laurie_j1: can you naswer that question in 20 words lieth
laurie_j1: leigh even sorry
leighfrog2: errrrrrrrrrrrrrr nope
laurie_j1: didnt think so lol
lillipond: r u talking stonehenge?/
lagg is bad here today
laurie_j1: mm pace
lillipond: mm pace
leighfrog2: just a bit
lillipond: o kk
laurie_j1: i didnt knoe that the druids built stonehenge
laurie_j1: oh dear brain not working fingers
lillipond: well, maybe
leighfrog2: well they dont know if they did
lillipond: maybe legendary giants
lillipond: same as easter island
leighfrog2: who knows caus ei dont n thats the truth
eternumpace: whoever built it, we must always keep in mind that technology/magic does not necessarily progress in a straint upward line
laurie_j1: well said pace
lillipond: truh is that it took incredible astromomy to set those stones
leighfrog2: thaats well true
eternumpace: here here *applause of science
lillipond: i was watching tlc about ancient egypt
lillipond: amazing
lillipond: there were really 2 scropion kings
lillipond: as they were called
leighfrog2: just a lot a lot futher advanced than the time makes out they should have been
lillipond: hope to see the rock
laurie_j1: what rock
eternumpace: yes. that reminds me. much ancient architecture makes ample use of a mathematical harmony unbeknownst to any but the most imaginative archaeologists. some say the ark of the covenant (or arks) for instance contain a bible of such spacial harmonies and technologies and are/is kept by the Knights Templar
laurie_j1: mm silver
silverhawk112: mm ya'll
leighfrog2: hi silver
silverhawk112: how is everyone today
eternumpace: but my personal opinion is the beauty and its design is everwhere extant in todays world
lillipond: in the movie, i saw special cuts, its going to be a good special effects plus hes always great to look at, lol
greeting hawjk
leighfrog2: rite as 9 pence thanxs
laurie_j1: too early for me to tell yet thinking of going back to bed
eternumpace: its language, ideas of man and woman that we still have yet to master
lillipond: o yaa
eternumpace: iggy me if you don't want a whole heap of words to come...3...2...1...
leighfrog2: nice thought got to stop beatin the crap outa each other 1st
lillipond: true
eternumpace: A big arguement, Doc, against brute liberalism is the the world evolves only by going back into the past. That is a valid arguement in terms of quantum physics. And yet we are still taking a position. I have pointed from my position to several stories or myths, such as liberalism, conservatism, time, science. It really is all relative and then only to where I am and you are, which is anywhere and everywhwere really.
Do you believe that longstanding tradtitions are the same as perennial wisdom? Then you are a conservative. Do you believe that humanity's actions and hence traditions are spontaneous acts of creativity subject to cultural reformation, that we can alter both the future and the past? Then you are a liberal. And yet both, in process, are doing the same thing - taking a position within a field of infinite possibilities and connections because actuality and probablility and the entire unknown are pre-linguistic acts of sheer being, of God let's say.
Another way to put "ev
eternumpace: ... from book, Sunrise in New York, letters from a Satanic Angel
lillipond: sunday pm at 9 pm the real eve, dna findings
leighfrog2: to quote the immortal bard there are more things in heaven n earth horatio
eternumpace: than dreampt...
eternumpace: i love that one, leigh. bravo squire *
leighfrog2: not my words ...shakesspeare
lillipond: your interesting eternum
u 2 frog2
bbl
must re-boot
bb
eternumpace: ok. here comes one more regurgitations, you know the drill if ya done wannit
eternumpace: Another way to put "evolution" is that our actions as humans can be taken to be more precise manifestations of knowledge through the course of a given narrative i.e. history, orthodoxy, science, evolution etc. And the "course" can exist through space or time, memory or imagination because if true democracy gives our ancestors a voice then actual stands on the same ground as possible, known on the same ground as unkown, my life a position not just in this time but within the entire realm of existence. And, paradoxically, I therefore, like you or anyone else, am a purveyor of absolutely spontaneous instance/energy/matter/story and absolute tradition because power is a funtion itself of position, like the positon from which one might see a tree standing beside a blade of grass. My position effects my awareness of proportion, position, itself the only real actuality within a field of infinite and spontaneous potentiality. Proportion being the language of Pattern, Pattern the cohort lets sa
leighfrog2: look simply put the human animal is not smart enuff to comprhend all of that which exsists
--0ri0n--: wb shadow
laurie_j1: that would be nice leigh
and took less time to read leigh
-shadowdale-: Thankyou, Orion.
