVER do covertly. I TELL
them it is about creating awesome great feelings in their bodies; do they want
to try or not? I'm screening THEM for acceptance and also setting up a self-image
for them to live up to.
This is a VERY important point in setting the frame. I won't play with someone
who is not open and eager to exploring her good feelings, new good feelings,
new aspects and adventures in life.
(Commenting on: "He is more indirect and vague, where MB, I believe, puts the path that he wants to take with the woman down right from the get go."):
I find it hard to accept that a woman will allow a guy to walk up and say, "I think you are gorgeous and would like to explore getting to know you and maybe having a passionate affair" ABSENT her first showing some signs of non-verbal interest, like good eye contact, preening herself, etc.
(Commenting on: "I would side with Mark in the issue of being direct; I have found more success with starting flirty, cocky and to the point."):
I can be and am all those things. I ENJOY BEING THAT WAY. I just don't think
it is enough. It hasn't proven, in the past, to be enough for me with rare exceptions
where she already liked my "Jewish looks", or so they have told me.
If they LIKE your looks before you say a word, then the door is already unlocked,
and a bit ajar. If they DON'T get turned on by your looks, the door is closed,
and perhaps bolted or at least is a heavy door that requires a bigger push.
(Commenting on: "Perhaps It requires more effort in initially attracting some women, but I don’t keep ones that require sustained strain."):
Smart. I won't keep ones who keep trying to set the frame for ME to walk into. They don't accept MY frame, I don't continue. If they DO accept my frame, I'm happy to be more patient.
(Commenting on: "To my logic however, everything is “natural” in terms where nothing can work outside of natural universal laws. Things happen and then come the results. The word natural is dependant on the vernacular, but is based on our understanding of things."):
Well spoken and well said. When people prattle on about "natural" they are really just meaning, "What feels effortless and second nature to ME...what I am USED to doing".
(Commenting on: "When our understanding changes, the concept of what is natural does, too."):
Well spoken.
(Commenting on: "If it feels natural to work a little sneaky hypnosis bit to keep an HB10, then go ahead. In reference to the magician and his cloak - being a magician is not how I would prefer describe using SS tools. I see many SS techniques as skills, talents and hobbies, if you will. Smooth talk (or patterning) is a way to get a woman to feel a state, and lets just for this example, feel lust."):
I think more than that, it's about FREEING her from her first, "natural"
(read: auto-pilot/knee jerk) responses/sets of responses and giving her a chance
to discover something better, more enjoyable and more fun for us BOTH. It CAN
be about enhancing her first responses if they are already positive and good
based on how she responds to your looks/energy/confidence, etc.
THAT is real magick; not about cloaking who YOU are but about opening them to
have better responses than who they THOUGHT they had to be.
(Commenting on: "The ability in me to make a woman feel lust by the way I talk to her is something that I desire to be part of my personality."):
Right.
(Commenting on: "I personally don't anchor much. If I am lonely or have an "in the moment" desire, I will continue building a person's state using whatever I can, to the point where I get what I want. I don't have a need for them after that, so I structure the seduction accordingly. I, however, in terms of longer relationships would like girls who are attracted to my inner-self, so I know that usually I don't need to produce “artificial” attraction. (But that is only my desired opinion, because really, there is no such thing as “artificial”, and I think many cannot accept that.)":
Right; at best, we can say there is what you are used to doing/responding to
and what SHE is used to doing/responding to. The real magick lays BEYOND all
that. Point, set, match. Labelling things as natural/artificial/the real you/the
false you is just a way to keep people stuck doing what they are doing and being
"who they are". Not a good thing, in my book.
Now, I NEVER fake agreement with someone, always offer my own opinion, and will
never feign an interest in something I just don't like to try to "squeeze
in a match" that just isn't there. I don't believe I need to and I'm not
seeking a woman who relies on such things.
So I can always, in THAT respect, be "myself".
(Commenting on: "I only tried this once, but it worked. When the resistance
came, I stopped all play and said something like: "I understand. You'd
like to go on as much as I would, but there's a general principle that prevents
you." I didn't validate the principle by saying I respected it, but I did
act respectful of her decision to follow that principle. The key here was not
to argue or persuade, but simply to name it for what it was - a vague principle,
one that she didn't conceive for herself. I'm guessing that she thought about
that principle and it looked pretty pale to her as she sat there - cut off at
her own request. After a short pause she said "HF, you're so smart"
and jumped me. By the way, this girl was a trip. She was a Swede, here doing
a stint in a school for hotel and restaurant management.
With regard to foreplay, she once said: "Let's not waste time." (Okay,
this was a while ago and my technique may have left something to be desired.)
She could lube at will. She'd just close her eyes for a couple of seconds and
say she was ready. Wow!"):
Excellent. Powerful use of pacing her reality, showing you understand, but keeping it vague. Well done!
