General B&P Rules for New Members of the
DMB and related trading communities.


These are some simple guidelines to follow when trying to start a collection dealing mainly with asking for a B&P and how to go about setting one up. THIS IS JUST A GUIDE. Some traders may require more or less but these are what I feel the basics and would be accepted by most traders. Any comments or suggestions on how to improve these guidelines please email Ron Holewinski. I wrote these rules using DMB as the prime example but they can be applied to a wide variety of live music trading communities. So here they are.



Definition: B&P stands for "Blanks and Postage". This is where you send someone who has a show you are looking for blank CDs and return postage and they will burn the show and send it back to you. You put X CDs into a bubble wrapped SASE, place that with a note into a larger envalope and send it off.

Before I begin I would just like to say that live recordings are NEVER TO BE SOLD. Also, B&Ps are a 1 for 1 deal. This means if people ask you to send additional CDS (more than required to burn the show) you should not do that either. I should note that on large trades some people require you send 1 or 2 exrtas in case of errors, but they should be returned if there are no errors. It is okay to send extras to the person for doing the favor for you, to show your appreciation, but it is not okay for someone to take advantage of a new trader and require they send extra CDs for them to keep. That being said here are some basic guidelines.

A. How to locate a show.

  1. The first thing you will need to do before asking someone for a B&P of a show is to find someone who has the show you are looking for. A couple good places to start are:

    You can of course just cruise around the Web and try and find some sites but this may take a little longer.

  2. The best way to try and get a show you want is to individually email people with the show. Please be polite and appreciative. You have a much better chance of someone doing you a favor if you are nice. The words "Please" and "Thank you" go a long way in the trading community and they will better your chances of that person maybe helping you out in the future. If they can't do it for you, don't take it personally. Keep trying until you find someone who will help you out.
  3. Another good way to locate a show and find someone with it is to post on message boards such as Dave Matthews Band Message Board and put up a post asking if someone will B&P a show for you (an example of a post might be "Can someone B&P me 4.21.01?" or "ISO: 4.21.01 B&P"). This should really only be used as a last resort.
  4. Try not to be too greedy. Ask for a reasonable amount of shows (maybe 2 or 3). Please don't ask someone to B&P you 50 shows (believe me this happens). Some people might B&P alot of shows and do more than 3 per person but it is common courtesy to be reasonable in a request.
  5. If someone has a status of "CLOSED" on their site, please don't email them and ask them to do the show for you hoping they will make an exception. The traders put "CLOSED" on their site for a reason.
  6. Sometimes you will see a status of "MAYBE". In this case it is okay to email the person but I would suggest looking around first for someone who has an "OPEN" status.
  7. The last thing is to wait at least 2 WEEKS after a show to ask for it. Don't be emailing people or posting on the boards the next day after a concert asking if anyone has it. It takes time to convert the show and 2 weeks is a pretty standard time frame. If the show is out before then, people usually post that it is out. Then it is okay to ask for it.
  8. Make sure the trader has the show you want B&Ped on their list. Don't email the person asking "Can you let me know when you get the 6.20.01 show?" It is too hard to keep track of all the requests. Be patient.


B. How to set up the B&P.

  1. Once you hear back from someone and they agree to B&P a show for you, you then must get a package together to send it out to them. Some traders may require more or less in a B&P package but again here is what I think are standard basic ingredients and how to go about doing it.
    • For a return envelope, bubble mailers are usually standard. DO NOT use fiber mailers because they weigh more and some people don't like dealing with them and they can actually cause problems with your discs. Fill out your address on the return envelope. Don't leave the envelope blank so the trader has to fill it out, take a couple seconds and do it yourself.
    • Write a note with the following: your name, email, and the shows the person is burning for you.
    • put the note along with the blank CDs in the return envelope.
      NOTE: You might want to put the CDs in cd sleeves because it is cheaper on postage and works alot better than jewel cases because the packages aren't as bulky. You can buy CD sleeves at any place that sells CDs, they are in the CD storage section.
    • Your return package should now be set to go.


  2. If you have any questions about anything during the course of the transaction just ask the person. It is better to ask what may seem like a stupid question than to send a package wrong. Traders would much rather answer questions before the package is sent than to have to deal with messed up packages.
  3. Remeber to thank the person that is doing the B&P for you, I can't stress this enough.

