Can this whole movie be considered a nit?

By Ed Jefferson (Ejefferson) on Wednesday, December 09, 1998 - 02:12 pm:

I think that's a bit harsh, there are good scenes.
Well a couple anyway.

By Rebekah Bunch on Wednesday, December 09, 1998 - 03:36 pm:

I've been wondering why there were no nits here yet, if it maybe just wasn't considered real sport in this case. I think I'm with APN on this one. But I have two specific nits and one possible anti-nit.

In the cutesy scene in the tube where Spock shows up with the anti-grav boots, we see him trying to give a lift to Kirk and McCoy, only the combined weight is too much and they sink. I find it hard to believe that, #1, these devices do not come with some kind of rating as to how much weight they could hold and #2, that Spock would not know what that rating was.

Sarek was married to a Vulcan princess? Granted, there is not a whole lot in canon as to the specific form of Vulcan government, but this bit always grates on me. Is Vulcan a monarchy? Would logical Vulcans maintain a politically defunct, ceremonial monarchy the way the British do? I just can't figure what role a princess would have in Vulcan society.

So about this brother of Spock's (forgot the guy's name already), he was full Vulcan and rejected logic. I'm a little surprised that Sarek would risk another illogical offspring by marrying a human. But it does explain why Sarek was so harsh on Spock. See if you can think about Spock's brother (but not the actual movie) next time you watch Journey to Babel and it might even improve an already great episode.

By A.P.N. on Wednesday, December 09, 1998 - 05:17 pm:

What I meant to say was...
Gene Roddenberry, after ST:V was released, didn't like how it looked and fought to have the whole movie labeled "non-canon." That's why I thought we could consider it a giant nit.

Also, whenever I watch this movie, (especially the scenes in Vegas-town) I can't help but think of TNG's "Disaster"- the one where the little girl stuck with Picard in the Turbolift, who suggested the song "The Laughing Vulcan and his Dog" - Sybok and his sidekicks?

By Mf on Thursday, December 10, 1998 - 12:24 pm:

A lot of people are really down on this movie because much of it was so corny. But it had some great classic Trek elements: Uhura (but not Nichelle, damn it!) sang, Chekov and Sulu played off each other, Kirk used his space-karate . . . and it explored the characters, too - - Spock relived the pain of his father's rejection - - yet was able to reject Sybok because he was now, after so many years, at peace with himself. And De Kelly got to do something he hasn't done in years - Act. Watch him as he confronts the euthenasia of his father.

By Ed Jefferson (Ejefferson) on Thursday, December 10, 1998 - 02:37 pm:

Yeah, but let's be thankful for small mercies- the original script featured Satan and hell!!!

Let's also be thankful that they DID cut the rockman scenes!

By Meg Gillespie on Friday, December 11, 1998 - 08:24 pm:

there were only two point that I acually liked about this movie. One was the beginning. it was like a teaser for the origanal episodes; it gradually biult up Sybok. And i did like the scene where uhura was doing her fan dance. I liked the wasy the guy said, "damn" when he was caught

By Johnny Veitch on Monday, December 14, 1998 - 01:25 pm:

No, this whole movie can not be considered a nit. All nits picked shall derive from sources the creators consider canonical.

By Mf on Monday, December 14, 1998 - 03:14 pm:

Oh look, a quote from the Nitpicker charter. Doesn't quite have the ring of "where no man has gone before," but not bad.

By Merat on Tuesday, December 15, 1998 - 08:17 pm:

When Voyager first came out there was a big hoopla over Tuvok being the first black-Vulcan (yes, I know that they said "African-American", but that doesn't make any sense. He's from VULCAN! He is neither African nor American). In this movie, the Vulcan mid-wife is ... BLACK!

By Anonymous on Wednesday, December 16, 1998 - 02:05 am:

Why is it that alien races in science-fiction often following the same colourings we have on earth. I know we have the blue Bolians and everything but isn't political correctness going a bit too far? Why should there be black Vulcans? Why not have a race that is all black? Bet you'd never see that?