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Mark B.:
Little sister update. She actually dumped her new boyfriend. When I asked her
why she said that "He talked about sex with his other women and would always
changed the number of women that he slept with in the past. So I could never
be sure. He also said how he liked to have sex with different women and I felt
like I would just another fuck toy to him. I did not feel special to him. In
fact I felt disgusted that he would just use me for his own pleasure and felt
like just another fuck for him." So he is done. My sister is an HB, in
fact she looks like Jenteal the porn star and I even suggested that she get
into the adult film business. But she seems very reluctant to do as such. But
being as hot as she is she has all the trouble with men fulfilling her needs.
So I talked to her for about 2 hours about her unfulfilled needs and here is
what she said.
- I need a guy who will take charge and make the decisions, not tell me what
to do but be more assertive in terms of what he wants so that the pressure is
off me
- I need a guy who tells me what he wants rather than waits for me to figure
it out
- I need a guy who will focus just on me and not other women, I need to feel
special that way that I am the only one - I need a guy that I can talk to and
who will give me some direction and advice as to what to do and where to go
- I need someone who will understand me and really listen to what I have to
say
- I need someone who likes to have sex and who can last and do oral as well
as every style
- My biggest complaint about men is they do not take enough leadership but wait
for me to do things
- I want a guy who can stand up to the world and follow his own lead rather
than be a door mat for others
So really it seems it does not take much.
Cliff's Comment: Mark, I can not for the life of me understand how you can propose to your sister to be a porn star. I may be showing my old fashioned values here, but this one just doesn't compute.
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NightLight9:
This is a mail on the process of creating an addiction to yourself in a woman.
This is about keeping a woman, not getting one. I've been thinking about this
lately and here are my thoughts: For the women I date I am like a drug. As a
drug, I am probably most like heroin; where as, I think most guys are more like
cigarettes or, even worse, the nicotine patch.
Here's what I mean. You take the average guy and when he's got a woman he just
goes about his business and does the minimum for a woman to stay with him. He
doesn't do anything special unless he's "in trouble" for something
or done something wrong (so he goes and buys flowers or acts extra nice).
She sticks with this guy because she has a mild addiction, but in most cases
she isn't really that addicted to him. She could quit if she wanted to, but
she likes him enough that puts up with the "smokey hair and yellow teeth"
because she's afraid to try something different unless that something is really
compelling.
I on the other hand do nice special things when she's already happy (and not
when they are mad - I don't reward them for drama). In NLP speak, I get her
to a 9 on the 1-10 scale of making her feel special and happy, then I do something
that moves it to a 12. I'm an unbelievable high. Then I don't see her for a
while and I pick up other women or I don't call her for a week... That is the
low. This just makes the high that much more desirable. They say heroin addicts
spend the rest of their lives trying to match their first high. The women spend
their time trying to make sure I will give them another high.
Of course, there is more to a drug addiction than just the high, there are specific
physical and mental parts of the addiction, but you can make the same statement
on a relationship. I think it's a more powerful addiction to give incredible
highs and the juxtaposed accompanying lows than to be a constant slight buzz.
(Commenting on: "five683 comments: Now you guys are confusing me. This
goes against
everything I've been reading in these so-called on-line "men's" magazines.
Especially people
like "Doc Love" who says the way to get/keep a woman is to "always
be a challenge." So what's a self-respecting lesbian supposed to do when
she thought she found this wealth of information into a woman's psyche and now
I'm getting conflicting information??
Cliff's Comment: I think that Mark's comment doesn't fully take into account
that the guy was persistent in a charming manner, and not in an annoying, stalking
kind of way. I think it is clear that different things will work on different
women in different situations, but I do agree that being persistent can yield
benefits if done properly."):
NightLight9 replies: Yes and this takes patience as well. This guy probably wasn't doing this with 10 girls at once. He found one and persisted. I've heard girls say stuff like "I finally went out with him just so he'd go away" (that's a good plan). Or "he just kept asking and I felt bad". There are plenty of people out there who have a really hard time saying no. It just makes them feel bad. If you persist in the right way (not too pathetic, where they just dismiss you and not too brazenly, where they can blow you off as an asshole) they will say 'yes' eventually. Some people will never turn though.
(Commenting on "chrisonic: I like that opener. I live in Brazil (my English
sucks) and there are a
lot of clubs here where the guys go and try to pick up some girls."):
NightLight9 replies: I'm fairly confident that PU in Brazil would be substantially
different in terms of what kino means, etc., but basic principles
still hold true, just at varying degrees.
(Chirsonic: I notice that there are 3 types of guys here in the clubs: 1) Guys who approach girls and spend a lot of time (40 to 60 minutes) trying to kiss close. They normally introduce themselves saying something like: What should I do to get a princess like you? or You are the best looking girl in this club, etc. And then talk about where she lives, what she does, where she works, blah, blah, blah. Totally AFC.)
