on-reflection-digest Friday, October 1 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1889 Re: gg: Keneally's NGaM; better than a Mellotron; Strawberry Fields; odes; semi-lurker; new Yes; Magma; Bert gg: digital audio questions Re: gg: digital audio questions Re: gg: mastering question gg: Sym-phoney gg: Cirkus/Jacksonville; Astros/Rangers; The Ladder; Mr. Newby; the 7 Deadly Sins Re: gg: mastering question gg: Re: No GG: DJ Jizzy Jim needs help! gg: Peter Hammill Tour Dates gg: Re: So many great responses! Re: gg: mastering question gg: Re: The Ladder Re: gg: mastering question; Phish concert Re: gg: Re: The Ladder gg: RE: Cirkus/Jacksonville; Astros/Rangers; The Ladder; Mr. Newby;the 7 Deadly Sins Re: gg: Cirkus/Jacksonville; Astros/Rangers; The Ladder; Mr. Newby;the 7 Dead... gg: Bearded Portnoy gg: Annie Haslam Re: gg: Cirkus/Jacksonville; Astros/Rangers; The Ladder; Mr.Newby;the 7 Dead... gg: more Good news on Bert ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 30 Sep 1999 09:24:43 -0500 From: "Lindsey Spratt" Subject: Re: gg: Keneally's NGaM; better than a Mellotron; Strawberry Fields; odes; semi-lurker; new Yes; Magma; Bert On Wed, Sep 29, 1999 3:06 PM, Scott Steele wrote: > >Did he travel with that rig for the famous Beck/Jan Hammer concert tour > (on which he performed "The Earth Meets the Sun" from Days>)? > > "Darkness: Earth in Search of a Sun". Whatever. > And I'm not a keyboard player but I > would guess that that was indeed the Freeman that we saw Jan playing just > seconds before Jeff came on stage with his big entrance (pretty cool eh?). Very, extremely cool. I thought he was a roady (roadie?) just messing with the equipment until he turned around and started playing. - -lindsey ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 10:45:29 -0400 From: Richard Hilton Subject: gg: digital audio questions Hiya Drew: At 6:00 AM -0700 9/30/99, owner-on-reflection-digest@lists.uoregon.edu (on-reflection-di wrote: >Question for the tech types: With the emergence of 24-bit cds into the >market I've gotten all excited that perhaps, at last, cds will take on the >total sound characterstics of lps. I had read somewhere awhile back that >this was likely to be true. Next question is, are cd players in general >capable of processing all of that digital information.... No. CD format is 44.1k, 16 bit technology. What those people who print that stuff are talking about is the way the recording was done prior to the mastering for CD. For example, the record we're doing now was recorded multitrack to 48k, 24 bit, and is being mixed to 96k, 24 bit. Now....all this wonderful sounding stuff will be mastered in the analog domain, and then transferred back to 44.1, 16 bit. The thinking here is that the longer the word length that can be maintained in the early stages, and the higher the sample rate, the better the end product will sound regardless of the fact that it's a CD because the degradation that occurs with the 16 bit sound will have only happened once, at the end of the process, rather than earlier on. See.....when processing digital information, the processing has to exceed the word length of the audio being processed. Let's take a 16 bit word to start with - when you start processing that word, the resultant word is almost certainly going to be longer than 16 bits (much like when you randomly divide two whole numbers, the result almost always ends up having a decimal or two). So the internal processing that allows the sound quality to be maintained has to be, just for the sake of argument, at least 32 bit so as to not round off the resultant number that occurs after processing (see the subject of "dither" for a more detailed explanation of this). This is the beginning of understanding why it's better, even with a 16 bit delivery system (CD), to use the highest bit depth and sample rate possible. One of the funniest things I've ever seen, however, is the "20 bit mastering" label on "The Last Giant Steps". Here's a source that is obviously a cassette audience recording (liner notes to the contrary notwithstanding), sounding shitty to start with, and then mastered to 20 bit! This is turd polishing taken to its extreme. There would've been no difference of they'd been at 16 bit, because the source was such a piece of shit to start with. >is