TheLostTribes

The "Lost" Tribes - Ephraim? Goyim? - Both?

This "dogma" causes division I think, as people are too emotionally attached to their own position(s) to examine it circumspectly. It's kind of like when you find out something that you always thought was true your whole life is false, and it shakes your world view :-)

Let's examine some things that can be shown to be facts....

Israel, the Northern Tribes mostly as a whole were in the Diaspora, and their location was known in the first centuries AD/ce, (I say: mostly as a whole, as "some" came back, and "some" are shown being in Israel besides Benjamin, Judah, Simeon and Levi later.*[See Notes below]) Their identity was lost; however: I believe it is still represented in greater Israel to a lesser degree. Many are not identified with Israel, but were lost amongst the Goyim/Gentiles.- HaShem ONLY knows who they are for sure. The two sticks are both together today (as no one except the Cohanim know for sure who they are) - and yet the two sticks are shown being brought together still - as the lost come in with the Goyim who come into the Congregation of Messiah, - both in Gentile expression and Messianic-Judaic expression, as grafted into the root of Israel. One could perhaps say then of the "grafted-in" branches: some are wild, and (HaShem knows): some are "natural" that were grafted into (so to speak) the Wild Olive Tree when they went into dispersion, so that they had taken on the identity of the "wild" and not the natural; so that they were cut-off - but have not (in a way) lost their identity as natural, (noting their parents who left of course), but have grown up in the "wild" so to speak.

So far nothing too controversial; but then the problems then start...

Some say that if you are a Believer and start going to a Messianic Congregation that you HAVE to be Israel. - This is not so. While I'm sure there are "SOME" who are Israel (HaShem knows who) - there are others who are not. Else how could the Goyim of the "wild olive tree" be grafted into Israel during the 1st two centuries AD/ce in the first place! And what about the Scripture that talks about the Goyim bringing their glory into Yerushalayim during the 1000 year reign of Messiah - etc.... Or that as AVRAM believed HaShem (as a Goy/Gentile) and became AVRAHAM and the father of "the Jews" by Covenant through FAITH - so to do the Believing Goyim become children of Believing Avraham! All kinds of doctrines get skewed if ALL people who go to a Messianic Congregation suddenly HAVE to be Israel. Even history and the Talmud and the New Covenant show us that their were two types of GOYIM - (not Israel in Diaspora) - that became Ger and Gar Tzadukim. Those who converted, and those who were "proselytes of the gate": ones who kept Torah, yet did not become circumcised and thus part of Israel in the flesh. That of course addresses conversion, but the point is they were GOYIM. Also, if the wild are really ALL natural, then there would be no point of the darash that Rav Sha'ul gives and thus no need to identify the wild as "grafted and commonwealth" AFTER they are grafted in - if they're only a re-grafting of the natural who "thought" they were wild! This sounds rather convoluted I must admit, but honestly think this through and I think that it will become clear.

So... what can one say then? - Some in the Root of Israel are Natural that Believed and remained; some are grafted in of the wild Nations/Goyim that hold to a more Gentile expression (as in we see in Corinthians); some are grafted in that are of the wild Nations/Goyim that embrace Torah-Judaism but remain "Gentile" (in the good sense of the word Goyim - as simply meaning: 'Nations') - as we see in: the "Gar Tzadukim" or "Proselytes Of The Gate" as Talmud talks about and the New Covenant notes; some are grafted in that were amongst the wild that were really natural way back with Israel (these may or may not embrace Torah fully however, depending on how closely they listen to HaShem) - and some of this group "MAY" -(and I stress MAY) be led to become circumcised to re-identify with Israel. BUT: this must ONLY come about as the Ruach HaKodesh/(Holy Spirit) leads, and NOT on their own volition. Otherwise they are violating the injunction: ...in whatsoever state you are in, there remain (paraphrased).

