THE DEBATE OVER LEONARD LITTLE'S SUSPENSIONAdd yourself to The HERD's Official Roster (guestbook), if you think you are man enough!
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PART I-An exchange between Bama Ram Fan and Zack Neruda
1. BAMA RAM FAN
I think everyone has to realize some things.
1. I can't think of any union that would allow its members to be suspended without pay for � a year (the equivalent of an 8 game suspension, money wise) without SOME sort of management review and input from the guilty party and their legal representative.
2. The NFL has a graduated drug enforcement policy, mandating longer periods of time when flunking random drug tests. The problem here is it wasn't a test, exactly. But it should be treated like a first time flunked test, and clearly, it wasn't. I believe the first time flunking is a 6 game suspension? but I'm not certain. The second is 1 year, the third is your out entirely, although, even that can be overturned if Tags wants to.
3. Tags seems like he didn't take into consideration the fact that the Rams suspended Little for what, 10 games? last year. This in effect makes it an 18 game suspension, which is more than a 1 year suspension for second time drug offenders in league policy.
4. All leagues don't suspend people equally. Heck, the NBA doesn't even bother to test for marijuana. And an 8 game suspension is nothing in the NBA, NHL, or MLB with their long schedules. Outside of Sprewell, have you ever heard of a 40 game suspension?
5. Contractually, how can a guy practice and participate in preseason games if he isn't getting paid? What about injuries, and an injury settlement if he gets hurt? Doesn't this go against the league minimum pay policy or something? Plus, does he count as a roster spot, a practice squad spot, or what?? Is this some new category we're talking about here?
6. Very unequal justice on the drug enforcement. Lets see, a popular white QB [Favre] admits he was hooked on pain killers and forged prescriptions, etc to obtain them, yet the league never gave him a strike 1 for enforcement, because he "came clean"? Plus, not a single DA went after him for his wrong doings. Hmmmm.
7. Does the league start a totally ridiculous scale for these sort of things? ----DUI, no accident, popular player,--no penalty ----DUI, no accident, rookie, -- 1 game suspension ----DUI, w/accident, no injuries, popular player,--fine and reprimand ----DUI, w/accident, no injuries, rookie, --2 game suspension ----DUI, w/accident, serious injuries, popular player, fine and 1 game suspension ----DUI, w/accident, serious injuries, rookie,-- 5 game suspension ----DUI, w/accident, death, popular player, ??? game suspension ----DUI, w/accident, death, rookie, 18 game suspension. I certainly hope not. Remember this is for "shock value" to get you thinking, not a real proposal. If it had been a real proposal, I would have warned you in advance.
8. Wasn't there an OL a few years ago who had an accident that caused the death of a teammate? I can't remember all the details, maybe someone can help me to see if that's appropriate. Also, what about the WR Blades in Seattle who shot his own cousin. What was his league punishment?
9. Tags is getting really weird. First he fines someone who isn't even in the league (LP) if and when he returns, then does this without any explanation or discussion.
10. If the NFL were to suspend every player who went out and got drunk, then they would have a hard time fielding two teams on Sunday, let alone 31. If the cops were to arrest every drunk driver, then rush hour would be a heck of a lot easier.
11. The NFL is subject to anti-trust laws which has been proven in court. Hence something like this which is an the fringes of the collective bargaining agreement may be challengable in court.
Realize, I'm not posting this to make anyone mad or anything, I'm just bringing up some points as they pop into my head.
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2. ZACK RESPONDS
I agree with much of what you say, and I think your passions on this speak well of you and your sense of fairness. No matter. My response is limited to specific issues and has to do with what I have learned from reading the "NFL NATIONAL FOOTBALL LEAGUE POLICY AND PROGRAM FOR SUBSTANCES OF ABUSE." I just read them through once and re-read some passages, so I really don't "know" them-but I did learn some things from reading them (see the link above).