laurie_j1: mm shadow
-shadowdale-: Hello Laurie.
leighfrog2: hi shadow
eternumpace: good point, leigh. but what if human animal HAS been smart enough...?
-shadowdale-: Hi Leigh.
leighfrog2: look at what we have done with atomic testing on our own planet ..easy to understand what went wrong
eternumpace: I mean i hope no one think that all our esoteric traditions on earth were for but a few madmen singled out by the logos for paramount religious zeal
--0ri0n--: at this point in evolution i fear that "man" is simply too violent
eternumpace: we are all, i believe, masters of the universe. like the cartoon :-)
eternumpace: i agree and not, orion. i think if anything we are plagued with a positive idealism
eternumpace: that says only the positive is real
eternumpace: for we know, for better or for worse, humanity wants to be real
leighfrog2: man has a talent 4 war n untill we do somethin about it we dooming ourselves
--0ri0n--: then in that argument i say...theres far too many people with different views of whats positive who think they are right.....lol
laurie_j1: decision made im off back to bed mp all bb tc be well be safe
--0ri0n--: agreed leigh
--0ri0n--: mp and g'night
leighfrog2: mp oriron
--0ri0n--: im not leavin....was tellin laurie....
eternumpace: good point. i'll grant you that orion. my next point then would be that man has need of an ambivalent psychic parthenon in which to contlemplate the very real possible that he is his worst enemmy
leighfrog2: sorry oops
--0ri0n--: is alright leigh
--0ri0n--: and eternum......i dont mean to sound harsh.....but could you "dumb" that down a bit for me?
eternumpace: Pattern the cohort lets say of our literacy of consciousness because you will notice I started by saying that the enfoldement of action takes place through a story. The sun rises here and there.That is power. And so, as T.S. Eliot writes in "Four Quartets" we return to where we started and discover it for the first time, perfectly created and perfectly creative. We want this! All of this! Its all we will ever do and the best consensus I can find through the course of human history is that we are forever building a greater place in which to do it,even as that place already exists! and by it I do mean fucking in every sense of the word, but of course building a greater place is the same as forming as from clay a better face, a better story by which to relate where and why we are. So, you see, both the tenets of tradition and revolution are satisfied by our deepest desires as infinitely unique positions in the cosmos. All things are permitted, including non-permittence. We are gods, man.
leighfrog2: rubbish if we are gods that realy does not bode well for creation on the whole
eternumpace: Orion, i just refer to the archetype, like Oedipus Rex of the tyrant or anti-hero, that or who needs submit to his own folly
--0ri0n--: k
--0ri0n--: and i agree leigh
eternumpace: "Accept all" as oedipus says in sophocles classic "Oedipus at Colonus"
leighfrog2: but the human race is full of folly
eternumpace: islam! submit i say!
--0ri0n--: too true.....we have proved that over and over leigh
--0ri0n--: as a species we are still quite naive about the world and universe in which we live
eternumpace: i have one word that will solve all our worriess...
eternumpace: parthenogenesis
leighfrog2: why complicate matters the nutshell is man needs to calm down and wise b4 any more miraculouse discoveries will lighten the darkness of our lives
--0ri0n--: and i have one word too........."huh?"
