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Paul:
It would be great if you could give my site a review in your newsletter at some
point... www.rampantrabbit.com
Cliff's Comment: I haven't had time to do more than visit the site, but it looks like a lot of fun and there's a lot of stuff relating to seduction there. Someone else should visit it and give us a more detailed review.
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Mark B.:
Very few actually admit to having a borefriend. If there is another guy in the
picture they usually downplay his role and say something like "Oh, there
is this guy but we are not serious or anything" which means she is serious
and wants to let me know there is someone else but wants to underplay his role
in order to keep the door open for herself. Married women tend to be more up
front about being married. When they say they have one, I do the following.
I say "I am not interested in your husbore or borefriend. I am interested
in you, getting to know you and giving you all the fun times and great passionate
nights that you can imagine." If she says "Do you want to be my boyfriend?"
which they do a lot, I say "As long as he is in the picture our relationship
can only be sexual. He has to leave before we can discuss anything else."
If they say they are not open to it, I say "Here is my number. My offer
stands. When you are open to exploring having your needs fulfilled as a woman
you can feel free to call me." Then I leave her alone.
When they give me an opening, I try to keep the focus away from the other guy
and on her and our potential together. I try not to put him down or play him
up but ignore him completely. After all it's her and I that matters here, not
him. I have found that I have been able to appeal to a woman much better by
showing her advantages of being with me while ignoring him instead of pointing
out any
disadvantages of being with him. I also found that if I try to put him down
women tend to get defensive as if I am insulting their ability to make right
decisions and good choices. So the attack on him is a judgement on her ability
to choose, which is a subtle insult and this I try to avoid at all costs. She
will see for herself that I am a better choice as a result of spending time
with me and feeling good about herself with me. So to answer your question,
I destroy him by ignoring him and making her feel good about being with me so
she can see what she is missing by being with him herself and what she is gaining
by being with me.
(Commenting on: "Put all this together and once you have a woman who has
her children and a
settled home life, does this mean that at that point she feels free and is most
likely to indulge in extra-marital activities?"):
MB: In my view, she does not even need to be settled but enticed enough with an offer of excitement and fulfillment in her life with something of high value or with something that fulfills something missing in her life.
(Commenting on: "CPowles100: They say, "He's so cute and sexy that
I just want to jump his bones..." This may be the same fat and ugly guy,
but he's convinced them (and they've
convinced themselves) that he is sexual and desirable."):
MB: I believe this happens because he is really cute and sexy to her even if not to us and it has to do with the fact that he may be really her type irrespective of other factors. In other words, if he is fat and ugly and she is with him, it's because that is what attracts her physically. I seriously doubt that he can win her over if there is no attraction whatsoever and if he is not her type purely on the basis of personality or "techniques." Kira Kenner, a stunning porn star, said in an interview once, that she prefers men with large beer bellies because she likes the warmth of a big gut and that is sexy to her. http://www.2xtreme.net/stuff/angel/kirakener.html A few weeks ago I was listening to a radio program which features men who love fat women, the fatter the better. If men can have those sorts of perverse attractions why should we assume that some beautiful women would not find some fat men or men out of the norm of attractiveness equally attractive and assume that these men were only able to get them on the basis of personality, patterns etc?
(Commenting on: "A lot of women sleep with guys they aren't attracted
to AT FIRST. But over
time (be it ten minutes or two months), they can become attracted to that guy.
How? They call it magic, chemistry, whatever. But you and I know what it really
is..."):
MB: Yeah, sure. Women, just like men, know whether or not they are attracted
to
someone when they first meet them. Women just tend to not want to give themselves
away too soon by revealing their attraction too early and not appear slutty
or easy. This is why they say it took them time. Women themselves in their moments
of trust have revealed this to me.
(Commenting on: "Furthermore, it sounds like you depend too much on alcohol
as a crutch.
Alcohol just gives a lot of women an excuse to do what they already want to
do deep inside. You can give them that excuse without alcohol."):
MB: You misunderstood. Re-read carefully please. I do not drink and neither do any women when I am out with them. What I meant was that a drunk woman may sleep with a man she is not attracted to because she is drunk, nothing else.
(Commenting on: "Again, I see your point here, and overall you are right.
But it is framed
in a self-defeating attitude about looks. Yes, women can be into looks and giggle
over attractive guys. But at the same time, the guy who looks more interesting,
or more dangerous, or more exciting can win out. And we are only talking about
first impressions. We've been through this a million times here. So try thinking
about it this way: at the end of the night, the women go home not with the guys
who are the best looking, but with the guys who are the least boring. (Plus,
who says women go home with the men "of their choosing." That's what
I used to think. I choose women now, and if I can let them THINK that they chose
me, all the better."):
MB: Listen. When I am in my best shape: lean, full, tanned and wear a night T-shirt women drool over me even though I ignore them and treat them like crap, mismatch, say little, insult them and they come back for more. When my shape is off, my tan is gone and I wear bigger clothes no matter how "interesting, or more dangerous, or more exciting" I am, little happens. It seems when my look is on I have to do very little and can get virtually 40-50% of the women I approach to come home or get to go out with me.
(Comments on: "Joseph: I don't get rejected, in the real world, but sometimes
a woman puts me in a category or "dating frame" because she is ignorant
of the opportunity she is
missing. Either she has the wool over her eyes, or she has bad taste.
Either way, she is
the one missing out, because 99.99% of the men on this earth can't do what I
can do with women."):
MB: Once again, you may think you are the best in your own mind but you are not the answer to every woman's dreams and neither is every other man on earth the answer to every woman. Some humility please.
(Commenting on: "So they get stuck with a man who doesn't have the power
to give them an
orgasm by anchoring it and giving it to them anytime they want with just a touch.
