Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country
Index
I was over at the IMDb and one of the goofs stated was "The equipment to catalogue the gaseous anomalies was on Sulu's ship not Kirk's" or something like that. According to the Chronology and what was inferred by the movie, most Federation ships including the Enterprise-A were fitted with the equipment for the studies.
How can they see the energy wave? If it's traveling faster than light then they can not see it with light, because it is performing the Picard Maneuver. So do the ship's sensors convert subspace energy and put it on the viewscreen as visible light?
Kirk says, "We've done our bit for King and country." What King? What country? Why would a man from 23rd century Ohio use an old English clich�?
When trying to save Gorkon, McCoy says, "Jim, I don't even know his anatomy!" Really? What about The Trouble With Tribbles when examining Arne Darvin? "Jim, this man is a Klingon!"
Colonel West is a Changeling! The Founders have already infiltrated the Federation! Aaaah! (Boy, Rene Aberjonois doesn't even get a credit in this film. Talk about a conspiracy.)
Throughout the film the Closed Captioning spells Kronos as Kronos, but in the trial when speaking Klingon it is spelled Qo'noS.
When they automatically assumed the cloaked ship was Klingon instead of Romulan, I wondered why, especially with the bad blood between those two races. Then I wondered if that bad blood has even happened yet? At this point in Star Trek history are the Klingons and Romulans still allies?
Valeris says, "Two pairs of gravity boots", but earlier they were referred to as magnetic boots.
Why would the galley have an easily accessible phaser locker? Is the food so bad the chef has to be armed?
Here is a really grungy 47. I admit it is really a stretch and some of you may groan, but here it is. Martia says to Kirk, "Go to lift 7 for mining duty." (I shall now duck while you throw things at me.)
Possible 47. Chekov is holding a slide with Klingon blood on it, but I couldn't tell if it said 744 or 144.
The big teeth on the doglike creature would seem to keep it from swallowing large food.
If it can kill at close range then why is the setting called stun?
Why would the Klingons and the Federation hold peace talks near the Romulan border?
So why can't the sensors detect the source of Chang's transmission?
Why not just fire a wide volley of photon torpedoes at the area that the Klingon torpedo comes from? Cloaked or not the ship is bound to be hit.
Kirk says, "This ship and her history will shortly become the care of another crew.", but earlier it was said that the Enterprise would be decommissioned. No other crew will care for the Enterprise-A.
I wonder if the Organians knew that Praxis would explode and lead to the Klingons and Federation becoming allies?
In the ST Encyclopedia entry for Dimitri Valtane (Sulu's science officer), it is noted the Valtane died prior to the end of ST6 (this was established in "Flashback". The authors jokingly comment that he must have had a twin brother, since we see Valtane standing on the bridge of the Excelsior at the end of the movie.
Well... maybe he *DID* have a twin brother! Watch the opening scene, when Sulu's tea cup first starts rattling. Valtane is standing right beside him. then the camera angle changes, and Valtane (or his twin brother) is behind two other people. Another shot change establishes that the other Valtane is still by Sulu.
(Yes, in reality, this is just a continuity glitch, but as Phil is so fond of saying in the Guides, "I don't deal in reality")
I just thought that it was funny that two separate mistakes work together to explain each other.
I wonder if Marta was one of the Changeling infants sent out by the Founders?
And try this on for size - on Rura Penthe, the real Kirk was killed! Marta eventually felt guilty for impersonating Kirk, and thus volunteered for the dangerous task of fixing whatever in Generations. After "dying" on Veridian III, she makes it to Earth where she is employed by Admiral Leyton to help heighten the conspiracy theory in "Paradise Lost" (donates "goo" in lieu of Sisko's blood, pretends to be O'Brien, etc.) Ooo-Wee-Ooo
Wonder what the writers could do with this?
Just rewatched this one again. Boy I forget how much the end reminded me of "The Manchurian Candidate."
Is Spock still first officer of the Enterprise-A? In the scene where Kirk speaks to Gorkon aboard Kronos One from the bridge, Chekov starts out in the captain's chair, and when Kirk arrives, he goes back down to the navigator's station. Kirk leaves and Chekov goes back to the captain's chair (right when he says "Guess who's coming to dinner?") even though Spock was still standing there. Maybe on the Enterprise-A whoever was assigned to bridge watch remains at the captain's chair unless the captain shows up?
Spock is not the first officer. Spock is no longer officially part of the Enterprise's crew.
Where did you get that idea from?
Because Chekov is way overdue for a promotion and there is this "Ambassador Spock" thing mentioned in the latter parts of NextGen that would be explained nicely by him not being attached to the Enterprise.
The only reason I found it weird is because it is not mentioned in the dialogue that Spock is no longer part of the crew.
yeesh. "this is my last voyage on this vessel *as a member of her crew*"
any other questions?
Not to mention Kirk introduces Spock as his first officer when the klingons come aboard.
Sorry, Kirk wasn't killed on Rura Penthe. Martia bought the farm. Kirk and McCoy still had chains on their legs but Martia didn't...
Impressive. A little obsessive attention to detail, as well, but impressive.
This might have been mentioned before but I this film it is stated that Klingons have no tear ducts, if this is true wouldn't their eyeballs dry out in not conditions & they would go blind? Or do Klingon eyes work in another way? No wonder Dr McCoy had problems with Klingon anatomy!
Auberjonois doesn't get a credit because his scenes were taken out of the theatrical version, rendering the plot slightly confusing.
OK, this nit is secondhand, from a Classic Trekkie friend of mine, so it may be a little confusing. Bear with me. . .
Tuvok served on the Excelsior under Captain Sulu. This is shown in both this film and a Voyager episode. However--in the Voyager series, Tuvok is a Vulcan. In this film, he does not have pointed ears: he is human!
Also, I heard a rumor that male Vulcan names rarely start with the letter "T". Can someone confirm or deny that?
I think you're thinking of Star Trek Generations where Tim Russ, the actor who plays Tuvok, was a a human Starfleet officer on the bridge of the Enterprise-B when Kirk and co went for the launch of the ship. This character is *not* Tuvok. IIRC, Tim Russ does not appear in this film, although he plays a human mercenary in the NextGen ep Starship Mine and appeared as Klingon in a DS9 ep.
