| By Keith Alan Morgan on Sunday, July 18, 1999 - 05:18 am: |
Well, I finally found a VCR with a slow screen speed and used it to see the animals that the computer checks against the sound. I couldn't read the names that came on under them, so maybe somebody with better equipment can check that out.
Some of the pictures were fuzzy and I'm not certain of all my identifications.
1. Bat
2. Fish
3. Sea Cucumber
4. Moth
5. Bat
6. Cow
7. Moth (I think. A different picture than #4)
8. Nautilus? (If it was they just showed the shell)
9. Armadillo
10. Fish (Same as #2)
11. Lion
12. Kangaroo
13. Foraminfera??? (Definately not certain. However, the picture does look like pictures I've seen of microscopic diatom like creatures.)
14. Armadillo (Same as #9)
15. Cougar or Lioness (Some kind of plain, big cat.)
16. Lion (Same as #11)
17. (Same as #13)
18. Fish (Same as #2)
19. Crab
20. Chameleon
21. (Same as #13)
22. Crab (Same as #19)
23. Sea Cucumber (Same as #3)
24. Moth? (Same as #7)
25. Whale?
26. Moth (Same as #4)
27. (Same as #13)
28. Horseshoe Crab
29. Crab (Same as #19)
30. Alligators? (Not certain)
31. Chameleon (Same as #20)
32. Unknown (May be next picture forming)
33. Fish (Same as #2)
34. Whale? (Same as #25)
35. Sea Cucumber (Same as #3)
36. Frog
37. Crab (Same as #19)
38. Horseshoe Crab (Same as #28)
39. (Same as #13)
40. Unknown
41. Dolphin
42. Killer Whale
43. Unknown Whale
44. Unknown Whale 2
45. Sperm Whale
46. Humpback Whale
| By David Hensley on Sunday, July 18, 1999 - 10:19 am: |
Does anyone else think that bringing one viable pair of Whales to Earth at the exact time that the probe was attacking is a really, really, unintelligent (not "stup�d") idea?
Why not bring them to, say, a few years after they became extinct, but also after humans stopped treating the Earth like a garbage can. Then, we could have a whole family of (highly inbred) whales to respond, not just two!
And for those who say, "Wouldn't someone notice the whales?" Well, I point you to the Coelecanth fish. We thought it was extinct for a long time, until a few specimens were found off the coast of Africa in the 1980s (they were thought to have died out in 1938 - I can't quite remember).
| By Keith Alan Morgan on Sunday, July 18, 1999 - 09:49 pm: |
They thought the Coelocanth went extinct 70 million years ago, and I believe it was rediscovered in 1938.
Coelocanths are smaller than whales, not to mention they are deep water fish. Whales are big and need to surface to breathe.
Also if they had dropped the whales off early, then there would have been no reason for them to go back in time and get the whales to save the Earth. They only went back in time because there were no whales to answer the probe.
| By David Hensley on Tuesday, July 20, 1999 - 10:48 am: |
Keith -
Thank you for correcting me on the Coelocanth info. What I meant to convey was that the "reappearance" of the whales in, say, 2190 would have been attributed to a colony that was not known of before.
However, I beleive your arguments about the crew's not needing no to go back in time is flawed - they would have needed to go back in time to get the whales from 1986, let's say they put them back in 2190. That means when they returned to 1986, they would find a slightly different timeline in which none of this business with this probe had even started, and only the crew would know about it. (Mind you, that is Star Trek temporal physics.)
But I see what you are saying - if there were whales by 2286, what's the impetus to travel back in time? It's the old "killing your grandfather" paradox. If I traveled to 1927 to kill my grandpa as a baby, I would never exist. Thus, I would't be able to travel to 1927 to kill him, so he would raise my mother and I'd be around again to go back and kill him, ad infinitum.
Ugh.
| By Matthew Patterson (Mpatterson) on Tuesday, July 20, 1999 - 12:26 pm: |
I think the VOyage Home time travel is he only sort of time travel that makes any sense (at least, within the rules of the Star Trek universe. In the real universe, it would never work more on that later.) I can find no paradoxes whatsoever! Everything was wrapped up nicely.
Why is it not possible? Well, consider this. They're going around the sun at warp 8 or so. Warp 8 is several thousand times the speed of light. Thy should be past the sun and most of the way to Pluto by the time they finally time travel. They can't get any reasonable boost from gravity, since gravity cannot travel faster than light. What's the difference between going 800x lightspeed and 801x lightspeed? It seems that if you can time travel just by going real fast, all you have to do is punch the warp engines to the max and wait till you get to the 20th century.
| By ScottN on Tuesday, July 20, 1999 - 12:29 pm: |
If I recall from "Tomorrow is Yesterday", which is the basis for the temporal mechanics here, the time travel is a result of the warp field suddenly breaking away from a strong gravitational field. Hence the need to slingshot around the sun.
I still don't understand why they needed the slingshot effect to get back to 2286. If they simply traveled at a high enough sublight speed, Einstein would take care of them. Of course, then the whole bit about Spock guessing would go away...
| By Matthew Patterson (Mpatterson) on Tuesday, July 20, 1999 - 12:59 pm: |
Unfortunately, they'd never be able to travel at a fast enough sublight velocity. It is mathematically provable that if you go faster than light in realspace, you will travel back in time. However, it is impossible to do so. They crew would be flattened into a thin organic paste on the bulkhead once the inertial dampeners gave out. Not to mention that before they traveled back in time, time would have slowed down for them, so that hundreds or thousands of years would have passed for the rest of the universe. So by the time that they travelled backwards, they'd have to make up for all the lost time, and even assuming that they could do this, they'd probably starve or die of dehydration.
| By ScottN on Tuesday, July 20, 1999 - 01:47 pm: |
No, no, no. They use the slingshot effect at WARP to go back to 1986. They *SHOULD* use relativistic time dilation to go forward to 2286. They remain sublight in realspace to basically slow their clock down and go forward 300 years in a few minutes... Since they remain sublight in realspace, they don't need the slingshot manuver, and the dampers don't fail (except for that lousy Klingon manufacturing <g>). If anyone wants to calculate it...
