INTERVIEW OF MR. M. NASIRUDDIN CH, CHEMISTRY TEACHER,  BEACON HOUSE SCHOOL, H-8, ISLAMABAD. PAKISTAN.

Q- First of all will you like to tell me about your teaching experience ?

A- I started my career as a regular teacher in 1973. In the beginning I taught in the Model Schools of the Federal Government and by chance where I first taught the Headmaster of that school Mr. Cheema was also my teacher when I was a student. He not only warmly welcomed me to my career but also gave full cooperation and support in performing my duties as a teacher. Due to this welcome I developed an interest in the teaching and I spent a very good time with him. But unfortunately as that was an adhoc appointment so I had to discontinue it after 2 months.

Q- How many years have you spent in the teaching profession ?

A- I have spent approximately 25 years in this profession.

Q- Now a days you are teaching which classes in the Beacon House ?

A- Now a days I am teaching class 8th and 9th, I mean to say matric level students at the beacon house.

Q- Which subjects are you teaching ?

A- I am teaching Chemistry and General Science to the students.

Q- What do you think, that what are the major issues in teaching with reference to Chemistry and General Science ?

A- I will tell you with reference to my school as well as in the general context also. With reference to the school I have to say that in spite of being an established institution and the school which is following modernization there is no revision of general science book. We are teaching only one and the same book for the last eight years. I think that the curriculum is in need of revision and it should be modernized also. However if you see General Science in context of Government Schools I feel that its teaching has improved a lot. They have even made several advancements in the course of Chemistry but unfortunately as we have no good lab facilities government schools thats why the science subjects are not being effectively taught in the government schools. However in my school i.e. Beacon House we have got established labs through which we can impart practical and clear the concepts of the students.

Q- What about curriculum ?

A- In addition to the revision of syllabus the need for teachers training is also very important. If the teachers are not properly trained then the teaching will also be defective.

Q- What about the examinations. Do you think that this is also an issue for you ?

A- Examination is also a big issue. I will tell you about this with reference to my school . What I feel that when our students come to class 8th their concept about science is not so clear and strong. When we take them to laboratory to make their concepts strong they fell very surprised as they have never been brought to a laboratory before. I think the science should be taught from early stages with the help of audio visual aids so that whatever the students are taught that is retained in their minds. Our assessment system also needs a big change. For example if their is any science home work and the students instead of probing their mind, thinking and then writing tend to copy the homework from the copies of each other. Well the teacher who is checking the copy may not be aware of this effect that the student has copied his homework from somebody else or done it by himself. We have in our changed this homework system. We have reduced the homework for the students and instead of it we give a problem to the students in the class to solve it . From this system we got a very positive response. Those students who knew it they solved it , but those students who did not knew it they were not ignored rather they were explained the problem separately or individually to bring them at par with other students of the class.

Q- What do you think that does the pressure of examination effects your teaching or do you continue to teach with your normal method ?

A- To some extend it does effects but not to a very significant extent. However we teach with a special style to our matric students because our matric examination system is like such that we have to prepare the students on those very lines. However the students of our Beacon House School are dealt in a different way , because we have to teach them up to class 8th only and after that there is a bifurcation of Cambridge and Matric students.

Q- When you teach the matric students, what is the effect of examinations there. Can you give an example ? How does it effects teaching ? Do you have to change your strategy ?

Is there any positive or negative effect ?

A- In matric the allocation of time with reference to syllabus is less and hardly in our limited time we are just able to finish our syllabus. Thus in this way there is no time for revision and due to this the readiness for examination is effected.

Q- What do you think that the curriculum and syllabus of Chemistry which has been prescribed by the board, are you able to complete it easily in the given time by the board or teaching hours prescribed by the school or it is otherwise?

A- Well if we follow it regularly then it can be completed in time.

Q- Do you think that what the school has given you the time for chemistry in the schools time table, is sufficient to complete the studies of chemistry ?

A- No we need a further extension in this prescribed time for chemistry in the timetable.

Q- What do you think that which thing is left in this time shortage which you think that should be covered, but you are unable to do it ?

A- As you know that in chemistry there is involvement of practical also. Beacon House has now expanded to quite a greater extent in term of students . Firstly there used to be a practical consisting of 2 periods, but now they have changed it to one period. So what I think in a week when we have just 40 minutes for practical it is not possible to do the practical by students in this short duration of time. So sometimes we have to complete a practical in two different periods. This effects the performance of the practical. Even for the theory the time is not sufficient enough at times.

Q- What do you think about the expectation of parents and school administration from you as a teacher and this expectation effects you i.e. expectation of parents and school ?

