Best line in the film. Mccoy "Jim you dont ask the almighty for his I.D !"

By Anonymous on Saturday, July 07, 2001 - 01:03 pm:

Could this whole movie be considered a nit?

By Merat on Saturday, July 07, 2001 - 03:29 pm:

Weren't there many more nits here before?

My favorite part of the movie is when Chekov and Sulu, the Navigator and Helmsman, are lost in the woods.

By Derf on Saturday, July 07, 2001 - 07:11 pm:

No ... this whole movie could NOT be considered a nit ... the whole argument for the "total nit" stems from the "Spock's brother" angle ...

By Rene - Digimon Board Moderator (Rcharbonneau) on Saturday, July 07, 2001 - 09:32 pm:

I know. What happened to all the movie nits?

By John A. Lang on Sunday, July 08, 2001 - 01:23 am:

In the archive....go back to where it says:

"Note from the Moderator, 5/20/01: The Classic Trek movies have been given new pages, and the old ones will show up at the archive soon."

By Adam Bomb on Sunday, July 08, 2001 - 06:06 pm:

I wonder how D.C. Fontana felt about the brother angle. She was Trek's story editor for its second season, and did not want Spock to have any siblings.

By Rene on Sunday, July 08, 2001 - 07:35 pm:

And? Because she used to be story editor, doesn't mean everyone has to obey her wishes,

By LUIGI NOVI on Monday, July 09, 2001 - 12:09 am:

All Adam said is that he wondered how she felt about it, Rene.

By Anonymous on Monday, July 09, 2001 - 08:56 am:

This movie SUCKED!
Shatner's direction & histrionics at their worst.
It made The Postman brilliant by comparison.

By Ghel on Monday, July 09, 2001 - 08:34 pm:

Pfft, naah! It had some really good moments. Granted, the plot could have used more than a bit of polishing, but I found this movie to be entertaining.

For histronics at their worst, read Takei's book; "Secondary character, pshaw, I should have my own command. After all, I designed roadways in Los Angeles!"

Or, for more histronics, how about Beltran. "Mommy, daddy, the writers didn't play nice with me. . . the rest of the cast were mean to me, I didn't get to be the hero 'cause they are all big meanies. Nobody's playing fair!!! Waaahhh!"

Shatner is downright humble compared to those two.

By Adam Bomb on Monday, July 09, 2001 - 08:57 pm:

The script for Trek V was rushed for studio approval and into production because of the 1988 writer's strike, and there was no time to polish. I have never seen "The Postman," so I can't comment on that angle.
I also do not know if D.C. Fontana has ever commented on any of the Trek films. She co-wrote "Encounter at Farpoint" for Next Gen, which I think ended her association with Trek.

By Matthew Patterson (Mpatterson) on Monday, July 09, 2001 - 11:30 pm:

Ghel, really, if you look at how Sulu and Chakotay got treated by the writers, the actors do have some basis for concern. Without real characterization, they were basically just props that eat, sitting on the bridge to remind us that the future is PC.

By John A. Lang on Tuesday, July 10, 2001 - 04:54 am:

Chakotay? You mean Chekov.

Chakotay is from Voyager....not TOS

By Merat on Tuesday, July 10, 2001 - 06:36 am:

I think MPatterson was refering to what Ghel said about (Robert) Beltran, the guy who played Chakotay on Voyager.

By Anonymous on Tuesday, July 10, 2001 - 08:44 am:

Of course Shatner is humble compared to Takei & Beltran. He was THE STAR of his Trek series. He made •••• sure that Takei did nothing but say "Aye, sir"(until Trek VI), & the Voyager writers don't know how to write good scripts at all, much less give each of that show's too-large ensemble their 15 minutes.

By John A. Lang on Saturday, August 04, 2001 - 09:23 am:

SHADES OF TOS....

When Scotty makes his log and the red alert alarm goes off, you can see one of the crew members on the Bridge has the infamous 3 pronged doodad from "Metamorphosis"

I must note that Scotty said, "Bogus Frat" (or whatever that made up curse word he used) in TOS again!

By Mark Swinton on Saturday, August 18, 2001 - 02:56 pm:

On which point, I remember reading in Doohan's autobiography (along with the phrase "... and as for William Shatner, well, I just do not like the man...") that he couldn't remember the curse he utters in that first scene on the bridge, but he's certain that it wasn't a repeat of "bogus frat."

By the by, if I may add my own rock-throwing to this particular fray...

I thought that this movie started out well and gradually got worse until the final scenes with the Klingons, which verged on totally unnbelievable (indeed, when Roddenberry declared that he considered parts of this movie to be apocryphal, there can be little doubt that he was thinking of these scenes...) BUT if there's one thing to redeem the movie, it's the music. Whoever orchestrated the Motion Picture/Next Generation theme for the credits (was it Jerry Goldsmith?) positively galvanized it - the effect is truly astounding and I was glad to hear it again in the closing credits of "First Contact" and "Insurrection."

By Adam Bomb on Wednesday, August 22, 2001 - 10:26 am:

The starfield shot, when Kirk is dictating his log, is the same shot used in the main title of "Star Trek II-The Wrath Of Khan."
Why TPTB used rear projection for the bridge viewscreen, instead of the usual bluescreen matte shots, is beyond me. The viewer images seem more washed out in this pic.

