Star Trek V: The Final Frontier
Index
I can't figure out why they had to use the Enterprise. So they need Kirk- why not just put him on another ship?
What the heck were they thinking when they made the deck numbers? Not only are there too many (Deck 72????) but as they climed the shaft the numbers increased when they should have decreased. Deck one has always been at the top as far as I know.
There are several times in corridors where you can clearly see that they were Enterprise-D corridors. They even had the NextGen labeling on the doors.
I had always thought that photon torpedoes were more powerful than our atomic weapons. However, Kirk is able to escape the pho-torp explosion on foot! You could not do this if someone dropped an H-bomb in front of you.
Overall, the story was OK but I was less than impressed with the special effects.
Got to give Shatner credit. He made the film in the tradtion of Team Roddenberry -- CHEAP!
Just be thankful the rockmen didn't appear as planned. Or the amorpheous blob.
Another thing- the sound effects of the Klingon ship firing at the end sound exactly like Star Wars sound effects.
It's not a bad movie. The special effects were very cheap but good old Kirk gave us the immortal "spaceship" line and every member of the crew got at least one big scene.
In the TNG episode where Barclay becomes super intelligent they go to I think the center of the galaxy, and encounter a Giant head, now they also encounter a Giant Head in this movie. Same species? And also captain Kirk is really one of those giant heads in human form, and is really hundreds of years old. He first went to earth in 1999.
When the consul's try to call for help before they are captured, they press a button on the TV which raises a pane of glass with a grid on it.They are then told to get away from the transmitter.So, that grid thing is probably the communications device.But when Sybok talks to Chekov, that grid is missing.
I've heard alot of criticism about the way Shatner directed this movie, but I can't really understand this. I'm not talking about the whole Sybok/half brother thing, the silly campfire singing, or the cheap special effects. Just what, in your opinions, did Shatner do wrong with his DIRECTING?
It is the director's responsibility to make sure he has a good script. Other than that, I have no problems with his directing.
From what I understand, there wasn't really a way to get a good script, the writer's guide was on strike and (I'm not entirely sure) but I think they had a strict time limit in which to film the movie.
Shatner explains all of the good and the bad of making ST5 in his Movie Memories book. If you don't wish to spend $1.98 for it on the bargain books shelves, go to the library and check out the book-on-tape and listen to the 3rd of 4 cassettes.
He explains what his grand idea for ST5 was originally going to play out, and which shots were edited due to screw-ups (Yosemite tree tops seen behind Kirk & Spock in their mountain-side chat), which ones Paramount knotted the purse strings as over budget, and which scenes were edited so it would fit an 1hr 30min time frame so it could run twice a night in most theaters.
Funny how as I'm writing this, I'm listening to the soundtrack of ST5.
Yeah. Sure. I'll believe it when I hear it from someone other than the director and writer of the movie.
William Shatner's "Memories" book is very good and insightful, not to mention he interviews fellow cast members and crew members... you should give it a read, it's not only fun, but it's also quite humorous in some parts.
I've read it, but I am still not buying his explanation of why the movie flopped until I hear one of the other cast members or production people say it.
B.F.: "the writer's guide was on strike"? What, did it shut itself and refused to be opened or something? What was the writer's guild doing at the time?
I don't remember, but I think they were demanding more money (isn't Hollywood always) and they didn't get it so they went on strike.
The strike was also responsible for the delay in releasing Star Trek V. Considering the success of STIV, the sequel shouldn't have taken 3 years, but it did.
Sorry, But I like this movie. I think it is closer
to TOS thematically than IV. IV does not age well.
As far as acting, the Shat was a bit of a let down
(too busy directing), and who the heck cares about
Doohan's maoning? The guy blames the Shat for
blowing a simple line.... That guy is so bi
I agree that this film had a lot of TOS classic themes. But what line did Shatner blow?
I think it was in Fatty, er Scotty's book where he
wrote that he kept messing up his lines in the
head bump scene because he thought the Shat was
intentionally using that scene to belittle
Scott
I liked this movie at first sight.
Now I see it as an amusing adventure that starts with many many fine things but just gets worse as it goes along. The orchestration of the main theme is absolutely brilliant though!
At the end, when Spock mentions he's just lost a brother, Kirk replies, "I lost a brother once." McCoy gives a quizzical look. Kirk continues, "I was lucky, though. I got him back." Awww! He was talking about Spock! Very sweet.
The problem is, Kirk really did lose a brother. Sam Kirk was killed by the Denevan neural parasites in "Operation--Annihilate!." The first time I saw STV I thought Sam was who he was going to talk about, but Kirk appears to have no recollection of Sam, and neither do Spock or McCoy.
Funny, because Shatner himself played Sam's corpse in the episode (and very convincingly, I must say).
It was either the comic or the novel version that changes the line to "I've lost 2 brothers in my time. I was lucky to get one of them back."
OK, Spock doesn't want to shoot his half-brother Sybok with the rock gun---accepted.
BUT why not give Sybok the "Vulcan Nerve Pinch"?
He's only a few inches away? Duh!
GREAT MOMENTS.....
Spock gives a Vulcan-nerve pinch
to a horse!!!!
Another GREAT example of the strength Spock has!!
People have been wondering about the relation to the "god" head who resides in the center of the galaxey and the giant head from The Nth Degree. It seems to me that they must be of the same species. My own personal theory is that the fake god is in fact a member of their race who has been bannished and imprisoned on that barren lifeless planet, which is why he needs a starship to escape.