By Charles Cabe (Ccabe) on Wednesday, December 16, 1998 - 10:36 am:

What about Klingons. They are always black.

By ScottN on Wednesday, December 16, 1998 - 11:34 am:

The Ligonians (?) in TNG "Code of Honor" were mostly dark skinned.

By Mf on Wednesday, December 16, 1998 - 11:51 am:

Anybody notice the black Son'a?

But this is just a small symptom of a larger problem - the whole concept of "alien" left Trek way back when DC Fontana left TNG. There's a famous story about Gene Rodenberry grabbing the supposedly alien plant from a Trek set, flipping it upside-down, and saying "there - now it looks alien." The cultures in TOS, despite the limited makeup budget, were much more alien than those in Trek today. Journey to Babel is a nice example. "Alien" in Trek now means only "extra bump (nostril, etc) on the head." Or, at best, "typified by one characteristic - Klingon aggression, Ferengi greed, etc. Cartoons and stereotypes, no dignity, save what some of the actors can provide. "Pon Farr night at the Vulcan nightclub???" The romance of TOS harkened back to sailing days - traveling to strange, exotic, DIFFERENT places. The people writing modern Trek need to take an anthropology course.

By Anonymous on Wednesday, December 16, 1998 - 07:40 pm:

I don't agree the Klingons are all black. What about Christopher Lloyd's Klingon. True he looks a bit darker than normal but I wouldn't call him a black Klingon.

By Spockania on Wednesday, December 16, 1998 - 07:46 pm:

1) What about the species we saw in TOS "Let that be your last battlefield?"

2) Nit- at one point the klingons fake a signal from starfleet. How believable is this? The Klingons are much closer than earth, therefore the directional signal (and possibly signal strength) would be different. Or are these broken too? And is there no coding? I would expect that even if the Klingons broke the encryption, there would be an authenticator (modern forces use them). You know, one party supplies a code from a list, the othe party supplies the response code?

By Anonymous on Wednesday, December 16, 1998 - 07:52 pm:

If we have black Vulcans, how come we don't have black Romulans, given they are an offshoot of the Vulcan race?

By Anonymous on Wednesday, December 16, 1998 - 08:52 pm:

Also, the guy who plays Martok is white.

By Charles Cabe (Ccabe) on Wednesday, December 16, 1998 - 10:08 pm:

Normally, actors who play Klingons ware dark mak-up. That's what I meant in the above post.

By Triggins on Thursday, December 17, 1998 - 10:26 am:

There was a black Romulan in Pegasus

By Mf on Thursday, December 17, 1998 - 12:00 pm:

By all means make sure each and every one gets catalogued. Never mind the greater issue. Bill Shatner was right. You guys do care more about the combination to Kirk's safe than about decent writing. This is what gives Trekkies a bad name.

By Anonymous on Thursday, December 17, 1998 - 07:55 pm:

My original point was about why Earth's different race colourations just had to be found in alien races as well.

By Mf on Friday, December 18, 1998 - 12:56 pm:

The short answer is because it's politically correct, and the writers haven't given any consideration to how it affects what they're doing. See my longer comment above.

By Kyle.powderly on Tuesday, December 22, 1998 - 01:53 pm:

Mf: excellent point, and one worth considering in a discussion board all of its own...maybe send invitations to the producers and writers of ST to invite them to participate?

STV: the Shatner Show.

Two nits that pretty much define the total shoddy production in this movie:
(1) the Enterprise travels to the center of the galaxy - how long did that take? What? A few hours? A day or two? Once again, the movies clearly violate all standards of the warp speed charts.
(2) the turboshafts - all straight up and down, for one, no lateral shaft for moving across decks (as was and is done on every other Enterprise...); and the BIGGEST NIT - did you notice the deck numbering? When Spock is carrying Kirk and McCoy up the shaft on his rocket boots, the deck numbers go up as they rise, as you would in a building's elevator shaft, but NOT on board a ship where the decks are numbered from the top down. Secondly, they stop at deck 72 (seventy-something). 'Scuse me?!?!? That would make Enterprise-A thirty decks taller than the Enterprise-D.