Who is missing out more? Me or her? There are plenty of other women who are
smart enough to see the opportunity and take it when it is offered."):
MB: Boy. If you could give a woman an orgasm just by touching her, then why
are you not on National TV or Oprah as the "man who could give women orgasms
just by touching them". It's dangerous to buy into something that easily
as you did into NLP. NLP is an opinion and a way but, like everything in this
world, it's healthy to be skeptical before accepting something as totally and
faithfully as you seem to have done. Personally, I believe you can get a woman
to think of an orgasm by anchoring it and even get her pussy to pulsate but
not actually give her one equal to that of one she was actually fucking or getting
oral. That would require her to be in the right mental and physiological state
as well as relaxed enough to let herself go.
Otherwise, all sex would stop and all we would do is just think about it and
get the same feeling. I believe that only the highest trained Buddhist Yogis
could do that. Could you make yourself cum just by thinking of Pam Anderson
giving you a blow job? Thought so...
Cliff's Comment: There is a lot of precedent to getting women to have orgasms quickly and easily via hypnosis. I suggest you visit David Shade's site (see below).
(Mark B. commenting on; "In my real world experience I agree that if you
hide your intent, you get shot down. Anytime I have tried to "hook up"
with a woman on some other
pretext besides getting to know her, I have failed. However, I would be being
very dishonest if I used your approach. I guess you can tell just by looking
at a woman that you want to spend "passionate nights" with her. I
can't."):
MB: I suggest you try saying that. Once I had a date with a girl where before the date she told me that she is sick of men who just want to fuck her soon when they meet her so I held back. She asked me to call her when I got home and I did. She thanked me for a great night and I said "You know I wanted to be respectful to you. I could have said 'let's get a motel room and fuck each other's brains out' but I did not." She said "Well you should have." So it's better to go for it and get shot down then not go for it and lose an opportunity.
(Commenting on: "What if she can't string three words together to make
a sentence? What if
she is frigid? What if she has no sense of humour and brings everyone around
her down with her poor energy? I am not being indirect when using SS. I let
a woman know she is attractive on the walk-up by a sincere compliment, but MY
intent is to find out whether she is the kind of person I'd like to get to know
better."):
MB: "I could not help to notice you are a marvel of genetic perfection"
is not the core of NLP. What if she is a drone? You will still find out but
after you've made your intent known, you may end up with the same result but
at least you've made your intent known and maybe you could even get her. I've
had women with an intellect
equal to that of an amoeba but they made for some wild nights, so who cares?
If she is frigid, I challenge her attitude, have fun with it.
(Commenting on: "I don't know I'm going to want to fuck her until we've talked."):
MB: Come on, man. You can't be serious here. 100% of all guys I know including me, know whether or not they would sleep with a woman as soon as they see her. It's then up to her to turn us off by her attitude, not the other way around. If I see Halle Berry and she turns out to have an IQ of 20 but is willing to fuck, I am not turning her down. After all, it's her body I want not her brain when I am fucking her. It seems to me you have bought in too much into this NLP business at the expense of all other lines of thinking.
(Commenting on: "Or if you had more fully learned the SS tapes you bought
and learned the
techniques, you would be the one who can make women hallucinate and have orgasms
just by talking to you. Then you would be much more valuable than a rock star
or millionaire. Even if you didn't show your intent and happen to just do it
for fun with a couple chicks who you were talking with. Then they would be telling
their friends and you would be the guy who sends women into states of ecstasy
just by talking."):
MB: I cannot believe what you just said. "you would be the one who can make women hallucinate and have orgasms just by talking to you" - show me one guy who can do this and I'll bow at your feet. NLP is Neuro Linguistic Programming. Notice how NLP says nothing about women. SS is NLP coupled with certain beliefs and attitudes about yourself and women, some of which may or may not be accurate. To me NLP and SS is about getting into the mind of a woman by talking. I want to get to her body. I accomplish this by suggesting what I want and can do to her and how I can make her feel thereby making her long for the real thing. Besides, if you could give women orgasms by touching them on the wrist, why would they want to fuck you? Tell them what you want to do to them and what you can do so that they will want to experience that with you.
(Commenting on: "I have studied most of what you mentioned as well and
I look back and laugh at almost everything but the SS and Sis's stuff. Those
stupid "dating
books" kept me from getting laid quite a few times. Sis's stuff isn't nearly
as powerful, but it gives some great ideas about being funny and having a fun
time with teasing people harmlessly."):
MB: No one but no one has ever suggested in any books I have ever read on women to be up front with your desires right away. But I once read a book about a woman who studied the Mustang Ranch, a Vegas brothel. One of her conclusions suggested that the majority of men who used the services of a prostitute have real problems with asserting their sexual needs for one reason or another. So there - make your needs known openly and you will not need any techniques or books or systems. I believe that a book or system that suggested being up front would be too short and seem far too easy to do to make any sales. The more complicated a system of style seems the "better or more effective" it appears. Also, why would anyone really give away the real secrets and empower their competition?
(Commenting on: "Precisely. Perhaps our definitions of rejection are different.
In my world,
to get rejected you have to "try out for something." You know, like
a job application or a position on a sports team. I never try out for positions
as HB's lovers or boyfriends. However, I do give them a chance to fill out an
application themselves. If they don't want to take it, I don't consider that
I'm being rejected. If I thought of it like that, then I guess I would think
that every American who isn't attending Harvard has rejected Harvard's offer
to accept students. After all, they DID make the applications available."):
MB: I think that you equate rejection only to it being verbal. When you walk up to a woman and you make a comment and she walks away, she is rejecting your non-verbal intent to talk and on and on. Regarding Harvard, you would reject them when they made you a direct offer and you declined but to not take them up on their general offer is not really rejection because there was no direct contact or intent between either of you specifically. Hence the word indifference.
