Ethnic Issues (II)
Paramendra Bhagat
August 8, 2002

Bahuns and the Nepali state by Nuru from Nepal Times (II)
Topic started by Paramendra Bhagat on 8/8/2002 1:51:59 PM EST

Since the original topic has been closed. For having over 100 messages.

Well, I discovered Sajha.com on Friday, and have been there since.

http://www.sajha.com/sajha/html/OpenThread.cfm?forum=2&ThreadID=6170

As for the comments here:

nepali: "How many janajatis speak Hindi?"

For the Janajati in the Hills, the link language is Nepali. And that is just fine.

Thanks maximus fan for your stand against bigotry.

fatichar: "What is the concept of a 'link language'? No where in the world have I seen this..."

Several countries have multiple official languages, and they have that to make all citizens feel included.

Switzerland has three national languages. And the Swiss seem to be doing just fine, don't you think? Now, are you throwing a lot with the Sadbhavana in Sarlahi this Mangsir, where it already is a force to be reckoned with, with the likes of Rajendra Mahato and Rameshwar Ray Yadav, both of which I had a chance to work with.

Canada has French and English.

"What about all the negative stereotypes we Terai people have about the hill people?"

There is some of that. But it is not as wide or deep, and because the Teraiwasis are not in power, they can not institutionalize those prejudices to put the hillsfolks at a collective disadvantage. As Gajendra Narayan Singh said in 1990: "Pahadi raja ne pahadiyo ko prajatantra diya. Hame kya diya?"

So you are a Madhesi yourself. That makes your stance interesting. I accuse you of internalized prejudice against the Teraiwasis.

"In order to demand equality in any nation, I think all nations expect some commitment to that nation to some extent."

That is what the Hindu supremacists in India demand of the minority Muslims. Sicko.

Replies to the above topic:

fatichar: "...Kalapani ... Treaties of 1950, Kosi, Gandaki, Tanakpur .... Regulation of the open border between Nepal and India ... What should Nepal's relation with India be...."

Is it not interesting that all those "unequal" treaties you say Nepal has signed with India in the past were signed by the Kathmandu elites, not by the Madhesis who you basically accuse of being more with India than with Nepal, basically accusing of not being "patriotic" and hence not deserving of the full rights of citizenship in Nepal.

The open border. I don't think it is India that is for the open border. It is Nepal. When India closed the border in the late 1980s - Rajiv Gandhi got pissed at King Birendra - you know what happened: you got multi-party democracy.

The question is less what the relation ought to be, more what it is. Nepal is a land-locked country, practically engulfed by India on all sides, with massive people-to-people non-political contact. Why do you fantasize about curbing that?

Nuru Lama: "...Such incidences are not as common as one would expect because mostly the authorities go unchallenged..."

The Shahas, Ranas, and the Bahun-Chhetris are all the same. They have taken turns to power and denied the same to other groups. The solution is not anything anti-Bahun, but something that smacks of equality, equal opportunity regardless of background.

I appreciate your supposed level-headed approach, but you end up saying not much. What you are saying is, there is a problem, but we don't need to do anything about it, other than what is already being done, as in hopefully more kids are going to school.

"...From what i have known and seen, the bahuns are internally fractionalized (witness: struggles within and between parties, the maoists..) ..."

There always have been raging debates in the US Congress, so that disproves the existence of racism!?

"...I agree there are wide ethnic inequalities and pervasive ethnic stereotyping but not an agenda-based, conspiratorial, codified system to undermine the minorities...."

In a country where the economy is largely informal, don't you think informal/social prejudices sting as bad?

"....In fact, when confronted this way, the bahuns would develop a sharper sense of ethnic unity and given their hold of the state machinery, they would use it to suppress ethnic demands...."

Don't complain too hard, or they will make things worse! Now come on.

To sum it up, economic growth and educational expansion would be great and would help, but ethnic issues have to be addressed in their own right. Stop suggestions of trickle-down reductions in ethnicism.

"...one day he may propose Patna as our capital city..."

Well, considering Kathmandu currently does not act like it is the capital city of all Nepalis ...

Language talk by others:

The Ranas used to have Urdu plays in their courts. During the Malla era, Maithili came close to becoming the national language at one point.

Yossarian: "..the people of the Terai want their long witheld access to realpolitik in Nepal. if 50% of a population is treated like second class citizenary, there are serious political issues to be resolved. and PLEASE!!! don't tell me the teraibasis aren't treated like that..."

Thanks.

