Star Trek III: The Search for Spock
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Star Trek III: The Search for Spock
I'm guessing all the posts here were erased and never brought back or something. Surely if I was able to spot a couple of nits other must have seen more too! 
Anyway, I'll start things back up on this one. First of all, I'm confused by a few things regarding the Enterprise's return. The Commander of Starfleet leads us to believe the Enterprise has been gone for a long while ("In your abscene, Genesis has become ..."). So I guess we're to assume that Spock's messing with the main power was just a temeporary fix and the Enterprise had to go home at impulse, hence the long journey home. This makes no sense. Right after our heroes steal the Enterprise, they happily warp out to Genesis, arriving in about a day (based on what happens on the planet). So either Genesis exploded into a political issue in a little over a day, or Scotty fixed up the warp drive in the few minutes between his arrival on board and the rest of our heroes arrival!
And also, if Starfleet feels that the Enterprise is old, out-dated, and past her prime, why did they allow Kirk to put so much effort into finding a replacement crew in the previous movie?
The treatment of Spock's body was done pretty poorly by the Enterprise crew. Is it customary to just dump out dead bodies on empty planets without even contacting the family?? In the 20th century we contact families and ask what they'd like done with the body, don't you think someone should have contacted Sarek and asked if he wanted the body? I also believe McCoy was around when Spcok was shot out into Genesis. Why wouldn't he object? Does the katra need a few hours to impress itself upon the carrier??
Doesn't Spacedock have a tractor beam anywhere? Their best response to the attempted steal of Enterprise is to send out another starship, one that's not even powered up yet?? How about a patrol ship, there better be one in the vicinity of Earth, one that's actually powered up and has a tractor beam. It shouldn't that easy to run away with a big ship, even if you are Starfleet personnel.
I assume Grissom would be equiped with some kind shields and weapons. She's a science ship, but for the sake of protection should have defense systems and some light weapons. I believe her captain even says to prepare to return fire. They activate red alert, so any of their defenses should also go up. Yet, one Klingon torpedo blows them up. The Enterprise takes a Kinglon torpedo unshielded and Kurge expects the Enterprise to return fire and destroy them. Surely Grissom should be able to withstand a Klingon torpedo w/ shields. Maybe a shield generator malfunction?? A Klingon super-torpedo? The money-torpedo?
When Savikk learns David used Protomatter to create Genesis, she dramatically asks "How many have paid the price for your impatience? How many have died?". Ummm ... so far David making Genesis with Protomatter hasn't killed anyone. All making the thing with Protomatter did was cause the planet to be unstable and blow itself up eventually. This will lead to the death of Kurge, but that's it. All the rest of the deaths in this movie come as a result of the idea & power of Genesis, not its tragic flaw.
Speaking of the Genesis planet, I thought it was only capable of reformatting a planetary matrix. Well, since Khan overoaded the thing inside a ship in a nebula, where'd this planet come from?? The Genesis shock wave looked rather destructive, I imagine it would have destroyed Regula & the science station. Plus, Khan didn't actuvte the Genesis device, didn't he set it to overload? Would that create the Genesis effect as well?? (an overloaded phaser doesn't fire as it blows up, why would the overloaded Genesis device take effect as it's put on overload?).
>>Khan didn't activte the Genesis device, didn't he set it to overload? Would that create the Genesis effect as well?? (an overloaded phaser doesn't fire as it blows up, why would the overloaded Genesis device take effect as it's put on overload?).<<
David (on the Enterprise) said that Khan had activated the device ..
David: "It's the Genesis Wave ... it' on a build-up to detonation."
Kirk: We'll beam over and stop it.
David: You can't ...
This does not suggest that Khan had set it on "overload" ... only that he had "committed" the device to detonation. In fact, when he pressed th last button, the device flashed the message "commit" ...
As for Scotty's repair work. He repaired it on the way home. Just before McCoy breaks into Spcok's quarter's there is an exchange between Kirk and Scotty about that.
As for how many have died, this was after they lost contact with the Grissom, after the previous movie's death's and with them alone on the Genesis planet. Saavik was just a bit grumpy there.
The programming took hold and created the closest thing it could to the final program. A full planet.
The Enterprise probably didn't come home straight away. They probably waited a day or two to make repairs, study the Genesis effect and perform Spock's ceremony.
Thanks for taking the time to restart this board with that excellent post though Ryan.
This movie was PRIME in letting McCoy (Kelly) shine as a true comedian. He had ALL the great funny lines in this flick ...
McCoy: There aren�t going to be any damned permits! How can you get a permit to do a damned illegal thing? Look, price you name. Money I got.
Fishface: Place you name. Money I name. Otherwise bargain, no.
McCoy: Alright, dammit! It�s Genesis. The name of the place we�re going is Genesis!
Alien: Genesis?!
McCoy: Yes, Genesis! How can you be deaf with ears like that?
Officer: Sir, I�m sorry but your voice is carrying. I don�t think you want to be discussing this subject in public.
McCoy: I�ll discuss what I like � and who in the hell are you?
Officer: Could I offer you a ride home, Dr. McCoy?
McCoy: Where�s the logic in offering me a ride home, you idiot! If I wanted a ride home, would II be trying to charter a space flight?
Officer: Make it quick, Admiral. They�re moving him to the Federation funny farm.
Kirk: Yes, poor friend. I here he is fruity as a nut-cake.
Officer: Two minutes. (Kirk enters detention cell)
McCoy: Jim �
Kirk: (showing Vulcan peace sign) How many fingers do I have up?
McCoy: That�s not very damm funny.