there going to need to be the >"next generation" of disc players to play these things and capture all of >the contained (potential) sound? The current thinking is that DVD audio is going go allow for 96k (possible 192k), 24 bit home playback, possibly even 6 channels at once (surround). Your current equipment will not handle this. They'll sell you new players, and then they'll re-sell you all that stuff (software....music.....) you already had on vinyl that you've bought over again for CD. This is why we're mixing to 96k now....when the players arrive, we'll be ready. > Finally, I assume a separate transport/DA >converter might do a better job of decoding info (and thus revealing all of >the "colors" of the music, at least making it possible for the preamp/amp to >use the information)...yes? no? This is a separate issue. Yes, at the current standard of "best", there are outboard converters that probably sound better than the stuff built into your CD player. As always with the audio biz, there's always something out there that's more expensive and sounds better....the question remains, how much to you want to spend for how good quality? The rule here, as with most things, is "good, cheap, and fast - pick two". There is an excellent source of articles on this topic for the novice and professional alike (with much clearer descriptions of the stuff I attempted to explain above), at the Apogee web site (where the information is mixed in with pitches for various gear that they make and i use.....). Go to: http://www.apogeedigital.com/notes.html Start with "app note 13", which is an excellent introduction to the principles of digital audio in general. After reading that one, you might find other articles on there of interest to you. Best, Rich Richard Hilton/Boppybop Toons Inc. http://members.aol.com/hiltonius/BTI_page.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 13:33:43 -0400 (EDT) From: mammienun@webtv.net Subject: Re: gg: digital audio questions Rich took the words right out of my mouth. That is exactly what I was going to say. No really, word for word! (plagiarist). Yes Drew...that's right. Just when you think it can't get any better, it does. Or at least that's what 'they' want you to think. At least this time around, the players for the new stuff will still be compatible with your soon to be obsolete cds. So Rich...how long do we have to wait for consumer line DVD recorders? Take your time...I've got all day. Back to the drudgery, mammieworkingalldayjoe. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 12:38:28 PDT From: "Dan Weese" Subject: Re: gg: mastering question >Question for the tech types: With the emergence of 24-bit cds into the market I've gotten all excited that perhaps, at last, cds will take on the total sound characterstics of lps. Ugly physics lesson follows, expect brain freeze shortly: The Nyquist frequency is the bandwidth of a sampled signal, and is equal to half the sampling frequency of that signal. If the sampled signal should represent a continuous spectral range starting at 0 Hz, the Nyquist frequency is the highest frequency that the sampled signal can represent. Therefore, half of 44.1 is 22.05, which represents an upper frequency limit of 22.05 kHz theoretically (to prevent the ugly demon called Aliasing); in practical terms, the real upper limit is much lower, circa 19 kHz. A 16-bit sample can contain 65,536 possible levels of sound dynamics. In the case of 24-bit samples, these can contain up to 16,777,216 possible levels. Never mind that there is, at present, no such thing as 24-bit resolution (there is the small matter of the inherent thermal noise barrier of resistors that may prove to be as intractable as Einstein's speed of light), and there may never be. The highest audible frequency, 20 kHz, is actually beyond the range of most humans-if you listen to a lot of loud music, you probably can't hear much beyond 15 kHz-but some people and most dogs can hear this high pitch. Standard sound reproduction gear works over the range 20Hz to 20kHz. In short, though there might be some benefit in capturing the non-hearable parts, you can't hear it. I expect to hear howls of rage from the sound purists, but you can't argue with the physics of the problem. I've built speaker testers for Panasonic and others. The reason why LPs sound so warm has more to do with the analog nature of the recording medium itself. Fripp waxes eloquent on this subject. When Bob Ludwig set up at Masterdisk to do his LP mastering, he did wonderful work, knowing the limitations of his medium. When some of these jamokes sit around and make a CD, they create horrible tinny overbright recordings because they don't take into effect the actual speakers the CD will be played on, they get it to sound good on their studio reference speakers, the end. Berry Gordy used to mix his hits down using a pair of car speakers, because he knew that was what his music would actually be played on. