=jy051214 Memo to Jim Yarin, 14 Dec '05 -- 13 KisLev From: Steve Amdur, Campra, CH-6718 Olivone, Switzerland sa73122@yahoo.com www.geocities.com/sa73122a et seq. et preq. Re: Memo, 18 Oct '05 Jim Yarin to: Michael Bohnen, Michale Palmer, Miriam Margolyes, sa (replying hereby), Gabriela Efron, Sallyann Amdur Sack Subject: Sample translations Hi, Jim Yarin I hope all is well with you, and with your family and all yours, and that your work goes well. Things are ok with me. I have been a busy with other things, and am just now replying to your memo of 18 Oct '05 (15 tiShReI ,suKOT 1) Maybe some of the following remarks will eventually be of some use. Apologies for not having made time to reply sooner to your Memo of 18 Oct '05. You requested feedback on the choice of a translator within a week, and that you have chosen a translator, whom I'm sure is qualified. You may want to Forward this memo to her/him. If I can be of any help in any way, please ask. Your translator is welcome to get in touch with me directly. My qualification to offer criticism is very limited. I do not know Yiddish. I can at best read a few words at a time with the translation at hand. I know very little Hebrew, and have very little knowlege of the vocabulary of religious Judaism. My German (which is only contemporary German) is minimal. OK, I would make the following suggestions: 1) The book should be publsihed in a blingual edition, with the Yiddish original and the English translation on facing pages -- Yiddish right, English left. The original and the translation should be on the same 'folio' of facing pages. There should be a digital as well as a hardcopy publication. Reproducing the Yiddish should be much easier in digital format. And digital format facilitates hypertext commentary, etc. ---------- 2) A transliteration system should be set and noted, such that from the transliteration the Yiddish original can be unambiguously reconstructed, most easily with a computer program. I have sketched such a system, first for Hebrew, and then for Yiddish. I append it to this memo. Sketches of this transliteration system applied to Hebrew, Yiddish, Greek, and maybe Arabic are posted to my first Website, www.geocitiee.com/sa73122a The filenames ae =trhebeng.txt , =tryideng.txt , =trgreng.txt I use this system in my notes to Chava Berg's partial translation of Amdur Mein Geboirn-Shetl, which I have posted to that Website as =AMSHTL2A.EXE Anyone who knows Yiddish can I'm sure improve on my sketch for a Yiddish system. In those sketches, it is the principle, not the details, that is important. The principle, again, is that from the transliteration the original can be unambiguously reconstructed. (The converse is not the case; only the 'significant features' of the transliteration are determined.) The key is to use the case_sensitive aspect of English ASCII. In general , CAPITAL LETTERS are significant, and lower_case letters are added only to facilitate pronounciation. But there must be exceptions to that. For example, in transliteration from Hebrew, having chosen upper_case T for Tav , I must use lower_case t for Tet , and having chosen uppper_case Z for Zayin, I must use Tz for Tzadeh. ---------------- 3) Again, I would hope that Ziv Chosid, if he is still going strong, could be involved in this project. I have not been in touch with him since he guided me to the town of Amdur (Hamdura, in Belarus) just after Pesach, 1998. Miriam Margoyles sent me his address about a year ago, and I recently mailed a letter to that address. The address that Miriam Margoyles gave me is: Gregory Chosid 17th September Street, 14/1 , Apartment 1 230029 Grodno Belarus Telephone: 00375___152__440_795 I also find a notation of the number 75342.3217 I don't recall what that is. Maybe the Compuserve Email address for Miriam Margoyles. She might be able to help locate and get in touch with him. Jonah Bookstein, if you can find him, might also be able to help locate and get in touch with Ziv Hosid. Jonah Bookstein was the Warsaw director of the Lauder Foundation in 1998. A very energetic, capable, and charming person. It was he who introduced me to Ziv Hosid. I have not been in touch with him since. The Lauder Foundation might be able to locate him. --------------------------- 4) Notes on the examples that included in your Memo: As for the 3 sample translations you sent, there's not much I can say without having the Yiddish original at hand. I suppose they're all good, and that it just comes down to what style one prefers. A number of the examples you forward in that memo seem to be written in rather awkward English, however adequate the translation