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Ross:
This is a reprint from a post I just made on the SS list about handling flakes:
More On (Moron) Flakes:
Reasons they flake:
1. They were powerfully moved and that triggers some fear in them.
2. They weren't sufficiently moved or motivated so they figure it isn't worth
their time or I didn't make it scarce/urgent enough so it became a "maybe
one day" instead of "yeah, I want to/got to meet/hangout/hook up with
this guy!" They didn't feel sufficient fascination OR that "connection"
or those "attraction butterflies".
3. They live a life of turmoil and chaos: family problems, drugs, depression,
emotional turmoil/mood swings, crime, problem on the job, some serious ruin.
These are girls you either fuck that night you meet them or you never fuck them
at all. Once you DO fuck them, you probably NEVER hear from them again (if you
are lucky!)
4. They are arrogant, narcissistic, shit-headed fuck-brains who think just the
CHANCE of being with them is sufficient for little people like you.
Emotionally 16 years old, but run around in 23, 29, even 40 year old bodies
and every range between.
5. They met someone they'd rather fuck and are busy fucking them. Hotties get
LOTS thrown their way you know.
6. Something bad happened beyond their control: accident, death, etc.
7. Something YOU did scared the crap out of them and you didn't pick up on it.
This will happen if you leave a bizarre or heavy message on the phone machine.
Don't leave messages that use their trance words before that first real sit-down
meeting. It will scare the pants off them. TRUST ME.
8. They weren't interested, they TOLD you so or TRIED to tell you, but you weren't
listening.
9. Lack of sufficient rapport
10. Burned so badly by men they are turned off to ALL men.
11. So young they live totally in the moment. Under 23 you get this alot.
They flake on EVERYONE, even their own female friends. Their female friends
do it back to them. Incapable of planning and seldom do, beyond the next 2-3
hours. (Also, girls with serious Attention Deficit Disorder will have this issue.)
Bad planning skills, poor memories, in one ear, out the other. Trust me, I've
been there; these drive you most crazy because they REALLY mean it when they
agree to meet you!
12. Girlfriends talked them out of it. (What? You're going out with a guy who
PICKED YOU UP ON THE STREET? (or substitute: "A Jewish guy...a black guy..a
guy THAT old? ...a guy NOT in the frat! etc., etc., etc.")
Solutions:
I've found I've been able to mitigate ALOT, but not all of the flaking by handling the overwhelm/safety issues, building sufficient rapport, creating value/interest (especially after getting a number after a very brief meeting; I find it will take about a 10-15 minute phone conversation that doesn't get TOO heavy to get a meeting with them, face to face, that they keep), making sure I give them SOME taste of a great body feeling so they can get that "attraction" recognition signal for themselves. If I have enough time I also will inoculate against the "friends" issue by pointing out I only spend time with people who can demonstrate they have their own minds/can think for themselves.
Categories 3,4,8,10 and 11 are pretty much impossible to prevent, other than attempting to stay alert, aware and recognize them and just not count on anything that doesn't happen right then, right there, or simply shit-canning them and running like hell. I can't yet see a way (away! ha ha ha) other than getting away to deal with these poor chicas.
Since some of you deal with young women alot and hit entire veins of flakes, I'd like to hear your responses to this. Anyone else, please feel free to chime in....
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Jake (www.SeduceAnyGirl.com): Does anyone know when some of the masters will be coming to Australia to teach?
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GameMaster: Hey Clifford, it occurred to me after a couple of recent postings
that I probably
should lend some clarification to how I use some of these rather lengthy patterns.
I've experimented with just about every combination of ammo in the arsenal and
have learned, as most of the guys have, when it comes right down to seduction
the
rule is "the simpler the better". Duh! Where I have failed with this
stuff was when
I was so dazzled by my own bullshit I would ramble on and on throwing the kitchen
sink at these women in an attempt to overwhelm them into submission. And you
know what, they were all totally fucking overwhelmed and I never saw them again!
Anyway, my style is more of a hit and run, playful buildup to the main event.
I keep
copious notes on what was used, their values, trance words, etc. The last thing
you
want to hear from some chick you're trying to bang is "Yeah, I've heard
this one
before." I sort of subscribe to the Timothy Leary foundation of "set
and setting" now
and wait for the non-verbal clues to go in for the kill. All these other patterns
are
designed to translate my own personal experience into something exciting and
intriguing to my target, and they all come into play eventually...but never
in sequence
anymore. Although I do sometimes get repeat requests for that Don Juan thing,
and
I'm finding fewer and fewer people have seen or remember the movie. And you
don't
have to be Johnny Depp to pull that off, hell that guy's from fucking Kentucky!
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NightLight9:
(Commenting on "Jeff: commenting on NightLight9 kiss opener: BULLSHIT!"):
NightLight9 responds: Damn that makes me feel good :-) Where you at, dog?
If it's cool, maybe I'll come visit you and show you how it's done. If you are
ever in the Seattle area, let me know. Anyway, I'm sure lots of people on the
list will attest that they have had similar experiences at least once (some
many times), so get off your ass and test this shit out. The worst thing that
can happen is a head turn.
Anyway, I've been thinking some more about resistance to the first kiss.
Specifically, what to say when a woman pulls back and asks "Why do you
want to kiss me?" Obviously she wants to kiss you if she's asked this,
she wants to know it's both alright and that it won't end up a bad experience.
I've tried a bunch of things that don't work that well (for me at least) like:
say nothing, just try again (works once in a while) "I don't want to, I
have to." "You're so beautiful.", and "I've wanted to since
I first saw you" (works sometimes). The one that I came up with recently,
that I think has real merit (and worked the one time I've used it) is "Chemistry,
you know chemistry is like..." Maybe add "You just can't fight it."
