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WEINGARTNER AND TOSCANINI -  A TIMED COMPARISON

[ Comparison ]  [Beethoven - 5 ]  [Brahms]  [Mendelssohn]  [Mozart]  [Wagner ]  [Weber]

A critique of every one of the recordings detailed here has not been attempted. Nor has the timing of individual matrices been undertaken since, in view of the frequent overlaps, this would have served no aesthetic purpose. Some indication of Weingartner's interpretative approach in general may, however, be gained by setting out the timings of complete works in his recorded repertoire. This the table below does, with the exception of certain works arbitrarily excluded as being of lesser importance. Possibly the results so obtained from his earlier recordings are none too reliable an indication of the character of his performances at that time in the concert hall. A few seem to be affected by the constraints of the side lengths, thus it may well be that the requirements of groove spacing in the early electric Beethoven 5th Symphony are responsible for producing a second movement which so much emphasises the con moto marking in comparison with his other versions of this movement, a tempo which, moreover, is inconsistent with his own metronome indication (quaver = 84)  And again, comments by contemporary observers of his performances sometimes throw light on the less successful recordings. Sir Adrian Boult has remarked that Weingartner gave an "electric performance" of the Symphonic fantastique with the BBC Symphony Orchestra in 1931, a description which, unfortunately, does not tally with the records made in 1925. Another writer maintained in 1926 that "however authoritative the conducting by a man like Weingartner of the 9th Symphony of Beethoven may be, the ineluctable fact remains that life is absent from (the 1926 recording) - Let me hasten to make it perfectly clear that I am not impugning the interpretation of Weingartner in a concert hall, but what I do assert is that he is not capable of transferring himself and his orchestra to a record". Finally, it is noteworthy that the filmed performance of the Freischutz Overture, made in conditions more nearly approaching those of a live performance, displays greater discipline, dynamism and spontaneity than the earlier Basle recording of 1928.

On the other hand, the recordings made in the 1930's may be more readily accepted as truly representative of Weingartner's approach at that time. By then groove spacing techniques were more sophisticated and, not only does the music seem in most instances to fit comfortably into the available space, but where necessary (for example in the scherzos of Beethoven's 3rd and 4th Symphonies) repeats are omitted to ensure this result. The presence of fillers on the final side of some symphonic recordings is a further indication that adequate groove space was available and generally, too, the Beethoven recordings do not depart far from Weingartner's own metronome indications.

Since Weingartner and Toscanim frequently used to be the subjects of comparison, timings have been included of Toscamni's recordings. Comparisons by means of such timings have some value in the case of two conductors both having a fundamentally "straight through" style in contrast, for example, to Furtwa'ngler or Mengelberg. They must, nevertheless, be treated with caution since apparent similarities sometimes disguise instances where Weingartner's tempo for an introductory passage is relatively fast while the rest of the movement is moderately paced. The first movement of Beethoven's 7th Symphony (1936 recordings) is one example; here the three second difference in timing disguises the fact that Weingartner takes almost a minute less for the introduction than Toscanini's, a reminder of his observation that this is usually played too slowly for its poco sostenuto marking  Conversely, apparent differences, for example in the scherzo of the same work, are sometimes occasioned by Weingartner's more relaxed treatment of the trio sections, although his basic tempo may be similar to or faster than Toscamni's.

Notwithstanding these reservations, it is obvious that the figures provide a corrective for those who believe that Toscanim invariably covered the ground more quickly than anyone else. They show quite clearly, for example, that contrary to general belief Toscanini was not the first conductor in modern times to take the second movement of the 7th Symphony at a true allegretto, that the two conductors' tempi for Beethoven's slow movements and scherzos were in general almost identical, and that in both Brahms and Wagner it was Toscanini who was in this respect - if in no other - the more temperate in approach.

The first column in the following table shows the composer and work, and succeeding columns the timings of Weingartner's recording(s) with dates and orchestra. The last column gives details of the Toscanini recording with the date of the version timed. Issue numbers of Toscanini's recordings are available in several reference works and, of course, current catalogues.

WEINGARTNER AND TOSCANINI -  A TIMED COMPARISON

[ Top]  [ Bach]  [Beethoven - 5 ]  [Brahms]  [Mendelssohn]  [Mozart]  [Wagner ]  [Weber]

Work

WEINGARTNER

 

