(Note: If you entered the Delphic Oracle through the copy of this page over on Bravenet, no problem. You can go directly to that page from here, or continue on downward to the bottom of this page, here you'll find the code for both this page and that one. Either way, we'll get you home). Thank you for dropping by. If you need to get in touch, this mail form should help you get in touch with me. (Inserted comment: But plese don't expect me to answer your present concerns about the ring, because it is under new management, whose Webring contact system I've just given you a link to). Please be patient, as I do have a life outside of the Internet, and don't log in every day.
Temporary entry pages for some of the older sites which were having
problems with Pass_L ratings (but which were still feeding hits into the
ring) can be found at Patricia Cottards's Home for
Wayward Pagans and The Homepage for the
Hermes' RecRoom and Trickster Gods Forum Mailing List. The sites on
this ring that are being entered that way, right now, are:
- Homage to Pythagoras
- Caelius' Greek Deities Page
- Satellite and DeLaura Latin Club Home Page
Sites Entered Via Hermes' RecRoom
- Poseidon's Greek Mythology
- Spartan History
("Everything Spartan, Lakonian and Messenian")
Pass_L is not accepted on this webring, because the presence of sites getting only a Pass_L hurts the navigation rating. That makes the ring less inviting to those passing through, meaning that fewer will take the time to travel the ring, and our member sites will see less traffic. That's not fair to our members. Also, a Pass_L fails to distinguish between the ring code being on a non-entry page, and, say, the ring code present being that for another page. This, we've already seen happen, with the result that the Delphic Oracle navbar wasn't appearing, and the ring was broken. The only way to distinguish between a good Pass_L and a bad Pass_L is by a time consuming, manual crawl through the sites with that rating, and if we see dozens of sites doing that, this job will become impossible. We had to insist on a few changes, but we do try to work with people, and feel that the creation of these entry pages was a good first step, one which we hope will make life a little easier for our members.
The first question some may ask is whether or not we're trying to scam Webring in some way, by increasing our navigational rating in this way. The answer is "not at all". In the old days, when a lot of these pages first appeared, Webring allowed an option that would let ringmasters allow their members to put their ringcode on a different page than the one visitors would enter their sites from, from the ring. This made more than a little sense, because the entire point of the ring code is to help people who are already on the site, to find the webring that the page is on. Compare this to the current situation, in which ringmasters will complain of members who stick ring code on an entry page, to which there is no return path, and yet get Pass ratings. The new way of doing things just doesn't make sense, and the old way had a certain elegance about it. One didn't have the navbar thrown in one's face the moment one came in off the ring, a reminder of that which one had scarcely had time to forget.
These people are dealing with us in good faith. The way they configured their sites WAS valid at the time they joined the ring, and if Webring administration has changed the rules on them after the fact, that's hardly their fault. So, it really would not be fair to suspend their sites, least of all with so little notice. Like I said, they are feeding traffic back into the ring, and so Webring isn't being cheated in any way. This is, as I told a few of them, merely a technical problem, and so to give it a temporary, technical solution seems only fitting. Something that will give them a little breathing room, as they find the time in busy schedules to fix a problem which they did nothing to create. (Those who weren't feeding hits back into the ring, we simply suspended, sending them notices explaining the situation).
To those who were wondering "couldn't the ringmaster have just edited their memberships so that visitors from the ring would enter the sites in question via the webring pages", we have to say "no". There were a few memberships which we were able to edit in that way, but the webring pages (on the sites you see above) had no links back to the main pages for their respective sites. This created obvious problems, in that an easy solution to the Pass_L problem wasn't available. It's also not good for the site, in general.
For reasons unknown to us, search engines often seem to have a perverse fondness for listing 'terminal pages' like that, pages which have no link back to the rest of the site they're part of. This means that visitors to the site, coming in from the search engines (as the vast bulk of visitors seem to, at the time of this writing (Jan.27,2004)), will find themselves with nowhere to go, and will quickly leave the site. This costs the site traffic, and means that less of it gets read, especially since those visitors who find themselves so inconvenienced are less likely to link to the page they visited, from their own sites. This will also get the site penalized in some of the search engine rankings, because one of the criteria for computing those rankings, often, is the amount of relevant material linked to from the page listed, and another is the number of relevant pages linking to the page listed, meaning that a reasonable amount of page linking, within a site, will help all of the pages on the site in the rankings. So, totally aside from Pass_L considerations, to set up pages that way is just a bad idea, and if you have set up a page that way on your own site, we'd urge you to change it, immediately. Why hurt yourself, that way?
