--------- Subject: *** THE TRUTH FOR ALL TO SEE *** Lieutenant Scott Bernard Rank: Corporal Posted On: September 8, 2004 - 11:11:10 PM --------- THE TRUTH about ROBOTECH 3000 Four months ago I made a promise to you all that I would bring back Robotech 3000 PIECE BY PIECE. And here we are.... four months later and I have with me valuable key insight that will bring into light for the FIRST time the REAL reasons why RT3000 did not debut. Many thanks to Khyron_Prime whom I will always be eternally grateful for providing the crucial information that was needed to piece together the puzzle -- the demise of this great and forgotten series. Drumroll, please… And now, I present to you: The truth about Robotech 3000. ==================================================== NDE - Netter Digital Entertainment Nov 1998 - Talks begin on a new Robotech series Jan 1999 - Carl Macek pens script outlines for RT3000 Feb 1999 - Negotiations and contracts are written up and settled for RT3K between Netter Digital and Harmony Gold Apr 1999 - Work begins on envisioning RT3K as 3D reality May 1999 - NDE rides high on the success of Voltron: The Third Dimension June 1999 - Babylon 5's spinoff: Crusade debuts on TNT, ratings are not as hoped June 1999 - NDE reports losses of nearly $1M dollars July 1999 - Crusade is dropped mid-season and is cancelled July 1999 ---ND continues projects: Max Steel & Dan Dare Sept 13th 1999 - NDE hires former senior VP of MGM's animation division Jay Fukuto as head honcho of ND’s animation team Sept 27th 1999 - NDE company shakeup The new Exec “brings new dimension to f/x house” MORE LIKE new exec hired cleans house. Signals troubling times ahead for NDE. [The next few weeks that follow involves the axing of the Financial Director, and the layoffs of Chief Animators: Shant Jordan & Patrick Perez] Downsizing effects the crew, putting a strain on the crew’s resources (staging area for mocap prod) and equipment (motion cap cameras, computing power) OCT 1999 - The RT3000 Project crew flounders without the guidance of the chief animators and struggles to complete the tasks and meet the deadlines given to them. NOV 1999 - RT3000 trailer is completed DEC 1999 - After assessing NDE’s current situation, HG decides to cut its losses and scrambles to find an alternative source of production and discusses the possibility of going back to 2D [Q: Is 3D more expensive than 2D prod?] Jan 2000 - HG hires Tatsunoko to take over and revive RT3K Feb 2000 --- Sony pulls the plug on ND’s Max Steel. Sony then gives the Max Steel production to Foundation Imaging who later outsource it to Mainframe (Canadian gov subsidy) Mar 19th 2000 --- RT3000 trailer is shown at Fanime Con 2000 Mar 2000 - NDE’s revenues fall 50% to $10M (from Jun 1999) July 21st 2000 - Comic Con = HG announce the cancellation of RT3K 3D {Editor: Boo!} The panel revealed HG had taken the project instead “back to Japan, contacting some of the original producers of the Japanese animation and asking them to come up with some design ideas. This is in a preliminary stage though, the panel was only shown three or four fully colored concept sketches, but no actual animation.” {Editor: why not take the project to Mainframe or Digital Muse?} July 23rd 2000---- HG shows a teaser preview of the RT.com site July 23rd ---- RT.com shows one teaser sketch of Suzy Kramer/full length body shot Aug 18th 2000 - Preliminary sketches of RT3000 updated with the rest of the two sketches THE INTERNET BUBBLE BURST - ECONOMIC RECESSION ENSUES JULY - Sept 2000 --- Tatsunoko Productions works on more concepts for RT3000? Possibly storyboards and animatics? OR HG funds are drying up and can no longer fund the project? Could they have already spent a substantial amount of money for marketing and licensing deals for RT3K 3D toys, Posters, Action Figures? Was this the hype Tommy was talking about? Nov 2000 --- Netter Digital files for Chapter 11 Dec 2000 --- After the completion of the Tony Oliver audio recordings for the RT.com website, “The hint” gets across/more like a certain group of people convince the TPTB at HG to shelf RT3K - for good? {Editor: Never say never!} Feb 8th , 2001 - Beta Testing of RT.com begins Feb 22nd , 2001 - RT.COM debuts to the public Apr 6th 2001 - Members are asked to submit Questions for Carl Macek, til this day no response from the website Apr 1st 2002 - The Infamous FLIGHT 3000 DVD joke backfires May 2002 - Tommy and HG discuss how to take RT franchise in a new direction Aug 2002 - SDCC Panel - concepts for new series are shown May 8th, 2004 - Lt Scott Bernard picks up the mantle of RT3K and revives the spirit of the mistreated series May 16th , 2004 - Two websites dedicated to the cause and survival of RT3000 are created July 5th, 2004 - The new name for the series: Shadow Force is revealed at this year’s conventions July 20th,2004 - Creation of the RT3000: Interplanetary Alliance Webring Sept 7th,2004 - RT3000 Production Timeline established ==================================================== I told you karma will have its day. I told you! The site’s april fools joke has backfired and now its time for it to pay its dues! And now the truth is finally known to all. Thank-you for taking the time to read this my fellow comrades and spread the word and the TRUTH about Robotech 3000! May it live on forever! Lt Scott Bernard - BRINGING YOU THE TRUTH --------- Subject: One Correction... Lieutenant Scott Bernard Rank: Corporal Posted On: September 9, 2004 - 3:24:52 AM Edited On: September 9, 2004 - 3:34:50 AM --------- April 6th, 2001 entry should read: April 5th, 2001 - Members are asked to submit Questions for Carl Macek, til this day no real solid answers are given about the story of Robotech 3000. -------------------------------------------------- Got it confused with the LA Shrine 2002 Questions. A late night for me when I was writing this up. ALSO From the RT.com 2001 Interview Alacrity Fitzhugh asks: what is this robotech 3000 i keep hearing mentioned? Carl Macek says: It is a project that was developed at Harmony Gold that looks at the Robotech Universe hundreds of years into the future. It deals with the creation of a whole new chapter in the evolution of protoculture. --------------------------------------------------- Hmmm.... I wonder....How many questions about RT3000 were actually given to Carl??? If those questions asked by fans were repetitive as stated by Steve then why was there a limit to only one question for Robotech 3000? Anyone want to find out how many questions of RT3000 were asked by fans in the "Questions to Carl Macek" thread? Lt Scott Bernard - BRINGING YOU THE TRUTH --------- Subject: Why? ekruse1 Rank: Corporal Posted On: September 9, 2004 - 6:40:48 AM --------- Why the fascination with RT3000?? Why the hell even bring it up? I remember the day that the RT3000 trailor showed up on Robotech.com and the absolute overwelming hatred and disgust that was feedback to the site by all who viewed it. With the new Shadow Force series in