NightLight9 replies: So do these guys ever close? There are some places and people who can make this work.
(Chirsonic: 2) Guys who approach and spend about 10 to 20 minutes. These guys
are funny and can entertain girls, and some have a good pick up rate.
I think I am
one of those."):
NightLight9 replies: That's generally what I do. If it goes really well and/or I don't see a lot of better targets, I'll stay longer.
(Chirsonic: 3) Guys who go totally kino. They just approach the girl, invade
her personal
space, say one or 2 things and in less than 4 minutes start hugging and trying
to kiss close. Their pick up rate is good (like 60%) I tried to notice what
do they say, but it doesn't seem to be anything clever or funny... I think the
key here is the kino, like in the NightLight9's "Have you seen Thomas opener"):
NightLight9 replies: I do this too, sometimes. It's a different game. It requires a different mood and attitude.
(Chirsonic: So I have the following questions to NL9: 1) What is the pickup rate you've got using the Thomas opener?"):
NightLight9 replies: I've only used it on a few occasions (pretty much when I was hanging out with Thomas). Probably 10 girls. It got a positive response about 6-7 times. Kiss probably 3 times. These numbers aren't foolproof.
(Chirsonic: 2) What kind of girls have you kiss closed? Were they 8.5 and up? How old were they?"):
NightLight9 replies: Ages and attractive levels ranged. I don't think that has much to do with it. I think it has more to do with them being in a happy funny mood and me being happy, funny and sexy. I had one really hot 9+ girl totally wanting to help me (definitely about 3 seconds from a kiss) but a guy friend came over, grabbed her and said "If you want a ride, you come right now." He was pretty pissed as it was obvious I had gone from stranger to possible partner in about .2 seconds :-)
(Chirsonic: 3) When you failed to kiss close, what did you do?"):
NightLight9 replies: Talked for a second and moved on to another girl, or just moved on. There's nothing to do, this opener is not aggressive and the interaction is 90 percent non-verbal which means neither of you can really say anything because verbally nothing is happening. TO MAKE IT CLEAR, THESE TYPE OF KISS OPENERS ARE NOT DANGEROUS BECAUSE THEY ONLY HAPPEN IF SHE LETS YOU GET CLOSE ENOUGH TO KISS HER AND IF SHE DOES LET YOU GET THAT CLOSE AND FOR SOME REASON BACKS OFF IT'S NOT SOMETHING SHE WOULD BE MAD ABOUT UNLESS YOU PUSH HER FURTHER. If she is actually surprised by the time you go kiss, you did something wrong. Every move is gentle, relaxed and laid back. She's like the frog in the kettle.
(Chirsonic: 4) Does it works when you approach a girl who is with her friends? And what do you other guys think about this kind of approach?"):
Yes it works when she has friends there, but the skill is in reading her receptiveness. If you saw me do this, you would see that she is as much a part of it as you are. You would also see that the friends don't mind although they will eventually cock block you because they want to go home, etc. (This bypasses normal group tactics and therefore lacks the disarming properties).
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Mystery:
(Commenting on Ross's comment on: "(Commenting on: "Consider training
yourself using GROUP THEORY. If you approach a 3set, approaching THE ONE (formerly
target) immediately will alienate the PEER GROUP (formerly obstacles) every
time. So you approach the GROUP and focus on BEFRIENDING (formerly disarming)
THE ONE's FRIENDS (formerly Ug's). When you NEG THE ONE, you get the respect
of her peers while lowering her self-confidence.
From THAT position, you can get permission to 1:1 her and you are free to work
your magic."):
I think this makes perfect sense. Let's go apply it outside of a club context
for even more fun."):
When I say clubs, I also include bars, restaurants and other public gathering places. Public gatherings are my forte, not just clubs specifically. If a guy wants to get girls, he must go where the girls condensate.
(Commenting on: "Commenting on: "You are learning that approaching
girls 1:1 is (respectfully) cowardly."):
That's a weird label. You mean, it takes NO balls to approach and HB 9+ just
walking down the street?"):
I'm saying it CONVEYS cowardness - a hottie all alone gets some guy approaching ... it's not a situation that is as rewarding as a hottie in a 3set (remember MOST hotties are found in 3sets - of course, that fact only comes from my 10 years of field experience). Why? Because you will get the benefit of social proof if you pawn her peer group, and I'm sure you'll agree that the mind set of a 10 pretty much REQUIRES that her peers give her the go ahead. They are very "aware" of what their friends think.
(Commenting on: "Let's say approaching an HB 9+ in a group in a bar might not work so well."):
Huh? Given a choice of meeting a girl alone on the street or in a cafe is NOT
as good as meeting a girl in a 3set in a street or cafe. Each venue gives a
REASON for a hottie to be there. The street? Travel (hotties never just 'hang').
