India Vs. Goa
From: "mysteryguyin1"
To: "P.J.M"
Subject: Re: Re: Response to article
Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 10:58:37 +0530
Dear Prakash,
>You have missed the central point of my pages on this subject, even of the particular page that you quote. And >that is that Goa is not legally a part of India, that India has illegally occupied Goa.
I would ask you to define india first for me. The point that india has forcefully occupied Goa is a joke to me. Are you trying to say that you prefered portugese occupation instead. Because I donot see you raising an eyebrow to the changes in culture portuguese have brought about to you.
>I rely upon arguments from law, morality and principles to prove myself. But to answer your other points:
What is law ? what is morality ? Isnt that something used by a society to save itself. Isn't that dependant on the government currently ruling you. In that case the law you have to follow is indian law and in that case none of your arguments hold.
>Goans are different because of their Lusitanian connection, which makes them exotic to the Indians >themselves despite their fervent claims - more to convince themselves than others - that Goans are >automatically identical with Indians!
Well marathi's are different cause of there maratha connection, Upites are different coz of their sindhi connection, I being a kasmiri am different coz of my afgany connection .. everyone has a connection sir u r not unique.
>Goans are also different because they belong to or are legally constituents and citizens of a different legal >entity, state or nation than India, and because it is India which is the greatest enemy of Goa and the Goan >people - because of India's malicious and baseless claims and pretensions on Goa and on the loyalties of >Goans and because of its immoral and illegal occupation of Goa, etc.
U seem to prefer the portugese occupation instead. Why is your history clock stuck to when portugal occupied goa. Diddnt they do it forcefully ? Werent u marathas before ???
>The "Beauty" of India leaves me cold.
What gets u hot then ????
>I DO NOT believe in "gaining Independence" from India. There is an important distinction in my case, from >that position. My case is that India did not have and does not have any legal or moral claim or basis to rule >Goa, that India is illegally occupying Goa, and that this illegal and immoral occupation must be vacated. That >position is very different from the concept of independence - which is secession. Goa cannot secede from India >for the simple reason that Goa is not a part of India.
Who are u to decide what is legal or moral? Do u think of urself as god? Please sir come down from heaven to earth and try to answer the basic questions of poverty, hunger and unemployment in goa if u really think of urself as goan. Such things as who occupies who are decided not by morality but by economics.
>As to your positioning of your two "categories": I do not belong to either.
Then why on hell are you against the indian government, if they didnt lay a disturbing finger on you. Sir there is a poor soul somewhere in goa who could use your help. Help him why add to troubles of others by raising such whimsical ideas.
>It does not matter that some Goans too collaborated and were party to India's invasion and occupation of Goa. >That does not make this legal or moral. These persons merely certified themselves Goan traitors, quislings.
Who are u to decide or tag them as traitors. Maybe they felt it best for the goan cause that goa be a part of india. The way you tag them as traitors they would tag you as traitors too. So I suggest u decide between urselves who a traitor is and then get back to pointing the blaming finger on the indian govt.
>How the situation handles out in Goa is no concern of Indians.
>Whether Goa is "viable" or not is not any concern of India or Indians. Internal difficulties of or with some Goan >minority segment(s) with the majority segment(s) is of no concern to India or Indians.
Are you so totally narrow minded as to not see the result of a civil war in a neighbouring country on the country. Have you not met the countless bangladeshi's in delhi.
>Men have the right to be concerned in their neighbours' affairs, only in so far as it concerns their common >humanity. However, because India has sinned - and continues to sin - against Goa, and thus against humanity, >it has no right to pretend any concern in Goan affairs - whether motivated by law, morality or concerns for the >common welfare of humanity. Goan patriots will not stand for it.
Please sir go tell this to pakistan or china. Pray do tell me about the sins you talk about. And again you are no one to decide what is moral or who is ethical. In the first para u seem to shout that it is immoral for indians to 'rule' goa and here u seem to say that india has no right even if it is moral to 'rule' goa. Sir, u seem to me as a terribly confused person who cannot decide on one line of argument.
>I do not care a damn about the Indian government's "difficulties" in "uniting" so many cultures and >"minorities". We Goans have not asked to be invaded, occupied and to be assimiliated, and all talk of India's >difficulties in its fulfilling its agenda of crime and misanthropy leaves us cold. And since we have never >legitimized the occupation, such talk is meaningless.
Sir if you hold an indian passport then u very well start giving a damn about indian govt.s difficulties. And yes it was goans who asked the indian army to enter to mantain stabilty. Also please point out who the we in above conversation is coz I think it is only u. I donot think that if today Indian army kills 20 innocent kasmiri's on the doubt that they are militants they are doing anything wrong. It is what the kasmiri people have bought upon themselves by aiding pakistan. I agree the congress ill treated a lot of poor kasmiris in kasmir but it is those people in the govt we, u and I, have to fight not the indian constitution. Why does a sardar or a south indian go fight for kashmir? answer me this. Why does a goan officer bomb positions in kargil? answer me this.
>As a Goan, I entirely sympathize with other nations victimized by India. Specifically, I thought that only the >Nagas and the Sikkimese had any legitimate grounds, but now I have convincing e! vidence that India did to >Manipur and the Khasi States, for example, what it had done to Sikkim latter in 1974... a forged, forced >accession where a king is forced to cede to India at gunpoint. I consider that all these actions are illegal, >immoral, null and void.
Just because u perceive india wrong makes other such whimsical ideas right. Sir, you really need to rectify ur definitions of right or wrong.
>You display enormous ignorance when you repeat the old lie spoon-fed in Indian schools by the Indian >government - that "ours is the only government in the world that recognises the right of an individual to be >different." I will not even attempt to answer that fantastic nonsense, the foolishness of which should be so >apparent to one reading the daily newspapers... to any sane, rational and major human being living in the >21st century.
How on earth do u know sir that what was taught to u was the truth? How on earth do u know that what u heard or just witnessed did not have some other motive. There are no truths in the world sir, except logical truths. (Logical truths are statements which are true by definition as in science.) There can be no statement no description that truthfully describes any situation. All the so called truth in the world sir adds up to one big lie.(I dont say that Bob Dylan does). Our lives here are a part of evolution of improvent of the species(living organisms) as a whole, there is no other truth. If u have the time money and resources to help a poor person out there do so now, donot waste your and my energies on opinions. Opinions can change, but the poor mans stomach doesnt wait for them.
>This attitude is the same old frog-in-the-well attitude. You will do yourself a great deal of good by junking the >official mythologies of Indian nationalism, mor! al (read Gandhian / Nehruvian / Socialist / Secularist, etc.) or >racial (Varnashrama and Manusmriti's dismissal of all non-Indians as Mlecchas - Barbarians) superiorities, etc., >taught you in school and at home, in the press and on Indian state t.v., and begin to interact with people >around the world and study them, their histories and their current affairs. You will then see what a foul mess of >lies you have been raised upon!
I hate all those. They just ruined the country. In every country that gained independence there was a person who single handedly drove his armies to victory. In india there was a person who said keep killing us till there will be no more to kill and then we will be free. What shit. I donot watch TV until unless there is some great cricket or soccer match. I have lived in a lot many states of india for periods more than 3 years. Have interacted with the locals in each of those states. The common man sir is too busy to think of himself as a part on india or as a part of his state. He just is interested in earning his livelihood. That is the true india as well as true goa for u. Wake up and look at it.
Yours Sincerely
Mysteryguyin, Human patriot.
Continued...