In order to save money they gave Caithlin Dar
(the Romulan Ambassador) a set of gold earrings
that completely cover her ears instead of giving her pointed ear devices.
(Shades of "Balance of Terror"..I tell ya'!)
Speaking of Caithlin Dar, she must not be too
important of a representative or she fell out
of favor with the Romulans like Korrd did with the Klingons because no Romulan ship was seen nor heard from in the entire movie.
(Which might have made it more interesting)
GREAT SCENE:
Uhura's bare-naked legs!
Nummy!
She's still got it!
In order to save time in this movie,
they had Scotty move the Enterprise-A
from inside the space station to a standard
orbit around the Earth.
All by himself? Did he get out and push?
I hate that Uhura scene. If only for the missed moment where Kirk gives Uhura her orders:
"Ok, here's the plan. Uhura, take off all your clothes and throw them down here. Then, take those palm fronds over there and do a little dance. Spock, me, and the rest of the boys will be right behind you."
BEST LINE:
"Hello, boys! I've always wanted to perform before a captive audience!" Uhura after Sybok's henchmen
get captured.
It sure beats "Hailing frequencies open"
from "The Corbomite Manuver"
From the X-Men movie board:
Quote:By ScottN on Thursday, June 8, 2000 - 07:07 pm:
The only question now is, Do they have a good script?
STV:TFF had good cast, good direction (you can't fault Shatner for that), etc etc... everything except one thing... IT had a lousy script. Shatner did the best he could with a bad script, but that's the key thing. I hope X-Men has a good script... We'll see.
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By Rene on Friday, June 9, 2000 - 02:43 pm:
Um....Didn't Shatner write the thing?
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By ScottN on Friday, June 9, 2000 - 02:58 pm:
I'm not sure. Even so, that was the ONLY problem with the movie. If the script stank, that's cuz Shatner had a bad storyline or can't write (ask J&GRS to be sure J), but everyone (Shatner included) did an excellent job within the limits of the horrible script.
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By Steve Bryce on Friday, June 9, 2000 - 03:25 pm:
According to the credits, Shatner did the story, but not the screenplay itself.
Nimoy claims in his autobio that he warned Shatner that he needed a good story before he started everything else, but that Shatner blew him off. Whether you believe this or not is up to you.
I thought the effects were kind of second-rate too. Of course, ILM was working on two other big projects at the time, but still, they could have got someone other than the people they did.
Sybok's hair gets cut sometime between Nimbus III and Sha-Ka-Ree.
When the ship reaches the "planet" at the center of the universe, everybody breathes out the name of Utopia that Sybok quoted to Kirk earlier. General Koord says "Qui'Tu" like he's supposed to, but the first time I heard it, it sounded like he said QE2. It made me wonder when he had time to vacation on Earth in a 500 year old cruise ship.
(A slip of the brain - "center of the galaxy")
It would really be a conversational movie if they went to the center of the universe.
I guess to save money, the creators chose Associates and Ferren, who did the FX for "Altered States." The problem was, the film was shot in Hollywood, and the FX were done in Long Island. There probably was no one to keep an eye on what thay were doing, they were separated by distance. At least they didn't give Robert Alel and Associates a second chance.
On board #1 someone said something along the lines of "how did the farmer know that Sybok was a Vulcan and not a Romulen. You can't walk up to someone and say, 'Hey, aren't you from Rhode Island?'." Actually, Ive gone up to people I've never met before and asked, "I'm sorry, but are you from Long Island?" This is where I was born. Most of the time, I'm right, and they are. Whether its the way they carry themselves, or something in their face, I can sometimes tell. Maybe the Dog could tell that the Laughing Vulcan was a Vulcan the same way...
Although it has its faults, this movie DOES have some good lines...
Scotty: "USS Enterprise, shakedown crew's report: I think this new ship was put together by monkeys!"
Chekov: "Sulu, look, the suns come out...its a miracle!" (This is my favorite scene of the movie, the helm and navigation offficers of the best crew in the fleet get lost :-) )
Guy on Video Screen: "Beam on down!"
I agree. This movie had really great lines.
SPOCK: As you are so fond of pointing out doctor, I'm half human.
MCCOY: Well it certainly doesn't show.
SPOCK: Thank you.
MCCOY: If I'm not careful I'll start talking to myself.
KIRK: 500 points of interest in Yosemite and you pick me! Why don't you go pester Dr. McCoy for a while.
SPOCK: I believe that Dr. McCoy is not in the best of moods.
(cut to Bones)
MCCOY: God D*** irresponsible!! PLAYING GAMES WITH LIFE!!!
SULU: Actually it's my first attempt.
SPOCK: Please captain. Not in front of Klingons.
SULU: We've been caught in a.... we've been caught in a blizzard.
SCOTTY: I know this ship like the back of me hand. *CLANG*
KIRK: Look at it this way. We'll get a good work out.
MCCOY: yeah! Or a heart attack.
KIRK: I thought I was going to die.
SPOCK: Impossible. You were never alone.
SPOCK: It appears we're too heavy.
KIRK: Must be all those marshmellons.
Speaking of that last one. What exactly is it with the word "marshmellons"? Is that a regional term? I thought they were called "marshmallows"
GREAT MOMENTS:
>> McCoy's conversation with his father was very moving.
>> Spock's birth was also moving. It looked like Spock was ready to cry when he realized that Sarek didn't like Spock's human half from the very beginning.
>> Chekov and Sulu follow Klaa's girlfriend through the banquet commenting on her "wonderful muscles" until she goes near Klaa and they do a very abrupt spin in the opposite direction.