trel = t0(1-(v2/c2)1/2
Calculate v, given that trel is 1 minute and t0 is 300 years. The calculation is left as an excercise for the reader.
| By ScottN on Tuesday, July 20, 1999 - 01:48 pm: |
oops... should be another closing parentesis before the 1/2 in that last equation!
| By Matthew Patterson (Mpatterson) on Tuesday, July 20, 1999 - 01:51 pm: |
That might work, except you can only push an impulse drive so far. They are constructed specifically to prevent time dilation. This is why full impluse is only 1/4 the speed of light. I doubt you could accelerate to more that 1/2 lightspeed using an old Klingon ship. Actually, I'd be surprised if they could push the engines to full impulse after all they did.
| By Mike Deeds on Wednesday, July 21, 1999 - 09:21 am: |
Since the crew arrives right after Kirk's message to Starfleet, is it reasonable to assume that they arrived a little bit BEFORE they originally departed? So, I guess Spock's calculations were a little bit off.
| By KAM on Wednesday, July 21, 1999 - 09:28 am: |
Well, Spock was guessing.
Think you could do any better, Mr. Deeds? ;-)
Good thing they didn't crash into themselves on the way back. ;-)
| By David Hensley on Thursday, July 22, 1999 - 10:28 am: |
Matthew Patterson wrote on July 20 1999:
I think the VOyage Home time travel is he only sort of time travel that makes any sense (at least, within the rules of the Star Trek universe. In the real universe, it would never work more on that later.) I can find no paradoxes whatsoever! Everything was wrapped up nicely.
Um, I have to disagree. Problems with the time travel:
1.) Woman with kidney problem, miraculuously healed.
2.) Gillian Taylor not around to produce offspring, maybe one of them would have been the ancestor of a competent Kathryn Janeway. ("Setting a timed bomb in the Caretaker's array, using it to go home, and keeping it out of the Kazon's hands - good idea! Mark, I'm comin' home!")
3.) Whaling ship crew & Waste Disposal sees a humongous "alien" ship with people walking "out of nowhere."
4.) Transparent Aluminimuminum! Need I say more?
5.) Neck-Pinched Punk dude.
6.) Chekov's "interview" with the military.
And many, many more.
Actually, with any time travel, one will affect countless things. If we look at the "butterfly" phenomenon (a butterfly flapping its wings in, say, Texas may produce a subtle chain reaction that leads to a monsoon in Myanmar). So, every movement one makes in the past could have tremendous effects!
| By Matthew Patterson (Mpatterson) on Thursday, July 22, 1999 - 12:09 pm: |
1) You said it yourself. "Miracle." It does sometimes happen. That's how they'd explain it.
2) Obviously not. I'm a fan of the "history is immutable" theory. You can't change history because history was meant to occur with you in it.
3) Stress-filled hallucinations. Explained like all the other UFO sightings.
4) That guy invented it in the first place! It doesn't matter how he got the idea� (actually, an early draft of the script had the question "Who invented transparent aluminum" in Spock's battery of tests and the answer being that guy's name.)
5) He fell asleep on the bus.
6) Crazy Russian on drugs.
See? Every single one of these things can be explained in a twentieth-century manner without causing major changes to the timeline. At least there are no time paradoxes in the thing. (Although I find it amazing that Kirk expected to hide the ship in Golden Gate Park and have nobody notice the giant depressions in the ground.)
| By David Hensley on Thursday, July 22, 1999 - 08:49 pm: |
Matthew -
OK, so you got me on most of them, but I stand FIRM in my beleif that the transparent aluminum thing, if Dr. Nichols did "invent" it, is very very much a paradox. Scotty learns about TransAlum as a wee lad in Starfleet Academy. If Scotty gave Nichols the plan for TransAlum, then Scotty introduced the plan for TransAlum in the 1980s so he could "learn it" in the 2200s. So that means that no one actually "created" the idea of TransAlum without having someone else already show it to them. That is logically impossible! The Scotty-Nichols loop has no beginning!
But to paraphrase Isaac Asimov, time travel must be impossible - if it wasn't, there would be people from all kinds of time frames walking around.
| By Keith Alan Morgan on Friday, July 23, 1999 - 02:18 am: |
I believe Dr. Nichols said it would take years just to understand the formula. In the time Nichols spends trying to understand how to make the stuff the real inventor could actually invent transparent aluminum first. Since Nichols would have been working to produce the TransAlum, he would be in the best position to mass market TransAlum when the real person invented it and history may accidentally record Nichols as the inventor, especially since the formula would have existed in his computer before the other guy really invented it.
| By Keith Alan Morgan on Saturday, July 24, 1999 - 08:43 am: |
About the invention of Transparent Aluminum (I can't believe I forgot this), but nature has had Transparent Aluminum for millennia.
Corundum (also known as the gemstones Ruby & Sapphire) is an Aluminum Oxide, 9 on the Mohs scale and translucent.
Almandine Garnet is an Iron Aluminum Silicate. Grossular Garnet, Hessonite & Rosolite are Calcium Aluminum Silicates. Pyrope Garnet & Rhodolite are Magnesium Aluminum Silicates. Spessartine Garnet is a Manganese Aluminum Silicate. Garnets are 6.5 - 7.5 on the Mohs scale.
Beryls (Aquamarines, Emeralds, etc.) & Chrysoberyls (Alexandrite) are Beryllium Aluminum Silicates, 7.5 -8 hardness.
Topaz is an Aluminum Flurorohydroxysilicate (say that 3 times fast) and 8 on the Mohs scale.
(I know there are others, but this was all that were listed in some articles I wrote for my rock club newsletter on birthstones.)
