=kit133p2.txt

[ This is the 2nd document after kit133.  It is unnumbered.  So I
hereby give it the number kit133p2 -- KIT 133__plus_two

The first doc after kit133 was also unnumbered, so I gave it the
number kit133p1 -- KIT 133__plus_one   

[Footnote (sa) kit133p2_0 ]



----------------------------------------------------------------

[ The following introductory note heads this doc, and is by PVK,--
sa ]

----------------------------------------------------------- 


The statutes of the Sufi Order International forbid expressing an
opinion on politics or intervening in government decisions, as a
corporate body. But I may have my private opinion and communicate
it. This must not be construed as the policy of the Sufi Order
International.
Of course, everybody is welcome to express his/her personal opion.
But I repeat the Sufi Order International cannot make a joint,
official statement, even if only remotely referring to politics.

-----------------------------------

WAR OR PEACE
RETALIATION OR CONFLICT RESOLUTION
By Pir Vilayat Inayat Khan


HAZRAT INAYAT KHAN:
"Suffering is our first call."

[Footnote kit134n--1 (sa) ]

The horror, the terror, the heartless cruelty, the bloodshed, the
devastation, of war! The despair, the folly, the violation of the
sacredness of life: of the message of love, harmony and beauty!
Watch those pictures on TV! People killing each other, young men
with a future killed or maimed for life! Innocent men, women
children, victims of hatred, atrocity blatantly committed in
insensitive cruelty.

The destiny of humanity and indeed our planet is in the hands of a
human phenomenon whose election could be subject to question,
motivated by emotions of revenge by retaliation, having vowed
revenge, sitting pretty at the White House can send 

(i) thousands,
millions (we do not know if it escalates trillions of people world
wide) to their death or being maimed or starving or losing may be
the few possessions they had, separated from their loved ones,
exiled in refugee camps, 

(ii) torture by hatred and to extol
information by bringing the victim half conscious to denounce his
friends 

(iii) recklessly wreaking wanton destructions on
buildings, monuments, indiscriminatingly blowing up many
invaluable archeological ruins meticulously preserved by so much
care by archeologists, facilities, implements built at the cost of
hard work and skills by of umpteen dedicated people, and squander
millions of dollars invested in them and 

(iv) endanger our planet
by polluting the environment with lethal gases

The dastardly, cruel, merciless Sept 11th assault on the towers
was triggered off by Arab fury over Bush's having given support to
Mr Sharon's policy who has been bulldozing Palestinian houses,
expanding Israeli population, and colonizing Palestine. 

[Footnote (sa) kit135n---2 ]

We need to reconnoiter the originating emotion that spurred the
terrorist's machiavellic cruel, merciless reaction, explore
honestly what motivated their retaliation and our retaliation to
their retaliation. We need to listen to the grievances behind the
turmoil of outrage on all sides that spur our quarrelling, hating
each other, killing each other, wreaking excruciating suffering
upon our fellow beings.

But let us not thereby condone that cowardly, vicious act. It is
helpful to our understanding to see how a grievance can trigger
off outrageous acts of retribution which triggers off retaliation
which sparks a power play with its trail of misery, despair,
devastation!

We respect all religions and all races This message fostered by
Hazrat Inayat Khan that has meant so much to so many people in our
day and age. We try to highlight their commonality. Therefore we
cannot agree to manipulating the believers of different faiths for
political objectives.


HAZRAT INAYAT KHAN.
"The whole of humanity is one single body, and all nations,
communities, and races are the different organs. The happiness and
well-being of each of them is the happiness and well-being of the
whole body. If there is one organ of the body in pain the whole
body has to sustain a share of its strain."

Or is there a deeper issue? (i) Prejudice against Islam often
based upon fanatics who do not represent the real Islam and (ii)
prejudice by Muslims against the West's discarding of the values
they uphold.

There is another deep core issue that erupted in the protests
about globalization: the plea of the 'have-nots' against the
affluent, opulent minority cumulating the world's resources.