--0ri0n--: lol
eternumpace: lol. it means reproduction without the needs for opposing sexes, orion *grin
--0ri0n--: ahhhhhh......asexual
eternumpace: yeah. i guess :/
eternumpace: but maybe that wouldn't be as much fun
--0ri0n--: very true
eternumpace: leigh. sorry. you are just making too much sense for the likes of me.
leighfrog2: but peacefull
--0ri0n--: peaceful would be nice
--0ri0n--: lol
leighfrog2: see wot i mean
--0ri0n--: but on the other hand......who's to say that all the free time wouldn't eventually turn to thoughts of war?
leighfrog2: been 2 war belive me it stinks
eternumpace: one of our greatest classics, Homer's Illiad is all about the art of war, no?
leighfrog2: and how mad it is
--0ri0n--: i should interject here that im un-comfortable with the phrase "ART of war"
leighfrog2: me 2 been there seen it HATE it
--0ri0n--: hell......i just went to basic......and i dont think there's anything "artful" about it
eternumpace: opinon well noted, Orion
eternumpace: Let us gather round and tell the story of today as though it were a thousand eons because it is and it is not, for doing and not doing are one, for all we do is dream or not dream. Peter grins and sits back. He leans and loafs and invites his soul.
leighfrog2: i was in the faulklands war n it sucks
eternumpace: i've never been to war and i done wanna so no argument from me there
--0ri0n--: you know whats ironic?......nations go to war in the name of peace
leighfrog2: so why oh why cant the rest o mankind just learn to get on
--0ri0n--: mm janta
leighfrog2: n people kill in the name of god ... a god of love n peace
--0ri0n--: seems kinda like an oxymoron doesnt it?
-janta-: cause according to darwin -cough- we're just monkeys and in the animal kingdom only primates foul their own nests
-janta-: MM gents
leighfrog2: pass me bananna then please
eternumpace: socialogists, now bear with me, might argue that war is a nonzero sum game, that is ultimate effect to is to improve life for everyone
-janta-: its just survival of the fittests on a technological level
--0ri0n--: so yer saying nuclear holocaust would improve life?
eternumpace: but what now if that were elevated to an information war
eternumpace: no. i don't think so, orion. its just a theory so imperfect most obviously
leighfrog2: information wars still kill
eternumpace: i have one last point now. there is evidence of a common human neuroses calle apocalysanoia
leighfrog2: by causing famines n allowing peoples sytems to be ruined bringing fiscal distruction
eternumpace: that being, we have all been thru cultural holocausts of one sort or another and have geneticall lived to improve and tell the story
eternumpace: apocalypsanoia
eternumpace: nature has killed millions as well over the course of the cosmic Round
leighfrog2: well im goin 4 a wander cya all soon
eternumpace: since the Renaissance, however, we have been granted the freedom to contemplate nature thru the human component
--0ri0n--: c-ya later leigh......mp and bb
-janta-: as it should..its part of maintaining balance..we have however tipped the scales and there is no balance now
eternumpace: aloha, leight. thanks for the good chat
eternumpace: i personally like mandela's comment that most people are afraid of how powerful they really are. i find it tres pro active
eternumpace: and pro creative
eternumpace: you really think there is no balance, janta?
eternumpace: sometimes i think the only thing really ill about the world is cynism or disinformation, not that i would accuse anyone but myself of the ssame. but nonetheless, a valid point i think
-janta-: no there is no balanceas long as technology comes into play..Im talking global not personal
--0ri0n--: i have to agree with janta.....just look at the news and tell me how "balanced" the world is
eternumpace: but what if technology or "the cyborg" archetype the builded other is as old as the human soul?