So technically it could be argued that nature is the real inventor of Transparent Aluminum. ;-)
| By Matt Pesti on Saturday, July 24, 1999 - 09:10 pm: |
Could a pod of whales elude detection for hundreds of years. See "in the wake of sea serphants"(Book). Out side the sea merchant lanes, not much human activity takes place.
| By Matthew Patterson (Mpatterson) on Saturday, July 24, 1999 - 09:43 pm: |
Possibly, yes. But for three hundred years? I believe that if there were still any left in the 23rd century, surely they would know, what with all their fancy scanners and whatnot. Heck, we found the Titanic in the backward 1980s! (It is way too easy to solve problems in the Trek universe. This is why we have nits. The characters never use the technology right!)
| By David Hensley on Sunday, July 25, 1999 - 09:54 am: |
The whales wouldn't need to avoid the scanners! They would pop up one day, and then the scientists would say "Yay! The whales aren't extinct - I guess we missed those guys!" and everyone goes on their happy little way with no probes blasting our atmosphere and ocean in 2286.
| By Mark Bowman on Thursday, July 29, 1999 - 09:21 am: |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Jenny Veitch on Wednesday, December 9, 1998 - 04:27 pm:
Why does Scott think that computer keyboards are old fashioned? He uses a console every day.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
He probaly ment the old QWERTY type.
Speaking of which, he sure learned how to use
it fast. He even knew how to use an app that was
completly foreign to him (maybe he uses
a classic computer emulator on the Enterprise
now and then?)
| By cableface on Saturday, August 28, 1999 - 05:21 pm: |
As far as Gillian's disappearance goes, the creators could have had some line saying that records show that she disappeared without trace.
But maybe that would have just started another completely different discussion.
At the end, when the crew is debating which ship they are getting, Sulu mentions the Excelsior and although Scott says it's a bucket of bolts, they all act as if it's a possibility.What happened to Captain Stiles?Star Trek 3 occured roughly three months before Kirk is given command back.So where did he go?He didn't really seem close to retirement and he can't have been on the Excelsior for long as it was only a prototype.
Besides, I thought Stiles was cool.
| By Chris Thomas on Sunday, August 29, 1999 - 08:51 am: |
If Gillian's disappearance doesn't matter, then why is Spock so concerned in Tomorrow Is Yesterday to put those people back in the correct place in time? Shouldn't they at least have done some checking first that Gillian didn't play a pivotal role in history?
| By Brian Lombard on Tuesday, September 28, 1999 - 02:15 pm: |
In Gillian's own words, "I've got no one here."
| By Chris Thomas on Wednesday, September 29, 1999 - 04:30 am: |
I thought she just meant romantically. Besides, she might have no one at that point in time but whose to say she wouldn't meet the man of her dreams in 10 years' time and they would bear children who may play an essential role in the future - Kirk's history?
| By ScottN on Friday, December 03, 1999 - 01:40 am: |
Just caught the rerun on SciFi tonite.
Continuity error: Right after the power comes back on in Starfleet Command, they cut to a shot of the whales. It's sunny. They cut to the sinking BoP. It's raining. They cut back to the whales. It's sunny. They cut back to the BoP. It's now sunny.
Another nit. The BoP crossed over SF Bay, and went under the Golden Gate Bridge. It crossed East to West, that is, when it went under the bridge, it exited the bay and went into the Pacific Ocean. Rationale: Sarek's comment in Starfleet Command, "There!", and then we see the tail of the BoP. Therefore, it went East to West.
However, at the end, we see the whales heading out to the Pacific, going under the Golden Gate Bridge. But they were already in the Pacific because the BoP was there when they released the whales.
| By Benn Allen on Friday, December 03, 1999 - 09:29 am: |
In "A Piece of the Action" Kirk and crew are worried about McCoy leaving his communicator with
the Iotians. In "Voyage Home" Chekov left behind a
Klingon phaser and communicator on the nuclear
carrier Enterprise. I realize the F.B.I. had them,
but still... Shouldn't this concern the crew also?
And why the rush to get "back to the future"? (I
couldn't resist.) They have three hundred years to
get the whales and meet the Probe. It's not like
the Earth was in danger (yet).
| By Chris Thomas on Friday, December 17, 1999 - 10:50 pm: |
How can the BoP pick up whale song in space when the whales don't have communication devices?
| By Chris Thomas on Saturday, December 18, 1999 - 12:57 am: |
At the start, Kirk says they've had a three-month exile on Vulcan - interestingly, they are all wearing the same clothes as when they arrived there (yes, yes, they could have replicated new clothes or they'd since washed them and put the clothes on fresh).
I wondered about Saavik staying on Vulcan given she is in Starfleet but guessed she must have headed to Vulcan's Starfleet HQ. (How come she's a lieutenant if she's still at the Academy in STII?)
I wonder why it was so important for the probe to communicate with the whales?
| By Chris Thomas on Saturday, December 18, 1999 - 07:02 pm: |
I watched this on video recently and at the start was a big recap of the events of Star Trek II and III and I was wondering if this was presented before the film when it was shown in cinemas or was just for the video release?
Also, the title of the film came up with "THE VOYAGE HOME" in huge letters on the screen with "Star Trek IV" written very small underneath it. So is the the title really The Voyage Home: Star Trek IV ?
| By Nick Angeloni (Nangeloni) on Sunday, December 19, 1999 - 12:57 am: |
That isn't on my copy. Is it on the DVD?
| By Chris Thomas on Sunday, December 19, 1999 - 01:23 am: |
No, this was a video I rented from my local library in Australia, seemed to be reasonably old - what isn't on yours, the recap of the previous two movies or the way the title is written?
| By Nick Angeloni (Nangeloni) on Sunday, December 19, 1999 - 10:15 pm: |
Both. Maybe it was just released in Australia, which is entirely possible. Both those things were not on the original tape released back in '87 either (there was a preview of ST:TNG).
| By Chris Thomas on Sunday, December 19, 1999 - 10:58 pm: |
Yes, there was a preview of NextGen on this tape as well. The recap went for a few minutes, there was a pause and the movie started like it does in the cinema with "A ----- Production" and all the credits before the titles came up.
| By Anonymous on Sunday, January 30, 2000 - 01:49 pm: |
Sorry folks...Saavik had no reason to be in this
story....She already told Kirk how bravely David died in STIII after Kirk asks "What happened?"
| By Chris Thomas on Friday, February 11, 2000 - 09:21 pm: |
Is the actress that plays Gillian the same one that is the mother in that schmalzy Seventh Heaven series?