I've heard that one of the extras in the battle scene at the beginning of this movie is Jeff Cook, guitarist for the country rock band Alabama and a friend of Shatner's. Can anyone confirm this?
Spock: Captain ...
Kirk: Spock, we're on leave, you can call me Jim.
Spock: Jim ...
Kirk: Yes, Spock?
Spock: "Life" is not a dream.
Kirk: Go to sleep, Spock.
Spock: Yes, Captain.
Spock is amazingly adept at administering his famous "Vulcan Neck Pinch" by blinking out that horse-like creature inside Paradise City. The "sleep switch" must be glaringly obvious on all creatures great and small to Vulcan eyes.
According to "I Am Spock", Shatner originally wanted Spock to wrestle the horse. Nimoy's response was that Vulcans possess an in-depth knowledge of equine anatomy.
I think my explaination is much more conceivable. Spock MUST possess a "Vulcan-Only" ability to detect the precise place to administer "the pinch" on ANY life-form due to his Vulcan heritage. Its the only viable reason that makes any sense. Otherwise, he just got "lucky" dozens of times in the past.
It is interesting to note that this movie shows there is a Great Barrier at the center of the galaxy. There is also The Barrier at the edge of the galaxy in "Where No Man Has Gone Before" (TOS). Should galaxies have such barriers to begin with? If so, then I suggest that they each had there own "big bang" (so-to-speak).
If the neck-pinch is a Vulcan-only ability, how is Data able to do it in Unification?
Good point. It must, therefore be a learned skill. In that case, Spock must have a "Neck-Pinch pressure point" guidebook stored in the computer memory somewhere, or else he contains it all in that voluminous brain of his.
But back to my original argument. I don't think I said that Vulcans are the only ones who can apply "the pinch". I believe I said that they are the only ones who can plainly see the "pressure-point" on any creature of the galaxy. This is implied when Spock, startled by the horse-like creature, subdues it with a pinch to the back of its mane. He could only know this by commiting it to memory, or just by seeing it plainly on the beast.
Data, on the other hand, actually can commit all the known pressure points to memory and access them in an instant. (assuming he has read-write ability).
If Spock must also commit them to memory, then Dr. Noonian Singh should have tried to create an android Vulcan! (maybe he did)
I've created a "Vulcan Neck Pinch" discussion board because I think this subject is worth delving into more deeply. Please continue your thoughts there.
This movie shows there is a Great Barrier at the center of the galaxy. There is also The Barrier at the edge of the galaxy in "Where No Man Has Gone Before" (TOS). Should galaxies have such barriers to begin with?
Why, yes they should. Without the double barrier, there would be baby galaxies all over the place!
I would hope that by the twenty-third century, that nasty, filthy weed called tobacco would be eradicated. People would know better than to smoke it. St. John Talbot proves me wrong. (If it is not tobacco he is smoking, than maybe it's the funny stuff.) Also, I am sure this has been said before but-Buy stock in Levi Strauss Co., the favorite camping blue jean of Starfleet officers on shore leave. (Personally, the $14.95 pair of American Outpost jeans fit me better than any Levi's)
Maybe that have created tobacco that is not harmful by the 23rd century?
Re: Tobacco in the twenty-third century
Tobacco seems to have still been around during the time of the U.S.S. Horizon. At least they appear to have introduced the custom to the Iotians. When Kirk and co. first meet Bela Oxmyx, he is puffing on a butt - the only denizen of the twenty-third century, apart from the previously mentioned nit, that we ever see engaging in such an activity.
How do we know it's tobacco per se, not just something the Iotians have adopted from their home planet to mimic the act of smoking?
This "Great Barrier" thing should be considered. If, in the episode "Where No Man Has Gone Before", there is a barrier at the edge of the galaxy that has metaphysical re-percusions if it is crossed, why in this movie if "The GREAT BARRIER" at he center of the galaxy is crossed there is absolutely NO ill effects to the crew?
Scotty: (to Koord) Would you care for a wee nip of Scotch whiskey? (to Uhura) I never thought I�d ever be drinking with a Klingon!
Didn't Scotty drink with Klingons in "The Trouble with Tribbles", which is why they got into a bar-fight after the Klingon said "the Enterprise should be hauled away AS garbage".
They weren't drinking together really, they were just in the same bar.
Don't forget-the Klingon came over to Scotty's table soused and looking for a fight. (He sure got one.)
So many nits, so little time.
Is it *possible* those numbers inside the turboshaft aren't deck numbers? Maybe they're designations for Jeffries' tubes entrances/exits which just happened to be in that order? Other entrances/exits would have different numbers. It would be complicated, depending on the locations and functions of each tube.
Is the mountain Kirk climbed, El Capitan? It's such an obvious pun, captain and Capitan. I should hope they used it. It would be one of the few good things.
At the center of the galaxy, there shoulda been an automated sentry/alarm on the planet to warn trespassers to stay away. Even an artificial intelligence computer which only wakes up when starships approach.
Somebody quoted some good lines, except some of them are in connection with terrible nits.
Why would Sarek object to Spock's looking so human? Why would Spock have a ruddy complexion? Since his blood is green, he'd have a greenish complexion and he *wouldn't* look very human. Why would Spock remember it? Why wouldn't some Vulcan therapist have dealt with this issue when Spock gets old enough to discuss such things?
Why wouldn't Spock use the neck pinch on Sybok? Why wouldn't Sybok think to use shoulder pads to prevent neck pinches? In "Starship Mine" Picard uses the neck pinch on one of the terrorists, so humans can learn it.
