After the verdict is delivered, many of the council members seem surprised. Why? Aren't they the ones that made the decision?

Many of the council members are wearing Starfleet uniforms(with some other decorations on them). Does this mean that members of Starfleet can be on the Council? Or are members of the Council in Starfleet?(I don't suspect that's the case since not all of them were wearing them.)

Did this probe just cruise away from Earth (and to Earth) on impulse? We never see it at warp.

The Enterprise-A seems to be in OK shape in this movie. How did it get in such bad shape in the next one? Was it being upgraded or something?

By LUIGI NOVI on Saturday, June 09, 2001 - 09:39 pm:

Maybe the punk was trying to give Kirk the Vulcan hand salute, but three of his fingers are paralyzed
This movie was cowritten by Harve Bennett, who wrote the 24th century Acts 1 and 4, and by Nick Meyer, who wrote the 20th century San Francisco scenes of Acts 2 and 3. This makes the second time Meyer has written for a time-travel movie set in San Francisco. The first was Time After Time, which starred future Trek villains Malcom McDowall and David Warner as H.G. Wells and Jack the Ripper, who journeyed to the 20th century using Wells� time machine. Moreover, the scene where Meyer trashes rock music by having Spock deal with the colorful busrider is derived from a scene he wrote for Time After Time, but had to cut.
The Earth Travel and Tourism Bureau stuck it there to make their postcards more attractrive
In the opening shot of the movie, we see the Probe approaching the camera, with a nebula in the background, one that is obviously nowhere near Earth. This means that the Probe is still far from Earth. Problem is, the Probe does not seem to be travelling at warp.
I guess people misplace the VCR remote even in the 23rd century!
When the Klingon ambassador asks someone to hold the playback, he needs to ask twice, the second time more forcefully. Trouble is, the image keeps on going after he begins speaking again. The images of the Genesis planet do correspond to the argument he�s making, as if it "belongs," but he never gave any request to resume play. I guess the Council chamber�s VCR read the script.
Ah, but do you know the chemical composition for fullofcrapium?
In the beginning of the movie, the test computer asks Spock for the chemical composition for yominium sulfide crystals. The correct
----------------------------3
answer he gives is K4Ym3(SO7 Es2). It�s a bit blurry in the movie, but I verified it in The Star Trek Encyclopedia. A sulfide is a compound of sulfur with another element, especially a metal. The composition given on the screen is inconsistent with a sulfide. (The substance was named for Leonard Nimoy. Spell it backwards.)
Is it a computer, or is there just some little guy inside that box asking the questions?
Also, this computer seems to be very fast and efficient. But one of the questions it asks Spock is to name the principal historical events on the planet Earth in the year 1987. Isn�t this, to some degree, subjective? There can�t exactly be a "correct" or "incorrect" answer. Five different historians could each make a brief list, and they would all have commonalties, but differences as well. And the computer doesn�t limit the answer to a specific number. How many events does it consider to be "principle" events? The top 100? Top 20? Top 5? In what areas? Politics? Culture? Science? All of the above? And the fact that the year is just one year off from where the crew journey to in this movie notwithstanding, I also find it a bit hokey on the part of the creators to be telegraphing the plot of the movie, even if people know from pre-movie publicity what it�s about.
I wonder if Bendii Syndrome only affects Vulcans?
The computer asks Spock how he feels, and Spock says he doesn�t understand the question. Amanda comes by, and says, "What is it Spock?", and Spock repeats his problem. Amanda explains the necessity of the question, even though Spock didn�t tell her what the question was, and she didn�t look at the screen herself. This means she must have heard the computer ask the question. So if she heard it, didn�t she also hear Spock state his problem with it the first time? Why did she have to ask him what was wrong, necessitating his repeating it?
One is AC and the other is DC?
Why does the Probe drain the Saratoga�s primary power, but not its reserve power?
That�s seven years of bad luck. Or 21 if you�re Vulcan.
When Earth�s weather goes haywire, some personnel enter the Starfleet control room with a device to fortify the windows. Curiously, there are four bay windows, but they only have one device, and can only use it on one window. So what�s so special about that one window? Is that the "sacred" window? Understandably, one of the other windows shatters! Who ordered those men to protect that window? The father from the movie Better Off Dead (played by David Ogden Stiers, Timicin from Half a Life(TNG))?
Making a glass of themselves
Speaking of which, why did it break? Shouldn�t something like the windows on Starfleet Command Headquarters be unbreakable?
So he knows the chemical composition for a fake substance, but not where his uniform is?
Spock apologizes to Kirk for misplacing his uniform. What does he mean, "misplace?" He died in it, was buried in a funeral garment, and all of his property was either retrieved when the Enterprise returned to spacedock or blown up with the ship in ST III.
Psychiatrist: "Okay, Spock, let�s try this again. What does this inkblot look like to you?"
Spock: "An semi-omnipotent being who worshipped by primitive humans as a god."
Psychiatrist: "All right. How about this one?"
Spock: "A spatial anomaly, 3.4 light years wide, emitting a thousand of rads of lethal radiation."
Psychiatrist: "Uh-uh. And how about this one?"
Spock: "That, Doctor is an alien whale probe, shaped like a phallic symbol."
Psychiatrist: "Dammit, Spock, this is a photograph of ME!"
Spock: "You see what you see, I see what I see, Doctor."
One of Phil�s regarded how Spock mentioned that the Federation President said that the Probe�s transmissions were directed to the oceans, which Phil pointed out is not what the President actually said. But Spock�s assertions about the Probe are even odder than that. When Spock listens to the Probe�s transmissions in the beginning of the movie, he says of it, "An unknown form of energy of great power and intelligence, evidentally unaware that its transmissions are destructive. I find it illogical that its intention should be hostile. Okay, let�s go in order. First, Spock isn�t saying that the transmission is an unknown form of energy, which is somewhat plausible, but that the either the Probe itself or the lifeforms that command it are made of energy, because he calls it " a form of energy of great power and intelligence." Where does he get the idea that the lifeforms sending the Probe, or that the Probe itself, are energy-based lifeforms? Second, if he doesn�t known what form of energy the transmission is using, and they can�t translate the language, then what is his basis for assessing the intelligence of it? And for that matter, what is his basis that the Probe is unaware that its transmissions are destructive, or that its intentions are not hostile? Where is he getting all this from? None of it comes from any evidence I can see.
Kirk: Definitely not boy scout material
Kirk asks Scotty about his ability to enclose the cargo bay to hold water before they went back in time. They knew where they were headed, and they had all the time in the world before going back to 1986, so why didn�t they procure all the necessary materials (period clothing, currency, the aluminum for the cargo bay) before they went to get the whales?
Ya think maybe they shouldn�t have put the guy just back from the dead at the wheel?
Why does Spock choose the late 20th century as their destination? First, if the whales are on the verge of extinction at that point in time, why not go back to a much earlier time, say, the turn of the century or so, when they were more populous? Wouldn�t they be much easier to find? Second, if they went back to such an earlier time, there�d be no orbiting satellites to detect the ship. The fact that there were no nuclear vessels from which to steal high-energy electrons to repisodeair the ship�s crystals is irrelevant, since the crew didn�t know at the time that they would need them. Now, obviously, the creators had already done time travel stories set in the 30s and the 60s, and wanted to visit 1986 for this movie, so all the had to do was have Spock aim for the turn of the century or an earlier time, but end up in 1986 instead, due to the touch-and-go inexactness of time travel.
I hear the bags those guys were hauling were filled with the scripts for "Spock�s Brain," "Badda-Bing, Badda-Bang," "The 37s," "Threshold," "Spirit Folk" and "Fury."
Didn�t the crew notice on their sensors that there was a garbage truck with two garbage men in the park, right next to where they landed?
Listen, buddy, I don�t care what you�re captain of. That big hunk of invisible metal you got here in the middle of Golden Gate Park ain�t supposed ta be here. I�m giving you a $120,000,000.00 ticket for illegally parking a starship from 300 years in the future on public grounds. Next time, keep it orbit like decent folk!
Kirk�s line to everyone about remembering where they parked is funny, but it�s a comment from a distinctly 20th century perspective (i.e. the writers). The only way this makes sense is if parking is a problem for starships in the 23rd century, and somehow I have trouble believing that.
Park visitor: Whoa, dude, I KNEW that whole Roswell thing was real!
So what exactly does Kirk think will happen if someone waltzes into the park while they�re away (or hell, even if they�re there!), and bumps into the large invisible object in the middle of the park?
Well, Chekov and Uhura are dressed funny, and California cops aren�t used to seeing people dressed funny
Why doesn�t the beat cop give directions to Uhura and Chekov?
So THAT�s what that little earpiece was that Uhura used to wear! It was a hearing aid!
Also, when the two ask the woman where the Alameda Naval Base is, she says she�s not sure, but she thinks it�s across the bay in Alameda. Chekov grumbles that that�s what he said, and Uhura adds, "But where is Alameda?" But the woman told them it was across the bay!
Hey! I don�t care WHAT it�s doing in San Francisco! Don�t ask, Don�t tell!
While there is an aircraft carrier Enterprise, it was out at sea during the filming of this movie, so the USS Ranger stood in for it. In addition, the home port of the Enterprise is Norfolk, Virginia, not Alameda.
He�s probably afraid she want to sleep over. Kirk hates it when chicks do that!
After Kirk tells Gillian the truth over dinner over who he is and where/when he�s from, she asks him if she can look around his spaceship, and he balks. Mind telling me why? If he decided to let her in on everything, why not show her the ship?
It�s the transporter. Chicks dig the transporter
And later, after Gillian learns the whales were released clandestinely, she hurries to the park, and Kirk beams her in! Can�t Kirk make up his mind?
Imagine that. Kirk acting ignorant about "dating"
When Kirk explains to Gillian "when" he�s from, he starts off by saying, "I am from what your calendar would be the late 23rd century," implying that the Gregorian calendar goes out of use by the 23rd century. This conflicts with the episodes The Neutral Zone(TNG), and Eye of the Needle(VOY), in which that dating system is still used.
What�s the big deal? American Beauty showed that there are different types of grass
When the Bird of Prey touches down in Golden Gate Park, the special effects mechanism that lowers a chunk of grass to simulate the invisible ship�s weight works well. But in the shot of Scotty�s perspective of looking down at Gillian as she�s yelling out for Kirk, the pressed down grass doesn�t look like grass at all. It looks like carpeting. Then, in subsequent shot of Gillian being beamed in shows the grass properly pressed down. Why the two different effects?
Keystone Cops Part II
Why isn�t Chekov sent to a military hospital? Why weren�t MPs or CIA officers outside the operating room, rather than cops? This is a Russian intruder, possibly an enemy agent, on board an American nuclear battleship during the Cold War!
And you thought Clark Kent had a lame disguise
The trio even have surgical masks hanging around their necks when they leave the OR, but they don�t even bother using them to disguise themselves!
The only cops who make the ones in the Police Academy movies look competent by comparison
And st upid cops at that! When our heroes exit the OR, the cops half-heartedly question whether the blond screaming patient was a female, but don�t notice her standing right there in front of them, even though they�re not wearing the masks!
Admit it, Kirk: You just did that just to get a kick out of watching those whalers go crazy!
We know that a cloaked ship cannot use weapons or shields, but does that apply to transporters too? It�s possible, but to my knowledge, it�s never been specifically established. So why in the world does the crew decloak when it reaches the whaling vessel? Aren�t they trying not to upset history?
Yeah, I saw the shadow. Like, does that mean we�ll have six more years of movies with big plot holes?
When the Bird of Prey decloaks over the whaling ship, it understandably casts a huge shadow over it. In close-ups of the captain and first mate frantically trying to high-tail it out there, it seems consistently darkened as well. But in a close-up shot of the ship itself facing the camera, it seems totally sunny, with no shadow.
Ah�m sorry, Captain, but I asked the poor wee whales how much they weighed, and they were totally offended!
When Kirk asks Spock if he�s accounted for the whales� and the water�s mass, he says Scotty can�t give him exact figures. Why is this? The reason for this is never given. Doesn�t Scotty already know the area of the water, as he demonstrated when asking Dr. Nichols at the polymer factory about the aluminum, and can�t he extrapolate its volume from that? Besides, doesn�t the ship have internal sensors? Don�t the Klingons keep tricorders on board? And even if they didn�t, shouldn�t Kirk and crew stocked up on everything necessary for their journey from Vulcan to Earth?
There it is! No, wait�there! No, wait�.there it is�Oh, screw it, I can�t see SQUAT in this pea soup!
After we see window in the Starfleet control room shatter for the second time toward the end of the movie, Sarek and Admiral Cartwright see the Bird of Prey headed for the Golden Gate Bridge. The whole sky is filled with thick clouds, right down to the surface of the planet! How can they see it?
Maybe there�s an auxiliary auxiliary power? Or maybe Kirk meant that everyone should act conceited and snobby?
As the Bird of Prey plunges toward San Francisco Bay, Kirk barks orders to keep the nose up if they can. I thought the probe neutralized all power systems. Chekov said main and auxiliary power were out. Sulu said there was no manual control as well. Aren�t the navigational systems that can "keep the nose up" powered by the systems that are out? Are the "keep the nose up" systems powered by hamster wheels? On the other hand, the ship did swerve to avoid the bridge, so they did make a controlled descent, so how did they do that ?
Thank God it wasn�t Judge Ito
Why is the President of the Federation acting as the judge in a court martial? Aren�t judges supposed to adjudicate such matters? Doesn�t the Federation President have other important duties to attend to? Isn�t there any separation of judicial powers and executive powers in the Federation Government?
Hot dogs! Peanuts! Pretzels! Get yer cold Federation Court Martial soda!
And aren�t court martials usually restricted to the principle litigants involved? Why is there such a large audience of Federation officials observing this?
The judge ultimately decided that "wearing a bad toupee" was not a serious enough charge to include at a court martial
At the end of the movie, the charges against Kirk and his crew are: 1. Conspiracy, 2. Assault of Federation officers, 3. Theft of the Enterprise, 4. Sabotage of the Excelsior, 5. Destruction of the Enterprise, and 6. Disobeying orders. That�s six charges. If the assault on the Federation officers constitutes three counts in total because there were 3 officers assaulted in ST III, then that�s eight charges in all. But the President told the Klingon ambassador in the beginning of the movie that Kirk has been charged with 9 violations of Starfleet regulations. What happened to the other charge?
Even the toupee charge?
Y�know, I was going to challenge the fact that Kirk pleads guilty to all charges, which I found to be unfair to himself and the others, especially the charge of blowing up the Enterprise, which was necessary to avoid capture by the Klingons, and inevitable, since it was going to be scrapped anyway, but I ultimately decided not to. After having to listen to all the pseudo-it wasn�t my fault defenses espoused by criminals of late, plus the specious lawsuits by people (like the woman who sued McDonald�s because she spilled hot coffee on herself), Kirk�s acceptance of responsibility is almost a welcome refreshment.
I was wondering what Kirk was doing leaving the President�s house early in the morning!
After the Federation President announces that all charges are being dropped, look at all the Federation Council Members: they all seem surprised! Why is this? Didn�t they vote on the issue themselves? I know they�ve never specifically established how such a legal procedure works in the Council, but I just assumed that it was a democratic one. Don�t tell me the President makes a unilateral decision all by himself?! Given that the members of the Enterprise crew charged with crimes are all human, wouldn�t there be a very serious appearance of bias, since the President is human himself?
Must be New Age Vulcans
After the punishment is pronounced (Kirk�s demotion), look at the first two Council members who shake hands with Spock and Kirk: they�re both Vulcan, and they�re happily emoting!
Captain, I am Solek. As a Vulcan, I am committed to logic, reason, peace, and intellectual pursuits, and, like other Vulcans, I abhor physical contact, preferring to greet others with the traditional Vulcan salute. But I just HAD to shake the hand of the guy who beat all those charges! Put �er there, dude!
And shouldn�t they be using the Vulcan greeting sign instead of shaking hands, at least with Spock?
More time travel
How much time elapsed between when the crew returned home with the whales and their trial? Gillian, plucked out of her native time frame, just pops onto a science vessel? No debriefing, no counseling or intensive readjustment therapy? And if she did undergo such procedures, then just how long did Kirk and his crew have to wait for their trial? A month? A year?
I know Spock said in ST II that he had no ego to bruise, but come on......
The crew board the Enterprise-A and zoom off at the movie�s conclusion. I guess they�re just going for a joy ride. They can�t all be part of the same crew! Chekov is a commander, and Spock and Kirk are both captains!