(Commenting on: "Well, me too. I usually only give "applications"
to HB 9's and 10's. Doesn't
mean they'll pass."):
MB: Then you must be a real star. I only wish I could walk up to a hot babe and say "I would like you to impress me so that I could figure out whether I would want to go out with you" like you can. Teach me how to do this.
(Commenting on: "Yeah, I like that. "It went nowhere." "We
didn't connect." Seems alot better
attitude than saying "She rejected me."):
MB: It's just semantics. Rejection by any other word is still rejection and really it's not so bad when it happens, laugh at it.
(Commenting on: "Well, then she just needs to stick around to hear the
"Looking vs. Seeing
Pattern." If she doesn't, no sweat, let her stick to "her type"
and wait years between orgasms as the majority of women do. What truly fulfills
women is her "type" of seduction, not her "type" of man.
Ross teaches guys how to elicit her perfect seduction, and then put it into
use. Sometimes we have to show them that this is true, cuz they usually don't
know."):
MB: This is where you need to be consistent. First, you say you decide if you
want them, then you say you figure out how "to elicit her perfect seduction".
This is a contradiction. Why not seduce her your way, the male way? Have her
fall into your lap, not the other way around. Say "This is me and what
I have to offer and it would be good for you if you are open to it."
(Commenting on: "Cool, then we can be friends...unless of course her boyfriend
is only
fulfilling a role. After all, my intent wasn't to fuck her, it was to find out
if she was the kind of person I'd like to get to know better."):
MB: Sorry, but my intent is first to fuck her. If she is good then I can choose to get to know her better, but not backward like you suggest. Many times I just stuck around until I fucked her and then left because of some annoying personal attribute. But I am not interested in being friends with any woman that I want to fuck and she does not.
(Commenting on: "Then it's my job to change her mind and show her the
error of her ways, if
I choose to accept her "application."):
MB: Many times you end up beating a dead horse. If they are not open then better to move on to more willing participants.
(Commenting on: "But that's my whole point. If I were applying for a job,
and I did my very
best, but someone right next to me got the job instead, I'd feel defeated, rejected.
But if I were just talking to the owner to have fun, and mention that I'd
like to work in a place like this, then he might not offer me a job for many
reasons, not just because I'm not worthy. Hell, like you said, she might not
be accepting applications, so how can you get rejected if there's no job to
apply for?"):
MB: I think your goal is to avoid rather than gain. If you set your goal to gain something, then you will stop worrying about rejection. But when your goal is to avoid rejection, you prevent yourself from being at your best which guarantees it causing you to try less next and sending you into a vicious circle of less effort and less results and less effort and less result and...
(Commenting on: "But haven't you seen beautiful, fun women with Jabba
the Hut look alikes? I
have. I'm sure the fat didn't attract them. It must have been something else...."):
MB: Yes I have, read my comments above.
(Commenting on: "Yes, I know a few guys like that. However, there are many women who won't sleep with guys who are so attractive because he doesn't realize his own attractiveness and kisses ass when he meets a girl he really likes. If Brad started developed a crush on Penelope Cruz and acted silly over her, supplicating and kissing ass, he might not get that pussy."):
MB: Guys supplicate because the woman has no interest in him to begin with
so he supplicates thinking he needs to do more to get her. If she liked Brad
Pitt back and he sent her flowers, kissed her ass and went out of his way, she
would
love him for it. I believe it's incorrect to think that women do not show interest
because guys do too much. Women do not show interest because they are just not
interested and many times nothing you can do will turn her around.
(Commenting on: "Well, I'm no master. I hope to be able to one day. I
think that if a woman
is turned off by you on the initial approach, it's pretty tuff to install attraction.
But if she's just neutral, then you can install it if you're good enough. Unless
you smell or something, you're usually at least going to be neutral in her eyes.
Unless of course she is a snob, in which case who wants her anyway?"):
MB: A friend of mine once met a bunch of women at a club. Shortly after meeting
them he said the word "big tits." They banished him for the night
until the very
end when they asked him to come back with them to their room. He ended up fucking
all
three of them. I know because I met two of these women later and they verified
his
story. He is also a great looking guy. So attraction is there or it's not and
if it's there, (even a tiny bit) your goal is not to fuck up thereby enhancing
it rather than trying to create something which is not there.
(Commenting on: "I think that no one gave them a deep connection at the
club, so they
settled. Doesn't necessarily need to be emotional- the experience needed depends
upon the woman."):
MB: There is overall too much emphasis on deep connection being the sole factor for getting a woman interested. How about being funny, being natural and comfortable, attracted to the other person, having a sense of humour, a common language, common views, etc. These are all important parts that help create connection.
(Commenting on: "NightLight9 commenting on Mark B.'s comments on tanning.
I agree that tanning is a great technique. It makes you LOOK healthier with
a better complexion and more rugged. (worked for JFK...) It works just as well
for women. Don't over do it, but I think it's a great tool."):
Guys: You gotta think long term. Sure tans look great--but there is no such
thing as a healthy tan. Sure JFK and Cary Grant could get away with it back
in the day, we had an ozone layer back then. You should be wearing sunscreen
everyday, even in winter. This year some sun damage showed up on my cheek, and
it looks fucking gross to me. (My dermatologist says that it doesn't look so
bad: "Max you have so little sun damage, your friends are going to be jealous
of you for decades.") I am an insomniac bookworm/barfly who rarely sees
the light of day. In my early 20's I knew an HB10 who also happened to be a
genius. I thought she was weird for wearing sunscreen every day, even in the
winter (and this is in the ever-cloudy Pacific
Northwest!) Now I realize that she was even smarter than I thought.
Neutrogena has a great sunscreen in stick form: its almost completely invisible.