Another line like this that I"m working on for ambiguity after you've made
the first transition, or if you sense she is very sexual. "That reminds
me of a friend of mine from chemistry class. She was so cool. You know what
they say about chemistry. You can't fight it." then change the subject
or kiss her if she's ready. I love this, because it's a bit of stream of consciousness
that creates confusion.
NightLight9 on suntanning: I love the irony of guys who are advocating swapping
multiple types of bodily fluid with chicks and then worrying so much about
skin cancer and sun damage. Rhetorical question: do you use a dental damn when
you eat a girl out, or just take a quick pap smear? <lol> Then again,
I do ride a motorcycle...
Cliff's Comment:
Good point, but I think we all make trade-offs in life and accept some risks
and decline others. This (taking the sun) is an easy one to say no to, whereas
having women, in my opinion, is distinctly more important comparatively speaking.
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Maxin:
(Commenting on: MB: Come on, man. You can't be serious here. 100% of all guys
I know
including me, know whether or not they would sleep with a woman as soon as they
see her. It's then up to her to turn us off by her attitude, not the other way
around. If I see Halle Berry and she turns out to have an IQ of 20 but is willing
to fuck, I am not turning her down. After all, it's her body I want not her
brain when I am fucking her. It seems to me you have bought in too much into
this NLP business at the expense of all other lines of thinking."):
I have on many occasions slept with a woman who I was not initially interested
in
because she had a great attitude. I have also had conversations with women who
were very
attractive on the outside but who were so fucked up in their way of thinking
that I
decided there was no way in hell I'd ever sleep with them... even once.
If you and "everyone you know" are focusing exclusively on the exterior
packaging, then
you are in for some seriously bad relationships with women.
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Mark B.:
(Commenting on "Mark B. Commenting on me: She is a friend of 12 years.
We have never been romantic but we worked together for about 7 years while I
was in high school and then in University and kept in touch after. She is not
yet married but will chain herself to her current fiancé next summer.
By brownie points do you mean "the brown point" - maybe she is into
anal? Do you think this was her implicit way of telling me something? Perhaps."):
No, I didn't mean that she would tell you she's into anal or wants to fart
you a greeting. Her fiancé is having her heart after all, I just meant
to make you notice the very special and playful ANCHOR she gave you. (I do not
know what brownie points really are but I think they equal value - at least
honor). The hard part is to play your cards RIGHT. A playful response to your
sexual request can be covering emotional disturbance or even anger about it.
Your brownie point won't buy brownies. But you've waited 12 years, now you can
wait until the wicked 7th year just as easily... I mean fire your anchor when
her husband ate half her heart out.
Brownie point - anchors temporarily unrequited sexual caring.
(Commenting on: "(Commenting on: "She is 25, 5'11", blonde, who used to model in her teenage years."): You mentioned cell phone and email address... ;-D)"):
MB: I'll keep this in mind and use it as a playful way of reminding her of my suggestion. When I see her I will ask her to physically give me that brownie point. I do have her numbers but what I did was not with serious intent. I only wanted to see how she responds - the point being that she did not get angry....
(Commenting on: "This is the same as one of the lessons I learned from
a good book on sales: "Closing Techniques (That Really Work!)" The
author, Stephen Schiffman, says that when you get resistance or even rejection
from a prospect, too
many salesmen interpret it as a lost cause. You should instead interpret it
as an opportunity to learn what problems or questions your prospect has with
the product you are selling. What you interpret as rejection may only be the
prospect thinking out loud, mulling the issues as it were. I am keen to try
out MarkB's technique, but I recently learned that my school's sexual harassment
edicts forbade "propositions." I'll have to wait until break, unless
I can think of some clever way around it. Suggestions are welcome."):
MB: I would not do this where it has the potential to hurt you such as at work
or in school. To get around it, I would suggest doing it outside of the work
or school environment so that you avoid getting yourself potentially in hot
water. For me it's best to do this in places where I am not likely to see the
woman again or somewhere where she cannot find me again but I can find her,
such as a store where she works, etc. The point is to minimize the chance of
her finding you in case she is a psycho and takes great offence to your suggestion.
There seem to be a lot of guys on this list who think that if a woman says
no then she is missing out on the best set of experiences that the guy could
give her. To me this is a form of self delusion where this line of thinking
suggests that you and her exist in a vacuum with no other variables present.
What if you could indeed give her the time of her life, the most powerful orgasm
or the best anal she's ever had. But also consider the other factors associated
with you being in her life. She many not want to subject herself to being potentially
hurt, she may not want to stop seeing her friends to see you, maybe she is not
ready for a relationship, maybe she has feelings of guilt, she may not be attracted
to you, she may already have a boyfriend.
Your value system may not be equal to hers, etc. When she rejects your offer,
you
see her as making a mistake. Well, maybe in your mind but not in hers and as
long as in her mind the costs of being with you outweigh the benefits no matter
how great you think you are you unfortunately are not the best for her. But
you can try to make her think otherwise by discussing her reluctance. Thinking
you are the best prevents you from seeking to improve yourself and can potentially
stifle your progress by thinking "I am the best, I do not need to improve,
they are making a mistake..
....blah.. ..blah...... ..blah"
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Jeff: (Commenting on: "Sis recommends just casually introducing yourself,
making her laugh and being cocky, and acting disinterested and even aloof, creating
a little doubt in her mind that you might not really be interested in her. Mystery's
method seems somewhat similar, using negs and creating social proof and being
entertaining using a rehearsed routine. Your strategy seems so simple I almost
can't believe you're getting away with saying the shit you're saying."):
MB: It's extremely simple. I say "Hello. My name is Mark. I could not help
but notice you. I think you are stunning." I get her response and then
I say "I wanted to let you know that you are hot, I find you attractive
and it would be great if we had a chance to get to know each other for the possibility
of having great times together and perhaps many nights filled with passion."
