Lefebrist Apologias

Apologia #1
This was two letters, which I have combined into one. - PM.

Dear Friends,

When Lent started a priest said, "It's time to go into the desert with our Lord . (i.e) It is the time to far remove our souls from the din of daily life and examine it. It is the time to re-read our Catechism several times and get a deeper understanding of the Faith. It is the time to meditate frequently on the Passions of our Lord."

We are Catholics; Christians because, we beleive in our Lord JESUS CHRIST and the Holy Apostolic Traditional Church instituted by Him.

I also, share your agony and indignation regarding the actions of the present Pope. But, in these dark-days we must not lose sight of some facts.

Our Lord has said that He built the Church on St. Peter and that the gates of hell would never prevail over it.

The Catholic Church cannot be without a Pope. Because the Pope is the Vicar of Christ (despite the state of his soul) and is an outward symbol of God's care for His Church. -----This should be easy to understand like the validity of the Holy Mass said by a priest having personal sins. The priest's sin doesn't intervene in the Holy Mass and the Pope's sin will not throw him out of office.

It is true that a heretic cannot be a Catholic.

The culpability of the person occupying St. Peter's Chair is for God to decide and is not for us. According to the Church-Laws, only a Pope can judge another Pope. Also the School of Cardinals are authorised to appeal to the Pope to correct his actions. But today we see this will not happen.

Burdened by these facts if one says "The Seat of St. Peter is vacant" then where does this " Sede vacantist" position lead one to:

How can there be no Visible Head for the Church?

Where will the New Pope come from in the future?

Which Cardinals will elect him? Which Bishops will become Cardinals?

Who will appoint them as Cardinals? What authority will such a group have?

Does Our Lord want us to tinker about like this?

Will such a tinkered outfit have any APOSTOLIC Succession or Traditional Legitimacy? Sede Vacantism will End up as a SCHISM, putting people OUTSIDE the Arc of Salvation. It has already done so!

WHAT MUST WE DO? ----- We must look up to our LORD and our HOLY MOTHER.

Our Lord JESUS knew that St.Peter will disown Him in the future and still ordained him as the first Pope. Then our Lord prayed for the Pope, "Peter, I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not; and thou, being once converted ,confirm thy brethren."(Lk.22:32)

Our Lord asks St. Peter to confirm his brethren inspite of his impending fall, for St. Peter was the Pope. St. John who witnessed the fall of the first Pope also didn't disown St. Peter!!

At Fatima our Holy Mother repeatedly asked us to "Pray for the Pope." Did we listen to Her? Have we obeyed Her atleast now? Did She not know that all these Calamities will befall the Church in our times? Yes. SHE knew everything and predicted every thing for us and still She said, "Pray for the Pope." (SSPX prays for Pope in every Holy Mass) She did not ask us to fabricate a Pope!

What do these mean?

Today there IS a Pope JP-II, whom we have to pray for obeying Her. ---The Seat of St.Peter is NOT vacant...

A Pope is needed to fulfill Her order of Collegial Consecration of Russia to Her Immaculate Heart, so that today's abominations could be thrown out.

The Pope is needed to obey our Lady so that the 'HOLY MASS of All Times' is unfettered to facilitate our salvation.

The Pope is needed for the "Triumph of the Immaculate Heart" and for the 'Period of Peace to the world.'

The Pope is needed to herald the "Social Reign of our Lord JESUS CHRIST"

This does not mean we go by JP-II's Non-Infallible Magisterium, which largely break-up from Tradition.
We resist at the face such teachings and follow only the Tradition.

It is the manifestation of the Divine guidance, that ArchBishop Marcel Lefebvre avoided the Sede-vacantist pit-fall. The poor souls who unwittingly left the fold on this point must return immediately to this Firm ground.

SSPX, following in the foot-steps of Archbishop Lefebvre will not do another Campos, for the SSPX has been selected by Providence to preserve the 'HOLY MASS of All Times' and provide for the 'Continuance of the Apostolic Tradition'.
It is good to remember that Our Lord appointed St. Peter as Pope before His Passion. Even after the Pentecostal Feast the First Pope, had to be "resisted at face" by St. Paul, etc. It is good to remember that a pope doesn't become infallible by his appointment. One has much to learn about the Pope's Infallibility and Magisterium.

A Pope can go wrong and many had gone wrong in the past. Most of JP II's actions are ruptures from Tradition which we must reject and resist at face. But we have no authority to remove him from the Chair of St. Peter.

In a family if the Head, the elderly Father contracts a sinful, a wasteful habit and become a slave of that habit how should his responsible children react?

Is the matter settled if they all say, "You are no more my Father"? Does his Paternity roll-back? Just because they said it, will he cease to be their Father? Can he cease to be one even if he wishes?

We almost have a similar situation with our Holy Father. We must accept him to be in the Catholic Church. We must pray fervently for him to obey Our MOTHER of GOD. Resist him at the face when he deviates from Tradition, emulating St. Paul, St. Athnasius et al, as recommended by St. Cardinal ROBERT BELLARMINO and other Saints.

