BUYING AND SELLING

Buying & Running a Griffith/Chimaera
Or You Might Prefer a BMW
Financing
HPI Checks
Autolign Inspections
What's an Average Mileage?
Resale Values
Warranty

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Buying & Running a Griffith/Chimaera

Sprint - May 96
Background
Overall Impressions
Bodywork
Chassis and Steering
Engine, Exhaust, Cooling and Fuel Systems
Transmission
Electrical Systems
Instruments
Conclusion

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Background

At the beginning of December I wrote to Sprint asking for advice on buying a Griff or Chimaera. The letter was published in the February issue, and in the meantime I had actually found a 4.0 Chimeara I liked and bought it. Anyone who knows me would not be surprised by this, as I do tend to be a bit impulsive once I get an idea in my head. That said, the appeal wasn't wasted because I had a number of letters as a result, with enough information to produce the article I had promised to write.

In total, I had fourteen letters describing fifteen cars - not enough for any meaningful statistics, but enough I think to give prospective buyers some tips on what to look out for. I have included myself as number sixteen, since my car had a service history with it. A few of the more general comments are based on conversations with my dealer and other owners.

I don't know what makes someone respond to an appeal for information from a total stranger, but from the percentage of members who did this you have to conclude they aren't normal. This shouldn't therefore be taken as any sort of representative survey - simply one person's interpretation of things that a few other people felt like telling him.

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Overall Impressions

Did my correspondents like their cars? Well, eight gave the impression of being very happy overall, four pretty satisfied, one not too impressed and two downright disgusted. I have excluded myself from this as I'm still too in love to be sensible about it.

Two of the unhappy owners had new Griffith 500s. Both cars developed a major fault, but this wasn't the main reason for dissatisfaction: they also had a large number of relatively minor problems which the owners felt were unacceptable in a £35,000 car. The third owner bought a used 4.3 Chimaera that broke down repeatedly with fuel system and electrical faults. This really did sound like a rogue car, or possibly a rogue garage, and the owner eventually gave up on it.

The twelve satisfied owners had their share of problems as well, but nothing that seemed to outweigh the fun they were having. Four of them had so little trouble that I would have been impressed if they were talking about mass-produced cars, let alone hand-built ones.

Even the unhappy owners said their cars went like greased weasel poo, handled beautifully and looked terrific. The only complaint about driveability was snatchiness at low speeds, and I gather this is particularly bad on early 500 Griffs. However, you can tell all that from a test drive, and this is supposed to be about the things you can't.

Moving on to one of those aspects then, what do they cost to run? Fuel consumption is about 23 mpg. Oil is expensive but only one car was using much of it. One owner had kept his car for over 45,000 miles and reported average 6,000 mile service costs of about £500. Insurance seems to cost most people about £500 a year. Tyres last around 15,000 miles and cost £700-800 a set. Doing 12,000 miles over two years is therefore likely to cost about £1500 in petrol, £1000 in servicing, £1200 in tax and insurance and £600 in tyres. That adds up to £4300, or about 36p a mile.

The other major cost is depreciation. From a quick scan of dealer adverts for twenty-odd 4.0 Chimaeras it seems that prices fall by about £1,200 to £1,500 a year at the sort of mileage I'm using as an example. This isn't the whole story of course, because most of us buy and sell through a dealer, and his margin will be £2-3k, bringing the total depreciation over two years to about £5k. On this basis two years ownership is going to cost about £9-10k, plus anything awful that goes wrong. What surprised me most was that every time you put £10 worth of petrol in the tank you'll have scuffed off about £4 worth of rubber as well.

Other aspects are dealt with below. The way I approached this was simply to reduce each letter to a series of comments, type them all into a big list (about 150 in all) coded by things like model, year, mileage, owner and topic, then sort and sift in various ways looking for points that seemed worth bringing out in a summary. Not very scientific I admit, but neither was the sample. I have included some quirks that you shouldn't worry about as well as faults that you should, in the hope that knowing "they all do that" might save some unnecessary distress about your particular car.

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Bodywork

Several owners said the heating and ventilation were rather feeble. Three cars had problems with boot mechanisms, five with door mechanisms and two with seat belts that kept jamming. Griffith glove box catches don't, as a rule, catch - solved on the Chimaera by not having a glove box.