Are we letting ourselves being inveigled in the vicious circle of
the primitive vendettas which never end? Retribution sparking
retaliation and retaliation triggering off counter retaliation and
so on indefinitely in infinite regress?

Mr Bush could do with a course in the modern sophisticated art of
conflict-resolution.

Who are we contriving to protect against Iraq by disarming it of
its weapons of mass destruction For what reason this unnecessary
massacre and devastation , when the solution is at hand (do you
mean to say???): no more territorial expansion. Respect for the
neighbor's territory. This is irrefutable, inferential deductable,
congruous logic, the recognition by the Government of Israel of
the legitimacy of the the sovereign state of Palestine, like any
other United Nations states. How could one fail to see it? It is
the core issue.

Do you believe that it is by compassion for the Iraqi people, to
redeem them from the oppression of that monstrous tyrant who has
used in the past weapons of mass destruction (which have at
present as yet not been found) not only against his neighbors, but
his own minorities and has drained his people, lamenting their
poverty to build incredibly sumptuous palaces for himself and
embezzle millions of his people's taxes investing them in a Swiss
bank his name? Or do you believe that the prime motivation of the
war against Iraq is controlling rather than sharing the world's
prime source of energy. Could it be that for this purpose we are
being exposed, us all, the whole world, if the conflict escalates
to a global nuclear catastrophe?

When meditating last night a whole further perspective kept on
revealing itself: the wisdom of the divine programming that
overpasses our personal reasonings and initiatives.

"When the unreality of life pushes against my heart,
its door opens to the reality."
(HIK)

These last words of Hazrat Inayat Khan as he was passing beyond
tell us that it is deceptive to count upon our intellectual
reason, our perfunctory assessement of situations that seem so
ovious! When one's heart is broken (because of the terrible
sufferings wreaked upon some people) then an understanding emerges
which makes sense of what our intellect could not grasp: the
divine intention behind what seems totally incongruous to our
mind.

The Muslim story of Moses and Khidr points out the intention in
the cosmic code: Khidr who is considered to be privy to the divine
intention explains to Moses why someone had to be killed - because
he knew that he would have killed many, many people.

The present invidious situation calls upon our intelligence to
grasp the 'reason behind the reason'.

"A mystic does not look at reasons as everybody else does, because
he sees that the first reason that comes to his mind is only a
cover over another reason which is hidden behind it. ... He does
not see things through the reason he has learned from the world,
but he begins to see the reason of all reasons, the reason which
is covered by ordinary reasoning. ...The mystic touches the reason
of reason, the cause behind the cause, the purpose beyond the
purpose."
[ This preceeding paragraph is italicized, so I suppose it is a
quote from HIK.  The following sentence, included in this
paragraph, is not italicized, so I suppose it is PVK's Commentary.

The same reality can look different according to the vantage point
from which you look at it.

IBN ARABI:
"He does not disclose Himself to you except to the measure that
your level of realization allows. ... One may see the Real behind
the veil of things. ... Unveiling conveys knowledge of the Real in
the things. Things are like curtains over the Real. When they are
lifted, unveiling takes place. Then he will know God through God.
The Real is not known in the things without the manifestation of
the things and the lifting of their properties. The eyes of the
common people fall upon the properties of the things but the eyes
of those who have the opening of unveiling fall only upon the Real
in the things. Among them is he who sees the Real in the things,
and among them is he who sees the things while the Real is within
them. Between these two there is a difference. When opening takes
place, the eye of the first falls upon the Real and he see Him in
the things, but the eye of the second falls upon the things, and
then he sees the Real within them because of the existence of the
opening. If you witness creation, you will not see the Real and if
you witness the Real, you will not see creation. So you will never
see both the Real and creation at the same time: you will witness
this in that and that in this, since the one is a wrapper and the
other enwrapped. ... When that veil is lifted disclosure takes
place. That veil may become transparent."
(IBN 'ARABI)

What we may consider to be our or another's initiatives or
decisions may aver itself to be just the way that the universe
sparks these decisions to implement its concern about the state of
the totality of the universe. To ensure the divine gift of
freedom, humanity is furnished with a program that triggers off
overriding that which suppresses its freedom: dictatorship.