is. So I think you should reserve the right to have an editor work with the translator on the final version, insofar as this can be done without reducing the accuracy of the translation. So the translator would have to allowed the final word on any revisions. I'd guess that Amdur, Mein Geboirn-Shetl, is a much better book, and more challenging to translate, than we first thought. From the examples that you present in this memo, I see now that Yedidya Efron had a solid Jewish_religious education, and focuses a strong but affectionate sense of humour on the well_intended but naive religiosity of the common people of the shtetl. Chava Berg (Mrs. Zev Berg) of Tiberias pointed out to me in 1998, though I am only now beginning to appreciate her point, that as an evocation of shtetl life, this book is well_worth publishing, and in many ways better and more authentic that the stories -- though those are masterfully crafted -- of Shalom Aleichem. To raise money, you might send out a mailing to the participants in the 1998 Amdur Family Reunion in Pittsburgh, inviting them to subscribe to the book that you will produce. Nancy Amdur Briskin, in Pittsburgh, would be the person to contact, I suppose. You could get her address from the Pittsburgh Jewish Geneology Society. And I'm sure JewishGen has it. Your secondary readership, potentially large if the book is clear and accurate in its translation of religious terminology and word_plays, would be the native_English obserant Jewish community, in the USA, Israel, and maybe England. Chava Berg , in Tiberias -- her husband in Zev Berg, a USA_born Chabadnik who as of 1998 had an Art Gallery on the Tayelet (lakeside promenade) of Tiberias -- translated portions of Amdur Mein Geboirn_Shtetl for me. (Because I paid her, I legally if not quite ethically have the right to give permission to you and to JewishGen to publish or use whatever she has done. I have such permission in writing to JewishGen in 1998, when they requested such a waiver to secure themselves against the possibility of an eventual frivolous lawsuit, and I herewish give such permission to you amd to whoever you wish to delegate it to. I did discuss this with Chava Berg at the time, and she raised no objection.) She pointed out to me that there are some Yiddish words in Amdur Mein Geboirn_Shtetl that are particular to the Belarus region. So you might want to ask Ziv Hosid about them, since he grew up and lives there. As to style: personally, I usually prefer the most literal translation possible, with explanatory notes. I would suggest that one use standard rather than Roman numbers for footnotes -- eg (3) rather than (iii) Some specific notes follow: 'Hosanas' is not precisely translated as 'special hymns for the Feast of Tabernacles'. I would say 'Sukot' rather than 'Feast of Tabernacles' 'Feast of Tabernacles' is a galutz term, and has been a rather 'dated' term since the (initially non_orthodox) revival of religious Judaism in the 1960's. -------------- Now here are some very specific notes, quoting sections from the examples in your memo: In some cases, I have changed the format and/or spelling in those examples, to implicitly if tactlessly suggest possible improvements: ---------- "C. , but when he came to the haggadah[3], slikhos[4], kines[5], or heshaynes[6]," In general, I would suggest using standard Israeli pronounciation rather than Ashkenazi in transliteration. To which one should object: Yiddish is by definition Ashkenazi, and Yiddish_speakers give Hebrew words Ashkenazi pronounciation. And that prevails amongst the ultra_orthodox of Israel. And it is ultra_orthodoxy, not modern orthodoxy, that is the continuation of the religious heritage of the destroyed Jewish world of Eastern Europe. I can only say that, while we are used to s rather than T as the transliteration and pronouncation of Tav__no_dagesh -- as in 'Gut Shabos' -- some of the Ashkenazi vocalization rings odd -- as here, in 'heshaynes' rather than 'hoshanos' (Sfard prounciation, 'hoshanot' ) On the other hand, I would note that some Ashkenazi pronounciation -- especially that of the Zurich Jewish coommmunity -- does indeed ring odd to anyone used to Israeli Hebrew, even Israeli Ashkenazi_haredi Hebrew. ------------ "B. The lamentation "abal amorer aninus agorer" would become "anines a goner" [gander]. His errors were always tied to something in Yiddish." I find (B) the only helpful translation of this particular phrase. Yedidya Efron writes with a good sense of humour, but that does not come through in (A) and (C), and can only be guessed at from (B), But I cannot discern the liturgic Hebrew phrase from this transliteration. Again, I think my system of transliteration, setting off suffixes with non_breaking__hyphens, is more helpful ------------- " A. I remember when my father, may he rest in peace, once sent me to buy charoses from Fayvl the wine-merchant." 