By Snickerdoodle on Saturday, June 09, 2001 - 10:48 pm:

Why doesn�t the beat cop give directions to Uhura and Chekov?

Okay, mid-Eighties, Cold War's still on, you come across a loony with a Russian accent asking for directions to the nearest naval base containing "nuclear wessels". What do you do?

By Lolar Windrunner on Sunday, June 10, 2001 - 12:00 am:

Well if he's an LA cop then the phrse "beat" cop takes on a whole new meaning.

By LUIGI NOVI on Sunday, June 10, 2001 - 02:11 am:

He's not. They're in San Francisco, not LA.

Of course, the word "beat" in SF might also have a certain double entendre ring to it.

By ScottN on Sunday, June 10, 2001 - 04:58 pm:

Incidentally, according to Nimoy (and he should know -- he directed!) the cop is actually an SFPD officer who was there for crowd control.

By Lolar Windrunner on Sunday, June 10, 2001 - 07:05 pm:

Either way the joke still works. :-) Yeah I knew that about the cop and the lady who comes up was a real passerby fresh off the street. Kinda make you wonder where she had been for the previous few years.

By LUIGI NOVI on Monday, June 11, 2001 - 04:24 am:

Waitaminute--hold up--are you saying those guys weren't actors, but just people on the street approached to make their odd expressions and answers seem real? I find that hard to believe. For one thing, if you'r gonna have a speaking part in a movie, you have to be a member of SAG or have some kind of waver. For another, how could the cop and the lady not have noticed the entire camera crew and closed off section of the street for filming?

Or did I just misunderdstand what you said? If so, sorry.

By Name on Monday, June 11, 2001 - 06:51 am:

Luigi, I believe ScottN was indicating that the cop was there because they were filming (he was there to control the crowd that inevitably appears when people start filming in a public location).

As for the woman who said "across the bay.. in Alameda" I also heard that she was just a random person passing by, and that they had to catch up with her and pay her later (as per the SAG rules). Actually, you don't _need_ to be a SAG member to get a speaking role in a movie, but once you get a speaking role you become a SAG member. Go here to see about being "taft-ed"

By sarek on Monday, June 11, 2001 - 08:26 am:

Does anyone notice, that Kirk & Co refitted the whole Bird Of Prey bridge between ST III and ST IV? Why didn´t they also change the labeling on the computer consoles?

By ScottN on Monday, June 11, 2001 - 11:43 am:

As for the woman who said "across the bay.. in Alameda" I also heard that she was just a random person passing by, and that they had to catch up with her and pay her later (as per the SAG rules).

Nimoy said as much in his autobio.

By ScottN on Monday, June 11, 2001 - 11:44 am:

They specifically told Nichelle Nichols and Walter Koenig to accost passerbys asking where the naval base in Alameda was. Koenig was specifically told to say "Nuclear Wessels".

What I find hard to believe is that they actually found someone who (apparently) didn't realize who they were! (I assume the "Hey, you're from Star Trek!" responses ended up on the cutting room floor).