Sulu had never landed a shuttle in a shuttle bay manually? Wouldn't this be part of Academy training exercises?
At the end Kirk pats his chest and says, "Maybe God is in here." That could be taken as either secular humanism or religiosity. Would it be so terrible if we find out for sure the beliefs of each of the regulars? This would have been a good time to find out. And the beliefs don't have to be anything conventional.
"I'm a Unitarian and a Shinto on alternate weeks, so I'll be experiencing two different afterlives, a week at a time, on alternate weeks, for all eternity."
Okay, that one sounds a bit silly, but...
anyway, I keep thinking back to when Roddenberry said he wanted to be so controversial and shake things up, and we get this movie instead.
Yes, it was El Capitan.
warmed peas (eeew!... no offense intended)-
There *was* an automated/sentry alarm around the planet, it was called The Great Barrier.
Derf-
I know you asked the question a while back... But why should the Great Barrier and the barrier at the edge of the galaxy have identical properties? Oceans and lakes are very different (not just in size, but in composition). And anyway, the Great Barrier (as I understand it) is an artificial construct (and an illusion at that), designed to keep people away from the planet.
I have now officially spent too much time thinking about ST5.
Why do Kirk and McCoy refer to "marshmellons"? Spock is understandable. However, for Kirk and McCoy to call them that is a nit, considering that they are "marshmallows".
"Little mellons of flavor" is all I can think of. Or, the ritual of "roasting marshmallows" had become so arcaine by the 23rd century that it was mis-interpreted as "marshmellons". (After all, us 21st century folk have trouble with the "Thee and Thou" language of the middle-ages.
About the deck numbers- I doubt that they could be something else, as far as I could tell they all said "deck" above the number.(if the labels just had a number then they could mean anything.)
>>And anyway, the Great Barrier (as I understand it) is an artificial construct (and an illusion at that), designed to keep people away from the planet.
I saw no "onscreen" proof that it was an artificial construct. (the "illusion" can be attributed to the Enterprise flying through it with no ill effects, but doesn't mean it is an illusion) The only thing the "God-like" being said was "an eternity I've been imprisoned in this place." That does not necessarily mean it was artificially constructed.
As far as the argument for similar properties of both barriers not being a factor, that holds merit. I concede that the barrier at the center would (more likely than not) have dis-similar properties than those at the edge. If only for the fact that those properties at the center have not spent eons of time flying through space and would have aquired other properties.
As for Kirk and McCoy saying "marshmellons" instead of "marshmellows," it's not a nit, they're just chiding Spock.
There's talk now about a re-vamped DVD version of this movie with better sfx and added scenes that were originally deleted because they looked really fake. (Along with STTMP DVD)
The only "deleted-fake" scenes I can recall is the rockman scene at the end. Shatner described the rockman as "looking really fake" in his movie memoir book. I don't know if I want to see those scenes in a movie. Perhaps they will be one of those DVD "added bonuses". However, if computer enhancement is as advanced as I think it is, then those added scenes would be fun to watch. (if only to try and pick out the computer-enhanced part - there are only a couple of still photos of the rockman in the book)
Re: These special edition DVD's of the first six movies-That is why I am holding off buying them. Are there going to be special editions of all of the first six at some point?
I have two of the "marshmelon dispensers" that were sold (for a buck each, I think) as a cross-promotion between Kraft marshmallows and ST V. Are they worth anything now? At a buck each,
I didn't finish. I wanted to say "At a buck each, I should have ordered more than two."
All scenes where Sybok says "your pain runs deep" are done one-on-one. This film shows Sybok entering Paradise City amidst a throng of followers. It probably took him a very, very long time to pain-share with each one, unless he taught a few of his closer disciples how to do it. Then again, there are always some followers who are just along for the ride, and didn't get the treatment from Sybok.
SHADES OF TOS!
Remember that 3 pronged device Spock used in "Metamorphosis" to fix the shuttlecraft?
It's the same one Scotty used to fix the impulse drive on the Constellation in "The Doomsday Machine"
Well.....guess what?
When the red alert signal goes off in this movie, Scotty says, "I just fixed that @#$% thing" and begins to walk to the communications panel...when he does, he passes by a repairman who has the TOS 3 pronged instrument from "Metamorphosis" & "The Doomsday Machine" !!!!!!!!!
This scene from ST-TMP holds interest for ST5:
Kirk: Spock � Mr. Spock � (Spock faces Kirk revealing tears in his eyes) Not for us?
Spock: No, Captain, not for us. For V�ger. I weep for V�ger as I would for a brother.
Spock however, in this movie actualy DOES lose a brother, but has no scene showing him weeping for him. The closest we get to it is his saddened musings in the forward observation lounge. Perhaps age and experience has taught him to weep on the inside.
Evidently, reputation has a more commanding influence on Kronos than does physical prowess. Klaa is obviously more physically fit than Koord, yet yields to him, even to the point of appearing sheepish in front of Kirk.
"Evidently, reputation has a more commanding influence on Kronos than does physical prowess. Klaa is obviously more physically fit than Koord, yet yields to him. . ."
Not necessarily. I've known some shihan's (a teachers-teacher 4th-degree black or above) in martial arts who look like weak or flabby old men. Some of the guys who look the weakest are deceptively talented and powerful. (In fact one of those Shihan's used to do side-blocks full power against door frames for extended periods of time). In one of his classes, he asked me to hit him. Not even trying hard, he was able to block me and hurt my arms. At full power he could have easily broken them. I am a 24 year old brown belt, quite fit. He is about 60. If you saw him on the street, you'd think he'd be a pushover, but I would NEVER want to fight the guy.