Kirk: Your sense of humor�s returned.
McCoy: The hell it has. (Kirk produces hypo-spray) What�s that?
Kirk: Lexorin.
McCoy: Lexorin?! What for?
Kirk: You�re suffering from a Vulcan mind-meld, doctor.
McCoy: That green-blooded son-of-a-••••• � it�s his revenge for all those arguments he lost!
Officer: I�ll just get in the closet. (Uhura aims phaser at him) Okay!! (closet door closes)
McCoy: I�m glad you�re on our side.
Sulu: One minute to space doors.
McCoy: (to Kirk) Are you just gonna walk through them?
Kirk: Calm yourself, doctor.
McCoy: Rapid aging. All genetic functions highly accelerated.
Kirk: What about his mind?
McCoy: His mind�s a void. It seems Admiral that I have all his marbles.
T�Lar: Who is the keeper of the katra?
McCoy: I am � McCoy, Leonard H. � Son of David.
T�Lar: McCoy, son of David � since thou art human we cannot expect thee to understand fully what Sarek has requested. Spock�s body lives. With your approval, we shall use all our powers to return to his body that which you possess. But McCoy, you must now be warned. The danger to thyself is as grave as the danger to Spock. You must make the choice.
McCoy: (swallowing hard) I choose the danger. (to Kirk) A hell of a time to ask.
::"...it�s his revenge for all those arguments he lost!"::
This is by far the best McCoy line in the history of Star Trek. It just characterizes him so well.
I never understood why people include this movie in the odd-numbered Trek movie rule. I don't think this movie deserves to be grouped with TMP or Final Frontier or Generations...
I guess the downbeat nature of the film isn't to everybody's taste.
Oops, sorry about those two mistakes in there. I noticed it never did say Khan overloaded his device. I assumed he had a torpedo, as shown in the breifing, but it refers to thing Khan stole as just the "Genesis device". I originally thought it was a Genesis torpedo, hence my reason for thinking he overloaded it.
And as for the repair time, I thought that Scotty was reffering to repair time in that conversation. I went back and listened again, and it was refit time. Plus Kirk does say "Scotty, you fixed the barn door after the horse has come home", so I guess that makes it pretty conclusive
As for why the "odd-numbered curse" is around, STIII probably got forced into it. It's not as bad as 1 or 5, but also not as excellent as 2, 4, & 6. Probably somewhere in-between, if not closer to the better ones. But, in order to keep the pattern going and in order to come up with a cool name for this percieved curse, 3 had to be looped in with the bad ones. Too bad too, because this movie doesn't deserve that.
Isn't the self-destruct sequence in this movie a nit? They use the same sequence as they did in "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield", but there was no request for the irrevocable 5-second countdown!
Kirk never made a request. He stated no command could reverse the autodestruct after the five second mark.
No, in "Battlefield", the COMPUTER asked for the 5 second password.
What is a nit to me is that even after "the refit", (in ST-TMP) they didn't update the self-destruct command sequence. Didn't Kirk, Scotty, Chekov, etc EVER sit down in a meeting and periodically change the security codes on the ship?
Sorry, Scott. In the filmed episode, Kirk did NOT ask for a five second final code, there was none. He was goading Bele during the countdown about the irrevocable final five seconds, and Bele jumped in just in time. The way you described it, with a separate code for the last five seconds, was the way it was in the James Blish adaptation. The destruct sequence is one of my favorite scenes in the series, tensefully photographed in EXTREME close-up; you can see the pores on their faces. The music editor chose the right music for the scene, I don't think they could have done better with an original score.
The producers of "TSFS" went back to "Battlefield" and lifted the destruct sequence, changing the countdown from 30 seconds to one minute.
One nit that I'm sure has been raised is - upon stealing the Enterprise, shouldn't Kirk and company have been locked out of stuff like destruct orders?
Thank you. I knew I wasn't crazy!
And it's not like the Enterprise knows it was stolen, so why would it lock out Kirk and company?
Adam, I know that Kirk didn't ask for a five second countdown. My nit is that in LTBYLB, the COMPUTER asked for a 5 second password, which Kirk aborted ("123 Continuity" or some such), but in TSFS, the COMPUTER just merrily went down to 0 without said password.
Of course, Adam, I may be working from my memory of the Blish novelization rather than the aired ep, but I could have sworn that the computer was waiting for the password for the "irrevocable 5 second countdown". Though in hindsight, that's a stu-pid thing to have in a self-destruct sequence.
That is what I was saying. The computer never asked for a password for the last five second. Kirk just stated that after 5, no order in the Universe could stop the computer from destroying the Enterprise.
As I was watching ST 2, this whole Protomatter flaw seemed even more odd to me. Starfleet is assiting these scientists to develop Genesis, therefore I would hope they have reviewed the makeup of Genesis, not just the results. If no reputable scientist would ever dream of using Protomatter, why is the Federation even involved with this project? They even funded it, didn't they? Why would they fund a science program that is using such a foolish susbstance such as Protomatter? Desperation? They share David's impatience?
Maybe Section 31 was behind it all with their "ends justify the means" way of thinking
"In the 20th
century we contact families and ask what they'd like done with the body, don't you think
someone should have contacted Sarek and asked if he wanted the body?" (-Ryan-)
Hear, hear! No wonder Sarek shows up early on in the movie and gives Kirk a telling off for leaving Spock behind.