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 16:07:19 -0400 From: Jonathan Roberts Subject: gg: Sym-phoney Sven Eriksen contended: > Jan Hammer used a Mellotron on "Seven Days". I think he acquired the > Freeman later, but I may be wrong here. The Freeman is listed in the credits of , along with the Mellotron. I don't think I said he used ONLY the Freeman on that album... Best, -- Jon jonathan roberts \ the region of where guitar:synth:notes \ mailto:nartsegg@pobox.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 15:16:22 -0700 From: "Scott Steele" Subject: gg: Cirkus/Jacksonville; Astros/Rangers; The Ladder; Mr. Newby; the 7 Deadly Sins >I have a question about the King Crimson CIRKUS (sp?) cd(s): Does it include any of the live at Jacksonville 1972 performance that has been released to DGM club members? One or two songs. >I want to find a way to get a copy of this (official) without joining some club, or paying for 3 or more of the DGM releases that have been released as an expensive package. The only other official alternative that I can think of is to buy the Japanese version from the Artist Shop. Ch-ching. Or petition Mr. Fripp at the DGM guestbook. >(c'mon Astros!...geez...) How about an Astros-Rangers World Series? I could care less, the Dodgers and Mariners are both sucking wind violently. >Maybe they can tour with Spock's Beard or something. Maybe I'm not over-the-hill enough to appreciate it. Let's all keep talking about Ladder - this is fascinating. I haven't decided whether to buy it or not, and I'm relying on you all. >Again, I thank you and will slip into a LURK mode until I'm faced with another big decision. That will never do Mr. Newby. You must learn to type faster. >(all songs about religion, sex [yeah!], and a seven CD series based on the Seven Deadly Sins). What was on the Sloth CD? What a kick! This is a great idea. - S. np: the whirr of the power supply scottst@ohsu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 19:33:54 -0400 From: "Drew W. Eaton" Subject: Re: gg: mastering question But isn't there something to the idea that 24 bit might give you more data in any given range....kind of like increasing the number of pixels on a screen? BTW, thanks for the feedback, and another thanks to Rich Hilton for a fine explanation. I've another question for both Dan and Rich: both of your explanations seem to follow a slightly different path (although both of you brough up the "bit" :-) about half of the sampling frequency.) Are these different elements of the same problem or are you just explaining them in different terms? Drew - -----Original Message----- From: Dan Weese To: on-reflection@lists.uoregon.edu Date: Thursday, September 30, 1999 4:04 PM Subject: Re: gg: mastering question >>Question for the tech types: With the emergence of 24-bit cds into >the market I've gotten all excited that perhaps, at last, cds will take on >the total sound characterstics of lps. > >Ugly physics lesson follows, expect brain freeze shortly: > >The Nyquist frequency is the bandwidth of a sampled signal, and is >equal to half the sampling frequency of that signal. If the sampled >signal should represent a continuous spectral range starting at 0 Hz, >the Nyquist frequency is the highest frequency that the sampled signal >can represent. Therefore, half of 44.1 is 22.05, which represents an >upper frequency limit of 22.05 kHz theoretically (to prevent the ugly >demon called Aliasing); in practical terms, the real upper limit is much >lower, circa 19 kHz. > >A 16-bit sample can contain 65,536 possible levels of sound >dynamics. In the case of 24-bit samples, these can contain up to >16,777,216 possible