Not Appointed To Wrath
Could all of us Christians who will be in the tribulation (Revelation 6:11, 7:14, 9:4, 12:17, 13:7-10, 14:12-13, 15:2, 16:15, 18:4, 20:4) still not be appointed to God's wrath (1 Thessalonians 5:9) because during the tribulation nobody in heaven says God's wrath "is come" until near the end of the tribulation, after the 7th trumpet (Revelation 11:15, 18), in the 7 vials of God's wrath (Revelation 15:1; Revelation 16), and none of the 7 vials are poured out on those of us who have obtained salvation? I believe we are even blessed at the 6th vial (Revelation 16:15), that we might endure to the 1,335th day after the abomination of desolation (Daniel 12:11-12), which is the day I believe Jesus will come back (Revelation 19).
I believe it's important to make this distinction because I expect that many people -- including many Christians -- are going to be blaming Jesus for causing all of their suffering and all of the suffering of their little ones in the tribulation, when in reality it will be Satan, fallen angels, evil men, and natural disasters that will be causing it. I expect that Satan is going to try to use this suffering to turn all of mankind -- including all of us Christians -- totally against Jesus, to get us to believe that Jesus is really a cruel and unjust tyrant who only wants us and our little ones to suffer and be tortured, while Satan is the one trying to help us. We need to be able to say, no, this suffering is not from Jesus, but from evil and natural sources, just as we Christians have always had to suffer in wars, famines, plagues, persecutions, and natural disasters throughout history, from the beginning of the church down until this day.
In the pre-trib view, will we Christians who will be in the tribulation (Revelation 6:11, 7:14, 9:4, 12:17, 13:7-10, 14:12-13, 15:2, 16:15, 18:4, 20:4) all be appointed to wrath? Aren't being appointed to wrath and obtaining salvation mutually exclusive, "for God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ" (1 Thessalonians 5:9)?
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Like Noah & Lot
Note that just as God didn't have to rapture Noah or Lot into heaven to keep them from his wrath, so he won't have to rapture us into heaven to keep us from his wrath.
Noah was commanded to make extensive preparations on the earth in order to avoid God's wrath; he had to build a gigantic ark 450 feet long, 75 feet wide, and 4 1/2 stories high (Genesis 6:15), and he had to store up enough food to keep himself, 7 others in his family (Genesis 7:7), and every kind of animal alive in the ark (Genesis 6:19) for the 12 months and 10 days they would all remain in the ark (Genesis 7:11, 8:13-17) and until they could grow more food on the destroyed earth after the flood.
And Lot was greatly affected by the judgment on Sodom: he had to flee immediately and leave behind everything he owned; he even lost his wife; and he went to go live in a cave (Genesis 19:30).
I believe Isaiah 26:20-21 could be a command to those of us Christians still alive on the earth right before the 7 vials of God's wrath are poured out (Revelation 16). The 7 vials aren't directed at us Christians, so that our and our families' entering our "chambers" before the 7 vials and "shutting the doors" about us (Isaiah 26:20-21) could protect us in a way like Noah and his family's entering the ark before the flood and the "shutting" of "the door of the ark" protected them (Genesis 6:16, 7:16).
Note that we Christians can still be on the earth during the 7 vials of God's wrath (Revelation 16) without being appointed to wrath (1 Thessalonians 5:9) because the 7 vials aren't directed at us Christians. The 1st vial brings a sore only "upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image" (Revelation 16:2), and not upon us Christians. The 2nd vial kills only those creatures living "in the sea" (Revelation 16:3), and not us Christians. The 3rd vial turns to blood only "the rivers and fountains of waters" (Revelation 16:4), and not any stored water of us Christians. In the 4th vial it says only that "men were scorched with great heat" (Revelation 16:9), and not that any of us Christians sheltered from the sun's heat in our "chambers" (Isaiah 26:20) were scorched. I believe that the 5th vial will bring darkness and pain only upon the unbelievers in the kingdom of the beast (Revelation 16:10), and not upon us Christians who will have light sources in our chambers, just as the darkness brought upon the kingdom of Egypt did not come upon God's people who "had light in their dwellings" (Exodus 10:22-23). The 6th vial affects only the Euphrates river (Revelation 16:12), and not us Christians, and at the 6th vial Jesus addresses us Christians; he still hasn't yet "come as a thief" (Revelation 16:15). In the 7th vial, I believe that if the armies of unbelievers gathered at Armageddon can survive the earthquake and hailstones of the 7th vial in order for Jesus to slay them with the sword of his mouth (Revelation 19:19-21), and if there can be unbelievers "left" alive all around the world in bed and working in the field and grinding at the mill (Luke 17:34-36), then we Christians will survive the earthquake and hailstones as well.