development don't we have better things now to look forward to? --------- Subject: I dunno... Zor Clone Rank: Private Posted On: September 9, 2004 - 12:16:56 PM Edited On: September 9, 2004 - 12:23:34 PM --------- 3d ain't all evil. It depends on how it is used. I quite liked the cel shaded zoids cartoon and how it retained its hand-drawn anime look and smooth-enough motion. Macross Zero also does a good job melding 3d with traditional. But having said that, I think hand-drawn mecha just gives off a more gritty look to the overall image. Like the artists can sometimes give off an exaggerated sense of energy in the drawings that 3d models fail to show, being totally solid objects.. And in movies, sometimes CG sticks out like a sore thumb ie star wars and its fake-looking cities --------- Subject: 3D Sux right now CRUZ Rank: Sergeant Posted On: September 9, 2004 - 12:33:05 PM --------- the truth hurts --------- Subject: RT 3000 the good, and the eventual bad . . . and what COULD have been done . . . Skull 23 Rank: Sergeant Posted On: September 9, 2004 - 4:31:08 PM Edited On: September 9, 2004 - 4:37:18 PM --------- THE GOOD : -Fast-forward Robotech past the events of tthe SDF-3, which have been covered quite well by Jack McKinney's Sentinels 1-5 and End of the Circle. No use treading over old ground that was already brought to a dramatic conclusion. -Twist and change of pace. By having it so far in the future, more doors are opened up, like in Gundam series, and something akin to Macross Plus could have been created that doesn't hurt what has gone before, but rather, adds to it. (Macross Plus is the ideal RT sequel template if Robotech even needs to continue--it was brought to a great conclusion afterall in the novels. -The character designs for Suzy and the malle character are some of the most original, cool, and most RT-like characters I've seen come out of a new RT project yet. They had TONS of potential. THE BAD : -Too much CG is always a bad thing. The onlly time CG has really worked without really detracting has been in Zoids: Chaotic Century/Guardian Force and Zoids/ZERO. Yukikaze, Blue Sub #6, and projects that are completely digital just don't supply a full anime flavor/grit. I want Robotech to be all 2-D, or only sprinkled with CG. CG should not be a main element, nor should it be the only element. -The mechanical designs looked pretty dorkyy, especially with the mutating thing. -Protoculture's course and transformation hhas already been written out essentially by Jack McKinney quite successfully with the Haydon-Regis/'end of the universe' conflict. The way this was going to be handled in RT 3000 would have made things cheap. CONCLUSION : In the end, 'RT: Shadow Force' is a much-improved substitute for RT 3000. However, it hasn't proven itself yet, and the fact that it's going to take away from Sentinels and End of the Circle, where RT 3000 would not have, is a major offense in my opinion to the fans. Plus I still can't beleive its production is not further along. I've been bated with "new Robotech" the whole time being a member here and have gotten very little. The best options WOULD HAVE been. A.) A 'Macross Plus'-style RT sequel, where it doesn't hurt the past, only deals with the future tale. This would appease fans of the anime series, book series, and those who like both universally! B.) Made the Sentinels and End of the Circle Novels into anime, changing the minor few bad elements like the Edwards-'space invaders' debocle, and streamlining the designs with sleek modern design judgement (like the rough character designs of RT 3000 showed). These tales really make up a large chunk of the meat of the Robotech story and answer all the burning questions--without them, the holes of RT are only more painfully evident. They are what really solidify RT as a full-blown epic. If people saw it done the right way in animation following the storyline outlined in the novels, I think they would see just how deep and great the RT story REALLY is. It evolves into an ultimate conflict, and all our favorite characters are involved. Skull 23 out! --------- Subject: You do realize that odds are... rtsurfer Rank: Lieutenant Posted On: September 9, 2004 - 6:13:46 PM --------- RSF will be done completely in a digital format, no real 2D cels, with a look very similar to Yukikaze. RT3K doesn't have a particularly RT feel to it but then again we only saw the first 3 mins of the pilot episode. It wasn't ground breaking 3D but was about the same as (possibly a bit better than) other 3D being done at the time. I imagine it would have done okay on tv assuming the stories weren't too bad and people's expectations weren't too high. I personally didn't like that they had decided not to use transforming mecha which has been and always will be a big part of RT. And the designs weren't exactly anime in their look which I suspect any true RT sequel will have to have. Likely RT3K's biggest hurdle would have been Roughnecks that came out about the same time it would have. After seeing Roughnecks people probably would have expected more than they had in the past out of a 3D tv series. As for the history of how it ended. Fans have claimed for some time that their negative feedback killed it. Reps for HG claim the series had already been put on hold at that time. They had ask Tatsunako to work up some 2D cel designs based on what they had developed for RT3K so as to salvage all their work. When ND went out of business they still had RT3K listed on their site as an active and coming soon project. My guess would be that HG knew/suspected ND was in trouble and based on feedback (internally and later fans) had decided to shift gears to 2D cel animation instead of finding another 3D company to continue the wip. They had wanted to do 2D for some time after that but as of last year they were favoring the 2/3D mixed route and now appear to be going the all digital route basing the general look of the animation on Yukikaze. --------- Subject: Thank You, T'sen Bernard. Khyron_Prime Rank: Corporal Posted On: September 10, 2004 - 12:10:04 AM --------- All I can say at this time is: Thank you, Scott Bernard, for your diligent work to bring this information into public view. Haydon knows we've waited long-enough to finally hear a decent reasoning as to the progression of Robotech 3000's Life, Death, and Rebirth, its simply a pity that we are currently forced to resort to, shall we say, "independent investigations," in order to find this kind of information. Praise Haydon to you today, Lieutenant Scott Bernard, for the Robotech universe is a better place thanks to your efforts. Praise Haydon. --------- Subject: Hey listen you guys.... Lieutenant Scott Bernard Rank: Corporal Posted On: September 10, 2004 - 8:35:29 AM Edited On: September 10, 2004 - 8:43:41 AM --------- this isn't a debate about 3D vs 2D (Anime), this is about what happened to Netter Digital and RT3K so don't mouth off obscenities and threats. It's petty and unnecessary. Flipgangsta - using