Mr. Lorenz… And His One-Man Circus
©Prakash J. Mascarenhas, Bombay, India. This page is Copyright.
This page is part of a much larger set, directed at exposing and destroying the fraud perpetrated by a bunch of jokesters and conmen, a feigned 'Pope Pius XIV' claim. See here for the main page: Dead Zhong - Dead Wrong.
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 11:10:21 -0500
To: [email protected]
From: "Pope Michael" <[email protected]>
Subject: The truth
CC: [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]
Dear Mr. Lorenz,
We have been recently informed of your calumnies and ask for immediate retraction:
When David Bawden called for a Papal Conclave in 1990, he was contacted by some people from out of town, namely (a) a man and wife, (b) their teenaged son and daughter, (c) another couple, (d) a single man, who wanted to run in the Conclave and lived near the above people, for a total of seven people. As I stated these people lived out of the town from St. Mary's, Kansas, but they arrived the day before the supposed conclave, they were staying in a motel just outside St. Mary's, and phoned David, at his uncle's place, so he told them that the conclave would be at 10:00 am the next morning.
Please identify the source of your information and the people involved.
In town lived (a) David (b) his parents (c) his uncle (d) Ms. Teresa Benns (e) Mr. Hunt, for a total of six people. To the best of my knowledge David, did not mention the people from out of town, when he held his conclave at 9:00 am, because he feared that Ms. Benns and Mr. Hunt might vote with the people from out of town, and then he would not be "POPE," because the out-of-town candidate would have had eight votes, while he would only have had three votes, since the candidates cannot vote for themselves.
David was asked to leave
1. the St. Benedict Center, of Fr. Leonard Feeney
2. a Thuc Seminary
3. a Seminary for the SSPX
4. the CMRI Seminary,
Please state the dates We were in each seminary and when We were dismissed, as well as the reason given. Also please state your source for each accusation.
But if thy brother shall offend against thee, go, and rebuke him between thee and him alone. If he shall hear thee, thou shalt gain thy brother. (Matthew 18:15)
Reprove a friend, lest he may not have understood, and say: I did it not: or if he did it, that he may do it no more. Reprove thy neighbour, for it may be he hath not said it: and if he hath said it, that he may not say it again. (Ecclesiasticus 19:13-14)
We find that you have violated this, and We suspected you were up to no good, when you sent the two questions. Therefore We shall reply to all. We await your immediate reply to these things, as the truth demands an immediate reply. (within 72 hours)
The burden of proof rests with the person who makes an assertion. (Canon 1748).
Pope Michael
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 11:44:21 -0500
To: [email protected]
From: "Pope Michael" <[email protected]>
Subject: Fwd: Re: Papacy
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 16:18:46 -0500
To: "Hans F. Lorenz" <[email protected]>
From: Pope Michael <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Papacy
At 03:38 AM 4/22/2003 -0700, you wrote:
My Dear Brother in Christ, Bro Hermenegild;
Pax et Bonum
I have three questions which I would like you to answer, to the best of your ability
(a) Who was the Bishop, that Ordained you?
We have not yet been ordained
(b) Who was the Bishop, that Consecrated you?
We have not yet been consecrated
(c) Who was the Bishop or higher, that took your Papal Vows and then Installed you as Pope?
The Roman Pontiff legitimately elected obtains, from the moment he accepts election, the full power of supreme jurisdiction by divine right. (Canon 219). Vatican II has changed the constant practice of the Church, requiring a man be a bishop prior to becoming Pope, and if elected he does not receive power until consecrated.
Pope Michael
May Our Lord Bless you and your Family, during this Easter Season.
Hoping to receive your answer, very soon, I remain
Your brother in Jesus & St. Francis
+Hans F. Lorenz, LBSF, OFM(min),
Rt. Rev. Dr. Hans F. Lorenz, LBSF, OFM(min), STD, ThD, DD, CD, A Bishop of Pope Pius XIV, RIP
We adhere to Traditional Roman Catholic Doctrines of Pre-Vatican II. We refuse to accept the Novus Ordo Services or sacraments. We do not accept Vatican II Popes, or their teachings. We are sedevacantist.
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 11:48:35 -0500
To: [email protected]
From: "Pope Michael" <[email protected]>
Subject: Answer to Lorenz
Dear Prakash,
Since you may wish to verify things We are sending you what information We have and will try and locate some other information. We ask that you do not post or forward this information until after Mr. Lorenz's deadline from Us expires. However, please feel free to make whatever investigation you feel is necessary.