Also, Koord is Klaa's superior officer and Klaa has performed acts that bring the honor of the Empire into question. IMHO, Klaa is lucky that he was not killed for bringing dishonor to the Empire.
It was remarkable Klaa's "sheepish act" in front of Kirk that made me wonder how much a Klingon's past glories (reputation) was weighed by a subordinate when the Klingon High Command evidently gave Koord the "lowly" task of being the Klingon consul on Nimbus III to the point of him drinking himself to death.
Alluded to in the Encyclopedia, it suggests that Klaa was later assigned to be Kirk and McCoy's English (Federation Standard?) translator at their trial in the following movie, quicker than you can say "fall from grace"...
(Although Todd Bryant does play both parts)
And on a different subject, isn't there supposed to be a massive black hole in the centre of the Galaxy?
(Now that would explain *everything*......)
not in this galaxy ... (as a certain someone might say, this galaxy doesn't deal in reality)
Creative consultant: "Hey Bill, isn't there a massive black hole at the center of the galaxy?"
Shatner: "Nobody's been there to prove me wrong ... go with it."
I liked this movie more than most, despite it's mistakes. The Campfire scene was a nice poignant moment.
A couple nits I remember is that Kirk tries to signal Starfleet with "To anyone within the sound of my voice..." which technically would just be Spock and McCoy standing near him...
He ends his supposed conversation with Starfleet with "Roger Starfleet!"
"Roger"???? didn't "Roger" go out with CB radios?
We then find that he has been talking to the Klingons pretending to be Starfleet and the Captain orders corrodinates starting with three zeros but he says it in Klingon as "Pah,pah,pah..."
In Star Trek: The Next Generation on the episode I forget the name of where Riker temporarily serves on a Klingon ship that ship is named the "Pah".
So the Klingons named there ship "Zero"?
Boy, wouldn't THAT be great for morale! Klingon Captain (In Klingon): The is the Imperial Klingon Ship Zero! Alien Captain (After translation): You name your ship "Loser!?"
Or was in TNG it called "Pagh." Probably something like that serpent dish they ate, which was, I think, Gagh. Maybe Pagh is Klingon for "Serpent with very big, nasty teeth, but yummy."
This was the last film in which we saw a (relatively) thin Shatner. In "VI" and "Generations" he seems to be in a race with Jimmy Doohan over who will get the biggest gut.
Re: Tobacco-In the introduction to the first VHS release of "The Cage" in 1986, Roddenberry points out a "No Smoking" sign in the Transporter Room set used for the movies.
The decorated t-shirt and sweatshirt is still in style in the 23rd century; see Kirk's "Go Climb A Rock" early on.
>>The Klingon Captain orders coordinates starting with three zeros but he says it in Klingon as "Pah,pah,pah..."
I don't hear that ... I hear "Plah, Plah, Plah", now I do not own (nor ever will own) a Klingon dictionary, so I may be wrong is this assertion. I'm just going by what I think Captain Klaa actually says.
The Klingon ship in "A Matter of Honor" is the IKS Pagh.
Isn't "pagh" a Bajoran word?
As in "your pagh will cross with mine one day" or something?
>Isn't "pagh" a Bajoran word? <
Yes, it's something like a person's aura. But the same word can have different meanings in different languages. Like the word pronounced "see". In English it means to visualize something. In Spanish it means "yes" or "or."
In Spaninsh I think it's "Si".
Yes, but my point is that both sound alike. I haven't seen the Klingon or the Bajoran pagh spelled on the shows, so they may be spelled different, but sound alike. Do you understand what I'm trying to say?
He ain't too bright. Don't even try to explain it to him ;)
I know!! ... (hand raised in air with the ooo - ooo! sound)
Words like stare and stair (sound alike - spelled different)
Or tear and tear - (spelled the same - sound different)
Who's to say that two different planetary species don't have words with these qualities?
Very good, student! You get a cookie!
Unfortunatly, the Star Trek Encyclopedia has both the spiritual energy and the Klingon ship spelled "Pagh." But this doesn't mean much either, since words that are spelled the same don't necessarily mean the same thing. For example, in German, "die" means "the" while in English it means "to cease to live." It doesn't take too much of a streach of the imagination to see where two words meaning different things but being spelled and pronounced the same could crop up.
Oh! An example of this from DS9 itself is that Sean means "swamp" in Bajoran!
Not to mention what "Sikes" means in Tenctonese. (Alien Nation)
just to complicate matters, I'd like to point out that most of the European languages are related. So it isn't absurd to have words that are spelled similarly.
However, we are talking about races that evolved on different planets, so their languages shouldn't be related.
Then again, that one episode of TNG said all Humanoid races are related, so perhaps the language was somehow encoded in the genes.
But also, the written Bajoran and the written Klingon probably don't use ENGLISH characters, so, the fact that, in English, they are spelled the same way doesn't mean that in the respective languages they are spelled the same way (actually for them to be spelled the same way in Klingon and Bajoran would require that the Klingon and Bajoran alphabets be exactly the same, or at least very similar)
Got all that?
pagh-- 1) nothing, none (noun) 2) or, either/or [joining sentences](conjunction) 3) zero (number)
The inference that one planetary language is in their OWN alphabetic characters is precisely the point. (refer to the english/other language/english translations of TOS episode titles for a hilarious example) Translation by nature is a transference of the literal meaning of the given text to the nearest literal meaning in the target language. There may also be an attempt at a contextual interpretation. For instance, the spanish "Dos Gringos" might be interpreted as "Two Dudes" in a contextual sense.