By Matthew Patterson (Mpatterson) on Monday, June 11, 2001 - 07:30 pm:

Well, not everyone watches Star Trek, hard as it is to believe. What I wonder is, how long did it take them to get an acceptable response? I mean, even though not *everyone* watches Star Trek, surely some people were observant enough to notice that they were being filmed, and therefore act goofy? (People do strange things on camera.)

By ScottN on Monday, June 11, 2001 - 10:01 pm:

I don't think they were looking for an "acceptable response" other than people looking at these loonies asking "where are the nuclear wessels".

However, given the street person population of SF, I suspect that the residents of that city have a high tolerance for oddballs on the street.

By Lolar Windrunner on Monday, June 11, 2001 - 10:29 pm:

True. I read in one of the books (I think it was Nimoy's) about how they walked around on the streets of SF and people either just gave them a few wierd looks or ignored them. Kinda makes you wonder.

By Stephanie Alles on Friday, July 27, 2001 - 04:53 pm:

In the Starfleet headquarter, when they look at wheather pictures, the time jumps from 18:06 to 16:06. Later there were more wheather pictures all with another time. At least 09:?? can't be true, assuming the probe started to get weird not before 14:00

By John A. Lang on Saturday, July 28, 2001 - 09:39 pm:

The spherical object that emerges from the Probe looks like a volleyball.

OK...Kirk & Co. are on Vulcan for 3 months...
There is NO explanation of why no one from Starfleet didn't send a Starship there and get them themselves...instead Starfleet "allows" Kirk & Co. to return of their own free will. Is that a smart thing to do? Or was it Capt. Harriman's Syndrome again? (Gawking & dawdling on Starfleet's part) Or was it because the Enterprise was "the only ship in the quadrant", but now it's destroyed, so now, there's no Starship to send to Vulcan?
I think the REAL answer is, if Starfleet sent a ship to pick up Kirk & Co.,it'd be a very short movie.

When Kirk sends his transmission to Earth, one of his images on the smaller screens is FLIPPED.
(It just wouldn't be "Star Trek" without a flipped image, now would it?)

WHO beamed up Spock when Gillian & Kirk dropped him off at the park? All the landing party was doing their tasks!

Why does Spock go to a different part of the B.O.P. when he wants to identify the signal? Are the computers on the Klingon bridge broken?

After the B.O.P. decloaks over the whaling ship, how come N.O.R.A.D. didn't pick them up on radar and sound off some kind of alarm?
(It's nice to know N.O.R.A.D. is on top of our national security, ain't it?)

By Brian Fitzgerald on Saturday, July 28, 2001 - 10:09 pm:

After the B.O.P. decloaks over the whaling ship, how come N.O.R.A.D. didn't pick them up on radar and sound off some kind of alarm?
(It's nice to know N.O.R.A.D. is on top of our national security, ain't it?)

Who says they didn't. From the time they decloak until they leave the atmosphere is about 5 minutes, even if they got a jet off the ground in that 5 minutes their is still traval time to get to where the BOP was, by the time the jet got their the BOP would be long gone.

By TWS Garrison on Saturday, July 28, 2001 - 11:51 pm:

At the end of the movie, the charges against Kirk and his crew are: 1. Conspiracy, 2. Assault of Federation officers, 3. Theft of the Enterprise, 4. Sabotage of the Excelsior, 5. Destruction of the Enterprise, and 6. Disobeying orders. That?s six charges. If the assault on the Federation officers constitutes three counts in total because there were 3 officers assaulted in ST III, then that?s eight charges in all. But the President told the Klingon ambassador in the beginning of the movie that Kirk has been charged with 9 violations of Starfleet regulations. What happened to the other charge?

You could argue that they disobeyed orders more than once---for example, leaving SpaceDock without clearance and visiting the Genesis Planet.

By Richard Davies on Sunday, July 29, 2001 - 05:40 am:

The B.O.P. looks like it's too low for radar to pick it up.

By N.O.R.A.D. on Sunday, July 29, 2001 - 06:59 am:

We did pick up an unusual object on our radars that day, but we dismissed it as a weather balloon

By Stephanie Alles on Sunday, July 29, 2001 - 08:43 am:

Is there anyone else sick of hearing the late 20th and early 21st century humans are ugly barbarians?

By Stephanie Alles on Sunday, July 29, 2001 - 08:47 am:

To John Lang: I guess, Scotty beamed them in

By John A. Lang on Sunday, July 29, 2001 - 12:08 pm:

To Stephanie: How? Scotty was at Plexicorp.

Uhura & Chekov were at the sea vessel Enterprise
McCoy was with Scotty
Sulu was with the helecopter guy
Kirk was with Gillian.

Spock must have a "remote control beamer" or something.

FUNNY THOUGHT... Maybe MALTZ beamed him in. (See STIII)

By John A. Lang on Sunday, July 29, 2001 - 12:13 pm:

I think Saavik's comments on David's bravery was unneccesary because...

1) She already noted David's bravery in STIII
2) Kirk is clearly upset about the whole thing...why bring it up again?
Saavik might as well have taken a sharp knife and stuck it in Kirk's back while making these comments.

THIS is why I say that Saavik would have been a better conspirator in STVI then Valeris.

By Saavik on Sunday, July 29, 2001 - 01:23 pm:

But it's my only line!

By Adam Bomb on Wednesday, August 15, 2001 - 11:33 am:

At the end credits, one of the final credits in the crawl reads "Co-Produced by Industrial Light and Magic." What was the deal with that?
Best credit roll of all nine pics, using scenes from the film to evoke the spirit of TOS.

By Mark Swinton on Saturday, August 18, 2001 - 03:16 pm:

It's been a long time since I did chemistry (and I was never really any good at it) but:

K4Ym3(SO7 Es2)

K - potassium
Ym - clearly, the fictitious Yominium
SO - sulphide
Es - Einsteinium - an element named after the celebrated scientist. One of those man-made ones that have only been identified on the barest shreds of evidence and that are too unstable to exist for very long. Just what in the world would it be doing as part of a sulphide?

By Sven of Nine on Monday, September 10, 2001 - 02:29 am:

John A. Lang - I think the reason Saavik has that one speaking scene in this movie is because of an original line that was cut out (I don't know if it was filmed or not) stating that she was pregnant with Spock's child, given the alleged events in Star Trek 3. In any case, I'd hate to be around Christine Chapel when she hears about this! (Can you say "Hands off! He's mine!"? )

But why was the rest of this scene kept in? Possibly to keep Robin Curtis happy in thinking that her role in this film wasn't a complete dead loss.

And speaking of Saavik and Chapel, the one thing I have with this movie is the opening credit sequence. Many of the names highlighted under the opening credits (namely Amanda, Commander Chapel, etc.) only have bit parts in the movie. I suppose the only reason they're included is to ensure th Trek fans out there that all of their favourite characters from the Original Series (or elsewhere) will be in the movie! But if this is the case, why isn't John Winston mentioned in the opening credits to Star Trek 2?

One more thing - is this the first Star Trek feature to have an Indian human as a starship captain? (i.e. Vijay Amritraj's character) The Encyclopedia suggests that captain's name is something like Joel Randolph, which doesn't sound very Indian Sub-Continental to me!

By Brian Fitzgerald on Monday, September 10, 2001 - 02:59 pm:

Since many of the bit parts were long time trek characters they could have had it as a condition of appearing in the movie that they get listed in the opening credits.

By Adam Bomb on Thursday, September 20, 2001 - 06:33 pm:

How did Saavik get the standard uniform jacket? In the fal-tor-pan scenes in Trek III, she is wearing the heavy uniform coat she wore on Genesis. Does the Bird Of Prey have clothing synthesizers, as well as (lousy) food synthesizers? Does Vulcan have a good laundry service? They must, because although our friends are wearing the same clothes from Trek III, they are all nice and clean, especially Kirk's shirt, which got beat up and bloody in his fight with Kruge.

By Benn on Thursday, September 20, 2001 - 09:37 pm:

It is only logical that the highly efficient Vulcans would have good laundry service.

Kirk: "Spock, how did you get my shirt so clean?"

Spock: "Ancient Vulcan secret, Captain."

McCoy: "'Ancient Vulcan secret', my eye! He used Calgon, Jim!"

By RevdKathy on Saturday, September 22, 2001 - 06:08 am:

Adam Bomb says:"At the end credits, one of the final credits in the crawl reads "Co-Produced by Industrial Light and Magic." What was the deal with that?"

The deal is that ILM had a huge part in making this film. The reality is... (sorry to disillusion anyone) there were no whales!. Humpbacks are far too shy and difficult to film, and can't be trained. (Perhaps, like cats, they're too intelligent?). In the whole film there are a few seconds of Real Whale Footage - all the rest is done using models and moving 'whale parts' provided by ILM. Basically, No ILM, No Voyage Home. They deserved the credit.

BTW, did anybody else notice Spock's ears? I just upgraded to DVD, and you can tell in the aquarium scenes that he ain't wearing the points under that headband.

By Adam Bomb on Saturday, September 22, 2001 - 02:54 pm:

Thanks, RevdKathy. There were stories in the press in 1987 that the model whales were de-skinned and the mechanicals were used for the sharks in "Jaws-The Revenge." Probably the only footage of real whales in the pic were when George and Gracie were frolicking in San Francisco Bay.
I think the "Co-Produced by ILM" credit was also used in 1985's "Young Sherlock Holmes."
The "colorful busrider" was played by Kirk Thatcher, who also served as the pic's associate producer. The song, "I Hate You," was also heard in "Back to the Beach."
Maybe Vulcans use that "Oxy Clean" for their laundry. That stuff is constantly advertised on TNN.