the asterisks and the $ signs to pass off bad words is not permitted here and is still a violation of TOU. Please, don't do it again. I'm very disappointed with the conduct that both of you have displayed and you both have set a bad example on how to debate. --------- Subject: ... Lieutenant Scott Bernard Rank: Corporal Posted On: September 10, 2004 - 9:01:27 AM Edited On: September 10, 2004 - 9:09:14 AM --------- Why the fascination with RT3000?? Why the hell even bring it up? I remember the day that the RT3000 trailor showed up on Robotech.com and the absolute overwelming hatred and disgust that was feedback to the site by all who viewed it. With the new Shadow Force series in development don't we have better things now to look forward to? As I recall you were one of the vocal voices against RT3000 fandom when I first made my thread about RT3000 [see A Saga Never Dies Thread pg 2]. Its obvious that your words in this current thread reflect your lack of understanding for the reason and purpose of this thread. I suggest you reread this thread again. Also, if you are so against RT3000 why don't you “share” YOUR philosophy for HG's past properties with people petitioning for the Movie to be released on dvd or the people petitioning for The Sentinels to be continued? These properties are as much maligned as RT3K. The Sentinels --- The Movie ---RT3000 - So what do these properties/missed opportunities have in common? A group of haters who hop on the bandwagon and denounce these properties and hence give other people an excuse to hop on just for the sake of it because it’s the “thing” or the most popular thing to do /way to go. Whatever, man. Btw, can you show me a poll that shows an "overwelming hatred and disgust" for RT3K? ... Didn't think so. FINALY SOMEONE THAT AGREES WITH ME,I TOO HATE RT3000 BECAUSE 3D RUINS ANIME AND I HATE 3D THE DAY I WATCHED RT3000 I SPITED ON MY COMPUTER LIKE A HUNDRED TIMES.RT3000 IS CRAP IT DOESNT HAVE A SOUL LIKE THE ANIMATED RT So RT3K doesn’t have a soul? Tell that to the people who used to work for Netter Digital who poured their blood, sweat and tears into the trailer. Tell them that to their faces. I’d like to see you try. The guy who designed those helmets for the characters to model in the trailer? He no longer works in the industry. As for the rest of the crew they’re probably working in a different field other than 3D or are out of the job altogether and to me that is sad because not only are these people talented with exceptional skills in the art of 3D but they are not working on projects that they would love to work on that would spark creativity, thus, we will never see the true potential of 3D for television realized. If RT3000 was a success, the people detesting RT3000 would be singing a different tune. And I’d hate to break it to you but Shadow Force will include 3D. So if don’t like the sound of that then you better start looking somewhere else to enjoy anime that’s 3D free. I suggest, Supercharger, that you do not state any more of your comments any further on this thread because so far they have offended members of this board, including myself, and if you continue to offend and sound off threats to members I shall have to report you. You have been warned. --------- Subject: hmmm True Grit1 Rank: Corporal Posted On: September 10, 2004 - 11:04:28 AM --------- RT 3000 trailer didn't look like Robotech to me. I felt I was watching something different. However, I'm not against 3-D animation altogether. Japan is now fusing their animation style with computer animation; very creative. Personally, I would have liked to see how RT 3000 would have come out if, say, Pixar had done it? Steve Jobs, John Lassetter and crew have shown themselves very adept at the art of animated filmmaking. --------- Subject: RT3000 SuxXx0rz -proto-zor- Rank: Private Posted On: September 10, 2004 - 2:48:56 PM --------- I don't give a damn about RT3000 because I don't give a damn about what happens in the RT universe 1000 years later. I'm sure most of you agree with me. There was still so much to be said with Robotech. Why skip all of that? --------- Subject: he's right Supercharger[VF-1J] Rank: Private Posted On: September 10, 2004 - 2:56:31 PM --------- I mean where did they find Admiral Hunter[wich they will probably do in shadow force]an a lot of other things --------- Subject: oh Supercharger[VF-1J] Rank: Private Posted On: September 10, 2004 - 3:00:54 PM --------- sorry about the langauage in that post but that guy wich probably doesnt even have 14 realy made me mad --------- Subject: Why? Photojewels Rank: Sergeant Posted On: September 10, 2004 - 4:07:01 PM --------- Why must you argue about your different opinions? The forum is not meant to be a boxing ring. Everyone is free to have their own opinions, for or against RT3K. I personally think it was a valiant effort for HG, but unfortunately, 3D animation began taking a different turn two years ago and it put a lot of people out of jobs because current projects were outdated before they were completed. But, with the new combination of anime and 3D, I can see more jobs being created for those who were sadly affected by what happened with NDE. As for my opinion, I would like to see more of the old style because, to me, I identify the 2D-like style with Robotech itself. --------- Subject: Supercharger[VF-1J] Lieutenant Scott Bernard Rank: Corporal Posted On: September 10, 2004 - 4:26:41 PM --------- I warned you before and YOU DID NOT LISTEN. I HAVE REPORTED YOU TO THE ADMINS AND YOU WILL BE DISCIPLINED BY THEM FOR YOUR DISRUPTIVE BEHAVIOR Not only am I reporting you for that but for your out-of-control comments and actions in the Hardcore Technology Forum. I hope you get what you deserve. --------- Subject: Lend An Interested Ear Khyron_Prime Rank: Corporal Posted On: September 10, 2004 - 6:10:51 PM --------- Thank you, T'sen Bernard, for your call-to-order. Now however, I feel it necessary to actually tackle the topic-at-hand because, unfortunately, we've been through this many replies-to-topic and not a single person has addressed the topic. Hello! Okay. So if this isn't about liking or disliking Robotech 3000 (we've got threads for that, too, folks--see you in the WarZone...any time) then its about what Admiral Bernard has given us all: An insight into the collapse of Robotech 3000. The first, and most plain point of Scott Bernard's informative piece is made in order to clarify a belief that, for whatever reason, has spread throughout the fandom like a Kabarran plague: Robotech 3000 was not, is not, and will never be a simple April Fool's joke. Like it or not, Robotech 3000 was always gonna be a real part of the Robotech universe. By Harmony Gold's action, it was gonna be more officially-canon than McKinney, if you can possibly understand exactly how powerful that is. Read the above timeline, folks, and recognise how ignorant many have been for so long. Second point: Robotech 3000 was not definitively cancelled due to poor