I point out these two GLARING faults as examples of what happens when the writers, producers, director and others don't take care in their craft. STV was an example of shoddy workmanship reflected in all aspects of the effort. The only redeeming part of the movie was De Kelley's scene where McCoy is with his dying father...and that was thanks to Kelley's acting!

The reason I pick nits (and I pick 'em all over the place, having worked in television) is because I want to see the quality of the work go up. If they are writing sloppy stories, if they are shooting sloppy scenes, then the craft suffers. But if we Nitpickers are vocal in out nits, and the producers are open to our constructive comments, then all involved in creating and producing the shows and movies we watch will be forced to make a better, more intelligent effort at doing what they do.

Just my opinion...

By Shane Tourtellotte on Tuesday, December 22, 1998 - 07:39 pm:

Well, since Kyle mentioned McCoy's scene with his father ... we're shown how McCoy euthanized his father to spare him the ravages of a dread disease, then told that not long afterward, a cure was discovered. My nit is, wouldn't McCoy have known, via professional journals and the like, that a cure was in the offing? He is a doctor(he's told us that often enough): he'd have natural access to medical research, and a powerful motivation to inform himself. Unless this cure came completely out of left field, he should have seen it coming. (Unless he lost faith in their ability to discover it swiftly, thus adding a sharper edge to his guilt ... hmmm.)

By Mf on Tuesday, December 22, 1998 - 07:51 pm:

Unless such conjecture stole from the power of the scene - and it didn't - it just doesn't matter.

By D.K. Henderson on Thursday, December 24, 1998 - 10:35 am:

Was that flashback scene to Spock's birth supposed to be genuine? If it was, I don't believe it.

First off, Sarek had to care deeply for Amanda to marry her in the first place. (And phooey on it being "the logical thing to do.") In order for a red blooded, iron-based woman to give birth to a green-blooded, copper based child, they had to have worked things out pretty carefully. The conception itself would probably have had to be done outside the womb (See SPOCK'S WORLD). Then, the pregnancy would be carefully monitored all the way through. Even the birth itself would have been touchy.

So what do these logical Vulcans do? They seem to toss Amanda into a cave and have her give birth on a slab of rock! Screaming her head off, too. It would not be logical for the Vulcans to allow her to remain in pain when they had ways to alleviate it. Drugs, or more likely, Vulcan mind techniques. (After all, they aren't Klingons, who think pain is fun!) After the birth, Sarek picks up his son, whom he knows perfectly well is half human, and, in an incredible display of emotion that I don't believe for a second, says contemptously, "Human!" This in front of his wife, no less!

NEVER HAPPENED! I think Sybok put this hallucination together just to try and make Spock feel bad.

By Charles Cabe (Ccabe) on Thursday, December 24, 1998 - 11:18 am:

RE: Amanda screaming during child birth. Perhaps she insisted on a "natural" (and illogical) child-birth?

By Mf on Friday, December 25, 1998 - 11:39 am:

First, the line was "So human." It's one thing for Sarek to know the child is half-human, it's another for him to be confronted with a child, still covered in red blood, who (to him) looks human.

Besides, this is a very young Sarek - still under 100. It took another 60 years or so for him to accept his son - and even that only lasted some 30 years, as they were at odds when he died. The pain of Spock's childhood has been well documented, it, in conjunction with his exploration of his human half, is one of the things that drove him to Starfleet in the first place.

Second: Spock may have been the first human/Vulcan hybrid. If Amanda could tolerate the pain, it would be illogical to complicate an already tricky birth with drugs.

Third: it's well-established that Vulcan beliefs incorporate a great deal of mysticism. They run off to the barren wild mountains for spiritual exploration. It is thus not inconceivable that childbirth occurs in a special place. A holy place, perhaps.

Besides, most importantly, if they had set this scene in a hospital, it would have made the next scene with McCoy's dad repetitive. They did what was most important for the story, in a way that did not contradict anything already known. That's what matters.
Believe it or not, drama is far more important than technobabble.