By Adam Bomb on Saturday, September 22, 2001 - 03:28 pm:

Jimmy Doohan really shines here, particularly in the Plexicorp scenes with Dee Kelley and Alex Henteloff (Nichols). When he casts that big grin on his face, it is obvious that he is having the time of his life.
Alex Henteloff also played the sleazy, ambulance chasing lawyer Arnold Ripner on the classic cop sitcom "Barney Miller."
When the transparent aluminum panels were installed, how did Scotty seal them from leaking the tons of water he needed for the whales? The hundred dollars that Kirk got for the glasses would not buy nearly enough caulk. My guess is that they were self-sealing; after all, Scotty is a miracle worker.

By Adam Bomb on Saturday, September 22, 2001 - 03:46 pm:

The area where Spock screens his research on the whales looks like the Engineering intermix chamber where he died in Trek II.
The Federation President in "Trek VI" must come from the same race as the helmsman of the Saratoga.
When Gillian says to Kirk "I have nobody here", could she have seen the Trek episode "Tomorrow Is Yesterday?"
Could a tall man wearing what appears to be a bathrobe and a bandana be ignored in a big city? Possibly in San Francisco, definitely in New York.

By Duke of Earl Grey on Saturday, September 22, 2001 - 04:00 pm:

When the transparent aluminum panels were installed,...

Why is it that so many people are under the misconception (no offense) that Scotty constructed the whale tank from transparent aluminum? He used Plexicorp plexiglass. Dr. Nichols said it would take years to analyze the matrix of the transparent aluminum, so how could he have produced a huge panel of it in just one day?! On the other hand, when Scotty asked how thick a sheet of plexiglass would have to be in order to contain [whatever amount] of water, Dr. Nichols said, "That's easy, 6 inches. We have stuff that size in stock." He obviously traded a large panel of plexiglass for the information about transparent aluminum.

By Derf on Saturday, September 22, 2001 - 04:54 pm:

I'm watching this movie on TNN right now ...

MY nit with TNN is that they performed an unusual bleep ... here is the scene:

Kirk: Status?
Spock: The tank will be finished by morning.
Kirk: That's cutting it closer than you know. What about Team Two?
Spock: No word since beam in. We can only wait for them to call.
Kirk: Okay. Damnit! Been so lucky! We've got two perfect whales right in our hands, if we don't move quickly, we'll lose them.
Spock: In that event, the probabilities are that our mission will fail.
Kirk: Our mission? Spock you're talking about the end of every life on Earth! You're half human, haven't you got any [bleep]damm feelings about that?

It appears that TNN ALLOWS the word damm ... but thinks GOD cannot be heard over public TV waves ...

By Derf on Saturday, September 22, 2001 - 05:07 pm:

Just for completeness' sake ...
The same bleep occurs when McCoy & Kirk are in the elevator with the two interns and the remark by McCoy is made ... "Sounds like the [bleep] damm Spanish Inquisition!"

By Duke of Earl Grey on Saturday, September 22, 2001 - 05:39 pm:

I also think that's a kind of funny bleeping case, but I think it's based on the opinion that saying G** d*** is worse than just saying d*** (which is a notion I can agree with), not on the idea that "God" cannot be said on TV.

By Derf on Saturday, September 22, 2001 - 07:45 pm:

I also have that opinion ... but suppose I was a NEW guy (or a recent foreign immigrant) who new NOT the ways of America? ... (just a thought for you folk that demanded that bleeping out GOD instead of damm was such a great idea ...)

By Derf on Saturday, September 22, 2001 - 07:49 pm:

Upon a few moments of quiet intropection ... perhaps bleeping out the word GOD IS a safer bet than the word damm ...

By Brian Fitzgerald on Sunday, September 23, 2001 - 08:11 am:

It appears that TNN ALLOWS the word damm ... but thinks GOD cannot be heard over public TV waves ...

They are far from alone in bleeping God Damm but not damm. With the exception of commedy central (South Park) almost every basic cable network will allow God, or Damm but not together, and of course "Haven't you got any God feelings about that" makes less sense than "Haven't you got any damm feelings about that" which still has the same meaning as the origional phrase.

By Adam Bomb on Sunday, September 23, 2001 - 12:26 pm:

My comment was in regard to how Scotty kept the whale tank from leaking, Duke, but you make a good point. However, the plexiglass that was installed seemed somewhat thinner than six inches, but thicker than one inch.
As our friends come upon the streets of San Francisco, one of the first cars seen is a Pontiac Fiero. This car was taken out of production after the 1988 model year, due to the fact that it would spontaneously combust. I haven't seen one of these cars in years, and I forgot it was ever built, until the latest screening of this pic.

By Derf on Sunday, September 23, 2001 - 10:21 pm:

In regard to the scene where the "plexiglass/maybe-transparent aluminum" is descending into the ship ... isn't McCoy wearing protective eyewear that would suggest welding is going on? And if welding IS going on ... WHY, when the plate is descending into the ship, are we given a view of a portion of the plate with an apparent DRILLED HOLE in it? ... and isn't SCOTTY doing the welding in the background? ... I thought HE was upside directing Sulu to the correct path of descent for the plate!

(I'm going totally by memory with this nit ... if I get any details wrong, I'm sure my fellow de-nitters will oblige)

By Anonymous on Monday, November 12, 2001 - 04:42 pm:

You gave the 6 charges, and then you said that there were 3 charges on assaulting officers. That, last I checked, adds up to not 8 but 9, which would nullify the nit.

By Derf on Tuesday, November 13, 2001 - 12:37 pm:

Luigi Novi ... I assume this "anonymous" post is directed at you ... (see Luigi Novi post of June 9, 2001). It appears that "Anonymous" is having problems with your math skills ...

By Mikey on Tuesday, November 13, 2001 - 06:20 pm:

Luigi's math is right.

Luigi didn't say 3 additional charges. He said that perhaps one of the six charges counts as 3 separate charges, making the total 8, not 9:

Conspiracy (1)
Assault of Federation officers (3)
Theft of the Enterprise (1)
Sabotage of the Excelsior (1)
Destruction of the Enterprise (1)
Disobeying orders (1)

Total charges (8)

By LUIGI NOVI on Tuesday, November 13, 2001 - 10:30 pm:

Don't worry, Anon. I'm sure after the next movie, they'd find more charges to pile on top of the list.

By Anonymous on Wednesday, November 14, 2001 - 05:45 pm:

Whoops, sorry, I see now. Never mind.

By Peter Stoller on Thursday, December 27, 2001 - 11:09 pm:

There's no reason to land their ship at all, Golden Gate Park or elsewhere. They're able to keep the cloak on and the transporter operational throughout their visit to San Francisco, so wouldn't it have made more sense to park it in a geosynch orbit? Okay, the transporter acts up only once, when they have to get Chekov, but throughout the film they are beaming instead of walking back aboard the ship, even when they're driven right up to its doorstep. However, when escaping the hospital they materialize in the park first instead of directly on the ship.

The whale tank doesn't have to be transparent, it's just gotta be able to hold the whales.

What's that 747 that flew 'em to Alaska got on it, a cuisinart?! How do you get a whale aboard a 747, let alone two? What kind of hatch could they possibly fit through?

How can whale song reach an alien probe out in space, and why would a whale song placate the thing?

By Mike M on Thursday, January 10, 2002 - 02:29 pm:

Heres an idea for Kirk and Co. Bring the whales back a couple of days before the probe arrives. Of course, then we wouldn't have the dramatic "rescue to whales" scene.

By ScottN on Thursday, January 10, 2002 - 03:31 pm:

Mike M, they couldn't return to an exact time, hence Spock's line about making a guess.

Of course, I still don't understand why they need to do the high-warp-around-the-sun thing to get back to the 23rd century. All they need to do is go somewhere at really high impulse and let Relativity do it's thing.

By Kai on Friday, January 11, 2002 - 10:18 am:

Plus that makes more sense and un-nits the whole why going around the sun one way takes you backward in time, while going around the other way takes you forward

By Sir Rhosis on Wednesday, January 16, 2002 - 06:59 pm:

Note when Kirk and Spock are waiting to get on the bus, while they're talking about George and Gracie, etc., an older man passes behind them, suddenly seems to recognize Shatner, but passes out of frame before stopping or gawking too much.

As most of you probably know, Madilyn of "Not now Madilyn" is Casandra Peterson, aka Elvira.

Spock was visible siwmming in the tank a good ten seconds while everybdy was looking before the little old lady "first" saw him.

Anybody ever notice that the bulk of the events of this film take place over an early morning (and this is not considering how long it took them to get to Earth from Vulcan), a full day, a night and a good portion of the next day, and nobody seems to get any sleep, but all are still fresh and vibrant by the time they return home.

When the hatch is first blown, from inside the BOP, it looks awful much like there is a black "wall" outside the ship. I know it's supposed to be clouds, but looks to me just like a studio backdrop or cloth or somesuch.

By ScottN on Wednesday, February 20, 2002 - 10:30 am:

TRANSPARENT ALUMINUM!!!!!

Use Babelfish to translate from the German.

By ScottN on Friday, March 01, 2002 - 10:35 am:

Since Kirk's glasses were broken in STII, they had to be repaired. Now, apparently the frames are antiques, but would McCoy replace broken lenses with glass? Or would he use some 23rd century optical compound? Especially since he didn't know he'd be going back in time and that Kirk would have to sell them?

Today, very few glasses are made with glass, but instead have plastic or polycarbonate lenses. Wouldn't the 23rd century lenses tip off the antique dealer that something was funny?

By Duke of Earl Grey on Friday, March 01, 2002 - 04:45 pm:

The antique dealer said that the frames would be more valuable if the lenses were intact, so Kirk's glasses apparently had no lenses when he showed them to the dealer. Either he took out the new lenses, or the old lenses were never replaced.

By ScottN on Friday, March 01, 2002 - 06:26 pm:

Ah. Never mind that nit, then, since you anti-nitted it quite nicely.