Male Vulcan names started with S and ended with K since Spock's day but Tuvok comes much later, meaning they had to move on to the next letter - hence Taurik in Next Gen and Vorik in Voyager.
Eventually we'll hit W with the next generation or so of Vulcans and so on.
But why would Vulcans follow a human alphabet?! ; )
They probably don't. It's just the prounonciation of his name spelled (or sounded) out in English letters works out to "Tuvok". This is like in the same way that in many Asian launguages they have letters that we have no equivalent for and vice versea, but we do have words and leters that sound alike but mean diffrent things.
The Vulcan spelling of Tuvok and Spock may both begin witht he same leter for example but have diffrent letters for the second letter which totally chnages the way their prounced. For example Spock in Vulcan could be $%^(*& while Tuvok could be $#@*))*! . haveing % and having # as the second letter would result in a totally diffrent word with a totally diffrent meaning.
I know it's off topic, but today is Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country's 8th Anniversary. It's hard for me to believe that eight, that's right -- EIGHT years ago was the last time the original crew was together... so far one of the actors has passed away... I say it's time for a reunion folks! Happy Anniversary Star Trek VI!
December 6, 1991 Release Date
A date that will live in infamy??
I'll never forget that one either... maybe they should start a WWII board some where....
Interestingly, if Star Trek: Phase II ever got off the ground, there would have been a Vulcan called Xon, which would have thrown the naming system out the window.
Wasn't Xon the Vulcan who got transportered to death in ST:TMP?
Yep.
And IIRC in DC Comics first Star Trek series, Xon was the name of Saavik's mate.
Richard Davies -- the Klingon tear duct line, like the Pepto-Bismol blood, is another of those things that pretty much disappeared from canon. I remember reading a comment from one or another of the writers about it... In any case, Martok has a line in "Soldiers of the Empire" about how he occasionally "wept like an old woman" while spending two years in a Dominion prison...
IIRC, the Vulcan that got scrambled in the transporter was Commander Sonak.
Couple of nits...
1) Why was Excelsior traveling home at full Impulse? Why weren't they at warp?
2) When Kirk is recording the fatal log entry, the one that is used against him at trial, why is the door wide open if he is making a personal log entry?
3) Did he ever say "personal log" on that entry, or just "Captain's Log"? If it's the Captain's Log, it's not particularly bright to be putting one's prejudices on record in a semi-public log!
4) If he didn't say "personal log", then he shouldn't be surprised when it used against him at trial.
1) Re. the Excelsior- if it had been travelling at warp it would have been going much faster than the explosion wave from Praxis and wouldn't have encountered or reported on it... (Maybe they were going home at warp and just conveniently slowed to impulse for a bit...)
2) Having said all that, there is a discrepancy between Sulu's log and his words to the ND Crewman just before the wave hits. In his log, he says they're going home, but you can just about make out the words "According to this, we've completed our survey of this entire sector..." (i.e. they were still woirking on the survey, not heading home- unless they were still working on the survey on the way home...)
3) Kirk called it his personal log in the scene with Valeris, but when he recorded it he prefixed it as "Captain's Log." (I suspect he forgot that whilst talking to Valeris or else there was a script typo... wink wink!)
Well don't forget - the wording is different when he records it and when it's played back at his trial (something like "I could never forgive them" vs. "I've never been able to forgive them....")
That mistake actually appears in my copy of the script! I suspect errors like it can be chalked up to the fact that the typist is working over pages and pages and pages and doesn't really have the time to check over...
I think adding Colonel West to the conspiracy
was VERY clever! His name never came up during
Spock's mind meld with Valeris, so no one saw
it coming! West dressed as a Klingon to make it look like a Klingon shot the Federation President,
thereby upsetting the Federation, thereby the
Federation declaring war on the Klingons, thereby
exterminating the Klingons from the galaxy.
The plot is deeper than most people think!
Listen to Adm. Cartright at the closed meeting
I think that proves my point.
Why was the Romulan Ambassador at both meetings with the Federation President?
Simple...it was part of the compsiracy against the Klingons!
He wanted to hear the Klingon Ambassador's complaint then agree with his interpretation of the law. (Boot-licking)
THEN
He wanted to hear about the plan to rescue Kirk
then say "They are vunerable"
(His real intentions)
The whole scene is just plain juicy.
Here's a lovely and interesting note....
In the dining area, you can see a picture
of Sarek and to the right of that is a picture
of Abraham Lincoln!!!!!!!
You can see it when Scotty goes over to the vent.
Maybe Chekov was literally just 'keeping watch'. Maybe Spock was busy with something else, and said, 'Hey, Pavel, keep an eye on things for us, will ya? There's a good boy.'
(Maybe Spock was in the Little Vulcan's Room?) :)
Here's an "cute moment" from STVI...
When Kirk orders 1/4 impulse power to leave spacedock, Valeris complies.....the next
scene is in engineering where we see the staff
standing there with their mouths hanging open,
looking at Scotty who's standing there, smiling
broadly with his arms crossed.
Nit.....
Is it REALLY a good idea to have the crew
search their own quarters during a murder
investigation????
Wouldn't this be a job for security?
And what happened to the other 3 gravity boots?
They only found 1 single boot!!!!!
Maybe the other boots were in similarly useless places... 'Well, Crewman Dax has that one, and we found the others in the lockers of that Horta lieutenant...'
Here's an interesting note...
Burke & Samno really knew what they were doing...
In "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield" some
kind of alarm went off that was sent to the bridge when the transporter was in use.
Burke & Samno must of disabled that alarm
so they could beam off / on the Enterprise
at will...without being noticed.
"HISTORICAL NOTE:"
Martia was the last woman Kirk kissed.
I loved McCoy's reaction too.
I'll bet he's saying to himself, "Not this again"
Surely he kissed someone between Star Trek VI and Generations, given his fantasy life that appears for him in the Nexus?
Let me rephrase that....
Martia is the last woman Kirk kissed that we
saw on the big screen.
How do we know that Martia was real woman? Maybe her species is sexless?
Well, Kirk acted like she was a woman.
Interestingly enough, this movie treats us to three versions of Martia that speak with the same voice:
1) sexy alien female
2) ugly Chewbacca-thingy
3) little girl
and one that speaks with Kirk's voice because it looks like Kirk.
