on-reflection-digest Saturday, August 28 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1837 gg: mammiepoll Re: gg: In A Quebecois Glass House gg: new mammiepoll Re: no gg:Skunk Baxter... Re: gg: In A Quebecois Glass House gg: Who Julian should see; Fish Rising; Flecktones; the sky goes all the way home gg: Re: DELIVERY - "Fool's Meeting" / Steve Hillage's "Fish Rising" Re: nongg: Steve Hillagefish gg: ellipses (was Re: Pretentious; GYBE!; Ponty DiMeola Clarke; NFL!; Mammiepoll;Baxter) gg: NoGG: Jellyfish gg: Fish Rising gg: Manticore paper cover reissue gg: Free Hand and CD review gg: Skunk Baxter... Re: gg: In A Quebecois Glass House Re: gg: Pretentious Re: gg: In A Quebecois Glass House Re: gg: DELIVERY - "Fool's Meeting" / Steve Hillage's "Fish Rising" Re: gg: Flecktones gg: Pretentious Yes/GG Re: gg: In A Quebecois Glass House gg: Re: Re: GG <-> Yes Re: gg: Gier goes to GorGG ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 19:54:20 +0200 From: "Jorunn Nome & Bert Vijn" Subject: gg: mammiepoll Words from the Mammiewise: > When you 1st heard GG, did you like them immediately? '74 or so, I was 17 or 18. I've told the story before, and won't repeat all of it, but I heard GG first time when TPatG was new. See, a guy had told me there was this "great band called GG that requires a lot from the listener and ah just forget it it's probably too advanced for you... ". After that I _had_ to try, but somehow this guy had gotten to me. Though I loved Proclamation right away and kinda liked So Sincere, I doubted if I would have good enough ears for this So Sincere stuff. Just in time I got some degree of a grip and bought Octopus (the Roger dean cover did it!), only to return within the hour to buy TPatG as well, with a check I had found on my way home. This is theft, boys and girls! And the only story I can tell my grandchildren as well. How sad! ;^) c-ya, v-bert ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 17:18:15 -0400 From: "dr" Subject: Re: gg: In A Quebecois Glass House Well, thank you very much on behalf of the city where I was born ! :-) QC is one of the last remaining places in America ( I think...) where a prog band may play live with a respectable number of people in the audience. DR - -----Message d'origine----- De : Benson, Tom À : 'on-reflection@lists.uoregon.edu' Date : 27 août, 1999 13:43 Objet : RE: gg: In A Quebecois Glass House >This probably doesn't help this specific request, but I have to share this >anyway... I just returned from a trip through parts of Canada, and I was >mightily impressed by the high profile of "PROGRESSIF" music in record >shops in Quebec City. I may have to move there. > >In fact, one shop actually had a hanging display which was a repro of >the 'window' picture from the IAGH cover! It was hanging over the prog >section and said something like "In a Glass House - available here - >limited quantities." I just about fell over. They had 2 copies (Terrapin). >I did see a copy in another shop as well. So, for those who can't wait >any longer, Quebec City is a great place to visit anyway... > >Tom > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 17:25:32 -0400 From: "Adrianne Bosco" Subject: gg: new mammiepoll > This discussion got me thinking. It's time for another > mammiepoll! When you 1st heard GG, did you like them immediately? Did Okay, I'll unlurk for this one... I was 22 when I discovered GG (long ago in Nov 98 ;). A coworker of mine is a prog fan, and GG is his favorite band. I hadn't heard any prog other than Rush and Tull, so he offered to make me a tape. It included 7 GG songs, including Playing the Game, Cogs in Cogs, Boys in the Band, Knots, etc. I fell in love with Playing the Game and Cogs in Cogs, so I ordered Power and the Glory soon after. I've slowly been getting the others, but I'm now so overwhelmed with new music that I can't keep up. After all, I have 30 years of great music to catch up on! Adrianne www.connix.com/~abosco "Shake your head as the world just nods away" - echolyn ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 17:29:27 -0400 From: Tomas Subject: Re: no gg:Skunk Baxter... At 12:13 PM 8/27/1999 -0400, veeter@vermontel.net wrote: >Yeah, I was excited to hear Jeff 'Skunk' Baxter was running, till I >heard he was running for the Grand Old Party(of corporate welfare, >billionaires and neanderthals). You'd rather he run for the Jackass Party of whiners, liars, and the "do it for the childern" manipulators? :-) *************************************************************************** * Tomas * "Tolerance is the virtue of the man * * West Chazy, NY USA * without convictions." - GK Chesterton * * tomas@slic.com * * *************************************************************************** * Howie Web: http://www.howies.org/ * *************************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 15:47:57 -0600 From: Michael Eisenberg Subject: Re: gg: In A Quebecois Glass House Hi all, dr wrote: > Well, thank you very much on behalf of the city where I was born ! :-) > QC is one of the last remaining places in America ( I think...) where a prog > band may play live with a respectable number of people in the audience. > DR I'm just curious what you consider a "respectable" number is...I've had some shows in Chicago that I though were attended by a respectable audience. Sure, we aren't talking the 70's here where they used to fill up amphithearters but if I get anything over 75 and the band sells a bunch of cd's and is happy by a very enthusiatic 75...then I certainly consider that "respectable". Michael Eisenberg - -- Outré Music Music Beyond Boundaries ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 15:09:16 -0700 From: "Scott Steele" Subject: gg: Who Julian should see; Fish Rising; Flecktones; the sky goes all the way home >I need some help picking out which Jazz gig to attend with my wife at the free Montreux Detroit Jazz Festival on Labour Day Weekend. >THE ELVIN JONES MACHINE(Most likely will attend this?) >JOEY DEFRANCESCO(Miles and Mcglaughlin's organist) You may get lucky - Joey and Elvin did a duo in Paris. It was supposed to be a trio but McLaughlin called in sick. Go see both of these guys if you can. >Also, should I buy Steve Hillage's "Fish Rising"? I had Hillage's "L" and didn't care for it much. Is "Fish Rising" a piece of crap or does it deserve all the praise? Please let me know. Fish Rising is killin'. It's the big jam-out portions of Gong "You" separated out into its own record. It's better than any of the Gong records. So go get it now. Don't listen to that man Simon. >I don't recall ever being turned off or unmoved by something done by GG until that infamous blue album with the mask on the cover.... Made for a tasty piece of candy though. >do you guys have recommendations for exploring the Flecktones - what to check out and what to avoid? Avoid none. Seek out Live Art. >www.zoo.co.uh/~nw/thesky This worked when I changed the h to a k. I want to buy this CD. - S. np: Firesign Theatre, Waiting for the Electrician (Let's go pick up Tiny Dr. Tim) scottst@ohsu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 18:37:14 -0400 From: "drj_saro" Subject: gg: Re: DELIVERY - "Fool's Meeting" / Steve Hillage's "Fish Rising" - -----Original Message----- From: Reginald Dunlop Subject: gg: DELIVERY - "Fool's Meeting" / Steve Hillage's "Fish Rising" >Hello again Giants! >Has anyone purchased the reissue of DELIVERY's "Fool's Meeting" on Cuneiform >Records? If so, is it worth the money for hearing some early Pip >Pyle(drums), Phil Miller(guitar) and Steve Miller(keyboards). i have had a tape of the LP for years and only listened to it a few times (you know my appetite for C'bury, so that should tell you _something_.). >What I really want to know is...Does it sound anything like Caravan or Hatfield? there are little instrumental bits that _do_, but they are few and far between. >Is this classic Canterbury or 2nd rate Canterbury material? the thing is, it isn't very stereotypical "Canterbury" at all - it's much bluesier, with a female R&B-type vocalist (and you seem to have a higher tolerance for blues/R&B than i do, if i remember correctly.) > >Also, should I buy Steve Hillage's "Fish Rising"? now _this_ is a must have if you like Khan or Hilliage's contributions to Gong. it is much less "shiny" than "L" and much more _fun_. thank you for your time and attention. Julius J. SAROKA drj_saro@neo.rr.com Cuyahoga Falls OHIO ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 20:13:07 EDT From: Claudio666@aol.com Subject: Re: nongg: Steve Hillagefish In a message dated 8/27/99 9:19:11 AM Mountain Daylight Time, chiefs18@hotmail.com writes: << Also, should I buy Steve Hillage's "Fish Rising"? I had Hillage's "L" and didn't care for it much. Is "Fish Rising" a piece of crap or does it deserve all the praise? Please let me know. >> Buy it!!! Hillage and Stewart really groove on this one. It's one of my personal faves if that means anything to you...I like "L" too, but "Fish" is much better. Claudio ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 20:18:29 -0700 From: "Frank Lauria" Subject: gg: ellipses (was Re: Pretentious; GYBE!; Ponty DiMeola Clarke; NFL!; Mammiepoll;Baxter) Thanks to all for the GYBE! responses...I may be checking them out next week (they're 2nd billed to Mogwai--now anybody got a take on them?) Thanks also to Bro Sqeele for the P-D-C info...glad you enjoyed the Kazuhito Yamashita tape (I still owe you a track list). Sorry Slammin' Simon won't be able to make Nyuk-Nyuk