I don't know why, but I was supposed to be viewed as "Derf, the self aclaimed Pagh" ... (maybe I shouldn't have used quote marks in the username)
No, but you should have spelled "acclaim" correctly. ;p
Twue, quite twue ... I should haff spelt acclaim cowectwee
For example, the English exclamation "Lo!" and the Hebrew word for no ("lo") are both spelled the same in English, but there is obviously no connection. The English and Hebrew alphabets are different.
[sigh]
I love the movie Star Trek V , I think Melanie Shatner in the movie looks beautiful, Is she half or fully Jewish? She is the Daughter of William Shatner?
She is ... in the book "Movie Memories" written by Shatner he says it was one of the few times she listened to him.
This film has a number of badly lit scenes.
Sybok, "Each man hides a secret pain." Just one? Wimps.
Jet boots. Okayyyyyyyy, what about Spock's center of gravity? If a strong breeze were to hit him, he would unbalance & suddenly be rocketed in a direction he doesn't want to go.
Why would the Romulans & Klingons be interested in sharing a colony with the Federation? Also shouldn't there have been Klingon & Romulan colonists on that planet? (Well maybe the 3-breasted tigerwoman was from Klingon or Romulan space?)
In the Classic Guide Phil comments about the 20 years ago that Nimbus III was established. Maybe Caitlin was talking about Romulan years, not Earth years?
Kirk, "I've always known that I'd die alone." He was wrong.
Kirk mentions the song, "Moon over Rye-gul VII." Assuming the planet's name is spelled Rigel, then shouldn't he have pronounced it Rye-jul instead?
The Klingon Korrd is captured. So why didn't he commit suicide?
Poor shuttle design. Crewman have to bring a flight of steps over so Kirk & co. don't have to jump down from the nacelle. Which is what the shuttle occupants would have to do if they landed on a planet.
Why would a piece of a neon sign still be glowing after it had been broken off?
So is the tigerwoman dead? Floating face down in water for too long is bad for continued breathing.
Korrd, "If my people are cloaked then they mean to attack." In a NextGen ep (The Emissary?) the head of the High Council says something about how it is dishonorable to attack without showing your face.
Why does the Enterprise have to drop ALL shields. (Poor ship design) In Classic Trek we kept hearing how they could lose Port shields or Aft shields implying that the shields were down in one area but up in another.
Kirk just yells at Spock to shoot Sybok. Why not get up & attack Sybok from behind?
Why wasn't Spock's center of gravity really thrown off when he is just holding Kirk while using those jet boots?
Sybok, "Columbus proved the world was round." No he didn't. Most scholars of the time accepted that the world was round.
Considering the number of Gods (Apollo, Vaal) & godlike creatures (Trelane, Platonians) they've encountered why weren't Kirk, Spock & McCoy a bit more skeptical.
Ships & probes have been lost trying to pass the great barrier, but the Enterprise passes through without a problem. So what happened to those earlier ships & probes?
Okay, earlier Sybok said something that God told him where to find Sha-Ka-Ree from which I inferred that "God" had been in telepathic contact with Sybok & possibly told him how to get safely past the barrier. However, when they meet "God", he doesn't seem to know who Sybok is.
When Kirk, McCoy and Spock try to climb a turbo shaft, Spock goes off and gets his jet boots. Then when he finally joins them, he descends on them from down. So ....why not use the route Spock used to get up since it was obviously shorter.
Trivia Question: What actor was originally intended for the role of Sybok? (Hint: Sha Ka Ree is a distortion of his name. Answer at the end of my nits.)
What's will all the @#$%^& cursin'? Phil noted that the level of profanity rises in this movie. I would point out that Kirk�s understanding of the slang obscenities improves too. He apparently didn�t know what an "ass" meant in the previous movie, because, when the disgruntled motorist called him a "dumb ass", Kirk retorted, "Double dumb ass on you!", thinking the word "ass" was some generic curse, rather than slang for a part of the body. Now, all of a sudden, he tells Spock in the brig that he ought to knock him on his "goddamn ass", and Spock and Bones both seem to understand exactly what he means. Did the three of them look up the word in a slang dictionary when they returned from the past in the previous movie?
I think the director of this film should get decked Regarding the deck number nit, The Star Trek Encyclopedia even has deck charts for the Enterprises, including the A, and the decks do indeed go from deck 1 (the bridge) on down.
And you�re an ugly bald guy with no teeth. What�s your point? In the beginning of the movie, when J�Onn, the bald settler who first encounters Sybok, sees his pointed ears, he exclaims, "You�re a Vulcan?!" Why didn�t J�Onn simply assume Sybok was a Romulan? By this point in the Trek timeline, Romulans don�t have the enlarged cranium that they have in NextGen.
Live long and get tanked In "Requiem for Methuselah", Bones asked Kirk if the two of them could handle a drunk Vulcan, alluding to whether or not they should give Spock Saurian brandy. But at the first campout in the beginning of this movie, when Kirk wonders if Spock can handle Tennessee whiskey in Bone�s beans, Bones laughs it off, saying that Spock, with his Vulcan metabolism, could eat anything and suffer no ill effects. For a doctor versed in various alien species his assessment of Spock�s metabolism sure has changed.
Identity Crisis Spock sure is waffling on the whole "am I human or not" issue. He informed Bones in Spectre of the Gun, that he is actually half human when the doctor said he wasn�t human. Then, at the end of ST II, when Bones said no human could survive in the irradiated area of engineering, Spock repisodelied that he is not human. Now, during the campout, when Bones compliments Spock�s Vulcan metabolism, Spock says that as the doctor is so fond of pointing out, he is also half human. I think the various creators of these episodes and movies should get together, compare notes, and decide whether or not Spock considers himself human.
