SWG Military Orders: Implied Consent (a.k.a. player-led military units, cont'd)

Baj and I have been discussing the idea of "implied consent" for military orders, where the subordinate automatically accepts any mission assigned by the commander.

By joining that MU (Military Unit PA) the subordinate agreed to accept any orders from the commander for the duration of the tour of duty.

This requires no special support beyond what we already have: PA's and the player mission system.

This system allows much more flexibility to commanders of MU's, who can then rely much more on the reliability of their subordinates, even for difficult missions that might not normally be accepted.

We discussed various penalties for disobeying a military order, although the details of that aren't really important right now. The important thing is that the penalties for disobedience are high enough to convince the subordinate that following even a really crazy order is better than desertion.

In exchange for the obvious drawback of being forced into accepting missions you don't like, the MU could offer many benefits not available to a normal PA -- ranging from special military missions, to cool military gear, to more effective and efficient command structure.

One feature that would be very handy in such a system would be the ability for a recruit to view the history of the MU before joining -- does this commander have a 75% failure rate on missions? 40 courts-martial? Etc. Likewise for the commander before accepting a recruit: are they blacklisted for previous desertions?

Another nice addition might be "commander's discretion" to reduce the penalty for a failed mission. I'm not sure if this is already in the player mission system, but it ought to be: the ability for the mission giver to recognize extenuating circumstances and essentially let the person who accepted the mission "off the hook" if they fail it after a valiant effort.

-Rim

I'm guessing there are some restrictions in the existing PA system on joining and leaving quickly or repeatedly, so those might still apply.

-Rim

My whole point for joining a faction through declaring is to avoid the need for a PA of any kind, since I view the faction I declare to as one giant PA in and of itself. And yes, I do plan on investing in the military skill tree.

DarthPain
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Yeah right.

then i punish you

Because i didnt take your suicidal mission?

The idea is that some military missions are bad for the individual but good for the cause, and it will be hard to get people to accept those missions unless there are special rules for MU's.

Now, if you're asking, "who would go on a suicide mission instead of just deserting?" you need to consider that there are a lot of possible penalties that are worse than SWG death, since death isn't so bad especially if you're insured (plus, on most suicide missions there is at least some chance that you won't die...heh).

-Rim

That's fine, there will plenty of room for that point-of-view in the game, but you wouldn't have anything against a system that would allow players to further organize smaller communities within that larger structure, would you?

If there are several hundred declared members of each faction per server, that is an awfully large community for a player to try to find a niche in. Hard to get to know your brothers-in-arms without the formation of smaller communities, and so they will form even without official support. Having some kind of system or game mechanics just allows players to do what they will do naturally, more easily.

From most of what I've read of actual military organizations and the grunts that are stuck at the lowest levels, it is most often the relationships between the privates and noncoms (for Army, say) that bind the team together and not the threat of punishment from the higher ups.

Of course, in SWG, death is not a permanent status so the threat of death or other punishment is sorta more annoying than punishing.

What I propose is a more positive feedback mission system where soldiers who have joined a military organization can be rewarded for the missions they do with various types of rewards...

Possible rewards might be 'rank experience' or 'rank points'. Ranks within a military organization may be awarded based on the number of rank points earned...which can be based on the difficulty of the mission that was successful.

Other common rewards are citations or medals. In the WWII Air Corps, if you lived through 5 missions you got an Air Service Medal...if you lived through an additional 5 or 6 missions you got another one. If you got 4 or so (I forget) Air Service medals, you got to go home. The Congressional Medal of Honor was reserved for soldiers who exhibited extreme forms of bravery and courage when threatened with death. Really, any number of kinds of medals & citations can be created for use in SWG military organizations. These can be used to promote the cooperation of soldiers and positively reward good behavior.

Basically, negative feedback and punishments will only alienate a commander from his soldiers in a gameworld where death is only temporary and people PAY to play the game. Remember that...

But, positive feedback & rewards will work the most effectively in increasing the desire to work cooperatively with a commander with a larger mission in mind. Even if a particular soldier has a less than glorious job to do, if the commander is leader-savvy enough and describes how needed the job is..the soldier will more often than not do the job and be satisfied that they are doing something that is necessary.

No one likes busy work...least of all someone who can die for it. Even if it is temporary..in SWG.

Hsalis

We have all been in groups or delt with players that have caused the untimely demise of the group because of stupidity.

Imagine if those same idiots were using this system to issue idiot orders to you?

And as for keeping troops in line, simple promotion/demotion/busted works well, plus medals. Medals and rank certainly have precedent throughout Star Wars.

If a MU is run by an idiot or Kewl Dood, their reputation will precede them, and their only recruits will be other idiots and kewl doods.
(You reap what you sow.)

Respect is something that has to be earned, If a commander is competent and skilled then he wont need any system in place to make his men follow his orders. There will probaly be alot of incompetant military leaders in all the factions, and I do not plan on letting a fool tell me what to do.

Its a lovely idea but generally speaking I think it is something that takes place more in PA'z and there Allies rather than whats done in Factional Alegance. Due to the fact that people are spread out, working on different things, unable to blow there cover, lack the resolve to commit for fear of retaliation to there families, numerous in game reasons let alone RL ones! It could easily turn into condoned griefing and that would totally suck.

But maybe a system that could make PA orders! And actually make missions only your PA and allies could recieve. Kinda just a flash way of letting them know who was heading out on this raid or mission etc... and as a way of monitoring peoples commitment and interest fields!

Cause I would hate to be ordered around by someone in my faction just because he can play 18 hours a days, cause he doesnt have a job etc... When quite clearly to me he doesnt actaully have a sense of war either!

Not all powergamers are good players. So being forced to follow orders from a powergamer would totally suck if you knew it was strategically unimportant and flawed down to the very roots!

My 2 cents.

quote:

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My whole point for joining a faction through declaring is to avoid the need for a PA of any kind, since I view the faction I declare to as one giant PA in and of itself.

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Hrmmm. I think people are going to find soloing in Factions very difficult. My experience in factions from UO is that "sometimes" people of the same faction who dont know each other will group together, but it is extremly rare. Alot of the succesful ones are those who are actually in a PA dedicated to factions who are available for easy grouping. After all, if youre out with yourself or one other person, how much of a chance are you going to stand against a mob of 5 or 6?

Maybe Im wrong. Every game is different and we dont know how people will end up grouping in SWG, hopefully with the interdependence of players for equipment and repairs and such people will be more likely to work together without the need for a small group of friends like in a PA.

-Rim