The restaurant? Food and conversation with friends. The cafe? Drinks and a chat
with friends. The bar? To drink and laugh with friends and hopefully new people.
The club? To drink and dance with friends and meet people. Which gives a higher
quantity of hotties? Which gives you the most opportunities to practice in a
given period of time? Which have the highest quantity of 3sets in which to work
in and use social proof to win THE ONE? The answer is CROWDED PLACES. It's almost
as if ... I'm hearing EXCUSES from you. You aren't GOOD in clubs so you list
all these 'reasons' why they suck. Only I'm living proof that people can clean
up if they practice GROUP THEORY. I'm here to tell you and everyone in earshot
that maneuvering within a GROUP yields far better results on a HOTTIE than in
a 1:1 situ. AND ... you'll find MORE group sets to practice on in a CROWDED
place than in a sparce venue like the street or cafe. BUT just because you have
better chances getting the job done right, that doesn't mean you can't pull
a girl sitting by herself. Getting the girl is IMO the exception to the rule.
What do I mean by this? Well, for instance, MOST guys don't pickup a girl in
a supermarket ... but it DOES happen. Our job is to be the exception to the
rule. Also, most guys don't get the girl in a cafe. But if you are the exception
to the rule, you will get her. And I believe the same holds for clubs and other
crowded public gatherings. Sure, a lot of guys and girls go INTO the club, but
few come out at the end of the night having hooked up. MOST go OUT ... ALONE.
We must be the exception to the rule.
"Men of Mystery are the EXCEPTION." ~ Mystery
(Commenting on: "Prophet: I'm back in Canada (Guelph) for a month before I take my HB back to Germany with me. I have been having some trouble sarging because we are together a lot. While we are here, we are spending time at our respective parents' houses. That gives me some time to get out alone and after having taken the trouble to learn these beautiful patterns, I don't want to stop using them. Are there any brothers in Guelph, Ontario (or Toronto if necessary) who I could wing with while I'm here?"):
Hey man, my very next workshop will be in Toronto. Check out www.mysterymethod.com.
The workshop would help you out tremendously. Just watching me work a room for
a while would give you the "ah-HA!" feeling. I could set the date
for January before you go (I was planning that anyways).
On a private note, I STILL make mistakes. Here's something to consider. I like
licking a girl's ass. I mean, after a shower and as part of the eating out thing.
It started as a "oooh that's so taboo" and turned into curiosity and
then became NORMAL. After all, simply eating a girl out was "oooh, that's
so taboo" before it became normal everyday. Here's the thing ... while
reeming a chick seems normal to ME because I'm used to doing it, you can scare
a girl off if the first sex you have includes these "oooh, that's so taboo"
things. Lick the asshole of a girl who's never done that on the first night
and you may not have a second night. Why is that? Comments?
Cliff's Comment: It's been my experience that do it to them (ANYTIME) and they love it, but doing it back to you is not something that will happen immediately with many (there are, God love 'em, exceptions, however).
(Mystery Commenting on: "I know Mystery and others have suggested cutting off all the physical play and offering to play checkers, or the like. I'd call this icing her."):
Not ICING HER per se. More like PUNISHMENT AND REWARD. It's all part and parcel of the PLEASURE/PAIN PRINCIPLE. The PPP works GREAT!
(Commenting on: "And then there's the "I really shouldn't be..." approach, where you just keep on going while saying that."):
Yes, the "we should stop" and keep going move ROCKS! It works great. And we also have Riker's 3 Rules. So that's THREE ways to slide into home.
(Commenting on: "I divide these last minute resistance situations into two categories. In the first category are situations where you know it's going to be a lot of work to close the deal if you can't close right then and there, or it's then or never, or she's just not worth the trouble. In the second are situations where you know it's in the bag the next time you get together and you think she's worth waiting for (Tristan's)."):
I suppose that's a fourth.
(Commenting on: "In this second category I don't want to blow a bird in the hand by trying too hard to put my hand in the bush. I don't want to ice her."):
It's not as cold as you think. It really works.
(Commenting on: "On the other hand, I've never been successful in overcoming all resistance with the "I really shouldn't be" approach. The best I've been able to do with that approach is a little more progress."):
Yeah, you use this one FIRST and see how far you get. THEN you switch to the PPP and punish her with your apathy. Throw in a matter of fact 3 rules thing and you should be good to go. AND ... if you aren't, then since you are playing chess, you can always wait it out til the next meet. ALL are useful in the same night.
(Commenting on: "Here's a twist that is kind of like icing her, but not harsh. I only tried this once, but it worked. When the resistance came, I stopped all play and said something like: "I understand. You'd like to go on as much as I would, but there's a general principle that prevents you." I didn't validate the principle by saying I respected it, but I did act respectful of her decision to follow that principle. The key here was not to argue or persuade, but simply to name it for what it was - a vague principle, one that she didn't conceive for herself. I'm guessing that she thought about that principle and it looked pretty pale to her as she sat there - cut off at her own request."):
Aaah, the power of PPP. She says NO so you say OK and while for her it means, "no fucking but necking still feels good", to you it means, "Wanna see me spit a watermelon seed into the dog's ear?"