If a tree falls in the woods on top of two morons, does anyone give a d@mn? How the hell can Sulu and Chekov get lost in the park? What ever happened to electronic satellite mapping technology? Do GPS systems go out of style in the 23rd century?
So that�s why there�s a gallon of sweat in my boots! And when they get lost, Uhura says her viewer says the weather is sunny, and 70 degrees. Aren�t Sulu and Chekov dressed a bit heavily for 70 degree weather?
Carpooling on a starship? Admiral "Bob" tells Kirk that there are no experienced captains in the area of Nimbus III. Of course there aren�t! How could there be if Starfleet keeps putting two captains on each ship? Why are Kirk and Spock on the Enterprise? They�re both captains!
A hands-on kinda guy After Kirk and crew, disguised as the lookout party, is discovered by Sybok�s bald companion, J�Onn, Kirk yells out to his team, "Phasers on stun." Curiously, however, Kirk takes a couple of natives hand to hand.
One life down, eight to go! I know cats supposedly don�t getting wet, but I didn�t know it acted as an anesthetic on them. After being attacked in the bar by the cat dancer, Kirk hurls her into a tank of water, and for some odd reason, this renders her unconscious.
Maybe they�ll get lucky and the Federation President will be the judge on their case and acquit them too There�s a question that is raised in this movie, but left unanswered. Is Sybok�s pain-catharsis power coercive, like brainwashing, or is it passive, leaving the recipients in control of their faculties and actions? At first, I naturally thought it was the former, because it causes the three ambassadors, as well as Sulu, Chekov, and Uhura to betray Kirk, which they would never do, but then, when Spock and Bones are exposed to it, they remain sided with Kirk. Are Spock and Bones possessed of exceptional willpower and mental stoicism? Spock perhaps, but Bones? But if it�s not coercive, then St. John, Sulu, Uhura, and Chekov should be brought up on charges of treason and mutiny by Starfleet.
Let's hope the audience doesn't notice
Kirk says that no ship has ever breached the Great Barrier, yet the Enterprise and Captain Klaa�s Bird of Prey do just that going in and returning from it! Curiously, no one ever explains how they do this, though Brent Frankenhoff, an associate editor of The Comic Buyer�s Guide, mentioned in an issue that the movie�s novelization allocated a couple of pages to explaining it.
Don�t know much about history In trying to convince Kirk and Spock of the existence of Sha Ka Ree, Sybok points out all the other impossibilities, myths, and barriers in history that were broken or proven to be untrue, noting the "fact" that Columbus proved the Earth was round. This is a myth. Columbus found quicker shipping routes to China, and was trying to prove that the circumference of the Earth was not what some thought it was. The spherical shape of the Earth, however, was already generally accepted long before 1492, and dates back to 400 BC, when Aristotle presented a convincing argument that the Earth was round, based on the shape of the shadow that falls on the Moon during a lunar eclipse. Later, Eratosthenes, another Greek thinker, assuming the Earth to be spherical, figured out a fairly accurate value for its circumference and diameter in 240 BC. By 1492, the shape of the Earth was commonly known. The fact that a ship�s sails would be seen first when approaching over the horizon, and last when departing, was another reasoning for this conclusion. The circular shape of the Earth�s shadow on the moon was another. Even the Catholic Church said it was round. There are even photographs of globes that survived into the age of photography, dated to the time before Columbus� famous journey. The notion that Columbus proved this when he sailed to the Americas is a myth that was created by The Legend of Sleepy Hollow author Washington Irving, in a biography of Columbus that he wrote in 1828.
He�s just likes to blow stuff up Why does Spock act as gunner on the Klingon ship at the end of the movie? Were they short-handed or something? Or is their aim really that bad? Klaa did a fairly good job at destroying Pioneer 10 at the beginning of the movie. Was it that hard to pinpoint an energy being on the planet that was causing a beam a light to project outward into space?
Challenging the Caped Crusader is futile This movie faired poorly at the box office, in part because it went up against Batman. Interestingly, the name of the Ed Koch lookalike mayor in that film was "Borg!"
He left when the screenwriter refused to let Sybok sleep with every female character in the movie.
Trivia Answer: Sean Connery
warmed peas: Is it *possible* those numbers inside the turboshaft aren't deck numbers?
Luigi Novi: One of the reference books confirmed that they WERE deck numbers, and that Shatner wanted them to get higher from bottom to top as the trio raced upward with the gravity boots to make it more dramatic.
warmed peas: Is the mountain Kirk climbed, El Capitan?
Luigi Novi: Yes. Spock mentions it in the very beginning of the movie when Kirk is still on the rock face, when he says the record for climbing El Capitan is in no danger of being broken.
warmed peas: Why would Spock remember [his own birth]?
Luigi Novi: I wonder if this was just a manifestation of Spock's worst suspicions/fears about his father, rather than an event that actually occured and that Spock witnessed and remembered.
Derf: Evidently, reputation has a more commanding influence on Kronos than does physical prowess. Klaa yields to Koord.
Luigi Novi: Koord is a general. He outranks Klaa.
Duke Schnookums: And on a different subject, isn't there supposed to be a massive black hole in the centre of the Galaxy?