A- Yes you are right the parents always expect progress in positive results, beside this the school also expects good result from the teachers. Keeping all these things in the mind we make our best efforts to have the concepts clear and prepare our students in the best possible way. We keep in touch with the parents at least once or twice in one term. Parent , teachers meetings are arranged . So we keep a communication with the parents but however in certain cases parents are also addressed when the performance of their children is not up to the mark. But now we have started a new policy on this issue and we are not sending regular admission of such weak students and instead it is being sent as private. I think this policy is not fair and it is injustice because when a student is studying at the beacon house from the beginning and at the end he has to send a private admission for examinations then that means that it is the failure of the institution. So what I feel is that corrective measures are needed to be taken in earlier stages also.

Q- You have talked about the results that the parents expect that the results should be good. What do they thing of that is a good result . Because there can be two things that either the student should have good marks or really they see in depth that what good things have developed in their child ? What do they think is good result ?

A- A majority of the parents is worried about the grades and they expect that their child should get good grades and marks. But there are few parents who are conscious that how much the child is actually learning , but these type of parents are very few in number.

Q- What does the majority expects ?

A- Well the majority of parents is those who look ahead for better grades.

Q- Do the parents only see the grade of their child or do they compare with other students also ?

A- Well this comparison is less. But even if this comparison is done their approach in doing so is not positive. They think that if for example the performance of one student is good and their sons performance is less then they think that perhaps injustice has been done to their son . Secondly here the policy of our school is such that we do not keep the complete record in front of the parents and try that the comparison of students is not known or shown to the parents. Thats why we do not give positions in our school to the students . So we normally try to discourage such topics in which comparison is to be made and some child is to be shown as superior and some as inferior. So we avoid such things.

Q- What are the expectations of the school with this reference from their teachers ?

A- Well the school always desire that we should teach the weak students also with such efforts that their result is good in the examinations. Of course we also try for this and to some extent we are also successful in achieving good results because when some students come to us in 8th class they are very weak and you cannot expect that they will be able to produce a good result. But we are able to put such efforts that they qualify in their matric examinations.

Q- You have just said that their parents are also conscious about grades and the school is also conscious about grades . So this means that does both are looking that how many grades are being produced by a teacher ? So how this grade system is effect your teaching process. When you are in the class where is your focus, is it on learning, teaching or you are looking ahead for good grades for the students ?

A- No what I believe is that the education is not meant for marks only. Education is also meant for development of the child . For this reason we strive that the expectations of the examination which are related to grades they are also fulfilled and in addition to this the mental development of the student also takes place side by side. We always try that the scientific concepts are made clear to the students. Normally it has been observed that the students are conscious on both the aspects. They apply the scientific knowledge and if they are taught and practiced well they can get good grades also.

Q- What is the role of rote learning in science education ?

A- What I think we wrongly related the rote learning with the examination of the federal board. Rote learning is not encouraging with reference to science subjects and there should be no rote learning in science subjects. But unfortunately this is being done and some students are getting good marks due to this rote learning. But the concepts of such students is never clear although they manage to get good grades, but when it comes to application in everyday life they are unable to do it. So what I feel is that the rote learning should be avoided and concept based studies should be done.

Q- What do you feel that how does rote learning obstructs the student’s understanding in science ?

A- Well science is always studied with reasons , its experimentation and observations, there are specific conclusions but in rote learning the student has no concern with conclusions. In science the main thing is observation but the student who uses rote learning he pays no attention to this observation. He only mug ups a law or hypothesis or mugs up properties of some thing but he has no sense of all those things that what is the real meaning of that. So what I feel is that the rote learning is a negative way of teaching.

Q- What do you think that does the curriculum of matric, does this takes the students towards rote learning or towards understanding and active learning ?

A- The new syllabus of Federal Board is away from the rote learning . The rote learning is difficult in this syllabus and this is a very positive approach to change the curriculum that they have modernized it e.g. the questions of an exercise are concept based . A student who has done rote learning he cannot solve the problems of this exercise . That’s why the present syllabus is much better than the previous one.

Q- Which syllabus was the previous one ?

A- Up till 1997 it was the old syllabus and from 1998 the new syllabus has started.

Q- Does the syllabus used upto 1997 was based on rote learning ?

A- That was a condensed sort of syllabus. There were not sufficient clarifications and explanations in it . That’s why the students thought that it was better to mug up the difficult portion of it instead of learning it with reason and inquiry. But the present books have been expanded and activities have been included in the book so that the students can learn with the help of illustrated experiments.

Q- What do you that that does the curriculum effects your way of teaching ?

A- Oh yes! it effects a lot.

Q- What do you think that in which way it effects your teaching ?