Don't just think skin cancer, it'll slow down other signs of aging as well.)
Cliff's Comment: I dated a stripper last year who said that a guy with a tan
was a huge attraction. Those who know me know I am Mr. Pale and stay out of
the sun like poison (it is the number one cause of making people look older)
so while I appreciated the advice, the trade off isn't worth it to me.)"):
MB: I use the artificial type of sunlight in a tanning bed. For me the biggest
difference I noticed is the large number of unsolicited positive responses
from women and a huge increase in responsiveness from women I actually pursue
while I am tanned versus when I am not. As far as aging goes I would rather
live
large for 20 years than average for 50.
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Jeff (Commenting on: "GameMaster:
For the following, the names have been changed to protect my ass! I was visiting
the family over Thanksgiving and by the luck of the draw was seated at a table
with my cousin Jamie. I don't think I've ever mentioned her but every family
should have at least one Jamie to stare at when you run out of boring conversation.
She would be your basic movie star package if she weren't so shy...a 28 year
old school teacher and church goer minus a boyfriend for about 4 years. Anyway,
the bloody Mary's were flowing and the shit was getting pretty deep at my table,
Jamie was playing casual observer without much to say until someone asked me
what I was doing in my spare time! I thought what the fuck, out with it..."I
teach guys how to hypnotize and seduce women." No reaction from anybody
at the table (just more weird shit from me), except Jamie perked right up and
said "Tell me about that". Holeee Shit, the door was standing wide
open, and BTW, she lives in Alabama so it's OK to have impure thoughts about
your cousins down there and I'd been having those thoughts for a while. "Well,
it's like this, it's not classical hypnosis....and nobody can be seduced really
unless that's 'what you want'. It's more like, well do you like to hear stories,
don't you? Well, I like to tell stories, I hear sometimes that alone can be
very hypnotic...the seduction thing is just a by-product, I guess. At least
it's not intended that way, and it would never work on you....but look, I have
to meet my ex-GF Angela down here next week for a beer and if you'd like a demonstration,
I'll pick up the tab. She's your age and I think you guys would be great friends".
The trap was set, Jamie said she's love to get to get together...all very innocent
right - I just want to introduce her to a "new" friend! Classic plausible
deniability.
Anyway, I called her the next day and asked her to meet us for drinks on Saturday
at 5:00....Jamie said it would have to be earlier because the "Iron Bowl"
was on the TV and she wanted to be "at home" for the game.
BINGO! She suggested 2:00 was better for her...I said I'd set it up. She arrived
at exactly 2:00 looking just perfect...pure, virginal, radiant. I flirted with
a twinge of guilt as she ordered a Marguerita. Fluff, fluff, fluff....I told
her about an interesting article I had read about Royal bloodlines in Europe
that extend to the Americas and how they are all related in some form or another
and can all trace the bloodline back to Charlemagne and Ramses, including the
Bush family (which BTW IS related to the British Royals). Anyway, this seemed
like all very innocent conversation and at 2:20 precisely, I had my friend Dave
call my cell to "make an excuse" for Angela! Oh my, she's stuck at
work and can't get away till later - too bad! "Sorry Jamie, Angela can't
make it ....but look, why don't we just hang out here until the game starts
and we can just have some intelligent conversation for a change. You can meet
Angela when I come home for Christmas...besides, that stuff would never work
on you, but you'll be amazed at the effect." Jamie ordered another drink
and settled in, I had a minor flash of an army of attorneys frantically writing
me out of the family will! Anyway, I did offer one example while we were killing
time...Ross' "caterpillar to a butterfly" story (I think that's on
the Masters Series, it's great). Jamie..."Wow"! I had just learned
Jamie was a very good subject, she dropped. I knew I would have to stay away
from anything sexual or overt...this was sensitive territory and Jamie was going
to have to connect her own dots. So I launched into a series of random but connected
classics like the "hot guy", "romantic hero," etc."):
This is sick! But it also got me hard. Could you post the hot guy, romantic hero, and rodeo patterns?
GameMaster Responds:
Clifford, the Romantic Hero pattern is a spin off from Mark's material. The
Hot Guy pattern I came up with to counter the age objection. I'm 48, and the
fact is that
I'm not as hot as I used to be. It's one of my lead patterns if I'm chatting
it up with anyone
under the age of ~35.
"You know, I was reading an article about trends in the new millennium,
and they were talking about everything from market forecasts, political trends
and how relationships will be viewed as we move into a new and different shift
in our focus and awareness. And they said that one of the vanishing trends of
the 90's is the "Hot Guy" syndrome. And they went on to describe this
as a reckless attraction to BOYS that really didn't have a lot going for them,
you know, guys that really don't have a lot to say or offer either mentally
or emotionally, nothing in the way of security, but they have enough sense to
keep their mouths shut while they're standing there looking so solemn...do these
guys even know how to smile? I think basically the message was that women who
were attracted to that type of guy had a lot of issues with their self esteem
and self worth and these guys fed off that and were prone to take advantage
of these women.
Well, this article said that what women really want NOW is a man that excites
their minds first, not only their passion, but brings them an intellectual stimulation
that inflames their passions even more than they have ever experienced. And
that through this sort of man, they have come to know far greater sexual gratification,
more emotional stability and a deeper spiritual connection than they ever dreamed
possible. And the article went
on to say that these guys were an even greater challenge, because once you experience
this....you would do almost anything to keep this right HERE, right in front
of you because you would never want to give this up, or share it
with anybody else.