When David Bawden called for a Papal Conclave in 1990, he was contacted by some people from out of town, namely (a) a man and wife, (b) their teenaged son and daughter, (c) another couple, (d) a single man, who wanted to run in the Conclave and lived near the above people, for a total of seven people. As I stated these people lived out of the town from St. Mary's, Kansas, but they arrived the day before the supposed conclave, they were staying in a motel just outside St. Mary's, and phoned David, at his uncle's place, so he told them that the conclave would be at 10:00 am the next morning.
A. No man and wife were involved, save Mr. and Mrs. Hunt and Our parents.
B. No teenaged son was involved, Mrs. Benns' teenage daughter was present. (She may have been 11 or 12, she can verify this information.)
C. Another couple, again false
D. A single man, who wanted to run in the conclave. This is false on one count, one does not run for Pope. There is an old saying, the man that enters the conclave as pope leaves as Cardinal, indicating that desiring the papacy is usually not rewarded by election.
In town lived (a) David (b) his parents (c) his uncle (d) Ms. Teresa Benns (e) Mr. Hunt, for a total of six people. To the best of my knowledge David, did not mention the people from out of town, when he held his conclave at 9:00 am, because he feared that Ms. Benns and Mr. Hunt might vote with the people from out of town, and then he would not be "POPE," because the out-of-town candidate would have had eight votes, while he would only have had three votes, since the candidates cannot vote for themselves.
A. I lived in Saint Mary's, six miles east of the place of election, Belvue,
B. My parents lived at the same place (301 Durink), and owned the place of election.
C. This is laughable, as We would not participated in an election that would have admitted any of Our uncles. We have four Uncles, two on each side. Uncle Gene Hoffman, the only baptized Catholic, died in the V2 sect in December, 1989 and was buried according to its rites. Uncle Milt Gravatt is an atheist. Uncle Chester Force is a Protestant of some kind, and Uncle George Bawden, was an Episcopalian, deceased in 1991.
D. Mrs. Benns lived in Denver at the time.
E. Mr. and Mrs. Hunt lived in Hillman, Michigan. All three traveled by car to the place of election. (I am supplying their current address)
Robert Hunt, 34414 Co Rd 41G, Del Norte CO 81132
Mrs. Hunt also has email at [email protected], although it is at her daughter's home that she can access the internet and is currently out of town for a much needed vacation. If you wish to email, I will alert her family to expect an email for her.
If you wish to submit questions to Our mother (Our father is deceased), please email them and We will hand them to her. We must type the reply, as she does not do anything with computer. Alternatively snail mail may be used, if you wish.
This intimates we received a phone call and did not inform anyone. Since everyone was staying at Our own home, everyone knew when the phone rang.
Election Update 2 states that the election was slated for Monday July 16 at 301 Broadway, Belvue, Kansas at 8am. We believe the time was moved to 9:30am, but have not yet located the summons. In any case, We urged people to come early, so that they could make the Profession of Faith. On Sunday, July 15th, seven people made their Profession of Faith in preparation for the election:
In the afternoon of July 16th, Ken Mock and Patrick Henry showed. They claimed to be there to participate, but Mock was there to try and stop the election. We believe he brought Patrick Henry, an ex-CMRI priest, with him for moral support. We do not know the whereabouts of Mock, but Patrick Henry can be reached at:
Patrick Henry, 7067 S. Tumbleweed Dr., Safford, AZ 85546. [email protected]
On the morning of July 16th the election was held as announced in the summons, which was mailed to many people, including Mock and the people we are about to discuss.
About an hour after the election was completed, Thomas Hempel, now deceased, from Eldridge, Missouri, and two of his sons arrived to participate. Now this is interesting, they know the time, they knew the place and one of the boys had made the trip from their home to Our place in Saint Mary's, Kansas the previous summer, so they should have known how long the trip took. Since the trip was short, compared to what many would have made, We believe that they were imprudent in setting out on the day of the election, when they could have easily set out the previous day, or combined business with Church work and taken a load of fire wood to Kansas City, which is roughly half way, to sell on Saturday and proceeded on to the place of election.
Mr. Hempel wrote a letter that was published in Briton's Catholic Library Letter number 7 under the name Mr. U I, because the publisher, the heretic Mr. Martin Gwynne usually did not reveal sources. This letter was wrong, although We would have to look for Our copy.