This webring is, as we've said, under new management, and like any ringmaster, the current one has his own way of doing things. Kyrene Ariadne, as we've indicated, allowed Pass_L as a rating, and while we're sure she must have had her reasons, we've firmly insisted on a change. Even so, we're not here to do the "bull in a china shop" routine. As far as we see this approach to be practical, we try to honor the traditional notion of somebody being "grandfathered in". There are a number of sites on this ring - no need to name names - which, if they applied today, would be rejected, because they don't fit in with the current focus of the ring. And there are ringmasters who, as they take over a new ring, will be very casual about tossing sites off of a ring, where they have been for some while, on that basis. They want what they want when they want it, and what they want to see is their visions made reality, instantly. That, as far as we're concerned, is just plain rude, and that is not how we're going to do business here.
The rules below are the ones that we're giving to new applicants to
the ring. If you click on "join this ring", you'll see them. If, as you
look over these rules, you start thinking "my site is a little too New
Age, and is going to be deleted", what we're telling you is "don't worry
about it". We're not going to throw you off of the ring over that, as
strongly as we may disagree with your approach to the subject matter.
Sites devoid of real Greek or Roman content, or which do legitimately
preach hatred are another matter. Also, if you do have R rated material on
a site already on this ring, we'll expect to see a warning page put in
place, and the use of content tags in order to aid child protection
filtering software. Something along the lines of
By doing so, you help parents keep their children from seeing things that they're not ready to see, and you keep this ring from getting in trouble with Webring, because it is not an adult ring, and as far as we know, never was one. This is the right thing to do in general, and it's policy, so if you're not in compliance, we expect you to be so shortly. As in, no later than the end of February, 2004. Here are those rules:
- You must use SSNB code. This is because from time to time links to featured sites on the ring will be inserted into the ring code, and getting everybody to change ring code at the same time would be very difficult.
- Yes, we've given outselves an exemption on this policy, but notice the reason for having the policy in the first place. We've had remarkable success in getting us to do what we want us to do, and we're pretty sure that we'll being to get us to change our own HTML when we want us to do so. We have bent ourselves to our own will, just that completely. It's appalling, really.
- "Pass_L" is not acceptable. Your site must achieve a full pass to be on this ring, and that means that
- The ring code MUST be on the page you enter into this ring.
- There must be a clear path back to the ring from your site, so that you will be feeding hits into the ring as well as receiving them from the ring.
- Content must be appropriate for this Graeco-Roman ring. Greek material is great, Roman material is great, a combination of the two is just fine - but a page about Wicca is not fine. There are other rings for that kind of thing. Lots of them.
- Those who are here to do Pagan pages should keep in mind that Greek and Roman Paganism (or "Hellenism" and the "Religio Romana" as some of us would prefer to call them) were culturally specific religions, and in a world in which we no longer approve of attempt to supplant each other's cultures, we see that they are not religions which would be appropriate for all of humanity. The universalism of normative Christianity is unavoidable because of a belief that theirs is the only true religion, and their god the only true god. From that point of view, to pin the religion down to anything like a specific cultural identity, and something of a tribal identity by implication, would be to say that the door to salvation is held open a little more widely for members of certain ethnic groups, a position which many are understandably reluctant to endorse.
But this was never the normative point of view among either the ancient Greeks or Romans, who were known on some occasions to see the gods of other nations as being their own in disguise, and to occasionally adopt those gods into their own pantheons when that illusion broke. Nor is it a widespread view of present-day Hellenic (Greek) or Roman Pagans, or our own, other Reconstructionist and Traditional faiths often being viewed with great respect by all of us. The truth about the Divine, some of us would say, is so large a thing, that we should never hope that our theological beliefs could ever contain more than a small piece of it, and so if another should grasp onto a different piece of it, such presumption on our part should we criticise him for doing so! We can no more understand that totality, than a dog can truly understand his master, and for the same reason - because those we would seek to understand so completely, transcend our limited intellects so utterly.