By Stephen Mendenhall on Wednesday, February 24, 1999 - 10:22 pm:

Nobody's mentioned this one yet. The Klingons fire at an old space probe, Pioneer 10 I think.
I calculated that in 300 years, Pioneer 10 would be just about one hundred billion miles from Sol-- not even one lightyear! I don't think Starfleet would tolerate Klingons getting so close. And besides, wouldn't there be a starbase museum with tourists from all over the galaxy coming to watch one of the old space probes plod its way across the outer solar system?
Wouldn't there be a lot of old space probes from the early days of the space programs of the Terrans, Vulcans, Tellarites, Andorians, etc.? What do they do with them? Leave them? These questions are a lot more interesting than what actually happens in the movie. It's another case of lazy writing.

By Anonymous on Thursday, February 07, 2036 - 03:38 pm:

It fell through a wormhole.

By Mcheyne on Tuesday, March 02, 1999 - 07:55 pm:

This film has a neat opening, filled with action and drama (I could do without the opening scene in which Sybok recruits his farmer friend). It's not perfect, but it's fun.

As soon as Sybok commandeers the Enterprise, the film becomes a stage play, with lots of talk. It's just, just interesting at times, but sometimes, it's just BORING. Also, what is Klaa doing in the film? He helps destroy "God", but it seems as if the Klingons are added just for some "menace". It is neat, though, that it shows the Federation and the Klingons relaxing together (it is strange compared to the rampart bigotry in Star Trek VI).

Finally, a few duds:

1. The concept of a jointly run planet is fascinating, but evidently, the creators didn't think so.

2. God. Obviously, it's not. SO WHO IS HE? How does Sybok know about it? Who locked him up? Why does he claim to be God? Who is this dude?

By BF on Sunday, January 10, 1999 - 05:21 pm:

My problems with the film are:
1) 70-some decks? Come on, the Enterprise-D only
has 36.
2) How did they get to the center of the Galaxy in
such little time?
3) Why is there a planet at the center of the
Galaxy? There's suppose to be a black hole, at
least, according to the Hubble Telescope.
4) Where does the planet of Sha-Ka-Ree get its
lighting and heat source? There doesn't appear
to be a local star nearby.
Well that's all I can think of now, there are many more, maybe I'll think 'em up later...

By Charles Cabe (Ccabe) on Wednesday, March 03, 1999 - 01:02 am:

The Enterprise-D has 42 Decks. Asside from the Technical Manual, I can think of only 1 refrence to someting below deck 36. That was the mention of "Two Ensigns on deck 39" in "Captian's Holliday" and Riker was kidding around at that point. (Yes, I have no life.) 70 decks is still obsurd, though.

By BF on Wednesday, March 03, 1999 - 02:01 pm:

Oops, sorry, haven't read my TNG Tech Manual in a long time. Off the topic: They need to make an Enterprise-E manual, much like the current DS9 Manual like they have now, it's the best ship they've ever designed.

By Rodnberry on Saturday, January 16, 1999 - 08:36 am:

About only black Klingons, if it's not too late at this point: Alexander, in all 3 ages he's been portrayed at, was played by white actors. I don't recall who the first one was but for the rest of TNG he was played by Brian Bonsall, the little blonde kid on "Family Ties" that Michael J. Fox's character (another Alex, don'tcha know?) tried to mold into his own image but failed. Also, John Tesh (yes, THAT John Tesh!) played a Klingon in the episode (whose name escapes me) where Worf walks thru that double line of Klingons in the holosuite that touch him with the painsticks. Tesh is either the last one on the left, or next to the last, who shocks Worf.

In ST:VI, I think was the Klingon judge or prosecutor who was played by a white actor, John Schuck. Anyone remember "Holmes and Yo Yo" from the 1970's? He played a human looking robot in it. As was mentioned, Chang was white. So was Maltz, in STIII, played by Dan Fielding himself, John Larroquette. There've probably been roughly an equal, or nearly so, split in the numbers of Klingons played by black actors as white. Or so it seems to me.

BTW, just so no one chews me out for it, my nickname is only an homage to Gene, of course. I use it in a couple chatrooms, too, and no offense to anyone is intended by it.