That's it. Then she will say "I have a boyfriend," " I am married,"
"It takes time for me before I sleep with someone," "I need to
be romanced or know someone better," blah blah blah...... The basis for
this approach is that it fishes out the potential from the non potential right
away. This approach virtually guarantees that you will encounter resistance
but that is the whole point for any resistance she gives you is a way of her
telling you what issues you need to address before she sleeps with you or agrees
to go out. Most men think that resistance or objections equals rejection and
that is why they avoid being up front in favour of being more subtle, i.e. cocky,
funny patterns, etc. To me when a woman says "I need to get to know a guy
better," she is telling me what it will take to get her and more importantly
she is not saying "fuck off, asshole" which is rejection. Objections
and raising of concerns are not rejection. Most people, though, see any signs
of resistance as rejection which it is not.
This, I believe, is where most people draw the wrong conclusions and favour
being anything but up front in the hope of warming her up to you thus avoiding
any resistance later. In my way, you still have to warm her up but you do it
after you make your intent known and this is where I can be cocky, funny, use
patterns, etc. The advantage to my method is that at least you know what you
need to do and you also know whether she is open to your initial suggestion
- this is the key for you do not want to waste your time if she is not at all
interested or never would be no matter what you do."):
I tried something like this recently. I met this HB for coffee and we had a
very nice time after grapho deck and some patterns but obviously it didn't last
because I didn't see her again after that. Then after several months I decided
to give her call and I told her I thought we connected pretty good and I thought
she was absolutely beautiful and that I wanted to be with her.
She said, "I don't know about that because I'm just starting to see someone
who I really like."
Then she told me to call her and I called a few days later and she said she
couldn't talk because she was with her borefriend so I decided to back off for
now and haven't called again.
Comments?
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Flying Dutchman:
I promised to describe two different beach approaches I have recorded from a
Belgian TV
programme about real boys and girls flirting in Salou (Spain). The first approach
is
pure AFC, the second is a pure PUA. They are both so funny and pathetic!
But keep in
mind that this is all reality, nothing is acted here!
First scene. Two AFC guys are laying on the beach and they have spotted two
girls a bit
further away. For your information: the guys wear big, outdated swimming shorts
and
aren’t tanned (I guess they just arrived). One guy is fat (let’s call
him guy A), the
other is very thin (guy B). I hope you remember my previous comments on appearance
(fashionable, tanned and athletic). The girls they want to score are a HB 8
and a HB
8,5.
Laying on their towels, guys A and B try to impress the girls by looking very
cool and
casual. It doesn’t appear to work, as the girls show no attention at all.
So they decide
to change tactics and to approach them right away. The guys walk over.
Guy A: “Hello, where are you from?”
HB 8,5: “We are from Belgium. We live in Leuven (city in Belgium).”
Guy A: “Oh, we are from Belgium too. We live in Hasselt (city in Belgium).”
HB's remain silent.
Guy A: “I’m Guy A, his name is Guy B.”
HB's remain silent.
Guy A: “Just a small question. How old are you?” HB 8,5: “I’m
17.” HB 8: “I’m 18.”
Guy A: “I’m 26.”
HB's remain silent.
Guy A: “Where are you going to, tonight?” HB 8,5: “We don’t
know yet.”
Guy A: “Yeah, there are some good clubs here. I know, because I visit this
place for the
third time now. So I know now where the best clubs are located.” HB 8 (a
bit bored): “Cool.”
Guy B: “Maybe you girls like to meet us at (name of club)?” Guy A:
“Yeah, we just ask,
you know. We will be there at midnight.” HB 8,5: “I don’t know.
Maybe.”
Guy A; “Alright then. Maybe we’ll see you there. Bye.”
And the guys return to their towels while the girls are in agony and looking
at each
other laughing out loud (the guys don’t see or hear this).
The interviewer ask the girls what they think of their approach: HB A: “Well,
they are sympathetic, but they are definitely not my type.” HB B: “Yeah,
they are not attractive at all. They look cliché. And their approach
is not
good. It's way too direct. In a different way, it can be much more exciting.”
Funny note: while you can see the girls laughing in the back (the guys don’t
see that),
the interviewer asks guy A what he thinks of his approach. Guy A replies (very
serious): “Well, it might become difficult to establish a sexual relationship
with them
while they are still so young.” (I’m not making this up, these were
his exact words.
LOL. This is SO pathetic! HAHAHA)
Things to learn from this approach:
a) Be attractive. Work on your appearance.
b) Don’t try to impress women by looking cool. It doesn’t work. You’ve
got to approach
them.
c) Don’t approach them without an invitation (eye contact) or a reason
(can be a funny
remark or something you notice in your surrounding “Look, a shark!”
Now THIS gets
attention ;-)).
d) Don’t ask questions out of the blue.
e) Don’t give away personal information for free (names, age, etc.). Rather
be a man of
mystery.
f) Never ask a girl her age. It’s very rude.
g) Don’t try to impress her by bragging about your previous vacations,
girlfriends,
whatever.
h) Don’t ask for a date. Instead, set up an opportunity. And NEVER, NEVER
say MAYBE.
It shows you’re insecure and sets yourself up for a straight rejection.
Guy A: “We
just ask, you know.” Argggh get a life!