C. What Type of CD-Rs to use.

  1. Make sure your are sending decent quality CD-Rs. Generic CD-Rs don't work in some burners. If you have a certain brand available, email the person and ask them if they are fine to send. Some top brands that are pretty good are Sony, Fuji, etc. Even if you have one of these brands still ask if it is okay to send that kind because the persons burner may not work well with a certain type, even if it is a name brand CD-R.
  2. Most people use computer based burners. You can use either AUDIO CD-Rs or DATA CD-Rs on these (most of the time anyway). It is important though that if you are sending CD-Rs to someone who has a Stand-Alone burner you send them AUDIO ONLY CD-Rs. These people will usually let you know ahead of time if they have a Stand-Alone burner. If they don't it is usually safe to assume they have a computer based burner. It still doens't hurt to ask if there is a doubt in your mind.
  3. Do NOT send CD-RW. Some types of CD-RW won't play audio and they are basically useless for music purposes.

D. Type of return postage to use and how much to put on.

  1. First thing is to remember to always use USPS return postage because it is easier for traders to send them back to you that way.
  2. DO NOT PUT METERED POSTAGE ON A RETURN PACKAGE. Sometimes the post office won't send it if it has metered postage on it and they give you a bunch of crap about it. Some types of metered postage are okay to use (if they have the Eagle on them) but these expire 3 days after the date on the postage. The package probably won't get there for at least two days so by the time the package is ready to be sent back the postage is expired. Only use USPS stamps for return postage.
  3. The easiest way to know how much return postage to put on the return package is take the return package to the post office, with all the materials that will be sent back to inside, and have the Postal Worker weigh the package. They will tell you exactly how much it will cost to send it back to you. Affix this amount to the return envelope (another option is to use Priority Mail reutrn postage, it is a little more expensive, $3.50 for a 1 LB package, but it will get back to you faster and you eliminate any question about the package having enough postage). Once that is in order, put the return package in another bigger envelope and address it to the trader doing the B&P.

    ****SIDENOTE: To save some money, you can put the return envelope into a regular manilla enveope. The envelope addressed to the trader does not have to be a bubble mailer. Since your CDs are inside the return envelope, they are safe from being damaged. This is of personal preference but is just a suggestion on saving a little extra money on postage and extra bubble mailers.


E. What to do when you have sent off your package.
  1. Just wait, it may take some time for you to get your package back. Every trader is different and has different turnaround times (some take a day or two and some take two weeks) so be patient.
  2. It is okay to email the trader in a couple days and ask them if they got the package. It is NOT okay to bug them after a week and ask them where your shows are. These guys are busy and have alot of other trades and B&Ps to do and I am sure have social lives and don't spend 24 hrs a day at a computer.
  3. If you don't hear from a trader that is doing you a B&P, don't worry. Some people don't email every person they receive a package from, it just becomes a hassle. Some traders just receive the package and send it back without emailing you to tell you that they got your package. If you want to know if your package arrived safely, email the trader and ask. And again, be patient and polite. Remember these guys (and gals) are doing you a favor so don't bug them to death with emails.


F. What to do when the package gets back to you.

  1. First, email the trader who did the B&P and thank them.
  2. Second, if you have a burner try and help out others who are looking to get started. We were all there one day and we all needed somebody to get us going. Spread the music, that is what this is about anyway.
  3. As a reminder, make sure to email the person who did the B&P and thank them. Remember, they took time to do you a favor.


SO TO RECAP:
  1. Locate someone with the show of interest and contact them. Make sure they have a B&P status of "OPEN".
  2. Be patient. Don't bug the hell out of the person doing the B&P for you.
  3. Be polite when asking for a show and make sure to thank the person.
  4. Make sure you send the correct amount of CDs (and the correct brand or type) and include a note in the package.
  5. Use bubble mailers only. Don't use fiber mailers.
  6. Use only USPS stamps for return postage. No UPS, FedEx, or metered postage.

That is about it. These are just a guideline to point you in the right direction. Most traders have B&P rules on their page that they want you to follow but most of those are just reiterate what was said here. Remember, each trader is different and some may have more stringent rules while others may be have more lenient rules. My suggestion is that if a trader has B&P rules on their page and they are doing a B&P for you, read the rules. The trader put them there for a reason. Any suggestions or comments about these rules (and possibly any additions) email me at the address above and I will try and work them in. Take care.

I would like to thank the following people for their input, suggestions and help with making these rules. These are some of the finest traders I have dealt with and are an asset to the trading community.

  • Chuck Tombasco
  • Rob Robke
  • Scott Pitner
  • Paul Matz
  • Matt Cornwell

    ******If there is anyone I forgot please let me know so I can add you to the list. Take care and enjoy the music.
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