By Adam Bomb on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 09:35 am:

Mark: Jerry Goldsmith composed the music. His usual orchestrator is Arthur Morton.

By ScottN on Saturday, September 15, 2001 - 12:25 pm:

Don't know if anyone commented on this yet, but the F/X of the Enterprise and the BOP against the Barrier are really cheesy.

Especially when the Enterprise goes into the barrier and during the battle scene.

By Adam Bomb on Thursday, September 20, 2001 - 06:21 pm:

The barrier in this pic kinda looks like what it really was-tinted water. The FX were not done by ILM, as the Trek powers that be did not want to settle for their third string people. They were done by Associates and Ferren (Bran Ferren) from Long Island, who worked on "Altered States".
Maybe ILM's third string people would have done a better job than Ferren did.

By Derf on Tuesday, September 25, 2001 - 08:40 pm:

I'm watching this right now on TNN ...
The VERY first scene has this exchange ...

(a native of Nimbus III is digging holes in a parched landscape. He sees a hooded man on horseback approaching � runs to his homemade weapon and points it at the man)
Sybok: I thought weapons were forbidden on this planet. Besides, I can�t believe you�d kill me for a field of empty holes. (gets down from horse and approaches the native)
Native: It�s all I have.
Sybok: (looks deep into the native�s eyes � native sinks to his knees) Your pain runs deep.
Native: What do you know of my pain? (sobs)
Sybok: Let us explore it together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and
reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share
your pain � share your pain with me, and gain strength from the sharing �(they embrace � then the native stands up)
Native: Where did you get this power?
Sybok: The power was within you.
Native: It�s as if a weight has been lifted from my heart! How can I repay you for this miracle?
Sybok: Join my quest.
Native: What is it you seek?
Sybok: What you seek. What all men have sought since time began � the ultimate knowledge.
To find it, we�ll need a starship.
Native: A starship?! There are no starships on Nimbus III!

How can this chrome-domed individual KNOW that there are NO starships on/orbiting Nimbus III?

By ScottN on Tuesday, September 25, 2001 - 09:07 pm:

How can this chrome-domed individual KNOW that there are NO starships on/orbiting Nimbus III?

Because it's the hind-end of the Galaxy, and no starship in its right mind would be there?

Although, I would think that there *WAS* a Romulan starship in the area... Otherwise, how would Caithlin Dar get there?

By Adam Bomb on Tuesday, September 25, 2001 - 10:52 pm:

The sound effects as the shuttlecraft lands were lifted from "2001", specifically, the scene when HAL kills the scientists who are in suspended animation.
Why didn't the shuttlecraft raise a dust cloud as it landed on Sha-Ka-Ree? I guess the new shuttles did away with exhaust emissions. Also, why didn't it land closer? (So we could see our friends travelling on foot-more dramatic.)
When Kirk said "Pack out your trash," he meant it. Our friends left their campground as they found it. I guess environmental responsibility is a real issue in that time.
The old Galileo had a stair on the nacelle. Did we need two crewmen acting like butlers to bring portable stairs over to the shuttle?
Cynthia Gouw as Caithlin Dar had a headpiece covering her ears, precluding the need for ear appliances (a la Spock.) Come to think of it, she wore very little makeup to even indicate that she was a Romulan at all.
What brand of cigarettes was St. John Talbot smoking? I had hoped that we would be beyond that by the 23rd century.
George Murdock (God) played the antagonistic Inspector Scanlon on the classic sitcom "Barney Miller". I'm sure that someone noted that his makeup reminds us of the Cowardly Lion.

By Adam Bomb on Wednesday, September 26, 2001 - 08:46 am:

When our friends arrive on the Enterprise for the first time in this pic, Doohan does a voice over that sounds much like the M-5 from "The Ultimate Computer."
The turbo-lift doors on the bridge look a bit narrower than the doors on the bridge from the first four pics.
As Sybok's followers chase down Kirk and Co., they use a corridor from Next Gen's Enterprise-D.
When Kirk is talking to Admiral Bob, a rear projection shot is used. The moving light under the screen is off. When a matte shot of the viewscreen is used, in the same scene, the light is moving. (The matte shot is brighter than the washed-out rear projection shot.)
What happened to the Engineering set from this pic? When Trek VI was made, they used Next Gen's Engineering set.

By Adam Bomb on Sunday, September 30, 2001 - 06:43 am:

Uhura is seen in her first appearance on the new bridge in the skirt uniform, however, when we see her later, picking up our campers, she is wearing the pant uniform.
What was in those food bags she brought for herself and Scotty?

By Anonymous on Monday, October 29, 2001 - 09:10 am:

I've heard that Sh!tner wanted Sean Connery for the role of Sybok(hence the lame name for that planet Sha Ka Ree).
Thankfully, Connery couldn't appear in this drivel because he was busy with Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, which, unlike Trek V, was a GOOD film.

By Adam Bomb on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 07:49 am:

Very true. I also think that Connery is only four years older than Harrison Ford. Instead, we got Lucille Ball's son-in-law, who I think gave a pretty decent performance, although a bit over-the-top at times. Remember, gang, it was Lucille Ball and Desilu Studios who green-lighted Trek in the first place back in 1964. Without her approval, we would never have had any of this-no Classic, Next Gen, etc.