Unfortunately the heroes without a personal agenda who plot to
destroy a dictator who is torturing fellow beings are generally
caught by the powers that be and themselves tortured (as in the
case of my sister Noor and those who plotted against Stalin,
Hitler and Cesesco and many others). Unfortunately both the quest
for involvement and the search for freedom involve not only joy
but suffering. HAZRAT INAYAT KHAN pacifies us by saying:

"Crucifixion alone is the source of resurrection. Immortality
comes from the annihilation of self. ... The grape, by turning
into wine, lives; as a grape it would have vanished in time. Only,
by turning into wine, the grape loses its individuality, and yet
not its life. The selfsame grape lives as wine; and the longer it
lives, the better the wine becomes. For a Sufi, therefore, the
true sacrament is the turning of one's grape-like personality,
which has a limited time to live, into wine; that nothing of one's
self may be lost, but, on the contrary, it may be amplified, even
perfected. Immortality is not to be sought in the hereafter; if it
is ever gained it is gained in one's lifetime. ... Virtues such as
tolerance, forgiveness, mercy, or compassion rise of themselves in
the heart which is awakened to love; and infirmities such as
jealousy, hatred, and all manner of prejudice begin to spring up
when the shadow of love has fallen on the heart of the mortal. The
former love raises man to immortality, the latter turns the
immortal soul into a mortal being.
The loss of every mortal thing is a gain in the immortal spheres;
for it wakens the heart which is asleep both in the pursuit and
the pleasures of the gain - under the mantle of every loss a
greater gain."
(HIK)

In the peace covenants following world war II, Churchill respected
the freedom of the German people.

When no weapons of mass destruction were found in Irak, Bush'
tactics shifted into purporting to liberate the Iraqi people. If
it is to control the petrol supply it is at the cost of that very
freedom of the Iraqi people claimed to be the motivation

In contrast with the case of Churchill, someone motivated by
something to gain by overcoming the dictator confronts the
dictator by force (at the cost of other people's lives) opening
Pandora's box unleashing pandemonium, anarchy. In this case, that
very person himself or his cohorts torture their enemies while
their justification is that they are obstructing the monstrous
cruelty of the despot whom they are attacking - wreaking the same
cruelty as a retribution. Gandhi said: "the end does not justify
the means".


In the present crisis, in our dismay at a disturbed, faltering
world teetering at the edge of disaster (or is it being afflicted
by exceedingly pernicious and hazardous birth pangs announcing a
new world?) as we quiver at the threat of wreaking further
unimaginable escalating havoc upon our erstwhile beautiful planet
and killing or causing excruciating pain upon millions, perhaps
billions, of innocent people, our spiritual values are at stake.

We are all emotionally shocked and outraged by the incredible
cruelty, the horror. In fact we are a wounded human family. The
present crisis demonstrate the degree to which resentment and
hatred can lead towards monstrous acts, especially if they are
sustained by a faulty understanding of one's religion. There is
misunderstanding, misassessment, miscommunication.

Umpteen numbers of lives have been forsaken in past wars motivated
by retribution when they could have been spared by a more
civilized sense of honor. Moreover it rebounds upon the avenger.

How can we deal with the outrage and suffering?
Is there anything that we can do? What can we do?

In this conundrum, we have an impelling need to communicate with
each other our quandaries, open our hearts, admit our uncertainty
as to which is the appropriate action to deal with the ignominious
challenge to the world in which we have been accustomed to live,
admit that we ourselves are not immune from perhaps unavowed
emotions of hate, intolerance, discrimination, or a partisan
spirit understandably inspired by loyalty. In this we are tested
in exactly the challenge that determines the decisions not only of
those responsible for the conduct of situations that affect our
lives, our security, our welfare, but of those operating behind
the scenes disrupting the world order to give vent to their
grievances and resentment.

The tidal wave of resentment that has surfaced in our troubled
days jeopardizing the fruit of the toil of dedicated human
endeavor and skill, disrupting our society; the damage to our
lovely Planet by disregard for its sacredness and the despoiling
of cherished values that bespeaks of decadence; these shake us out
of our smug complacency and challenge us into exploring the core
issues at the social scale and in ourselves.