| By Chris Thomas on Friday, February 11, 2000 - 09:21 pm: |
Is the actress that plays Gillian the same one that is the mother in that schmalzy Seventh Heaven series?
| By Charles Cabe (Ccabe) on Saturday, February 12, 2000 - 04:13 pm: |
According to www.imdb.com they are the same actress.
| By ScottN on Monday, February 14, 2000 - 02:18 am: |
Yep, and the father on that schmalzy Seventh Heaven series was Captain Decker in ST:TMP.
| By John A. Lang on Friday, February 25, 2000 - 02:41 am: |
How come when Spock says "Live long & prosper"
to Saavik he does not give the Vulcan hand
salute like he does with his father near the end of the movie?
| By Gul Gurell on Thursday, March 02, 2000 - 04:59 pm: |
I think we all are missing the biggest nit of all. A rouge element of starfleet officers who stole a starfleet vessel, and in the process disabled a Excellisor Class vessel, and assaulted two starfleet security personell are on Vulcan a Federation Planet. Even with Sarek the Vulcan ambassidor as a emisary to starfleet command the local authorities would be forced to arrest Kirk and company. Their is no legal way to get around that issue. Also how did the big of prey get to Vulcan intact. It has suffered battle damage from two torpedos, and their wasn't enough time to fix it. So did a cloaked BoP just appear near Vulcan, and no one noticed!!! I know the Federation homeworld don't have a defence network, only welcome signs.
| By Will Rogers on Friday, March 03, 2000 - 01:21 am: |
No, Gul, The Biggest Nit is that they parked their Bird of Prey about 500 miles South Of Golden Gate Park, In Will Rogers St. Park. I am sure Vulcan's are logical enough to keep any Extradition proceedings in comittee indefinately.
| By Harry Houdidn't on Friday, March 03, 2000 - 01:56 am: |
A rouge element of starfleet officers ?
Are they all red or something?
| By John A. Lang on Friday, March 03, 2000 - 09:54 am: |
Bigger nits than that....
If the Federation knew where Kirk & Co. was...
why not send a starship to Vulcan & get them?
ALSO...
Kruge's voice is missing from the replay of the
destruction of the Enterprise.
(No! Get out! Get out of there!)
LAST, but not least....
In his book, Phil asked where the Klingons got the
playback of the destruction of the Enterprise...
I think I have the answer....
They went to "Blockbuster" and rented "Star Trek III- The Search for Spock" on VHS.
(Snicker, snicker)
| By Mark Swinton on Friday, March 03, 2000 - 09:25 pm: |
Either that or they had a word with Leonard Nimoy:
Nimoy: Hi guys, what can I do for you?
Klingon Ambassador: You were the director of Star Trek III, were you not?
Nimoy: Yes...
Klingon Ambassador: You will hand over all the prints or die, human p'taH!
| By Richard Davies on Sunday, April 02, 2000 - 04:40 pm: |
How does Scott & McCoy pay for the transparent Aluminium? Or do they do a deal to have a batch need in exchange for the formula, same goes for Sulu hiring the helicopter. Also why does Chekov keep saying "Wessels" when Russian has no "W" sound but does have a "V" sound, after effects of the slingshot back in time?
| By ScottN on Sunday, April 02, 2000 - 05:51 pm: |
Scotty&McCoy buy the sheet of PlexiGlass (not T.A.) with the formula for Transparent Aluminum.
| By KAM on Monday, April 03, 2000 - 12:19 am: |
Maybe by the 23rd century a W sound has been added to the Russian language? Or maybe there is no more Russian language, just a Russian accent? ;-)
| By Spockania on Monday, April 03, 2000 - 04:49 am: |
Obviously the time travel had a nasty effect on poor Chekov. He probably needed medical attention even before he fell off the Enterprise.
| By Plantman on Sunday, April 09, 2000 - 03:06 pm: |
>> When Scotty first gives the formula to Dr. Nichols, Nichols says that it would take years just figure out the dynamics of the matrix. Then how did they get a piece of transparent aluminum from him by the end of the movie?
>> Why do they need TRANSPARENT aluminum anyway? Is it absolutely necessary that they be able to see the whales?
>> Why doesn't Uhura ask the officer where Naval Base is? She doesn't have a Russian Accent.
>> While flying the helicopter, Sulu reaches for a switch and seems surprised that he turned on the wipers. What did he want to turn on?
>> After finding out that there are humpback whales at the Cetacean Institute, Kirk and Spock try to board a bus. They get kicked off and seemed puzzled by the term "exact change". Then the scene changes to Bones, Scotty, and Sulu. Then we come back to Kirk and Spock on a bus. How did they get "exact change?"
>> Is Spock being sarcastic when he says "Ah! The Giants!"? If he is, then isn't that a little out of character for the emotionally challenged Spock who doesn't even understand how to exaggerate?
| By Charles Cabe (Ccabe) on Sunday, April 09, 2000 - 03:57 pm: |
1. They used 6" plexiglass. (It is har to tell how thick it is, but it is much more than an inch.)
2. No.
3. They probably forgot about the Cold War that was going on then.
| By ghhg on Tuesday, June 13, 2000 - 12:49 pm: |
4. The cigarette lighter.
5. they sold their bodies for a quarter.
6. No.
| By G'var on Tuesday, June 13, 2000 - 09:42 pm: |
Actually:
5: according to the book Kirk sold his glasses so that Mccoy could buy them for him to give to him. (I hate temporal mechanics.)
6: That is how they have been referred to in book reviews.
| By Keith Alan Morgan (Kmorgan) on Wednesday, June 14, 2000 - 12:30 am: |
I seem to remember the selling his glasses scene from the movie. (Or at least the video tape.)
| By ScottN on Wednesday, June 14, 2000 - 10:09 am: |
Yes he did, for $100, and Kirk handed out the cash to all parties. The original question 5 was essentially "how did they get exact change after being kicked off the bus?"
| By Rene on Wednesday, June 14, 2000 - 12:41 pm: |
Kirk : "Anyone have change for a 100?"