Chimaera boot hinges can corrode and/or break. One owner had heard of faulty paint batches on some 1992/3 cars. The nose and cills pick up quite a lot of stone chips, so signs of respraying don't necessarily mean anything sinister. There were only three cars that leaked, with one case of flooded footwells cured by putting fabric waterproofer on the hood.

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Chassis and Steering

Peeling paint and surface rust on the chassis is not unusual. Tyres seem to last between 10-18k miles. One member had heard of very high rear tyre wear (less than 4k miles) on some Chimaeras, with no obvious reason for it. No reports of steering or suspension problems apart from one new Chimaera with a leaking rack and play in the column. One used car was sold with the camber set wrongly, spoiling two good tyres before it was corrected. Owners who had power steering were very impressed with it. If it makes strange whirring noises on full lock, it's probably just an over-filled fluid reservoir.

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Engine, Exhaust, Cooling and Fuel Systems

I've lumped these together because not much was said. There was a crankshaft fault on some 1993/4 500 Griffiths, leading to a recall. Chimaera starter motors are reputed to be giving problems, and one car here had needed a new one. There were two cases of fractured exhaust manifolds on 1992 4.3 Griffs, costing £400 a side to replace (stainless steel ones at £600 are supposed not to crack). Apart from that, one faulty distributor, one fuel pump relay, one fan otter switch and a couple of minor oil and coolant leaks. One owner did have a lot of trouble with intermittent misfires which were only sorted in the end by taking the car to the factory. Surprisingly, no reports of overheating.

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Transmission

One gearbox failure on a new 1993 Griffith 500, one differential failure on a 1992 4.0 Griffith and a couple of oil leaks reported. A suggestion that some Chimaeras are suffering early clutch wear but no specific cases. Expect gears (especially second) to be difficult to engage until the oil warms up.

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Electrical Systems

Five cars had alarm faults, and one of them had three different faults. The microwave sensitivity is very variable (some won't go off unless you wave your hand under the dashboard and others are upset by a gust of wind), but it can be adjusted. Warnings about not leaving the alarm armed for long periods were common - it flattens the battery, then sets itself off and locks you out. The alarm is behind the front grille (for all you car thieves out there) and very exposed to the elements, so reports of problems when it rains were hardly surprising. In fact a lot of the wiring seems to get a good drenching in bad weather and is a potential source of trouble.

Electric windows are slow and sometimes stick, as do the electric mirrors (the glass rubs on the casing). Reversing light switches are temperamental and horn buttons don't always work. One owner pointed out that the Griffith driving lamps are well sited to pick up flying stones and he gets through one every 5000 miles or so at £70 a throw.

The battery is an absolute pig to get at, and should only be attempted by potholers. The correct method, so I'm told, is to lay on your back with your head in the footwell, bum on the seat and feet in the air, then reach back and grope. Two new cars had batteries replaced within three thousand miles.

A good proportion of the problems that drove the disgruntled owners to distraction were electrical, and many of the others were to do with . . .

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Instruments

Eight cars had instruments that went wrong. Three of these were speedos, but a clock, rev counter, oil gauge and tank sender unit also feature in the list. My fuel gauge reads empty when it's half full, and I understand that's fairly typical. I don't know who is making TVR's dials, but they clearly need a good talking to.

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Conclusion

The weak areas should be fairly obvious. Out of seventy actual failures I recorded, half were to do with electrics, instruments or the mechanisms in doors, boots and seatbelts. Over a quarter of all faults were electrical, and half of those involved the alarm.

Four of the owners who bought new cars had only one or two warranty repairs they thought were worth mentioning, and one of them had done 30k miles. Three others had about ten each. The average was five. Used cars varied between one and nine, with an average of five again. A lot of this variablity is no doubt down to what people felt was worth telling me, but I think some of it is real. The factory is obviously capable of making very reliable cars, but not consistently. It also appears that a used one is no more likely to go wrong than a new one, which speaks well for their basic ruggedness.

From the letters I received, I got the strong impression that the least happy owners had not been looked after very well by their dealers. The owners tended to blame the factory, which would be fair if you had a BMW because they've engineered the craftsmanship out of maintaining their cars. TVR haven't, and the dealer knows they haven't, so he shouldn't be selling them if he can't cope. I was horrified by the inconvenience some owners suffered because their dealer seemed incapable of diagnosing faults. Sorry, I'm ranting, but I do feel strongly about this.