By MikeC on Saturday, January 16, 1999 - 06:05 pm:

GUEST STAR PATROL (The Third Frontier)

Laurence Luckinbill (Sybok) appears in movies, and is the husband of Lucy Arnaz.

David Warner (St. John Talbot) will be Gorkon and Gul Madred in other Star Trek things, but also played the villain in "Tron", Jack the Ripper in "Time After Time", and does some cartoon voices, including Ras Al Ghul on "Batman", and Dr. Landon on "Spider-Man".

By Rodnberry on Sunday, January 17, 1999 - 07:10 am:

Has anyone noticed another staple of Star Trek (besides continuity problems, contradictions, stardate errors, bloopers, etc.) and that is that several actors have played multiple roles in the ST universe? Most have only played one, of course, but I tend to notice the same names playing different characters more and more it seems. The most current one I think is Jeffrey Combs playing Weyoun, his clones, and the Ferengi Brunt, and that's just in one series! Must save a ton of money, I guess.

By Rodnberry on Sunday, January 17, 1999 - 07:56 am:

More white Klingons! No, I don't think more whites should play Klingons. I just remembered more white actors who played them, like General Martok (John G Hertzler). You can also see him without the makeup in the DS9 ep "Far Beyond the Stars" as a sci-fi author, if memory serves, at the magazine Sisko worked at in his dream. The three original Klingons of course were white, too. Kor, Kang and Koloth. Or does anyone care anymore at this point? I'll stop with the white Klingon thingie now. I really don't care who plays what, as long as they do a good job of it.

By MikeC on Sunday, January 17, 1999 - 08:50 am:

What I like about Combs is that I have never noticed that he was both Brunt and Weyoun until I checked the cast lists. He is terrific in both roles, until Brunt was getting a bit too obvious. For a while, he was in every episode involving Quark. A running joke, I guess.

By Rodnberry on Monday, January 18, 1999 - 02:12 am:

I've liked Jeffrey Combs' work since I first saw him as Dr. Herbert West in the Reanimator films and also From Beyond. Andrew Robinson is another favorite, too. I wasn't sure about Garak at first but I got to like him after awhile. Gul Dukat, too. I've wondered what Marc Alaimo looks like under the makeup and found a site of him with pix of his face. It mentioned the last Naked Gun film and that he was a trucker in it and just by chance that night or the next one NBC played it so I watched it just to his part. I can't stand to watch those films anymore you-know-who is in them, and I don't mean Leslie Nielson, Priscilla Presley or George Kennedy, either.

By Anonymous on Monday, January 18, 1999 - 08:21 pm:

Dont forget about OJ Simpson, he's in the naked gun moves too.

Soeaking of ST actors in former roles, Robert Picardo played a Racist Cop In an episode of 'hiway to heaven'

By Rodnberry on Tuesday, January 19, 1999 - 06:16 am:

That's who I was talking about but I didn't care to mention his name since he's no longer worth acknowledging, IMHO. He's less than human, and even moreso cuz he still denies what he did, knowing full well that he did it. But I'm not here to argue about him.

Another film I saw Picardo in, without realizing it till I saw it and his name in the opening credits, is the first "Howling" film. He played the psycho werewolf, Eddie, that bit Dee Stone in the private booth at the pornshop. It's hard to see him clearly cuz he was filmed mostly in shadows, but you can see and hear enough to recognize him.

By Rodnberry on Tuesday, January 19, 1999 - 06:21 am:

And looking in the ST Encyclopedia for one entry I saw another that I didn't think fully about before and that is that the actor Robert Picardo shares the same name as Jean-Juc's brother with only one letter difference in the last name. Coincidence? Hmmm....

By MikeC on Tuesday, January 19, 1999 - 03:10 pm:

One of my favorite Picardo roles was as the Coach in the show "The Wonder Years".

By Ian Bland on Friday, January 22, 1999 - 10:34 pm:

And he played the medallion-man cowboy dude in that movie where Dennis Quad was injected into Martin Short's bloodstream- was it 'Inner Space'?