"I also believe McCoy
was around when Spcok was shot out into Genesis. Why wouldn't he object? Does the katra
need a few hours to impress itself upon the carrier??" (-Ryan-)
Whilst there's no plot-related answer to this, of course the real-world answer is that at the time Spock's funeral scenes were filmed, there was no katra idea, nor was any thought being given that Nimoy would soon change his mind about playing Spock and that there would be a Star Trek III. As many people may know, the katra scene in Star Trek II was filmed last of all, without Nicholas Meyer at the helm, to counteract the original plot element that Spock's death be irrevocable.
No one has mentioned the Klingon being crushed by the tree near Saavik and Spock several minutes BEFORE the Klingons even arrive on the scene.
Not a nit, but Spock redoes a couple words in the "Needs of the many" mantra at the end of the film. He says "I have been and ever shall be your friend," instead of "always will be" or however it was said in TWOK.
About the captain of the Excelsior (sp?) ordering the ship to chase Kirk out of the spacedock at one quarter impulse: According to the Star Trek Encyclopedia, Full impulse is one quarter light speed. Therefore, In that first second, The mighty Excelsior would travel 11625 miles, or 18750 km for our European friends. That spacedock must be a whole lot bigger than we thought. No wonder Valeris is wary of taking the Enterprise out at that speed in ST:VI. Also, when the Transwarp drive fails, the Excelsior skids to a halt outside of spacedock. They must hate all the friction in space.
Robbie, I agree with the nit, but not the maths.
You assume that the Excelsior can reach full speed instantly. The creators are (perhaps wisely) vague on the acceleration of the impulse engines, but based on the figure of 10km/sec squared for the Ambassador class vessel (Tech manual, p75) it would take over 30 minutes to reach one quarter impulse.
That still begs the question of the size of Spacedock.
Assuming Ambassador class acceleration (10 km/s2), and using standard formulae (v = at, d = 0.5at2) we then have the following:
| Time | Speed | Distance |
| 1s | 10km/s | 5km |
| 2s | 20km/s | 20km |
| 3s | 30km/s | 45km |
| 4s | 40km/s | 80km |
| 5s | 50km/s | 125km |
Unless Spacedock is 20km across, they should be out of it within 2 seconds!
The ONLY other time this line was EVER delivered was at the end of ST2 ...
Spock: (narration) Space � the final frontier. These are the continuing voyages of the starship Enterprise. Her ongoing mission to explore strange new worlds. To seek out new life-forms and new civilizations.
The ONLY others to utter those words ... (Kirk, Picard) said "To seek out new life, and new civilizations."
IS there enough of a difference between the terms life and life-forms for a "spiritual" (dead) Spock to make a use of the term "life-form" when Picard/Kirk (living) always just said "life"? ... message, Spock??
He also says it like "civil-izz-ations" rather than "civil-ize-ations", I think the only time it's pronounced that way.
I think Kirk always pronounced it that way, too.
Did Kirk have his glasses on when he fought Kruge on the planet? If he didn't, then how did he have them to sell in ST4:TVH?
He kept them in his pocket.
::I think Kirk always pronounced it that way, too.::
No, he didn't, hence why Spock's style sounded so..... different.
Well, Spock's style sounded different for a number of reasons...
It was a somber, almost a whispering tone.
Nimoy's voice was more... I dunno how you'd describe it... gutteral?.. certainly deeper. He sounded much older (partly because he was).
Nimoy's articulation was used for more dramatic effect than Shatner's.
Not having a copy of TOS on-hand, I can't verify whether Shatner said izz or ize... just going from memory. I'll assume you checked and verified and defer to your analysis.
But I could swear (based on memory) that Stewart was the one who first pronounced it the other way.
Did Kirk even wear the glasses in this film? If he didn't, why not? Were the glasses repaired between the time they got back and the time they stole the Enterprise? If so, did they break during the fight?
Boy, I'm obsessing about Kirk's glasses, aren't I?
There were stills and publicity shots circulated with Kirk wearing the glasses as he is going through the visual logs of Spock and McCoy in Engineering. However, in the finished film, the glasses are not used.
I know Carol Marcus said in the previous movie that Genesis accelerated life at an incredible rate, but this is ridiculous
During Spock�s voiceover, in the beginning of the movie, we see the Genesis planet, then the camera pans through the clouds, then across the flora in a Genesis jungle. As someone pointed out at the Movie Mistakes site at http://www.movie-mistakes.co.uk/film.php?filmid=1218, in the second shot of this "jungle," as Spock says, "To boldly go," you can see a freeway in the bottom left hand corner of the screen.
At this rate, he�ll be able to play the whales in Star Trek IV
How much time has passed between this movie and the last? Scotty has not only gained weight (Compare his appearance when Kirk first meets him on the Enterprise during his inspection tour in ST II to his appearance in the beginning of this movie), but his hair is whiter too.
Kirk: "Spock, I don�t believe the jacuzzi, waterbed and wine rack is acknowleged by the Starfleet Quartermaster�s Office as basic standard -----------crew quarters� necessities."
Spock: "Guy�s gotta live."
When Chekov shows Kirk the intruder alert display, the blinking pixel superimposed on the display graphic of the Enterprise is huge compared to the relative size of the ship, and would seem to cover a very large chunk of the ship itself, considering it�s only one crew member�s quarters. If Spock has such huge quarters, I just have to see what size quarters Kirk has, especially given Scotty�s comment in Relics(TNG) that such quarters were unheard of in his time even for an admiral, as well as the apparent small size of Spock�s quarters in ST VI.
Apparently, Keptin, someone broke into Meester Spock�s quarters fifteen years ago!
Movie Mistakes pointed out that the graphic of the Enterprise with the blinking dot indicating the intruder is of the Enterprise�s original configuration�look at the nacelles.