Although we do have examples in Scripture, such as Timothy. Now, this group needs to also be further broken down into two categories: those who are of "Judah/Jews" who find out that they are Jewish and their parents/grandparents didn't tell them - or didn't even know themselves - (there are been several cases of this that I've seen); - and the second group that "MAY" be of Israel from the dispersion who don't/can't know except from direct revelation from HaShem. Why do I say "direct" revelation? - Because there are those who say that you are automatically of Israel, yet this can be show to be false premise. In this case, the best advice I could give is: MAKE SURE YOU ARE HEARING FROM HASHEM! - and not just your own desire to be "natural" Israel, so that your emotions in this matter will not allow you to examine the possibility that you are a Righteous Gentile Believer - a "Gar" Tzadukim" (yet not a literal "Ger") - one who desires to keep Torah, but are grafted-in from the wild, and not specifically "Israel", yet still part of the "Commonwealth of Israel", a child of Avraham, and in the Root of Israel in Messiah Yeshua. Remember, Israel is brought back to the land 'from' the Nations, but Israel is not 'the Nations' - else the whole world would be "Israel". When the Goyim are grafted into Israel, they are "of" Israel, and a child of believing Avraham - but are admonished to fear lest they boast against the Natural Branches. That is one danger one can enter into if one is not circumspect in this "dogma".

So, everyone is right :-) - unless you say that your slant alone is right, then you're probably wrong :-)

Shalom

*Notes:
{via an Email by Joah S. on: [email protected]}

{...}
Nachmanides discusses these prophecies and distinguishes
between them. Just as part of Judah was exiled with the northern tribes so
too did some people from the ten tribes remain with Judah. Their
descendants are now to be found amongst the present-day Jews. The
overwhelming majority of the Ten Tribes however were exiled by the
Assyrians and NEVER returned though they are destined to do so. The Ten
Tribes (said Nachmanides in ca. 1260 CE) are still in Tserefath (Gaul and
its region) and "at the ends of the north."
{...}
They said in the Midrash Seder Olam: Of those who came into the Land in
the time of Ezra the whole community together numbered 42,360. The total
whose names are recorded however only numbered 30,360. What happened
therefore to the missing 12,000? These were those from the other Tribes who
came up with Ezra.
{...}
It also appears from the simple meaning of the text, that before the exile
of the northern country by Senacherib there were gathered into the cities
of Judah people from the neighboring tribes of Menasseh, Ephraim, and
Simeon and these then dwelt in the heritage of Judah. Or . This explains
what was said concerning King Josiah, "They delivered the money that was
brought into the house of God which the Levites that kept the doors had
gathered of the hand of Manasseh and Ephraim, and of all the remnant of
Israel, and of all Judah and Benjamin" (2-Chronicles 34; 9). Prior to that
time in the period King Asa it was written, "And he gathered all Judah and
Benjamin, and the strangers with them out of Ephraim and Menasseh, and out
of Simeon: for they fell to him out of Israel in abundance when they saw
the LORD his God was with him" (2-Chronicles 15; 9).
{...}
Those from the Tribes of Ephraim and Shimeon from Israel that were
present (2-Chronicles 35;18) with Judah were they who dwelt in the Land of
Judah or perhaps to some degree also those who had dwelt in their own
territories adjoining Judah and had fled to Judah. They are referred (in
2 Chronicles 35;18) to in a general sense as "from Israel" and not by their
specific tribes since they represented only a small portion of their tribe. These
are they who returned under Ezra with the Jews from Babylon. They were not
expressly mentioned by their tribes since they were attached to Judah. They
all settled in the cities of Judah. There was no Redemption for the Ten
Tribes who remained in exile.
{...}
[Another authority however, Tosefot in Arakin 32;a, says that, "from each and
every tribe a few returned"]. These few were not enough to be termed a tribe in
their own right or even part of a tribe - due to their minority position they were
included amongst the two tribes of Judah and Benjamin and dwelt in their
cities

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