Anyway, if you are contemplating buying a new TVR, check out the dealer's reputation and be prepared to be patient while he shakes the bugs out. If the nearest good dealer is a long way away, consider moving house as a precaution. The good news is that, having prepared yourself for trouble, it may never happen. If you are looking for a used one, though, bear in mind that it may have been a bad-un and it may not have been sorted out yet.

So there we have it. Not so much a survey as a straw poll, and not something to take too seriously. I'm not closing the books on this, so if anyone else wants to phone or write I'd love to hear from you and I might offer an update if the picture changes with a larger response. By the way, I'm thoroughly enjoying my Chimaera and liking it more by the day, so none of the above has put me off in the least.

[I've just run the spelling-checker on this and it changed Griff to Grief. A bit unfair, I thought.]

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Or You Might Prefer a BMW

Oct 96
As a footnote to the above, I spotted the following item in the October 23rd issue of Autocar.

. . . John Davies was far from satisfied with his approved used K-reg BMW 320i coupe. He said "You are paying a premium for a car that's supposed to be checked thoroughly, but I don't think that's happening. After 20,000 miles I had had three new clutches, two new gearboxes, a new catalytic converter, alternator, rear exhaust and six new ignition coils. . ."

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Financing

Internet Mailing List Sep 96
A friend of mine in London is thinking of opting out of his company car scheme and getting a Chimeara for everyday use. He was thinking of an S, but now due to finance deals he is thinking of a Chimeara. Basically the finance deal on a 24 grand car would go like this: He has a loan over 3 years for 12 grand and has the car, then after 3 years he either pays the dealer 12 grand and keeps the car, or the dealer sells the car, and he has the difference. Has anyone any advice on such scheme's . . .
Ian Collins

Internet Mailing List Sep 96
I did a similar deal to get the V8S but put a small deposit on the car to get the best price although you can get zero deposit deals if you look around, as you have found out. The scheme probably works as follows:

The finance company lends the 24 grand. You pay the interest on the 24 grand and payback the 12 grand as well over the three years. This will be a lot less than a loan for 24 grand but more than for a simple 12 grand loan. I found that a small deposit dramatically reduced the costs - less perceived risk by the finance company, I suspect. To get a quote, you specify an initial deposit, the monthly rate you want to pay and they would work out the residual payment. It's worth getting different quotes for deposit and residuals - it is not linear or consistent! Key points to watch out for:

1. Cost. Check with companies such as Lombard for a competitive quote.

2. Who owns the car? With a lease purchase, the finance company retains ownership. This is not necessarily a problem but read the small print to find out exactly what the situation is.

3. In which name the car is registered (this, for some reason, can affect the insurance!)?

4. Any penalties to get out of the deal early? This is important if you change jobs or heaven forbid don't like the Chimp or want that V16 version that will be announced in October (!).

5. Check what mileage rate you get for business miles. Some opt-out schemes assume 30+mpg and if you do a lot of business miles, you end up subsidising the company.

There are some amazing schemes going on at the moment. Team Central were doing contract hire on a new Chimp for 308 pnds + VAT a month for a 12 month contract including maintainance. Lease-purchase may be a cheaper option as I found it effectively had a lower interest rate and the payments are tax deductable if the car is a company owned one or your friend has a self-employed interest. The other thing to do is get some tax advice because your friend may find that the time he uses the car on business may be tax deductable anyway i.e. if he does 8000 personal miles and 8000 business miles, half the costs are deductable. It depends on the small print but it would be worth getting some advice before proceeding. It may dramatically affect the sums.

The other point is that he will probably need business insurance which can dramatically increase the costs depending on your friend's job and the mileage. Peart Associates were pretty good and I swapped a 15% limited mileage discount for business cover and unlimited mileage. If your friend is field based, expect a hefty hike though.
Steve Heath

Internet Mailing List Sep 96
Those of us in the UK who are in permanent employment may be interested to know that for the first time this year, as part of the new self-assessment scheme, it is possible to claim a tax rebate where your employer pays less per mile than the Inland Revenue decides is fair. The IR figures are a simple scale based on engine size bands, but TVR V8s all fall into the highest category at 60p per mile. What this means is if your employer only pays 40p per mile, you can claim a tax rebate on 40% of the 20p per mile difference (for a higher rate tax payer). This lessens the effect of employers paying too little.