Or maybe they�re just really vain
The security guards in front of Spock�s quarters wear protective body and head gear. I guess their banking on the hope that they won�t come across some oaf smart enough to plunge a knife or shoot a phaser in their faces.
Well, at his age, it�s high time he stopped living with her
Why isn�t Carol Marcus present on the Grissom with her son? Isn�t she just as anxious to study the Genesis Planet?
Sounds like the captain has Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. Quick! Somebody go and see how many times he has to check that the bathroom door is locked
Captain Esteban says he can�t beam up Spock until the risk of contamination is verified. Weren�t the quarantine or similar barriers invented yet? The end of ST II showed Spock inside a radiation barrier, and we have means of sealing off germs even today.
I knew they shouldn�t have let MTV hold this year�s Spring Break special on the Enterprise..
When the Enterprise pulls into spacedock, there is battle damage on its starboard side and on the front end of the port nacelle. But during both battles with the Reliant in ST II, the Enterprise only took damage to the port side of the stardrive section, not to its port side, and not to its nacelles. Where did all that extra damage come from?
You better shape up, crewman. There�s an asteroid field out there, and I just been ACHING for some target practice! And I couldn�t help but notice that you received a couple of unsatisfactory marks on your last crew evaluation...
Sarek is dismayed at Kirk for shooting Spock�s body out of the Enterprise, and leaving him on Genesis, and he�s darn right. What the hell was Kirk thinking? Shouldn�t this be up to the family of the deceased? Sure, the funeral scene at the end of ST II was powerful, so why didn�t they just have Kirk tell Sarek that it was in Spock�s will to be interred in this manner? Since Sarek and Spock were not on good terms, it would not be surprising for Sarek to not know this. Instead, all Kirk has to say for himself was that he saw no future for Spock. That�s it? What happens to a crewman�s body is up to Kirk�s little whims and flights of fancy? Does everyone get blasted out in a photon torpedo when they die? When it was revealed in Requiem for Methuselah that you could drink on the job, Starfleet seemed like a really attractive place to work for me! Somehow, the thought of serving on the Enterprise doesn�t seem so appealing anymore. I can imagine funerals being a lot more festive when unpopular crewmen bite the bullet: "Hey everybody! Lt. Novi just kicked! It�s torpedo time!!"
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When Kirk instructs the computer log of Spock transferring his katra to Bones, he says, "Repeat and augment." The computer repeats the sequence and zooms in on Spock�s face as he says, "Remember". First, Kirk never specified to the computer how far back to rewind, nor did he tell it to, "stop right there", but let�s just assume for generosity�s sake that the rewind function operates by rewinding a constant quantity of time backward, say ten seconds, unless further specified, much like some VCR remotes that require only one push of the remote�s button, and resume forward play on their own after a set amount of frames rewound. But second, even if we allow that, how did the computer know which part of the screen to augment? In Identity Crisis(TNG), Geordi had to refer to a grid and specify which area of the grid to augment. He also had to tell the computer the specific time index number correlating to the point in the log he wanted to view. In this movie, Kirk�s computer just seems "to know," as if it�s psychic, but by NextGen, the computer has lost this ability.
Spock must have "found religion" after that episode
At the end of Return of the Archons, Kirk noted to Spock how Landru, while a powerful computer, did not possess a soul. Spock dismissed the comment as "predictably metaphysical," and that he himself prefers to dwell on and discuss matters that are "concrete," "graspable" and "provable." This made sense, since the existence of the soul is anecdotal and cultural, not scientific or factual, but this movie establishes that the soul, which the Vulcans call the katra, is a generally accepted matter of fact to them (which makes sense in a culture where the people have telepathic abilities, and can manipulate them).
Incredible. A character that makes Jar Jar Binks sound coherent by comparison
The charter pilot that Bones speaks to is an interesting character, and his broken English was well scripted in order to illustrate beings of different cultures and languages interacting, but doesn�t a station orbiting Earth with numerous beings from many different worlds passing through it have the universal translator? Every other alien we�ve seen speaks perfect English with exact syntax and grammar. Did Fishface take a course in Latin before meeting Bones? (Because words in Latin sentences can have any order.) You�ll notice that he specifically says his English isn�t so good. Someone speaking in his native tongue, and using a universal translator wouldn�t say this. This implies that he�s actually trying to speak English, and that the station has no unitran.
Makes sense. Every cab driver I�ve met knows all about our classified military secrets
By the way, how in THE WORLD did this guy learn about Genesis? Isn�t Genesis in restricted space? Wasn�t this a military incident? Didn�t Admiral Morrow tell the Enterprise crew that no one was to discuss it? Does every fishfaced cab driver get reports on classified Starfleet incidents?
Right. The Starfleet captain didn�t know that Kirk is now an admiral, but the cab driver with the bad language skills knew all about Genesis. Pass the shovel.
As Kirk and crew steal the Enterprise, Capt. Styles gives him one last warning, that he�ll never sit in the captain�s chair again. Some should update the good captain Styles on current events. Kirk�s an admiral now. He never would have sat in it again. Not unless he planned on going on trips on other ships and taking over from the captain like he did in the first two movies, and this is such common procedure that Styles himself was familiar with it. Only now was Kirk sitting in it because he was hijacking it.
Well, OF COURSE he did! Doesn�t EVERYBODY put a spare change of clothes in the casket when they bury a family member, just in case he�s comes back from the dead and doesn�t want to wear formal clothing?
When David and Saavik open Spock�s torpedo casket, they find his burial garment, but when they find Spock, he has it on!