levels. Never mind that there is, at present, no >such thing as 24-bit resolution (there is the small matter of the inherent >thermal noise barrier of resistors that may prove to be as intractable >as Einstein's speed of light), and there may never be. > >The highest audible frequency, 20 kHz, is actually beyond the range >of most humans-if you listen to a lot of loud music, you probably can't hear >much beyond 15 kHz-but some people and most dogs can hear >this high pitch. Standard sound reproduction gear works over the >range 20Hz to 20kHz. > >In short, though there might be some benefit in capturing the >non-hearable parts, you can't hear it. I expect to hear howls of rage >from the sound purists, but you can't argue with the physics of the >problem. I've built speaker testers for Panasonic and others. > >The reason why LPs sound so warm has more to do with the analog >nature of the recording medium itself. Fripp waxes eloquent on this >subject. When Bob Ludwig set up at Masterdisk to do his LP >mastering, he did wonderful work, knowing the limitations of his >medium. When some of these jamokes sit around and make a CD, >they create horrible tinny overbright recordings because they don't >take into effect the actual speakers the CD will be played on, they get it >to sound good on their studio reference speakers, the end. Berry Gordy used >to mix his hits down using a pair of car speakers, >because he knew that was what his music would actually be played >on. > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 09:25:52 -0700 From: "Frank Lauria" Subject: gg: Re: No GG: DJ Jizzy Jim needs help! From: Jim Klocek "and a seven CD series based on the Seven Deadly Sins" Are you using any of Joe Jackson's "Heaven & Hell", Jim? P-Frank ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 21:50:52 -0400 From: Gary Davis Subject: gg: Peter Hammill Tour Dates Hi, folks: Here are the most recent details of Peter Hammill's impending North American tour. You'll also find these posted on my Fie page at . There are three dates still listed as TBA; let's hope they get filled. October 26 Salle Octave-Cremazie Grand Theatre de Quebec 269 boul Rene-Levesque est. Quebec, QUE G1R 2B3 Canada $24.00 October 27 Cafe du Palais 182 Wellington North Sherbrooke, QUE J1H 5C5 Canada 819-566-8977 $15.00 October 28 Cafe Campus 57 Prince-Arthur East Montreal, QUE H2X 1B4 Canada 514-844-3442 $20.13 October 29 Zaphod Beeblebrox 2 363 Bank Street Ottawa, ONT K2P 1Y2 Canada 613-594-3355 $16.50 October 30 Le Maquisart 323 rue des Forges Trois-Rivieres, QUE G9A 2G9 Canada 819-374-9789 October 31 Off November 1 TBA November 2 Theatre of Living Arts 334 South Street Philadelphia, PA 19147 215-922-0666 $16.50 advance / $17.50 day of show November 3 TBA November 4 The Bottom Line 15 West 4th Sreet New York, NY 10012 212-228-6300 $20.00 November 5 TBA November 6 Phantasmagoria 11319 Elkin Street Wheaton, MD 20902 301-949-8886 $17.00 November 7 Recher Theatre 512 York Road Towson, MD 21204 410-547-7598 $17.00 Gary ************************************************************** Gary Davis The Artist Shop The Other Road http://www.artist-shop.com artshop@artist-shop.com phone: 330-929-2056 fax:330-945-4923 SUPPORT THE INDEPENDENT ARTIST!!! ************************************************************** Check out the latest Artist Shop newsletter at http://www.artist-shop.com/news.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 09:52:38 -0700 From: "Frank Lauria" Subject: gg: Re: So many great responses! From: "this is an AWESOME list!" Ain't that the truth?!? P-Frank ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 20:17:22 PDT From: "Dan Weese" Subject: Re: gg: mastering question Drew asks: >But isn't there something to the idea that 24 bit might give you more data >in any given range....kind of like increasing the number of pixels on a >screen? As Rich points out, the real point of capturing a wider sample has more to do with error correction than actual reproduction. The simple answer is, yes, 24 bits gives you more "data" but it doesn't really matter much until it reaches mixdown, when it goes to 16 bit anyway. It's easier to think of it this way: in the bad old days, people would run tape through the old Studer recorders as fast as it could go. Why so fast? To capture dynamic range. Sure, you