By Jesse on Monday, March 11, 2002 - 03:31 pm:

When the transparent aluminum panels were installed, how did Scotty seal them from leaking the tons of water he needed for the whales?

First off, as someone mentioned, they were plexiglas, not transparent Al. Second, I'm sure that Dr. Nichols threw in some epoxy as part of the deal.

ALSO--in the closing credits, note that marine sergeant is spelled "Marine Sargent"; it's right at the end of the cast credits.

By Jesse on Monday, March 11, 2002 - 03:41 pm:

After the verdict is delivered, many of the council members seem surprised. Why? Aren't they the ones that made the decision?

I don't think these are council members; I think the seats are being used as a visitors' galley. Also, I speculate that we never actually saw the council in session. In the beginning, Kamarag (the Klingon amb. played by John Schuck) is making a big speech about Kirk, and Sarek joins in for Kirk. However, the President says that "the Council's deliberations are over" and notes that "Adm. Kirk has been charged with nine violations of Starfleet regs." Now, notice that no vote was ever taken on the matter. Unless the Council President serves as dictator (a lot like Mon Mothma in Zahn's Star Wars trilogy), the decision to end the debate and press charges against Kirk was done BEFORE this scene took place.

It's possible that Kamarag is being granted an audience only as a diplomatic courtesy. In that case, it may not be the council he is before; it may just be whoever has a vested interest in hearing his words.

However, I have one gripe: why is Kirk sentenced by the Council President? OK, I can understand the Council's involvement. Kirk is a high-ranking official (not a captain or some other junior officer), and his disobedience would be invesigated by civilian authorities. Too, the nature of his offense pertains to interstellar relations, not just internal Starfleet affairs. So, fine, I can see the UFP Council's interest.

BUT the President tells Kamarag that Kirk has been charged with 9 violations of Starfleet regs. To me, it seems that since no civilian charges are to be brought against him (because the Klingons are just as culpable, if not moreso, than Kirk), the remainder of the proceedings should be handled by Starfleet in a court-martial setting like we saw in "The Menagerie" or "Space Seed."

By LUIGI NOVI on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 12:36 am:

Makes sense. There�s a lot more hot air around when Kirk talks.
On the page at Movie Mistakes for this film at http://www.movie-mistakes.co.uk/film.php?filmid=1220 , it was pointed out that the candle on the table in the Italian restaurant where Kirk and Gillian speak changes height depending who is talking. It is lower when Gillian is talking.
Yeah, but it�s hard to get one with a hole in the back for when he poops
Someone who posted to Movie Mistakes asserted that reactor rooms are sealed spaces. No marine with a dog would be able to patrol it, especially without a radiation suit.
Chekov: Okay, Uhura, Plan B: We find de nearest X-Ray technician�
A poster to Movie Mistakes, referring to Chekov and Uhura�s plan to collect high-energy photons from the aircraft carrier, asserted that when he served aboard a nuclear powered ship, they normally shut down the reactor after they came into port, as the amount of radiation produced from a shut down nuclear reactor is minimal.
He must be great with Rorschach tests
Movie Mistakes pointed out that after arriving back in the 23rd century and crashing in the water, Kirk orders Spock to blow the hatch so the crew can escape, and from inside the ship, you can see the top of an industrial shed. I reviewed this scene, and I did in fact notice that there was something there that shouldn�t have been. But I don�t know how the person submitting this one have identified it as an industrial shed.

By Merat on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 06:44 am:

Its probably the top of the huge screen/wall nearby that you can see in some of the pictures of the making of this movie.

By LUIGI NOVI on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 07:00 pm:

Peter Stoller: What's that 747 that flew 'em to Alaska got on it, a cuisinart?! How do you get a whale aboard a 747, let alone two? What kind of hatch could they possibly fit through?
Luigi Novi: During her dinner with Kirk, Gillian specifically referred to it as a "special" 747.

BTW, when they leave Spock off at Golden Gate park before going to the Italian restaurant, Gillian's pickup turns around to drive out of the park, and Spock is immediately beamed aboard. This is NOT a good idea, as Gillian and Kirk are still easily within line of sight, and while the truck isn't facing Spock, she could easily see him be beamed out in her rear view mirror.

By Lolar Windrunner on Friday, March 15, 2002 - 06:11 pm:

There is a special cargo varient 747 in which I forget whether its the whole front or the whole back is hinged and the interior is just a big empty cavern. I rembered seeing it in relation to some big stuff NASA was hauling.

By Adam Bomb on Thursday, March 21, 2002 - 08:15 am:

The scene on the bus between Kirk, Spock and the punk with the radio was reminiscent of (dare I say lifted from) a scene from a classic episode of "Hill Street Blues." In that ep (recently run on Bravo) the punk is also playing his radio very loud. Officer Lucy Bates (Betty Thomas) is undercover as the bus driver, and after the argument, she throws the punk off the bus.
Classic line from that episode:
Punk (to Bates): "What are you, my mother?"
Bates (right back): "Do I look like a test tube?"

By Bill on Monday, April 01, 2002 - 01:04 am:

Maybe this has been mentioned before, but why would necessarily the punk's radio shut off when Spock pinched him?

In the ending credits, Grace Lee Whitney is credited as "Commander Rand". Good! It's better to see than the "Woman In Cafeteria" credit given to her in the third movie.

Is that woman that walked into the office really Cassandra Peterson of "Elvira" fame? It certainly does not look like her, even without all of the make-up. (No jokes please, I am just looking at her face.)

By kerriem. on Monday, April 01, 2002 - 05:45 am:

Maybe this has been mentioned before, but why would necessarily the punk's radio shut off when Spock pinched him?

'Cause after Spock pinches him, the punk's head flops forward onto the boombox's OFF switch. It's part of the gag.

By LUIGI NOVI on Monday, April 01, 2002 - 08:20 am:

The scene on the bus with the punk was Nicholas Meyer's way of addressing his dislike for punk rock, which he originally wrote for Time After Time. (See the first nit in my June 9, 2001 post above).

Freud would have a field day with this
Graham Kennedy, on his website at http://www.ditl.org/index.htm?daymain=/articles/hedklinbop.htm, pointed out that the shot of the Vulcans using the Bird of Prey�s aft ramp to load supplies onto it in the beginning of the movie shows the proportion of the ship to the ramp and the Vulcans to be far different than it did when Kirk and crew used it to disembark at the end of ST III. The ramp and the Vulcans look HUGE in comparison. See for yourself by comparing the shot of Kirk and crew using it at http://www.ditl.org/gpaf/GBirdofprey4.jpg to the shot of the Vulcans using it at http://www.ditl.org/gpaf/GBirdofprey6.jpg.

By Adam Bomb on Monday, April 01, 2002 - 08:46 am:

Makes me wonder how the scene would have played in "Time After Time." It just plays somewhat like that "Hill Street Blues" scene, especially because Bravo played that ep (my favorite "Hill" ep, BTW) very recently, and I had a chance to revisit it. One major difference is that the exchange between Officer Bates and the punk was a bit raucous, while in "Trek IV," the punk remained silent; his only gesture was flipping the bird at Kirk.
BTW, as for punk rock, I saw The Clash in New York City in 1979. They put on a great show. My appearance was totally straight, both then and now.

By ScottN on Monday, April 01, 2002 - 10:19 am:

They put on a good show at US'83 as well.

By Anonymous on Monday, June 03, 2002 - 03:15 pm:

john, they couldn t get a ship until next tuesday, vulkan time ^5

By John A. Lang on Sunday, June 16, 2002 - 02:39 pm:

Here's one...Did anyone notice the mountain that Spock was standing on was the SAME MOUNTAIN seen in the TOS episode "Arena"? (Where Kirk ran up it and rolled the boulder)

By Sir Rhosis on Sunday, June 30, 2002 - 03:54 am:

^^^Vasquez Rocks. They're in several eps, TOS and a couple in TNG.

By John A. Lang on Sunday, October 27, 2002 - 06:34 am:

NANJAO: Gillian's sweater. It appears tight in some shots. It appears she's not wearing a bra. (I'm not complaining mind you, I just enjoyed the "view")

By Mike Ram on Saturday, November 16, 2002 - 09:58 pm:

Two things bother me about this movie:

After beaming the whales up, Sulu warps the BoP out of Earth's atmosphere and a few minutes later, Spock and Sulu get the ship up to warp 7 or so and whip around the sun.

-First off, it seems to take a while for the ship to get out of orbit even though it's travelling at warp. Also, even though the Ent-1701 warped out of atmospheres all the time, by the time of DS9's "By Inferno's Light," starfleet officers don't account for the ease of this maneuver (when Kira says to head to the Bajoran sun at warp to catch the changeling's runabout, Dax reacts with surprise since going to warp even inside a solar system is dangerous). Furthermore, in "By Inferno's Light" the Defiant warps to the Bajoran sun in a few seconds, yet in ST4 it takes almost a minute just to reach the sun from Earth, even though they're going at warp 7!


After the last shot of the Ent-A, the ending credits music beings.

-I was wondering what the "official" ending theme to this movie is? When I rented it a while ago, it had the "happy whales" theme...but after watching it on tv a few times, I've heard either the whales theme or a reprise of the main titles theme.

By Adam Bomb on Sunday, November 17, 2002 - 02:57 am:

Actually, the end titles have both. When the credits begin to roll, the main title theme commences. It then segues into the whales theme, then the main title theme reprises. (That is how it appeared in the theatrical prints, video and DVD.) When TNN runs this pic, the end credits are speeded up, and the music is edited. Why they're speeded up, I don't know. TNN runs this pic in a three hour slot; the original running time was just shy of two hours.

By Craig the slightly sarcastic Rohloff on Sunday, November 17, 2002 - 01:11 pm:

So they can (a) fit in still more important commercial messages and (b) show the credits they're legally obligated to, but without taking so long to do so, because other than us Nitpickers, who reads credits anyway?