It should be noted that Mr. Mock also spread the calumny that We had resigned in favor of Linus II, when in fact We did not even hear about Linus II, until presented with a question about this statement. This calumny has been spread, although Bishop Lopez-Gaston has stated in a letter to Us, that Our election was not even considered prior to the Linus II election. (He was aware of Our election and probably received a summons.)
David was asked to leave
1. the St. Benedict Center, of Fr. Leonard Feeney
2. a Thuc Seminary
3. a Seminary for the SSPX
4. the CMRI Seminary,
In answer:
1. We don't know for sure where the St. Benedict Center is, although we could look it up. However, We categorically state We have never held or had any association with the Feeneyite heresy, but have in numerous letters refuted this damnable heresy, using the teaching of Trent and Saint Thomas Aquinas, as well as the fact that there are several who were martyred without Baptism of water, listed as Saints in the Martyrology.
2. Our only connection with the Thucites was to apply to Bishop Musey, who never answered Our reply, although We did go to the May 1982 Bishops meeting in Dallas, Texas, where We met Bishops Carmona, Zamora and Musey. Also present were then Frs. Fouhy, McKenna and Vezelis, whom from what We witnessed would have voted least likely to be consecrated for his defense of John Paul II as pope.
We had known McKenna, but were not pleased with him, prior to this, having served his Mass in Tulsa in the mid '70's. We also knew Vezelis, when he served with the Society of Saint Pius X from 1978 until 1980, when he founded his Franciscan Monastery in Rochester, New York.
Also present was Bishop Joseph Mari, an old-Catholic, who ordained James DeKazel on behalf of Bishop Musey in 1980 or 1981. I also knew Bishop Musey, when he served Topeka, Kansas for a time in 1981.
3. Our family was with the Society of Saint Pius X from 1974, until my resignation from Saint Marys in 1981. I was dismissed without cause on December 15, 1978 by Donald Sanborn. I say without cause, because Lefebvre accepted my appeal in a personal meeting in 1979, although none of his promises in this regard were every kept, despite several hand delivered requests that he fulfill his promises.
4. We believe the CMRI seminary is in Spokane, Washington; but we have never been in Washington state or its former home Idaho.
You may wish to contact:
Jean Andre Perlant, 55 rue Bras-Marie, 64340 Le Boucau, FRANCE
He was aware of the election, but never explained why he did not participate. We met him in June of 1989 to discuss the Papal Election in a small town west of Des Moines, Iowa.
After this We went back through used book stores in Omaha, Nebraska. We believe the CMRI bishop is in Omaha, but We have never met him. We also believe he comes to the Riarchdson family in Topeka, Kansas for Mass. We have been in Omaha one other time, February of 1999, to visit bookstores on the way to Chicago.
We are forwarding Our reply to Lorenz. WE fully wish to be ordained, and you have stated this correctly in your letters.
Mr. Bawden alleges as his just reason that it is illegitimate to solicit and receive orders from heretics and schismatics; that even the Thuc lineage gives a bad, suspicious odour.
I find myself unable to disagree with Mr. Bawden.
I understand that it is Mr. Bawden's position that he will be willing to be ordained and consecrated by a man possessing indubitably valid orders even if received from schismatics or heretics if that person will first abjure his errors and submit to him (Mr. Bawden, as pope) and be absolved for the crime of receiving orders irregularly. I find that I am unable to disagree with that attitude.
You may wish to look at the Newspaper articles on Our website, as well. http://www.PopeMichael.Homestead.com/NewsPaperArticles.html.
May God bless you,
Pope Michael
From: [email protected]
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 17:36:22 EDT
Subject: Re: My last on Lorenz
To: [email protected]
Prax,
I hope you don't mind me using your "nickname." It is just easier for me to remember at this stage in my life when everything begins to fade some.
Here is the truth of the matter about who attended the election. I came from my home in Denver, Colorado with my daughter Aimee, 13, and my son, Josiah, 7. Bob and Diane Hunt came from their home in upper Michigan. David's parents, Clara and Kennett, lived in St. Mary's, Kansas at the time. A Ms. Andriessen came from Belgium, I believe, and stayed with David's parents. We all suspected her as a spy.
