How on earth are we suppose to talk to teenagers about sex?
I am, for the first time in my youth ministry life, totally at a loss.
When I was at Cornerstone (actually in the middle of my conversation with
Corrie about the suburbs) I was “interviewed” by this amazingly bizarre
performance artist/ moral crusader called the Pink Nun. The Pink Nun’s whole
gig is about radical abstinence and she is a button pusher let me tell you.
(check out her page at www.pinknun.com).
Anyway, the Nun, tape recorder and microphone in hand, asked me about my own
opinions on sex before marriage and then, when she found out I was a youth
minister, she asked what I would say to teenagers about staying abstinent before
marriage. Upon considering her questions I realized that I was totally at a
loss. Every response that came to me seemed so canned, so utterly unconvincing,
so completely inauthentic.
Now the Nun was happy to fill in the expected Evangelical Christian take on the
issue (it leaves you empty, it’s not safe, sex is best in marriage etc. etc.)
and I totally agree with this take but there’s something about it that is
troublingly unsatisfying.
So, I need help friends…
What do we say to folks? How do we have the “premarital sex conversation”
without sounding patronizing, self-righteous or like we’re reading the classic
evangelical script on the topic (this last one is the one that I’m most
concerned about).
Here are a few ideas and struggles I’ve got but I desperately need to talk
about this…
1.) How do I tell some one that having sex before marriage is damaging for them
and expect them to choose abstinence, when I constantly make decisions that are
damaging and not life giving to me, even though I know better. It’s like
knowledge that it’s “bad” just isn’t enough…at least not for me. I still
struggle. But we seem to think that if kids know better then they’ll stop
screwing around and I just don’t think it works. But if it does I’m open to
hear about it,
2.) My opinions about sex are very theological, so how do I have any
conversation with a non-Christian about it and not sound all weird? If you’re
not following Jesus why should I think that you’ll give a crap about what God
designed sex for? How do we have this conversation with non-Christian folks
whom I believe would have more life and joy in a abstinent lifestyle without
sounding, well, weird.
3.) It seems to me the way through this morass lies somewhere in addressing the
underlying consumerism that drives our cultures sexual ethic. If we are all
just sexual commodities to be consumed then there’s no reason to “wait for
marriage” but if there’s a way that waiting until marriage actually honors
another person and doesn’t treat them as a product…well, that seems to have
legs. But is that just a theologized opinion again and there fore unhelpful to
some folks?
So….
What are helpful ways to have this conversation with followers of Jesus and
those not yet following Him?
How do you “teach this to kids” in a Youth Ministry setting?
A penny for your thoughts my friends.
three cheers for rufus wainwright...
-corrie.
the "classic evangelical script on the topic" as i've experienced
has always been about fear and distance. if i were a kid who's never had sex
being told by the pink nun "it will leave you empty" i would ask
"how do you know what makes me feel empty?" a performance artist
wearing a hot pink habit with a fear-based dogma is just as much of a product
to consume as a t-shirt that says "i slept with your boyfriend last
night". she's saying, "come here, wear my button, sign my pledge
card, consume what i have to say that doesn't involve your feelings, your
fears, or your needs."
i don't know the answer, and i find just as much difficulty with your point 2
as you do, but it seems that at the most basic level kids need simply to be
known. my 'agenda' then becomes, well, them. if we can agree that
christian and non-christian kids alike have this basic desire to be known then
talking about anything, drugs, sex, how great their parents are, how shitty
their parents are, or the cure concert last night becomes a function of knowing
them.
this model is problematic for the classic evangelical script, though, because
it's not a script—it can’t be read from, it takes a great deal of time, we're
each limited in the amount of kids that we can know well and WORST it
requires us to be known in the process. this model begs the question: who is
the pink lady behind the habit and underneath the white make-up? it's terribly
ironic, but not at all surprising to me that a city like
i would suggest, then that the issue is not just (or even) about sex, or
teenagers but our own fear of intimacy--with ourselves, our spouses, our
friends, and the kid standing in line at rocketown wearing a shirt that says
"i'd rather be masturbating".
i wonder what the pink nun would say to him, because at least it doesn’t say,
“i’d rather be screwing”.