TOSCANINI

  Year/Orch. Time Year/Orch. Time Year/Orch. Time   Year/Orch. Time  

BACH

                     
Suite No.3   1939/Paris 17:43           1947/NBC 15:05 *
                     

BEETHOVEN

  [ Top]  [ Bach]  [Brahms]  [Mendelssohn]  [Mozart]  [Wagner ]  [Weber]  
Concerto No.3 I 1939/Paris 15:26           1944/NBC 15:14  
II   8:27             8:06  
III   8:26             8:18  
    32:19             31:38  
Triple Concerto I 1937/WPO 17:15           1942/NBC 14:35  
II   5:09             3:34  
III   12:35             11:35  
    34:59             29:44  
Consecration of the House   1938/LPO 10:42           1947/NBC 9:28  
Egmont Overture   1937/WPO 8:19           1939/NBC 8:20  
Fidelio Overture   1938/LPO  5:51           1944/NBC 6:21  
Leonora No.2 Overture   1938/LSO 12:38           1939/NBC 13:04  
Prometheus Overture   1933/LPO 4:17 1936/WPO 4:19       1944/NBC 4:46  
Symphony No.1 I 1937/WPO 6:44           1937/BBC 6:34 *
II   6:10             6:32 *
III   3:20             3:05 *
IV   4:13             3.27 *
    20:27             19:38  
Symphony No.2 I 1938/LSO 9:38           1949/NBC 9:18  
II   10:02             9:58  
III   3:08              3:13  
IV   6:30             5:57  
    29:18             28:26  
Symphony No.3 I 1936/WPO 14:01           1949/NBC 13:55  
II   14:57             15:35  
III   4:04             4:08 *
IV   11:14             11:11  
    44:16             44:49  
Symphony No.4 I 1938/LSO 9:01           1939/BBC 9:52  
II   8:27             8:27  
III   4:25             4:15 *
IV   7:18             6:35  
    29:11             29:09  
Symphony No.5 I 1927/RPO 6:10 1932/BSO 6:31 1933/LPO 7:50   1939/NBC 7:09  
II   7:32   8:35   9:47     9:33  
III   4:45   5:16   5:10     5:06  
IV   8:31    8:45   8:45     8.56  
    26:58   29:07   31:32     30:44  
Symphony No.6 I 1927/RPO 8:52           1952/NBC 9:08 *
II   8:52             11:19  
III   2:41             2:45 *
IV   3:05             3:34  
V   7:45             8:37  
    33:14             35:23  
Symphony No.7 I 1927/RPO 10:56 1936/WPO 11:38 1923/LSO 11:15   1936/NYPO 11:41  
II   8:02   7:56   7:19     8:33  
III   7:17   7:58   6:08     6:28 *
IV   6:26   6:35   6:31     6:49  
    32:41   34:07   31:13     33:31  
Symphony No.8 I 1927/RPO 6:58 1936/WPO 7:10 1923/LSO 7:40   1952/NBC 7:20 *
II   3:20   3:32   3:46     3:37  
III   3.42   4:03   6:51     3:45 *
IV   7:27   7:57   8:08     7:17  
    21:27   22:42   26:25     21:59  
Symphony No.9  I 1926/LSO 15:28 1935/WPO 15:05       1952/NBC 13:23  
II   10:21   9:49         9:44 *
III   14:18   14:28         14:13  
IV   21:15   22:12          23:16  
    61:22   61:34         60:36  
                     

BRAHMS

  [ Top]  [ Bach]  [Beethoven ] [Mendelssohn]  [Mozart]  [Wagner ]  [Weber]  
Academic Festival Overture   1940/LSO 9:24           1948/NBC 10:07  
Symphony No.1 I 1928/RPO 12:00 1939/LSO 11:34 1924/LSO 11:31   1941/NBC 12:02  
II   8:22   8:52   7:27     8:31  
III   4:08   4:15   3:52     4:20  
IV   14:52   14:22   14:32     16:38  
    39:22   39:03   37:22     41:31  
Symphony No.2 I 1940/LPO 13:51           1952/NBC 14:30  
II   8:15             8:25  
III   5:02             5:22  
IV   7:54             8:52  
    35:02             37:09  
Symphony No.3 I 1938/LPO 8:33           1952/NBC 10:19 *
II   7:21             9:26  
III   5:31             6:47  
IV   7:49             8:49  
    29:14             35:21  
Symphony No.4 I 1938/LSO 11:58           1951/NBC 10:50  
II   9:00             10:15  
III   6:18             6:04  
IV   9:17             9:01  
    36:33             36:10  
Haydn Variations   1938/LPO 15:12           1936/NYPO 16:57 *
                     

MENDELSSOHN 

  [ Top]  [ Bach]  [Beethoven - 5 ]  [Brahms]  [Mozart]  [Wagner ]  [Weber]  
Symphony No.3 I 1929/RPO 12:25           1941/NBC 11:43  
II   4:12             3:57  
III   8:17             8:45  
IV   8:42             8:15  
    33:36             32:40  
                     

MOZART

                     
Symphony No.39 I 1928/RPO 8:11 1939/Paris 8:16       1948/NBC 7:20  
II   8:48   8:16         6:03  
III   3:47   3:50         3:05  
IV   4:02   4:06         3:35  
    24:48   24:28         20:03  
                     

WAGNER

                     
Dawn and Rhine Journey   1939/Paris 7:43           1936/NYPO 9:00 *
Funeral Music   1939/Paris 7:16           1952/NBC 8:48 *
Rienzi Overture   1939/Paris 9:57           1938/NBC 11:35  
Siegfried Idyll   1938/LSO 15:45           1952/NBC 17:28  
                     

WEBER

                     
Der Freischutz Ouvertüre   1928/Basel 8:20 1932/Paris 9:01 (Film)     1952/NBC 9:53  
* Repeats have been excised or other adjustment made to ensure that the amount of music timed is the same for compared recordings.
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