And this is really nothing new...I mean you've seen absolutely gorgeous women
with guys that shouldn't even be allowed on the streets much less with a woman
of real quality....I mean real goofy looking guys, but somehow they have managed
to capture YOUR imagination....and that is the key to true fulfillment. And
some of these women went on to describe their sex lives like they were porn
stars....and they had no idea until they met this man...that allowed them to
just let go with all those emotions and to free themselves totally from society's
rules. And it was interesting that in some of the
interviews they had with these women... and I mean they were drop dead gorgeous....I
remember one said that now as she looks at a guy, she looks beyond what everyone
else sees, so as this face becomes more clearly defined in your mine, certain
things begin to happen, and as she listens carefully
to this voice, and it begins to penetrate your mine...it's then that she becomes
aware of changes that are taking place and she can feel the "...............
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Lovedrop:
Just wanted to say, for those who say "BULLSHIT" about NL9's approaches,
that I have hung out / sarged with Nightlight9 on several occasions in several
cities, and he does do approaches like this, and he does get a lot of success,
he is the real deal. He's constantly experimenting and improving, and his persona
in clubs is very engaging and positive. It's the natural result of his years
of theory and field work.
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TGB:
(Commenting on: "NightLight9: You don't have to say no, but keep in your
mind, your right to
say yes."):
Means "can I ask you a question.. I'm fearful of rejection but my opinion of you is that you're dumb either" in my book. I missed the 'nt. So I am dumb.
(Commenting on: "But I think this is best but is even worse from an NLP
standpoint.
Keep in mind, your right to say yes, if you want later you can always say no
then."):
That's training flakes. Your last point was: Keep in mind, your right to say yes, and if you say yes now, you always have options later.
(Commenting on: "Brenton: "You don't have to say yes, but keep in your mind, your right to say yes, or not" [...] upturn the tonality of the 'or not'"):
What was the question? There are things stuck in my mind.
(Commenting on "Mark B. Commenting on me: She is a friend of 12 years. We have never been romantic but we worked together for about 7 years while I was in high school and then in University and kept in touch after. She is not yet married but will chain herself to her current fiancé next summer. By brownie points do you mean "the brown point" - maybe she is into anal? Do you think this was her implicit way of telling me something? Perhaps."):
No, I didn't mean that she would tell you she's into anal or wants to fart
you a greeting. Her fiancé is having her heart after all, I just meant
to make you notice the very special and playful ANCHOR she gave you. (I do not
know what brownie points really are but I think they equal value - at least
honor). The hard part is to play your cards RIGHT. A playful response to your
sexual request can be covering emotional disturbance or even anger about it.
Your brownie point won't buy brownies. But you've waited 12 years, now you can
wait until the wicked 7th year just as easily.. I mean fire your anchor when
her husband ate half her heart out.
Brownie point - anchors temporarily unrequited sexual caring.
(Commenting on: "She is 25, 5'11", blonde, who used to model in her teenage years."):
You mentioned cell phone and email address... ;-D
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Dwacon http://www.sextoysex.com/sex/start/sex.html?a=dwacon: (Commenting on: "Cliff's Comment: It is a well known old adage that "a man is free when he's single and a woman is free when she's married."):
In my 20's, I found that married women were very easy to turn on but single
wimmin were like chipping through granite with a plastic fork. Back in those
days, my married secretary would have me stand behind her and massage her chest
through the top of her blouse... and she offered to blow me but I was young
and chik'n. Another woman invited me to her place and would send her husband
out to Chuck E Cheese with the kids. Yow! I was dismayed, since I wanted to
find a nice girl to settle down with and not a one-nighter.
Now that I am older and wiser, I respect a marriage too much... realizing that
what goes around comes around... but maybe that is inevitable? I have a married
neighbor (a cross between Jennifer Aniston and Christina Applegate) who has
been tempting me rather mightily. Especially tough when the singles give you
liquid nitrogen all the time.
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Night Crawler:
(Commenting on: "Cliff's Comment: Two nights ago I was out with a few friends
and we ended up at this club. One of them starts talking to this very attractive
woman and I was with him and I got introduced. He suddenly left me with her
and I was talking with her when she asks me if I am single. I tell her yes and
she tells me that she's been married for 9 years. After that, I talk to her
a couple of minutes and then leave and join my friend (in case you don't know,
I am not into married women). While with him, I tell him that she's married
(which makes no difference to him) and I told him Major Mark's famous question
that he says he has asked probably 10,000 women (who he had seen for hypnotherapy
in his clinic) "If you could have a wild, passionate
sexual affair with someone you were attracted to that you knew would not affect
your primary relationship, would you do it?" Mark says that he hasn't had
any of them say no (although I have personally had a few say no that I asked
a long time ago), and my friend thought this was brilliant so he went over and
asked her. She said she would, answering him without a
moment's hesitation. Nothing ended up happening (she was there with her company
attending the annual Xmas party, so it isn't surprising, on reflection, that
she wouldn't want any of her co-workers to see her acting slutty) but it got
me thinking. It is a well known old adage that "a man is free when he's
single and a woman is free when she's married." What also occurred to me,
in relation to my own experience is how men get their fulfillment from work
and when that is going well have an easier time to focus on women. It is said,
however, that how women get their fulfillment through having children and family.
Put all this together and once you have a woman who has her children and a settled
home life, does this mean that at that point she feels free and is most likely
to indulge in extra-marital activities? If we can put away the politically correct
response that this probably immediately engenders, it seems to me to be a natural
progression. What do you think?"):
These are just beliefs, Clifford. Night Crawler believes that Clifford has a 1950's model of the world. Night Crawler believes Clifford is superimposing his past experiences onto his current situation. Night Crawler believes this is a LOSER strategy. Night Crawler suggests Clifford try to find an ethical NLP practitioner (LOL) to help him resolve this conflict.