--Matt Grace
Carrie Graham said...
Can I take a stab at this one for homework in addition to the other issue
we discussed Thursday? Not because I'll have magical answers (like I usually
do, right?)...just for kicks... ;)
chuck roan said...
OK.. so this is my first time, so go easy. Interesting start off for this
topic. To add to the "empty" feeling. The analogy I would use to the
30 somethings is.. its like when you buy your first car. You fork over your
life savings, you wash it, you research it, you put your heart into it.. but
over time something changes. The paint isn't as shiny, there is a stain on the
seat, and then your neighbor just bought a new car and suddenly thats what you
want. My point is.. sex can be like this. You think you want it so bad.. then
suddenly once you have it, you aren't satisfied.. so either a) you want more
and more hoping it will get better. b) you spin into a guilt spiral that makes
you want to give in.
Sex is marketed to us every day as the best thing that could ever happen... it
represents "true love", etc. Heck porn is easier to get than beer or
cigarettes.. you don't have to leave the house for that. Gone are the days of
watching movies through scrambled signals.
I can't imagine what a kid must think to see how easy and accessible sex is..
The only hope to some how comunicate how amazing they would be to their future
spouse to say you are the first. To not have to worry about comparing their
spouse to previous conquests. And finally to not wake up the next morning with
the thoghts of either "thats it?" or "what the heck did i just
do!?!!?"
in defense of lisa [the lady behind the pink habit and the make-up],
the whole pink nun thing isn't supposed to be a "ministry." she's
just an artist who loves Jesus and purity and wants to use the amazingly
bizarre artistic gifts God has given her. i was thrilled that
i've been thinking about this question since that night at cornerstone too. i
agree with y'all that the script is obsolete, and i totally agree with mr.
grace that our biggest hurdle is our own fear of intimacy/transperancy.
"who is the pink lady behind the habit?" who is the youth leader with
the cool black glasses? it sucks to let people into our darkness, but the
leaders/friends whose stories made an impact on my life are the ones who chose
to be vulnerable with me, share their mistakes and lessons learned.
and i think non-christians WILL give a crap about how God designed sex. it's a
theologized opinion, but that doesn't mean we have to explain it using seminary
flashcards. i remember one conversation with my [non-christian] best friend in
high school, she talked about deciding whether she was going to have sex with
her boyfriend. she said two things that surprised me. she said something like,
"it seems like sex requires such a high level of trust with another person,
i don't think i would be able to trust someone enough to sleep with them,
unless they made some sort of lifelong commitment to me." and she said,
"i think once i have sex for the first time, i'm probably going to have
sex with every boyfriend after the first one. i'm not sure if i really want to
start my 'list' yet." i was surprised because there was Truth in her
words- i pretty much agreed with her. i don't remember how i responded, but i
could have used her comments to bridge the "weirdness" gap between
her worldview and mine by showing her what we have in common.
one last note: i think "waiting until you're married honors your future
spouse" definitely has legs and isn't totally a theologized opinion. but
here's a question- what do you say to someone who never wants to get married,
or a homosexual person who can't get married? how is an abstinant lifestyle
better for them? hmm...
-corrie.
chuck roan said...
perhaps the question back to the last question.. if you don't plan to get
married, then why enter into a physical relationship? Granted this may be a
little ivory tower type comment, but as Christians do we promote relationships
with no goal and only meet a "physical" need.. It was in college that
I heard the comment that I wouldn't date someone I wouldn't marry. While that
doesn't mean we have to "know" on the first date, but you do have a
feeling if this is someone you could spend a lot of time with. This is oppposed
to just finding someone one to "hook up with"
ali said...
charles ryan... you are my hero. say hello to your lovely wife for me. if i
ever make a pilgrimage back to
as for sex, dix... yes. i am too theological about everything too, but i don't
think it's all as crazy at it sounds. the best way you talk to people about sex
and marriage is the way you and kristin are and living your life together
within the community. seeing what committed and in love relationship looks like
is the best thing, i think.