These so called balloon payments where you pay half on credit and worry about the other half later are usually bad news. For instance, if you buy a new Ford or Vauxhall on this scheme you pay half over two years, then discover that you have nothing to put down on the next car, and no car unless you pay the other half, which is of course all it is worth after two years. In effect what you are paying for on credit is purely the depreciation. It's slightly different with a TVR (or any low depreciating car) because after the credit period the car is still worth a lot more than half, therefore you at least have some equity. Not my cup of tea though. When initially giving up a company car, surely it's better to set your sights a bit lower for a couple of years so that after two years you have something which you own outright, to offset the cost of the next (better) car, and build up to something good over a few years.
Steve Powell

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HPI

Sprint Dec95
. . . The HPI Service is not just limited to the trade, you can contact them, they offer a wide range of services and have done since 1938, whilst HPI makes every effort to record and relay information accurately, it cannot guarantee that the information is true, accurate or complete. HPI's computerised registers list millions of vehicles reported stolen, accident write-offs, those subject to outstanding finance deals together with plate change and identity details. HPI offer the following services, Vehicle Identity, Plate Transfer, Security Watch, Stolen Vehicles, Condition Inspected, Condition Alert, Outstanding Finance, First Registration and Vehicle Identification Number (VIN) Match.

One call to HPI will provide all the above information in seconds, the call will cost you £25.00 and all you need to give them is the vehicle registration number, the VIN (chassis no.) and your credit card details for instant access to their database. HPI is open 7 days a week, 365 days a year from 8.00am to 8.OOpm Monday to Saturday and l0.O0am to 5.OOpm on Sundays. Call 01722 - 422422 and they will tell you if the vehicle is on one or more of their registers. Within 24 hours you will also be sent written confirmation of the enquiry including details of any register the vehicle may be on . . .
Stewart McZuillian

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Autolign Inspections

Sprint Jan96
I am writing this letter in reply to the HPI or Bust article in the December edition of Sprint. Whilst I agree it is advisable to check a car on the HPI register prior to buying it, I disagree that just because a car has been 'written off' it is not worth buying. To give readers a better insight to the way the HPI registers work in relation to write-offs I shall explain. There are basically two registers for written off vehicles, the Vehicle Condition Alert Register (VCAR) and the Condition Inspected Register (CIR). A vehicle will appear on the VCAR when it is notified to HPI that a 'Total Loss' or 'Write Off' pay out has been made. If this vehicle is subsequently repaired it will remain on the VCAR until it is inspected at an AUTOLIGN test centre. If the vehicle passes the inspection it will be reclassified into the CIR, if this test was carried out prior to January 1995 the vehicle would have been removed totally from the HPI process as the CIR did not exist. Some insurance companies now insist that vehicles that they write off are tested at AUTOLIGN before they will release any documents for the vehicle.

The AUTOLIGN inspection is carried out in one of their purpose built centres, these are equipped with some of the most up to date equipment available, which includes computerised four-wheel alignment, brake testers, etc., and even instruments for detecting filler and paint thickness. Believe me, the test is thorough. After the test a full report is provided detailing the quality of the repair, thedata from the alignment checks, the results of the road test and whether the car passed or if it failed, why it failed. Apparently only 75% pass first time. The cost of the test goes from £150 for a small hatchback to £250 for something more exotic like a TVR . . .

. . . What I would like to advocate is, if you are offered a car which has been damaged, check it over thoroghly as you would if you were buying an old car which had been restored. Check the quality of the repairs and if it has not been through an AUTOLIGN inspection ask the seller if they would be prepared to take it for one before you purchase it.

Just because an insurance company has written off a car it doesn't mean it is scrap, it means that when they have added up the cost of labour, parts and paint it isn't worth them having it repaired because the cost is close to or above the car's market value. It may be well worth someone having the car repaired using seconhand parts and carrying out some of the labour themselves. This 'stigma' is not attached to older cars which have been stripped and rebuilt due to rust or general deterioration, so why should a damaged car which has been rebuilt be any different? It's the only way I can afford to run a TVR in addition to my normal everyday car and I'm sure other enthusiasts/readrers will agree with my comments.
Phil Robinson

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What's an Average Mileage?