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Stellar cartographers must be a really hardworking bunch. When the Enterprise approaches Genesis, Sulu notes that they are now entering the Genesis Sector. Genesis Sector? The •••• planets just been formed, and already the powers that be have redesignated that sector of space after it? Isn�t that sector of space called the Mutara Sector? Isn�t that how Bones and Fishface referred to it?
D�k tahg? Was the Klingon who named it clearing phlegm when he did so?
The Klingon dagger, first seen in this movie to kill David Marcus, and first referred to as the d�k tahg in Birthright part II(TNG), was used in the final fight between actors Phillip Rhee and Mark Rolston (who appeared as Pierce in Eye of the Beholder(TNG)) at the end of the 1994 martial arts movie Best of the Best 3, and by Mario Van Peebles� character in the 1996 sci-fi film Solo. Now how did this happen? Have Klingons been doing some time-traveling to 20th century Hollywood?
Oops! Sorry, son!
Obviously, the Enterprise�s transporters are working when Kirk and crew beam off it after setting the self-destruct. So why didn�t Kirk send a man or two down with a phaser to ambush the Klingon party holding Saavik and David hostage?
The "Hey, it�s not my job!" Award for incompetence on the part of a captain in getting his crew killed
This captain Kruge guy ain�t too smart. Not a very fast thinker under pressure for a captain, either. When his men board the Enterprise and broadcast the destruct countdown to him, rather than order his transporter person to beam his party back, he starts frantically screaming at them over the comm channel to "get out of there!" How are they supposed to "get out of there"? By using the transporter, right? Couldn�t have Kruge done that himself?
Putting the "boob" in "booby trap"
Now maybe I�m just armchair quaterbacking, but if I board an enemy starship, no one�s on board, and the computer is saying something in a language I don�t know, even if I can�t understand it I can tell if it�s speaking in brief words with pauses in between each word that it�s a countdown, and that therefore, I�m walking into a booby trap.
Apparently, beginner�s luck is a large part of this "refusion" business
After Sarek requests the refusion for Spock, T�Lar tells him that it has not been done in ages past, and then only in legend. Only in legend? If that�s true, how did they know exactly how to do it? How is it that it turned out so successfully?
Luigi--sorry--there's a nit in your posting:
"When David and Saavik open Spock�s torpedo casket, they find his burial garment, but when they find Spock, he has it on!"
No he doesn't..Saavik & David drape it on the naked Spock. (watch the scene again)
By the way, how in THE WORLD did this guy learn about Genesis? Isn�t Genesis in restricted space? Wasn�t this a military incident? Didn�t Admiral Morrow tell the Enterprise crew that no one was to discuss it? Does every fishfaced cab driver get reports on classified Starfleet incidents?
The distruction of the nebula surely would have been noticed by civillian astronomers (presumably by the 23rd century they use faster than light censors as well as light gathering telescopes). Even if Starfleet won't officaly say why the sector was restricted right after the nebula disapeared a nsecret that big would be like Area 51 or the Aurora project is today ("I don't care if you have pictures of it we don't have a base in groom lake were we test secret experimental planes.")
Luigi Novi: ***When David and Saavik open Spock�s torpedo casket, they find his burial garment, but when they find Spock, he has it on! ***
No, he didn't. they found him naked, shivering in the snow.
Luigi Novi: ***How are they supposed to "get out of there"? By using the transporter, right? Couldn�t have Kruge done that himself? ***
This is not the only time we've seen this. In ST6, the assassins beam from Enterprise into the Klingon transporter room (and then later back). For some reason (safety?), in TOS, you have use the transporters from both ships when beaming from ship to ship.
Luigi Novi: ***You�ll notice that he specifically says his English isn�t so good. ***
He does? I don't recall this at all.
John A. Lang: No he doesn't..Saavik & David drape it on the naked Spock. (watch the scene again)
Luigi: Oops. (Man, how the hell did THAT happen?)
Brian Fitzgerald: The distruction of the nebula surely would have been noticed by civillian astronomers (presumably by the 23rd century they use faster than light censors...
Luigi Novi: You mean the First Ammendment can now be violated at light speed? Oh, no!
Seriously, I can buy faster than light travel. But faster than light sensors? How the hell would that work?
Luigi Novi: You�ll notice that he specifically says his English isn�t so good.
Mikey: He does? I don't recall this at all.
Luigi Novi: I reviewed the scene. Damnn. My nits are being beaten, whipped and made into someone else's bit ch. AARRRGGGHH!!
Seriously, though, even though the argument is weakened somewhat by this fact, Mikey, there should still be unitrans in that station and Fishface's English should sound just like every other alien's.
FTL sensors would work by increasing the frequency of the wavelength, ie radar operates at a certain microwave frequency so FTLDar would operate at a corresponding subspace frequency.
Maybe fishface (as he is being called) is trying to be polite by speaking english or a public unitrans (if it exists) keeps a record (or at least he is afraid it does) of what is said.
Also I have to agree about genesis being made public. We see several news networks in STVI so they probably existed in TWOK and broke the news story.
Kruge let his ego and dreams of rewards for capturing the great criminal Kirk (by this point in the Trekuniverse he no doubt has already made a name for himself among the Klingons) and destroying the Enterprise. Also he was a bit over the top class A personality as was shown by his testing himself against the big worm on the planet.
Thanks, Mikey for backing me up on the naked Spock shivering in the snow.
What I can't seem to figure out is how David lost the battle when he goes after the Klingons just before Spock's Pon Farr. David has Saavik's phaser. There are only 3-5 Klingons. Is the "wide field" function on phasers missing now?