and remember, these kids aren't dumb. i think most people involved sexually
before marriage - at least most of them who hang around us - know that it hurts
them. they know it is a bad choice... they just know they also want it, and
don't know how to make that choice. so i think it is about offering a real and
radical alternative where they can go, yeah, i want that...
and (to get theological) i get into the whole bridal theology relationship
thing, you know? which i think is redemptive in response to consumer culture. i
am on a thing right now about how if we can change our image of god it changes
our image of ourselves and others. so i get back into we are the bride waiting
for the beloved. and when my god-thinking is really affected by that, well,
everything is.
about how you teach kids about this... right now (bc of people i know who are
getting into trouble) i am of the opinion that the key is about being in each
other's lives... asking kids (or friends) what are you doing? why? when? and
being interested. i guess it's not the content that i think the kids are in
need of... it's the love and the investment.
unhelpful, i know. i miss you guys...
chuck roan said...
Ali.. WHATS UP>> I have moved, gotten married.. you guys totally need
to visit. I even have beds and bedrooms for all now.. I am TRUELY suburbia.. it
would drive DDK crazy!
Kinser.. I saw the Nature Boy at the Wal Mart.. I need to post the pic. (thats
Rick Flair for everyone else) but I digress...
I confess that I live in the world of home schooled Christians and the hardest
part for me is failing to bring up sex b/c we just assume its not a struggle.
Although in the subarbs, in a city FULL of evangelical churches.. pornography
is a HUGE problem.. this a digression, but even for kids from good schools and
parents. Thats one of the hardest things is how do you stop kids from saying no
when its so easy to find.
This is Thomas McKenzie
aka Darth Heretic
It interests me that the one thing Dixon says that gets the most comments is
about sex.
Beside that, and in response to Dixon's 3 Questions:
1) Are you asking how you can teach on Christian morality without being a
hypocrite? You can't. You just have to do it anyway, just like the rest of us.
And the reason that kids shouldn't have sex before marriage is not because it
will hurt them, or because it will give them a bad feeling, etc. The reason not
to do it is the same reason we shouldn't steal or kill or lie. Because its
against God's will for us. Its sin. That's it. Why is it sin? Well, we could
come up with some good reasons, but the non-emotionally-satisfying fact of the
matter is that our obediance comes first, then our understanding. No one every thought
their way into health. We just have to do it.
2) There is not a darn thing you can say to the non-Christian. There is no
reason to try to convince a non-Christian not to have crazy sex. Why? See
number one. They don't have a good reason not to do it, and if you are trying
to reason someone into morality you are a) a modernist and b) ignoring the Holy
Spirit. You can I can barely keep our pants on with the power of God, what
about the poor guy who's mind and heart are captive to evil? The thing to tell
the non Christian is that there is a God who loves them and who can redeem them
from their bondage. Anything more is nothing but speculative philosophy that
any one from any tradition can do.
3) If you are wed to speculative philosophy and trying to convince someone to
live a moral life, you could always try the whole "you're just being used
by the corporations, so keep your pants on to fight the Man" line. I don't
think it will work, but it was a bit of similar speculative philosophy that kept
the pre-Christian me off of drugs. (A guy told me that buying drugs contributed
to the economic bondage and gang violence I saw among the poor in the city, so
if I was going to boycott Exxon for the Valdez spill, I'd better boycott drugs
for all those drive-by shootings. It worked on me).
Thomas McKenzie
How do you define "sex"? Does "sex" include:
A) oral, vaginal, anal penetration?
B) solitary/mutual masturbation?
C) hugging/kissing/holding hands?
D) etc.
I think one of the problems regarding this issue is a definition of
"sex" and "sexual behaviors".
Dixon said...
Right...perhaps by only defining sex as intercourse we perpetuate a
"where's the line and when have I crossed it" approach to sex as
opposed to "how do I love God and love my neighbor".
Or maybe trying to break it down into what acts "officially"
constitute sex isn't a helpful approach either. I'm not sure...I need to chew
on it some more.
Thanks for the post.
DDK