By ScottN on Sunday, November 17, 2002 - 01:39 pm:

After the BoP crashes into the Pacific (not SF Bay -- see my earlier comments on that), and we're waiting for the whales to talk to the probe, there's a short cut to Starfleet Command, where everyone is standing around, waiting for it too.

How do they know that there are whales there to talk to the probe? From their point of view, the sequence of events was:

• Loss of contact with Kirk
• Admiral saying "Get him back!"
• Window blows in
• Sarek sees BoP

By Merat on Sunday, November 17, 2002 - 04:41 pm:

I had always seen that as them trying to figure out what the devil Kirk is doing crashing a Klingon Bird of Prey into the ocean moments after he said he would be going back in time to get the whales. Either that or they were, knowing Kirk's reputation, waiting to see if he had succeded in getting the whales.

By Mike Ram on Sunday, November 17, 2002 - 06:33 pm:

Thanks for the info, Adam, but I have heard one version where the "whale theme" starts right after the Ent-A warps away, and another version where the "main title theme reprise" starts right after the Ent-A warps away. Maybe the different music occurs because of the amount of time needed for commercial breaks.

By Influx on Monday, November 18, 2002 - 07:58 am:

Does TNN still "squish" everything they show? I tried watching a few minutes of TNG and at first wondered why it looked like Worf had gained 15 pounds. Then I saw everyone else looked that way, too. Apparently they squish the picture up from the bottom in order to display that useless black bar with the title of the show you're watching. I won't even look at TNN anymore.

By Mike Ram on Monday, November 18, 2002 - 10:26 pm:

They also ANNOYINGLY squish half the screen off during the closing credits of NextGen to show that TNN commercial with the two guys talking about B'Etor's appeal. They show that commercial enough times during the day, I don't see why they have to have it then!

And yes, they did that with much of ST4's end credits too, to promote their upcoming movies and such.

By Adam Bomb on Sunday, December 29, 2002 - 09:59 pm:

New Year's Eve Alert:
TNN is airing Trek movies II thru V on 12/31, 9 a.m. - 3 a.m.

Happy New Year.

By LUIGI NOVI on Monday, December 30, 2002 - 03:59 am:

Kirk: "And Uhura, can you account for all the plot holes in this script?"
Uhura: "Sorry, sir. That�s beyond even my capabilities."
When first hearing the probe�s signal, Kirk goes to Uhura and says, "Can you modify the probe�s signal, accounting for density, and temperature and solidity factors?" Uhura does this, and when she plays the signal, it sounds like whale song. Kirk says, "And this is what it would sound like underwater?" Why does "accounting for density, and temperature and solidity factors" mean "changing the sound to what it would sound like underwater"? The two phrases do not seem to be synonymous.
---This also casts further doubt on the issue of communication between Earth whales and whoever sent that probe. Whale song are not some exotic medium or form of energy. So how can they travel into outer space?
He must be watching a lot of Enterprise.
When Spock first concludes that the probe�s signal is Humpback whale song, Bones says, "Who would send a probe hundreds of light years to talk to a whale?" I know it could be argued as just a verbal quirk that occurs when someone speaks without thinking, but it seems like a very small scale of interstellar distances for Bones to have. I would�ve said "thousands," or "millions."
It was a dream. Kirk was remembering Scotty�s last appointment at Weight Watchers.
That dream-like series of images that we see after the Bounty begins to travel through time is nice, but what exactly is it? Is it intended as some type of subtextual montage, or something? At first I thought it was a dream Kirk or someone else was having, but it can�t be that, because among the things we hear during the sequence is Scotty�s line "Admiral, there be WHALES here!", which doesn�t occur until later in the movie, and Bones� line, "My God, Jim, where are we?"
Because the punk was listening to Rush Limbaugh�s show, and when he changed it to deafening music, the bus driver was too grateful to ask for anything else
For as long as I can remember, the buses where I live always had signs forbidding the playing of radios. Why doesn�t the bus driver tell the punk to turn his radio off?
He read Mac Plus for Psychics
Phil Farrand pointed out in his TOS Guide how Dr. Nichols� Mac Plus computer couldn�t possibly run the calculations that Scotty inputs. I would like to elaborate by pointing out that Scotty doesn�t seem to be hitting enough keys�or the right ones�to correspond to all the windows that open onscreen, or the information that is displayed. I also find the speed with which Scotty learns to use the keyboard to be implausible, particularly given his comments about how "quaint" he finds keyboards.
Maybe the report was written by John Edward
When Kirk, Bones and Gillian first go to the hospital, Bones sees an elderly woman being given kidney dialysis, and gives her a pill to swallow. About three minutes and forty-seven seconds later (Hey, forty-seven!), with no discernible time jump, they�re escaping through the hospital corridors with Chekov, and they pass by that same woman, elated about being given a "new kidney." Two of her doctors, who are wheeling her through the corridor, are dumbstruck as they look at her chart and see that her kidneys are "fully functional." Exactly how could they know that her kidneys are now fully functional? Exactly what test could they perform that would enable them to not only see this, but to write up a report and be reading it in the corridors less than four minutes after she took that pill?


Aaron Dotter: The Enterprise-A seems to be in OK shape in this movie. How did it get in such bad shape in the next one? Was it being upgraded or something?
Luigi Novi: What exactly do we see of the ship in this movie? We see it go to warp. That�s it.

Snickerdoodle: Okay, mid-Eighties, Cold War's still on, you come across a loony with a Russian accent asking for directions to the nearest naval base containing "nuclear wessels". What do you do?
Luigi Novi: I wouldn�t refuse to give directions just because the guy has a Russian accent. He could be an immigrant, a visitor, a defector, etc. He has an African American woman with him, and why assume the Naval base security can�t deal with him themselves if he�s up to no good? Besides, the cop starting staring at them after Chekov merely asked for directions to the Naval Base, before he said anything about nuclear vessels. I certainly wouldn�t assume that a spy would be dumb enough to go right up to me (a cop) and ask me where the nuclear vessels are.

Stephanie Alles: At Starfleet headquarters, when they look at weather pictures, the time jumps from 18:06 to 16:06. Later there were more weather pictures all with another time. At least 09:?? can�t be true, assuming the probe started to get weird not before 14:00
Luigi Novi: During that first scene, we first see a shot of a bolt of lightning, and then orbital footage of a hurricane. It�s possible that Starfleet Command is reviewing reports from all over the planet over the past few hours, and that those different shots are simply different pieces of footage being reviewed at random, possibly from different times in the day, or from different time zones.

As for the latter scene, I couldn�t find any with a reference to the 0900 hour. Where exactly was it?

John A. Lang: WHO beamed up Spock when Gillian & Kirk dropped him off at the park? All the landing party was doing their tasks!
Luigi Novi: It�s possible that in procuring the cooperation of the helicopter pilot, Sulu reported back to the Bounty, perhaps to get something to help pay the pilot for the use of the copter.

Adam Bomb: How did Saavik get the standard uniform jacket? In the fal-tor-pan scenes in Trek III, she is wearing the heavy uniform coat she wore on Genesis. Does the Bird Of Prey have clothing synthesizers, as well as (lousy) food synthesizers? Does Vulcan have a good laundry service? They must, because although our friends are wearing the same clothes from Trek III, they are all nice and clean, especially Kirk's shirt, which got beat up and bloody in his fight with Kruge.
Luigi Novi: Why can�t there simply be uniforms on Vulcan? Wouldn�t there be a Starfleet presence on what is certainly one of the Federation�s charter members?

Adam Bomb: The area where Spock screens his research on the whales looks like the Engineering intermix chamber where he died in Trek II.
Luigi Novi: The one commonality I noticed was that bank of eight light bulbs behind Spock when Bones asks "Who would send a probe hundreds of light years to talk to a whale?", two of which are behind Spock in II when he removes the cover from the reactor. This isn�t a nit, though, because we know that the Vulcans have outfitted and upgraded much of the Bounty with Starfleet equipment, so finding light fixtures on the Bounty that we saw on the Enterprise isn�t unlikely.

Adam Bomb: However, the plexiglass that was installed seemed somewhat thinner than six inches, but thicker than one inch.
Luigi Novi: I dunno. The shot of the rim on the underside as Scotty is descending the ladder looks like it could be six inches, but that drilled hole does look a bit smaller.

Adam Bomb: As our friends come upon the streets of San Francisco, one of the first cars seen is a Pontiac Fiero. This car was taken out of production after the 1988 model year, due to the fact that it would spontaneously combust. I haven't seen one of these cars in years, and I forgot it was ever built, until the latest screening of this pic.
Luigi Novi: Were you making a nit, or just reminiscing, Adam? (Cuz since this film is set in 1986, I don�t see why it would be a nit.)

Derf: When the plexiglass is descending into the ship ... isn't McCoy wearing protective eyewear that would suggest welding is going on? And if welding IS going on ... WHY, when the plate is descending into the ship, are we given a view of a portion of the plate with an apparent DRILLED HOLE in it?
Luigi Novi: I reviewed this scene, and Bones is not wearing goggles. Also, I�m not an expert on this, but can plexiglass be welded? When I was in art school, we used plastic glue guns to seal them. I�m guessing this would probably not be feasible for such large pieces holding water and whales, Scotty probably has 23rd century sealants in his tool kit.

Sir Rhosis: Note when Kirk and Spock are waiting to get on the bus, while they're talking about George and Gracie, etc., an older man passes behind them, suddenly seems to recognize Shatner, but passes out of frame before stopping or gawking too much.
Luigi Novi: Nothing indicates he recognizes Shatner. He�s just passing by and is looking around, the same everyone else does when they walk down the street. His facial expression is pretty casual, and doesn�t change when he looks at Shatner, and besides�he�s standing BEHIND Shatner.