Feb 99
Based on about 40 dealer ads for Griffiths and Chimaeras in the January 1996 issue of Top Marques, the average car was covering about 6000 miles a year.

The January 1999 issue contains about 150 cars, and the average annual mileage is now about 7000.

There is very little difference in the milage covered by Chimaeras and Griffs. The figures were calculated by converting the registration year and letter into an age in months at the date the magazine was published, so that in January 1996 for example 95 N-reg cars (ie. registered between 1st August and 31st December 1995) were assumed to be three months old on average, 95 M-reg nine months old, and so on.

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Resale Values

Aug 97
Click here for January 99 update.

I've been keeping an eye on used TVR prices over the last couple of years. The results are interesting.

I haven't gone into a huge amount of detail with this, just bought occasional copies of Great Cars and Top Marques and checked the prices being asked by TVR main dealers for different years and models. Obviously this approach is not very accurate - specifications and mileages differ and deciding what an 'average' example might cost involves quite a lot of guesswork. It is also possible to find several examples of a particular model/year one month and none at all a few months later. As an example, this month's Great Cars had fifty Griffith/Chimaeras advertised. Spread that across eight engine variants (I'm counting on my fingers here), twelve year/registration bands, plus different trim options and mileage variations, and you can see the problem. Despite all this, I'm pretty confident that the general trend described here is correct.

And that is? Well, if you'd bought a 1993 K Reg 4.0 Chimaera in January 1996 you would probably have paid a dealer £25,000 for it. Fourteen months later, in March 1997, you could find the same car (with a few more miles on the clock) in the showroom for . . . um . . . £25,000. By August '97, nineteen months on, the price would be - guess what - £25,000. It's the same story more or less right across the range, for every model-year. 1993 pre-cat 4.3s seem to have gone up by about £500 over the period, and all 500s seemed to have dropped by a couple of thousand. The latter may have something to do with new 500 prices having staying pretty much the same for a year or so while the other models went up a bit. If you want a little more detail, here it is:

Chimeara 4.0Jan-96Mar-97Aug-97
93K24,80024,80025,000
93L25,60025,40025,500
94L26,75026,33326,500
94M27,75027,40028,000
95M28,65028,10029,000
95N29,50029,00029,000
96N30,20029,80030,000
96P*30,65030,70031,500
Griffith 4.3Jan-96Mar-97Aug-97
92J25,50025,000no samples
92K24,35725,45025,000
Griffith 5.0Jan-96Mar-97Aug-97
93L30,20027,62529,000
94L31,50028,90028,000
94M32,50030,20028,500
95M33,45031,50030,333
95N34,30032,50032,000
96N35,10033,45033,500
96P*35,80034,30034,500

* The 96P line in the Jan96 column is the new price on the road then. I've added £1,200 to the list price for miscellaneous extras to arrive at the price of a 'typical' spec level.

Glitches in the figures like 95M & N Chims both averaging £29,000 in August 97 happen because of the small number of samples. I couldn't decide which might be correct by trying to smooth the values (using polynomial regression analysis if you want the posh term for it), so I left them as they were. This emphasises that you shouldn't wave these figures under a dealer's nose in an attempt to prove something.

If you are selling, bear in mind that these figures are what dealers were advertising the cars for, not what you can expect to be offered. A dealer mark-up of about 10% when you trade in seems fairly typical, so if a dealer offers you £25,000 you can expect to see your car in his showroom for about £27,000 to £28,000. This will obviously depend a lot on circumstances, eg. how much stock the dealer is carrying, whether he thinks he can move your particular car quickly, whether you are trading in for a new or used one.

Footnote: In January 1998 I traded in my 1993 Chimaera 4.0 for a touch over £22,500 against a Griff. Not bad for something I bought two years and 20,000 miles ago for £25,000.