By Anonymous on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 11:31 am:

Connery is actually 12 years Ford's senior.

By Sean Connery on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 01:49 pm:

Why you! How DARE you give my age! I never knew you were the SHLIME of humanity!

By Sean Connery on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 02:56 pm:

Alex, I'll take The Rapists for $200

By LUIGI NOVI on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 08:10 pm:

Back off, you fake ROGUE! I'm the first one to post here as the illustrius Mr. Connery!


And I'll take swords for $1000

By Sven of Electric Sheep on Thursday, November 01, 2001 - 10:22 am:

He's probably a replicant, Luigi - in which case, bring on Harrison Ford!

By John A. Lang on Monday, November 19, 2001 - 08:09 pm:

Why does the interior of Klaa's Bird of Prey look so radically different from the interior of Kruge's Bird of Prey?

By Lolar Windrunner on Monday, November 19, 2001 - 10:39 pm:

Maybe each BOP captain is able to personalize his vessal and the bridges are modular. Which also explains how Kirk and co where able to redecorate the BOP between SFS and TVH.

By Sven of Nine on Tuesday, November 20, 2001 - 03:55 pm:

Come to think of it, the BoP birdge in this film looks a LOT like the one in the last film - apart from the anachronistic periscope thing, of course.

By kerriem. on Tuesday, February 05, 2002 - 12:08 pm:

Just got finished reading the reallyreally funny ST:V review at jabootu.com (aka Jabootu's Bad Movie Dimension) and recommend it highly...to Trekkers with a sense of humour, anyway.

Besides outlining just how goofy the movie is -and I'm sorry, but it really is, especially Uhura's moonlight fan dance - it points out a lot of interesting nits.

By LUIGI NOVI on Monday, March 18, 2002 - 08:26 pm:

Someone who cared a lot more about his career, that�s who
Trivia Question: What actor was originally intended for the role of Sybok? (Hint: Sha Ka Ree is a distortion of his name. Answer at the end of this post.)

Now if only we can get him to do the same to every copy of this movie
The satellite that Captain Klaa destroys in the beginning of the movie is Pioneer 10.
And you�re an ugly bald guy with no teeth. What�s your point?
In the beginning of the movie, when J�Onn, the bald settler who first encounters Sybok, sees his pointed ears, he exclaims, "You�re a Vulcan?!" Why didn�t J�Onn simply assume Sybok was a Romulan? There�s a Romulan on the planet, and by this point in the Trek timeline, Romulans don�t have the enlarged cranium that they have in NextGen.
Live long and get tanked
In Requiem for Methuselah, Bones asked Kirk if the two of them could handle a drunk Vulcan, alluding to whether or not they should give Spock Saurian brandy. But at the first campout in the beginning of this movie, when Kirk wonders if Spock can handle Tennessee whiskey in Bone�s beans, Bones laughs it off, saying that Spock, with his Vulcan metabolism, could eat anything and suffer no ill effects. For a doctor versed in various alien species his assessment of Spock�s metabolism sure has changed.
Identity Crisis
Spock sure is waffling on the whole "am I human or not" issue. He informed Bones in Spectre of the Gun, that he is actually half human when the doctor said he wasn�t human. Then, at the end of ST II, when Bones said no human could survive in the irradiated area of engineering, Spock replied that he is not human. Now, during the campout, when Bones compliments Spock�s Vulcan metabolism, Spock says that as the doctor is so fond of pointing out, he is also half human. I think the various creators of these episodes and movies should get together, compare notes, and decide whether or not Spock considers himself human.
If a tree falls in the woods on top of two morons, does anyone give a damm?
How the hell can Sulu and Chekov get lost in the park? What ever happened to electronic satellite mapping technology? Does GPS (Global Positioning Satellite system) go out of style in the 23rd century?
So that�s why there�s a gallon of sweat in my boots!
And when they get lost, Uhura says her viewer says the weather is sunny, and 70 degrees. Aren�t Sulu and Chekov dressed a bit heavily for 70 degree weather?
Carpooling captains
Admiral "Bob" tells Kirk that there are no experienced captains in the area of Nimbus III. Of course there aren�t! How could there be if Starfleet keeps putting two captains on each ship? Why are Kirk and Spock on the Enterprise? They�re both captains!
A hands-on kinda guy
After Kirk and crew, disguised as the lookout party, is discovered by Sybok�s bald companion, J�Onn, Kirk yells out to his team, "Phasers on stun." Curiously, however, Kirk takes a couple of natives hand to hand.
One life down, eight to go!
I know cats supposedly don�t getting wet, but I didn�t know it acted as an anesthetic on them. After being attacked in the bar by the catdancer, Kirk hurls her into a tank of water, and for some odd reason, this renders her unconscious.
Maybe they�ll get lucky and the Federation President will be the judge on their case and acquit them too
There�s a question that is raised in this movie, but left unanswered. Is Sybok�s pain-catharsis power coercive, like brainwashing, or is it passive, leaving the recipients in control of their faculties and actions? At first, I naturally thought it was the former, because it causes the three ambassadors, as well as Sulu, Chekov, and Uhura to betray Kirk, which they would never do, but then, when Spock and Bones are exposed to it, they remain sided with Kirk. Are Spock and Bones possessed of exceptional willpower and mental stoicism? Spock perhaps, but Bones? But if it�s not coercive, then St. John, Sulu, Uhura, and Chekov should be brought up on charges of treason and mutiny by Starfleet.
And then there�s the one about the Earth being flat, and ships falling over the edge when they travel too far
Kirk says that no ship has ever breached the Great Barrier, yet the Enterprise and Captain Klaa�s Bird of Prey do just that going in and returning from it! Curiously, no one ever explains how they do this, though Brent Frankenhoff, an associate editor of The Comics Buyer�s Guide, mentioned in an issue of that newspaper that the movie�s novelization allocated a couple of pages to explaining it.
Don�t know much about history
In trying to convince Kirk and Spock of the existence of Sha Ka Ree, Sybok points out all the other paradigms throughout history that were broken, noting the "fact" that Columbus proved the Earth was round. This is a myth. Columbus found quicker shipping routes to China, and was trying to prove that the circumference of the Earth was not what some thought it was. The spherical shape of the Earth, however, was already generally accepted long before 1492, and dates back to 400 BC, when Aristotle presented a convincing argument that the Earth was round, based on the shape of the shadow that falls on the Moon during a lunar eclipse. Later, Eratosthenes, another Greek thinker, assuming the Earth to be spherical, figured out a fairly accurate value for its circumference and diameter in 240 BC. By 1492, the shape of the Earth was commonly known. The fact that a ship�s sails would be seen first when approaching over the horizon, and last when departing, was another reasoning for this conclusion. Even the Catholic Church said it was round. There are even photographs of globes that survived into the age of photography, dated to the time before Columbus� famous journey. The notion that Columbus proved this when he sailed to the Americas is a myth that was created by The Legend of Sleepy Hollow author Washington Irving, in a biography of Columbus that he wrote in 1828.
He�s just likes to blow stuff up
Why does Spock act as gunner on the Klingon ship at the end of the movie? Were they short-handed or something? Or is their aim really that bad? Klaa did a fairly good job at destroying Pioneer 10 at the beginning of the movie. Was it that hard to pinpoint an energy being on the planet that was causing a beam a light to project outward into space?
Challenging the Caped Crusader is futile
This movie faired poorly at the box office, in part because it went up against Batman. Interestingly, the name of the Ed Koch lookalike mayor in that film was "Borg!"