I don't believe that the vials will begin until near the end of the tribulation. From the time he commits the abomination of desolation (Matthew 24:15; Daniel 11:31, 36), I believe the Antichrist is given 1,260 days to rule and persecute believers (compare Revelation 13:5), after which I believe vials 1-5 (Revelation 16) will be poured out on his kingdom over a period of 30 days, during which time we don't see him persecuting believers. On day 1,290 (Daniel 12:11), I believe the 6th vial will be poured out preparing the way of the kings of the east (Revelation 16:12). It may then take about 45 days for the Antichrist and all the kings of the earth to gather all of their armies to Armageddon (Revelation 16:14). I believe Daniel 12:12 and Revelation 16:15 are the same blessing, so that we must wait until the 1,335th day for Christ to return to us, when he will destroy the Antichrist (2 Thessalonians 2:8).
Note that Revelation 7:16 doesn�t say or require that the great multitude are victims of the 4th vial any more than Jonah was a victim of the 4th vial (Jonah 4:8) or the one speaking in Song of Solomon 1:6 was a victim of the 4th vial.
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Are The Seals & Trumpets God's Wrath?
Note that all it says is that Jesus "opens" the seals (Revelation 6:1). Does this require that he is the one behind them or that he is at that point allowing Satan, fallen angels, evil men, and natural disasters to bring them about? (Did Pandora bring about all the suffering that came from the box she opened?)
Note that it doesn't say the angels who are given the trumpets perform the harmful events which follow their "sounding" of the trumpets (Revelation 8:7), and nothing says or requires that the events which follow are God's wrath. The angels could simply be announcing the events.
Note that in Revelation 6:1, 3, 5, 7 the four beasts could be saying "Come and see" to the Apostle John, for in Revelation 6:2 he says "and I saw" immediately after the first beast says "Come and see."
Regarding all of us Christians who will be in the tribulation (Revelation 6:11, 7:14, 9:4, 12:17, 13:7-10, 14:12-13, 15:2, 16:15, 18:4, 20:4), could it be as complex as the case with Job, where we know everything against him came directly from Satan, yet God still allowed everything, circumscribed everything that happened, yet nothing that happened was in any way God's wrath against Job?
Note that Satan can create natural disasters like great windstorms (Job 1:19) and he can even cast "stars" down (Revelation 12:4), and he will at one point in the tribulation have great wrath (Revelation 12:12). In Job 1:16 they think "the fire of God is fallen from heaven, and hath burned up the sheep, and the servants, and consumed them" when really it was from Satan; at a certain time God allowed Satan to cause a consuming fire to fall, and not because God was angry with Job in any way.
I believe that even though the "great wonder" of calling fire down from the sky that the false prophet will perform (Revelation 13:13) will be as literal an event as the literal fire from Satan that literally burned up Job's servants and sheep (Job 1:16), it could still at the same time also be considered to be a "lying wonder" insofar as it will be used to support the lie that the Antichrist is God.
If Satan is allowed by God to cause harm, why must it necessarily be God's wrath? Did the church of Smyrna suffer God's wrath (Revelation 2:10)? Did Job? Based on what scripture do some believe that Satan, fallen angels, evil men, and natural disasters can be allowed by God to harm the church in the past and present without it being God's wrath, but that Satan, fallen angels, evil men, and natural disasters can't be allowed to harm the church in the tribulation (Revelation 6:11, 7:14, 9:4, 12:17, 13:7-10, 14:12-13, 15:2, 16:15, 18:4, 20:4) without it being God's wrath?
Did God's knowing what he was releasing against Job require that anything he released against him was his wrath? Does it say that God allows us Christians in the tribulation to be killed because he has wrath against us?
Note that God specifically said that in the flood he would be the one destroying the wicked and the earth: "I will destroy them with the earth" (Genesis 6:13), just as it specifically says that the 7 vials are his wrath (Revelation 15:1). But with the seals and trumpets we see neither the word wrath nor God stating that they are destruction from him.
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Is The Entire Tribulation God's "Judgment"?
Does Revelation say the seals and trumpets of the tribulation are "judgments"? At the 5th seal, aren't the martyrs in heaven asking for God to begin his judgment on the earth (Revelation 6:10) because he hasn't yet? Will the remaining number of their "fellowservants and brethren" that must be martyred just as they were (Revelation 6:11) be killed by God's judgment? Isn't it possible that God's judgment may not begin until the 7 vials of wrath at the end of the tribulation (Revelation 15:4, Revelation 16:7), and that none of them will be directed at us Christians?