Resale Values - January 1999 Update

In case anyone comes across these notes in ten years time and can't remember much about 1998:

  1. We had a miserably wet spring when hardly anyone was in the mood the go shopping for a sportscar.
  2. There was a vicious recession in the far-east. Concerns that the UK economy might be hit as well rumbled on through the year.
  3. Car manufacturers were 're-aligning' their inflated UK prices in response to competition from direct imports and ominous noises about price-fixing from the EU commissioners.
  4. It was the last year of annual August registration letter changes.
The climate (literally and economically) wasn't too good for selling flashy sportscars and by the autumn there was plenty of stock clogging up dealers' forecourts. Interestingly, this wasn't really reflected in the prices in Top Marques during October. At that time the price of a given model-year Chimaera 4.0 was only 4 or 5% less than the previous October. For a Griff 5.0 the drop was about 6 to 8%. By January dealers seem to have lopped another 5% off their October asking prices, but this could, I suppose be put down to routine winter discounting (you'd think by this time I'd know whether dealers reduce their prices in the winter, but I don't). Here is the same table as above, extended to include October 97, October 98 and January 99.

Chimaera 4.0 Jan-96Mar-97Aug-97Oct-97Oct-98Jan-99
93K24,80024,80025,00025,00023,500none
93L25,60025,40025,50025,00024,00023,800
94L26,75026,33326,50025,12524,60024,375
94M27,75027,40028,00026,60026,50025,500
95M28,65028,10029,00028,16727,00026,318
95N29,50029,00029,00028,92928,28626,500
96N30,20029,80030,00029,66728,20527,143
96P30,65030,70031,50031,09129,00028,750
97P-32,667none32,05031,56230,350
97R-31,850nonenone31,08331,250
98R----31,66731,375
98S----none33,375
Griffith 4.3 Jan-96Mar-97Aug-97Oct-97Oct-98Jan-99
92J25,50025,000none26,000none23,500
92K24,35725,45025,000none24,000none
Griffith 5.0 Jan-96Mar-97Aug-97Oct-97Oct-98Jan-99
93L30,20027,62529,00028,12526,33325,600
94L31,50028,90028,00029,66726,00026,000
94M32,50030,20028,50029,50030,00027,375
95M33,45031,50030,33331,00029,20028,250
95N34,30032,50032,00033,41730,84028,667
96N35,10033,45033,50033,00030,46230,692
96P35,80034,30034,50034,250none32,000
97P-35,10036,000none33,25030,667
97R----35,50034,000
98R---none35,75034,800
98S----none36,500

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Warranty

June 98
The other day I was talking to a relative who used to work for Cornhill Insurance. The topic of the TVR '5 Star Gold Cover' warranty came up because Cornhill underwrites part of the policy, and I'd been trying to help with a query about warranty cover that came up on the internet mailing list a few days earlier. I learned a few interesting things from this conversation which may be worth passing on.

Warranty Holdings, who run the scheme, are not an insurance company. All they do is to identify a market, draft a policy and then hawk it around insurance companies until they find one who will underwrite it. The underwriters (in this case NIG Skandia for the mechanical cover and Cornhill for the optional accident cover) provide the actual insurance in return for a percentage of the premiums Warranty Holdings collect from dealers (and from owners if they elect to continue the cover after the dealer period has expired).

This means that if your car develops a fault NIG Skandia pays, not Warranty Holdings. Warranty Holdings process the claim and attempt to negotiate a settlement with you. I gather that insurance companies don't really like this sort of business much, for two reasons. One is that they don't know who their policyholders are so they can't market other services to them. The other is that scheme operators (not Warranty Holdings particularly) have a different culture to the insurance industry at large, which doesn't endear them to the staff in the insurance firms.

This is a bit subtle, but it seems to boil down to the fact that most insurance companies have been around a long time and have a long term view of developing their business. At the root of this is the concept of 'utmost good faith' and maintaining public confidence in the industry. Profits come, not from wriggling out of borderline claims but from assessing a risk properly in the first place. Scheme operators are new on the scene, don't have this geological view of business development and want to keep the level of claims low so that they can do a good deal with the underwiters next year.

What this means in practice is that, if Warranty Holdings reject a claim, remember they aren't the insurers. You are likely to get a more sympathetic hearing from NIG Skandia and they do have the power to instruct Warranty Holdings to pay. You do not have to appeal to the Warranty Holdings Claims Manager then the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders, as the policy document says. Of course if you do go straight to NIG Scandia without giving Warranty Holdings a fair chance to reconsider, this might make you look like the unreasonable party.

Whilst on the subject of the TVR warranty, it really is a good idea to read it. It's short and in plain English, so re-phrasing clauses isn't going to make anything clearer than it already is. However, in case you have an incredibly low boredom threshold, here are a few 'bullet points' (my interpretation of the 1998 policy):

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