There has to be a Pope for the Catholic Church. "Where the Pope is there the Church is."

Sedevacantism is about, "throwing the baby away with the wash water." It is fatal for our souls as it throws them outside the Church... you know where...!

One cannot appoint himself as Pope. One cannot become the "Vicar of Christ" simply by claiming to be one. The Catholic Church has a Traditional method for selecting the Pope and one has to undergo that.

Today's situation resembles the storm-rocked boat in which our LORD was sleeping. Let us pray, "Lord, save us; for we are drowning" and not jump-out of the Boat because her crew are not performing. The LORD will silence the storm.

R.A.G.R.

Apologia #2
Rob...

Where to begin...

Well, it's a relief to know that one of us finally has it ALL figured out.

Tell me, though... by what authority or insight do you judge the state of souls that attend the Lefebvrist Churches, or even the N.O.? Where does the accountability lie with those that go to those places? How do you define that?

Crimony, Rob, I'm not real enthused about the New Ordo either, but don't be so pharasaical as to assume that you're claim to heaven when you die somehow has more weight than any of those you mention.

God willing, Rob, we'll all get there... but I can promise you this. When your eyes adjust to the light up there and the faces come into focus, you will be just as surprised by the ones that are there as perhaps by the ones that are not.

It is a good thing, I suspect, that our merciful Lord does not use the same yardstick to measure as you do.

As a professional salesman, I know the importance of knowing my audience, and the importance of educating people and enabling them to make an informed decision.

I don't know if there are any NO or perhaps fence sitting people viewing this site who may be considering the Trad. Mass as the way to go... but I'm reasonably sure that your sharp and arbitrary classifcations of people will do nothing to build the Traditional movement or appeal to people's hearts, which is ultimately where the true faith must be firmly rooted.

Perhaps Saint Paul said it best ".......but if I have not charity, I have nothing."

God Bless

+RT

Dear Friends, - As a Catholic, I work from Catholic teaching, theology, etc., that Charles Wojtyla is not the pope. Therefore, I consider it sinful, excepting invincible ignorance, to celebrate and participate in a service "una cum" Wojie, as much as a service "una cum" the Dalai Lama would be.

What I want to know is: Is there justification for attributing Invincible Ignorance to Lefebvrists? I seriously doubt it, given the furious controversy and their vicious anti-sedevacantism: Remembering that Bishop Dolan, Frs. Sanborn, Cekada, etc., broke off on precisely this point.

The Lefebvrist position is a house built on sand - and it is precisely for this reason that it is comparatively easy for the rise of the Fraternity of St. Peter or for the apostacy of Campos, etc.

The Lefebvrist whom I know personally, and who introduced me to the thought of Dr. Rama Coomaraswamy - one of the chief ideologues of Sedevacantism, their India co-ordinator, quakes in his boots that one day sooner than latter, the SSPX is going to do a Campos.

I too believe that given its ideological position, it will do this, barring a small minority who will in probability be forced to become Sedevacantists. What I regret and what pains me is the loss of so many more souls to the Modernist apostacy!

Prax Maskaren, Bombay.

"shootist17" wrote:

I read the letter from Msgr. Perl of the Pontifical Ecclesia Dei Commission concerning Society of St. Pius X (SSPX) Masses, which was posted on the unavoce.org website.

From what I can gather from the letter (with direct quotes from the Letter):

1. The Masses of SSPX are valid, but not licit (which would actually be the case with any Novus Ordo Mass that was not celebrated in strict accordance with the General Instruction on the Roman Missal).

2. "In the strict sense you may fulfill your Sunday obligation by attending a Mass celebrated by a priest of the Society of St. Pius X."

3. "If your primary reason for attending were to manifest your desire to separate yourself from communion with the Roman Pontiff and those in communion with him, it would be a sin. If your intention is simply to participate in a Mass according to the 1962 Missal for the sake of devotion, this would not be a sin."

Are any others of you familiar with this letter? Does anyone have any comments about it?
presgerard wrote:

You will deny me three times by Jacob Michael, Catholic Apologetics International
Posted March 18, 2003.

Comment by RGPII:

Wojtyla is a thoroughly public heretic, a monster and not pope-and never was a pope. Peter's actions were allowed BEFORE he was pope, were not actions (therefor) under ecclesial/papal charism and (as oft stated) meant to humble him / to show him his own fallibility so soon after Our Lord had proferred the Primacy (which could have ONLY taken place with the Saviour's death and Resurrection -the Pentecost being the PUBLIC birth of the Church).

The writer and relayer continue to show impossible cause that the 3rd Person of the Blessed Trinity somehow sanctioned these last four claimants in the "auto-destruction" of the Bride of Christ. It is grievous error.The sophistication of Wojtyla's apostacy is wooing many well-meaning men into great error in even addressing this usurper as "Holy Father."

"Let no one at that day say in his heart 'unless God willed it, He would not have permitted' No, The Apostle forewarns you, saying not that they may be excused, but condemned."(St. Cyr. Catech. X V 16, 1 7)

God did NOT will these "elections."

In J.M.& J.

Robert/Chip Prescott