Enough. I’m getting tired of shaking my head.
Next approach. For your information: Gus is a guy from Morocco (tanned, not
really
athletic, but he’s very cocky and funny and has a playful look in his eyes).
We see Gus
standing in the sea among a lot of people. A couple of yards from him is an
HB 9 who
wants to go for a swim, also standing in the sea.
Gus (a little annoyed): “Hey! You’re making me wet!” and he
spatters in the water
towards HB 9.
HB 9 laughs and runs back to the beach. Gus runs after her while making her
wet.
HB 8, a female friend of HB 9, is waiting on the beach for HB 9, is watching
the whole
scene and is laughing too.
Gus exclaims: “You both have to come along!” and tries to pull them
towards the sea.
HBs: “No, no.” (laughing)
Gus lifts HB 9 up and runs back with her in the sea. HB 9 is screaming like
a little
girl and HB 8 is following her girlfriend in the water.
Lots of laughter and spattering.
Gus and the HB's are returning to there towels still laughing. They are sitting
on the
towels. Gus seats himself between the HB's.
Gus seriously to HB 9: “Do you have a friend?” HB 9: “Yes, I
do.”
Gus laughing: “But she doesn’t!” while he hugs HB 8 and kisses
her on the cheek.
HB's laughing too.
Gus to HB 8: “What is I love you in French?” HB 8: “Je t’aime.”
Gus to HB 8: “Ah. Moi aussi” (I love you too), laughs and kisses her
again on the cheek.
HB 8 shakes her head and laughs too.
Gus then to HB 9: “Hey, she says she loves me.” HB 9: “Did she?”
Gus to HB 9: “Yeah, she just told me she loves me very much.” Gus
out loud to himself: “I want to make passionate LOVE with this woman!”
And he tums
on his belly with a big smile on his face.
HB's laughing again.
Gus then to HB 8: “Does your girlfriend have a problem with that?”
HB 8: “No, not at all. She is staying at the hotel.” Gus playfully
to HB 8: “And we are going to my place?” (pause) “If you want
to.”
HB 8: “Ehm… No, first we are going to party and then we’ll see.”
Gus to HB 8: “Alright. So later we can…(pause) Ok. Fine with me. Meet
me at Kiss (name
of club) at eight o’clock. It’s right there (he points towards the
street).” HB's looking at each other and laughing.
HB 8: “Ok. We’ll meet you there.”
Gus kisses both girls on the cheeks and leaves them.
Now this is a perfect example of being cocky and funny. Notice the kino and
kisses he
uses. Compared to the first approach, I’m sure you see the differences.
Good luck with
my tips! Enough for now. I’m going to fly off. C-YA.
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Ethereal:
(Commenting on: "MB: Come on, man. You can't be serious here. 100% of all
guys I know including me, know whether or not they would sleep with a woman
as soon as they see her. It's then up to her to turn us off by her attitude,
not the other way around. If I see Halle Berry and she turns out to have an
IQ of 20 but is willing to fuck, I am not turning her down.
After all, it's her body I want not her brain when I am fucking her. It seems
to me you have bought in too much into this NLP business at the expense of all
other lines of thinking."):
I think it all comes down to the fact that people can be different. I used
to be just like you, and looks, a nice ass and a good rack were all it took.
Then, in March 1998, a phenomenal event took place which altered the course
of human history: I met a woman, she was so damned determined, who practically
seduced me (well, neither of us knows who seduced the other) - she was absolutely,
spectacularly gorgeous and attending one of the best law schools in the country,
where I was an undergrad. She was absolutely brilliant, sophisticated, witty,
worldly, sage and BAM my whole world was knocked up, around, and down. When
she induced that I was interested, her first question was "I have an interesting
birthday, it's the Ides of March, can you tell me a little about what that means?"
From there on we discussed Shakespeare, Nietzsche, Derrida, the nature of human
desire... I couldn't believe that such an event could happen: Sure, I was attracted
to her physically, but this woman was incredible, we connected on every level,
in every way.
After that point, "just another hot chick" was NOT good enough for
me. I could care less, they're dime a dozen. The direct "Wanna fuck?"
approach does not apply. Seeing one does not guarantee her any rite of passage
into my bed chambers at all. Talking, testing, etc. THAT does.
But, this approach can be modified so that after the woman is tested, and passes,
then desires are thrown on the line. I like that, and it works for me. But I
also like to make them earn it, I like ambition. The key with this list is to
take what each of us says, even if the angle is totally different, and apply
it to our own styles. Critiquing the differences only illustrates the difference
in the user's personality, and doesn't help things.
Onto something new: My friends and I recently have been observing women's behavior
and determined that looking back at things, in our experience, the following
signals almost absolutely guaranteed sex later "GTB, guaranteed to bone":
-when offering a phone number, she offers not only 1, but 2 or 3 along with
an email address or physical address
-when she suggests to "rent a movie"
-when she takes you to her place, under any kind of pretense (I'm only going
to show you this, that, then "you have to go") AND locks the door
behind her after you get in (some dispute and say anytime she takes you to her
place) -when she comes to your place, and takes off her shoes -when you, not
having explored the territory yet, grab her ass/tits and she doesn't flinch
at all, or pretends not to notice -when she reacts strongly to the touch, moving
or almost falling limp especially if you haven't touched her for a prolonged
period previously -when you touch her, and you notice she feels like she's running
a fever of a 103 especially in certain areas (breasts, stomach, lips (both kind))
The following signals illustrate a desire to have sex "WTB, want to bone"
but that still need further seducing, these happen usually before the approach;
they're essentially a sign of the desire to be hit on: -when walking by, looking
over at something in your direction, but not directly at you, in order for you
to look at her looking -when walking by, a deer in the headlights look when
the more you check her out the more she keeps looking, but not directly at you,
just eyes wide open.