In our present situation our pain has been enhanced tremendously
and it has forced us to get in touch with ourselves more than ever
before, uncovering covert emotions that we do not like to own.

Each little contribution on our part (however small) has its part
to play in the overall tidal wave of sensitivity to the sufferings
of people and, to be consistent: focus on the cause that sparks
violence. It starts at the personal scale.

Perhaps the best way to understand and to participate in the total
happening, each in our own little way, is to look at it at the
personal scale. One can say this challenge invites us to look
within ourselves and discover hidden emotions. It is not always
easy to reconnoiter them. They hide. It requires an act of truth,
of sincerity, to really have enough faith in truth to be able to
face them.

War, violence, cruelty, with all its trail of misery, starts in
each one of us, with our little human problems (our storms in our
teacups). And altogether it escalates into terrible problems, even
mass murder.

We are tested as to whether to retaliate for the atrocious cruelty
to people going about their daily work. This would be slipping
into primitive feuds, vendettas, a time when it was customary that
an insult could only be atoned for by revenge to indemnify one's
honor.

HAZRAT INAYAT KHAN:
"A person has a natural tendency that if he is insulted, he thinks
that the proper way of answering is to insult the other person
still more. Yet he gets a momentary satisfaction to have given a
good answer. ... A fire thus starts in that mind that had been
peaceful and by reacting it too participates in this fire which
will burn oneself. It is giving fuel to the fire that rises for
destruction and causes further destruction... By giving way to
disharmony, one causes disharmony to multiply."
(HIK)

Thus, spurred by our wounded emotion, we tend to react out of
anger with bravado rather than act in a concentrated way to
control the situation.

Let us recall an incident in the life of Hazrat Ali who released
an enemy who spat at his face. Whereupon the enemy asked him why
he did not kill him. Hazrat Ali said: "I did not wish to react in
anger." 

It is said that on the hilt of Prophet Mohammed's sword
were the words: 
"Forgive him who wrongs you; join him who cuts you
off; do good to him who does evil to you, and speak the truth
although it may be against yourself."

Christ's teaching "resist not evil" is a hint not to participate
in and be guilty of the same evil.

The whole of Buddhism started with Buddha's search for an end to
suffering by compassion.

Are we soul- searching about the degradation of cherished moral
values, safeguarded by tradition? The challenge draws our
attention more than ever to whatever we can do (albeit how limited
the outreach of each one of us is) to value and share with our
friends, distraught as we are, the importance of "the awakening of
conscience." Here lies the crux of what sparked the crisis: it
urges us to deal with that very originating emotion. We cannot
extricate ourselves from the plight of our fellow beings in a time
of strife.

If one entertains values such as love, harmony, beauty, respect
for the dignity of one's fellow beings, and kindness, then
discovering the degree to which the emotions of hate and the
insensitive disregard of suffering erupt mercilessly,
unscrupulously, when threatened or frightened - even amongst
people who normally would function according to normal standards
of appropriate behavior - is so distressing! Never has the Message
of the awakening of conscience been so urgently relevant! If we
try to reconnoiter what are the emotional motives behind the
present crisis, more than ever, it is clear that the hatred that
triggered off this mutual violence at a massive scale is of the
same nature as our resentment in our personal problems and hence
the importance of Christ's message, "forgive those who offend
us...they do not know what they do," beckons upon us more
relevantly than ever. And it is this message that resonates
implicitly in Hazrat Inayat Khan's message

There is`a saying: 'To understand all is to forgive all', for it
is the sign of the noble spirit to comprehend all things, to
assimilate all things and therefore to tolerate and forgive all
things. For everyone says or does or thinks only according to his
own particular evolution, and he cannot do better. One cannot
arrive at true nobility of spirit if one is not prepared to
forgive imperfect human nature. And as one is ready to forget the
faults of children, so the wise are ready to forgive the faults of
men.

Resentment is an inherited, primitive survival instinct written
into our psychological defense system, but in the course of
evolution it needs to be transmuted into unconditional love.