In itself, it is shows how brilliant this shape-shifter is, although it doesn't explain why the copy of the script I purchased a few years ago uses the name "MARTIA'S VOICE" at ALL scenes featuring the alternate egos!
(Except for one point just before Martia's death where it reads:
More fighting between Kirk and "Kirk" - they clinch.
KIRK: I can't believe I kissed you...
"KIRK": Must've been your life-long ambition!)
Kirk only *acted* like the creature was a woman when it took on the *shape* of one - that doesn't necessarily mean it is female. It could take on the shape of any sex.
I wonder if Kirk pondered that.
Was is a he or a she that I kissed?
Only Jerry Springer could settle a debate as wierd as this one.
I'm no Jerry Springer but as you recall,
as they were in the elevator going to mining
duty, Martia says, "They don't take girls"
in a very feminine voice.
So she became a guy momentarily to escape
with Kirk and McCoy
Anyone else notice that Martia's furs change when she does? Then they must be a part of her, right? So she's not actually wearing anything. If she's wandering around in that cold naked, then she probably doesn't feel the cold...at any rate, why is she bothering simulating furs?
Kirk claims that the universal translator's been confiscated (yet not that patch Spock slapped on him...hm...). Does that mean that the Klingon guard who introduced them to Rura Penthe was speaking English? That was nice of him.
Speaking of that guy, he claims there are no guard towers. Yet he's quite clearly on one when he's watching Kirk and Big Blue slug it out.
Speaking of the Klingon guard, his lines are almost exactly the same as those of the commandant of the Japanese prison camp in "The Bridge on the River Kwai."
"Work well, and you will be treated well. Work badly and you will suffer the consequences."
I actually like the Klingon's lines somewhat better, more blunt. Of course, the entire movie
is just full of reference to other movies and, most of all, Shakespeare (like everything Chang says).
I felt it was actually a bit much. The literary allusions in TOS and TWOK were much subtler, and thus much more effective.
Am I the only person who thinks the editing of the dinner party scene seemed incredibly choppy - basically one line out of context after another? For instance, it's obvious that when Chang said "To be or not to be" in Klingon, he followed it up immediately with the English. But in editing they threw a few stray exchanges in the middle.
And is it just me, or does that Klingon Guard bear a more than passing resemblance, physically and vocally, to one Dr Ira Graves of early TNG fame?
(Who himself bears a more than passing resemblance to the alien captain Quatai in the Voyager episode "Bliss"....)
Why does Colonel West shows his plans to the President on big paper sheets? Don't they have computers and viewscreens for this sort of thing?
The doors of the President's office look like the doors to Ten Forward in NextGen. (What species is he, by the way?)
When Gorkon dies, none of the Klingons howl to warn of the spirit of the warrior that is now entering the afterlife (this was established in the first NextGen season in 1987; the film was made in 1991)
It's interesting a woman can become Chancellor of the High Council so easily, given L'Ursa and B'Etor desperately tried to find another male in their house to stand for the position.
Is Colonel Worf related to the Worf we all know in some way?
Spock talks about getting older but doesn't he have at least another 80 years ahead of him? Surely he's only suffering from Vulcan middle age?
Did he seem a little emotional in this film, especially in his anger directed towards Valeris?
Kirk mentions there's a bit of humanity in everyone and Spock finds it insulting, failing to acknowledge he is at least half human.
When Kirk makes the personal log that is his downfall, Valeris interrupts him. When did he tell the computer to stop recording?
The Jem'Hadar/Dr Who Destroyer blue alien thing has already been mentioned but the alien with the green bulbous head reminded me a little of Frido in Star Wars and the big ugly one that picked a fight with Kirk at the very start was reminiscent of the Kinatowawi tribe in Red Dwarf.
An alarm goes off when unauthorised use of a phaser occurs - so every time an alien infiltrates the ship and, say a chef in the Enterprise's galley grabs a handy one as seen in the film, the alarm goes on and everyone comes running?
Why didn't the assassins dispose of the boots through an airlock?
When Bird of Prey was "accidentally" fired upon, why didn't Kirk think to beam over the Klingons as soon as possible - especially if surrender was his only choice. Mind you, there would be a lot of angry Klingons on board. But why not beam Gorkon to McCoy's sickbay, where there are more facilities and medical staff?
My video has bits in not seen in the movie release - what were these exactly?
>Why didn't the assassins dispose of the boots through an airlock?>
Some on would probably have seen them.
To answer some of your questions...
"Is Colonel Worf related to the Worf we all know in some way?"
I believe that he is Lt Commander Warf's grandfather. I don't remember where I heard that though.
"Why didn't the assassins dispose of the boots through an airlock?"
It looks like they are always on so the vacuum might not be enough to pull them outside. Also, opening the airlock will set off an alarm so it will be easy to figure out "who done it."
"My video has bits in not seen in the movie release - what were these exactly?"
I believe it was the whole Colonal West scene in the presedent's office, where he discusses "Operation Retrieve"
I guess we know why the Presedent in the 24th Century has a smaller office than his 23rd Century counterpart, Picard wanted the office for his bar.
Could the boots have been transported into space? Or would that have set off another alarm? You'd think Valeris would be able to avoid triggering alarms if she can fake the torpedo manifest.
Not only did the President's office look like ten-forward, but if you look quick when Colonel West comes in, you can see a NextGen-labeled door in the hallway.
Also, when we see the President's office in DS9, it is much smaller! At some point some President must have decided to change it!
Well by the time of DS9 it's 80-odd years later, maybe they moved?
Weird edit:
After Kirk visits Spock in his quarters,the camera focuses on the building at Camp Khitomer.
You hear the President beginning his speech...
but wait....there are people still outside carrying banners into the building.
In the trailer for this movie, we see the President escorting Azetbur into the main hall. I think that was the scene that was cut out.
One thing I always wondered was, Chang's BoP fires several torps at the enterprise before it's shields fail and it's hull is compromised. While they are taking hits before the shields fail they do get banged up but are okay.
When the Enterprises shield fail why doesent change aim for it's warp nacels or it's warp core?
He wanted to kill Kirk and crew and the longer he delayed until doing so the greater chance that they would be able to detect him.
The excelcior warps on in and Chang fires a single torp at the excelcior and the ship gets knocked over practiclly. The excelcior is supposed to be something like 2-3 times as powerfull as the enterprise so it should have been able to take a lot more then it did.