They couldn�t have two actors known for playing characters that shag the hell out of everything in sight in the same movie
Trivia Answer: Sean Connery

By Lolar Windrunner on Monday, March 18, 2002 - 11:05 pm:

In RFM Spock had not been around the corrupting influences of SPock and Mccoy for too long so they probably didn't know for sure how he would react also they were probably joking/teasing with Spock. Saurian Brandy is also supposed to be more powerful than Terran Whiskey.

As for miss Kitty maybe that wasn't water she landed in.

By John A. Lang on Monday, March 18, 2002 - 11:10 pm:

It was the Aqua-Pool Table....I guess alien cats are like Earth-like cats...they can't stand water & they can't swim.

By LUIGI NOVI on Monday, March 18, 2002 - 11:13 pm:

Saurian Brandy is also supposed to be more powerful than Terran Whiskey.
Luigi Novi: Where was this established?

By Benn on Monday, March 18, 2002 - 11:20 pm:

"In Requiem for Methuselah, Bones asked Kirk if the two of them could handle a drunk Vulcan, alluding to whether or not they should give Spock Saurian brandy. But at the first campout in the beginning of this movie, when Kirk wonders if Spock can handle Tennessee whiskey in Bone�s beans, Bones laughs it off, saying that Spock, with his Vulcan metabolism, could eat anything and suffer no ill effects. For a doctor versed in various alien species his assessment of Spock�s metabolism sure has changed."

Well, McCoy always claimed in TOS,he wasn't too familar with Vulcan anatomy. It's quite possible that over the years he learned more of it. He may have been Spock's personal physician, dealing with the Science Officer's unique anatomy. Remember, Spock's anatomy is probably only partly Vulcan. There are surely parts of it that are somewhat Human.

"Identity Crisis
Spock sure is waffling on the whole 'am I human or not' issue. He informed Bones in Spectre of the Gun, that he is actually half human when the doctor said he wasn�t human. Then, at the end of ST II, when Bones said no human could survive in the irradiated area of engineering, Spock replied that he is not human. Now, during the campout, when Bones compliments Spock�s Vulcan metabolism, Spock says that as the doctor is so fond of pointing out, he is also half human. I think the various creators of these episodes and movies should get together, compare notes, and decide whether or not Spock considers himself human."

Again, in Wrath of Khan, Spock says, "As you are so fond of observing, Doctor, I am not human." He does refer to himself as half-Human, but I suspect he can't help throwing MCoy's words back at him.

By ScottN on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 10:37 am:

From the Charlies Angels Department
by this point in the Trek timeline, Romulans don�t have the enlarged cranium that they have in NextGen.

No, but they still have really hot women! Ref: Romulan Commander The Enterprise Incident, and Caitlin Dar.