Sorry, Lolar, but the whole subspace frequency radar thing is too speculative for me. A ship can travel through subspace, and then come back into normal space, but I don't see how a person on Earth looking at a distant object in normal space can use subspace to view it. That's just me.
Luigi, the sensors work on the same principle as Subspace Radio.
Seriously, I can buy faster than light travel. But faster than light sensors? How the hell would that work?
Since they can pick up ships travaling at warp speed they must have some type of FTL SENSORS (not censors).
John A. Lang: ***Thanks, Mikey for backing me up on the naked Spock shivering in the snow. ***
If this had been a line on Enterprise...
Well it is not speculative to me. Like I said it works similar to RADAR. There is an emitter that accelerates the frequency of the sensor into the subspace bandwidth to send the signal on its way and a receiver antenna to bring the signal back in. Or actually more like a transceiver in the main sensor dish and the lateral sensor arrays. It is in the TNG Tech manual.
Now that I am home and have the TNG teh manual in front of me look on page 111 section 10.2 which discusses the Long Range Sensors: I quote from thusly "This cluster of high-power active and passive subspace frequency sensors is located in the Engineering Hull directly behind the main deflector dish."
I don't mean to change the subject, but I just wanted to get my 2 cents in on Excelsior's sabotage (with my advanced apollogies if this has already been covered somewhere else)...
I've heard and read a lot of complaints about the Excelsior slowing to a halt after the transwarp drive failure. "There's no friction in space to slow it down," etc.
I think that was all part of Scotty's sabotage plot. Not only does the transwarp drive not work, the ship's braking thrusters fire to add insult to injury. After all, Scotty didn't seem to like Captain Styles too much, and probably made that extra little effort to knock a chip off Styles' shoulder.
Just my interpretation on the matter. (Please go back to your sensor discussion now, and thanks!)
James B. Sikking played Capt. Styles like a 23rd Century version of his Howard Hunter character from "Hill Street Blues."
Actually, Craig, it isn't really necessary to come up with an explanation for this, because Phil's statement that the Excelsior coasts to a stop is just flat out wrong. It never does this.
Look at the shot of the ship with sounds of the transwarp drive sputtering out. We never actually see it stop. The ship keeps going, and the shot simply cuts to the Enterprise.
It does slow down a bit, as I recall. I think you may be right about it not coming to a complete halt, though.
I thought of something about the sensor discussion, though it actually stems from a scene in ST:IV TVH...when Kirk and crew lock onto the whales' radio transponder signal, Kirk orders it to be put on the viewer. Uhura complies, and behold, we see an arial view of the whales swimming in the ocean. Jillian starts to say "How can you do that?"' but is cut off by the impending crisis with the whaling ship.
So, we have more evidence that electromagnetic signals can be manipulated. HOW they are manipulated is the intriguing part. (Sorry I don't have anything of my own to offer in the way of an explanation. I do vaguely recall the ST:IV novelization actually having Jillian's question get answered, but I don't remember what that answer was.)
By LUIGI NOVI
How much time has passed between this movie and the last? Scotty has not only gained weight (Compare his appearance when Kirk first meets him on the Enterprise during his inspection tour in ST II to his appearance in the beginning of this movie), but his hair is whiter too.
The actors aging is a nit???? How lame.
By LUIGI NOVI
The security guards in front of Spock�s quarters wear protective body and head gear. I guess their banking on the hope that they won�t come across some oaf smart enough to plunge a knife or shoot a phaser in their faces.
You were hoping for head-to-toe armor? A visored helmet? Iron Man? Some nit, ace.
By LUIGI NOVI
Why isn�t Carol Marcus present on the Grissom with her son? Isn�t she just as anxious to study the Genesis Planet?
No. No she isn't. Next?
By LUIGI NOVI
Captain Esteban says he can�t beam up Spock until the risk of contamination is verified. Weren�t the quarantine or similar barriers invented yet? The end of ST II showed Spock inside a radiation barrier, and we have means of sealing off germs even today.
Not in transporter rooms. Not a nit. Esteban was an idiot anyway, the movie made that clear. Next?
By LUIGI NOVI
Sarek is dismayed at Kirk for shooting Spock�s body out of the Enterprise, and leaving him on Genesis, and he�s darn right. What the hell was Kirk thinking? Shouldn�t this be up to the family of the deceased? Sure, the funeral scene at the end of ST II was powerful, so why didn�t they just have Kirk tell Sarek that it was in Spock�s will to be interred in this manner?
Also not a nit. The burial was in keeping with the naval tradition upon which TWOK and TOS were based.
By LUIGI NOVI
What happens to a crewman�s body is up to Kirk�s little whims and flights of fancy? Does everyone get blasted out in a photon torpedo when they die?
Yes. Those that aren't vaporized, pushed into bottomless pits, or turned into little cubes.
By LUIGI NOVI
how did the computer know which part of the screen to augment?
The part with movement.
By LUIGI NOVI
doesn�t a station orbiting Earth with numerous beings from many different worlds passing through it have the universal translator?
Know many smugglers who would go to a bar where their every word was mechanicaly heard and potentially recorded and trascribed?
By LUIGI NOVI
By the way, how in THE WORLD did this guy learn about Genesis? Isn�t Genesis in restricted space? Wasn�t this a military incident?
Military secrets are the most fleeting of all.
Spock, The Enterprise Incident
By LUIGI NOVI
The Starfleet captain didn�t know that Kirk is now an admiral
wha?