You can check her out all you want and she doesn't look away -when walking by,
flipping her hair (obvious) -when walking by, smiling or saying hi (obvious)
-when walking by, looking down, but in your direction, which changes as you
walk by (i.e. she keeps looking down but as you walk by her head turns toward
you), sometimes accompanied by a peak-a-boo look at the end to see if you were
looking and/or a smile
-when walking in front of you, taking something from her purse/front pockets
and placing them very slowly into her ass pocket, leaving the hand there slowly
as it withdraws
-when walking by, attempting eye contact with you (holding a glaze extendedly),
right until you notice and look back, at which point she looks away suddenly
(sometimes looking back again later) -stretching in front of you in the gym
(especially spreading eagle or bending over)
-constantly adjusting her clothing, or smoothing it -the relentless, emotionless,
reactionless "I want to something with you" stare
-stretching to display breasts, then optionally, looking afterwards to see your
response
-pinching your ass, but pretending she didn't (at bars or parties) -intensely
looking at another woman's reaction to you (that you know) and/or making threatening
body language towards that woman Some verbal WTBs:
-asking for a spot in the gym
-starting ANY conversation AT ALL with you, when you do not know her (even if
it's what time is it?, etc.) especially if you've seen her around a few times
but have never spoken, and it isn't a function of her job, but don't rule that
out either, and especially if there are plenty of other people she could've
talked to but didn't
-when checking her out, and you say nothing, she asks "What?" -asking
if you have a girlfriend (obvious) / relationship history -asking what you did
last weekend, or what you did in some kind of social singles setting
-making excessive fun of you
-acting excessively offended at your jokes about her (so that you have to "make
it up" to her)
-hearing her ask her friends who you were -when she talks about your reputation,
or how she finds your reputation vs.
what she heard (even if it's insulting or flattering) -when she comments how
great you smell (almost a GTB) -making any kind of unprompted suggestion about
what you should do "to get women" especially when that topic had never
been brought up before
Can anyone think of others? Through the years I've discovered many signals
that I didn't even know were signals, and this has helped me immensely.
Hell, when I first started I didn't even know asking you if you had a girlfriend
was a sign of interest, I thought it was just a normal thing for women to do.
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HouseOFire:
(Commenting on: "Mark B:. So there - make your needs known openly and you
will not need any techniques or books or systems."):
Mark, I know your speaking from experience and I think you're onto something,
but your conclusion doesn't follow. Being direct, making your needs known openly,
works for you, but doesn't work for a lot of people. It didn't work for me two
years ago. It works for me now. The question is why?
I'd like to float the idea that what makes being straight forward work, and
moreover what makes any approach work, including Ross', Sis', and Mystery's,
is the attitude you project.
The key component of that attitude is probably confidence and self-assuredness.
I'd even go a step further and say that it is sexual confidence. We've all heard,
and most of us understand, that most woman want sex as much as we do. But a
big difference is that looks being equal, women do not find quality sex as easily
as men. I don't have any surveys in front of me, but I believe that most woman
who are currently with men are not entirely satisfied. It may be as simple as
saying that most women wish they had a man who could stay hard long enough to
satisfy them completely, but they don't. If you go up to a woman and say how
much you'd like to fuck her (put it more elegantly if you like), she's not going
to respond very well if she thinks
you're a two minute man, like she's had before. If you are a two minute man,
you'll know it, and you'll probably telegraph that fact, or the fact that you've
got some kind of problem, at some level. More generally, if you haven't made
women happy in the past, you'll know it and you may have a hard time not projecting
that. On the other hand, if you can look her in the eye thinking and believing
you can fuck her like a Viking out of legend, she's likely to respond well.
Looks are certainly a factor, but one blown way out of proportion. Consider
this: looks vary on a vast scale, from fat, short ugly, and ravaged to tall,
thin, statuesque, and pure. You Mark, tan or no tan, diet or no diet, travel
within a narrow range on that scale (I'm not even going into the issue of different
tastes). This is not to say that your tan doesn't make a big difference. You've
said it does and I have every reason to believe you.
I've seen results from improving my style of dress (the Kenneth Cole black leather
sports coat, from Sym's, works wonders for me). But I think the reason tanning
works for you is more a combination of what it does to your attitude and what
it says about you as a person (someone who gets a tan/cares about how they look)
than about the raw sex appeal it gives you. A natural, straight forward attitude
may be all it takes to attract highly desirable women. It may well be that a
lot of us just tend to get screwed
up or become too keenly aware of out own limitations somewhere along the way.
Just look at women. Doesn't it seem sometimes like most have severe emotional
problems?
It's my belief that Ross' genius lies in his ability to make people change their
attitudes. He makes his points in such pithy ways that people can't help but
change. Think about him describing a date as watching her "stuff her face
with calamari". Think about his suggestion that you stop thinking about
how you'll dress and start thinking about how to "capture and lead her
imagination." Think about his notion that you never know what type she'll
go for, so always go for it. Once you hear Ross express ideas like these, you
tend to think deeply and change your attitude in the process, even if you abandon
the specific ideas in the end.
I'll give my own experience as an example. I play sports that bring me in contact
with some athletic women in their early 20's. I had myself convinced these women
were unobtainable. After listening to Ross' course, however, I lay awake at
night imagining how I would seduce these women using Ross' techniques. The fact
is, that I never seduced a single woman using Ross' techniques. However, believing
in the power of his approach, my confidence level shot through the roof and
that in itself got me trying things until I found something that works.