(Commenting on: "After a short pause she said "HF, you're so smart" and jumped me."):
Dude, that was PPP. You didn't have to go one to any of the other techniques. Good job, ol' boy.
(Commenting on: "By the way, this girl was a trip. She was a Swede, here doing a stint in a school for hotel and restaurant management. With regard to foreplay, she once said: "Let's not waste time." (Okay, this was a while ago and my technique may have left something to be desired.) She could lube at will. She'd just close her eyes for a couple of seconds and say she was ready. Wow!"):
What's she need YOU for then? haa.
(Commenting on: "chrisonic: (Commenting on: "I call this my "Have you seen Thomas opener"): I like that opener. I live in Brazil (my English sucks) and there are a lot of clubs here where the guys go and try to pick up some girls. I notice that there are 3 types of guys here in the clubs: 1) Guys who approach girls and spend a lot of time (40 to 60 minutes) trying to kiss close. They normally introduce themselves saying something like: What should I do to get a princess like you? or You are the best looking girl in this club, etc. And then talk about where she lives, what she does, where she works, blah, blah, blah. Totally AFC."):
Yeah. They don't come in strong. They don't see IOI's and stick around as NICE GUYS mildly entertaining the girls with their presence. They stay there too long and waste their precious time. Then they leave 1 hour older and that much hornier.
(Commenting on: "2) Guys who approach and spend about 10 to 20 minutes.
These guys are funny and can entertain girls, and some have a good pick up rate.
I think I am one of those."):
This is the best place to be. Go in strong, make all the friends think you be cool and have THE ONE choose YOU because all her friends think you be cool.
(Commenting on: "3) Guys who go totally kino. They just approach the girl, invade her personal space, say one or 2 things and in less than 4 minutes start hugging and trying to kiss close. Their pick up rate is good (like 60%)"):
No way, dude. Coming in strong is good but not straight to THE ONE. No way. Alienate the friends and they pull her away to "dance". Unless you are talking about guys who pull the one from the peer group and sit her one to one. See, the guy already PROVED himself and with the negs created the challenge. It's HER turn to WIN HIM on the couch with her "little girl" act.
(Commenting on: "I tried to notice what do they say, but it doesn't seem to be anything clever or funny... I think the key here is the kino, like in the NightLight9's "Have you seen Thomas opener""):
The idea of asking a girl if they saw one of your friends is OLD. Not just old I mean. I mean, it's NORMAL. It happens a lot. It's not SPECIAL. If it works, yeah, but ... it's just not something I'd put into my repertoire.
(Commenting on: "And what do you other guys think about this kind of approach?"):
I don't like it. It's ... bland. The convo thread you initiate doesn't easily
continue into an interesting topic. Remember, there are only TWO convo threads
that women respond well to: RELATIONSHIP TALK (SEX) and TALK ABOUT THE UNKNOWN
(MAGIC). Hence ... SEX MAGIC. Sex talk doesn't mean actual "wanna fuck?"
talk but rather the "my best friend was having sex with his girlfriend
when ...". and Magic talk doesn't mean, "pick a card, any card"
but rather "Do you think spells work?" or "Do you think you possess
ESP?" A good opener so you can fall into these convo threads would be good.
The whole point of the opener is to start in on a group and convey that you
approached for the CHAT and nothing more. "Looks like the party's over
here. : ) I'm curious, have you seen the movie Poltergeist?
Do you think it was based on reality or all fiction?" You've come to entertain
yourself. Not to pickup the girl. Of course, the "you look like ... shopping
experts" is sorta like "You know Thomas?" but it's better. It
leads into open ended questions. I mean, once she says, "Thomas? Uh, no."
Where do you really go from there? Anything you say from there will reveal that
you are into them because why else would you be there? You can't negate that
with a neg right there and then. If you are looking for Thomas, and the girl
was unable to help, you would leave and continue to look for Thomas, right?
You wouldn't shift the chat to anything else that keeps you from finding Thomas,
right? Like, "So, come here often?" ANYTHING after the Thomas opener
and you've conveyed interest by STAYING there. Nope, don't like it. Of course,
it's better than shit in the pants, right? This opener reminds me of, "Excuse
me, do you have the time?" After that, where do you go? It's like you need
to have another opener right after that. So then why have the WHAT TIME IS IT
opener in the first place? WHAT TIME IS IT is not an opener. It's a Pick Up
line. And, therefore ... so is THOMAS. Boy, can I rant.