How do we deal with resentment for people who are standing in the
way of our doing what is our vital need, possibly our highest call
in life?

HAZRAT INAYAT KHAN
"Life is difficult for the fine person, for he cannot give back
what he receives in the way of hurt, and he can feel it more than
the average person. And there is only one safety from all these
blows that might destroy the heart altogether: it is to learn how
to tolerate, to learn how to forgive.
A Sufi tries to keep harmony in his surroundings, the harmony
which demands many sacrifices. It makes one endure what one is not
willing to endure, it makes one overlook what one is not inclined
to overlook, it makes one tolerate what one is not accustomed to
tolerate, and it makes one forgive and forget what one would never
have forgotten if it were not for the sake of harmony. But at
whatever cost harmony is attained, it is a good bargain. For
harmony is the secret of happiness"
(HIK)

There are ways to look at our resentment. Imagine a knock at the
door in the middle of the night. One peers out: Christ is knocking
at the door! This great, cosmic being comes into the room and
says: "I ask you to forgive. Do you know that all the misery in
the world starts as resentment? Then he has left. It is not the
same as trying to force oneself to forgive. If Christ asks one to
forgive, one can. It makes all the difference. The transpersonal
and cosmic dimensions need to be included in our being, inherent,
powerful, transforming factors.

To help us in our relationship with people we resent: consider
they have a faulty assessment of us. People misjudge one, abuse
one, and make one feel bad that one is abused, all unconsciously.
We encounter these conditions personally, and globally when they
escalate into group emotions: being unreasonable, uncompromising,
not wanting to discuss things,

Ask yourself: Have you never done anything that has caused pain to
another person? Can we see from their point of view and see how
they suffer? Could I have spared that person that pain? We are
tested in our conscience for what we are doing to other people
even by our emotions. People suffer from our emotions. If we don't
like that person, that person feels it. Maybe we are called upon
to open up to people who are causing us pain.

HAZRAT INAYAT KHAN
"When we forgive, the others forgive us"

How do we convince those standing in the way of our need that they
are misguided about us? Was Christ able to convince those
torturing him they were misguided? No. But he was able to forgive.
Can we turn the tables on our foe; feeling sorry for him/her being
misguided and allowing bestial emotions to crop up? In her work
with chimpanzees Jane Goodall reports that they are capable of the
most loving acts, of compassion, humor and even a sense of awe.
But those very chimps are also capable of the most monstrous acts
of hatred and violence and cruelty.

Our sense of self-esteem, self-validation, is so precarious.
Recognizing our defects de-validates our self-esteem even more. We
are called upon to uncover those unconscious emotions. Only one
power will help us to overcome or offset those emotions. That is
love. That is the message of Christ. We are challenged out of our
complacency and insensitivity. It is disarming:

HAZRAT INAYAT KHAN:
"Love is the strongest weapon in the world that will overcome
obstacles."

The most difficult thing in the world is to love a person that is
difficult to love, that is standing in the way, but at the same
time not allowing them to hurt you or, especially, other people.

We need to listen to the grievances behind the turmoil of outrage
on all sides that spur our quarrelling, hating each other, killing
each other, wreaking excruciating suffering upon our fellow
beings.

We are offered the opportunity to make our world a paradise by
building a wonderful world of lovely people. And it just takes a
few people to create hell on earth not just for themselves, but
others (the concentration camps) and for all of us.

If one entertains values such as love, harmony, beauty, respect
for the dignity of one's fellow beings, and kindness, then
discovering the degree to which the emotions of hate and the
insensitive disregard of suffering erupt mercilessly,
unscrupulously, when threatened or frightened - even amongst
people who normally would function according to normal standards
of appropriate behavior - is so distressing! Never has the Message
of the awakening of conscience been so urgently relevant!

Religion is intended as the custodian of the sacredness of our
paramount values.