fan-response. Again, read through the intricasies of the politics that went-on behind the scenes, and realise that Harmony Gold may have had very little to do with the collapse of the 3000 project. The chaos in the house of animators Netter Digital certainly forced a different product from the original design, if indeed the leadership therein did not destroy it itself. So...Robotech 3000 failed? Perhaps, but the fact is that all of Harmony Gold's words of their being in-control of the situation--destroying 3-D Robotech 3000 and going to cry to Tatsunoko in order to appease fans of cel-based animation--all were false. In the end, Robotech 3000 was shut-down because there was no more animation studio, and not something so noble as "Harmony Gold cares enough about its fans to throw its financial interest in Robotech 3000 aside and cancel the series--we did it for you, because the fans demanded it!" So please, ladies and gentlemen and Haydonites of all stages, consider the wealth of information that Scott Bernard has given to you! Simply bother yourself to read it...and realise how wonderful it is to know the facts for the first time! Hah. [insert Khyron laugh; proceed to ingest Protoculture leaves.] Praise Haydon. --------- Subject: RT3K is dead. Let it rest JexKerome Rank: Corporal Posted On: September 10, 2004 - 9:07:41 PM --------- Commendable that a 3D clip could get so many people fired up, but I don't think I'd liked 3k even if it weren't 3D; it simply didn't say "Robotech" to me. Sad to see all those people at NDE get the axe due to the .com bubble burst, too. Now there's the real tragedy, a bunch of artists suddenly out of a job, not the fate of a show that almost nobody liked from what the clip showed us. --------- Subject: You just don't get it. ekruse1 Rank: Corporal Posted On: September 13, 2004 - 7:23:28 AM --------- First of all, shame on you T'sen Bernard. You are trying to put down any other opinion except your own. I haven't given up 13 years of my life (and counting) to the military and this country to protect our freedoms. We live in a free country and are free to voice our opinions. Even if they our different from yours. I apologize to the rest of the board but I do not see what anyone did with bad taste in this thread, so far, except for, Bernard, calling out one of our fellow posters. As to the topic at hand and my opinion they have been expressed numerous times on this board since it has been created. Feel free to go back a few years and read them if you want. Robotech 3000 simple was a bad idea and a bad concept. That is why, I asked why? Why do we really care, why it was never created. I feel no connection to the project. As stated by others the feel of Robotech was not in what I saw in that trailer. As a group and a comuunity we want to find out what happens next, not what happened 1000 years from now. It's a moot point I will also not bring it up again. I am personnaly bouncing off the wall at a chance to see Robotech Shadow Force and I couldn't care less if it was 2D, 3D, 1D, whatever. Just give me a good story. We have all this new and exciting stuff to look forward to and I still have to read about RT3000. Ug. --------- Subject: An Understanding In Insight Khyron_Prime Rank: Corporal Posted On: September 13, 2004 - 4:48:54 PM --------- As I look at ekruse1's post above, I can't help but think that, unfortunately, his thoughts are pretty-much representative of the gross majority of Robotech fans. Unfortunate? you say?--Indeed, yes; I mean that word in all truthfulness: It is unfortunate that so many people look merely at the topic-at-hand rather than the potential. In things that are in their early stages, it is the worst kind of foolishness to judge them merely by their current state rather than their potential. An infant child...do you say, as he lifts a cotton-filled playball and throws it across the room, "Hah! Peyton Manning can throw the ball sixty yards and twenty times as fast!--The kid is worthless!" The first words of a speech...suddenly, does it become necessary to interrupt and say "Why haven't you addressed all of the issues yet?! The speech that Winston Churchill gave in 1939 was so much better than this could ever be!" Can you not see the foolishness in the action of denouncing Robotech 3000 as "a bad idea and a bad concept" as perhaps the most blindly self-induced ideal of defeatingly ignorant opinion? It is a full opinion, indeed, and it is truthfully based in fact: The Robotech 3000 trailer, according to your opinion, might not have contained anything that could match the power of the already-finished Macross, Masters, or New Generation serieses. However, look over the previous sentence again, and tell me that it holds merit to validate such an opinion. We can't see what's going to happen, and what my comrades and I am here to do is to make sure that the aforementioned atroscities of pre-judgement are questioned, rather than accepted into mainstream. For all that the fandom knows, Robotech 3000 might have very-well been the series to put all other serieses to shame; it may have contained the best mecha battles ever shown to man; and the main character's inner turmoil could have brought Robotech to a veritable boiling point. Now, I am not stupid enough to try to prove the above notions, because they certainly cannot at this time. However, the main point is this: Potential. And wherever there is Robotech, there is potential. My comrade, Scott Bernard, myself, and the rest of the Corsair Armada CHOOSE to recognise the potential that lies inherent in Robotech 3000, rather than throwing it aside. We CHOOSE not to be mere viewers of the Robotech universe, but those who are willing to shape it, because to watch Robotech is one thing, but to understand it to a point where there is a newborn child in our hands and it CAN be something great... That is the interest in Robotech 3000. And that is why we never say die, because to send a creation of Robotech's blood to a grave is a sin beyond suitable punishment. Praise Haydon. --------- Subject: Super Charger VF-1J!