Cliff's Comment: "...superimposing (my) past experiences onto (my) current situation." Yeah, and isn't that normal to learn from one's experience? I don't follow what you are referring to - are you saying that I should be going after married women and that not going after a woman because she is married is a "1950's model of the world"? Everything is "just beliefs" and that is a fact. What is your point?
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Maximillian Hell:
(Commenting on: "Mark B: This approach virtually guarantees that you will
encounter resistance but that is the whole point for any resistance she gives
you is a way of her telling you what issues you need to address before she sleeps
with you or agrees to go out. Most men think that resistance or objections equals
rejection and that is why they avoid being upfront in
favour of being more subtle, i.e. cocky, funny patterns, etc. To me when a woman
says "I need to get to know a guy better," she is telling me what
it will take to get her and more importantly she is not saying "fuck off,
asshole" which is rejection. Objections and raising of concerns are not
rejection. Most people, though, see any signs of resistance as rejection which
it is not."):
This is the same as one of the lessons I learned from a good book on sales:
"Closing Techniques (That Really Work!)" The author, Stephen Schiffman,
says that when you get resistance or even rejection from a prospect, too many
salesmen interpret it as a lost cause. You should instead interpret it as an
opportunity to learn what problems or questions your prospect has with the
product you are selling. What you interpret as rejection may only be the prospect
thinking out loud, mulling the issues as it were. I am keen to try out MarkB's
technique, but I recently
learned that my school's sexual harassment edicts forbade "propositions."
I'll have to wait until break, unless I can think of some clever way around
it. Suggestions are welcome.
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NightLight9: (Commenting on: Cliff's Comment: This has always been the case for me as well. If I am not clear about my intentions, I am almost never successful. Letting a woman know where you are coming from (and it's not like you are telling a hot looking woman something she doesn't already know) puts her at ease. I am sure most of us have had the experience of being indirect and getting suspicious looks from them -- I believe that's deserved when you aren't clear. On the other hand, I know guys who only use the indirect approach and do very, very well. You have to use what works for you."):
NightLight9 responds: As someone who's seen you work, you are unable to be congruent with anything but extreme honesty. I don't know if Mark is the same way, but this (along with lack of practice) causes the experience you describe above. It's a fine model, but all models like this have limitations. I can be direct and indirect when I need to. I was talking to a sales girl once and I was dancing around sexual conversation in a flirty way. Finally my conversation was very mammary in metaphor, and she said "What are you thinking about right now?" I responded "Your tits" and she loved it. The two are not mutually exclusive.
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Dr. Vital:
(Commenting on Joseph's reply to Mark B. "I think that no one gave them
a deep connection at the club, so they settled. Doesn't necessarily need to
be emotional- the experience needed depends upon the woman."): Now change
that last word (woman) to man, and we can end this entire thread. Isn't rejection
itself a nominalization? You can't hold it in your hand... So it means something
different to everyone, both in how it works, whether it's real or not, exactly
how much damage it causes to be "rejected" etc. etc.
Ross' "I never get rejected" line is a basic reframe, designed to
take something that people give a lot of power over their lives and suddenly
make it seem powerless. Does it matter to me if you *actually* get rejected
or not?
Fuck no!
What matters is if it's making any different in the *results* you're getting,
so that I can move into your head space and try to model you. I need to discover
how to make it so that when some chyck decides she's going to pass up the best
thing that's come her way, I can take her bad attitude and turn it into pure
rocket fuel. I could care less whether I *really* got rejected or not. If I'm
looking for definitions I'll read a dictionary.
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PRODUCTS AND LINKS (There's some NEW STUFF in here, and I will try and put something new in here as often as possible):
For those of you who are just reading about this for the first time, I decided a couple of emails ago to add links to these emails. The idea would be to get enough money in to hire someone to take over the administrative work (and also to buy things which would improve this list, such as proper mailing list software) for this list. If you were going to buy the product anyway, just use the link that appears below and you are helping to keep this list going at no extra cost to anyone.
NON SEDUCTION-RELATED SITES
One of the more useful links I have set up is to amazon.com -- I know I buy
a lot from them and I am sure that many of you also do. So I arranged a link
with them and you can now buy from them and help out this email newsletter at
the same time. If anyone has any other suggestions of sites that would be a
good one for me to set up a link to, please let me know.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/redirect-home/nositeihaveap-20 For those in
the U.K., this should work: http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/redirect-home?tag=cliffslist-21&site=amazon
Here's a way for you to accept credit cards on your site today: http://zzz.clickbank.net/r/?cliffslist
RECOMMENDED LIST
DOUBLE YOUR DATING One of the best places for you to start your journey on becoming
more successful with women would be to get David DeAngelo's Double Your Dating
e-book. David (who posts here under the name "Sisonpyh" -- which is
"hypnosis" spelled backwards) is a good friend that I have known for
several years now that I originally met through one of Ross's Speed Seduction
seminars. His posts here have been among the most outstanding contributions
I have had over the years and his book (and the free bonuses) is highly recommended.
http://www.doubleyourdating.com/cl/ HOW TO SUCCEED WITH WOMEN Ron Louis and
David Copeland have been reading these emails for awhile and recently sent me
their Mastery Program Tape series which I have finished listening to. It has
some very good stuff on it and that, in combination with other pieces that you
can pick up here and from the other products mentioned can be a help. For those
who are just starting out learning how to deal with women, this is an excellent
basic daily course to take you through the process of dealing with women. For
those who are more advanced, you should pick up a few good ideas from this set
of tapes.