I always wondered how Scotty was able to get up to where the assasin was so quickly, and how did he know the guy was there.
I think the reason the Enterprise could not fire in the direction the tropoedoes were comming from is that they might have hit the planet and could not risk that.
The only possible explanation for how Kirk knew somebody would be up in the triangular window area is that before beaming down, Spock must have
scanned the building and noticed someone was "out of place".
I thought it was VERY interesting to see that it was Col. West...his name never popped up in Spock's mind meld with Valeris...he must have been a "last minute convert"
Realistically, it may have to do with the fact that, in the theatrical release, Col. West's scenes were never shown. If this one name had shown up, with no other mention on screen, then the audience would sit there, asking "Who the hell is Col. West?" Of course, if the mind-meld weren't a single, continuous shot, they could simply re-insert a shot of the name being mentioned, but noooooooooooo.
It's also possible that Valeris wasn't privy to every single conspirator, just the leaders.
Perhaps Col. West's name was in the original
shot, but the editors eliminated it so the audience would be surprised as well by the appearance of Col. West as being one of the assassins....I thought it was very clever of West
to dress up as a Klingon...that way, if the plan
succeeded, the Klingons would get the blame for
assassinating the Federation President, thereby,
provoking an intergalatic conflict....that whole
scene was just too juicy.
By the way....doesn't Col. West sound a lot like
Constable Odo from DS9? Hmmm. I wonder why!
This has probably been mentioned but Col. Worf's grandson looks EXACTLY like him.
Guess those genes were the dominant ones.
Gravity boots must not be standard issue on a starship, if there are only two pair of them onboard. However, Picard, Worf and the other guy go for a walk on the hull in "First Contact" wearing magnetic boots. They must have figured out they need those things on starships and stocked more of them on the Enterprise-E.
The dining room of the Enterprise-A is a redress of the briefing room set of Next Gen.
Why did TPTB use the Engineering set from Next Gen? Weren't the Engineering sets from ST-TMP or Star Trek V still up, or were those sets struck or destroyed?
Christian Slater has the walk on for two reasons-he is a major Star Trek fan, and his mother Mary Jo was the casting director (it is the first credit after the cast list.) By the way, why is Casting the first technical credit listed in films now? This was the first Trek film to do this; the name of the casting director for ST-TMP (Marvin Paige)was buried at the end of the final credit roll.
Two Kirks are better than one:
The Enemy Within
What are Little Girls Made Of
Whom Gods Destroy
Turnabout Intruder (Sandra Smith also plays Kirk)
Star Trek VI-The Undiscovered Country
If I have forgotten one, please post.
How could I forget "Mirror,Mirror?" Guess I had too much Romulan ale last night.
Adam-
You forgot that the President's office is a redress of Ten Forward.
But to answer your question: new sets cost money. Sets are almost always dismantled after use. And sometimes (like in the case of the Enterprise E Bridge sets) the sets are put in storage and then later taken out again. The Engineering set from TMP was probably dismantled and its pieces cannibalized for other sets... maybe even Trek sets (Voyager's Mess Hall is a redress of Ten Forward, Voyager's transporter pad uses some components from TOS)... after ST3, when the Enterprise was destroyed. I don't recall an Engineering set in ST5. Am I misremembering?
So it's only natural for them to use sets that are already assembled and ready for shooting. Especially when you consider that ST6 was filmed on relatively short notice.
As for credits... The order and type of credits are continually changing based on mandates and decisions made by the various unions (Remember when there were *no* ending credits in a film?).
There was an Engineering scene in Trek 6...
I know. I said I don't recall one in Trek 5.
The Enterprise-D engineering set was essentially a heavy redress of the TMP set (and it later became Voyager's engineering). However, the modifications to bring it back to the way it originally was for Trek VI would be too extensive since TNG was still in production. Same deal with the corridors, dining room, and sickbay. So I guess it was their only option, even though it looked horribly out of place (especially when you take into account that the Enterprise-A model does not have any windows that match the ones seen in the dining room).
There was an engineering scene in Trek V, but the room looked like it was simply a redress of the Jefferies Tubes seen later (when Scotty breaks Kirk and co. out of the brig).
Don't forget age. The engineering sets for ST-TMP were originally built in 1977 for the never produced "Phase II" show. We saw no engineering set in "STIII", just a close-up of Scotty allegedly speaking from "Engineering." Nick is right, the set for "STV" looked like a redress of the same Jeffries tube where Scotty later banged himself unconscious. We saw Scotty at the console only when he said "Even if I have to get out and push," when Kirk called him in Engineering.
Did anyone note that the crewman with the funny feet is named "Dax?" Could that be Curzon? It certainly is not Emony, Jadzia (definitely NOT)or Ezri.
I`ve been meaning to post this for a while, and in fact I may already have done, but, has anyone else noticed the constant leaving consoles unattended. When Chekov is away and Valeris in command NO-ONE is at helm or nav. When Valeris is taken away a female conn takes her place, then is inexplicably replaced by a male one during the battle, and then at the end no-one is there at all, with only Chekov at the nav. Do they want Sulu not to feel replaced when they hail him? Or is there a crew shortage? Which would be strange, since at the beginning there is someoen else at nav while they`re sitting in SPACEDOCK (Chekov takes over when they leave)
How many out there think Chang's portrait of Kirk during his trial as "an insubordinate, unprincipled, carreer-minded opportunist with a history of violating the chain of command whenever it suited him" a fairly accurate description? You must admit Chang had plenty of fodder to throw at Kirk to support his claim.
Everything except "career-minded". A lot of the insubordinate, unprincipled violations of the chain of command certainly didn't seem to be career advancing to me at the time...
How much time elapses between the Bird of Prey exploding and our heroes beaming down to the conference? The last time we saw the assassin, he was about ready to pull the trigger. Our friends would have to be in the transporter room in order to accomplish this...but how is that possible?
The last time we saw Kirk, Chekov & Uhura they were on the Bridge...Dr. McCoy & Spock were in the torpedo bay...Scotty was in engineering, Valeris was in the brig (I think)...how did they gather all these people together in the transporter room in such a short time?
When Kirk says "Go to impulse power for Khitomer orbit" the movie cuts to a view of the Enterprise at impulse zooming towards the planet. It looks like they're about to crash into it. Isn't that close enough for transportation?