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! picket Rank: Corporal Posted On: September 13, 2004 - 5:24:13 PM --------- I've never liked the Smurfs. Please they make me hurl, big time. I saw the 3D trailer and yes it seemed weak. That's why it was a TRAILER!!!!! It's like the old arguement of the V-22 Osprey and its new technological technology. Some said we should have stayed with the current helicopter technology used on such legendary aircraft as the UH-1 (formerly HU-1) Inqurois, AKA the Huey, and the UH-60 Blackhawk, but the technology involved in their creation cost a whole lot more lives, equipment, and tax payer dollars to build. The Huey had something like over 400 accidents during its prototype stage. That's why they are called prototypes, their sole function is to find the flaws and improve upon them. Even the ledendary B-17 had its faults in its early stages and one accident that caused the death of the plane's pilot/commander resulted in the development of the B-17's we started World War 2 with. Trust me. Had the early flaws been overlooked, we might all be speaking German and getting busted by the Gestopo for just being at RT.com. As a result of the accident, the side door behind the waist gunners were improved to prevent it from jamming in rough conditions and the tail section was greatly improved and streagthen. Did you think that the B-17 always had a tail gunner. It truly became a rugged plane when the accident was investigated and the surviving crew was picked up and gave their report. I cannot remember the name of the pilot/commander, but his braverly and courage, along with his sacrfice meets the critea for greatness in the American Armed Services. His death not only saved his men's lives, but countless more when WW2 rolled around. I believe that the discoveries made that fateful day saved at least 40-60% of those that survived without physical injury and even more that had been wounded. So as with that, I believe there is room for improvement with both RT: The Sents. and RT3K. You never know until you try. Let me put it better, "Who Dares, WIns" British SAS, Special Air Service. --------- Subject: Khyron ekruse1 Rank: Corporal Posted On: September 13, 2004 - 7:29:31 PM --------- You hit alot of points on the head there. Good take on the topic. I just could not connect with RT3000 at all. Granted it was only 3 mins long if that. However, Robotech has a feeling to it. I can't explain it exactly but watching any part of the Robotech series you can feel its connection to the rest of the story. That was what was missing for me and many others. You also spoke of potentional and I am sure we are all familair with the saying you only get one chance to make a first impression. Well RT3000 failed to make a good one on me. It gave me no hope that the questions and stories that I wanted answers to would ever be told. I would have still watched it though but it wasn't made and now we know that it never will. Lets go enjoy Robotech Shadow Force. --------- Subject: Ekruse Lieutenant Scott Bernard Rank: Corporal Posted On: September 13, 2004 - 8:50:20 PM --------- First of all, shame on you T'sen Bernard. You are trying to put down any other opinion except your own... Ekruse, you like all members are welcome to post your opinion on whatever topic that’s been discussed so long as it is relevant and related to the topic that‘s been discussed. HOWEVER, you spouted off your hatred for RT3K the moment after I made my posts which had ABSOLUTELY no relevance to the thread that I created. As you said, “Why the hell did you bring it (the subject of this thread) up? Then I suggested that you reread the thread to which you seem to take it as putting you down. "Its obvious that your words in this current thread reflect your lack of understanding for the reason and purpose of this thread." That was what I said. That was the truth and you couldn’t handle it. That’s why you take it upon yourself to single me out and attack me like I did something wrong. I apologize to the rest of the board but I do not see what anyone did with bad taste in this thread, so far, except for, Bernard, calling out one of our fellow posters. Are you kidding me? If you meant my calling out of a poster who violated TOU for his attacks on another member (ie Flipgangsta) and for his cussing and for his threats to other members of this board then yeah, I see it as justified. AND YOU SAY THAT THAT IS IN BAD TASTE??? YET you see two members (Flipgangsta and Supercharger) violating TOU and attacking each other that was beyond repugnant as being NOT IN BAD TASTE? Just because I told you to reread the beginning of this thread since you didn’t read it AT ALL in the first place, doesn’t mean that you have to take it personally, which in this case you have. --------- Subject: More info about the development of RT3000 Lieutenant Scott Bernard Rank: Corporal Posted On: September 13, 2004 - 9:12:08 PM Edited On: September 13, 2004 - 9:18:46 PM --------- This info comes from Doug Lanford who was part of the team which designed the N64 video game Robotech: Crystal Dreams. [He has been featured in an article on RT.com] July 2000 - The all-CGI cartoon series Robotech 3000 by Netter Digital will not be happening, but it sounds like the story will be told anyway... Harmony Gold has gone back to some of the original designers and artists on the various Japanese series that make up Robotech, who have produced some test art for new characters. The idea would be to do Robotech 3000 as a cel-drawn series with some CGI, done largely in Japan (similar to several current anime series like Blue Submarine). You can find a couple of the character concept drawings on the new official Robotech website. ---------------------------------------------------- Interesting stuff, heh? So....if RT3K was to be completely redone by Tatsunoko Productions, it would have been done in 2D incorporating some CGI ----like what is being planned now with Shadow Force?? (!!!) --------- Subject: Lt Scott Bernard.. Arthedain Rank: Private Posted On: September 14, 2004 - 3:17:45 AM --------- First of all, congrats on completing the timeline and showing it to us. "Interesting stuff, heh? So....if RT3K was to be completely redone by Tatsunoko Productions, it would have been done in 2D incorporating some CGI ----like what is being planned now with Shadow Force?? (!!!)" According to that info we can see similarities between RT3k and RT:SF, but I don't think that's so odd, I mean, if they can use some material from RT3k in the new serie, why shouldn't they? And 2d incorporating some 3d is being used in many anime series today (as we all now), and I think it looks good in most of them. All I hope for now is that we get a new serie, so everybody will get satisified. ;) --------- Subject: Bernard ekruse1 Rank: Corporal Posted On: September 14, 2004 - 7:05:51 AM --------- Hey man, I haven't taken anything personnally. So if you think I am, no big deal. What was bothering me was your style of writing (not you personnally). You just jump all over the guys who don't share your opinion of RT3000 and it comes off very closer to cencorship. As you already know I have some pretty strong feelings about that. As far as the rules. I didn't read anything orginally that bothered me in the slightest. Of course I come from a military background and not much bothers me at all. Now after reading one of the recent posts above me I could see how that "style of writing" could be seen with bad taste. However it sure seemed orginally that you just wanted to report the other posters because their opinions are different than yours. As to your orginal post I thought it was a good read and I think it is interesting if some elements of RT3000 might be "recycled" for use in RTF. There is not much on this board that I don't read. Just alot of stuff that I do not feel the need to respond to since someone usually has already posted an opinion