this fall...hope your sitch improves soon. Julian, any one of those shows would be cool...but if you wanna hear a burnin' '90s version of Jimmy McGriff/Jack McDuff-style jazz organ, you can't beat the boy from Philly... Heading to the Jeff Beck show tomorrow night...after not having seen him since the '80s, this'll be the 2nd time I've seen him in 7 months. Been away, so if I owe anybody anything (tape, response, etc.) please let me know. P-Frank ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 20:22:41 -0700 From: "Frank Lauria" Subject: gg: NoGG: Jellyfish Forgot to mention that I picked up two Jellyfish/"Bellybutton" CDs the other day; anybody need one? P-Frank ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 20:49:33 -0400 From: "David and Stacey Shur" Subject: gg: Fish Rising > chiefs18@hotmail.com writes: > << Also, should I buy Steve Hillage's "Fish Rising? Fish Rising is my favorite Hillage album. Quirky, with great melodies, solos, and the usual fishy stuff. Great keyboards by Dave Stewart as ell! -David Eric ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 21:23:36 -0400 From: Tatsurou Ueda Subject: gg: Manticore paper cover reissue Hi all. Just a quick note to let you all know that I'm wrapping up the consolidated purchase offer for the Manticore (Banco/PFM/Pete Sinfield/Stray Dog) and Atomic Rooster/Uriah Heap CD reissues. Also want to let you know some of the EL&P paper-jacket reissues are still available. If interested, I'll accept order request untill 10:00am 8/27(EST USA). Tatsurou ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 03:45:36 +0200 From: casglatze@t-online.de (casglatze) Subject: gg: Free Hand and CD review Hi, everyone, two quick things: 1) the "mispress" Free Hand CD: I know that this topic has been dealt with before, but as I only got my copy today, let me add a few thoughts to the discussion. I think that this is by no means a totally different master tape, but simply a different (or early and then rejected) mix. The only real difference I was able to discover was the partially missing guitar on Free Hand. Does anybody have the DEFINITVE story on the history? I think that what made many people talk about a different master was the fact that the sound is different. And this is where I disagree with MANY members of the list who said that the "mispress" was absolutely inferior in sound. I have to say that it is absolutely superior to the regular One Way release (I'm not taking into account other Free Hand releases, as everybody works differently with the tapes). The regular release is muddy, while the "mispress" sounds as crisp as anything. I much prefer it to the regular One Way release. Discuss! 2) I found another Gentle Giant review in the 9/99 issue of "Record Collector" magazine from Britain which I want to share with the list. Here goes... Gentle Giant Live - Playing The Fool/Civilian BGO CD 435 (78:12) This two-on-one CD features remastered albums by the slightly barking progmeisters, led by Ray Shulman and guitar wizard Gary Green. A superb 20-page booklet details the high-jinks behind the Giants on the road in the mid-70s, and the recording of their last studio album from 1980. "Just The Same" showcases all the syncopated Zappa-esque wah-wah and flutey keys that were par for the Giant course, before "Proclamation" brings in the crazy Colosseum II-style jazz-fusion and mandolin madness. Medieval pipe textures, florid saxophone and harpsichord doodles break through before "Funny Ways" lives up to its billing with xylophonic pomp. Daft on paper, granted, but it's still oddly gripping, especially when hints of hybrid Yes/Genesis sneak in, only to be beaten into retreat by the tattoo drums of "So Sincere". Other numbers are more mainstream, but then that's not what GG were about. This could explain their demise on entering the more accessible world or AOR for "Civilian". There are spacey keyboards to complement raging drums on "Convenience", and "Shadows On The Street" is heavenly. But other pieces tune into Journey/Kansas frequencies, while "Underground" could be unborn Dream Theater. "I Am A Camera" bolts along with Squire/White chirpiness, although quirky moments appear throughout, as usual. If you haven't indulged yourself before, this could be a suitable primer to the sonically flat-earth world of Gentle Giant. Tim Jones ...okay, and why not pass on the Fixx review I found in the same issue. At first, I didn't want to post it, as it doesn't say anything at all. But here's for all Fixx completists... 