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PRODUCTS AND LINKS (There's some NEW STUFF in here, and I will try and put something new in here as often as possible):
For those of you who are just reading about this for the first time, I decided a couple of emails ago to add links to these emails. The idea would be to get enough money in to hire someone to take over the administrative work (and also to buy things which would improve this list, such as proper mailing list software) for this list. If you were going to buy the product anyway, just use the link that appears below and you are helping to keep this list going at no extra cost to anyone.
NON SEDUCTION-RELATED SITES
One of the more useful links I have set up is to amazon.com -- I know I buy
a lot from them and I am sure that many of you also do. So I arranged a link
with them and you can now buy from them and help out this email newsletter at
the same time. If anyone has any other suggestions of sites that would be a
good one for me to set up a link to, please let me know.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/redirect-home/nositeihaveap-20 For those in
the U.K., this should work: http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/redirect-home?tag=cliffslist-21&site=amazon
Here's a way for you to accept credit cards on your site today: http://zzz.clickbank.net/r/?cliffslist
RECOMMENDED LIST
DOUBLE YOUR DATING One of the best places for you to start your journey on becoming
more successful with women would be to get David DeAngelo's Double Your Dating
e-book. David (who posts here under the name "Sisonpyh" -- which is
"hypnosis" spelled backwards) is a good friend that I have known for
several years now that I originally met through one of Ross's Speed Seduction
seminars. His posts here have been among the most outstanding contributions
I have had over the years and his book (and the free bonuses) is highly recommended.
http://www.doubleyourdating.com/cl/ HOW TO SUCCEED WITH WOMEN Ron Louis and
David Copeland have been reading these emails for awhile and recently sent me
their Mastery Program Tape series which I have finished listening to. It has
some very good stuff on it and that, in combination with other pieces that you
can pick up here and from the other products mentioned can be a help. For those
who are just starting out learning how to deal with women, this is an excellent
basic daily course to take you through the process of dealing with women. For
those who are more advanced, you should pick up a few good ideas from this set
of tapes.
http://www.howtosucceedwithwomen.com/cgi-bin/at.cgi?a=169700 SEVEN MAGIC WORDS
Comments on this product from Tony B.:
I thought I might drop you a quick line regarding some of the more popular sites
that have been seen within this "seduction community." After seeing
several terrible reviews and "flames" from alt.seduction.fast, I decided
to make a decision for myself based upon my own ideas of what could be offered
on the Seven Magic Words product and after several months of reading great novels
about how to attract women and multiple posts about how women are most attracted
to men, I STILL found the site to be beneficial. After joining the site, I was
happy to learn all the new techniques that I have never seen on any list and
that alone made it worth the money. I am not typically the type of person that
spends money on a site especially a seduction site, I would rather pay for some
audio or video, but the information that was offered was different and unequal
to anything I have seen in the past. At any rate, I know you wanted a review..
and I have actually come to know the owner, and he puts more attention in his
members area than I would expect to see from any other site.
http://hop.clickbank.net/?cliffslist/smackudown DATING INSIDER Not only does
this next site give you an unconditional 1 year no risk money back guarantee,
but it stands alone and it's program is unmatched. Right now they're doing a
Free Trial period, and I'd take advantage of this while you can. The site reads
"Learn the proven secrets for meeting, attracting, and seducing women.
From A - Z, you'll discover the most advanced techniques for picking up women
ever developed." Check out their Free Trial (before it ends) and you'll
see why their members like this program so much. Click on
http://www.dating-insider.com/international/welcome.html.
How to Lay Girls Guide The ultimate SEDUCTION SECRETS database: http://www.layguide.com/cgi-bin/affiliates/clickthru.cgi?id=Cliffslist
NEW RECOMMENDATIONS:
I have finished reading The Sexual Key and it is one of the best works I have
read about understanding the language that women respond to. I give this a strong
recommendation and the price is right, too. The book, and/or its companion book,
Gut Instinct (which I will be reviewing) can be downloaded off the net for $39.97
each or $49.97 for both.
http://hop.clickbank.net/?cliffslist.sexualkey
THE UNKNOWN! (Not reviewed)
HYPNO-TECH Here's another one which I think has been reviewed here in the past
but I haven't gone through the old emails to check. "Do You Want To Know
A Simple, Two Minute Hypnotic Technique That Lets YOU Secretly Put Any Woman
Into An Instant Trance And Persuades Her To Ask YOU Out?
http://hop.clickbank.net/?cliffslist/hypnotech ADVANCED MACKING Advanced Macking
has one of the most enticing websites. An updated review would also be welcome.
http://links.verotel.com/cgi-bin/showsite.verotel?vercode=66629804000000274976
This one also looked pretty interesting. The link for more information on breakups
and loving-styles is http://hop.clickbank.net/?cliffslist/Tigress Success Secrets
Our free newsletter reveals it all Money and Personal Finance secrets; Business
& Marketing secrets; Health, Fitness, and Weight-Loss advice; Self Defense
secrets; Memory Improvement tips; Smart Advice on Flirting, Dating, Sex, and
Relationships; Personal Development tips; Communication and Negotiation tips;
Tax Secrets & Loopholes!