Luigi Novi: According to a October 8, 1997 New York Times cover story, the Hubble Telescope's infrared camea detected a massive star at the center of the galaxy called the Pistol Star, whose discovery was announced the previous day. It is the largest star known to exist, the size of our entire solar system up to Earth, and its gaseous eruptions produce nebula spanning four light years (the shape of which inspired the star's name).
margie: Isn't "pagh" a Bajoran word?
Luigi Novi: Look the word pronounced "kee". In English, it's a device for opening a lock. In Italian, it means "who". In Greek, it's a letter of the alphabet. In China, it refers to one's lifeforce.
Keith Alan Morgan: Kirk, "I've always known that I'd die alone." He was wrong.
Luigi Novi: To me, dying with total strangers is the same as dying alone. Kirk died not while surrounded by Spock and Bones and all his friends, but with some stranger from 78 years in his future on a strange planet, after fighting some loser of a villain. For all PRACTICAL intents and purposes, he did die alone. Another good example was when Vorrin died at the end of "Homeward"(TNG). Picard regretted his death. When Troi pointed out that he would've died on his planet had Nikolai obeyed his orders not to violate the Prime Directive and bring the Boraalans onto the Enterprise, Picard responded that at least then, he wouldn't have died alone, and afraid. Obviously, there were people keeping Vorrin company, Troi was probably trying to counsel him, etc., so he wasn't LITERALLY alone, but in essence, Vorrin he was.
KAM: Koord is captured. So why didn't he commit suicide?
Luigi Novi: He was too drunk. He forgot how. 
KAM: Koord, "If my people are cloaked then they mean to attack." In (The Emissary?) the head of the High Council says something about how it is dishonorable to attack without showing your face.
Luigi Novi: Right. They show their faces when they decloak.
KAM: Kirk just yells at Spock to shoot Sybok. Why not get up & attack Sybok from behind?
Luigi Novi: You know how directors always like to get underlings to do things for them...
rene, descending by its definition means to come from above, not below (what you call 'down').
and interrogative statements should end in a question mark.
Thanks for pointing out the mistake. I was correcting my sentence and forgot to delete the "from down" part. Silly me Just take out the "from down" part and my nit still stands.
As for the cursing. Shatner was not only the director but he was also one of the writers. I'll give you one guess on who put in all of Kirk's cursen
I wonder if the writer spelt J'Onn's name that way as a tribute to J'Onn J'Onz, the Martian Manhunter?
Luigi - Aren�t Sulu and Chekov dressed a bit heavily for 70 degree weather?
What's the wind chill factor? ;-)
The temperature may read 70, but how it feels is dependent on factors like wind & shade.
How could there be if Starfleet keeps putting two captains on each ship? Why are Kirk and Spock on the Enterprise? They�re both captains!
Scotty became captain in Star Trek III. ;-)
About why Spock & Bones could remain loyal to Kirk. Sybok did say that Kirk, Spock & Bones had a special connection to each other. (I assume this is why all three could see Bones & Spock's 'memories'.) Also Bones & Spock did seem to go along with Sybok until Kirk made his little speech. Even then it seemed that Bones might go with Sybok. So I would say Sybok's 'power' was coercive, but only so long as there was no one else around to talk them out of it.
It is the largest star known to exist, the size of our entire solar system up to Earth.
Well, that's not very big. 183 million miles wide? I believe both Antares & Betelguese are 600 million miles wide. I did read that astronomers had detected a sun spot on Betelguese that was the size of Earth's orbit.
Luigi Novi: Aren�t Sulu and Chekov dressed a bit heavily for 70 degree weather?
Keith Alan Morgan: What's the wind chill factor? ;-)
The temperature may read 70, but how it feels is dependent on factors like wind & shade
Luigi Novi: There did not appear to be any wind at all, and if there was, Uhura would've mentioned it when reading the weather off her console.
Luigi Novi: How could there be if Starfleet keeps putting two captains on each ship? Why are Kirk and Spock on the Enterprise? They�re both captains!
KAM: Scotty became captain in Star Trek III. ;-)
Luigi Novi: I don't recall it, but even if it's true, 1. Scotty is captain in rank only, as he tells Geordi in Relics, and 2. He's in engineering. Spock is a command officer.
Luigi Novi: The Pistol Star is the largest star known to exist, the size of our entire solar system up to Earth.
KAM: Well, that's not very big. 183 million miles wide? I believe both Antares & Betelguese are 600 million miles wide. I did read that astronomers had detected a sun spot on Betelguese that was the size of Earth's orbit.
Luigi Novi: Really? I guess the NY Times screwed up. Heads will role...
Luigi Novi (on Wednesday 9th): Spock repisodelied that he is not human.
Me: Repisodelied????
Luigi probably did a search&replace on ep => episode.
I thought that one of the largest known stars was Epsilon Aurigae at a few *Billion* miles across (exact numbers escape me at the moment).
Umm...Luigi, if you read the messages more carefully, you'll realize it was Nine Sven who said, "Isn't pagh a Bajoran word?" I was repeating the statement to answer it. Please be more accurate. (See your 5/9 3 PM post)
Oh, and basically, your answer was a repeat of what I had already answered. (See my 4/13 6:35 AM post). Are repeats of posts really necessary uses of space?
Sorry about the wrongly attributed quote, margie.
As for the content, hey, why can't more than one person offer their view on something, even if it's the same view? Besides, I've seen posts with material far less deserving of space than what I posted. To each his own, I say.
And yes, Scott, I did do a search and replace with ep & episode, some time ago when I didn't understand all the ramifications and quirks of that command. I've fixed most of the mutilated words in that document, but some are still there. I also thought I proofread my post before posting it, and I don't know how that one got past me.