By ScottN on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 10:41 am:

Saurian Brandy is also supposed to be more powerful than Terran Whiskey.
Luigi Novi: Where was this established?

I don't know if it was formally established, but By Any Other Name certainly implies it.

By Lolar Windrunner on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 02:27 pm:

As far as I Know By Any Other Name is one of the on screen references that make it seem stronger than Terran Whiskey. I have also seen it in several of the novels where they have discussed it. And before you say it I realize the novels are not considered cannon by the Powers that Be, however I consider most of them to be a valid portion of the trek universe. Just like there is an Enterprise Class and the Akiraprise captained by Archer never happened.

By Derf on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 02:55 pm:

Not an argument, but only a simple "earthbound" observation:
Brandy is usually 30% alcohol - whiskey is usually 40%. It seems odd to call brandy more potent than whiskey ... but that's just me.

By Mikey on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 03:54 pm:

Luigi Novi: *** Spock sure is waffling on the whole "am I human or not" issue... ***

Well, I wouldn't define it as "waffling." People's definitions of themselves often change. I used to define myself as "straight." But over time, I came to accept a different definition that was truer to me.

Spock's different perception in ST2 can be explained in one of two ways: 1. After his experiences with Kohlinar (sp?), Spock came to define himself as more Vulcan than human (which also explains his comment to Saavik about Kirk being so human). 2. Spock knew what needed to be done and was trying to do it without getting into an argument with McCoy. So he emphasized the fact that he wasn't human to demonstrate that maybe he can survive the radiation exposure.

Spock's change in ST5 is more easily explained. The man died! I could certainly see how a man of Spock's intelligence would reflect and re-examine his philosophical existence. In fact, this follows logically from ST4 where his mother prompted him to accept and incorporate his humanity into his being and later in ST5 when he tells Sybok he no longer feels like an outcast.


Luigi Novi: ***Is Sybok�s pain-catharsis power coercive, like brainwashing, or is it passive, leaving the recipients in control of their faculties and actions? ***

Perhaps it was a little of both? In ST2, Khan used Ceti Eels to manipulate Terrel and Chekov. But there was a point where Khan pushed too far, prompting Terrel to kill himself rather than Kirk.

Perhaps Sybok's ability did something similar. Pain strengthens an individual. As Kirk points out, we need our pain. By removing their pain, Sybok in effect made them incapable of fighting him off, making them more susceptible to suggestion.

Spock is able to fight it off for two possible reasons: 1. Having been trained in the Vulcan disciplines, Spock is somehow able to block Sybok's abilities more effectively. 2. As Spock pointed out, Sybok chose something that Spock had already come to terms with: his life as an outcast.

McCoy, on the other hand, was swayed by Sybok. It took Kirk's impassioned speech and Spock's resolve to help him fight off Sybok's effects. Or perhaps McCoy's sense of friendship was simply stronger than Uhura and Sulu's senses of loyalty. Or perhaps Kirk exposing the magician's bag of tricks simply disillusioned him.

By Lolar Windrunner on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 04:13 pm:

when talking about alien grains and brewing processes common definitions may not be quite so common.

By LUIGI NOVI on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 12:07 pm:

Lolar Windrunner: before you say it I realize the novels are not considered cannon by the Powers that Be, however I consider most of them to be a valid portion of the trek universe. Just like there is an Enterprise Class and the Akiraprise captained by Archer never happened.
Luigi Novi: So in other words, "I know the novels aren't canon, the refit Enterprise was a Constitution-class, and the NX-01 is now part of continuity, but I just don't care." Sounds good to me. In a similar vein, there was no episode called By Any Other Name, and no novels contain any lines about Saurian brandy.

By Lolar Windrunner on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 05:10 pm:

You have your reality and I have mine. May you find yours as satisfactory. But there are two camps about things. I am not alone in thinking that the Enterprise should be a class on its own as it is an entirely different ship. The web page I have quoted from is just one (www.ex-astris-scientia.org) that puts forth valid and reasonable arguments that I will not repeat here but sugest that you look at them for yourself. The problem with the "official" version of the Star trek history is that Berman and the other creators have a tendency to rewrite and revise it whenever they wish to. Although TPTB have tried to claim that it all flows together there have been to many instances where a later idea has changed things. For example the Klingons. Had the episode Trials and Tribblations not occured I wuld have happily gone along with the argument that they always looked like that but we just never knew it. Unfortunately the folks at DS9 travelled back in time and saw the old Klingons and never recognized them. And as for Worf's we do not discus it line that was a cheesey cop out. Babylon 5 and Star Wars have entire departments devoted to ensuring that any authorized novel or comic book fits within the universe and all of the B5 novels are considered cannon. I would continue but I have things to do and places to go tonight so I wish you well.

By LUIGI NOVI on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 08:55 pm:

What you say makes sense, Lolar, but the fact that the refit Enterprise was a Constitution-class ship was possibly established with Gene Roddenberry's approval, or even his insistence, and doesn't constitute Berman and Braga "rewriting or revising" anything. What, after all, did they rewrite or revise? Was there any line that said the refit Enterprise wasn't Constitution class?