Investment and Stock Market tips; and Much More http://hop.clickbank.net/?cliffslist/prodeskcom
The Ultimate Guide to Powerful Relationships is only $8.95 and looks very interesting.
Comments, please. http://hop.clickbank.net/?cliffslist/unicades Here's a new
one I found which needs to be reviewed: "Guys! Get More Pussy with our
Adult Personals Inside Secrets Guide! Plus! Free Survey Results of Women Using
Personals for Sex The Guide contains the following Inside Secrets Replying to
ads - how to get noticed and get a date for hot sex.
Placing ads - how to beat the competition and get lots of replies How to handle
follow up communication to keep her interested. Examples of replies that worked
on us. You can just copy and paste these into your ads or replies. Saves you
time and increases your chances! A directory of the best websites for meeting
hot women! Sick of chicks who are only into cybersex and nothing else! The Guide
contains a list of the best adult personals sites."
http://secure.ibill.com/cgi-win/ccard/rscookie.exe?RevShareID=9804000000274976&
returnto=http://www.mysexinfo.com
Secrets of Power Persuasion! A course by Jian Wang to teach you how to write
hypnotic language to make others obey your command.
http://hop.clickbank.net/?cliffslist/mrchange (if this doesn't work, try this:
http://www.mrchange.com/?hop=cliffslist.mrchange, but both worked for me) Arte's
New Sex Video is kind of interesting. He shows a lot about playing with a woman's
g spot (which he demonstrates on his comely girlfriend - but I could have done
without seeing your dick, Arte). I will do a more extensive review after I have
watched it again more carefully: http://amos.simonweb.com/loveebook/affiliates/clickthru.cgi?id=lrec
HERE'S A NEW ONE
Suspect your spouse of cheating on you? Check this out http://hop.clickbank.net/?cliffslist/spouse1
FREE PLUGS
The following are all recommended but clicking on the links and buying from
them doesn't send any money back here (it is also recommended that the sponsors
of these sites consider setting this up -- from the little experience I have
had since I started the commercial section a couple of weeks ago, I think you
are missing a lot of business by not doing this) http://www.speed-seduction.com/
- The # 1 source; read the free newsletters & get the basic course.
http://www.trucor.com/ - Major Mark's site, the place to learn hypnosis and
about married women
http://www.essential-skills.com/ - learn anchoring, tonality, rapport, goal
getting, etc.
http://www.davidshade.com/ Give women incredible pleasure get David Shade's
Manual
http://www.fastseduction.com/ - great resource, a must visit http://www.sosuave.com/
- lots of free materials, many good ideas and articles http://www.mindcontrolmanual.com/
- seduce men and women through the power of the mind
http://www.oscarbruce.com/ - All his books deal with perusasion, manipulation
and a mild form of seduction. Books like School for Scoundrels focus on getting
your way with people and getting them to see things your way.
http://www.pickupguide.com - Maniac High's PUA Archive http://www.seductionnow.com
- This site has a lot of links and it contains pretty much all that an aspiring
PUA needs to know.
Get on Mystery's Lounge - send him an email at [email protected] (note
this new email address) with REQUEST MEMBERSHIP in the subject line.
Include your REAL name, your experience, background in the PUA, some online
PUA's who can vouch for you (references), and a real pic of yourself. If you
do not wish to give this REAL information, don't join. Only the PRO's are in
there anyways - we discuss lots of stuff but it's the REAL pix of our conquests
and the fact that we don't HIDE who we are to each other that makes it appealing.
MANY of the members Mystery has personally sarged with.
The rule is simple don't fuck up anyone's game. If you can abide by that and
have a track record for contributing, then that's basically good as gold. Pix
are a requirement, however. The Lounge is in many ways an EXTENSION of Cliff's
List and is not an alternative. You don't have to be a PRO, but you MUST play
the game. If you are only WANTING to ONE DAY chase skirts, please don't bother
joining.
http://www.mysterymethod.com/ - Mystery offers MM in-field training with his
3 day workshop, Sex Magic in several cities. Learn how to put women under your
spell by Mystery himself. Need to learn how to approach groups of people and
have solid material to fill the silence? Click now for more info & to sign
up.