The specific adjustments I had to make included Sis' ideas. In particular, I
found I needed to use a little more humor. It was in me all along, I just needed
to bring it out more. I also needed to slow down a little, which I think makes
me appear less needy. These were not big adjustments, but they made big differences.
Whatever the case, I'm in a zone now and getting the results I want.
I'm suggesting that the key thing is the attitude you project. If your projecting
the right stuff, then go for it. If going for it isn't working, then you need
to make adjustments until your projecting the right attitude.
Then you can be more straight forward. Ross, Sis, or Mystery may help you to
get the right attitude, even if you don't end up doing just what they do.
A final and controversial point I'd like to make is that way to much garbage
has been written ragging on the dating frame. Avoiding dating is just another
way of getting you away from your a mindset that's defeating you. The best PUA
I know personally, a PUA with a lifetime score way in excess of 100, ordinarily
operates within the dating frame. Dating does not equal no sex. In my experience
of dating, fucking usually begins around the third date. I can wait that long
for a good pussy, a pussy that I'm probably going to have for as long as I want.
If you need to turn over women so fast you can't wait for the third get-together,
if you can turn women over that
fast, God love you. While I have found it better to avoid a conventional date,
my imagination
often fails to come up with an immediate alternative. Yes, I have blown money
on a woman and felt like an ass for doing it. On the other hand, as your antenna
get better tuned, I think that happens less often. You begin to tell the difference
between one that's really interested and one that's just willing to go with
you. I think if you've connected with a woman, taking her out to dinner before
fucking her is no worse than kissing her before feeling her tits. It's all
kind of a natural order, which seems to make them feel comfortable.
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Brother Marcus Surrealius:
(Commenting on: "Cliff: Put all this together and once you have a woman
who has her children and a settled home life, does this mean that at that point
she feels free and is most likely to indulge in extra-marital activities? If
we can put away the politically correct response that this probably immediately
engenders, it seems to me to be a natural progression. What do you think?"):
A great out-of-print book called The Erotic Silence of the American Wife goes
into this. It isn't so much the home and kids that make women hungry for extracurricular
fun, it is the fact that she often falls for the trap of making a happy home
and a happy child substitutes for HER OWN happiness.
The Erotic is more than just sex. It is enjoyment and pleasure in life overall.
The ambient culture says to women that in order to be a good wife, they have
to put others' enjoyment and satisfaction above their own. It smothers them,
quite simply. It's their own decision, but they aren't told about the long-term
consequences up front.
So I would have to agree that, given the cultural demands on her, it WOULD be
natural for her to progress to wanting someone outside of her marriage. I often
think that this would be the reason that women like weddings so much more than
men -- they give up more by getting married, so they want to make sure the party
is REALLY good. Have you ever been walking with a woman along the sidewalk and
suddenly happen by a bridal shop? It happened to me once. I hadn't done any
seductive groundwork on her up to that point, but the TRANCE she went into at
the sight of the wedding dress...WHOA. I kissed her right there, no resistance.
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PRODUCTS AND LINKS (There's some NEW STUFF in here, and I will try and put something new in here as often as possible):
For those of you who are just reading about this for the first time, I decided a couple of emails ago to add links to these emails. The idea would be to get enough money in to hire someone to take over the administrative work (and also to buy things which would improve this list, such as proper mailing list software) for this list. If you were going to buy the product anyway, just use the link that appears below and you are helping to keep this list going at no extra cost to anyone.
NON SEDUCTION-RELATED SITES
One of the more useful links I have set up is to amazon.com -- I know I buy
a lot from them and I am sure that many of you also do. So I arranged a link
with them and you can now buy from them and help out this email newsletter at
the same time. If anyone has any other suggestions of sites that would be a
good one for me to set up a link to, please let me know.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/redirect-home/nositeihaveap-20 For those in
the U.K., this should work: http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/redirect-home?tag=cliffslist-21&site=amazon
Here's a way for you to accept credit cards on your site today: http://zzz.clickbank.net/r/?cliffslist
RECOMMENDED LIST
DOUBLE YOUR DATING One of the best places for you to start your journey on becoming
more successful with women would be to get David DeAngelo's Double Your Dating
e-book. David (who posts here under the name "Sisonpyh" -- which is
"hypnosis" spelled backwards) is a good friend that I have known for
several years now that I originally met through one of Ross's Speed Seduction
seminars. His posts here have been among the most outstanding contributions
I have had over the years and his book (and the free bonuses) is highly recommended.
http://www.doubleyourdating.com/cl/ HOW TO SUCCEED WITH WOMEN Ron Louis and
David Copeland have been reading these emails for awhile and recently sent me
their Mastery Program Tape series which I have finished listening to. It has
some very good stuff on it and that, in combination with other pieces that you
can pick up here and from the other products mentioned can be a help. For those
who are just starting out learning how to deal with women, this is an excellent
basic daily course to take you through the process of dealing with women. For
those who are more advanced, you should pick up a few good ideas from this set
of tapes.
http://www.howtosucceedwithwomen.com/cgi-bin/at.cgi?a=169700 SEVEN MAGIC WORDS
Comments on this product from Tony B.:
I thought I might drop you a quick line regarding some of the more popular sites
that have been seen within this "seduction community." After seeing
several terrible reviews and "flames" from alt.seduction.fast, I decided
to make a decision for myself based upon my own ideas of what could be offered
on the Seven Magic Words product and after several months of reading great novels
about how to attract women and multiple posts about how women are most attracted
to men, I STILL found the site to be beneficial. After joining the site, I was
happy to learn all the new techniques that I have never seen on any list and
that alone made it worth the money. I am not typically the type of person that
spends money on a site especially a seduction site, I would rather pay for some
audio or video, but the information that was offered was different and unequal
to anything I have seen in the past. At any rate, I know you wanted a review..
and I have actually come to know the owner, and he puts more attention in his
members area than I would expect to see from any other site.
http://hop.clickbank.net/?cliffslist/smackudown DATING INSIDER Not only does
this next site give you an unconditional 1 year no risk money back guarantee,
but it stands alone and it's program is unmatched. Right now they're doing a
Free Trial period, and I'd take advantage of this while you can. The site reads
"Learn the proven secrets for meeting, attracting, and seducing women.