Sir Rhosis As most of you probably know, Madelaine of "Not now Madelaine " is Casandra Peterson, aka Elvira.
Luigi Novi: And if she thought the horror shows she was used to were frightening, just wait until she meets the some of the Trekkies on the convention circuit!

Sir Rhosis: Anybody ever notice that the bulk of the events of this film take place over an early morning (and this is not considering how long it took them to get to Earth from Vulcan), a full day, a night and a good portion of the next day, and nobody seems to get any sleep, but all are still fresh and vibrant by the time they return home.
Luigi Novi: Nothing indicates they were working all night, or that they didn�t sneak in catnaps here and there.

ScottN: Today, very few glasses are made with glass, but instead have plastic or polycarbonate lenses. Wouldn't the 23rd century lenses tip off the antique dealer that something was funny?
Luigi Novi: Even if the lenses were 23rd century ones, how would an antique dealer know the lenses were from the 23rd century? Do antique dealers commonly keep laser mass spectrometers in their workshops?

ScottN: After the BoP crashes into the Pacific, and we're waiting for the whales to talk to the probe, there's a short cut to Starfleet Command, where everyone is standing around, waiting for it too. How do they know that there are whales there to talk to the probe? Why are they waiting for the whales to answer?
Luigi Novi: They�re not. Nothing indicates that they know about the whales. They�re standing around because there�s nothing else to do with power out.

ScottN: Shouldn't they be trying to get the computers or emergency power up or something?
Luigi Novi: I think emergency power already is up. Otherwise, how could all those viewscreens be turned on?

By Sven of Nine on Monday, December 30, 2002 - 07:55 am:

Luigi: Two of her doctors, who are wheeling her through the corridor, are dumbstruck as they look at her chart and see that her kidneys are "fully functional." Exactly how could they know that her kidneys are now fully functional? Exactly what test could they perform that would enable them to not only see this, but to write up a report and be reading it in the corridors less than four minutes after she took that pill?

Good question. The test doctors do to determine renal function is to look for urea and creatinine levels in the blood (these are products of tissue breakdown which are eliminated by the kidneys and end up in the urine), although a more accurate test is for "creatinine clearance" which looks at the amount of creatinine passed out into the urine over a period of time (it's usually 24 hours).

Now, today one could easily call up blood test results in a matter of hours after the test is done - certainly for tests determining the composition of blood cells themselves, but perhaps a little later for urea and creatinine and other biochemistry tests. But this film is set in 1986, and chances are the systems for processing of blood samples and even tests themselves are relatively more antiquated that one could expect results in about one day. Definitely not in a few hours or so (depending on how quickly the repair of Chekov's intracranial arteries took).

Even then, I'm truly amazed that such a brand new kidney can grow from such a small pill, and in such a small space of time. Considerations include the actual time for cell devision, differentiation and maturation into clearly-defined roles, plus the need to form good connections with the ureters and blood supply... and let's not even go into the subject of organ rejection.

Regarding Chekov himself, why oh why was his windpipe not secured in theatre? He's unconscious, so by definition his airway will be blocked due to his now lax throat muscles collapsing on the airway.

And what of Chekov's complications, such as meningitis and other permanent brain damage? Is he really fit to navigate a Bird of Prey so soon?

By Craig Rohloff on Monday, December 30, 2002 - 10:10 am:

That's twentieth century "dark ages" medicine for you! How primitive!

By Sven of Nine on Monday, December 30, 2002 - 11:12 am:

Yeah, thank goodness we're in the 21st Century!

By LUIGI NOVI on Monday, December 30, 2002 - 03:54 pm:

Thanks for the greater detail, Sven, in particular the part about cell division and his windpipe. As for your comment, But this film is set in 1986, and chances are the systems for processing of blood samples and even tests themselves are relatively more antiquated that one could expect results in about one day. Definitely not in a few hours or so (depending on how quickly the repair of Chekov's intracranial arteries took)., from the time Bones gave that lady that pill, to when they next saw her, was less than four minutes, so his arteries took less. From the time Bones placed that device on his forehead and turned it on to when the noise it was making changed (which coincided with Chekov blinking his closed eyes) was only 18 seconds.

By LUIGI NOVI on Monday, December 30, 2002 - 04:02 pm:

Though I should add that I don't think that pill actually grew her a new kidney, but that that's simply what that lady thought it did, or that she was speaking in shorthand. It probably just repaired her damaged kidneys, but then your point about cell division is still appropriate, especially since that pill would need time to dissolved into her bloodstream, but then this is no different then what we see when someone used dermal regenerator.

By `Doc` Sven of Nine on Monday, December 30, 2002 - 07:29 pm:

Knackered kidneys look all shrivelled-up and scarred, because of the fibrotic tissue from tissue damage. It would be difficult to repair fibrosed, shrunken kidneys unless there was some magical 23rd Century doohickey doing all the cellular regeneration (not "dermal" regeneration - that word implies the skin is involved... pick, pick, pick) or, indeed, acting as a miraculous surrogate kidney. To add another factor, it would also take a huge amount of effort (and time) for the suddenly-functioning kidney to correct ALL the electrolyte and waste-product imbalances in the lady's body that had accumulated all this time (which would have necessitated all the dialysis in the first place) - but I think TPTB would allow this assuming her 1986-era dialysis machines were fully functional and keeping her electrolytes just about in the safety zone.

Another thought on Chekov's head injury - yes, the artery causing all the bleeding does need to be repaired to prevent further bleeding - and indeed there are may techniques which focus on this intervention (though earlier interventions would include limiting the bleeding by actually reducing blood flow to the brain or by drawing oedema away from the brain itself), but then again the massive clot which is pushing Chekov further into coma also needs to be dealt with first and foremost. Even today, massive haematomas that compress the brain and form a dense clot tend to be surgically removed if deemed critical and life-threatening. (But perhaps McCoy's device was a transdermal clot-buster which zapped the huge mass and did everything except make the tea.) And in any head injury, the wound would be explored anyway, to check for anything that doesn't belong.

But the lack of airway management is inexcusable. I would fire the anaesthetist in charge immediately.

By Sven of blind on Monday, December 30, 2002 - 07:34 pm:

OK, forget what I said about dermal regenerators - I've not been reading things well this hour.

By LUIGI NOVI on Monday, December 30, 2002 - 09:49 pm:

Okay. Scott, I couldn't find any earlier reference to any Pacific Ocean/San Francisco Bay nit. What was that about? Is the P.O. on the left side of the bridge and S.F.B. on the left (in the shot of the Bounty crashing)?

By ScottN on Monday, December 30, 2002 - 10:20 pm:

Must have been lost in the great nitcentral crash, but yes, Luigi, that's my point. They fly over Starfleet HQ, and crash under the bridge, thus they are in the Pacific Ocean. But the closing shot shows the whales going west under the bridge out into the ocean.

By LUIGI NOVI on Tuesday, December 31, 2002 - 03:59 am:

Okay. And Sven, I have a question about nit about Chekov's windpipe. Aren't you "unconscious" when you're sleeping? So long as autonomic responses like breathing are intact, would this necessarily happen to someone in a coma? Or is coma always accompanied by loss of all autonomic responses?

By `Doc` Sven of Nine on Tuesday, December 31, 2002 - 06:12 am:

The muscles that pull on each other and keep the upper part of your airway open only do so when you're awake - it's autonomic in the sense that you're not aware of it. When you go to sleep, you lose much of the tension in these muscles, and so naturally they start to collapse (by which I mean the width of the airway narrows down, as opposed to folds in on itself completely, though bits of mucus and other things also contribute to the airway collapse), restricting air flow into the windpipe. In some people, the airway narrows down so much during sleep that the lax muscles vibrate loudly during breathing when that person sleeps. It's called snoring.

In medical practice, if a person is found to be unconscious for any insidious reason, such as a severe head injury, the first priority is always to ensure the airway is as open as it possibly can (and, in the case of head injury, to secure the neck in a rigid position). Just because someone is unconscious and appears to be breathing (i.e. the chest rises and falls) doesn't mean that any air is actually geting into the lungs - for the autonomic system may still be controlling the breathing movement itself. If he is unconscious, he might need to be intubated to properly secure a good air flow into the lungs - if he was fully conscious, we can assume his throat muscles are doing their job and that any airway obstruction is due to another thing such as a foreign body or even the tongue blocking the way.

We use the Glasgow Coma Scale (GCS) to determine the level of coma someone is in - it is a measure of how alert a patient is in terms of movement responses, verbal responses, and responses by eye-opening, where a GCS of 15 is a fully alert patient (the minimum score one can get is 3). Coma is defined as a GCS of 8 or below. Autonomic functions can decline in coma, depending on the extent of brain damage: in Chekov's case his head injury may have caused a huge bleed which is pressing down on his brain and damaging the part responsible for most of his autonomic functions. Of course, if coma did involve loss of all autonomic responses, you'd die very quickly, since you'd go into respiratory arrest and your heart would slow to a crawl.

Hope that helps.

By `Doc` Sven of Nine again on Tuesday, December 31, 2002 - 06:19 am:

Having said that, today people in a coma tend to be in an intensive care unit anyway, and are on mechanical ventilation for the lungs and inotropes for the heart (and even dialysis for suspected kidney failure). This is usually due to multiple organ failure from the underlying cause (which is very bad news) rather than simple autonomic failure.

By LUIGI NOVI on Tuesday, December 31, 2002 - 07:27 am:

Wow. Thanks! Are you doctor, Sven, or do you just play one at Nit-C?

By `Not Yet Doc` Sven of Nine on Tuesday, December 31, 2002 - 07:44 am:

In six months, Luigi. Six months.

By CR on Tuesday, December 31, 2002 - 08:56 am:

Congratulations, albeit prematurely, Sven. Any speciality?