Klingons and Federation members were working together in order to keep Klingons and Federation members from working together. Well THAT makes a whole lot of sense.
Who's in charge of Starfleet? In STIII, it was Admiral Marrow. In STIV, it looked like Admiral Cartwright was in charge. Now in STVI, it looks like the infamous "Bill" is in charge of Starfleet.
Why are the "top brass" discussing the issue of the peace treaty if the Federation has already made up its mind?
Why is Kirk sending his slowest and most out of shape ENGINEER to find and stop the assassin. Wouldn't a security officer be a better choice? In fact, ANYONE would be a better choice.
What was Valeris doing in the transporter room after the Klingons came on board? Burke and Samno start making racial slurs about Klingons and suddenly Valeris appears in a hallway. (What's that hallway doing there anyway?) She tells Burke and Samno that they have work (wink wink). They leave and she gets a sinister look on her face. What's going on here??
Why did he send Scotty? Because it was great seeing Scotty break down the door and shoot the assassin, thats why! :-)
The transporter room was also a redress of the one for Next Gen, which may be a redress of the one originally built for the movies. (Nick or Phil, please correct me if I am wrong about this.)The transporter room in Next Gen does have a corridor. It also has bigger doors than the one in the first three films. (I don't think we saw the Enterprise transporter in V, definitely not in IV.)
We saw it briefly in V. I know there is a scene where Scotty is working on the transporter console. I think we saw it again in the last act, but I'm not sure.
Yes, it was seen in V at least twice and was a redress of the NextGen room, which in turn used elements from TMP and even the ClassicTrek transporter. The only entrance in the NextGen room was the large main doors. The place where the corridor was in Trek VI was where the armory was in TNG. Although this really isn't an issue since the Enterprise-A transporter room could have a corridor there with no problem.
During the dinner, Chancellor Gorkon says, "You have not experienced Shakespere until you've heard it in the original Klingon" (language)
Excuse me....the first time we saw the Klingons was "Errand of Mercy" (TOS) and they spoke perfect English...the Klingon language didn't exist until "Star Trek the Motion Picture"
What's going on here?
He is claiming that Shakespere was a Klingon.
The Klingon language didn't exist until The Motion Picture? Are you joking?
Rene-
No joke!
The first time we heard the Klingon language was "Star Trek-the Motion Picture."
The Klingons spake perfect English before this
They MAY HAVE had a language before this,however they never used it.
I'm a nitpicker & I don't deal in reality.
By your logic, if ever the creators do a Cardassian story set in the TOS era, it must be wrong because we never saw them in TOS.
I have an easy solution to clear the Enterprise of any wrong doing right from the begining. Simply look at the visual logs of the Enterprise as it 'fired' , the two torpedo's will very clearly have not come from their torpedo bay but below them.
Not only this but also if you examine the damaged section's of the D7's hull, it will have a damage signature of Klingon torpedoes and not federation, and also it is hard to believe that a federation ship would know exactly where to fire on a Klingon ship to disable it's gravity. Only someone with a lot of knowledge of Klingon ships would know how to do this.
But then again, if they did do this then the movie would have been very short.
Rene--
I think the Cardasians do exist in the TOS era..they just didn't show up until DS9 was taken over by the Federation.
If the creators did do an episode set in the TOS era it would be interesting to see how Kirk would handle the Cardassians vs. Sisko.
No contest!
Exactly...same thing with the Klingon language...just because it didn't "show up" until TMP, doesn't mean it didn't exist in TOS.
So...why didn't they use the Klingon language in "Errand of Mercy" and the rest of the episodes where the Klingons showed up?
My guess is that Desilu put Universal Translators in every TV prior to "Star Trek" so we could understand every language from every alien that popped up.
;)
John, you used the phrase wrong.
Reality is that Klingonese (named in The Trouble With Tribbles BTW) was not created until just before filming of STMP.
Therefore we as Nitpickers would ignore this fact and assume that the Klingons spoke this language off-screen.
As for Balance Of Terror, maybe Kirk, Spock & Kang were really speaking Organian?
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
I meant Errand Of Mercy, not Balance Of Terror. Duh!
I can hear it now....
"Errand of Mercy" (out take)
Kor: Here comes Kirk again....speak English
Must be one of the Klingon laws.....
"Thou shalt not speak the Klingon language in front of humans."
This was of course "amended" by STTMP
I actually posted something about what language they were speaking on Organia a while back on the Errand Of Mercy board.
Unless I accidentally put it on the Balance Of Terror board?
Actually, in STTMP the Klingons weren't in front of Humans. They were on their own ship talking amongst themselves.
It was only later when TPTB started slipping Klingon words past the Universal Translator.
And there was that episode where Riker was aboard a Klingon ship...it seemed to imply that the Klingons were speaking English. One of the Klingons makes a comment that he doesn't trust Riker in Klingon and the Captain tells him to speak their language...and of course all those times in DS9 when Dax had to translate Klingon words....it seems the writers forget that everyone is actually speaking in their own language and the Universal translator allows everyone to understand each other.
Sure the Klingons were in front of humans in STTMP....they were in front of us on the movie screen!
;)
Remember in "Space Seed" they served celery?
Well, the celery is back in full force...you see it in the galley being prepared by the chefs during the "paging court reporter" scene
NITS:
In STII, Kirk says "the Klingons don't take prisoners"...Ok..fine...so why have a penal colony?
I mean, if a Klingon committed a crime, he'd die...right?
Also...why aren't there metal detectors at the Peace Conference....JUST TO MAKE SURE things are "OK..hunky-dory fine"..I mean..didn't it occur to someone (besides Kirk) that someone MIGHT attempt another assassination?
Aren't phasers plastic?
Also if members of the security groups were in on the conspiracy, the could have gotten the weapons around any detectors.
"the Klingons don't take prisoners"
Perhaps they don't RETURN prisioners. Scotty acted like being sent to Rura Penthe was almost a death sentance.
Curse you, Harve Bennett, for getting mixed up when you co-wrote Wrath Of Khan, and forgetting that it's the ROMULANS who don't take prisoners (as per The Deadly Years) Of course, the Klingons take prisoners, as Errand Of Mercy and Day Of The Dove show. And even in the next movie that Bennet worked on, Kruge and his boys in The Search For Spock.