I know, I know, I'm going out to look for a life any day now.

By Merat on Saturday, January 23, 1999 - 01:57 pm:

yes it was. I heard that there was a sequal made, but never released.

By Mei on Wednesday, January 27, 1999 - 01:06 am:

I just got to thinking about this one, so I just checked in. One quick note, from way back: if I recall correctly, Sybok's mother was a priestess, not a princess. I think that makes a lot more sense.

The reason I signed on was to talk about the one part of this movie I REALLY liked: meeting God. I want to say, first of all, that I'm a born-again Christian (those who need to should understand this claim). I just LOVED the part where they met God! Here's McCoy, the good Southern Baptist: Yes, God, whatever you say, it makes no sense, but whatever you say, 'cause you're God. And there's Kirk, not religious, questioning this God.
I like this scene because it reminds me so much of people I've known. They accept whatever they're told, because the one telling them heard it from *God*. It might not be totally Scriptural, but 'we mustn't question.' I like questioning; my faith gets stronger thru questioning. Granted, there are some questions that we can't get answers to, and we have to take them on faith. But if we question them first, at least we're more sure we're going in the right direction.
I never thought I'd have more in common with Captain 'Ladies'Man' Kirk than McCoy, but this time I do.

I'm sorry to run on so long. This was something that struck me today, and, as I say, I've always loved this scene.

By Mf on Wednesday, January 27, 1999 - 10:09 am:

Nice observation, Mei. The idea of meeting God (and he turning out to be either insane or a child) is one Rodenberry toyed with and explored for years; it's one more thing that made this movie very much in keeping with classic Trek traditions.

By Charles Cabe (Ccabe) on Wednesday, January 27, 1999 - 02:10 pm:

Mei, you left out Spock's reaction to "God": Facination.

Let the Holy Wars begin anew :)

By Anonymous on Wednesday, January 27, 1999 - 04:22 pm:

I don't think they even encountered God in this movie. Remember Spock saying something like: "Sybok, this is not the god of sha ka ree nor any other god..." (not a direct quote). They probably encountered some self-righteous alien that had super powers and was stuck at the center of the Galaxy. And I don't think God would be even close to that mean, he would have greeted each one of our heroes with hugs or something like that.

By Spockania on Wednesday, January 27, 1999 - 04:56 pm:

Of course he wasn't GOD. But they thought he was when they first met him. I point out that we are given the indication that the "real" god exists by the fact that this being is imprisoned and needs a starship to escape.

By Charles Cabe (Ccabe) on Wednesday, January 27, 1999 - 05:38 pm:

I just re-watched Star Trek V and I found a few more nits.

How does Sybok's sidekick know Sybok was a Vulcan? Couldn't he have been a Romulan, they look a lot alike. It's like waling up to a random person on the street and saying "You must be from Rhode Island!"

Yosemite National Park? Shouldn't it be Yosemite Federation Park?

They show the profile of General Korrd. Why don't they show John Talbert's as well? (They might not yet have a file on Caitlin Dar.)

Why is Capt. Scott taking orders from Cmdr. Chekov? Scott normally takes command when Kirk, Spock, and McCoy leave the ship.

It takes 23 seconds to fly the shuttle in manually. It should take less than 15.5 seconds. Also, why dosen't any one come to check on the shuttle?

For the record, Spock says that he is incapable of lying. However, he has lied in the past. (STIV-claimed to like Italian, even though he didn't. STVI-Multiple times) However, he could be lying in this movie, as well.

Now for the religion one. Mei: Where does it say McCoy is a Southern Baptist? I am troubled that you would assume that all Southerners are Baptist. I live in the Great State of Kentucky and from my house, I can see the homes of 2 "Southern Catholics" families and a family of "Southern Presbyterians".

Also, McCoy acts generally like a Christan. But, their is nothing to prove that. In this movie, he says, "I'll call Valhalla and have them reserve a room." Just after Kirk's "I'll die alone speech". Valhalla is the home of the Honored Dead from Norse Mytholigy (Thor, Odin, Frigga, etc.) So, its possible McCoy belives in Thor, Odin, and othe Norse dieties.