-janta-: those with technology..regardless of size have the power
eternumpace: i'm not sure. most of what i know about my soul i have learned from races and times that didn't have electricity much less the internet
eternumpace: power is all in perspective
-janta-: thats the thing..the shift from balance to chaos..we quit moving with our souls and started using our brains so much..again Im speaking globally
--0ri0n--: very true janta.....we as a people tend to use our brains where our souls and hearts should be making the decisions
eternumpace: chaos is type of knowing, like ontos(being), eros, agape
-janta-: people in general have no concept of true power of the essence of balance
-janta-: of=or
eternumpace: i like your point about the movement from soul to brain. lets pick up on that if we can please
eternumpace: we are certainly more mental than ever. no argument there
eternumpace: lol
-janta-: Not so long ago in our communal past..we used our souls to make decisions..if it felt right..we did it.we all came equipped to participate...then we began to think..or some did..and they hoarded the knowledge..throwing things off balance
eternumpace: here is where the barrier realy lies though, in my opinion, - in our command of the elemental
-janta-: with that hoarding..came greed and envy and the need for more concrete forms of power and the shift began..moving from the true power inside each of us to what has ultimately become the world in which we live..where few make decisions for the many and its all about extrinsic power
eternumpace: janta, your point is well documented in cultural history. however, it is widely believed that the "hording" or centralizingg of knowledge and its dissemination was a necessary evolutionary adaptation to the growing size of "the tribe" that in fact upon the introduction of modern "media" or "myth" such authoritarian regimes in soul and extant were permanently destabilized and set asunder
-janta-: and in todays society it isnt the size of the army or how many tanks you have that makes you powerful..its whats at our very fingertips..technology which is moving at warp speed..
-janta-: Im not saying we didnt need that growth...all things have their season and all things must ultimately perish to make way for the new..Im just saying the current state of affairs in the world today and tomorrow is a direct result of the inbalance
eternumpace: so , in a sense, janta, what i hear you saying is that the military industiral complex has created an apple in the internet that has not fallen far from the tree
eternumpace: i like that idea, really.
-janta-: Im saying knowlege=technology=power=chaos=?
-janta-: and chaos is a cosmic force that cant be denied..
eternumpace: well that is good to recognize i imagine
-janta-: and there is no going back..once the genie is out of the bottle..there is no reversal
silverhawk112: i'm back
-janta-: mm silver
--0ri0n--: mm silver & wb
eternumpace: janta, is there a hint of doomsayer in your voice? :-)
silverhawk112: had to get some new clothes
-janta-: even were we to experience an apocolypse that rendered society back to base levels..someone would recall what they once had and have the drive to obtain it again
-janta-: fatalist perhaps on some level
eternumpace: janta. i bet you really liked stephen king's The STand. I did, too
-janta-: it was good
-janta-: there is no "miracle" to "save" us..we are our own destruction
eternumpace: well if the world does blow itself up and i am lucky enough to be left alive, i will just say "outta sight and outtaa mind"
-janta-: many will
-janta-: few however wont
eternumpace: yes! that is the Tyrannus archetype i mentioned earlier. i dont think you were here, janta. the anti-hero
-janta-: and they wont stop to consider the blessing of continued life..they will work hard to regain something they lost and feel they need
-janta-: and it wont necessarily be the big fish that do it..the lil fish who thought they were denied will be the ones
-janta-: dammit..I dont have class today and here you are making me think....LOL..gee thanks
eternumpace: janta, your point, although profound and entirely well founded in today's climate, is a bit reductionist, no? if only in the sense that you disregard the a benevolent spirit to the historical spiral which as, Vico wrote has the thrice mythlogical epochs of age of gods, age of heroes, age of humanity and age of chaos, ever turning corso recorso
-janta-: now eternum only some of us recognize and actually listen to the voice of that benevolent spirit
-janta-: those of us that remember our souls and the power we all have
-janta-: which was my beginning argument
eternumpace: the great oracle Ges of Microsoft once said, the geeks shall inheret the earth
-janta-: just as the deaf ones will seek to recreate what they lost..the ones who can hear will continue to hope and move and live
eternumpace: Gates hehe
-janta-: if I survive some future cataclism..Ill be one of the first to dance
-janta-: lol while others scramble to put the pieces back together to do it all over again
eternumpace: janta, i hope you haven't lost your faith in humanity . or perhaps you are just tempering it with caution. afterall, we did make the refillable coffee mug
-janta-: I have faith..but its well placed
-janta-: and does not include coffee cups..lol
-janta-: I think,,my own spiritual identity is strengthened by knowing whats likely to come..and still trying to use my soul in spite of it
eternumpace: janta, you are scaring me.