can make a passable recording at lower speeds, and it sounds good on playback, but the ear isn't all that demanding. It's only when the music is re-recorded, remember, mastering is making a definitive recording of a recording, which in turn will make the recording you will play, all these added up to a substantial loss of dB. The digital world suffers from some of the same problems, only of a more subtle variety. If you were just recording a band live, taking a 16 bit sample off the board, it would sound good enough. But remember, your speakers aren't perfect, nor is the amp. There's a high bandpass filter on mixdown, pruning off the really high frequencies, so aliasing doesn't happen. The pixel example you gave is exactly to the point, the little "jaggies" you see on the screen are visual aliasing. Audio aliasing is the same thing, the sound curves get jaggy. Both can be compensated for by anti-aliasing, feathering the edges of the curves. This is where the extra bits come in handy. >you brough up the "bit" :-) about half of the sampling frequency.) Are >these different elements of the same problem or are you just explaining >them in different terms? Not really, a sound wave, like a water wave, has to return to the point it came from before we call it a "wave". Take the following series of numbers. 50 50 50 50 50 That's silence. xxxxx Here's another series 50 51 50 49 50 Visually, that's this: x x x x x One complete sine wave cycle. Now put that through a digital-to-analog chip, amplify it, feed it to a speaker, and you'll get a tone, at some frequency. If these numbers are being fed to the converter at 100 numbers per second, the highest tone it could represent would be half the rate of the numbers, anything higher would be lost: the sample wouldn't produce the sine wave. So this little wave would be 50 Hertz, or a waveform of 50 cycles per second. More numbers per second, higher Hertz waveforms can be captured. Now, all the tones we can hear represent series like these, combine them, and you get Fourier series, a profile of all the combined waves. This gets pretty hairy about here, FM synthesizers start here, combining waveforms to get very complex sounds. The ear can sort it all out, but mathematically, it's a beast of a problem. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 20:23:31 -0700 From: John Eric Ellison Subject: gg: Re: The Ladder The final verdict for me on the new Yes is that I liked only one song. The rest disappointed me. I'm not a hard-core Yes fan, in that I don't cling tenaciously to Fragile and Close to the Edge as the only real Yes albums (What about the ones before that? I loved those.). In fact, I liked Trevor's work. Let me put this in perspective. I didn't like any of the new material in the two "Keys to Ascension" releases. They were boring. I don't care much for Steve Howe. I have my doubts about Billy Sherwood, because of his involvement with the last two CD disappointments. I didn't like Tormato, but I did like Going for the One. I enjoyed Relayer, and would have been tickled to see Moraz on stage with Wakeman and Kaye during the Union tour. My, my, what egocentric friction THAT would have been ... well, maybe not. Hm. Anyway, this should give you an idea of where my tastes are at, so you know how to place my opinion of the new one. Chow JohnEric Scott Steele wrote: > Let's all keep talking about Ladder - this is fascinating. I haven't decided whether to buy it or not, and I'm relying on you all. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 21:14:08 -0700 (PDT) From: James Warren Subject: Re: gg: mastering question; Phish concert {warning: long email} - -Drew posted some questions about 24-bit technology and cds. Since I am not one of those "tech types" (esp. compared to others on this list), I can't answer the specific questions. However, I am passing along some related info. from a good friend of mine that IS an expert. This is stuff that he emailed me personally... stuff that is so good, imho, VERBATIM, that I'm comfortable sending it to this great public list, minus his name and email address. I'm sincerely asking that if any list members strongly disagree with the following, that they please keep the rebuttal at a civil and non-threatening level of discourse (thinly veiled message to the distinguished