Whew, that was a long post!

By Nyla on Wednesday, January 27, 1999 - 07:17 pm:

Mei, have you visited The Bath Scene, Part 2? It's on the Insurrection board and
has evolved into an interesting religious/aetheism debate

By Ian Bland on Wednesday, January 27, 1999 - 09:07 pm:

As I posted somewhere else (can't remember where), in 'Who Mourns For Adonais?' Kirk says, "we find the one [God] quite sufficient", so I'm not so sure that he's not religious.

By Mei on Thursday, January 28, 1999 - 01:20 am:

I'm not saying McCoy is Baptist, but this is one of those generalizations, since the Baptists seem very strong in the South. Besides which, as I said, his speech reminds me VERY strongly of the Baptist church/school I attended. I do not mean to offend any Baptists (or anyone else), it's just a handy label.
As to McCoy's comment about Valhalla, that really proves nothing. It's the kind of off-hand comment many people might make, me among them. That doesn't mean I believe in Valhalla. It just means it would strike me as a nice ironic statement.
From the other hand, I also remember meeting people who would claim to be Baptist before being Christian. As I said, it's an attitude kind of thing. (I'm just a poor Southern boy, workin' and prayin' and livin' my life as best I can...) Please don't read more into my remark than I meant.
Just for the record, I don't believe this was God in any way, shape or form. I think it was some poor deluded fool stranded on this planet eons ago by some very powerful race - the Preservers, perhaps, or the Organians. It's sort of like Q - I'm so powerful I must be God. I DON'T THINK SO!
But this is still my favourite scene.

By Mf on Thursday, January 28, 1999 - 10:37 am:

Anti-nits:

>>Yosemite National Park? Shouldn't it be Yosemite Federation Park?

Did they ever say "Yosemite National Park?" I don't recall it. Besides, it could just be the historic name.

>Why is Capt. Scott taking orders from Cmdr. Chekov? Scott normally takes command when Kirk, Spock, and McCoy leave the ship.

Chekov has been left in command of the ship. Rank is irrelevent.


>Also, why dosen't any one come to check on the shuttle?

Scotty did.


>For the record, Spock says that he is incapable of lying. However, he has lied in the past. (STIV-claimed to like Italian, even though he didn't. STVI-Multiple times) However, he could be lying in this movie, as well.

he's always propogated the myth that Vulcans don't lie. See The Enterprise Incident. I think the general view is that Vulcans don't LIKE to lie, but are certainly capable of it. They just don't deny the myth is all.

As for religion, y'all are on your own.

By D Mann on Thursday, January 28, 1999 - 01:01 pm:

>>>we are given the indication that the "real" god exists by the fact that this
being is imprisoned and needs a starship to escape. >>>

Not at all. We are only given the indication that this being isn't God. That doesn't suggest that the real God is out there somewhere, any more than finding a striped elephant and discovering the stripes were painted on means there must be a real striped elephant out there somewhere.

By Charles Cabe (Ccabe) on Thursday, January 28, 1999 - 04:17 pm:

To Mei: I metioned Valhalla because IMHO casts some doubt on McCoy Baptistness. Two other explanations: 1. It could be a refrence to a golf course in Louisville. 2. Perhaps it was a refrence to the Lost Episode "Who Mourns for Thor" (the episode where they find Thor on an uncharted world) of the lost 4th season. :) I have to admit that he acts baptist though.

To Mf:Yosemite National Park is on the screen just prior to "Stardate 8485.4"

About Scott taking orders from Chekov, I was commenting on the irregularity of Chekov taking the conn, not Scotty.

By Nat Hefferman on Thursday, February 04, 1999 - 02:09 pm:

Is it just me, or does anyone else feel this way too; when Kirk, Spock,and McCoy sit around the campfire eating baked beans, I immediately think "Blazing Saddles".