Could all of us Christians who will be in the tribulation (Revelation 6:11, 7:14, 9:4, 12:17, 13:7-10, 14:12-13, 15:2, 16:15, 18:4, 20:4) go through its wars, famines, plagues, persecutions, martyrdoms, and natural disasters, just as we Christians have always suffered, and not because God was bringing judgment against us?
Note that in asking for judgment for their blood the martyrs in Revelation 6:10 make no reference to the 2nd coming or to "true" judgment; I believe God's judgment for their blood may not begin until the vials at the end of the tribulation -- see especially Revelation 16:5-6 -- and none of the vials are directed at us Christians.
Some say we would be under God's judgment in the 1st seal because they say that's when the Antichrist is released. But Christians have always suffered and died under evil rulers, and not because God was bringing judgment against them. The church's dying under the Antichrist (Revelation 14:12-13, 20:4) will be no different than the church's dying under the Roman emperors who persecuted it so cruelly.
Some say we would be under God's judgment in the 2nd seal because war is released. But Christians have always suffered and died in war, and not because God was bringing judgment against them.
Does "power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another" (Revelation 6:4) require that everyone on the earth will kill everyone else, so that not a single person will be left? If it doesn't refer to everyone, then must it refer to Christians who will be alive at that time? How should we understand Revelation 6:4 in the light of Revelation 6:9-11?
Some say we would be under God's judgment in the 3rd seal because famine is released. But Christians have always suffered and died in famine, and not because God was bringing judgment against them.
Some say we would be under God's judgment in the 4th seal because death is released. But Christians have always died, and not because God was bringing judgment against them.
Does "Death, and Hell followed with him" (Revelation 6:8) require that all who die in the 4th seal will go into hell? How should we understand the verses which immediately follow Revelation 6:8? "I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled" (Revelation 6:9-11).
I believe Ezekiel 14:21-22 refers to what happened to Jerusalem in 586 B.C., and to the remnant that was brought forth to join Ezekiel in the Babylonian Captivity.
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The First Four Trumpets - One-Third
Note that God doesn't command the hurting of the earth and the sea and the trees by the four angels (Revelation 7:2-3), even though he allows it in the first four trumpets (Revelation 8:7-12). And note that the angels allowed by God to cause the hurting of the earth could be fallen angels, for they are allowed to cause the hurting of only one-third of the earth, just as Satan was allowed to cause the fall of only one-third of the angels (Revelation 12:4).
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The 5th Trumpet - Torment From Locusts
I believe it's possible that "it was commanded" the locusts by God to torment "only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads" (Revelation 9:4) in the same way that God controlled exactly what Satan could do during his tormenting of Job: "The LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life" (Job 2:6); God could be saying "Behold, all men can be tormented; but the sealed men." Note again that none of the suffering that God allowed Satan to bring upon Job was in any way God's wrath against Job.
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The 6th Trumpet - Horsemen
Note that the plagues of the 6th trumpet (Revelation 9:20) are the work of the army of the fallen angels who were "bound" in the Euphrates (Revelation 9:14-16).
Note that the heavenly command to an unfallen angel to loose the fallen angels in the 6th trumpet (Revelation 9:14) in no way requires that the subsequent actions of the fallen angels are the wrath of God, just as God's loosing Satan against Job in no way required that the subsequent actions of Satan were the wrath of God against Job.
Note that the statement: "the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not" (Revelation 9:20) doesn't require that there won't be some believers who will survive the plagues of the 6th trumpet who will have already repented, just as the statement that the False Prophet "deceiveth them that dwell on the earth" (Revelation 13:14) during the reign of the Antichrist doesn't require that there won't be many of us believers who will dwell on the earth during that time who won't be deceived (Revelation 13:7-10, 14:12-13, 15:2, 20:4).
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Woe, Woe, Woe
Note that the "woe, woe, woe" of Revelation 8:13 doesn't require that the last 3 trumpets be God's wrath any more than the "woe" of Revelation 12:12 requires that Satan's wrath be God's wrath.
I believe the pregnant and nursing mothers to whom the woe is addressed in Mark 13:17 are part of all the Spirit-filled believers Jesus is addressing in Mark 13:11-21.
Woe includes even the obedient believers inhabiting the earth in the tribulation: "Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time... And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ" (Revelation 12:12, 17).
Note that in both passages the woe is to believing women and their offspring, not unbelieving sinners.
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"In Them Is Filled Up The Wrath Of God" - Revelation 15:1
Note that no one in heaven calls any of the seals or trumpets God's wrath. I believe it's possible that any wrath supported by God prior to the vials could be that of the plagues brought on by the two witnesses (Revelation 11:6), which plagues aren't shown as being directed at us Christians in any way.