1980s pop-rockers The Fixx have come back with their first studio album in years. "Elemental", cleverly packaged by SPV as a triple-album set, the remaining sides being the "1011 Woodland" live collection. The 27 songs include hits like "Stand Or Fall" and "Red Skies", sitting alongside the new, funkier sounds of Cy Curnin and company. Two luscious booklets give the lowdown on the quartet's latest activities. See, I told you... And two more quick notes: As I started the "Q" debate (I love the mag), let me say that one shouldn't take the mag too seriously all the time. However, I think it is very wittily written and does indeed offer lots of articles and columns that other mags around the world copy. Q, as well as Mojo, Ice and RC, are desert-island mags for me. If anyone on the list goes to see Billy Connolly at the former London Hammersmith Odeon (whatever it's called now) on October 30, why don't you get in touch with me, as I'll be there. Write. Carsten the Krautmeister ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 19:43:43 -0700 From: William Tindall Subject: gg: Skunk Baxter... Jeff "The Smelly One" Baxter running for office makes me wonder mightily if I'm awake or not. His platform has got to be an actual pair of platforms. His slogan just has to be "Damn straight I inhaled! What do I look like, an idiot??" He was a fine guitarist, but does he have a clue? I dunno, I'll give him a chance. What the hey. Votes for sale! Bill T ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 23:12:31 -0400 From: "dr" Subject: Re: gg: In A Quebecois Glass House De : Michael Eisenberg >Hi all, > >I'm just curious what you consider a "respectable" number is...I've had some >shows in Chicago that I though were attended by a respectable audience. Sure, >we aren't talking the 70's here where they used to fill up amphithearters but >if I get anything over 75 and the band sells a bunch of cd's and is happy by a >very enthusiatic 75...then I certainly consider that "respectable". > >Michael Eisenberg > >-- >Outré Music >Music Beyond Boundaries Sympathetically LOL ! Well, my experience as a prog musician taught me that 75 is indeed quite satisfying !! I often played with Moriodor for less than 25 people... But we had a prog festival here in QC (featuring the Flower Kings) a couple of years ago and it attracted close to 500 people every night. I think we can call that a triumph ! DR ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 20:34:34 -0700 (PDT) From: JohnEric Subject: Re: gg: Pretentious Apparently, Scott purchased the "Pretentious" album. He knows the cover art. I wrote: > >Subject: gg: Pretentious . . . the lot of you! He replied: > > Let me adjust this safety pin in my nose here. HMmmNn. There we go. I wrote: > >I now believe that the real prog fan ENJOYS and is thrilled by > pretension ("Gone" can be that way). And Scott said: > > We just like to sit bolt upright in that straight-backed chair, button > that top button, and listen to that relentless and impenetrable sound of > difficult music. I'm so glad you share my view. Yes, bolt upright, one eyebrow raised, top button buttoned, relaxed -- though soft -- tummy muscles, an ever ready smile of bliss waiting to manifest itself, and, of course, a cup of coffee. Comfortably pretentious and suitably perked. JEE I enjoyed the following ~~~~~~~~~ > >>How old were you and what year was it when you 1st heard/bought GG? > > >I was 14 and it was about 8 months ago :) Scott: > > a precocious, pretentious girl! We're so proud. ;) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 23:33:16 -0400 From: Tomas Subject: Re: gg: In A Quebecois Glass House At 11:12 PM 8/27/1999 -0400, dr wrote: >Sympathetically LOL ! Well, my experience as a prog musician taught me that >75 is indeed quite satisfying !! A number of years ago I heard about this band from Syracuse, NY - some of you may know who I'm talking about - called Cold Sweat. They were playing in the town I was living in at the time, in a dump called Mothers. I heard they were a great prog band, so I went down to see them (not being one to frequent the local bars, unless I was playing). They were fabulous! They started their set with a blistering "Heart of the Sunrise", and didn't look back. Odd thing was, I was one of about five people in the "audience" the whole night (the place could have fit 50). Between sets I struck up conversations with everyone in the band (except the drummer, who was a bit standoffish). They even dedicated a song to me! Which was no big deal, since by that time the tarbender and I were about the only ones there! But, they didn't slack off. It was like a "Best of Prog" night: Yes, Gentle Giant (yes!), Genesis, Tull, ELP: just for me. My head buzzed for weeks. Not a respectable crowd for them (they never came back), but - I must say - a very enthusiastic one! *************************************************************************** * Tomas * "Tolerance is the virtue of the man * * West Chazy, NY USA * without convictions." - GK