"...Now, to get to you: why can't you accept a language as A TOOL FOR COMMUNICATION?? No! Maithili would not suffice to the needs of the people who speak Bhojpuri and Avadhi and Rajbanshi, but Hindi would. AND HINDI DOESNOT MEAN "INDIAN LANGUAGE." etymologically, it simply means 'language of the land east of the Sindhu river.' the ancient persians had no alphabet or character for the particular 'Sa' sound in Sindhu [although they had 6 different kinds of Sha], so they pronounced it Hindu [i believe there is a similar trait in some western dialects of Nepali too]. all land east of Sindhu became Hindustan for them. and the Hindus called their language Hindi. THERE WAS NO FREAKING INDIA THEN!!! .... so, if a particular language can cater to the needs of 50% of the modern Nepali population [and also the population with the largest growth rate], why does you bigot attitude have to oppose it? does India make your patriotic identity so insecure? i have been speaking in support of Hindi, a language, and You have been opposing India!! that is so ridiculous! plese take your insecurities elsewhere...."

Thanks for making an attempt to help people understand Hindi and India are not one and the same thing.

VisitingPoster: "...Go talk to a Kurd, go talk to a Bhutanese Nepali exile, go talk to a Palestinian refugee, and you will find out how cheaply you are using these words..."

Someone understand the issue better abroad than at home.

Change: "...If what you've been saying is true, then why 50% of Nepal's population can't start change? ...Why the heck they don't vote for the ones that represent their voices? ... It is incredible that even in these adverse social system all races have fared so well upto this point..."

Your comment is positive. I believe in change as you suggest. Through their right to vote, the Teraiwasis now have the option for vote for the party that will truly represent them. Well, the Nepalis kept the Nepali Congress in the wilderness for 50 years before finally they got "enlightened" enough to usher in democracy. Similarly the civil rights struggle in the Terai will come around. Change will happen, I am hoping peacefully and through electoral politics.

Define "fared so well!"

Yossarian: "... it is considered a patriiotic virtue in Nepal to hate India...."

Indophobia. Fear India. But you can't do jackshit about India. So hate the Teraiwasis who "look" like Indians to your bigoted eyes. That's what.

Thanks Yossarian for speaking up. I appreciate that. You are an example that my voice is not against a Bahun or a Pahadiya but against injustice, as is yours.

visitingImposter: "....all of you who think a "madhesi" or a "bhote" is unfairly victimized, are intelectuals of your caste who see opportunities at every racial epithet..... why do you forget about 85% of Nepalese that live under the poverty line and complain about how much it hurt your ego when someone called you a madhesi or a bhote..."

On the other hand, we lucky few from disadvantaged backgrounds are people who have some idea why most people from our backgrounds have not been as "lucky" as us. And, if putting up with ethnicist/casteist insults would feed the hungry, I would invite showers of them, but the truth is it is that prejudice that is part of a larger belief system that makes sure little gets done in the way of poverty alleviation. And I am sick of people using the poverty in Dolpa to justify their bigotry.

Yossarian: "...there are serious isues involved with the bahun-Chhetri dominated state and the society being prejudiced against dalits in every possible way..."

Way to go.

VisitingPoster: "...True sympathizers of Teraibasi know that Teraibasi don't care about Hindi. They care about their day to day business, their women suffering, they suffering from Indian dacoits, and they care about immunization...."

I have friends from the Terai, and they move on when insulted in the streets, they put up with it, and economic growth is all we need! Give me a break.

"....I dont' give a damn about Hindu or Hindi or whatever your baggage is. I care about my country and my people...."

Define "my country," and define "my people." Obviously you don't include the Madhesis.

"....the day Teraibasi vote overwhelming for "Hindi" language, come to me, and I will be the first one to support that...."

That is all you need to do. That is it.

Yossarian: "...i have been told by many teraibasis in my conversations with them that Hindi would greatly benefit them in many ways..."

conclusor: "...7. Whatever Bhagat says are not right..."

Not a particular point(s), but "whatever!"

VisitingPoster's personal attack of Yossarian is despicable.

VisitingPoster: "...I have more Teraibasi friends that probably a lot of you guys..."

Who is this idiot!

Suggestion to Yossarain: "...The coalition of native language speakers (I do not know what it is called) came up with a proposal of three language policy for Nepal during thier first national conference a few years ago..."

Which three?

Yossarian: "...Parmendra dai asks somewhere in this thread-- why not a Bharatbarsha? or, --why be stuck on a conflict between anIndian and a Nepali idetity?..."

That was meant as a rhetocial statement. Although I do believe an ultimate South Asian economic union is the only real cure to Nepal's land-lockedness.

Prawin, if you are a recent BNKS graduate applying to US colleges, I urge you to do so. You have the intellect, the guts to make it. You make a lot of sense. Good luck with your higher education. Feel free to e-mail me. Your command of not only the language but the way you handle arguments -- great.

"...ultimately, all cultural, gender-based and racial identity must be deconstructed, but before that, each must be thoroughly understood. and i firmly believe that the existing 'identity' is something that the so called 'Janjati' will forever resent. a new identity as a state is necessary..."

A comment of much depth. Shows you think deep and wide.

VisitingPoster: "I spoke Nepali from my childhood, and I don't think I was conqueror."

Well, do you love your language, Nepali? Do you think the non-Nepali speakers do as well?