================================================================
================================================================

COMMENTS FROM THE PEANUT GALLERY = Footnotes by sa

as_it_is_said, 
"No comments from the Peanut Gallery" (USA saying, 1940's) 
            
The peanut gallery being the uppermost balcony of a theatre, the
CheapSeats, where the audience is eating peanuts (and of course
throwing the shells down on the toffs in the 'Orchestra' seats),
because peanuts -- Goober Peas the Confederate Soldiers called
them ("Peas peas peas peas, eating Goober Peas.  Goodness, how
delicious -- eating Goober Peas.") -- are poor man's food in the
USA, especially in the Southeast, which is where they grow, I
suppose. 

--------------------------------------------------------------

[Footnote kit134n--1 (sa) ]
[ Comment (sa):  Does this mean, as one is inclined but I do not
want to, take it, 'our first calling' -- in that old Anglican if
not quite Protestant sense of 'calling', 'vocation' -- or does it
merely mean, 'our first port of call'.
That is, not something one should embrace as Destiny -- we leave
that to the Christians, "a tough job, but somoene's got to do it"
(USA saying)

One Shabat they are putting up the Meditation Tent, and I go up
there, because how could I not, but I just stand outside the
workers, trying to watch everything and be prepared to intervene
in any emergency -- eg if someone gets too close to the edge of
the high side of the platform, or if the centerpole is about to
miss the gromet.  So anyhow, afterwards, Agnieska, who has enough
tact to be a diplomat, says something like, "We appreciated you --
watching ... " and I say back, "It's a tough job, but someone's
got to do it."

-- but rather, a rather undesired but necessary stage that one
must go through to get to where one should and try to do one's
real Destiny. ]


TEXT:
The dastardly, cruel, merciless Sept 11th assault on the towers
was triggered off by Arab fury over Bush's having given support to
Mr Sharon's policy who has been bulldozing Palestinian houses,
expanding Israeli population, and colonizing Palestine. 

[Footnote (sa) kit135n---2 ]
	
Comment (sa):  Well, I suppose I should register am objection and
file a brief response to that.

First of all, it's not clear how free someone identified as both
the CEO and spiritual leader of an organization is to experess a
'merely personal' opinion.

Secondly, I'd not anthropmorphize terrorists; they are merely
soldiers implementing the strategy with the most efficient tactics
available to them, of governmental and/or quaisi_governmental
organizations, by which they are paid, blackmailed, or both.

As for Sharon -- today's mail brought what little is left of the
Jerusalem Post, 4-10 Nov '05, International Edition -- the
Saturday Eveining Jerusalem Post, allowing as how the goyim do
Shabat a day late.

An article, of which I've read the headline , asks, "Is Sharon
Rebin's heir?.  I would say -- only of his intellect.
Though come to think of it, Rabin too repeatedly proved himself a
coward -- in failing to take the Old City in 1948, in firing on
Begin when he came up to the bridge of the beached Altalena, and
in leaving it to Weizmann to win the 6_Day War.

Yes, it has long been Israel policy to bulldoze the homes of those
who have perpetrated terrorist attacks.  It is or was thought to
be the best available deterent, within acceptable humanitarian
limits.  Most other nations do far worse.  The Germans in WWII,
and the USA in Vietnam.
All those living in the house are given sufficient time to leave,
and to remove most of their possessions.  In general, they can and
do appeal the demolition order through the Isreael legal system,
up to the Supreme Court.

As for expanding Israeli population -- well, religious Jews, like
religious Catholics, abstain from birth control, at least in
principle.  And that does have something to do with our losing 6
million 50 years ago.

But I suppose what is meant is, expanding Israeli populationin the
occupied territories.  Sharon, for all that he is said to have
been "the father of the settlements", had little to do with it.
And that is before he turned tail and coat.

As Minister of Infrastructure, he did build Modi'in City, but that
sits just inside the Green Line, and was clearly intended to
become a new border after a complete evacuation of Judea_Samaria.

As for 'colonizing Palestine'.  Well, one might say that of all
Zionism, though it doesn't quite fit.  Of course the entire land
of Israel was termed 'Palestine' under the British Mandate of land
conquered in World War I from the Ottoman Empire.

But I suppose what is meant is, colonizing the occupied
territories.