By LUIGI NOVI
Kirk�s an admiral now. He never would have sat in it again.
He was an admiral in the second 5 year mission, too. Besides, everyone in the fleet knew Kirk was obsessed with starship command.
By LUIGI NOVI
The Klingon dagger, first seen in this movie to kill David Marcus, and first referred to as the d�k tahg in Birthright part II(TNG), was used in the final fight between actors Phillip Rhee and Mark Rolston (who appeared as Pierce in Eye of the Beholder(TNG)) at the end of the 1994 martial arts movie Best of the Best 3, and by Mario Van Peebles� character in the 1996 sci-fi film Solo. Now how did this happen? Have Klingons been doing some time-traveling to 20th century Hollywood?
ooh, well there ya go. A 1996 movie cause a nit in a 1984 film by using a prop. riiiiiiight.
By LUIGI NOVI
After Sarek requests the refusion for Spock, T�Lar tells him that it has not been done in ages past, and then only in legend. Only in legend? If that�s true, how did they know exactly how to do it? How is it that it turned out so successfully?
They looked it up.
Pretty lame, ace.
mf are you rude by nature or just in a bad mood?
By LUIGI NOVI
Kirk�s an admiral now. He never would have sat in it again.
By mf
He was an admiral in the second 5 year mission, too. Besides, everyone in the fleet knew Kirk was obsessed with starship command.
Wha? What second five year mission? Where did you get the idea of a second five year mission in any part of canon, genius? Besides, what would what the rest of the fleet knows about Kirk's likes have to do with it? Thats not really how the military works, ace. Get a clue.
See? Its easy to be rude when responding to nits. Try to be nice in the future and people will most likely be nice when responding to your nits.
Actually there is nothing in canon that states there was a second 5-year mission, however many of the novels, fan fiction and the FASA RPG use that to explain how the age of the Enterprise in TSFS can be 20 years as well as all of the other changes between TMP and TWOK. So the mf is being rude based on established non-canon information. Unfortunately the delivery of said information is rather crude, tactless and quite unpleasantly done.
Well put, Lolar.
mf, an entirely friendly - for now - warning: This site's founder and/or moderators aren't very tolerant of your style of nitpicking, OK? We've had to deal with rude and crude posters before - quite recently, in fact.
You're knowledgeable, you've got something to say, fine. You should be able to say it without resorting to those kinds of tactics.
mf: The actors aging is a nit????
Luigi Novi: No, the fact that Scotty appears so different, when ST III takes place right after ST II is.
mf: You were hoping for head-to-toe armor? A visored helmet? Iron Man?
Luigi Novi: Wasn�t "hoping" for anything. Just noticing that it doesn�t make much sense for a uniform designer or quarter master to be so concerned with such selective body parts.
Luigi Novi: Isn�t Carol Marcus just as anxious to study the Genesis Planet?
mf: No. No she isn't.
Luigi Novi: Genesis is her life�s work. With all due respect, I don�t buy it.
mf: Not in transporter rooms.
Luigi Novi: 1. This has never been established. 2. If they could build a barrier in Engineering, they could do so in the transporter room, or just beam Spock directly to sickbay, or better yet, put a transporter in sickbay.
mf: Esteban was an idiot anyway, the movie made that clear.
Luigi Novi: Not really.
Luigi Novi: Sarek is dismayed at Kirk for shooting Spock�s body out of the Enterprise, and leaving him on Genesis, and he�s darn right. What the hell was Kirk thinking? Shouldn�t this be up to the family of the deceased? Sure, the funeral scene at the end of ST II was powerful, so why didn�t they just have Kirk tell Sarek that it was in Spock�s will to be interred in this manner?
mf: Also not a nit. The burial was in keeping with the naval tradition upon which TWOK and TOS were based.
Luigi Novi: Starfleet is patterned after Earth�s U.S. Navy. That doesn�t mean that what happens to a crewman�s body is. In an organization containing members of many alien races, their respective burial customs should dictate what happens with their remains, not "naval tradition." The fact that a set of circumstances is consistent with something on one hand does not mean it would necessarily be appropriate in light of other circumstances on the other. Nor does it make it "not a nit."
Luigi Novi: how did the computer know which part of the screen to augment?
mf: The part with movement.
Luigi Novi: Yeah. How did it know Kirk wanted that part? When examining a video, an investigator may be looking for something motionless in the background. In Identity Crisis(TNG), Geordi had to specify to the computer which grid he wanted to select, which makes more sense.
Luigi Novi: Doesn�t a station orbiting Earth with numerous beings from many different worlds passing through it have the universal translator?
mf: Know many smugglers who would go to a bar where their every word was mechanicaly heard and potentially recorded and trascribed?
Luigi Novi: In the first place, that wasn�t my point. My point was that a station that plays host to members of many different races should have unitrans. Whether or not people intending illicit activity would go there is an entirely different point. Second, unitrans translate. They do not necessarily record.
Luigi Novi: The Starfleet captain didn�t know that Kirk is now an admiral
mf: wha?
Luigi Novi: Huh?
mf: He was an admiral in the second 5 year mission, too.
Luigi Novi: He only commanded the Enterprise for one five-year mission. When it ended, he was promoted to Admiral and became Chief of Starfleet Operations, according to ST TMP.
mf: Besides, everyone in the fleet knew Kirk was obsessed with starship command.
Luigi Novi: I�m obsessed with Jessica Alba. Doesn�t mean she�s going to show up on my door. Similarly, Kirk being obsessed with command doesn�t mean he�d sit in the captain�s chair as an admiral.