close enough to my own already. My first post was a question. Why? Why after all this time would our community as a whole care about RT3000? We have spent so much time already on this topic. Why revist it? We finally have a new series to look forward to that from initall discussions has what we, as a comuunity, want. That all that I am asking you, Scott. --------- Subject: Can you feel the love tonight? McKlown Rank: Lieutenant Posted On: September 14, 2004 - 9:55:38 AM Edited On: September 14, 2004 - 9:57:15 AM --------- Anyway, I just felt the need to point something out(if someone else hasn't already...this hole thread gives me a headache). "May 1999 - NDE rides high on the success of Voltron: The Third Dimension" No offense, but was that some sort of bad joke? I was around back then, too, and I remember it bombing and getting horrible reviews. --------- Subject: Feel the love... Darth Mimic Rank: Sergeant Posted On: September 14, 2004 - 10:56:40 AM --------- While I may not be a fan of the idea for RT3000, I certainly wouldn't want it shut down if somebody wanted it. Too bad about politics and business not working out (instead, we get Yu-Gi-Oh). --------- Subject: What the hell is going on here? alphavt Rank: Commander Posted On: September 14, 2004 - 4:37:12 PM --------- xXFLipGanGstAXx and Supercharger[VF-1J]- Your offensive posts have been dealt with and the admins notified of your disgusting behavior. --------- Subject: Suggestion xXFLipGanGstAXx Rank: Private Posted On: September 14, 2004 - 9:39:21 PM --------- Make a PM system instead of having to post it on a topic which we might never look at again. --------- Subject: Whoa Hamel Rank: Private Posted On: September 15, 2004 - 12:04:12 AM --------- whats te go with these comments from flipgansta and supercharger? Have they been deleted? Would have liked to see how RT3K was going to link the the RT universe i saw the trailer and wasnt thrilled but any RT series is ok with me. Picket while you're examples were a little unusual, i must partially correct your closing statement. Who Dares Wins is used by all SAS forces around the globe not just the pommies. Hamel --------- Subject: Sentinels would have been a fine series... Deevil Rank: Corporal Posted On: September 15, 2004 - 2:25:17 AM --------- if they hadn't screwed up everyone's hair... then we wouldn't have had to wait for this RT3K or RTSF business, oh well... --------- Subject: Who Dares Wins ekruse1 Rank: Corporal Posted On: September 15, 2004 - 6:17:38 AM --------- Also used by the British Special Boat Service (SBS) during World War 2. --------- Subject: wow did some one mention supercharger Valkirie Striker Rank: Private Posted On: September 15, 2004 - 8:15:10 AM --------- What has that dumbass done again,well anyway dont belive a word he says hes my kid brother and doesnt know nothing about robotech he just watched my macross saga dvd and a couple of new gen episodes so dont take him seriously. p.s you wont be seeing much of him from now on he's gone to school for the next 3 months --------- Subject: Sorry about the phrase being wrong! picket Rank: Corporal Posted On: September 15, 2004 - 1:30:32 PM --------- Huh, My Bad! I didn't think that the SAS existed anywhere else, than the big UK and I never heard of the SBS. Huh, makes me glad that I only call myself an amatuer history expert, even the expert history experts learn new things, I guess that's why they call it history, we learn from it. By the way, I never heard of the N64 Robotech game, bloody hell. Don't ask, yes I'm American born and raised, but bloody hell rolls off the tongue so, I can't really put it, profound? Huh..... Gotta think about it. Anyways, insults and rude comments seem to be a big thing. Why is that?????? Either way, I have news for you. Most major anime and from what I'm hearing, cartoons are beginnig to incorparate 3D technology. The movie "Tarzan", by Disney Studios, utilized 3D technology about the time Zoids was being thrown together over in Japan if I recall correctly. The scenes with him sliding on the tree branches isn't hand down, but 3D graphics combined with 2D hand drawing. 3D technology has also been used to create and add to a number of other great series. One, being "Roughnecks: The Starship Trooper Chornoicles." I love it, its so awesome. You have incredible detail to both movement and facial expersions and even the weapons. As the techniques improved and the group that was making it gained knowledge of what to do and how to do it, the series bagan to show even greater promise. It would have been equaled to Robotech and even Gundam as a legendary starter and creator of the 3D series, but only Sci-fi got their hands on it and they really messed up its showing. They never showed it in order and always at 6 am (or 3 am for satellite users) and it was nearly a disater and they dropped it like a bad habit. Which I'm guessing was the plan from the start. I guess if someone else got it, Sci-fi may have been finished, though they show rarely anything that intrests me anymore. I'm guessing HG took the creators of Roughnecks and began to work on RT3K, but Sci-Fi must have stepped in and that's the true reason why it was stopped. Remember that a number of 3D shows have been shown before, but the showing channels didn't put enough into the series to make them great and there I believe is the issue of anime being cartoons for children or the need to destroy these "threats" is another possibility. Always remember "Who Dares, Wins" and above all "Simper Fi" and "Simper Fi, carry on!" --------- Subject: Wow JexKerome Rank: Corporal Posted On: September 17, 2004 - 10:12:54 PM --------- "That is the interest in Robotech 3000. And that is why we never say die, because to send a creation of Robotech's blood to a grave is a sin beyond suitable punishment." Man, you're still spouting that self-righteous nonsense. You should become a TV evangelist. And that video was not "the first words of a speech"; it was the whole speech. The whole "look what RT3K is going to be like" speech, and most of us found it lacking. Potential? potential's everywhere. I agree that someone could take RT3K (along with the second Star Wars trilogy, and the sequels to both The Matrix and Highlander), and make something much MUCH better. The question is whether it's worth the effort or not. And I can pretty much tell you that if you go and make a good "fan-based" RT3K it's still NOT going to "shape the RT universe". It's just going to go down as a nice try by a bunch of obssessed fans. Carl Macek will certainly NOT vow to your superior abilities and step down from HG and give it to you. Put your feet back in the ground, please. Your attempt could be good, but it still won't be official, much less "universe shaping" or world-shattering. So tone down the self-righteousness, and perhaps people will be more willing to listen to your requests. --------- Subject: I think its for the best RumbleandFrenzy Rank: Corporal Posted On: September 21, 2004 - 4:47:25 