This being the case, there is no reason for us to hold the door to our faith comfortably opened wide for all of humanity to step through, because all of humanity need not step through to find any real sort of salvation in this life or the next. To those, for example, who may find themselves more at home in a Norse cultural setting than a Mediterranean one, we point out that the Aesir and Vanir are out there waiting for them, just as some of us have found the Olympians waiting for us, and we encourage them to consider the path of Asatru, which may better meet their needs and personal calling. Fot this reason, we do not and can not endorse or even accept the quasi-Protestant, anglocentric approach of some of our predecessors who said, "we desire to recreate the religion of the Greeks, not their society", not understanding that the two, to a certain degree, were inseperable, because religion permeated everyday life, as it does in Catholic and Jewish folk traditions to this very day. Would one ask the Mexicans to put a kimono on Our Lady of Guadeloupe in order to make their festivals more open to Japanese visitors?
There is more, far more, to traditional Greek and Roman religion than a recitation of deity names and offices. There were entire world views that touched every aspect of life, and so to completely discard the way of life that was molded by these faiths, or worse, attempt to mold it into a carbon copy of Anglo-American life by putting an absurd spin on the meanings of things the ancients said, is to make a mockery of the religions and show profound disrespect for the cultures, both of the ancients and of their descendents, who continued down paths their ancestors started them on. Sites which exhibit such cultural insensitivity, taking an Anglo-Saxon or other aggressively non-Graeco-Roman derived cultural viewpoint as an unquestioned (and perhaps unquestionable) given, projecting it upon cultures where it is utterly alien, will not be welcomed onto this ring.
- Your site doesn't have to be child safe, but let's keep it down to a PG rating. NO PORN.
- No hate sites. Please don't read that to mean that you have to be Politically Correct, or that you can't "criticise anybody's path". If this rule confuses you, we have something called the Uniform Base Code of Morality, arguably equivalent to the Hellenic Dicta ("all things in moderation" and "Know thyself") which, when read without spin doctoring, tells you where we draw the line. Think "middle of the road, common sense, traditional consensus notions of right and wrong, as they would have been seen before PC showed up".
- No fluff bunnies and no flakes. Your site has to make good, logical sense, and suggest a firm grasp on reality and common sense, on the part of the author.
This markedly differs from what would seem to be the approach of Kyrene
Ariadne, the founder of this ring, who wrote the following in the old
desctiption for this webring:
" A ring for those sites with interest in Greek
mysticism / philosophy / religion / mythology and / or those who worship
the Graeco-Roman gods. Greek pagans are especially welcome and encouraged
to join. Scholars of Graeco-Roman religion are equally as welcome. If you
are eclectic, it doesn't matter, as long as there is some Greek! I'm
trying to get people together with a common interest in the ancient
Graeco-Roman world, including the mythology, history, and
religion/philosophy."
The reader is left with the question, what has changed, now that the
Delphic Oracle is under new management. "Everything and nothing" comes the
maddeningly vague cliched answer. But sometimes cliches are the best
answers.
Everything in that the emphasis of the ring has shifted. The first thing you probably noticed is Boucher's painting of Leda and the Swan (Zeus in disguise). While the story portrayed is perhaps not Zeus' finest hour, the picture is used with love. Much like the Asatruar, many of us, as Hellenists, see the gods as being family, in a sense, and a sign of one's love for one's elders is often a gentle amusement with their quirks and frailties. What is significant, in this choice of redesign, is that rather than focus on the works of man in the graphic (eg. pictures of temples), we're signaling a renewed emphasis on the gods themselves, in the religious aspect of this ring. (Obviously, this concern does not apply to our Non-Pagan members, who we're not asking to develop a devotion to the Olympian gods).
Not that we in any way scorn those works of man. But, I think that much of the mainstream of Hellenism has been lead off course in recent years. I think that some of us have forgotten why we're here, why it is that Hellenism has little common ground with the New Age. As somebody else (I forget who) once wrote, ancient Paganism differed from Neo-Paganism in three very important regards. Three hallmarks of the old faith that he found missing from its self-styled successors were:
- A recognition of the existence of an objective morality, by which the actions of all might rightly be judged.