By Rodnberry on Friday, February 05, 1999 - 06:48 am:

Whenever I watch this movie I always try to find the support cable attached to Shatner's belt but I can't see it, in the scene where after catching him, Spock brings Kirk, dare I say it, down to Earth. Well, that was on the old 13" TV (which I've since relegated to sitting next to my puter with the old VCR attached to it in the bedroom). Maybe I'll have better luck on my 27" one. I'll look out for it when it's on again, though it's a hard one to sit through more than once.

By Cableface on Saturday, February 06, 1999 - 04:29 pm:

The cable is poking out of his side, pointing toward the right of the screen.It's pretty thin so it might be hard to see.
Also, on the wall, above the button that Kirk uses to extend the chair in the brig, there's a notice which reads "Do not use while in spacedock"
Now, you can take this two ways.Either, it's saying that the chair should not be used in spacedock, which doesn't seem to make much sense.
Or, there is another piece of machinery in the brig which doesn't make too much sense either as the brig is supposed to be almost totally bare.

By Anonymous on Sunday, February 07, 1999 - 10:29 am:

Cableface, that "chair" is a toilet seat.

By Cableface on Sunday, February 07, 1999 - 02:47 pm:

so why couldn't they use it in spacedock?

By ScottN on Monday, February 08, 1999 - 01:19 am:

It's a 2001 joke.

By Rodnberry on Monday, February 08, 1999 - 05:32 am:

Yeah, Cable, that's where I always look, but like I said it's probably just harder to see on a smaller screen. Maybe now that I've got one twice the size I might get twice as lucky.

By Nat Hefferman on Monday, February 08, 1999 - 02:42 pm:

The toilet seat is not a 2001 joke, but a reference to train travel. Toilets on trains empty out directly onto the tracks, so they are posted with a sign that reads "Do not use while train is in the station."

By ScottN on Monday, February 08, 1999 - 05:12 pm:

I believe that the instructions for the Zero G toilet in 2001 (they're hard to see) include "Do not use when docked". That comment may be a train joke...

By Nat Hefferman on Wednesday, March 10, 1999 - 02:54 pm:

RE: Black vs. White actors as aliens: the only black actors I can recall who played Klingons are Michael (Worf) Dorn, Tony (Kurn) Todd, and former LA Laker James Worthy, who had a cameo in the TNG episode "Gambit" (I'm disregarding any extras who were not listed in the credits). I recall reading somewhere that the reason Dorn was hire to play Worf was that since Klingons are dark skinned, it would make the makeup artists' job easier if he was played by a black actor.

By mf on Monday, March 15, 1999 - 02:56 pm:

Isn't it a little sad that a series that's supposed to make us look PAST color boundries is inspiring such questions as what black actors played Klingons (a more or less homogenous race)?

By Ogg/McGay on Tuesday, April 06, 1999 - 04:17 pm:

Chist, bloody Macbeth! Christ, bloody Macbeth! Christ, bloody Macbeth! I`m not repetitive. I`m not repetitive. I`m not repetitive. SHHHH!
So, who taught Shatner, Nimoy and Kelly to sign? They could at least sign "Row, Row, Row Your Boat" at the same time as each other.
SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

By Callie Sullivan on Tuesday, April 06, 1999 - 05:14 pm:

Sign? Sign??? Why - was this the version made specially for the hard of hearing?! ;}

By Ogg/McGay on Wednesday, April 07, 1999 - 12:56 pm:

Oops. Oops. Oops. I`m not repetitive. I`m not repetitive. I`m not repetitive.
I MEANT SING, GOD •••• IT!
SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

By BrianB on Thursday, April 08, 1999 - 05:36 am:

Read Shatner's Movie Memories about his film. He took an honest look at why it did so poor and offered insights which makes me give him the benefit of the doubt. For what it's worth. I loved how he described his God-FX. With the purse-strings tightly knotted, the FX house made God as a 100-watt floodlight with a face.
Has anyone seen the bootlegged, fan-created parody video MST3K on ST5:TFF? It's dynamite! As the many faces of God zip forth, the Joel character says "It Michael Dorn! Johnathan Frakes! LeVar Burton! Whoopie Goldberg! And Patrick Stewart! It's the entire cast of Next Generation!!"