And that doesn't quite fit either.  This is a region practically
devoid of natural resources, except for its water table.  Some of
which has been drawn off for other regions, which is most
ecologically short_sighted.  

Jewish settlement has been on hitherto bare land, used only for
grazing sheep and goats, and for planting olive trees.  And there
are no lack of olive trees in Israel.  Olives are not very
valuable, even when very carefully cured.  In the land of Israel
they are poor man's food.

As far as I know, Jewish settlements in Judea_Samaria, and for
that matter in Gaza , are (and in Gaza, were) essentially just
bedroom communities, without adjoining agricultural lands, some
with a small economic base from small industries within the
community -- including in Gaza, hothouses.

Well, I suppose that's more than enough on this point now.

--------------------------------------------------------------

TEXT:
My sister Noor gave her life and was tortured to death to support
the attack on the Nazis who were torturing the Jews and now the
Israeli Government is torturing the Palestinians!

[ Footnote (sa) 134_1 -- 3 ]

	
Well, I must file an objection etc. to this.

Of course one often thinks of how much NIK, zl'b (zicharon
l'bracha -- her memory for a blessing) might have contriubted to
the SO, and to PVK -- they seem to have been the closest of the
siblings and, so briefly, to have worked as a team.

And she did show great nobility and courage in volunteering to
work for the British Secret Service, when she might with no
reproach have sat out the war in safety.

And as PVK has noted, a large part of their motivation in
volunteering for military service, and I suppose in going to some
effort to enlist and then to volunteer for dangerous assignments,
was compassion for the Jewish people.

On the other hand, many good people, volunteers and conscripts,
soldiers and civillians, died in that war. 

But of course it simply won't do to even intimate any sort of
parallelism , much less equivalence, between the Shoah, and
Israeli treatment of Palestinians.

I must assume that the excerpt from text noted at the start of
this footnote was written in heat and in haste, and that if PVK
had been asked to reconsider it, he would have withdrawn it.

I think it is reasonably accurate to say that Israel does not and
has not tortured prisoners.

Of course that requires some qualification.  But surely Israel
does not perpetrate the indignities common to most nations,
including France in Algeria, the USA in Vietnam, and the USA under
Bush Jr.

Israel does sometimes use force in interrogations.  
I suppose the best source for honest information on this point
would be B'Tslem, and Israel human_rights organization.

Under Begin, the degree of force allowed under previous
administrations -- all Labour_led, Begin was the the first
so_called right_wing Premier -- was considerably restricted.  It
continues to be restricted, in general under judicial pressure,
although, as far as I know, "reasonable force" is still allowed in
"ticking bomb" cases.

The best example of a "ticking bomb" case was the Ashkelon Bus 300
'incident' -- a euphemistic term used in Israel to express a
determination to carry on regardless, rather than fall into
despair -- when terrorists blew up a bus, several of them were
captured on the scene, and two, if I recall, were beaten to death
by Secret Service agents who thought that they had planted another
time bomb on another bus.

Of course, in practice the 'ticking bomb' excuse for forcible
interrogation is often applied to situations that are much less
immediate.    

Some captured accused terrorists have died in prison shortly after
arrest, but I think one could count those cases on one's fingers. 

Well, that is scarcely comparable, much less parallel, much less
equivalent, to the intentional and deliberate murder by
Nazi_led__Germany of 6 million Jewish civillians, none of whom
posed any military nor quaisi_military threat.

These are all top_of_the_head remarks, almost any citizen of
Israel -- I am a dual USA/Israel citizen, having lived there
during most of the past 20 years -- left, right, or center, would
say as much.  And many could document thsee points in much detail,
eg the Sasson Center for the Study of Anti_Semitism at Hebrew
University, Jerusalem.

Too, most Jews in Galutz -- living outside Israel -- would not
disagree.

These are not the sort of remarks that one should want to
interject into the virtual community of the SO, nor , generally
speaking, needs to.  But since this KIT -- quaisi_KIT , to be
precise -- is, especially with my enhancing its availability, now
a matter of record, and since I do have multiple obligations, I
thought and think that I should say something.

sa, 7 Nov '05 -- 5 CheShvaN -- don't yet know Islamic date.