In fact, the earliest indication that it was that I can think of was the creators' original intention to use a movie Enterprise in The Battle(TNG), and actually had Levar Burton refer to it as a "Constitution" class ship (not an "Enterprise" ship) before the ship in the episode was changed to a Constellation-class and his dialogue redubbed. This was only the eighth episode of NextGen, when Gene Roddenberry was in charge.

And as I always say, Lolar, to each his own. Thanks for the link. I'll check it out.

By Lolar Windrunner on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 10:22 pm:

Sorry about earlier but I was a bit rushed. I agree with you that roddenberry may have intended the Enterprise post TMP to still be called a Constiution but the "reality" of the refit would have/should have made it a different class. Especially since he made such a big deal about it being the only constitution class returning from the 5 years missions in his novelization and having the entire fleet adopt the Enterprise's symbol you would think he would have taken the opportunity to call the refit an Enterprise class. True while Roddenberry was in charge things remained relatively self consistent, but when Berman and Braga came into the picture things got a bit wonky shall we say.
To give some evidence to support that the refit ship is a constitution lok at the plans that Scotty is looking at in STVI. They are labelled Constitution Class and show the new refit Enterprise. (This is during the search for the uniforms when Scotty is taking a break in the officer's mess.) But unfortunately there is more evidence (visual and a few lines) that would imply otherwise even if you work within the constraints of "cannonicity".
As for the episode "By Any Other Name" it is from Season Two episode #50 episode stardate 4657.5 it is the one involving the Kelvans a race from the Andromeda Galaxy that takes over the Enterprise to go home and turns most of the crew into packing foam.
Ex Astris is a pretty good website that takes a slightly "alternative" view of the Star Trek universe that I simply happen to agree with. Although he does deal with cannonicity as well.
As for Enterprise it is an ok show as science fiction shows go. As for it being part of the Star Trek Universe, like I've said before, it just doesn't feel right. Sorta like going to your grandmas house and seeing her with a pierced nose and pink hair. (Unless that is normal for your grandma) ;-) I have seen a few pieces of a couple episodes and watched the entire premiere but I just can't get into it. Well I gotta get some sleep so take it easy every one and peace be with you.

By Lolar Windrunner on Thursday, March 21, 2002 - 01:02 am:

Since I'm awake and thinking about this I have a couple of things to say. First off is anyone else having trouble getting rid of this masso nasty flu bug going around. Already it has made two laps around my family. Arrgghhhh! Anyhow, I like EAS a lot but do not always agree with everything presented there because as with most other websites your milage may vary, but EAS has got a lot of rational discussion that just plain makes sense. I have already made it clear that I favor the FASA interpretation of a lot of the movie events as well as TOS and would like to have seen what they could have done with TNG era, but that could only happen in an alternate universe now. As a gamemaster I realize how hard keeping a consistent universe can be (even without people occasionally trying to destroy it) so I forgive some things like the Tellerite's makeup changing and everybody speaking english. It is the really big stuff like the changing Klingons in "trials and tribbleations" the introduction of the Borg as the uberbad guy then by Voyagers time they can be bumped off rather easily (although the hive mind/queen was an ok concept and I could even buy that for a dollar) by a single starship lost on a three hour tour. A few other things that if I had more brain cylinders hitting I would mention but you get the idea. But like I said before each preson has their own view and "reality perception" of what Trek truely is, like many things in life. So thats enough of my rambling for tonight. Good wishes to all of you.

By Craig Rohloff on Thursday, March 21, 2002 - 09:23 am:

Off topic, but reacting to a comment in Lolar's last post...
My sympathies about the flu. I can relate; I thought it would NEVER leave my household, plus I got food poisoning on top of it! :-(

By Electron on Thursday, March 21, 2002 - 12:55 pm:

The satellite that Captain Klaa destroys in the beginning of the movie is Pioneer 10.

Either Klaa was doing his target practice dangerously close to our solar system or Pioneer 10 was much farther away than by the NASA expected.

By Craig Rohloff on Thursday, March 21, 2002 - 03:45 pm:

Hey, if Voyager 6 could end up across the galaxy, who's to say Pioneer 10 couldn't be that close to Klingon-patrolled space?

By Sophie Hawksworth on Sunday, March 31, 2002 - 03:00 pm:

Kirk steals a load of horses for his troops. Curious how all those Feds know how to ride...

'Phasors on stun.' Heck of a time to tell us, Jim! Couldn't you have mentioned that before they started shooting at us?

Just before the shuttle emergency docks, the instrument noise is the same as in 2010. I think it's where the probe goes down to Europa (although it might be where the pod hovers above the monolith).

I noticed Adam Bomb's 2001 sound effect post above. I don't know it's the same effect.

By Metrion Cascade on Wednesday, August 21, 2002 - 06:15 am:

My nits for ST5...
How the hell did the Enterprise get to the center of the galaxy so fast? It should have taken decades.
Where were the aliens that the Enterprise-D later found when Barclay turned all universal geniusy and took the E-D to the center of the galaxy?
When Spock, Bones, and Kirk fly up the turbolift shaft with the antigrav boots, they stop on deck...84? How big was the Enterprise-A?
As for the shuttle not kicking up dust on Sha Ka Ree, why not? The shuttle that crashed the campout in Yosemite made the trees blow around and was generally a lot noisier. But I think it was a different class of shuttle.