From A - Z, you'll discover the most advanced techniques for picking up women
ever developed." Check out their Free Trial (before it ends) and you'll
see why their members like this program so much. Click on
http://www.dating-insider.com/international/welcome.html.
How to Lay Girls Guide The ultimate SEDUCTION SECRETS database: http://www.layguide.com/cgi-bin/affiliates/clickthru.cgi?id=Cliffslist
NEW RECOMMENDATIONS:
I have finished reading The Sexual Key and it is one of the best works I have
read about understanding the language that women respond to. I give this a strong
recommendation and the price is right, too. The book, and/or its companion book,
Gut Instinct (which I will be reviewing) can be downloaded off the net for $39.97
each or $49.97 for both.
http://hop.clickbank.net/?cliffslist.sexualkey
THE UNKNOWN! (Not reviewed)
HYPNO-TECH Here's another one which I think has been reviewed here in the past
but I haven't gone through the old emails to check. "Do You Want To Know
A Simple, Two Minute Hypnotic Technique That Lets YOU Secretly Put Any Woman
Into An Instant Trance And Persuades Her To Ask YOU Out?
http://hop.clickbank.net/?cliffslist/hypnotech ADVANCED MACKING Advanced Macking
has one of the most enticing websites. An updated review would also be welcome.
http://links.verotel.com/cgi-bin/showsite.verotel?vercode=66629804000000274976
This one also looked pretty interesting. The link for more information on breakups
and loving-styles is http://hop.clickbank.net/?cliffslist/Tigress Success Secrets
Our free newsletter reveals it all Money and Personal Finance secrets; Business
& Marketing secrets; Health, Fitness, and Weight-Loss advice; Self Defense
secrets; Memory Improvement tips; Smart Advice on Flirting, Dating, Sex, and
Relationships; Personal Development tips; Communication and Negotiation tips;
Tax Secrets & Loopholes!
Investment and Stock Market tips; and Much More http://hop.clickbank.net/?cliffslist/prodeskcom
The Ultimate Guide to Powerful Relationships is only $8.95 and looks very interesting.
Comments, please. http://hop.clickbank.net/?cliffslist/unicades Here's a new
one I found which needs to be reviewed: "Guys! Get More Pussy with our
Adult Personals Inside Secrets Guide! Plus! Free Survey Results of Women Using
Personals for Sex The Guide contains the following Inside Secrets Replying to
ads - how to get noticed and get a date for hot sex.
Placing ads - how to beat the competition and get lots of replies How to handle
follow up communication to keep her interested. Examples of replies that worked
on us. You can just copy and paste these into your ads or replies. Saves you
time and increases your chances! A directory of the best websites for meeting
hot women! Sick of chicks who are only into cybersex and nothing else! The Guide
contains a list of the best adult personals sites."
http://secure.ibill.com/cgi-win/ccard/rscookie.exe?RevShareID=9804000000274976&
returnto=http://www.mysexinfo.com
Secrets of Power Persuasion! A course by Jian Wang to teach you how to write
hypnotic language to make others obey your command.
http://hop.clickbank.net/?cliffslist/mrchange (if this doesn't work, try this:
http://www.mrchange.com/?hop=cliffslist.mrchange, but both worked for me) Arte's
New Sex Video is kind of interesting. He shows a lot about playing with a woman's
g spot (which he demonstrates on his comely girlfriend - but I could have done
without seeing your dick, Arte). I will do a more extensive review after I have
watched it again more carefully: http://amos.simonweb.com/loveebook/affiliates/clickthru.cgi?id=lrec
HERE'S A NEW ONE
Suspect your spouse of cheating on you? Check this out http://hop.clickbank.net/?cliffslist/spouse1
FREE PLUGS
The following are all recommended but clicking on the links and buying from
them doesn't send any money back here (it is also recommended that the sponsors
of these sites consider setting this up -- from the little experience I have
had since I started the commercial section a couple of weeks ago, I think you
are missing a lot of business by not doing this) http://www.speed-seduction.com/
- The # 1 source; read the free newsletters & get the basic course.
http://www.trucor.com/ - Major Mark's site, the place to learn hypnosis and
about married women
http://www.essential-skills.com/ - learn anchoring, tonality, rapport, goal
getting, etc.
http://www.davidshade.com/ Give women incredible pleasure get David Shade's
Manual
http://www.fastseduction.com/ - great resource, a must visit http://www.sosuave.com/
- lots of free materials, many good ideas and articles http://www.mindcontrolmanual.com/
- seduce men and women through the power of the mind
http://www.oscarbruce.com/ - All his books deal with perusasion, manipulation
and a mild form of seduction. Books like School for Scoundrels focus on getting
your way with people and getting them to see things your way.
Get on Mystery's Lounge - send him an email at [email protected] (note
this new email address) with REQUEST MEMBERSHIP in the subject line.