---------------------------------------------------------------

[Footnote (sa) kit133p2_0 ]
This KIT seems to be PVK's reaction to the onset of one of George
Bush Jr.'s litte wars --  

PVK seems to have written in haste expressing outrage.
Some of his points may bet veiled by this rather unstylish
literary enthusiasm.

He seems critical of the U.S. Presidential election, of U.S.
military and/or quaisi_military interrogation techniques, of the
Taliban destruction of monumental Buddhist sculptures it deemed
idolatrous, of the failure of the USA to substantially restrict
the emission of manufactured gases that contribute to air
pollution and/or 'global warming', and of Israel's policies in
administering the territory seized by Jordan from the British
mandate over the former Ottoman Empire, in the 1948 war, and then
taken by Israel in its counteroffensive in the 1967 war.

PVK unequivocally condemns the terrorist desctruction of the World
Trade Center.

He apparently favored the establishment of a Palestinian state
within the land of Israel (that is, the land describd as the land
of Israel witin the Old Testament).

He apparently opposed Bush Jr.'s war on Iraq.

Well, I'm not sure what one could make of this document -- quite a
number of smaller things, I imagine.

It is said, "You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear."
But a pigskin purse will do for carrying around some of those
itty_bitty indistinguishable coins that the Swiss insist on giving
you for change, since their world , or Weltanschaung anyhow -- for
Kant there's no possible distinction -- is supported by four
pillars, one of which is made of balanced ledger_books.

ZR once thought I might be a spy.  )  I'm not quite sure for whom
nor of what.
(He thought that of Harvey too, I'm told, but Harvey jokes are
another chapter.)
Well, one might have hoped that the professional capabilities
personnel office of Israel's Bet Shin had earned a somewhat more
favorable evaluation.  However I shall pass on that opinion to the
governing body (Vaad haGanovim) of my Moshav, whenver they next
ask me for back rent.
The offices of the Bet Shin, incidentally, is located in an
inconspicuous old building set back from Keren HaYesod street, in
Jerusalem.  The main staff is comprised of two dentists, Dr.
Shmuel Abrahamson, whom I highly recommend as a gentleman and
highly skilled, and one other, no doubt equally good.

But I digress.

ZR and Shahabudin have custody of the 16 or so hours of PVK's
final interview, and seem unlikely to release most of it.
As I've said, I favor an opt_out rather than an opt_in approach.
Unless PVK has said something that would clearly hurt the feelings
of someone who isn't tough enough to "roll with the punches" (USA
slang, of prizefighters) -- eg that Atum used to relax after
seminars by going out into the streets of Seattle and stealing
hubcaps if it wasn't raining -- then I don't see why it should be
withheld from circulation, if not precisely publication, amongst
the -- chevre, as we say of R. Shlomo's followers.

And again, I invoke the Kafka Principle (the king has a message
for you, and you are eager to deliver it, but first you must try
to push your way through the endless throngs of courtiers ... )
which is expessed in the USA saying, "You are possibly confusing
me with someone who gives a damn."

That is, I doubt that much harm would come from releasing almost
if not absolutely anything that PVK said, even if some harm could
come of it -- because if us good guys are as lazy as you look, the
bad guys must be practically comatose.

Well, looks like we might get a dusting of snow, and that's a
comfort.

Well, that Bombay Gin ain't half bad for breakfast, with a bit of
pesta on Zwiebeck -- I got a taste for the latter from Eliahu
Gal_or, though I think he served it with some of his home_made
schnapps.  I got a taste for Bombay Gin -- the real stuff, this
Saphire is a bit too smooth -- from some Egyptian who offered me
almost anything I would take, while I was flipping out on Rodos. 
He said something about how his religion obligated him to offer
help to those who needed it.

My next door neighbor on Moshav Mevo Modi'in used to wander thrugh
the Arab neighborhoods of East Jerusalem after he got out of the
army.  They never bothered him, they said he was a Madshub.



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