Civilian : "I'll give you 8 quarters for it."
Kirk : "That's mighty generous of you."
| By Rene on Wednesday, June 14, 2000 - 12:41 pm: |
Kirk : "Anyone have change for a 100?"
Civilian : "I'll give you 8 quarters for it."
Kirk : "That's mighty generous of you."
| By Rene on Wednesday, June 14, 2000 - 12:43 pm: |
Kirk : "Anyone have change for a 100?"
Civilian : "I'll give you 8 quarters for it."
Kirk : "That's mighty generous of you."
| By Rene on Wednesday, June 14, 2000 - 01:52 pm: |
AH! C-r-a-p. Sorry for the triple post. I kept getting an error message. I didn't think the post was going through
| By Spockania on Wednesday, June 14, 2000 - 02:30 pm: |
Actually, Kirk split the money among the three groups. So presumably he asked if anyone had change for $32 dollars. At which point someone gave him eight quarters, explaining why he and Spock had to walk back from the institute.
| By Rene on Wednesday, June 14, 2000 - 09:22 pm: |
Sorry. It's been months since I last saw the movie. :) Now I remember him splitting the money between them.
| By John A. Lang on Saturday, July 22, 2000 - 02:00 am: |
MISSED OPPORTUNTY.....
Our friends land in the San Fran area in 1986...
OK..how about making a quick fly-over to India
and have the Indian authorities execute Khan Noonian Singh before he rises to power...that way, the events from "Space Seed" & "Star Trek II" never happen!
| By Chris Thomas on Saturday, July 22, 2000 - 04:34 am: |
Couldn't that possibly create an even worse timeline?
| By John A. Lang on Saturday, July 22, 2000 - 11:15 am: |
How so? Explain.
Look at "The City on the Edge of Forever"....
McCoy entered the past and prevented Edith Keeler from dying...millions die who weren't supposed to. Kirk & Spock go back & stop him from preventing her death, time resumes its shape.
Think of what would happen if Kirk stopped Khan from rising to power...wouldn't that cause a similar effect?
| By TomM on Saturday, July 22, 2000 - 01:48 pm: |
Yes, but then the future would evolve differently, and the Federation would not be the same, if it existed at all. It is the same situation: changing the past for good or evil destroys the present. That's why Dulmer and Lucsly and their organization have a temporal Prime Directive similar to Starfleet's
| By Chris Thomas on Saturday, July 22, 2000 - 09:04 pm: |
Exactly - there could be a whole chain of events following Khan's death in 1986 which could lead to the Romulans over-running the Alpha Quadrant or the Dominion winning the war. There are millions of implications and knock-on effects but doing something so major in the past.
| By Mike Deeds on Monday, July 24, 2000 - 06:49 am: |
John Lang, re: the "MISSED OPPORTUNTY" on killing Khan "before he rises to power", I think major problems would result if the events in 'Space Seed' and 'The Wrath of Khan' don't happen. Think about it. TWOK leads directly to 'The Search For Spock' which leads to the crew being on Vulcan at the start of 'The Voyage Home'! Without the events of Part II & III, would the crew even be in the position to save the Earth?
Onto a different subject: Does anyone think if the original episode 'Space Seed' had said Khan rose to power in the 1980s instead of the 1990s that 'The Voyage Home' would have mentioned Khan or ignored it like Voyager did in 'Future's End'? I hate to say it but I think they would ALSO have ignored it. Now, I am no big fan of Voyager so don't think I say that as a defense of it. My reasoning is this: The movies changed the appearance of the Klingons from the original series and never bothered to even attempt an explanation. I was surprised that the year 1996 was even mentioned in 'The Wrath of Khan'. After all, it was only 14 years in the future when the movie was first out.
| By John Lang on Monday, July 24, 2000 - 11:25 am: |
I think it would've gone like this if Kirk prevented Khan's ascension to power in STIV.
Space Seed would've never happened. Period.
McGivers would be married to someone else...maybe.
STII would still have "Project Genesis"..but no Khan attack, no death of Spock. The Enterprise would assist Reliant in looking for a dead planet.
STIII would be the the same, sans the destruction of the Enterprise. The mission would consist of escorting the Grissom to the Genesis planet to protect it from enemy attack (which Starfleet should have done with another ship, by the way)
No death of David either
I think the events from STIV would remain unchanged, with the exception of the use of the Bird of Prey by our heroes. They could've received the Enterprise-A and the end of STIII.
Kirk would still be Admiral.
So it was a missed opportunity indeed...at least from Kirk's perspective...it certainly would've made his life better anyway.
However in defense of those who disagree, it would've made STII, STIII & STIV a lot more boring if Khan wasn't there...so in short...the "missed opportunity" was a hypothetical (if not rhetorical) theory and it was fun thinking about the alternate possibilities to the movies.
Thanks for your feedback.
| By ScottN on Monday, July 24, 2000 - 10:53 pm: |
Why would the original Enterprise be destroyed in this timeline? The Enterprise was defeated by the BOP because it was so damaged from the battle with the Reliant and was running on jury rigged systems with a crew of 7. Had the battle with Khan not happened, the Enterprise would not have been damaged, and could easily have withstood an attack from the BOP (notice how small it is). Therefore, they don't need to have the ENT-A at the end of STIII.
In addition, the Enterprise would be at normal station (of course, it would be in sector 001 - "The Only Ship In The Quadrant™"), and would have been disabled by the probe, and therefore unable to go back to fetch the whales.
Ergo, if they preemptively defeat Khan in the 1980s, they destroy Earth in the late 2200s.
So it was a missed opportunity indeed...at least from Kirk's perspective...it certainly would've made his life better anyway.
I disagree. He was very unhappy as an Admiral.
| By John A. Lang on Tuesday, July 25, 2000 - 01:13 am: |
Point well taken. Also I have to agree he wasn't happy being Admiral. Let's move on now with our regularly scheduled nitpicking.
| By Adam Bomb on Friday, July 28, 2000 - 09:54 pm: |
Look at the Spock makeup in Star Trek IV-probably the closest to the Spock makeup in the TV series.(The Spock Walk scene in ST-TMP is pretty close too.) There are different thicknesses, lengths, and angles on the eyebrows in each film (in Star Trek VI all the above are in one film.) Also, the ears change size depending on the film.
| By John A. Lang on Saturday, July 29, 2000 - 07:28 pm: |
In a tribute to the Original Series where they showed stills from upcoming episodes and such, Nimoy decided to include scenes from the movie during the closing credits....