AM --------- the RT3000 trailer I saw, some mining CGI thing, didn't seem to have the feel, style, or really anything having to do with the Robotech we all love --------- Subject: Without Malice I Tread Khyron_Prime Rank: Corporal Posted On: September 21, 2004 - 10:40:02 PM --------- I must preface this by saying that I feel quite weak in writing this, so forgive me if this message seems to be sub-par in quality. I would be the first one to recognise the grandiose ideas that fuel the fire that burns within our little herald of Robotech 3000 fandom. There's certainly no weakness in the facts that we strongly believe in something, and yet, it seems that when we come out into the open, our words are torn asunder by those who simply don't understand. That's unnerving, but let me redirect you to the statement you just heard: We believe in Robotech 3000, so in the end, it doesn't matter to me what the general fandom thinks. This may sound cruel, but its true--dare to accept yourself, and not the common denominator. If my words become passionate--as this thread may or may not have demonstrated to those reading--then at least you know its for a reason. But moreso than that, its for a constructive reason. I'm not telling anyone to get lost or instructing them that they are wrong; my strength comes from the belief that I am working on something great, and indeed I am. I always make a point not to quote and again quote other people's statements, because if that were done, I would only be attacking a person's opinion, and that does no good. But as for me deciding to become a TV evangelist? *laughs* Well, I'm flattered. Thank you. I'm glad that you find that my energy toward Robotech 3000 is equal to those who worship something quite different. So, without further ado, I present to you who still do not understand the reason why I am here: I'm not here to convert you; I'm not here to tell you that you're wrong; I'm here to pass-on the truth that Robotech 3000 is not the junk that most fans and Harmony Gold employees would lead you to believe. It is my ultimate goal to encourage a more active aspect of fandom, one in which people are not saying things such as "Your attempt could be good, but it still won't be official", but rather, "Fight for your future, for it is yours to shape; you, the Robotech fan, ultimately decide the direction that your beloved series will take.--In the end, stop being someone in front of the television, and start being someone with an artist's pen or a script-writer's pencil. There are very few things that I am scared-of, but one of them is conformity. In Robotech 3000, I found a battle worth fighting, but it was only because I dared to question the norm that it happened. Suddenly, the de facto terrible series was revealing itself through thought processes, and wonderful ideas abound. It is this wonderment that I hope to share with all those who come here--this IS why I am here, and this is why I call upon everyone to look beyond the hype and see for themselves what Robotech 3000 has to offer. Both my site ( http://www.geocities.com/RobotechThreeThousand ) and Admiral Bernard's site ( http://groups.msn.com/Robotech3000 ) present the information that I speak-of today, without a need for supercedence of official canon. Unofficial? Fine, because if 'Official' means tossing parts of Robotech aside, then how much is 'Official' really worth to the discerning fan?--But this is Robotech 3000. Something for the Robotech fans. My story. Your story. Our story. Praise Haydon. --------- Subject: ... Robotek19 Rank: Sergeant Posted On: September 23, 2004 - 12:15:38 PM --------- Ok, I just read this thread for the first time and though I apparently missed something with the TOU violators it seems pretty heated in here without those comments. I must say that I share in Kyron_Prime's and Lieutenant Scott Bernard vision as I've voiced, though maybe not nearly enough, a few times around the boards. I may get a bit emotional because certain things in here have definitely affected me. What Scott was simply trying to do was inform us. Much like documentaries about wars or 'who shot JFK' do. It's been asked why this has been brought up after all this time, same reason as anything in history. To learn from, for starters. I personally like to know the 'whys', especially for something as important to me as RT. RT3K was not some April Fool's day joke. It was a project that a lot of talented people (I'm covering that in a moment) poured their love, and the most important thing we have in life, their time. They were unfortunately part of an industry which is extremely competitive and had a real bad time in 2000. Not to mention plenty of internal conflict by the looks of things. The folks who worked on RT3K are/were (if any are no longer with us) a talented group. I can attest to that. I graduated in May 2000 with a degree in Multimedia. I had been sheltered my whole life and just starting to go into the real work force, when I realized the problem in the industry I had spent the previous 2yrs and 8months training to break into. I applied to work with many companies including Rainbow Studios, who was the studio working on Roughnecks at that time and also did some PS2 games. But they were feeling that crunch as well. Needless to say I have still not managed to break in and many who were in it, are now in the same position I am. The talents of many people are now being wasted on any number of tasks that do not suit them. The work those people did on RT3K should not be forgotten if at the very least out of respect. Unless you work w/ 3D animation, or any animation for that matter, no one should knock the work. I've seen many posts in here that have said that RT3K did not feel like RT. Well, for starters it was only 3 mins, and from everything I can tell it was the first 3 mins of maybe the first episode. Put yourself in the following situation. Start by pretending that you know nothing of Robotech, I know this will be hard. Watch, just the first 3 mins of RT (or anything else for that matter) and see how much it gets your juices flowing. I can't say anything would really exite me about it. My second view on the fact that it didn't feel like RT is that honestly, after Macross, SC didn't seem very RTish to me from the beginning. And neither did NG. That's my opinion. I stuck through it though because it said Robotech so it had to be right. And soon I learned I did love it. And to top it all off if someone would've tried to show me the TV show while I was in HS I would've watched about 3 mins and said that it was dated, ugly, and to take it off. I'm a very visual person. However I started by reading the McKinney novels. And when I saw the show it was just as I had read. I didn't see the age of the circa '85 animation. I just saw my novels brought to life. And HG can say what they want, those novels are canon to ME! Going back to the 3 min trailer; trailers typically consist of fast changing shots from different part of a given