'may he rest in peace' is the closest to what I assume is in the Hebrew original , 'olav b_shalom', literally 'may he dwell in peace'. That is a common phrase, and should be given in the original, with a parenthetic translation 'peace to his memory' is not quite correct, and seems confused with the prhase 'zicharon l_bracha' ( 'his/her memory for a blessing') 'peace be unto him' is not quite correct, and I would guess is or could be confused with the Arabic phrase, usually said of the Prophet (Muhammed), 'a salaam aleika' Offhand, I do not recall such a phrase in Hebrew. We say 'shalom aleichem' (which is rather dated and rather galutz) or colloquially 'shalom l_cha (or 'shalom lech'). But those are 2nd_person plural and singular; I do not recall a 3rd_person use. ------------ "A. Those of us who made little ceremony over the Passover seders could hear through the windows, right after the evening service, how wonderfully others were chanting the Haggadah." This is the least_bad of the three translations of that passage. 'made little ceremony' is stilted, (B) 'performed small ceremonies' does not fit (C) seems to be written by someone who inwardly_heard the phrase in a foreign language and then translated that in foreign diction. I might have said something like 'those of us who did an abbreviated [ or 'cursory' ] seder' Incidentally, I think you should and most likely can assume a basic knowlege of Jewish religious terminology amongst the potential readers of this translation. That means that you can use a number of Jewish terms , eg 'seder' that would not be familiar to most non_Jewish readers. You can then explain those terms in a Glossary. ---------------- In the next example, I find that only 'B'' begins to bring out the humour of this mistake. Without the original, and given my inadequate self_education in religious Judaism, I can't suggest a good re_write. Which won't quite stop me from trying: One might start with something like the following: [ start rewrite (a) in 'single_quotes': ' B. and I heard how this bold if unlettered man chanted: 'b_shimta v_moror m_Chatan_im ' (the parents of a bridegroom; here, the parents of one's son_in_law ) 'l_fanikha ' instead of 'mnkhim l_fani_kha' To Yankel__the__White_head the matzos became m_chatan_im, the parents of one's son_in_law. and he mistook the Hebrew word agorer [ I do not recognize that word, nor its context ] for the Yiddish, "a 'goner' "[gander] . No doubt the made that mistake because there were so many geese and ganders in the village. ' [ end rewrite (sa) ] Incidentallly 'my hero' doesn't quite fit nowadays. I suppose the original was something like 'gibor', evoke_ing the biblican strongmen in the Age of Judges. One might just use that term with a footnot. -------------- " C. Yankel wasn't the only Maker of Mistakes in Amdur. My town created quite a few of these folks. " This passage from Translator_C seems like the best in this example, but I'd have to see the original Yiddish -- I would guess that 'maker of mistakes' translates a compound_word whose verb_part was 'macher' I'd say, when you can't find a good translation, use the original Yiddish, with a glossary and maybe footnotes. Eg, the yiddish term 'macher' has no accepted analogue in USA gentile culture. It implies a basically good_hearted person who gets things done in this world that need to be done, but does so in a somewhat ungenteel amd un_gentile manner. It is a humorous term, mildly ironic but not pejorative. 'Hustler' is a usually_pejorative variant. ------------------- " C. It seems to me that you could make an entire anthology from all the artistic and practically lomdishe ("learned") mistakes which filled the mouths of all the generations of these kosher Jews. " This is the best of the 3 variants. 'kosher Jews' does not quite ring right; used outside an observant Jewish community, it carries a bit of a denigratory overtone. 