Note that it says God's wrath (orge) will subsequently be at the 2nd coming (Revelation 19:15), and in the lake of fire forever (Revelation 14:10-11).
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"The Seven Last Plagues" - Revelation 15:1
I believe the only prior "plagues" (plege) from God himself were those caused by the two witnesses (Revelation 11:6), which plagues we don't see being directed at us Christians in any way.
Note that the only seal or trumpet where "plagues" (plege) is mentioned is the 6th trumpet (Revelation 9:20), and nothing says or requires that the 6th trumpet be God's wrath, for it is the work of the army of the fallen angels who were "bound" in the Euphrates (Revelation 9:14-16).
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"Thy Wrath Is Come" - Revelation 11:18
Note that Revelation 11:18 says "thy wrath is come," which is in the aorist tense, not the past tense, for I believe it means that after the 7th trumpet has sounded (Revelation 11:15) will be the time when the 7 vials of God's wrath (Revelation 16) is come.
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But Won't We Be Affected?
Even if we are affected by something in the tribulation unto death -- will that be so bad? "For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain" (Philippians 1:21). Won't it be a blessing to escape all the rest of the tribulation? "Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours" (Revelation 14:13).
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Different Levels Of God's Wrath
Note that the word "wrath" in 1 Thessalonians 5:9 is the Greek word orge, which is used in the NT to refer to the entire range of the levels of God's wrath, from a single angry look by Jesus: "He had looked round about on them with anger (orge)" (Mark 3:5), to the eternal horror of the lake of fire: "The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation (orge); and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever" (Revelation 14:10-11). If we who have obtained salvation do wrong, I believe Jesus can still be angry with us, for "As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten" (Revelation 3:19), but such chastisement doesn't mean we are appointed to the wrath of the lake of fire (Revelation 14:10), to which only those who will not obtain salvation are appointed (1 Thessalonians 5:9, John 3:36).
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Will God Destroy The Righteous With The Wicked?
"Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked?" (Genesis 18:23).
In the pre-trib view, will God "destroy" us Christians who will be in the tribulation who have "the faith of Jesus" (Revelation 14:12) and who are "in the Lord" (Revelation 14:13)?
But when will this verse be fulfilled?
"I will cut off from thee the righteous and the wicked" (Ezekiel 21:4).
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Not Appointed To Satan's Wrath?
1 Thessalonians 5:9 isn't referring to the wrath of Satan, but to the wrath of God, for those of us who have obtained salvation can be appointed to the wrath of Satan:
"And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ" (Revelation 12:17).
"Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life" (Revelation 2:10).
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Avoiding Blasphemy
In the NT it says that some of the scribes blasphemed the Holy Spirit (the only sin that cannot be forgiven) by claiming that Jesus was casting out devils by the power of Satan (Mark 3:22-30). Therefore we must be very careful not to ascribe any work of God to Satan, or vice versa. Because it doesn't say whether the seals and trumpets of the tribulation are the work of God or Satan, I fear saying that any of the seals or trumpets are totally from God or totally from the devil. If any of the seals or trumpets are not God's wrath, but Satan's, wouldn't it be blasphemous to ascribe them to God?
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The Days Of Vengeance And Wrath
Does the Bible say or require that "the days of vengeance" and "wrath upon this people" when the armies come and surround Jerusalem to destroy it (Luke 21:20-24) will be God's wrath against those who are already believers?
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Weapons Of Mass Destruction?
Regarding weapons of mass destruction (WMD), note that it doesn't say that the vials of God's wrath (Revelation 16) will include chemical, biological, or nuclear weapons. However, I believe that many of us Christians may die due to the WMD which may possibly be the "great sword" of the war of the second seal (Revelation 6:4) which, with its aftermath of famine (Revelation 6:5-6), will kill one-fourth of the earth (Revelation 6:8).
WMD may also be described in the "fire and smoke and brimstone" of the warfare of the sixth trumpet which will kill one-third of mankind (Revelation 9:18). Note that if the war of the second seal and its aftermath kills one-fourth of the earth (Revelation 6:4-8) and the war of the sixth trumpet subsequently kills one-third of the survivors, this would mean that both wars together will kill one-half of mankind. I don't believe that we Christians will be protected from these wars any more than we have been protected from any other wars from the beginning of the church down until this day.
But if we Christians die in these wars of the seals and trumpets, it will be no different than our dying in wars past; it won't mean that we've been appointed to God's wrath (1 Thessalonians 5:9), because during the tribulation nobody in heaven says God's wrath "is come" until near the end of the tribulation, after the 7th trumpet (Revelation 11:15, 18), in the 7 vials of God's wrath (Revelation 15:1; Revelation 16), and none of the 7 vials are poured out on those of us who have obtained salvation.