Chesterton * * tomas@slic.com * * *************************************************************************** * Howie Web: http://www.howies.org/ * *************************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 22:42:28 +0000 From: Diana Green Subject: Re: gg: DELIVERY - "Fool's Meeting" / Steve Hillage's "Fish Rising" hail; re: Bob Angilly wrote: > If you didn't like "L" I'm afraid that's about as good as the Hillage solo > albums get. Fish Rising has some nice guitar work but Hillage was still too > much in Daevid Allen's shadow to develop much as a songwriter. Hillage's later > work in System 7 is much better despite being in league with the evil forces of > Thumpo. Don't know anything about the system 7 stuff, but I have 2 solo albums that I bought as a set, one titled And Not Or, and the other titled For To Next. One cover was the reverse of the other, so my sense is that they were intended as a set. the music is pure instrumental, and while I haven't listened to it for a long time, I remember being much more impressed than I was with L, which I really enjoyed. still, dg ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 22:48:31 +0000 From: Diana Green Subject: Re: gg: Flecktones hail; re: SSell71096@aol.com wrote: > hail gigantes, > lurkin' dave here. > do you guys have recommendations for exploring the Flecktones - what to check > out and what to avoid? Haven't heard all of their catalog, but the ones I really like are the solo Tales From the Acoustic Planet, UFO Tofu and Three flew Over the Cuckoo's nest. Sidebar: Fleck is coming to a really lovely venue, the State theatre, in a couple weeks. Hope I have the money to go! still, dg ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 18:44:18 +1200 From: "Keri Ford" Subject: gg: Pretentious Yes/GG JohnEric Giant, Tull, Focus, Ekseption, Renaissance, , etc., most people to say >things like "outrageous, outlandish, and pretentious". I now believe that >the real prog fan ENJOYS and is thrilled by pretension ("Gone" can be that >way). So that's it then ... be ye overjoyed by pretension! Remember, GG >released a double LP CALLED "Pretentious", which followed on the heals of >"Giant Steps" LOL. i think you're onto something here. However, the argument looks a bit different if you consider Imagination and Pretention to be interchangeable terms. To Imagine is to pretend, imagination is the aspect of pretense when it is gets good press and imagination is pretense when it is gets bad press. But really they're the same. So the music of Tull, GG. Yes is imaginative and it wants to be as imaginative as possible. This is what i look for in any art, I don't care about tastefullness, I want over the top extreme pretension. I also think that the idea of imagination being an escape from reality is wrong, but that to fully explore the imagination is to get to the heart of what it is to be human. Keri ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 03:34:46 -0400 (EDT) From: mammienun@webtv.net Subject: Re: gg: In A Quebecois Glass House My group 'Slick Woody' had 65 at the door tonight. The only prog we play is between sets! I just love forcing GG on unsuspecting Metallica fans! Later, Ez ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 07:53:45 +0200 From: "Jorunn Nome & Bert Vijn" Subject: gg: Re: Re: GG <-> Yes Ant was did wroting: > As an > engineer, I strive for excellence too, sometimes I might achieve it, that's > not for me to say. I have to be away from my family for work, I have to work > long and unsocial hours but wouldn't it be odd if me and hundreds of other > hard working professionals got fame, adulation and riches for what we did > professionally during a 10 year period and were able to retire at 35 or go > on to earn more money in a career we love? Thanks for reminding me why I dig this list! v-b ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 09:47:54 +0200 From: "Jorunn Nome & Bert Vijn" Subject: Re: gg: Gier goes to GorGG Ant spoked: > I vaguely remember something about Geir's hand over at the beginning but I > also remember that Malcolm did a poll of the people he collected from the > newsgroups he trawled, myself included, that would decide what to call the > list. Various GG song names were touted and On Reflection won the vote. Geir > was on the list that I was on and that list was started by Malcolm. It must > have been a coincidence that they both had the same name. Or maybe all of the members on the "old" list voted for O-R and outnumbered you newbies! ;^) The details should be filled out by Geir and Malcolm -- if necessary at all. They both deserve the honour they can get, I'm sure. v-b ------------------------------ End of on-reflection-digest V1 #1837 ************************************