-janta-: why?
eternumpace: you seem intent on assertig that the world is going to end
-janta-: well of course it will..in it's season
eternumpace: do you have to be so bloody pragmatic about it?
lillith_xox: eventually surely...only the timing is in question
-janta-: all things have a cycle
--0ri0n--: i disagree kinda.......the world wont end....just the world as we know it
-janta-: its one big wheel..turning at its proper pace
eternumpace: ty, Orion. that sounds a lil less threteaning to my naivee eye
-janta-: perhaps I should have qualified my statement with "as we know it" but even so..stars expode and plantes are destroyed
-janta-: it happens
-janta-: in its proper season
--0ri0n--: but in essence....yes the world will end....(ours anyway)
--0ri0n--: mm bc
eternumpace: i really dislike anti-establishment environmental eschatology
-janta-: MM BC You sexy thang
o0-----bc-----0o: mm orion,
o0-----bc-----0o: hehe, hugz janta
-janta-: -hugs-
eternumpace: i don't mean you, janta at all
-janta-: -whining- BC eternum is making me think..
o0-----bc-----0o: lol
-janta-: haha I feel better..i told on ya eternum
-janta-: -s-
eternumpace: its like, some xians think they invented God, so some environmentalists think they invented nature
-janta-: nah
eternumpace: are you disagreeing with me?
-janta-: the Mystery created everything and everything has its season and cycle
-janta-: death is just part of that cycle
eternumpace: hmmm. o...k. I suppose
-janta-: everything that lives..dies
-janta-: thats true balance
o0-----bc-----0o: *agrees*
-janta-: and one day
-janta-: this planet..our world..will die
eternumpace: janta you seem frightfully apolitical for a human being
eternumpace: here here
-janta-: so mote it be
eternumpace: me. i'm ahistorical, but no to apolitical. i'm british
-janta-: lol I knew you had to be
-janta-: I only have these really deep conversations it seems with brits..or those in UK anyways
-janta-: certainly dont get many of them here in alabama
-janta-: MM fatima
o0-----bc-----0o: mm fatima
eternumpace: we are the bastards of the free world
princessfatima: mm all
-janta-: lol and we americans are your leavings
-janta-: actually..I personally cant say that..Im swedish
-janta-: lol
eternumpace: I think as much of Americanism as I do anything
eternumpace: ever since I read Jack Kerouac's On The Road
o0-----bc-----0o: *grumbles.....canna find the feckin lighter*
eternumpace: just like Wordsworth made me fall in love with england again
eternumpace: i wandered lonely as a cloud / that floats on high o'er vales and hills /when all at once i saw a crowd / a host of golden daffodils
-janta-: nice
eternumpace: yeah
eternumpace: or Frost, "earth's the right place for love"
-janta-: hiya cutie>>
o0-----bc-----0o blushes a deep shade of pink
-janta-: ppffftttt
o0-----bc-----0o blushes a deep shade of pink
o0-----bc-----0o: aaaa
o0-----bc-----0o: bloody explorer
o0-----bc-----0o: *blushes*
-janta-: lol
-janta-: I love your hat BC
o0-----bc-----0o: =)
o0-----bc-----0o: i need a new one
o0-----bc-----0o: this one, me mate sat on it when he was drunk
-janta-: that just makes it fit better
-janta-: lmao
o0-----bc-----0o: yeah, fer a flat rock
o0-----bc-----0o: lol
o0-----bc-----0o: but next camden shoppin trip, i be gettin a new one....*woooo*
-janta-: oh that bad huh?
-janta-: hehe
o0-----bc-----0o: yeh
o0-----bc-----0o: he smooshed it, the drunk irish bugger
o0-----bc-----0o: thats the one thing this country has goin fer it.......the drink laws
o0-----bc-----0o: 18