The night of July 15, Ken Mock and Patrick Henry showed up trying to talk us out of the election. We desisted and they left. The morning of July 16 prior to the election, Ms. Andriessen traveled with us to a store the elder Bawdens owned in a nearby town, then left in a cab for the airport while we were preparing for the election. After saying opening prayers with us, Aimee and Josiah waited in the outer room away from where the election was held. David, myself, Clara and Ken Bawden, Bob and Diane Hunt then cast secret ballots to elect a pope â€" three men and three women voted. Following the vote, the ballots were then burned according to laws governing a papal election .
As we exited the store to return to the Bawden's home for lunch, we were greeted by Tom Hempel and his two sons from nearby Missouri who asked if we had held the election. We said yes and they grudgingly gave us credit for having gone through with it, but then descended to rude remarks. The pope dismissed them and we left.
Later that day we spoke to two sets of reporters, one from a local TV station and the others from a local newspaper. Also that day Reuters wire service contacted us. Later towards evening we received a call from someone trying to disguise their voice and obtain information about the election. We decided it was Martin Gwynne or John Daly and hung up the phone. We also granted interviews to other newspaper reporters over the next few days.
I have not lived in Kansas since my family of birth moved to Colorado in 1965. Hunts lived in Kansas briefly in the late1970s, but moved to Colorado in 1980 or 1981. They then moved to Michigan in 1984, returning to Colorado in 1994. All this can be proved through phone book, employment and home ownership records.
David had no uncles living in St. Mary's or living in Kansas, for that matter. His mother had no brothers and his father's brothers all live(d) out of state.
The Bawdens are very gracious and would gladly have welcomed last-minute arrivals for the election. We all wanted others to participate and would have done everything necessary to see they could participate. They were very open with all that was going on and were never furtive or secretive by any stretch of the imagination.
Anyway, the night before the election, David, his parents, Hunts, and myself did not retire until late and until that time, all of us were at the Bawden home. Nothing untoward ever happened and their phone was in a public place.
Also, I know that David was in two Society seminaries â€" one in Michigan and one in Switzerland. I spoke to him frequently at his parents' home from 1985-1990 before the election. We checked out Gary Giuffre in Texas together in 1989. Just so you know. Whoever is spreading these calumnies can't be someone who knew David well pre-election, as all the details are wrong.
Of course we know the enemy is a liar and will attack us in this way so shouldn't be surprised.
Just hoping to set the record straight.
God Bless,
Teresa
Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 07:14:42 -0500
To: [email protected]
From: "Pope Michael" <[email protected]>
Subject: Election
Dear Prakash,
I found some more information on the election. The election was commenced at 9"30 and completed by 9:45. Thomas, Matthew and Albert Hempel arrived at 10:30. Thomas is the father and Matthew and Albert were in their early 20's. Thomas is now deceased.
Pope Michael
Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 13:33:56 -0500
To: "Prax Maskaren" <[email protected]>
From: "Pope Michael" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Hans Lorenz
Dear Friends,
Allow me to clear things up. Br. (not the Protestant Bro.) Hermenegild is my name in the Franciscan Third Order. Someone else asked if I was a member, and they are the one who referred Mr. Lorenz to myself. He addressed me by this name rather than as Pope Michael. I pray this has not caused any inconvenience.
Pope Michael
At 06:29 PM 5/2/2003 +0100, you wrote:
Dear Friends,
I think I now know why Hans Lorenz attacked Pope Michael.
I had asked Pope Michael and everyone else who had been in contact with the Zhongs to provide me with any information, emails, etc., that they (Zhongs) had sent to them, so that I could use these to further expose them (the Zhongs).
HH Pope Michael sent me a some emails. On the basis of that I was able to develop further my exposes.
However, in using these emails as the basis of these exposes, I set out to systematically delete all personal names and identification marks.
Thus I deleted from them the names "Pope Michael" or "David Bawden" besides all email ids, etc.
I noticed an unknown name: Brother Hermenegild. I thought of asking HH Pope Michael who this was, and if it was another name he used, but in my haste or perhaps laziness, I can't remember which, overlooked to do so, and to delete this name.
From your latest emails, I now have come to realize that this is indeed so; that "Brother Hermenegild" is a name that HH Pope Michael uses. Unfortunately, I was not aware of this fact.
That (appearance of the name of "Bro. Hermengild") would have provided Lorenz the idea that H.H. Pope Michael was aiding me in my expose of him, and thus the idea for revenge...
That at least is my reconstruction of Lorenz's activities.
I apologize for my oversight, and for the inconvenience that this has caused.
Yours sincerely,
Prax Maskaren