Rich H.). > James, > 24/96 is going to be the new (already is on some) > DVD audio standard. CD's > are 16 bit/ 44.1 KHz audio. The 24 bit is good > because it increases > amplitude resolution quite a bit (no pun intended) > and gives a much greater > (theoretically) dynamic range and a lower noise > floor. The 96 KHz is total > bullshit and a waste of storage space. Some video > guy must have done it. > The reason CD's are 44.1 KHz sampling rate is > because of the Nyquist > frequency. Basically this means that to reproduce a > frequency, the sampling > rate must be twice that of the frequency you are > trying to reproduce. > Humans have a hearing range of 20-20,000 Hz (some > claim 22,000 but it's > fairly rare). Do the math (40-40,000 Hz sampling > rate will produce all the > frequencies you can hear). 44.1 KHz even gives you > some room, assumably for > bad converters and the like. Maybe the guys who > created this are hoping to > tap into the lucrative "music for dogs" market. ;-) > Does that clear things up? - -------- ...in other news, here is the setlist and some comments for the Phish show last night (the first I've attended), in the Pyramid Arena - Memphis, Tennessee: I: Runaway Jim > Free, Driver, Taste, Dirt, Nellie Cain, Stash* > Theme from the Bottom, Tweezer Reprise =intermission; during which a prize was announced for the first fan in attendence who was able to correctly identify what every song in the 1st set had in common--->all were in the key of D= II: Gotta Jiboo > Also Sprach Zarathustra ("2001" theme with laser light show) > Down with Disease, Billy Breathes, Get Back on the Train, Mike's Song -> Catapult -> Mike's Song -> Kung -> Mike's Song > I Didn't Know** > Weekapaug Groove Encore: Cities (added lines about Birmingham, AL and Memphis. Trey Anastasio (sp?)changed the words to Home of Elvis and BBQ. * - with "Can't Turn You Loose" tease and "Happy Birthday" to Trey at the end ** - with Jon/fishman on vacuum - -My friend and I are both 30 years old. I think that put us in the almost nonexistent group of "senior-citizen" attendees! I have also never seen that many people REALLY dancing as one. It was a good show, and I had fun and am glad I went. Highlights: Stash, Theme From the Bottom, Tweezer Reprise, Cities, and one song (don't know which one...maybe "Mike's Song?") that had some quirky and awesome Gentle Giant-like acappella vocals! After their lenghty treatment of this, a college-age guy turned around to me and said, "man, that was just awesome! I've never heard ANYTHING like it!" :-)Downers?: I can't believe I'm saying this!-- some of the jamming and sounds got TOO WEIRD AND LONG for me!... esp. during that 2001: A Space Odyssey part. Also, some "kids" on drugs, or doing TONS of nitrous (sp?), seemed to be really hurting...that part was sad. I also noticed that the crowd was almost EXCLUSIVELY white. While it is uplifting to me that so many young people are interested in experimental and challenging music, it is unfortunate (esp. in places like Memphis that are majority black, and with some racial divisions) that its appeal doesn't cross those racial lines. JJW n.p. Dave Matthews/Tim Reynolds LIVE AT LUTHER COLLEGE ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 08:32:58 +0100 From: "Fred Rosenkamp" Subject: Re: gg: Re: The Ladder JohnEric wrote: >The final verdict for me on the new Yes is that I liked only one song. Please release the tension: which one? :-) I actually agree with you on liking the early work. My introduction to Yes was the Yes Album. This has always remained my bottom line fav. album. But I never really got into the two first albums. ('Though the jazzy hi-hat/staccato theme from "Everydays" used to be one of my favourite themes in those days, without me knowing that it was Yes. It was used as a leader on early Dutch 'Radio Veronica' for an item in which they (non-stop) played 3 songs by 1 artist. I found the theme quite fascinating; never heard anything like that before...) Cheers, Fred ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 02:48:19 -0400 From: "Nick" Subject: gg: RE: Cirkus/Jacksonville; Astros/Rangers; The Ladder; Mr. Newby;the 7 Deadly Sins Scott wrote: >How about an Astros-Rangers World Series? I could care less, the Dodgers and Mariners are both sucking wind violently. Let's