By Adam Bomb on Wednesday, August 21, 2002 - 10:03 am:

No, I think it was the same class of shuttle. The shuttle that took our guys away from their shore leave was Galileo, the shuttle that landed on Sha-Ka-Ree was Copernicus, but they looked identical.
The sound effect IS the same, Sophie. Check it out.
BTW, the Ed (How'm I Doin') Koch lookalike actor who played the mayor in Batman is named Lee Wallace. He also (prophetically) played the NYC mayor in the 1974 pic The Taking Of Pelham One-Two-Three (three years before Koch was elected.)

By LUIGI NOVI on Wednesday, August 21, 2002 - 10:34 pm:

Metrion Cascade: Where were the aliens that the Enterprise-D later found when Barclay turned all universal geniusy and took the E-D to the center of the galaxy?
Luigi Novi: The center of the galaxy isn't just one single spot, Metrion. The Galactic Hub is pretty darn big. Any idea on what its circumference is? The Cytherians may simply live on the opposite side of the Hub from where the Enterprise went to.

By ChrisJ on Saturday, September 14, 2002 - 01:58 pm:

Metrion Cascade: When Spock, Bones, and Kirk fly up the turbolift shaft with the antigrav boots, they stop on deck...84? How big was the Enterprise-A?

ChrisJ: I also remember quite clearly seeing the same deck pass by twice. In my opinion, the sets for the Enterprise are entirely lame in this movie. No one bothered to ask the tech designers how the Enterprise was layed out. They borrowed sets from the Next Generation of the Enterprise-D and from there the whole thing falls apart for me. Deck 84? Bah! Even Enterprise-D doesn't have that many, and it's five times bigger!

By LUIGI NOVI on Saturday, September 14, 2002 - 04:40 pm:

Five times? The Enterprise-A is 305 meters long. The Enterprise-D is 641.

By Sven of Nine - in 3D!!!!!! on Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 02:56 am:

I think Chris was speaking in terms of 3 dimensions.

By ChrisJ on Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 06:01 am:

Yep, i was. I'm not absolutley sure of the exact measurements of the two ships, but the Enterprise-D's overall mass is much larger. All i'm saying is for the Enterprise-A to have 84 decks, doesn't fit in with every other episode and movie's depiction of the size of the ship. The Enterprise-E only has 24 decks, and that is much bigger than a constitution class. STV depicts the Enterprise-A to be nothing short of a city in space. It's never been that big!

By LUIGI NOVI on Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 12:34 pm:

Even in 3 dimensions, is it really five times bigger?

By ScottN on Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 05:22 pm:

Actually, assuming each of the dimensions is twice the size (length, beam, height), it would be eight times bigger.

By LUIGI NOVI on Monday, September 16, 2002 - 01:17 am:

But it's not. The Enterprise-D is certainly twice as long, but it doesn't seem twice as wide, and DEFINITELY not twice as high.

By ChrisJ on Monday, September 16, 2002 - 04:38 am:

According to the Enterprise-D tech manual, from looking at the saucer from above, it would seem you can fit almost three Enterprise A's in there. You can fit six A saucers in there for sure. Actually, Enterprise-D does look three times as wide as A, maybe a little wider. Its definatly twice as high, and twice as long.

By Sven of Nine, adding no value to this conversation at all on Monday, September 16, 2002 - 11:09 am:

The screeching in the background is the sound of hairs being split, methinks.

By Christopher Q on Monday, October 14, 2002 - 10:53 am:

Luigi Novi typed earlier, regarding Columbus, that "The spherical shape of the Earth, however, was already generally accepted long before 1492". However, anything before 1492 would be a theory. If Columbus had actually landed at an eastern continent by going west, then he would have conclusively proved that the world was round. The fact that he hit America and didn't complete his mission was what prevented him from proving the theory. Instead of a round Earth, or a flat Earth, we could all be on the back of a really really big turtle.

By the way, I type this on 10/14/02.
Columbus Day!

By ScottN on Monday, October 14, 2002 - 11:00 am:

By the way, I type this on 10/14/02.
Columbus Day!

Only under the "Monday Holiday" rule. "Columbus Day" is actually 12 October. Today is "Columbus Day (Observed)".

By LUIGI NOVI on Monday, October 14, 2002 - 03:04 pm:

Christopher Q: However, anything before 1492 would be a theory. If Columbus had actually landed at an eastern continent by going west, then he would have conclusively proved that the world was round. The fact that he hit America and didn't complete his mission was what prevented him from proving the theory.
Luigi Novi: Except that his mission had nothing to do with the notion of the Earth's shape. Everyone already believed it to be round. While it is true that it may have been classified as a "theory," this was never really a point of contention concerning his journey.

By ScottN on Monday, October 14, 2002 - 03:44 pm:

Luigi is correct. What was in dispute was Columbus' calculations as to the distance between the west coast of Europe and the east coast of Asia.

By Kerriem (Kerriem) on Monday, October 14, 2002 - 07:08 pm:

Yep. Prior to Columbus the round-earth business may have been only a theory, but it was a very well-supported one, as James Loewen points out in Lies My Teacher Told Me:

In truth, few people on both sides of the Atlantic in 1492 believed that the Earth was flat. Most Europeans and Native Americans knew the world to be round. It looks round. It casts a circular shadow on the moon. Sailors see its roundness when ships disappear over the horizon, hull first, then sails.