http://www.howtosucceedwithwomen.com/cgi-bin/at.cgi?a=169700 SEVEN MAGIC WORDS
Comments on this product from Tony B.:
I thought I might drop you a quick line regarding some of the more popular sites
that have been seen within this "seduction community." After seeing
several terrible reviews and "flames" from alt.seduction.fast, I decided
to make a decision for myself based upon my own ideas of what could be offered
on the Seven Magic Words product and after several months of reading great novels
about how to attract women and multiple posts about how women are most attracted
to men, I STILL found the site to be beneficial. After joining the site, I was
happy to learn all the new techniques that I have never seen on any list and
that alone made it worth the money. I am not typically the type of person that
spends money on a site especially a seduction site, I would rather pay for some
audio or video, but the information that was offered was different and unequal
to anything I have seen in the past. At any rate, I know you wanted a review..
and I have actually come to know the owner, and he puts more attention in his
members area than I would expect to see from any other site.
http://hop.clickbank.net/?cliffslist/smackudown DATING INSIDER Not only does
this next site give you an unconditional 1 year no risk money back guarantee,
but it stands alone and it's program is unmatched. Right now they're doing a
Free Trial period, and I'd take advantage of this while you can. The site reads
"Learn the proven secrets for meeting, attracting, and seducing women.
From A - Z, you'll discover the most advanced techniques for picking up women
ever developed." Check out their Free Trial (before it ends) and you'll
see why their members like this program so much. Click on
http://www.dating-insider.com/international/welcome.html.
How to Lay Girls Guide The ultimate SEDUCTION SECRETS database: http://www.layguide.com/cgi-bin/affiliates/clickthru.cgi?id=Cliffslist
NEW RECOMMENDATIONS:
I have finished reading The Sexual Key and it is one of the best works I have
read about understanding the language that women respond to. I give this a strong
recommendation and the price is right, too. The book, and/or its companion book,
Gut Instinct (which I will be reviewing) can be downloaded off the net for $39.97
each or $49.97 for both.
http://hop.clickbank.net/?cliffslist.sexualkey
THE UNKNOWN! (Not reviewed)
HYPNO-TECH Here's another one which I think has been reviewed here in the past
but I haven't gone through the old emails to check. "Do You Want To Know
A Simple, Two Minute Hypnotic Technique That Lets YOU Secretly Put Any Woman
Into An Instant Trance And Persuades Her To Ask YOU Out?
http://hop.clickbank.net/?cliffslist/hypnotech ADVANCED MACKING Advanced Macking
has one of the most enticing websites. An updated review would also be welcome.
http://links.verotel.com/cgi-bin/showsite.verotel?vercode=66629804000000274976
This one also looked pretty interesting. The link for more information on breakups
and loving-styles is http://hop.clickbank.net/?cliffslist/Tigress Success Secrets
Our free newsletter reveals it all Money and Personal Finance secrets; Business
& Marketing secrets; Health, Fitness, and Weight-Loss advice; Self Defense
secrets; Memory Improvement tips; Smart Advice on Flirting, Dating, Sex, and
Relationships; Personal Development tips; Communication and Negotiation tips;
Tax Secrets & Loopholes!
Investment and Stock Market tips; and Much More http://hop.clickbank.net/?cliffslist/prodeskcom
The Ultimate Guide to Powerful Relationships is only $8.95 and looks very interesting.
Comments, please. http://hop.clickbank.net/?cliffslist/unicades Here's a new
one I found which needs to be reviewed: "Guys! Get More Pussy with our
Adult Personals Inside Secrets Guide! Plus! Free Survey Results of Women Using
Personals for Sex The Guide contains the following Inside Secrets Replying to
ads - how to get noticed and get a date for hot sex.
Placing ads - how to beat the competition and get lots of replies How to handle
follow up communication to keep her interested. Examples of replies that worked
on us. You can just copy and paste these into your ads or replies. Saves you
time and increases your chances! A directory of the best websites for meeting
hot women! Sick of chicks who are only into cybersex and nothing else! The Guide
contains a list of the best adult personals sites."
http://secure.ibill.com/cgi-win/ccard/rscookie.exe?RevShareID=9804000000274976&
returnto=http://www.mysexinfo.com
Secrets of Power Persuasion! A course by Jian Wang to teach you how to write
hypnotic language to make others obey your command.
http://hop.clickbank.net/?cliffslist/mrchange (if this doesn't work, try this:
http://www.mrchange.com/?hop=cliffslist.mrchange, but both worked for me) Arte's
New Sex Video is kind of interesting. He shows a lot about playing with a woman's
g spot (which he demonstrates on his comely girlfriend - but I could have done
without seeing your dick, Arte). I will do a more extensive review after I have
watched it again more carefully: http://amos.simonweb.com/loveebook/affiliates/clickthru.cgi?id=lrec
HERE'S A NEW ONE
Suspect your spouse of cheating on you? Check this out http://hop.clickbank.net/?cliffslist/spouse1
FREE PLUGS
The following are all recommended but clicking on the links and buying from
them doesn't send any money back here (it is also recommended that the sponsors
of these sites consider setting this up -- from the little experience I have
had since I started the commercial section a couple of weeks ago, I think you
are missing a lot of business by not doing this) http://www.speed-seduction.com/
- The # 1 source; read the free newsletters & get the basic course.
http://www.trucor.com/ - Major Mark's site, the place to learn hypnosis and
about married women
http://www.essential-skills.com/ - learn anchoring, tonality, rapport, goal
getting, etc.
http://www.davidshade.com/ Give women incredible pleasure get David Shade's
Manual
http://www.fastseduction.com/ - great resource, a must visit http://www.sosuave.com/
- lots of free materials, many good ideas and articles http://www.mindcontrolmanual.com/
- seduce men and women through the power of the mind
http://www.oscarbruce.com/ - All his books deal with perusasion, manipulation
and a mild form of seduction. Books like School for Scoundrels focus on getting
your way with people and getting them to see things your way.
Get on Mystery's Lounge - send him an email at [email protected] (note
this new email address) with REQUEST MEMBERSHIP in the subject line.
