Okay so dude, I've been meaning to write a treatise on the nature of selfishness, and some other things too...but instead I deliver unto you a bastardly mix of an IM conversation and an email between me, and the sweetest, prettiest, and richest girl you'll ever know someone who knows her (2?!$*!) Do with this what you wish, if it should end up in some form or another on astrotrain, even if you just copy and paste this email, then that would be tight. p.s. I seriously do my best thinking when I write emails on no sleep.

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GABRIELLE: no.. not that i can think of.. i wish i wasn't so selfish sometimes.. but i think if i was any less selfish i would get walked all over.. but whatever

ME:  interesting. i think people have a lot of misconceptions about selfishness. i think pure selfishness can be a virtue

GABRIELLE:  i don't like selfishness

ME:  it may not make sense to you, but let me explain my point of view.

ME:  A good example of the virtues of selfishness can be seen in economics. Up until around the 18th century the world's economic systems had been based on promoting the good of the group as opposed to any one person's "selfish needs" (such as how hunter gatherer tribes share food, etc)

ME:  after that point, capitalism became a driving force. the main ideal behind capitalism is personal gain, for one's individual "selfish" needs

ME:  if you look at the improvements in science, quality of life, overall education level, etc... that have taken placeover the last 300 something years it becomes clear that people who act in their own self interest can do much more to promote the well being of the group than a bunch of people grovveling attempting to satisfy one another's expected needs

ME:  i have to go eat, i'll be back...i hope that makes at least a little sense

GABRIELLE:  umm ok..

ME:  gabrielle  did that make sense (not that you hve to agree obviously)

GABRIELLE:  well i felt like i was getting like a history lesson or something.. so yeah it made sense.. but i don't really see your point

ME:  oh okay, well i will make my point in a less academic way when iget back from eating if you're stil awake

GABRIELLE: ok

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hey there sweet thang,
since you weren't online I decided to try to clear up what I meant about selfishness, so as to keep you from thinking I'm an amoral ogre. Selfishness is generally thought of as being a focus on one's own desires and needs over those of others, and selflessness is it's opposite. However if you look at the nature of the word selflessness (the quality of being without a self) it's obvious that the traditional view of selfishness is not opposite of that, since the opposite of not having a self would be to have a self. So, it would seem that, rather than looking at selfishness as being a focus on one's needs (etc) over those of others, selfishness should be viewed as the focus on one's needs and desires without even placing those of other's in the same equation. I think the virtue of selfishness is always having what you want, think, and need being the motivation for your actions, conversely the pitfalls of the supposed ideal of selflessness lie in the fact that all of the motivation for your actions comes from outside sources such as other people, or society in general.

okay, I said I'd be LESS academic about it this time...hmmm....I cook breakfast for my parents nearly every morning. I do this because I like to cook, I also like my parents and enjoy being a useful member of my household. They get up hours after I do, so they are never there to see me cook for them, they rarely thank me, and we almost never speak of it except for when they have menu suggestions for me. Still, I'm just as happy as I would be if they'd been thanking me profusely every night. That's because I don't do it for them, or for their thank you's, I do it for my own happiness/satisfaction, whatever.

I'm assuming that you sang at the cancer relay and donated what I don't doubt was a generous amount of money because you thought it would help, and because you wanted to help, not because you wanted people to notice you helping and think that you're a wonderful person. You mentioned that they had a ceremony to thank you for your donation. I feel confident that you would have gotten just as much satisfaction out of making your donation with or without people making a big deal about it. If that is the case you were being selfish. You didn't need the other people to let you know what a good thing you did, and you weren't looking for their approval. However, if that is not the case, if you expected people to thank you and make a big fuss then you were depending on others to get your satisfaction -- that would be being selfless.

A selfless person depends on others. A selfish person doesn't need anyone else. Not to say that someone can't be selfish and like the company of others, or care about their welfare, just that they wouldn't put someone else's welfare into the same picture as their's. If my main goal in cooking my parent's breakfast was to make THEM happy, and they seemed indifferent to it/ took it for granted, then I would not have gotten what I wanted, since I was concerned with their happiness and they weren't showing it to me via their gratitude. The thing is that my parents could be VERY happy with the breakfasts but not feel the need t express it. Also they could thank me like beggars and be lying, but I wouldn't know that. So, in the situation where i depend on my parents for my happiness, I may or may not get it, and I can NEVER be sure if I'm actually achieving my goals since I can only really guess at what others really feel.

I geuss that's another reason that being selfish is good. It's the only really logical thing to do. One can never be sure of what other's really want, so attempting to make them happy is a foolish excercise. You can be sure of  what you want, and forsaking that for the perceived ideas of another's wants and needs is a pretty shakey idea. People are crazy, people are liars, many people only want what TV, magazines, and eers tell them to want. It just doesn't make sense to hand one's life over to the mob in the name of some ideal that other people have preached -- after all THOSE people could have been crazy. But we've already talked about all that.

Anyway, I hope that makes sense enough now. Take care. Have fun in Rome if you're still there, if not, have fun in Greece, or whatever other part of this wonderful world you happen to be gracing with your presence.

Je t'embrasse,
david