Ironically, the Ridley Scott Columbus epic 1492: Conquest of Paradise opens with ol' Chris actually demonstrating the ships-over-the-horizon bit - but the film frames it as some sort of outre gag that only he could see the significance of at the time...

By Maquis Lawyer on Tuesday, October 15, 2002 - 09:26 am:

Before he went to Spain, Columbus hung out in Lisbon. The Portuguese fishermen knew all about the fisheries off the Grand Banks, and presumably the nearby coast of North America. However, they wanted to keep these fisheries for themselves, so when Columbus tried to pitch his expedition to the Portuguese monarchy, the fishing interests in Lisbon did everything they could to discredit him. When Columbus tried again in Spain, he used the smallest projected circumference of the globe and the longest projected extent of the Eurasian continent to make the prospect of reaching Asia seem feasible. Although many of Ferdinand and Isabella's advisors questioned Columbus's numbers, they too had heard about the lands to the west, and figured it might be worth a try.

By Metrion Cascade on Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 04:05 pm:

Two other nits about the turbolift scene - The ceiling of the tube has one of those TNG pentagonal crate things fixed to it, and there's one deck they pass with a lower number than the one preceding it.

As for sizes -
Galaxy Class Dimensions-
Length : 641 m
Beam : 470 m
Height : 145 m
Decks : 42
Mass 4,960,000 tons

Constitution Class (refit) dimensions-
Dimensions Length : 305 m
Beam : 140 m
Height : 75 m
Decks : 23
Mass 620,000 tons

Go to www.ditl.org for the rest.

By Beater of dead horses on Friday, December 20, 2002 - 07:50 pm:

I wonder if it's possible those numbers aren't deck numbers? Maybe they're Jeffries Tube numbers, or they have some other significance? One of the Jeffries Tubes might make a U-Turn and that's why we see the same number twice. Is that plausible?
There's an obvious pun they could have used--
The Captain climbing El Capitan, the famous mountain. I don't remember if the novelisation uses that pun?
In the very beginning, when Kirk is on the mountain, I read you can supposedly see the cables holding Shatner up, but I couldn't see them. When he's falling, I see some black streaks, but they could be rock markings on the mountain.
When Spock turns to go rescue Kirk, his feet move as if he's standing on solid surface; he should be moving his feet differently. The way he moves, he should have shot off into another direction entirely.
"I thought weapons weren't allowed on this planet."
The problem with that is defining exactly what constitutes a weapon. Would feminine wiles be considered a weapon? Verbal judo? Screaming real loud?
I did some math, and I figure Pioneer 10 would be just about 30 billion miles away at the time of this movie. Unless there it went through a wormhole.
It would have been more interesting to find out if the Feds knew where the Pioneer and Voyager 1 and 2 probes were, and if they were left there or retrieved to be put in a museum? And wouldn't people get upset at the Klingons shooting the Pioneer 10 probe?
Kirk says, "Maybe God is in here" touching his chest. Didn't the writers know how ambiguous that gesture was? It could be an expression of either religiosity or secular humanism.
It would have been nice to have some insight into what our heroes really think about the issue.
But Nooooooooooooo..........

Doesn't "Turnabout Intruder" prove the existence of souls in the Trek universe? But some people might say the existence of souls doesn't prove the existence of God. But they couldn't have anybody say anything like that in this movie...

Luigi Novi:
And when they get lost, Uhura says her viewer says the weather is sunny, and 70 degrees. Aren�t Sulu and Chekov dressed a bit heavily for 70 degree weather?

There are places in the mountains where, as you go from sunlight to shade, it can go from warm to cold very quickly. A cold, variable wind is also a reason to dress warm. And temperatures can vary during the day. One of the few anti-nits in this movie--
But, scientists have been developing fabrics which can expand and contract depending on the temperature; maybe that's the kind of fabrics Sulu and Chekov are wearing, but we should have seen some indication of that.

By bela okmyx on Monday, January 06, 2003 - 09:04 am:

This exchange still puzzles me:

Talbot: "The settlers who colonized this planet were the dregs of the galaxy, who immediately began squabbling amongst themselves. We forbade them weapons, so they fashioned ones of their own."

Dar: "Then it appears that I arrived just in time."

"Just in time" for what? Did she bring in a new shipment of weapons? Somekinda weapon neutralizer? I don't get it.

>>>Adam Bomb - What brand of cigarettes was St. John Talbot smoking? I had hoped that we would be beyond that by the 23rd century.<<<

It was probably done to illustrate the corruption and decadence of the planet's inhabitants, like the "Star Wars"-esque cantina scene, and Korrd's drunkenness.

By Brian Fitzgerald on Monday, January 06, 2003 - 09:10 pm:

The "just in time" line was a sarcastic remark about the futility of the ambassador's jobs on this planet. She's saying "we're going to make peace between these people, yea right."

By Larry J. Nimoy on Friday, January 24, 2003 - 01:49 pm:

what a lousy flick. This is what happens when you let Shitner direct. Bah.