Y'know what would've been REAL FUN?
Showing Vina the Orion Slave dancer at the very end. THAT would've been a hoot!
| By John A. Lang on Saturday, July 29, 2000 - 07:31 pm: |
Another nit....
According to the Star Trek Encyclopedia the Saratoga's number is NCC-1937.
So why in the close ups it read NCC-1864....the number of the USS Reliant?
Gaa! Khan's back from the dead & he brought the Reliant with him!!!!!
| By John A. Lang on Monday, July 31, 2000 - 01:39 pm: |
What is wrong with Scotty's panel next to the makeshift aquarium?
When they're warping back to their time, the panel in front of Scotty twists and turns like it's not even bolted down or something.
Whatever was wrong with it, it's not very sturdy.
| By G'var on Monday, July 31, 2000 - 09:15 pm: |
Maybe whats wrong with the panel is that its jury-rigged into place. Maybe it was an essential panel that had to be accessed every so often and ios normally located where the whales would be riding. Not to mention that their flinging a rentawreck thorughout the spacetime continuum after warrenty is up.
| By Plantman on Monday, August 07, 2000 - 10:13 am: |
MORE NITS:
>> When Gillian and Kirk drop Spock off in the park, the instant Gillian's truck is turned around, he gets beamed aboard.
1. What if she looked through the rearview mirror?
2. Who beamed him aboard? Kirk's with Gillian. Scotty, McCoy, and Sulu are at plexicorp. And Chekov and Uhura are still looking for nuclear wessels.
>> Why do they have to decloak to beam up the whales? They don't decloak when they beam up people throughout the rest of the movie.
>> Why did Saavik stay on Vulcan?
>> Isn't it convienient that when the ship loses power at the end that they happen to land right in San Francisco Bay? What if they happened to land right in San Francisco? Then Kirk would really have some explaining to do.
>> Why does the ship lose power when the dillithium crystals break down? I thought the dillithium crystals were a component in the warp core. Shouldn't there be a separate power source to power the cloaking device and transporters?
>> Why wasn't there a guard at the door at Chekov's interrogation?
>> Where did Scotty learn how to type?
>> Why is McCoy helping to build a whale tank? "Dammit Jim I'm a doctor not a whale tank designer!"
>> When the Bird of Prey lands in the park it makes a rather large indentation on the ground. What is this an indentation of? The landing gear? It looks like a big square thing. I just don't know what that is? It doesn't look like the landing gear that they used on Vulcan.
| By Meg on Monday, August 07, 2000 - 11:11 am: |
the backstory to why Saavik stayed on Vulcan was that she was pregnant with Spock's child.
| By Wannabe Trek Writer on Monday, August 07, 2000 - 12:13 pm: |
Why do they decloak to beam the whales?
"It's not just the whales... it's the water." Scotty had never beamed anything that large before, so it would only be natural that they'd conserve as much of it as they could. Also, they may have intended to scare the bejesus out of the whalers, to prevent them from killing again.
Why does the ship lose power when the crystals die down?
This is a Klingon ship, not a Starfleet ship. It's possible that on a Klingon ship, dilithium powers everything.
Where did Scotty learn how to type?
He learned as he went along. When he starts out, he hits the keys one... finger... at... a... time... but then he progressively gets faster. He's an engineer, hitting buttons is his life.
What is the indentation on the ground?
I always assumed it was one of the landing struts. I haven't seen the film in a while, but I also don't remember it being square. I remember it resembling a landing strut, wide on one end, narrower on the other.
| By Charles Cabe (Ccabe) on Monday, August 07, 2000 - 12:19 pm: |
McCoy was assigned to the whale tank because he is the closest thing they have to a marine biologist they have at that point.
| By Derf on Tuesday, August 08, 2000 - 06:30 am: |
When they go back in time and come back, each time a comment is made that the braking thrusters have fired. From this statement, is it reasonable to assume that this is how all starships "drop out of warp"? Or is it just the way to drop out of "timewarp"?
| By Derf on Tuesday, August 08, 2000 - 06:35 am: |
To clarify, McCoy states just before going back in time "Slingshot around the sun, pick up enough speed and you're in timewarp, if you don't you fry."
| By Plantman on Tuesday, August 08, 2000 - 09:31 am: |
WTW:
I didn't mean a literal square. I meant square shaped as opposed to a rounded shape. It actually looks like a Bird of Prey if you tried to make a drawing of one using only right angles and straight lines. And there's only one. If it's a landing strut, it would be sticking out of the middle of the ship. That's not how it looked when they landed on Vulcan.
Ccabe:
How would being a marine biologist help with building a whale tank?
| By John A. Lang on Saturday, August 19, 2000 - 12:25 am: |
I'd like to know where the Klingon Ambassador got his info on the Genesis Torpedo Detonation...he said, "It was test detonated by the admiral himself" WRONG!!!! It was detonated by Khan!
| By Klingon Ambassador on Saturday, August 19, 2000 - 05:12 am: |
Oh, well that's different then.
Sorry to waste your time.
All charges are dropped.
| By Mirror Worf on Saturday, August 19, 2000 - 08:00 am: |
I always wondered what happened to Maltz at the end of Star Trek three. Did he kill himself or did the Vulcan send him back to the Empire, or was kept imprisoned.
| By Empok Nor on Saturday, August 19, 2000 - 07:27 pm: |
He became Maltz liquor.
| By Someone Else on Saturday, August 19, 2000 - 09:59 pm: |
According to the Klingon Dictionary, he helped the Federation translators complete the first English/Klingon lexicon.
| By JamesB on Sunday, August 20, 2000 - 04:37 pm: |
I'm pretty sure that in the novelisation, he committed suicide.
| By Wannabe Trek Writer on Sunday, August 20, 2000 - 09:27 pm: |
John Lang-
The Klingon Ambassador was implying that there was more to the Federation's development of the Genesis torpedo than Starfleet led on. He also said that the Genesis Planet was to be a launching point for an invasion into Klingon territory (which was also inaccurate).