The Klingon-Romulan mix-up since STIII has been a thorn in the side of the creators. They liked the "bird-of-prey" look, but didn't want to give up the "Klingon-bad-guys" edge.
I've heard that an early draft of the STIII script mentioned that the Bird Of Prey was a stolen Romulan ship, but somewhere along the way that bit was cut, or dropped.
Spock slaps a "veridian patch" on Kirk's back before he beams over to Kronos One. Is this the same planet Veridian that Kirk dies on in Generations?
In ST III the bad guys were origionaly supposed to be Romulans but the studio wanted Klingons because they were more well known. The bird-of-pray ship was already built so it became a Klingon ship.
The battle simulation for ST II was supposed to be Romulans as well. Up untill that point there had never been a reference to a Klingon neutral zone, only a Romulan one. Saavik says that they are in the Gamma Hydra system. In "The Deadly Years" the Enterprise got attacked by Romulans in the Gamma Hydra system. The diferance was the producers had footage of Klingon ships from ST-TMP but none of what a Romulan ship would look like.
Ah...ah...ah! The Romulans have ships purchased from the Klingons in "The Enterprise Incident"
According to Phil (and I agree), someone on the Bridge should've said,"Oh, yeah, intellegence reports that the Romulans have purchased Klingon ships again." If that line were inserted, it'd make perfect sense....Gamma Hydra system and all.
Why didn't the creators do it?
???????????
ST6: The Undiscovered Country was one of
the better movies they did; even so there's a
lot to nitpick about. (We've filled 2 whole web
pages on this board alone.) Ther's a nitpick
someone should've written about by now but
hasn't yet, so i'll give it a go:
This movie contains one of the most
ill-advised scenes ever writen for Star Trek:
The plot point that has to be illustrated is that
the boots couldn't have been phasered away
because it would set off an alarm. To do this
they stage a scene in the galley. The problem
is the Enterprise has no galley, never did. Just
automated food processing, meals came out
of a slot in the wall. (There was supposedly a
manual food prep kitchen on the recreation
deck.) Anyway, in the galley a crewman (a
steward?) has a big stainless steel pot of
mashed potatos and a large wire whisk in his
hands. Wouldn't the Enterprise have a big
23rd century Hobart-style machine to perform
this task? They need to feed a big crew!
Valeris takes a phaser from a nearby
weapons rack (an unlocked weapons rack? In
the GALLEY??) and without so much as
shouting "Fire in the hole" or any warning at all
vaporizes the pot--leaving the mashed potatos
and wire whisk untouched. Finally, to cap off
all the things wrong with this scene, both
Scotty and Uhura have forgotten how to use
the intercom when the alarm goes off. Instead
they come running into the galley from
wherever they were on the ship yelling, "Who
fired a phaser in here!?"
Phil commented on the galley and on the weapons rack therein in the Nitpicker's Guide.
You never know when a mashed potato may attack. That's why the weapons rack was in the galley. But be sure you kill it on the first try. There's nothing more dangerous than a wounded mashed potato.
Don't forget "Attack of the Killer Tomatoes"!
What about point-ed sticks?
NIT: At the end the Klingon Ambassador is clapping...NOTE: this is the SAME AMBASSADOR from STIV who said, "There will be no peace as long as Kirk lives"
When did this guy mellow out?
I'm surprised he wasn't "in" on the plot to kill Kirk!
I added this subject because the STVI message board is (was) down....
This subject & all the messages may be "assimilated" into the former discussion(s) on the "Star Trek Movies" board
It has been noted that Chekov erroneously made a statement about Russian epic and "Cinderella"...well...he's half-way right....
There is a Russian ballet called "Cinderella" with music by Sergei Prokofiev
The music from the final battle reminded me of "Mars the Bringer of War" from Gustav Holst's "The Planets"
"Valeris" is not a Vulcan name at all! Several classic episodes and most books state that Vulcan women have names starting with T' (T'Pel, T'Pring etc.). (Yes, there's Saavik, but in the books she's identified as a half-Romulan raised in the Empire, so she wouldn't have a Vulcan name.) I read that the actress - can't remember her name - chose the name herself by combining the one of a Greek goddess (Eris) with "val" to make it sound more alien. It sounds nice, but it just doesn't fit into the scheme. T'Eris or something would have been better.
I thought Vulcan women only have the T' names if they're married.
Or betrothed.
The Vulcan gunrunner from "The Maquis" pt. I was named Sakonna.
Netrat (I'm the one with the Valeris comment, accidentally put it as "anonymous"):
No, I don't think they have to be married - in "Amok Time", Spock's wife-to-be is called T'Pau, I think. (Or T'Pring, but it was definitely one of those names.)
Come to think of it, the Vulcan in Voyager is called Tuvok ... Well, perhaps the thing about women's names starting with T and men's names starting with S is not so strict, but still I've never heard of a Vulcan name - male or female - starting with any other letter than those two.
Guess you never saw Vorik in Voyager then.
Male Vulcan names have generally be S(vowel)(consonant)(vowel)k, then T as the Star Trek timeline moved on and then V.
As pointed out above, if the Vulcan woman is either *betrothed* or married, the T at the start applies - but it's T followed by an apostrophe (T'Pau, T'Ping).
I never watch Voyager if I can avoid it.
So you suggest that Vulcans chose their names out of the alphabeth ("then T as the Star Trek timeline moved on and then V")? Only why should they use the HUMAN alphabeth (or that of humans living in the western and southern part of Earth)? Also, Surak - the founder of the modern Vulcan society - was WAY before Spock and still has a name starting with the same letter.
It sure was great seeing Uhura's (Nichelle Nichols) legs in this movie...the problem is...Janice Rand (Grace Lee Whitney) is also a communications officer (Excelsior) and she's wearing slacks! Why didn't they creators allow Whitney to show off her gorgeous legs again too?
Hey, I didn't invent the rules of naming Vulcans - there's a guide in The Making of Star Trek by Gene Roddenberry and Stephen E. Whitfield and I'm sure it's been revised.
Why follow the human alphabet? Humans make the series, I guess...
Wasn't the Vulcan science officer who got transported to death in ST:TMP named Xon?
Actually his name was Commander Sonak. But if I'm not mistaken the actor who played the space station commander was going to play Xon in the aborted "Star Trek II" television series.