A- In curriculum that everything is included which a student learns from the teacher . If a curriculum is like this that which contains scientific principles and there is way to transfer these in a correct and simple way to the students then this has a positive impact on the students . In this way the teacher also changes its teaching method. e.g. in the present way of teaching to the matric level, is such that a science graduate after becoming a teacher cannot be an effective teacher unless he takes a special training in education and teaching. But unfortunately in our country there is a lack of teacher’s training and sufficient institutions does not exist to produce trained teachers. Sometimes people come to the teaching profession who although never want to take up this job at their will but are forced to do so under various compulsions. So teachers training is very important along with the curriculum revision. Even the trained teachers also need some training after change in the curriculum so that they can apply that curriculum effectively.

Q- What do you think that what active learning means ?

A- In my view active learning means that as you are teaching and students are responding they are learning also. A quick way of learning is Active participation of the students in the process of learning.

Q- Have you ever tried to use and implement the active learning in your class ?

A- Yes I frequently us active learning in science teaching and I on most of the occasions get positive response from this.

Q- Can you explain a situation in which you have used it and what was the result ?

A- For example if you are telling about the properties of Acids & Bases then the best way is that you show your students on the spot that what are the properties of the Bases instead of explaining them on the black board. e.g. when I talked about the taste of the Acids I made the students have the taste of the Acid and when I talked about Base I gave them the taste of bases. I also gave them the slippery touch of the base by putting their finger in the diluted solution. They also tasted a diluted solution. So in this way when they experienced themselves , the first hand experience , this was such a thing which they will never forget.

In addition to it I also told about other minor properties and indicators and those were also shown to them. So this became a more effective way of learning.

Q- When the practical are conducted in the lab does there is more of demonstration or the students themselves perform the practical ?

A- It should be such that the students after a guideline should do these experiments themselves, but if the mental ability of the students is less in that situation it is better that the teacher should give a demonstration of the experiment after which he can divide the students in a group and give them the apparatus so that the students can do that experiment themselves. The teacher should supervise them by going on each and every table or the counter by watching them and asking them questions and answers. By this way the practical work will be more effective. In our school because the facilities are quite well so we follow this method.

Q- Are you satisfied with the standards and patterns of the papers of the board examination at matric level ?

A- I to some extent do not agree to the extent of choice because such a large choice makes the student lethargic and a big set back is this that those students who learn thoroughly for getting good grades they are successful but those students who use hit and trial method and leave various chapters on chance because they know that choice is there and they can easily leave a question so in that case the performance of the students is not encouraging and good results are not obtained. So we should reduce the choice.

Q- What do you mean by choice ?

A- By choice we mean that in a 100% choice paper you have given selection of questions that you have to attempt 5 questions from a total of 10 and normally one question is made compulsory to attempt. We should reduce this choice so that the students should not do selective study and they should work more harder so that the concepts of science are learned.

Q- What about the format and pattern of the questions ?

A- The format of the questions should also be changed. We have divided each question in three parts, sometimes it is even not necessary but still it is done. We can ask a question of 10 marks instead of dividing it into 3 parts. So by this way a tension is developed on the students and they feel the question heavy enough to be solved in three parts. So the choice should be reduced and secondly the breakup of question into parts should be avoided. It is not necessary that every question should have 3 parts. Some question may have one or two parts only.

Q- In your opinion which area needs to be improved most urgently in respect of facilities which are provided?

A- The most important is the Planning of the Lesson in the class, the strategy of the topic to be taught in class is to developed. As far as the syllabus and the system of examination is concerned for them definitely a lot of changes are needed and to some extent immediate improvement should be taken up. But the immediate requirement is effective teaching and regularity on part of the teacher and the student. An above all we have to develop an interest in science learning among the students. If there is no interest in science learning among the students then definitely there will be no outcome.

Q- By which way can we develop the interest of the students ?

A- Their interest can be developed with the students involvement and also by teachers by making their lesson interesting. Secondly a continuos assessment to be done by involving the students. Normally we postpone the assessment for a longer period of time but after a week or so what ever is taught , if it is assessed also side by side it keeps the students active and they also participate in the learning process. So in my view use of audio visual aids, use of laboratory facilities is very important for science teaching. I have an suggestion for our ordinary schools that the NGOs where they are working in various other fields, so there should be such NGOs who should provide funds or equipment for science subjects to such schools where it is not available. This can be done even for primary schools. So this will be a very positive contribution in science teaching that a small lab is built up with necessary equipment in ordinary schools because these facilities are already available in higher level schools. So we should not depend on Government only in this aspect and the NGOs should also play a positive role in it. This will be a very positive approach.

Q- What recommendation would you like to give for Chemistry Teaching ?