In politics, you'll find there are lots of people who manipulate, distort, and misinterpret the facts to serve their needs.
| By John A. Lang on Monday, August 21, 2000 - 12:07 am: |
Oh...kinda like a certain Russian nuclear submarine that sunk in the Artic that supposedly had no nuclear missiles on board.....(yeah, right!)
I see your point...the Klingon Amassador was really trying to get revenge on Kirk for all the Klingons he's killed & defeated o'er the years.
| By Richard Davies on Saturday, October 07, 2000 - 03:57 pm: |
Where do Rand & Chappel appear is this film? Did they just get a blink & miss it cameo in the court scenes? I guess the Klingon's case against Kirk was annulled as part of the settlement in ST6.
| By John A. Lang on Saturday, October 07, 2000 - 05:32 pm: |
Rand is the one with the "Shirley Temple" curls at Starfleet Command...Chapel is the one who says during the storm "We need that power for the medical facilities" (or something like that)
Rand is seen again at the courtroom scene
| By Derf on Friday, October 27, 2000 - 05:31 pm: |
(Scotty seemed to find the keyboard "quaint", yet his fingers whipped into action)
("Quaint" doesn't mean he won't know how to use it)
What I find harder to understand is how instantly McCoy recognizes a medical procedure he's never witnessed before. "Funduscopic Examinations" were a very old and barbaric pratice to him. And wasn't it convenient for him to have a kidney-fixing pill in his "medical bag"?
| By Someone Else on Friday, October 27, 2000 - 09:29 pm: |
I believe the novel mentions the pill as a "tissue regenerator", so he could concievably be carrying it around for emergencies.
And maybe McCoy was a great fan of medical history...
| By Rene on Friday, October 27, 2000 - 09:30 pm: |
McCoy always seem to have what he needs in his bag,
| By Chris Thomas on Saturday, October 28, 2000 - 09:05 am: |
Maybe he was a friend of Felix the Cat?
| By Derf on Saturday, October 28, 2000 - 06:18 pm: |
"Emergency Kidney Regenerations?" Why not carry around every other organ-regeneration pill?
McCoy: What's wrong with you?
Patient: Blood donation.
McCoy: Blood Donation?! My god ... what is this, the Dark Ages? (grubbing in his bag) Here, you swallow this, and if you have any problems, just call me.
Patient: The doctor gave me a pill, and I grew new blood cells!
Physician #1: New blood cells?!
Physician #2: New blood cells!!
| By Derf on Friday, February 02, 2001 - 11:35 pm: |
Why would a Klingon vessel require an "Explosive Override" on its cargo bay doors? Even if this was a retro-fit after Kirk & Co. took command of it, is there a reason for it? (beyond being extremely convenient to release the whales after they crash land in the water)
| By Derf on Friday, February 16, 2001 - 09:10 pm: |
Kirk: I can't believe we've come this far, only to be stopped by this! Is there no way of "re-crystallizing" Dilithium?
Scotty: Sorry, sir. We can't even do that in the 23rd century.
Spock: Admiral, there may be a 20th century possibility.
Kirk: Explain.
Spock: If memory serves, there was a dubious flirtation with nuclear fission reactors, resulting in toxic side affects. By the beginning of the Fusion Era, these reactors had been replaced. But at this time, we may be able to find some.
Kirk: But, you said they were toxic.
Spock: We could construct a device to collect their high energy photons safely. These photons could then be injected into the Dilithium chamber causing crystalline re-structure.
Spock isn't very insightful unless he's pressed with a dire need for inventiveness. He doesn't think that his "memory" of high-energy photons has any practical use in the 23rd century until they need them for dilithium crystal re-structure.
With that in mind, Kirk & Co. may have effectively ended a very long and industrious business beginning in the 22nd century. They have managed to return to their time frame with the knowledge of re-crystalizing dilitium. This would make the mining of dilithium crystals a major waste of time. All they need NOW is to "re-crystalize" the ones they already have. (mining would not go away, but be severely lessened by being able to gas-up your old crystals)
| By Adam Bomb on Monday, February 19, 2001 - 04:12 pm: |
There is an infomercial for Greenpeace making the rounds. I think that some of the footage of whale slaughter was also seen on the Cetacean Institute's video screen. Very disturbing, both when I saw this film in '86, and today. I am thinking about giving them the $18 monthly they ask for. Especially now, the environment will be under assault, with George W. Bush, Gale Norton and Christine Whitman in the decisive positions.
| By Matt on Wednesday, February 21, 2001 - 02:40 pm: |
Good for you, Adam! Go for it.
| By Derf on Tuesday, March 06, 2001 - 10:00 pm: |
President: Status report, Admiral?
Cartwright: Not good, Mr. President. The probe is headed directly toward us. It's signal is damaging everything in its path. (to Officer) Get me the Yorktown.
Yorktown: ... 00130 ... Code Red. It has been three hours since our contact with the alien probe. All attempts at regaining power have failed. All nonessential crew have been given hypo-stetic injections, to slow down consumption of life support reserves.
I suppose the essential crew is the all-famed "skeleton-crew" that Trek writers mention alot. I wonder what color uniforms indicate you are a bone? That would make the injection-officer's job easier. "Let's see, green tunic ... you're free to go. Red ... get in line!"
| By ScottsGrl on Thursday, March 29, 2001 - 09:59 pm: |
In Star Trek IV when they put the whales in the water, when Kirk pulled Spock in, his facial expressions were changing. He was trying not to laugh, I think.