'observant' would be better. ---------- I come now to the Footnotes: ------ Notes on Footnote (1): " (1) Veyse Kepl [lit. white small head] - white hair. Nobody used family names in the shtetl, therefore everybody had a nickname. " Is it that nobody used family names, or that at that time nobody had family names -- that 'family names' foreign to Jewish tradition (like Arabic, traditional Judaism indicated the parent, usually the father, of the person in question. (Though Arabic more usually indicates the child, usually the son, of the person in question -- this 'ibn' for son , 'abu' for father ) and were later assigned by the gentile authorities as a means of control (In Germany, that became a viciously extortionate art. Those who paid a bribe got nice_enough names, like 'Schoenberg', beautiful mountain ( which in the USA, maybe during the national hysteria enveloping World War I , those assimilated Jews changed to the French analogue, 'Belmont') while those who could not pay a bribe were often given ridiculous or atrocious names, eg 'Katzenlbenbogen' -- 'cat's elbow' .) ------------- Notes on Footnote (2=: " (2) Haggadah Book containing the home service for the first two nights of Passover." One might rephrase that: The Hagadah is the text read during the seder. The seder is the ceremonial meal eaten on the first night (and outside Israel, on the second night as well) of Passover. ------------ Notes on Footnote (3) " (3) .. As Tevye the Milkman(1) (2) would have said, 'hamake b'evrato' [2)(3) (smote in his wrath)- Yankel was beaten on account of his Hebrew. " The footnote explains: (2) (3) "G-d smote in his wrath all the firstborn of Egypt"- from Exodus 3:9, used in the evening service. The chapter/verse citation seems incorrct. It is as stated part of the weekday evening (Ma'ariv, TFiLaT 'aRavIT ) service, from the first bracha after the ShM'a: Ha_MaKeH B_'evRaT_O KoL BKOReI MiTzRaIM I think portions of this book can be adequately translated only by someone with a solid knowlege of basic Jewish (orthodox) religious practice, including the Hebrew liturgy. That suggests that you may need to bring in a few consultants to work with the translator. When Yedidya Efron points out a word_play, it is necessary to note and clearly distinguish the correct original, and the garbled version presented by the person he is recalling. And then it is necessary to clearly indicated how that mistake seemed plausible to the person who made it. ------------- --------------- Notes on Footnote (5); "(5) Laments " This is not a suffieient explanation of 'kinos' I don't yet know the distinction between 'slichot' and 'kinot' 'kinot' are one of the most obscure portions of the liturgy I do not find them in my 'Complete Metsudah Siddur', which may be considered definitive for Ashkenazim As I recall, at Moshav Mevo Modi'in they were passed around in an additional booklet. ----------------- Notes on Footnote (6): "heshaynes(6)" Footnote:, "(6) Prayers for the holiday of Sukkot" Neither the transliteration nor the explanation are adequate. 'Hoshanos' is the transliteration in the Metsudah Siddur. Again, I think one can deem the Metsudah Siddur normative for Askenazi transliteration - It comes from the Brooklyn ultra_orthodox milieu. It is spelled Heh_Vav_Shin_Ayin_Nun_Vav_Tav I would translterate it HOSh'aNOs* Note that in my HOSh'aNOs* the apostrophe , which stands for Ayin, is 'significant', and the a , which reprents the vocalization of Ayin, is non_significant The O (two occurrences), which stands for Vav (as do V and U , depending on pronounciation) is 'non-significant' In my transliteration system, only non_significant characters are optional and so may be varied by different users. 'significant' characters can in my system neither be omitted nor varied. This is Tav__no_dagesh, which is pronounced 's' by Ashkenazim As noted below, I would represent it by s* since I already use s for samech, Sh for Shin (and so S for Sin) t for Tet, T for Tav (which can be used for the uncommon T_dagesh in Ashkenazi), and use an apostrophe for Ayin The Hoshanot are recited on HaShana Raba, in the hakofet (seven encirclings) around he bima (taken as symbolic of the Temple altar) with the willow branches. If I recall, Hoshanot are recited on all the other days of Sukot, but not on Simchat Torah, when instead Hakofet are recited. One should point out that these are advanced and obscure parts of the liturgy; I bet that nowadays outside Israel you would find many men who consider themselves orthodox but are unfamiliar with them. So -- and this should be added to explanatory notes in a translation of this passage -- White_haired__Yankele (and that, rather than 'Yankele the White_haired' is how we would have said such a nickname in my hippy days, though the latter reflects the word_order in Hebrew, and I assume in Yiddish) can not be looked down upon , especially by us, for having been ignorant of them. R. Zalman Schachter has written: Nowadays few of us attain the level of Jewish education held in shtetl times by an 'am ha_Aretz', an undeducated 'man of the earth'. ---------------- (Notes on Footnote (7): "B. The lamentation "abal amorer aninus agorer" would become "anines a goner" [gander]. His errors were always tied to something in Yiddish." Footnote: "(7) [source?] avel (mourning) [-mur-r] aninus (mourning a close relative) [-gur-r] The most informative text is by (B), though the footnote is by (C) I do not know the liturgic phrase that is being discussed. I gather it is from the kinot. Again, I find the transliteration hard to back_transliterate, and iterate my suggestion that the original, in Hebrew characters, be included. Incidentally, some of the translator's charactes may have been lost in the various reductions into text format. "abal amorer aninus agorer" I can't make that phrase out at all. the first word would presumably be sounded 'aval' in standard Israeli pronounciation, I think also by Ashkenazim.. As in 'haval' -- what a shame; literally, 'to mourn'. I do not know what the translator means by what displays now on my screen as: [-mur-r] amd [-gur-r] ------------- "(8) Yankel used the Yiddish word mekhutonim ("in-laws") in place of Hebrew munokhim ("lie"). The original line in Hebrew is: b'sho-o she.matso umoror mekhutonim l'fonekho. This is reasonably clear, but could be clearer. The phrase is from the Hagadah, and a translation is: "at the time that matza and moror lie before you." l_fone_kho is better transliterated l_pana_kho -- literally 'to your face' -- from 'panim' , face (literally, 'faces'; derivatively, 'persons') [ literally, 'hour' -- in Sfard (ie, standard Israeli) pronounciation, sha'a. It would be best to include the Hebrew and maybe the Yiddish words in the Hebrew alphabet, with a transliteration. Standard literary procedure is to give the quote in its original alphabet. Eg, T.S. Eliot's introduction to 'The Wasteland'. And anything by Pound. But that's rather elitist. (Further notes on Footnote (8) ("8) [Yankel used the Yiddish word me_chutan_im ("in-laws", literally, 'those from the bride_groom') in place of Hebrew munokhim ("lie", or better, 'are placed before'). The original line in Hebrew is: 'b'sha_a sh_matso u_moror mnochim l_pone_kho.' " (At the time (literally, 'hour' that matza and morora lie hefore you (literally, in front of you, from 'before your face') I don't have a Hagadah at hand now, and have tried to guess at the spelling, and then show how that spelling might be better_evoked wth a different tansliteration. ================================================================ That's all I've got to say on your Memo. I hope some of it is of a bit of use. Notes on my transliteration system, applied to Yiddish, follow. These were included in the material I sent you in 1996, and have not been updated. ================================================================ APPENDIX: =tryideng , 7 May '96 =tryideng I wrote this doc in EinsteinWriter, using some Hebrew_alphabet characters. In EinsteinWriter I made extensive use of formats; those will strip out in this text_only Save, but I will flag them. I think the TAB's are stripped out too, which will reduce readability. The original document, and a copy of EinsteinWriter 8.2 (W.EXE) can be downloaded from my Website www.geocities.com/sa73122a Non__English characters that appear in this doc were input as Hebrew characters under EinsteinWriter 8.2 ------------------------------------------------------------------ I follow the transliteration system I have laid out in =phonetic. An abrdiged copy of that docuent follows: {Abridged versions of =phonetic:} I (sa/HaOn) suggest the following transliteration system, which I use in my 96 work on R. Shlomo material: I've started by adapting the standard transliterations for a TrEng-Heb re-translit. In adapting it for a TrYid-Yid re_translit, I am concerned to not contradict the Hebrew rules. To minimize additional departures from convention, I allow more conveniences: eg k for Quf, W for 2 Vav's, [but not V] II. TRANSLITERATION TABLE -- WITH YIDDISH ADDITIONS AOK means: no variant from my rules OK means: not contrary to my rules Ok but means: One could introduce this as a new rule, but it doesn't seen necessary really not OK means: allowable, but too darned confusing. really really not OK means: double the above. not OK no how no way means: all 4 ASCII variants in use . OK only means: I can do no more than bend my rules as follows: LETTER CHAR TRANSLITERATE AS: Aleph ` A [ Conv: Aleph underline conv. a , Ok as A aleph underdot conv. o] Only OK as Ao or (A)o Bet B v AOK [Conv: Bet dagesh B, bet nodagesh (superline) v ] AOK #L3 In amp* the author or text (it may have been editorial convenience, not author's choice) does not use the dagesh with Bet; so one must chose B or v for