movie or show. This is done in order to draw your attention to the action or love or whatever parts are a defining part of the feature. If maybe we would've seen something more like the typical trailer many RT fans would be singing a different tune. But alas, we received a 3 minute intro. We do not know if there was transforming mecha, a great love story, or a humongous war in RT3K. We just don't know. So you have to have an open mind, think of the posibilities. Dare to Dream! Dreamers are the shapers of the world. Don't let someone dream for you. Finding out, as Scott has, what the downfall for RT3K is a first step in a learning process. Military examples have been brought up and those are the best that I can use to relate. If we don't learn the 'whys' from previous failures, we are doomed to repeat them. In closing, Scott and Khyron have a mission and that's to resurrect RT3K, so they need to know why it failed in the first place. I'm they just felt that the people who could best appreciate their efforts would be on this site and unfortunately for the most part it appears that it's quite the opposite. My friends don't be disillusioned (although the amount of heart you guys have leads me to believe you won't) there are those of us who believe in RT in any form. I, for one, would love to see what happens 1000 years from the end of our current story. I didn't intend for this to turn out this lengthy. But once I get started on something ... In all my typing I forgot to say thank you Scott. I appreciate your hard work in finding that info. It does at the very least put an end to the April Joke rumor. I will be bookmarking this thread for RT history purposes. --------- Subject: After I saw Voltron 3D..... Protoculture Rank: Sergeant Posted On: September 24, 2004 - 12:10:00 AM --------- I puke green blood .... Thank God NDE didn't manage to screw the legend RT was. But hey, I digress. I really dig the Suzy Kramer art from RT 3000. I really would like to see the character designs from both lead characters in RT 3000 be reincarnated in RT: ShadowForce. Yeah, no RT 3000, but pleaseeee bring Suzy Kramer back to life beyond the dusty recesses in HG basement! --------- Subject: Balderdash again JexKerome Rank: Corporal Posted On: September 24, 2004 - 9:59:24 PM --------- "I'm here to pass-on the truth that Robotech 3000 is not the junk that most fans and Harmony Gold employees would lead you to believe." Never heard HG saying RT3K was junk; only thing I heard was that it got canned for multiple reasons. And a three-minute clip, a fantastic background and a lot of design work (no matter how great) do not equate to a great final product; witness the D&D movie for a perfect example of this. So your rants that RT3K is the Mana from Heaven are as unsubstantiated as the claims of "junkhood". "Fight for your future, for it is yours to shape; you, the Robotech fan, ultimately decide the direction that your beloved series will take." And this is so patently NOT true! If it were so, we would have the remastered edition of the Sentinels series AND RT3K by now. The decision of what goes and what stays in the animation industry is NEVER in the hands of the viewers. They just get to rate the final product with their time and wallets. Good work? High ratings and lots of merchandise revenue. Bad job? the show dies in the first season and merchandising will most likley not occur. It is then that the producers gather their feedback, which will be used to for their NEXT project; the one that just finished gets no benefit from it. "Unofficial? Fine, because if 'Official' means tossing parts of Robotech aside, then how much is 'Official' really worth to the discerning fan?" Considering even the Bible has had parts removed or edited, official is official is what counts, and I'll take it over apocryphal material any day. RT3k or no RT3K, Jack McKinney novels or not, I get a kick out of watching Robotech each and every single time. I also enjoy picking up the novels, re-reading them, and musing on the content, even the one I know doesn't quite mesh. I watch the Sentinels movie and yearn for what might have been, but when I go watch all the material out there on RT3K it doesn't connect, simple as that. And most of us feel that way BECAUSE we feel that way, NOT because everyone else "is doing it". Your idea that we reject RT3K out of conformism is as ridiculous as your idea that to let RT3K lie is "a sin beyond suitable punishment". This is why I called you a TV evangelist: you're trying to impose your "superior RT morals" on us and measure us with a crooked yard of your own making. Small wonder people have reacted violently to you! So, again, tone it down. Try something like this: "Hi, people, if you liked what little you saw of RT3K and wish to learn more go here: httP whatever" instead of "The time of the Reckoning has fallen upon Thee and if ye don't Praise RT3K you will be Struck Down with Great Vengeance and Furious Anger, and ye shall know that It is the Lord that is before you! Go here http whatever For Great Justice, for All your Base Are Belong to Us! And RT3K too!" See the difference? --------- Subject: Sedentary Lifestyles Khyron_Prime Rank: Corporal Posted On: September 24, 2004 - 10:59:13 PM Edited On: September 24, 2004 - 11:01:18 PM --------- JexKerome...what can I say?--You have me beaten, my friend. I bow to your logic that, indeed, the phrases that I have said are filled with a passion that others may-or-may-not share, and therefore, those that do not agree with them might find them arrogant. I have continuously imposed upon them the idea that yes, I, Khyron_Prime, support Robotech 3000 with all of my heart, and for that, I apologise to all of you out there. In the future, I shall speak only as a viewer--not as an artist, not as a creator, and certainly not someone with an active imagination--and as a result, nothing shall change. Everything will be de facto in Robotech discussion, and therefore, what is will always be what is, and the decision shall be made to just sit and watch, because in the end, I will have convinced myself that nothing good can happen in this world, and that ownership of a title is, in fact, reserved only for the creators of the aforementioned, thereby invalidating all fan-fiction, fan-art, and unfortunately, all of the speculative thought and discussion that goes-on on Robotech.com, because, in the end, nothing we do matters. We, as fans, should sit in our chairs like JexKerome and watch Robotech if it is good and complain if it is bad, but never, ever! raise our hands to the teacher in this classroom and say: "I wholeheartedly disagree with your statements!" --------- Subject: The man sees the Light! JexKerome Rank: Corporal Posted On: October 2, 2004 - 3:47:24 AM --------- I'm glad you finally got the point. Now put on that dunce hat and go sit in the corner. --------- Subject: debate topics Steve Yun Rank: Captain Posted On: October 4, 2004 - 1:57:21 PM --------- Debate threads belong in the Warzone.