I'm so proud! This is my daughter's first nitpick!!!!! -- ScottN
| By Derf on Friday, March 30, 2001 - 06:21 am: |
You GO girl!!
| By Sven of Nine on Friday, April 13, 2001 - 02:46 am: |
Yes - welcome, friend!
| By Derf on Wednesday, May 02, 2001 - 08:34 pm: |
>>when they put the whales in the water, when Kirk pulled Spock in, his facial expressions were changing. He was trying not to laugh, I think.<<
I noticed that myself ... it must have been really tough for Leonard to keep a straight face while everyone else was having fun. I suppose the unused takes had him dunking Kirk and splashing Uhura, and squirting water through his hands.
| By Andreas Schindel on Friday, May 04, 2001 - 05:35 am: |
Does the alian probe want to TALK with the whales or KILL them? Why does it use that much energy, that the oceans are half boiling?
| By Richard Davies on Friday, May 04, 2001 - 04:26 pm: |
Maybe it increased it's transmitter power to full blast, in case the whales had not heard it.
| By Rene on Wednesday, May 09, 2001 - 05:27 pm: |
If I remember correctly from Leonard Nimoy's autobiography, the scene after Kirk releases the whales was improvised. Nimoy told them to have fun with the scene.
| By Todd Pence on Friday, May 11, 2001 - 12:04 am: |
Re: Kirk's comment that the people of his time didn't use money.
Surely what he meant was not that the Federation had no system of exchange, but that he and Spock had no medium that would be accepted as currency in the twentieth century.
| By LUIGI NOVI on Friday, May 11, 2001 - 02:09 am: |
I'm afraid not, Todd. Check out the dialogue from the Italian restaurant scene:
Gillian: "Can we have that to go, please?"
Waiter: "Sure. Er, who gets the bad news?"
Gillian: "Don't tell me they don't use money in the 23rd century."
Kirk "Well, we don't."
Gillian's specific question had nothing to do with not having local currency. Kirk, in fact, sold his antique glasses to get some when they first got to 20th century Frisco, and actually DID have 20th century money.
This does not mean, however, that this point hasn't been conflicted, since numerous instances have been pointed out where people use latinum, credits, or vouchers as a medium of exchange. I think it's just one of those things that the overly idealistic Powers That Be didn't think through. It seems as if they made the broad conclusion that money was inherently evil, and that they equated the elimantion of ALL money as being exemplary of the utopian future.
LUIGI NOVI
| By Derf on Friday, May 11, 2001 - 11:10 pm: |
There are several scenes in which the latent use of money has arisen. In ST3, McCoy tries to charter a space flight to the Genesis Planet by saying, "Look, price you name ... money I got." McCoy, also in ST6 says, "I'd give REAL money if he'd shut up!" (which might even add weight to the NON-money usage argument by virtue of the "real money" statement) In ST3 Kirk tells Admiral Morrow, "Thanks for the drink", implying that Admiral Morrow "bought" Kirk's drink for him.
And on-and-on it goes. No matter how "utopian" Mr. Roddenberry might have set out to be, the every-day, ordinary, typical, you've-seen-one-you've-seen-them-all expressions will ALWAYS win out.
| By Someone Else on Saturday, May 12, 2001 - 04:02 pm: |
Of course, there's the ubiquitous "credits" that sci-fi writers are so fond of. They could be the system of currency in Star Trek, without actually calling it money.
| By Sean on Wednesday, May 16, 2001 - 10:22 am: |
When Kirk and Crew appeared over 1986 Earth in the Klingon ship, Spock said " We are probably detectable by the technologies of this time period" Does that mean that the Pentagon and the White House according to this movie knew about the Klingon ship and did nothing?
| By John A. Lang on Wednesday, May 16, 2001 - 12:35 pm: |
Welcome to Roswell.
| By Brian Fitzgerald on Wednesday, May 16, 2001 - 02:37 pm: |
no they picked up blip on the radar for a split second. Before they could do anything the blip was gone. Perhaps they investigated further, but of course nothing was their that they could pick up.
| By Derf on Wednesday, May 16, 2001 - 05:05 pm: |
Brian, I think you are confusing the "waking up after the time travel" scene with the "discovering Uhura and Chekov on the Enterprise" scene. When Spock said, "Admiral, if I may, we are probably already visible to the tracking devices of the time", he was gently admonishing Kirk for not immediately ordering the cloak to be engaged. The "strange blip" scene involved the two crewmen on the Enterprise that noticed an unexplained power drain.
| By Brian Fitzgerald on Wednesday, May 16, 2001 - 10:44 pm: |
No, I meant that someone on Earth may have picked them up as a "strange blip no the radar" for a split second. I did not mean to imply that it appeared in the movie. I was figuring what could have happened durring that breaf time before they cloked. I did not realize that they even used the word "blip" in the movie.
| By US Government on Thursday, May 17, 2001 - 12:51 pm: |
It was a weather balloon.
| By mogh on Friday, May 18, 2001 - 03:27 am: |
Did anyone notice, that the interior of the Bird of Pray has changed between ST III and ST IV?
If Kirk (or Scotty) had the time for a refit of the whole brige, why didn´t he change the klingon displays into federation standard?
| By Derf on Friday, May 18, 2001 - 11:49 am: |
To make it a religious vessel, one MUST change the interior. Bird of Pray? ... nyuk-nyuk
In the episode "Obsession", the Enterprise was scheduled to rendezvous with the Yorktown ... the Enterprise and the so-called "future" Enterprise together. The Yorktown is shown in this movie when it is crippled by the probe. The captain's message said that all remaining power was being conserved, except that the captain needed to use some just to "post a nit" (so-to-speak).
| By LUIGI NOVIj. on Friday, May 18, 2001 - 11:08 pm: |
I don't know if the Yorktown in this episode is the future Enterprise-A. It's possible, but it's also possible that the refit configuration-Yorktown was an entirely new Yorktown built in that configuration, as opposed to a retrofitted old one. Could be either one.
| By Derf on Saturday, May 19, 2001 - 12:51 am: |
Probably not ...
| By Nick Angeloni (Nangeloni) on Saturday, May 19, 2001 - 10:41 pm: |
The Yorktown was probably not even renamed Enterprise. Just doesn't seem logical since it had a full crew. It's more likely the Enterprise-A was a new ship that hadn't been launched or an older ship that had been refit and in need of a crew.