transliteration by context. In general, B is preferable, to avoid confusion with Vav, which can be transliterated V. #L1 Gimel G Dalet D He H Vav V (as consonant); O , U (as vowel) 2 Vav's (Yiddish) may be W or VV [conv: u with or without mid-dot; Ok as U o without only when followed by yud; (oy ) Ok as OY 2 yud's v OK only as V*, VV , or W Zayin Z [conv: zayin-shin: zh . Ok but: I prefer to stick to ZSh ] Chet Ch [conv: kh . Not ok; K is Kaf is k is optional Quf . Tet t [lower case] [conv: tet-shin: tsh -- AOK ; or tch , really not ok. ] Yud Y (as consonant); I (as vowel) [conv: yud underdot is i : OK as I ] Yiddish: 2 Yuds, 2nd underlined: ie* 2 Yuds, both underlined: ei* (the asterisk is part of the symbol) [conv: ay, really really not OK ] 2 Yuds, both nude, conv. ey , rr not OK Kaf Kh, K Kaf dagesh is K; Kaf nodagesh is Kh. Kaf soft Kh, K [sofeet Kh only ] Lamed L Mem M Mem soft M [sofeet has same transliteration] Nun N Nun soft N [sofeet has same transliteration ] Samech s [lower-case s ] Ayin ` [backwards apostrophe;=left semi-quote] Yiddish: Use E (capital E) for Ayin. Peh P, F [Peh dagesh is P; plain is F [Heb. p or f] #L3 In amp* Dagesh is used with Peh; so that Peh-dagesh is P; otherwise Peh is F. #L1 Peh soft [sofeet has same transliteration] Tzadeh Tz [conv. ts, not ok no how no way ] Tzadeh sf [sofeet has same transliteration] Quf Q or for convenience k (lower-case k ) [conv: k OK ] Resh R Shin Sh , S Tav T [Yid: T dagesh t; t no dagesh s . #L2 Ashkenazim pronounce Tav (without dagesh) as s; I can only represent it as T* or s*, since I use t for tet; T for the standard Israeli-Hebrew pronounciation of Tav as t; s for Samech and S for Sin {with Sh for Shin, for convenience} #L1 ------------------------------------------------------------------- I have not attempted to make rules for transliterating vowel marks (nekudot), neither for Hebrew nor Yiddish. I have tried to minimize breaks with conventional transliteration, within the constraint of an ASCII system that generates a unique Roman--Hebrew re-transliteration. SOME ADDITIONAL RULES PREVAIL FOR YIDDISH: I've not yet taken note of a standard Yiddish transliteration system, so here I'm piecing things together: For Yiddish, the most obvious departures are: Q for Kuf. k (lower-case k ) can be used instead. 2 Yuds: I gather that , where the second yud is underlined, ie would be the usual transliteration.( die ) and that when both are underlined, ei would be the usual transliteration:( sein ) I could finesse that with the added coventions: ie* and ei* respectively, rather than IY 2 Yuds with a dot under the second are translitered YI , as in Yid. 2 Vav's are used in Yiddish, I think, to replicate the German W; which in Yiddish is then pronounced as the English v ; except by the Weitzman's who went to England. But I can't use upper nor lower case V for transliteration, since those are in use. (Vav and vet). V* is allowable but intrusive; stick with W or VV. Apparently an underlined Peh is P ; so the default for Peh would be F in Yiddish. I treat an underlined Aleph as A ; that is, I disregard the underline. An option if A* , but I don't think that's necessary. Principles: A) As in ASCII, lower/upper case letters are distinguished. 1) Each 'significant' Roman character has only one Hebrew analog, with one exception: T is Tav except that it's Tzadeh when followed by z . 2) All capital letters are 'significant' 3) In general, lower-case letters are not significant, with these exceptions: t=Tet s=Samech v=Bet prounounced as v (allowed for convenience) Optionally, k may be used for Quf 4) Tz is used for Tzadeh 5) The following combinations are allowed for convenience: Sh = Shin Ch = Chet 6) Apart from the preceeding, lower-case letters are non- significant, and are Dealer's Choice; used for vocalization. So one can use either Ashkenazi or Israeli-standard (Sephardi) vocalization. It might be possible to extend this system, with rules for transliteration of vowel-marks. 7) Sofeet forms are understood from context; if it's the last letter in the word and has a sofeet form, it transliterates into the sofeet form. COMMENT: This system allows the original to be reconstructed from the transliteration. It does not generate a Roman transliteration from the Hebrew, except minimally. For further details see =phonetic. ================================================================= Compiled, sa, Campra, CH-6718 Olivone, Switzerland sa73122@yahoo.com www.geocities.com/sa73122a et seq. et preq. 13 Dec '05 -- 12 KisLev -- =============================================================== ================================================================