Sodomism in Goa
Goa-Goans Discussion Group
Message 9711
From: Douglas Paul - [email protected]
Date: Thu Jan 16, 2003 4:05 am
Subject: Re: Crime to be gay at Indian weddings?
In response to my posting, Prakash Joao Maskaren e-mailed me directly. Since I do not know him personally, and would prefer to conduct this discussion where it started - in this public forum, here is his message and my response to it.
Prakash Joao Maskaren's message to me reads:
>http://www.geocities.com/prakashjm45/goasag.html Collection of Posts
>http://www.geocities.com/prakashjm45/ldcae.html Catholic Position
>Prakash Joao Maskaren
My response: In the second geocities site the "Catholic Position" is provided (without references) and starts: "The Catholic Religion urges its claims to be the one and only true religion, established, commanded and guaranteed by God. When one examines this claim, one can arrive at the result that this claim is false or that it is true. If the claim is found to be true, then the many implications follow."
In my view, whether or not Catholicism is the only true religion, established, commanded and guaranteed by God, is a matter of belief. For those who believe in this, the implications indicated at the geocities site MAY follow (though even this is subject to debate and
revision - as evidenced by the Church's position toward married clergy, the solar system, and the Jews over the years to give but a few examples). However, many people do not subscribe to the Catholic belief, and for them these implications (on homosexuality) would not follow. Belief is not something that can be proved or disproved. Hence the case for respecting all beliefs, and differing points of view (as long as they do not espouse physical harm to others)
While much of what Prakash Joao Maskaren states in the geocities posting on Catholicism appears to be his personal belief, (delivered in a ranting, sanctimonious manner with particularly confused logic) he does however end on the right note: "To those who want that order of things, I say, you are welcome to it. I prefer the Divine order of things. Let the matter rest at that."
Amen to that. Live your life by whatever order you perceive to be correct, and let others do likewise without condemnation.
Cheers,
Douglas Paul
Message 9720
From: "Santosh Helekar Chimbelcho@a...
Date: Thu Jan 16, 2003 11:32 pm
Subject: Re: The amazing article cited by Douglas Paul
--- In [email protected], Douglas PPaul wrote:
>Prakash Joao Maskaren's message to me reads:
> http://www.geocities.com/prakashjm45/ldcae.html Catholic Position
I find the above article truly amazing. I am going to pretend that Prakash Joao Maskaren really means every word that he has written, and is not merely trying to be a troll.
So even if I assume that Catholicism is the only true religion, and has a monopoly on the ultimate truth, as he does, it is hard for me to see any logic or sense in most of his assertions.
For instance, few will fail to see the irony in the following three sentences occurring almost in tandem within the article:
>True and faithful Catholics have always, on the contrary, acted to defend the Holy Inquisition.
>
>Does Catholicism exclude Freedom of men? Many are the enemies of God who make this allegation, however, a study of history exposes this to be an utter lie.
>
>Catholicism has always shown itself to be the friend, guardian and patron of Free Thought, the Arts and of Science, purging them of all falsehoods and evils.
Holy Inquistion and Freedom of men and their Thought go together? Hmmm... And purging of falsehoods and evils by being the patron of Free Thought - Now that is one concept I find hard to grasp.
But wait there is more.
>It is impossible to see the positive contribution of such as an Osama bin Ladin, an Ibn Wahab, an Oliver Cromwell, a Luther, a John Calvin. And even if a Sodomite or Eclectist is a genius such as Michelangelo or Einstein, that still does not change the fact that their negative value far out weights their positive value.
>
>Such people are perverts. Their mission is to subvert Society. And no sane society can tolerate those who are out to subvert itself.
>
>Such people are like termites. They contribute nothing positive to Society. They are only a Cancer. And the Inquisition is therefore an Necessary Evil: Social Chemotherapy.
>
So a fundamentalist mass murderer is equal to a reformer, and both are equally evil. And what can anyone say in response to the insight that Michelangelo and Einstein have not contributed anything positive (or net positive) to society?
It gets even better.
>It is better, far much the better, that, to save some, indeed, very many souls, the Noahides, Sodomites, Eclectists and the like should be exterminated. The world will be better, cleaner, healthier without them.
>
Isn't this something that we really need to mull over? The proposal to resort to extermination to rid the society of what Catholicism determines as evil, on balance.
And finally, my favorite:
>If man has not been created by God but has evolved, then there is no such thing as morality. Morality, if Evolution is true, is a mere stupid, foolish, vain superstition.
I am not sure even my anti-Darwinian friend and beloved ex-TGF member, Bambino would have loved the above statement. The present Pope certainly disagrees with it. He has decreed that Evolution is true, and of course, he has never doubted the existence of Morality.
I wonder if Prakash Maskaren would care to defend his above assertions.
Now regarding the post of Douglas Paul, I think he is certainly right about the "confused logic" of Prakash's post, but I strongly disagree with his assertion that:
> Belief is not something that can be proved or disproved.
Religious beliefs about the physical world can certainly be proved or disproved by scientific investigation e. g. heliocentricity, creationism, vitalism, mind-body dualism and miracles.
Cheers,
Santosh