BRF--#1. I can't think of any union that would allow its members to be suspended without pay for � a year (the equivalent of an 8 game suspension, money wise) without SOME sort of management review and input from the guilty party and their legal representative.
ZN-I found out that nothing in the policies and procedures obligates the league to have a hearing in Little's case. The union helped form those policies and supports them. The policies allow the league to suspend any player who kills someone in an alcohol-related crime (see my next response). So, in effect, Little's guilty plea in the criminal trial provided the league with pretty much all it needed to know. Still, I agree that it was not good or wise to suspend Little without meeting with him or his attorney first.
BRF-- #2. The NFL has a graduated drug enforcement policy, mandating longer periods of time when flunking random drug tests.
ZN--The drug abuse or drug habit portion of the policy is not relevant to Little's case. Since Little's case does not raise drug or alcohol or dependency issues, it has nothing to do with the graduated enforcement thing. That's why it's different from Mack's case, for example (which is covered by different provisions). Little is being disciplined for violating one specific provision. It comes under section III, "Discipline for Alcohol-Related Violations of Law or Abuse of Alcohol." The relevant policy provision comes in paragraph B, "Alcohol-Related Offenses." It says "The Commissioner will review and may impose a fine, suspension, or other appropriate discipline if a player is convicted of or admits to a violation of the law...relating to the use of alcohol." Here's the sentence that applies to Little--"If the Commissioner finds that there were aggravating circumstances, including but not limited to felonious conduct or serious injury or death of third parties, and/or if the player has had prior drug or alcohol-related misconduct, increased discipline up to and including suspension may be imposed." That sentence allows the commissioner to suspend a player who kills someone in an alcohol-related crime--the terms of the suspension are left up to the commissioner. In fact, the whole policy leaves a lot up to the discretion of the commissioner when it comes to imposing the terms of suspension. I think it was designed to give him flexibility.
BRF--#8. What about the WR Blades in Seattle who shot his own cousin. What was his league punishment?
ZN--Blades was not convicted of anything. No conviction, no crime. So NFL rules don't apply.
BRF--#9. Tags is getting really weird. First he fines someone who isn't even in the league (LP) if and when he returns, then does this without any explanation or discussion.
ZN--They did not fine LP--they said they will fine him if and when he returns to the league. I would have to see the press release to know whether or not the LP situation went by without explanation. Bear in mind, just because the mass media doesn't print the release doesn't mean the league is silent on this issue. Actually, you can e-mail them and ask them to fax it.
BRF-- #10. If the NFL were to suspend every player who went out and got drunk, then they would have a hard time fielding two teams on Sunday, let alone 3.
ZN--The NFL's policies and procedures obligate them to consider and review and case in which a death is caused in an alcohol related crime. So, you're right, not everyone who drives drunk is liable. Those with repeat DUIs (like Mack), in other words players who clearly have a drinking problem, are covered by a completely different set of provisions and procedures.
BRF--#11. ...something like this which is at the fringes of the collective bargaining agreement may be challengeable in court.
ZN--The collective bargaining agreement lies behind the policies which led to the suspension. We can disagree on the severity of the suspension, but NFL rules and policies clearly do give the commissioner power to suspend someone when they cause a death in an alcohol-related crime.
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3. BAMA RESPONDS
Yes I saw the policy. While it gives the commish authority to suspend, it has absolutely no scale. Just "up to and including suspension" or some such terms.
When I used the term double jeopardy in a later post, I knew it was a legal term that didn't really apply here, but for lack of a better phrase, I used it. But we are now out of the criminal court type stuff, but heavily into the workers rights, compensation, etc, the old Human Resources side of the business. There federal laws are quite different. There is something called "minimum wage". Now, how does the commish expect anyone to work for over 3 months (training camp and regular season), without getting any salary? Isn't that work with no pay?? Even in retribution for internal damages cases, the court will set a limit that a company can garnish wages to ensure the worker can at least have money for food and rent. And that is essentially what this is, his pay is going to help repair the "damage" to the league reputation.
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