A- A very important thing for chemistry teaching is the revision of the curriculum. The main factor in it is that in chemistry when the students comes from 8th to 9th class this subject looks very strange to them. If an introduction to chemistry is done at earlier stages of education it will be a more positive approach. In class 6th science syllabus the introduction of chemistry as a subject is done then the students will become familiar with the subject e.g. elementary symbols, formulas etc. and some other aspects of chemistry like gases in air and air pollution etc. are taught to them. Thus there will be an awareness among the children regarding chemistry and when they will study chemistry as a regular subject in Matric it will not appear much difficult for them. So in present circumstances there is a much difference in science of class 8th and Physics, Chemistry and Biology of 9th Class. We have to reduce this bridge. The bridge in level of Matric and FSc books which was much larger in the past has been reduced to quite an extent now. This is a very positive thing but I think that in order to develop an interest among the students the concept of chemistry should be given to them at a much earlier stage. Also the equipment and material used in chemistry should be practically shown to the students at an earlier stage instead of just theoratically talking about them. So in chemistry the need of active learning is even more.

Q- Any other suggestions or recommendations which you will like to give with reference to matric ?

A- Unfortunately here the system of boards examination needs various changes. These changes should not only be made at matric level examinations but rather at FSc level examinations also. In 75 % theory portion of the paper the choice should be reduced but in practical paper my suggestion is that it should be made more effective , because the practical examination is on most of the occasions being mis-used and un-necessary extra marks are given to the students, so this should be avoided . I think there should be recommendation of science teachers about the students that how he has worked along and there should be an internal assessment and there should be a clear evidence of the opinion of the teacher about the student which should be provided to the board and this evaluation should be included the practical part of the examination rather then external examiners just giving the marks by checking the practical notebooks and few lab experiments. So this is very discouraging sometimes that a student fails in theory part but gets full 25 marks in the practical part of examination . So this is a sort of mis-management . So this irregularity regarding the practical examination should be removed or taken care of.

Q- You have just said that in many cases a student who fails in theory gets full marks in practical. What do you think why and how this happens ?

A- In practical a student does not scores full marks on merit, rather he is given full marks by the external examiner.

Q- How these full marks are given. Can you explain it ?

A- The explanation is this that lets suppose that I go to conduct a practical and the headmaster of the school comes to me and says that well this boy has done very well in theory and he is a very brilliant student so he should get full marks in practical, so on merits I should not go by the sayings of headmaster but instead should access him and award marks. But this is not done and the recommendations of the headmaster makes the evaluation which is wrong. Then some child of some bureaucrat like Inspector General of Police whose favor is being asked by a Superintendent of Police, it will be a wrong practice. So I mean to say some students get full marks by unfair means. The student should be watched and given marks on merit. Justice should be done on the capability of the students and not on their parents status or some other reason. The fair and just assessment in education is a big drawback in Pakistan. The teachers are not doing the correct assessment by which a student can suffer through his entire lifetime. So the assessment system also needs a lot of improvement. Likewise the curriculum, the syllabus, the examination system in which the main thing is the assessment needs lot of positive changes and improvement. Even from the religious point of view it is the duty of the teacher to award marks on merit because the assessment criteria regarding these students will be asked for on the day of judgment.

Q- What do you think how the teachers are doing wrong assessment ? Are they consciously giving wrong marks to the students or they are not properly trained in the assessment process ?

A- There is another reason in this that sometimes because this is a paid job and people do not know one subject but still they are deputed to take practical of that subject or to access the students. So in this way they have to depend on the assessment of the internal examiner. In this way the assessment process may be wrong on unfair. But if the teacher is competent and he is teacher of chemistry and he has been taking practical then definitely he will be able to access the students in a much better way as compared to a mathematics teacher who is conducting the practical examination in chemistry. Secondly a trained teacher of a particular subject can do correct assessment that’s why in schools it should be ensured that the teacher of a respective subject should take the respective class. So deputing a science teacher for arts subjects and arts teacher for science subjects is very bad and highly undesirable.

Q- So it means that this is happening that unconcerned teachers are teaching ?

A- Yes this is happening. And the reason is this that there is shortage of teachers and qualified teachers are not available. There is a continuous ban on recruitment for the last 5 years and there is acute shortage of trained science teachers. New training centers where teachers should be trained are not being developed. The government is although boosting of giving training to teachers but what I think the situation is not satisfactory. Then secondly in our graduates there is very less tendency of coming towards science subjects. So if attractive terms and conditions of service are created for them and these jobs are made more attractive then may be more people will come towards science subjects. Rather I will say that those people who are good in science teaching they should not only be re-trained in Pakistan, rather they should be sent abroad for training. The training should be given top priority.

Saleem. Thank You very much for the interview.

Teacher. Thank you.