>>>The problem is the Enterprise has no galley, never did. Just automated food processing, meals came out of a slot in the wall.<<<
Actually, the galley is mentioned in "Charlie X"; Kirk asks the chef to make the meatloaf look like Thanksgiving turkey, and later the chef pages Kirk to tell him that the meatloaf he put into the ovens actually turned into turkeys (presumably Charlie's doing).
Does the concept of "Klingon defense attorney" strike anyone else as odd? Wouldn't it be more warrior-like for the plaintiff and defendant to settle the dispute themselves with bat'leths, rather than hiring somebody to talk his way out of it?
The name Xon later turned up in DC Comics version of Star Trek as Saavik's betrothed Vulcan. Of course, that's non-canonical.
Yes, Bela, it is odd. I would expect a Klingon defense attorney to be more like a hired mercenary who fights for a client who is unable to fight.
Here's me again. So what you say is that a) the T' is not a part of the name and b) that Vulcans choose the first letter of their name by following the alphabeth (correct me if I'm wrong).
Only this would mean that Spock's bride in Amok Time is A LOT older than him (since her name starts, apart from the T', with P) and also that she's much older than Sarek and even Surak
Also, the whole theory would explain why there are Vulcan names starting with V and T in Voyager, BUT NOT why there's one in STVI, especially since Valeris is much younger than Spock. And her name is much too long anyway. As far as I'm informed, there are no Vulcan names with more than two syllables in either of the series.
WEll, I'm prepared to leave it at that, unless someone wants to discuss the topic any further. :-)
Yours
netrat
I think you're confusing what the creator's planned to do with a Cannonical source.
If they had stated onscreen that Vulcan names follow this convention (S, 5 letters, 1 syllable for males, T'P for females), then the T & V names would be nits. As it is it's just something that someone down the line realized limited the number of possible names, and that would be illogical. ;-)
>>Valeris takes a phaser from a nearby weapons rack and vaporizes the pot--leaving the mashed potatoes and wire whisk untouched.
I'm amazed at the versatility of the phaser. It can vaporize the pot and leave the mashed potatoes and the whisk untouched. I wonder if it can also vaporize all the flesh off a being and leave the muscle, bone and organs. (eeeuwww!)
Or better yet, vaporize all the clothing off a being and leave them naked! (embarrassing, to say the least)
Just think of what Dr. Hannibal Lecter would do with that kind of phaser.
When McCoy is attending to the badly injured Gorkon, he says "Jim, I don't even know his anatomy". Didn't McCoy identify the physically altered Klingon in "The Trouble With Tribbles" by noticing that his organs and physiology were all wrong? That sounds like knowing Klingon anatomy to me.
Oops, I just noticed Keith Alan Morgan made the same statement way back in July 1999. Pardon my lack of industriousness before posting.
Just a thought...
General Chang, having praised Shakespeare in "the original Klingon," quotes _Hamlet_, _Henry IV part 1_, _The Merchant of Venice_, and _Julius Caesar_ (in that order). In fact, he gets a good deal of his material from _Hamlet_, as do Gorkon and Kirk with "the undiscovered country" biz. The general impression given is that Chang is quite fond of that particular play.
Why, in the name of Bob?????
Hamlet is a prince who refuses to avenge his father's death. He's a procrastinator and a waffle in the first degree, and his inaction leads to the deaths of Ophelia, Laertes, Gertrude and several other reasonably worthy characters. What on earth does a Klingon see in _Hamlet_ that makes him so fond of it? The main character is the antithesis of everything Klingon!
(The other plays I have listed, incidentally, deal with many conflicts faced in classical Klingon society and have every reason to be Klingon bestsellers.)
He also quotes _Henry V_, I think, and one or two others I may be forgetting. So far no other problem plays. Lea, confirm?
Possibly the fact that by not doing what a Klingon should do everything goes wrong. The Klingons may consider it a tragedy because if he had acted as a Klingon everything would have worked out fine.
I wonder if Klingon Hamlet is set prior to the time of Kahless, (or perhaps at the end Kahless arrives & wipes everybody out?)
As for Julius Ceaser... seems a little too Romulan for Klingon tastes, what with all the double dealing & manipulation. Although, perhaps the Klingons see it as a metaphor for the failed Klingon/Romulan Alliance?
What I wonder is how the works of Shakespeare were accepted as being Klingon? (Assuming the 'original Klingon' line wasn't a joke.) Did a Klingon come across the works of Shakespeare, translate them & then pass them off as his work, or possibly, offer them as a new translation of some forgotten Klingon text?
"The Tragedy of Khamlet, Son of the Emperor of Qo'nos" is available in your local bookstore, if you wish to read the original Klingon.
Here's one everyone missed.:
KAM, Thursday, July 15, 1999 - 06:16 am:
Why would a man from 23rd century Ohio use an old English cliché?
Kirk is from Iowa, not Ohio, KAM. He just works in outer space.
That's just my point, KAM! It's a no-brainer! Hamlet has no redeeming Klingon qualities about him and isn't even evil enough to be an anti-hero. He's not a tragedy, he's a laughingstock.
I kinda saw the big Klingon issues in Julius Caesar to be honor vs. policy. Brutus tries to uphold his honor and serve the Empire by doing what might be thought of as a dishonorable act. He thinks he's really acted honorably, but it turns out that he's fallen in with a gang of double-dealing dishonorablt politico creeps who use him for their own ends and eventually lead him to a tragic end.
Of course, there's the awful scene in "CivStory" where Worf goes back in time and changes history by helping Julius Caesar slay his attackers, all in the name of honor.
Perhaps the Klingons view "Hamlet" as a comedy?
Nope, the Klingon Academy published the official Klingon-English version, and it's titled a tragedy. See my post 3 posts above.
>>What is the deal with these gaseous anomalies, anyway? Don't the writers know of any other vaguely cool-sounding astronomical phenomena Starfleet might be interested in? (by kerriem - lifted from Nitpicking the Classic Guide)<<
This post caused me to wonder about the three-year mission Sulu had just finished. Cataloging gaseous planetary anomalies? ONLY anomalies? It would seem to me that one would have to know the NORMAL gaseous state of a planet in order to catalog its anomalies. However, It can be argued that this study was already done. But, a study to learn normal gaseousness would generate its own list of anomalies, wouldn't it?
Scotty: It is as I said Mr. Spock, inventory registers every torpedo.