Include your REAL name, your experience, background in the PUA, some online
PUA's who can vouch for you (references), and a real pic of yourself. If you
do not wish to give this REAL information, don't join. Only the PRO's are in
there anyways - we discuss lots of stuff but it's the REAL pix of our conquests
and the fact that we don't HIDE who we are to each other that makes it appealing.
MANY of the members Mystery has personally sarged with.
The rule is simple don't fuck up anyone's game. If you can abide by that and
have a track record for contributing, then that's basically good as gold. Pix
are a requirement, however. The Lounge is in many ways an EXTENSION of Cliff's
List and is not an alternative. You don't have to be a PRO, but you MUST play
the game. If you are only WANTING to ONE DAY chase skirts, please don't bother
joining.
Mystery is now offering his in-field Mystery Method (MM) BASIC TRAINING workshop
in several cities. Click www.mysterymethod.com for more information, workshop
locations, dates & to sign up.
Playerware which is designed specifically for men who like to date and interact
with a large number of women. The program is essentially an electronic chick
organizer. It contains features such as contact management, photo storage, an
electronic journal, a sophisticated rating and comparison system, date/interaction
tracking, as well as other unique features. Visit the site and you can get a
40 day free trial. Full registration is currently only
$15. http://www.playerware.com/default.asp?refid=10
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New Links to be explored (WE NEED THESE REVIEWED!): 1) The website reads as
follows and we need someone's review of this: "Impress everybody! Make
your life happen on purpose! Matthew Whiting an English and Psychology graduate
from Canterbury University and later a graduate of The National Academy of Performing
Arts, has created this revolutionary step-by-step training system which will
give you the means to becoming irresistibly attractive. Hence enabling you to
gain the relationship and life that you want. Whether it is on stage or in real
life we all know the "x" factor when we see it! But can we produce
our own individual "x factor"? In this book Matthew Whiting's radical
new approach to "being irresistibly attractive" will show you how
to: Master these personal strategies to become more Charismatic: · Learn
how to be master of your own intention · Taking action
· Being a successful leader
· Learning confidence
· ...and a lot more...
Master these personal strategies for more Passion: · How to be funny
· Leaving a lasting impression
· How to utilize the power of speech
· Extraordinary kissing
· Flirting - a delightful, innocent, and respectful way to play with
each other!
· ...and a lot more...(18 Chapters in total!) This book is jam-packed
with tonnes of information, (185 A4-size pages). It is written in a tongue-in-cheek
manner which is easy to follow, and you are sure to enjoy. Once you experience
the marvelous changes that Matthew Whiting enables you to make, you can shape
your relationships and other life circumstances exactly as you'd like them to
be." http://hop.clickbank.net/?cliffslist/unicades 2) How to create sexual
chemistry! This one looks interesting -- we need a review!
http://www.attractwomennow.com/cgi-bin/affiliates/clickthru.cgi/Cliffslist 3)
Welcome to CheekyCherry.co.uk, home of what has been called the bible of 'attracting
women, keeping them and sleeping with them'.
http://www.cheekycherry.co.uk/Main_categories/seduction_and_dating/dating_guide.html
4) Courses for women to seduce men!
http://www.ihrt.co.uk/seductionsystems/text%20gals.htm 5) Guys Guide to Girls
- A guide to relationships. How to overcome shyness and understand your partner...
http://www.philipov.com/guys1.htm 6) Wally's Seduction Tips for Desperate Bachelors
http://www.wallyandmurk.com/wally/sedution/Wallymag.html 7) Help with seduction
- for women who want to seduce men.
http://www.seducehim.com/
8) The website reads as follows and we need someone's review of this: "Ladies!
Never date a stranger unless you've checked him out first!
Fortunately, a basic background check is an easy thing to do, via the telephone
and the Internet. In just a matter of minutes, you can find out a great deal
on your own about any potential date (or even your fiance' or husband) using
the simple, free background check techniques described in our new "how-to"
manual.
CHECK HIM OUT FIRST! "Check Him Out! - The American Woman's Guide to Background
Investigations" guides you through the entire background check process
using clear, nontechnical language. You'll be amazed to learn that there's a
lot that can be done just by using the telephone intelligently!
Without even touching a computer, you can usually verify someone's name, address,
age, occupation, and even marital status over the telephone if you know which
government public records office to call and what information to ask for. "Check
Him Out!" is written for you -- the American woman with no knowledge of
public records and background checks, but with a need to do some quick basic
checking. It's easy to follow, and while it won't make you a seasoned "gumshoe,"
it will make you quite knowledgeable about the subject and will teach you all
you need to know to conduct a thorough basic background check on your own --
plus, it will show you where and how to get competent, reasonably priced help
if you later decide you want a more complex, in-depth background check done.
All this for $11.95 is hard to beat!" http://hop.clickbank.net/?cliffslist/washres
9) For those of you interested in being a bigger man, check out: http://www.angelfire.com/amiga/yourown/bigdickie.htm
10)What Every Man Should Know About Women! Learn the secrets to getting more
dates
than you thought were possible in the year 2001. What works, and what doesn't
work. How to spend less money and less time, to meet more women, and get more
dates. Self-Improvement skills for single men is what this material is all about!
Don't waste your time and money, get the facts on how to find Love efficiently
and effectively! Tired of not getting Lucky? Luck is when preparation meets
opportunity.
These Articles are guaranteed to teach you how to get and stay prepared, and
how to use the Internet to find more dates than you thought possible.
The information in these Articles will produce Ten Times the results of any
professional dating service. This material includes everything you need to get
own track. You need not purchase any other books. Our Total price for everything
is only $19.95 with a full
refund guarantee, if not 200% satisfied that this material will pay for itself
many
times over. http://www.howmengetdates.com/
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