Include your REAL name, your experience, background in the PUA, some online
PUA's who can vouch for you (references), and a real pic of yourself. If you
do not wish to give this REAL information, don't join. Only the PRO's are in
there anyways - we discuss lots of stuff but it's the REAL pix of our conquests
and the fact that we don't HIDE who we are to each other that makes it appealing.
MANY of the members Mystery has personally sarged with.
The rule is simple don't fuck up anyone's game. If you can abide by that and
have a track record for contributing, then that's basically good as gold. Pix
are a requirement, however. The Lounge is in many ways an EXTENSION of Cliff's
List and is not an alternative. You don't have to be a PRO, but you MUST play
the game. If you are only WANTING to ONE DAY chase skirts, please don't bother
joining.
Mystery is now offering his in-field Mystery Method (MM) BASIC TRAINING workshop
in several cities. Click www.mysterymethod.com for more information, workshop
locations, dates & to sign up.
Playerware which is designed specifically for men who like to date and interact
with a large number of women. The program is essentially an electronic chick
organizer. It contains features such as contact management, photo storage, an
electronic journal, a sophisticated rating and comparison system, date/interaction
tracking, as well as other unique features. Visit the site and you can get a
40 day free trial. Full registration is currently only
$15. http://www.playerware.com/default.asp?refid=10
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New Links to be explored (WE NEED THESE REVIEWED!): 1) The website reads as
follows and we need someone's review of this: "Impress everybody! Make
your life happen on purpose! Matthew Whiting an English and Psychology graduate
from Canterbury University and later a graduate of The National Academy of Performing
Arts, has created this revolutionary step-by-step training system which will
give you the means to becoming irresistibly attractive. Hence enabling you to
gain the relationship and life that you want. Whether it is on stage or in real
life we all know the "x" factor when we see it! But can we produce
our own individual "x factor"? In this book Matthew Whiting's radical
new approach to "being irresistibly attractive" will show you how
to: Master these personal strategies to become more Charismatic: · Learn
how to be master of your own intention · Taking action
· Being a successful leader
· Learning confidence
· ...and a lot more...
Master these personal strategies for more Passion: · How to be funny
· Leaving a lasting impression
· How to utilize the power of speech
· Extraordinary kissing
· Flirting - a delightful, innocent, and respectful way to play with
each other!
· ...and a lot more...(18 Chapters in total!) This book is jam-packed
with tonnes of information, (185 A4-size pages). It is written in a tongue-in-cheek
manner which is easy to follow, and you are sure to enjoy. Once you experience
the marvelous changes that Matthew Whiting enables you to make, you can shape
your relationships and other life circumstances exactly as you'd like them to
be." http://hop.clickbank.net/?cliffslist/unicades 2) How to create sexual
chemistry! This one looks interesting -- we need a review!
http://www.attractwomennow.com/cgi-bin/affiliates/clickthru.cgi/Cliffslist 3)
Welcome to CheekyCherry.co.uk, home of what has been called the bible of 'attracting
women, keeping them and sleeping with them'.
http://www.cheekycherry.co.uk/Main_categories/seduction_and_dating/dating_guide.html
4) Courses for women to seduce men!
http://www.ihrt.co.uk/seductionsystems/text%20gals.htm 5) Guys Guide to Girls
- A guide to relationships. How to overcome shyness and understand your partner...
http://www.philipov.com/guys1.htm 6) Wally's Seduction Tips for Desperate Bachelors
http://www.wallyandmurk.com/wally/sedution/Wallymag.html 7) Help with seduction
- for women who want to seduce men.
http://www.seducehim.com/
8) The website reads as follows and we need someone's review of this: "Ladies!
Never date a stranger unless you've checked him out first!
Fortunately, a basic background check is an easy thing to do, via the telephone
and the Internet. In just a matter of minutes, you can find out a great deal
on your own about any potential date (or even your fiance' or husband) using
the simple, free background check techniques described in our new "how-to"
manual.
CHECK HIM OUT FIRST! "Check Him Out! - The American Woman's Guide to Background
Investigations" guides you through the entire background check process
using clear, nontechnical language. You'll be amazed to learn that there's a
lot that can be done just by using the telephone intelligently!
Without even touching a computer, you can usually verify someone's name, address,
age, occupation, and even marital status over the telephone if you know which
government public records office to call and what information to ask for. "Check
Him Out!" is written for you -- the American woman with no knowledge of
public records and background checks, but with a need to do some quick basic
checking. It's easy to follow, and while it won't make you a seasoned "gumshoe,"
it will make you quite knowledgeable about the subject and will teach you all
you need to know to conduct a thorough basic background check on your own --
plus, it will show you where and how to get competent, reasonably priced help
if you later decide you want a more complex, in-depth background check done.
All this for $11.95 is hard to beat!" http://hop.clickbank.net/?cliffslist/washres
9) For those of you interested in being a bigger man, check out: http://www.angelfire.com/amiga/yourown/bigdickie.htm
10)What Every Man Should Know About Women! Learn the secrets to getting more
dates
than you thought were possible in the year 2001. What works, and what doesn't
work. How to spend less money and less time, to meet more women, and get more
dates. Self-Improvement skills for single men is what this material is all about!
Don't waste your time and money, get the facts on how to find Love efficiently
and effectively! Tired of not getting Lucky? Luck is when preparation meets
opportunity.
These Articles are guaranteed to teach you how to get and stay prepared, and
how to use the Internet to find more dates than you thought possible.
The information in these Articles will produce Ten Times the results of any
professional dating service. This material includes everything you need to get
own track. You need not purchase any other books. Our Total price for everything
is only $19.95 with a full
refund guarantee, if not 200% satisfied that this material will pay for itself
many
times over. http://www.howmengetdates.com/
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