By `Nearly Doc` Sven of Nine on Tuesday, December 31, 2002 - 11:53 am:

Not sure yet. Paediatrics, psychiatry and accident and emergency medicine are particular favourites of mine so far - I might end up as a GP.

By Sven of Nine Nine Nine on Tuesday, December 31, 2002 - 11:57 am:

Yet I can't help but feel that 2003 is going to bring for me a Happy New ER...

By LUIGI NOVI on Tuesday, December 31, 2002 - 01:18 pm:

Congratulations, Sven. Did you skip a few grades? Isn't 23 a bit young to complete your education?

And Happy New Year.

By Sven of Nine on Tuesday, December 31, 2002 - 01:31 pm:

Hey, let's not break the champagne yet - I've still got Finals to go through!

In fact, I took a year out to do a final year Honours degree when I was 20, and even then, 23 is a usual age for the undergraduate degree to be completed. After that, the REAL learning begins.

ANyway, time to steer this ship back on topic again...

By Sven again on Tuesday, December 31, 2002 - 01:32 pm:

But thanks again. And Happy New Year to you all as well.

By Adam Bomb on Tuesday, December 31, 2002 - 03:36 pm:

Congratulations and Happy New Year to you, Sven, and to you all.
Luigi-I was just reminiscing about the Fiero. BTW, thre were two Fieros seen in Trek IV. The second one is seen right before Scotty, Sulu and McCoy encounter the Pac Bell sign. An MG also rides by right before Kirk's encounter with the cab; this car stopped being imported to the U.S. long before this movie was made. (Again, NANJAO.)

By Josh M on Tuesday, January 07, 2003 - 10:11 pm:

Luigi Novi: That dream-like series of images that we see after the Bounty begins to travel through time is nice, but what exactly is it? Is it intended as some type of subtextual montage, or something? At first I thought it was a dream Kirk or someone else was having, but it can�t be that, because among the things we hear during the sequence is Scotty�s line "Admiral, there be WHALES here!", which doesn�t occur until later in the movie, and Bones� line, "My God, Jim, where are we?"
I wonder if it is somekind of dream resulting because of the fact that they travel through time. The time travel allows us to hear what they will say later in the movie, in the "future" (such as Kirk's "Mission? Spock you're talking about the lives of every...".) Just some weird time travel effect that we never saw again. Maybe.

By Derf on Wednesday, January 08, 2003 - 09:26 am:

Who knows what lurks in the minds of time-travelers? ... only "The Camera" knows ...

By Sven of Nine on Wednesday, January 08, 2003 - 04:39 pm:

This reminds me of something I saw during the one and only time I saw "The Terminator" all the way through, in a TV broadcast. Here in Scotland we had an opt-out system where we had some other programming on, and the film was shown later. Suddenly, as the film began, we had a two-second blip where we saw Sarah Connor speaking to someone on the telephone, just before the opening credits, and I thought - is this part of the film, or was there a slip of a switch during the opt-out?

By ScottN on Friday, January 10, 2003 - 08:58 pm:

Is it me, or does the BoP seem to change size? It looks fairly small on Vulcan and in GGP, but when it's hovering over the whaling ship, it seems much larger. Of course, to hold two whales, it actually needs to be that larger size.

By Matthew Patterson (Mpatterson) on Friday, January 10, 2003 - 11:17 pm:

I once heard that time travel sequence described as looking like "very bad Russian science fiction."

By Adam Bomb on Wednesday, January 15, 2003 - 02:40 pm:

California is a state that uses two license plates, front and back. So how come Gillian's aging Chevy pickup only has the rear plate? (Maybe she went with Kirk and company to duck back tickets.) Also, when she leaves the Cetacean Institute for the last time, she starts the engine so hard that she makes the drive belt(s) squeal. (That was a nice touch; it showed just how upset she was.)
I also don't think she wore her seat belt at all while driving. (Neither did Kirk or Spock, while riding.)

By ScottN on Wednesday, January 15, 2003 - 03:05 pm:

IIRC, CA's mandatory seatbelt law didn't show up until later ('88 or so).

By LUIGI NOVI on Wednesday, January 15, 2003 - 09:43 pm:

Even if it did, people simply break that law.

By constanze on Thursday, January 16, 2003 - 08:40 am:

Somehow, I would expect at least spock to belt in, because its the logical and sensible thing to do. When gillian suddenly steps on the brakes, flinging everybody forward, spock uses his strength to hold him back, but if they had travelled at a higher speed, he could have smashed his nose.

By Sven of Nine with a running joke older than Nitcentral itself on Thursday, January 16, 2003 - 12:28 pm:

Do they know what seat-belts are in the 23rd Century? Just curious.

By constanze on Thursday, January 16, 2003 - 12:57 pm:

Oh, right. But I thought in one movie they had some sort of security on the bridge - these armrests?

I assumed that spock would be familiar with the culture - he identified the century after the degree of pollution in the atmosphere (instead of listening to the next radio broadcast). (yes, it made a good joke).

By Sven of Nine, showing little restraint on Thursday, January 16, 2003 - 02:33 pm:

They had seat restraints with the Captain's chair in the first movie, and on all the Excelsior's bridge chairs in Star Trek 3. (Still, I wonder how the Excelsior crew would fare in battle with all those restraints? I can imagine the sickbay flooded with lower abdominal injuries even after coming out of TransWarp!)

By Benn on Thursday, January 16, 2003 - 02:51 pm:

The only other time Kirk and Spock had encountered a car was in "A Piece of the Action". I'm not sure how common seatbelts were in cars in the 1920s. However, as the Iotian's society was based on "The Book", I'm willing to bet they were unaware that "flivvers" should have seatbelts. I can't imagine "The Book" making a mention of seatbelts or showing a picture of a car with seatbelts. I doubt belts would be too useful to gangsters.

By Darth Sarcasm on Thursday, January 16, 2003 - 02:56 pm:

The only other time Kirk and Spock had encountered a car was in "A Piece of the Action". - Benn

While they did not ride in a car, Kirk and Spock did have an encounter with one in The City on the Edge of Forever.

By Benn on Thursday, January 16, 2003 - 03:27 pm:

True. I should have said the only other time they used a car was in "A Piece of the Action". Still, in "The City On the Edge of Forever", they never got close enough to see how those cars were operated, or any of the other intricacies of an old-styled, 20th century motor vehicles. Much less to notice if they had seatbelts and how to use them. In those days, the belts would have been strictly of the lap variety. Not over the shoulder belts. So they wouldn't be visible as the cars drove past Kirk and Spock. Neither the Captain nor his First Officer would have had first hand experience with seatbelts prior to STIV, that I know of. And I know very little, actually.

Thanks for the reminder, Darth.

By Lolar Windrunner on Thursday, January 16, 2003 - 05:01 pm:

Actually from what I understand of cars seatbelts in general didnt start being installed in cars from the factory until the 1950s and even then they were only the lap belt varient. I once had a 76 chevy pickup similar to Gillians and it only had 2 lap belts. One for the passenger and one for the driver in it.

By John A. Lang on Thursday, January 16, 2003 - 09:50 pm:

Spock & Kirk was also in a car in "Patterns of Force" with Daras.

By Benn on Thursday, January 16, 2003 - 09:56 pm:

Oh yeah. Forgot about that. But if what Lolar said is true, there may not have been seatbelts in that car either. Of course we're talking an alien race and culture, so it's possible that the Nazi staff car did have seatbelts. But since Kirk and Spock seem oblivious to them in STIV, I'd say the car didn't have belts.

By Darth Sarcasm on Friday, January 17, 2003 - 11:12 am:

There's a difference between Kirk and Spock choosing not to wear seatbelts and them being oblivious to them. How many preventable deaths occur each year because a driver/passenger didn't wear his/her seatbelt? Yet you'd be hardpressed to convince me that it was because they were oblivious to them.

So the question becomes, if Kirk and Spock were aware of the seatbelt, why didn't they wear them?

Kirk is the more easily dismissed of the two, as he strikes me as the type of person who may choose not to wear a seatbelt.

So why doesn't Spock?

First of all, is there any evidence to suggest that he isn't wearing a seatbelt? Spock (if memory serves) was sitting in the center seat wear there is no shoulder restraint, only a lap belt (being unfamiliar with the stats of Gillian's vehicle I'm not sure if a lap belt is even available in the center). Spock could have been wearing the lap belt and simply braced his upper body with his arm when Gillian braked suddenly.

But I can think of two explanations as to why Spock would choose not to wear a seatbelt...

1. He was oblivious to it. Keep in mind this Spock wasn't all there. He couldn't remember that he had exaggerated before. And he made all kinds of flubs throughout the film that the old Spock may have not (mind-melding with the whales in public, not understanding what "exact change" meant, not understanding the use of colorful metaphors, blurting out Gracie's pregnancy). So it seems possible to me that he simply was not aware of the lap belt.

2. This scene takes place after Kirk's admonition to Spock that he needed to do a better job fitting in this culture (you don't have to tell the truth all the time, you have to swear every other word). So Spock may have simply taken his cue from Kirk and Gillian and chosen not to wear the lap belt.

By ScottN on Friday, January 17, 2003 - 12:06 pm:

Spock (if memory serves) was sitting in the center seat

He was during the "I love Italian food, and so do you" scene. Which brings up my question...

When they drop Spock off in Golden Gate Park, is he still in the center seat? Does Kirk get out to let Spock out?

By Lolar Windrunner on Friday, January 17, 2003 - 07:00 pm:

Yes he does get out of the truck then gets back in. At least as far as I remember. I would have to watch it again to make sure. and Like I said earlier the 76 pickup I had only had driver and passenger belts.

By LUIGI NOVI on Saturday, January 18, 2003 - 08:48 am:

I reviewed the scene. Kirk does get out to let Spock out. It's during that shot of them both standing outside the truck that Gillian asks Spock if he'll change his mind, and Spock asks if there's something wrong with the one he has.