go Mets Let's Go Mets Let's Go Mets Oh ... sorry, Excuse me. >Let's all keep talking about Ladder - this is fascinating. I haven't decided whether to buy it or not, and I'm relying on >you all. Save your money. Buy the Happy The Man reissues instead. >>(all songs about religion, sex [yeah!], and a seven CD series based on the Seven Deadly Sins). >What was on the Sloth CD? What a kick! This is a great idea. - S. Er... um... Lazy -- Deep Purple Who Knows Where The Time Goes -- Sandy Denny Sleepy Time Time -- Cream No Time -- The Guess Who Nobody To Depend On -- Santana Behind The Wall Of Sleep -- Smithereens I Just Don't Know What To Do With Myself -- Dusty Springfield Tired Of Waiting -- Kinks Anything by Sleepy John Estes Anything by Sleepy LaBeef and. . . Sloth -- Fairport Convention and: http://www.geocities.com/EnchantedForest/Dell/5094/Sloth.html np: Genesis: The Lamb, live, from the first box, because the "new" phoned-in "Carpet Crawlers is SOOOOOOOO lame. - --Nick ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 02:48:35 EDT From: SPBrader@aol.com Subject: Re: gg: Cirkus/Jacksonville; Astros/Rangers; The Ladder; Mr. Newby;the 7 Dead... Skart arsks: << Let's all keep talking about Ladder - this is fascinating. I haven't decided whether to buy it or not, and I'm relying on you all. >> Buy it or the cute puppy dog dies. S ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 10:30:58 +0200 From: "Jan Dubbe" Subject: gg: Bearded Portnoy Scott Steele wrote, after reading that I went to the Spock's beard show by bicycle: 'I wish I could bicycle to a Spock's Beard show. I wish I could drink some De Koninck. I'll have another cup of that French Roast if you don't mind. Do the French drink French Roast? - S." Guess what happened? Some 30 km away from Hengelo, Mike Portnoy of Dream Theatre was doing a drum clinic that same evening. I'm a drummer myself but I'm not too fond of Mike's playing as I like to listen to musicians rather than mathematicians, but anyway, Mike must have hit his clinic to a quick finish because he joined Spock's Beard for the last couple of songs and, who would have expected otherwise, his 126th drumsolo of that evening. A rather unique occasion though! The De Konincks came in the original round "vases" (so called "bollekes") and there was plenty of it. No rain on the way home, which was a good thing for I was already drenched from within, so to speak. np: Finch, Galleons of Passion ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 12:11:22 +0100 From: "Ant" Subject: gg: Annie Haslam - -----Original Message----- From: Drew W. Eaton >some too. The other element of this is that Mary Ramsey is a very special >presence on stage. Perhaps the most enticing female performer I've seen >since I fell in love with Annie Haslam the first time I saw her. She exudes >an amazing combination of innocence and sexual energy that the men I know >just lose it over Hey I'll be seeing Annie tonight supporting Caravan. Amazing Blondel are also on the bill. I'll be there with Jesus Tapia so we'll let you know how she did. Ant ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 08:02:12 -0400 From: "drj_saro" Subject: Re: gg: Cirkus/Jacksonville; Astros/Rangers; The Ladder; Mr.Newby;the 7 Dead... ><< Let's all keep talking about Ladder - this is fascinating. I haven't >decided whether to buy it or not, and I'm relying on you all. >> > >Buy it or the cute puppy dog dies. > >S > that's the _only_ way that Yes can still sell records! thank you for your time and attention. Julius J. SAROKA drj_saro@neo.rr.com Cuyahoga Falls OHIO ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 13:04:10 +0100 From: "Ant" Subject: gg: more Good news on Bert Hi all, just spoke to Bert again and he was about to leave the hospital. and has been told he can use his leg as long as he keeps it up in the air for a while every day. I suggested the Can-Can but he was wary of that idea. He will be flying to NY on Wednesday 5th. Also he is concerned about where we shall meet on Friday. Is there a consensus on that? Where are the people who can't come to Heartland but are coming on Sunday going to meet us? Bert says "Get it sorted" or he'll hit you all with his crutch. Ant ------------------------------ End of on-reflection-digest V1 #1889 ************************************