- The attempt to conect to something greater than ourselves
- A sense of awe in the presence of the Divine
In their obsession with the rigid ettiquette demanded by the self-styled American cultural mainstream, especially under Political Correctness, it is precisely these three things that some of us have allowed to fall by the wayside, in the name of not offending anybody. But worship, if it is to mean anything, must include a firm loyalty to the ones worshipped. When a New Ager utters some fashionable sound like "we are the gods", and in hearing the sacredness (or even the very reality) of our gods disputed, we find that we can't find the courage to firmly say "I disagree", because somebody might feel angered by that assertion, we are not showing loyalty. How can we be amazed if, in turning our backs on the gods over so petty a matter as short-term popularity, we find, one day, that the gods have run out of patience, and turned their backs on us?
We spoke of the need to symbolically place the gods before the works of man, and this is what we are referring to. Many, though they speak of their devotion to the gods, will set the expression of that piety to one side if a little heat comes their way, and far from being ashamed of this weakness of spirit, will convince themselves that civility demands this exercise in cowardice. Nonsense. Civility is that which allows us to work together, in a productive way, as we seek to live lives which are both pleasant and virtuous. There is no virtue to be found in placing the political works of man ahead of our relationship with those who would guide us, as we give those works purpose, in any legitimately religious context. As a certain much maligned former vice president once said, "religion is not a hobby".
Piety must come before Ettiquette, especially an ettiquette deeply rooted in a culture that Hellenism has no connection to, and, if truth be told, aside from the language, very few of us at this end feel much of a link to. This ring is not about "magick", it's about religion, yes, religion in the same sense that Judaism or Roman Catholicism are religion, deserving of the same respect, because the standards it holds its adherents to are just as high. Standards that we should stand up for with pride, and without fear, no matter how much irrational anger this may inspire in the narrowminded few. This ring is about tradition and philosophy, and how each is enriched by its seeming conflict with the other. It is about Greece and Rome, and all of the cultures which find their roots in them, and about the virtues that their peoples displayed, when they were at their best.
It is for this reason that no additional Wiccan sites will be admitted to this ring. Wicca is deeply rooted in a non-Mediterranean cultural tradition, one which meshes very poorly with those of Greece and Rome (and those cultures most deeply rooted in them). In our experience Wicca, by and large, promotes a belief in moral relativism, and has scarcely been supportive of piety in any real sense, reducing the gods to being nothing more than so many Jungian archetypes, dependent on us for their very existence. We and they can not travel together along our respective spiritual paths for the same reason that a traveller headed to Boston and one headed to San Diego can not travel together as they depart O'Hare : because we're headed in opposite directions, and if we try, we're going to get precisely nowhere.
Those Wiccan sites which are already on the ring will probably be allowed to stay, out of respect for the concept of being "grandfathered in". But this ring will be gradually sliding in a non-fluffy, less eclectic direction. Bad news in some eyes, good news in others. The good news comes to those who wanted to write something with substance and with an edge to it. As long as you write well, argue your points intelligently, and come from something truly resembling a Hellenic point of view, we're not going to care how politically incorrect you are. Remember the story of what happened when the Persian ambassador demanded soil and water from the Greeks, prior to the Persian war? He found himself thrown down a well, being told that he could find plenty of both at the bottom. The ancients were not afraid to offend, when they saw themselves as clearly being in the right, and we hope you won't be, either.
The emphasis is shifting away from mysticism, toward a more balanced valuing of both the rational and ecstatic aspects of faith. We would like to see more Philosophy on this ring. Like our predecessor, Kyrene Ariadne, we'll accept some eclecticism, but perhaps not quite as much as she would. We'd like to see a cultural coherence to the "eclecticism", what some would say would be more synchretism than eclecticism. For example, there actually was a Graeco-Egyptian synthesis under the Ptolemeys, and some might be interested in pursuing that. But if somebody throws together a random grab bag of deities from every pantheon she can find, binding it together with metaphysics a la Llewellyn, then this is not the ring for her. Aristotle, not Shirley MacLaine; cultural identy, not assimilation.
Did this answer your questions? The mailform above is available if you have any polite questions, but understand that policy is not open for haggling or debate. There are always other webrings, and to the best of our knowledge, this is one of only a few which have adopted nonfluffiness as policy, a policy which we will stand firm on, without compromise or apology.
Click here to re-enter the Delphic Oracle Webring. This page is being hosted on LewisLand, "home of disturbingly little".
(A copy of the ssnb for the ring is to be found here).