Playerware which is designed specifically for men who like to date and interact
with a large number of women. The program is essentially an electronic chick
organizer. It contains features such as contact management, photo storage, an
electronic journal, a sophisticated rating and comparison system, date/interaction
tracking, as well as other unique features. Visit the site and you can get a
40 day free trial. Full registration is currently only
$15. http://www.playerware.com/default.asp?refid=10
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New Links to be explored (WE NEED THESE REVIEWED!): 1) The website reads as
follows and we need someone's review of this: "Impress everybody! Make
your life happen on purpose! Matthew Whiting an English and Psychology graduate
from Canterbury University and later a graduate of The National Academy of Performing
Arts, has created this revolutionary step-by-step training system which will
give you the means to becoming irresistibly attractive. Hence enabling you to
gain the relationship and life that you want. Whether it is on stage or in real
life we all know the "x" factor when we see it! But can we produce
our own individual "x factor"? In this book Matthew Whiting's radical
new approach to "being irresistibly attractive" will show you how
to: Master these personal strategies to become more Charismatic: · Learn
how to be master of your own intention · Taking action
· Being a successful leader
· Learning confidence
· ...and a lot more...
Master these personal strategies for more Passion: · How to be funny
· Leaving a lasting impression
· How to utilize the power of speech
· Extraordinary kissing
· Flirting - a delightful, innocent, and respectful way to play with
each other!
· ...and a lot more...(18 Chapters in total!) This book is jam-packed
with tonnes of information, (185 A4-size pages). It is written in a tongue-in-cheek
manner which is easy to follow, and you are sure to enjoy. Once you experience
the marvelous changes that Matthew Whiting enables you to make, you can shape
your relationships and other life circumstances exactly as you'd like them to
be." http://hop.clickbank.net/?cliffslist/unicades 2) How to create sexual
chemistry! This one looks interesting -- we need a review!
http://www.attractwomennow.com/cgi-bin/affiliates/clickthru.cgi/Cliffslist 3)
Welcome to CheekyCherry.co.uk, home of what has been called the bible of 'attracting
women, keeping them and sleeping with them'.
http://www.cheekycherry.co.uk/Main_categories/seduction_and_dating/dating_guide.html
4) Courses for women to seduce men!
http://www.ihrt.co.uk/seductionsystems/text%20gals.htm 5) Guys Guide to Girls
- A guide to relationships. How to overcome shyness and understand your partner...
http://www.philipov.com/guys1.htm 6) Wally's Seduction Tips for Desperate Bachelors
http://www.wallyandmurk.com/wally/sedution/Wallymag.html 7) Help with seduction
- for women who want to seduce men.
http://www.seducehim.com/
8) The website reads as follows and we need someone's review of this: "Ladies!
Never date a stranger unless you've checked him out first!
Fortunately, a basic background check is an easy thing to do, via the telephone
and the Internet. In just a matter of minutes, you can find out a great deal
on your own about any potential date (or even your fiance' or husband) using
the simple, free background check techniques described in our new "how-to"
manual.
CHECK HIM OUT FIRST! "Check Him Out! - The American Woman's Guide to Background
Investigations" guides you through the entire background check process
using clear, nontechnical language. You'll be amazed to learn that there's a
lot that can be done just by using the telephone intelligently!
Without even touching a computer, you can usually verify someone's name, address,
age, occupation, and even marital status over the telephone if you know which
government public records office to call and what information to ask for. "Check
Him Out!" is written for you -- the American woman with no knowledge of
public records and background checks, but with a need to do some quick basic
checking. It's easy to follow, and while it won't make you a seasoned "gumshoe,"
it will make you quite knowledgeable about the subject and will teach you all
you need to know to conduct a thorough basic background check on your own --
plus, it will show you where and how to get competent, reasonably priced help
if you later decide you want a more complex, in-depth background check done.
All this for $11.95 is hard to beat!" http://hop.clickbank.net/?cliffslist/washres
9) For those of you interested in being a bigger man, check out: http://www.angelfire.com/amiga/yourown/bigdickie.htm
10)What Every Man Should Know About Women! Learn the secrets to getting more
dates
than you thought were possible in the year 2001. What works, and what doesn't
work. How to spend less money and less time, to meet more women, and get more
dates. Self-Improvement skills for single men is what this material is all about!
Don't waste your time and money, get the facts on how to find Love efficiently
and effectively! Tired of not getting Lucky? Luck is when preparation meets
opportunity.
These Articles are guaranteed to teach you how to get and stay prepared, and
how to use the Internet to find more dates than you thought possible.
The information in these Articles will produce Ten Times the results of any
professional dating service. This material includes everything you need to get
own track. You need not purchase any other books. Our Total price for everything
is only $19.95 with a full
refund guarantee, if not 200% satisfied that this material will pay for itself
many
times over. http://www.howmengetdates.com/ 11) A long time subscriber to these
emails, Kenrick Cleveland was one of Ross Jeffries first teachers. These days
he is well known as the author of Max Persuasion, a course designed to help
people in all their pursuits in life that require the ability to persuade. I
have seen many reviews highly recommending his products but we could use one
for this list in relation to seduction. You can check it out
at:
http://www.maxpersuasion.com/cgi-bin/content/clickthru.cgi?content=Cliff604
What you should do is click on this link and then sign up for his free email
Influence Tip newsletters.
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