Spock: Yet the data-banks insist we fired. One computer is lying.
Are we now to assume that the Enterprise has a local area network onboard? (when TOS had only "the ship's computer")
The C in C (Bill's) assessment that it was a "show trial" is fairly accurate.
Guard: After the first shot we lost our gravitational field. I found myself weightless and unable to function. Then two Starfleet crewmen came walking towards me.
Worf: Perhaps they merely wore Starfleet uniforms.
Chang: That remark is purely speculation. I move that it be stricken.
Judge: Colonel Worf, we are interested in facts, not theories.
Chang then proceeds to invent a story about McCoy's motives and actions, all the while Worf is objecting, and the Judge does nothing!
Derf:
The way the trial dealt with McCoy was also a "shpw trial" in another manner- Chang more or less argues that McCoy was too old and incompetent, then he gets convicted of Gorkon's death. I would think he'd merely be guilty of medical malpractice at most. Kirk, oddly enough, really is guilty- he admits that as Captain he is responsible for the actions of his crew, and guess what- his crew acted to kill Gorkon! I suppose the whole Rura Penthe plot wouldn't be the same if Kirk was sent by himself. For one thing, an accident would have been good enough for one....
Yes indeedy! But the biggest "show" of the trial was Chang's overt super-lawyer act! It was spectacular, rivaling anything I've seen Perry Mason, Matlock or 100 Centre Street pull off.
Great, impressive film. In retrospect, a lot of DS9 references (mostly behind-the-scenes and usually unintentional - shape-shifters, Jem'Hadar lookalikes, someone called Dax, a bad-guy Starfleet officer who looks like Odo, the list goes on...)
Just to clarify a few above pointers - I believe Kim Catrall wanted to call her Vulcan character Eris (see, the DS9 parallels continue again!) after an old Earth mythological figure, but was asked to add "val" to the start of the name to give it a Vulcan "feel".
Also, did anyone notice Todd Bryant in the court scene (he was Klaa in the last movie) as the English translator? Fall from grace or what?!
Considering Rene Auberjonois was Col. West, here's my nomination for "Great Unsaid Line That Should Have Been Said":
[scene: the conference crowd round the fallen Klingon assassin who tried to kill the President, but was defeated by the Enterprise and Excelsior crews, and ultimately shot by Scotty. Someone unmasks him when Worf (I think) notices it is not Klingon blood (an argument for another time) leaking from the body...]
voice: It's Colonel West!
[suddenly West gets up, dusts himself up, only to be restrained by guards]
[[all together now...]]
West: Yes! It was I who tried to kill the President! And I would have gotten away with it too, if it wasn't for you meddling kids!!!
A changeling. It has to be a changeling. It's the only explanation... 
Just to clarify a few above pointers - I believe Kim Catrall wanted to call her Vulcan character Eris (see, the DS9 parallels continue again!) after an old Earth mythological figure, but was asked to add "val" to the start of the name to give it a Vulcan "feel".
According to Nimoy, she picked the name Eris, and then *she* chose to ad the leading "val" for the alien feel.
Another goof--Excelsior had the mission of charting gaseous anomalies, not Enterprise, yet suddenly Enterprise has the equiptment for this task "on board" to incorporate into the photon torpedo to track and destroy Chang's cloaked Bird-of-Prey? And since when is Dr. Mcoy the preferred assistant for this engineering feat?
(Okay, his "I'd give real money if he'd shut up" line makes the scene worth it.)
>>Did anyone notice Todd Bryant in the court scene (he was Klaa in the last movie) as the English translator? Fall from grace or what?!<<
If he WAS Klaa, it could've been the perfect Klingon revenge. Klaa was in a position to let Kirk hear all the wrong things to make for self-incrimination, thus getting his vengence for ruining his attempt at becoming "The Greatest Warrior in the Galaxy".
I thought that the Enterprise had the equipment for gaseous anomalies too because it was some sort of fleet-wide mission. Did they ever say that?
>>Did anyone notice Todd Bryant in the court scene (he was Klaa in the last movie) as the English translator? Fall from grace or what?!<<
#### If he WAS Klaa, it could've been the perfect Klingon revenge. Klaa was in a position to let Kirk hear all the wrong things to make for self-incrimination, thus getting his vengence for ruining his attempt at becoming "The Greatest Warrior in the Galaxy". ####
Ah-ha! Now that would explain EVERYTHING! Cheers for that thought!
Rock-Man! ... Rock-Man! ... we want the Rock-Man!
Dope! That was ST5 ...
To Phil: Nit: There are no boards for ST-8 and ST-9. Please place them!
You will find those movies under the Next Gen/The Movies board.
At the beginning of the movie when Praxis exploded and the huge energy wave was heading strait for the Excelsior, what I don't get is how could the Excelsior survive the MASSIVE energy wave, even with the shields at maximum and the ship being turned into the wave like Sulu said. That seemed unrealistic. The ship should have suffered many casualities and physical damage to make it seem more believable. Any insights on this, or maybe the Excelsior could have tried going to Warp Speed and outrunning the Wave. What Do you think?
Someone once said in this movie the Federation/Starfleet represents the United States of America while the Klingon Empire Represents the Former Soviet Union. And the Praxis explosion would equal the Chernobyl disaster. Others have said the Federation/Starfleet represents the State of Israel in the late 1970's (good guys) while the Klingon Empire represents the Nation of Egypt. Would that make Spock the equal of Henry Kissinger? Also what alien race is the Federation President in Star Trek VI , what about in Star Trek 4 , The Voyage Home, and in the Deep Space Nine era, can anyone answer who is the Federation Prime minister after Jaresh-Inyo the Grazerite.
The Excelsior was (as born-out by the ST6 dialogue) a much bigger ship than the Enterprise. And MASS means the difference between survival and utter destruction when it comes to an explosive shock wave. However, it would seem normal for at least injuries to occur in surviving such a huge shock wave.
In observing this, does a planet create a SHOCK WAVE in naked space? A "shock wave" is the propagation of the explosive force through a medium such as air or water. Would there actually BE a shock wave after Praxis explodes? There are MANY episdoes in Trek where a ship/probe/space vehicle is blown-up in naked space, and there is NO shock wave shown in any filmed sequence.
The shockwave could be made up of millions of rock fragments shot into space.