Luigi Novi: The Klingon dagger, first seen in this movie, was used in Best of the Best 3 and by Mario Van Peebles in the 1996 film Solo.
mf: ooh, well there ya go. A 1996 movie cause a nit in a 1984 film by using a prop. riiiiiiight.
Luigi Novi: I didn�t say it was a nit. It was simply something I found interesting, and decided to point it out.
Luigi Novi: T�Lar tells Sarek the refusion has only been done in legend. If that�s true, how did they know exactly how to do it? How is it that it turned out so successfully?
mf: They looked it up.
Luigi Novi: If there was reference so detailed that it described the exact procedure enough for it to be done, then it obviously isn�t a "legend." That was my point.
mf: Pretty lame, ace.
Luigi Novi: I�m sincerely hurt, let me tell ya. But hey, opinions and anuses, mf. Everyone�s got one.
By LUIGI NOVI
How much time has passed between this movie and the last? Scotty has not only gained weight (Compare his appearance when Kirk first meets him on the Enterprise during his inspection tour in ST II to his appearance in the beginning of this movie), but his hair is whiter too.
The actors aging is a nit???? How lame.
It is when it's supposed to take place right after the previous movie and the characters look several years older.
Disregarding the fact that Admiral Morrow is wrong about the Enterprise being 20 years old, I wonder what he would have thought about Starfleet in the future, when Excelsior-class, Miranda-class, and Oberth-class ships are still serving 80 years in the future?
Morrow later tells Kirk that the Enterprise 'couldn't take the pounding, and you know it'. What does this say about Scotty's skill? The Enterprise easily made it to Genesis, but fell victim to a lack of crew to prepare her for battle.
Will: I wonder what he would have thought about Starfleet in the future, when Excelsior-class, Miranda-class, and Oberth-class ships are still serving 80 years in the future?
Luigi Novi: Well, he didn't say the Enterprise should be decomissioned because the Constitution class is 20 years old, bu because the ship itself is.
Well, in "Relics" Geordi said that the Jenolan might still be in service if it hadn't crashed, and it was commissioned sometime in the Trek movie era, I would guess. Of course, he was just trying to make Scotty feel better about himself, and maybe he wasn't being completely honest.
It's interesting that the regulars look a lot older in this film than the last, even though they were only 2 years apart in production. I can't remember which film they were refering to but I read in a TV guide write up of one of the first 3 ST films that the earlier ones were more believeable because the cast still looked young enough to be in active service. In a similar way a comedian described the last 2 with the original cast as "Dad's Army In Space"
mf: ***Also not a nit. The burial was in keeping with the naval tradition upon which TWOK and TOS were based. ***
What naval tradition is that? I have no knowledge of any naval tradition that involves putting corpses in weaponry and launching them into the orbit of a planet.
Oh, you mean the old custom of "burial at sea"? Well, my understanding is that burials at sea were done because in olden days there were no methods of preserving dead bodies. The bodies were dumped in the ocean to protect the remaining crew from disease. I would think that by the 23rd Century, man would have figured out a way to preserve corpses... because we don't seem to have a problem with that now in the 21st Century.
Or are you suggesting that this particular piece of technology gets lost in the Eugenics War?
It seemed to me that Admiral Morrow wanted to bury all but Scotty as punishment for Genesis. That's why he used the excuse of retiring the Enterprise due to her age. After the compleate frame up restoration (essentially making her a new ship) in TMP she isn't that old. Even if you factor in a second five year mission. If you are counting from the creation of the Constitution class pre rebuild then it is much older than 20 years since Pike had it for at least 2 five year missions (according to Roddenberry's notes and Spock saying he served for 11 years with Pike) plus the time under Capt April and the 5 years under Kirk. Just a giant political manouver in my opinion.
Wow, this is a hostile board. Anyway two new nits for you (please be gentle).
1. After Kirk leaves the bridge to go to Spock's quarters at the beginning of the movie, Chekov says something in Russian (I'm assuming) to Scotty. Why would he do that since he knows Scotty would not understand him? Strange.
2 Spock says to Kirk at the end of the movie, "My father told me that you came back for me". Really? When? We were watching them both the whole time.
Be Welcome friend. A lot of folks bark is worse than their bites around here and it is all in good conversational jousting fun. Now on to duscus what you brought up:
Chekov may have said that because he was excited or under stress. One of the people at work has English as a second language and she sometimes slips back into her original italian when she is mad,stressed or otherwise excited. But you are right it does seem a bit odd in the context.
There was a little bit of time there between the end of the ceremony and the time when Spock walked out, or at least it was implied to me at least by the way Kikr and the others were getting up off the ground as if they had sat down to take a nap.
Lolar Windrunner:> (You sound like one of the townspeople in "Return Of The Archons"! LOL!)
1. Yes, that is completely plausible. Only we knew Chekov a little better than that; his behavior seemed a little out of character. (Even though he was always excitable.)
2. Tou'che. I have to watch the ending again.
Here is another: In the ending credits, why do they refer to Grace Lee Whitney as "Woman In The Cafeteria"? Why didn't they refer to her as Janice Rand? That was her role, wasn't it?
Maybe they thought people didn't recognize her, and if she was listed as "Janice Rand," the audience members would say "WHAT? Where was SHE in this movie?"
OK, that was lame, but so was the way the credits listed her...
I honestly can't think of a real reason for the listing. Surely it couldn't have been due to licensing problems with the name...?
By the way, doesn't this film also list the Klingons as "aliens?" I don't have a copy around to verify...
It probably has more to do with the way the scene was scripted. I doubt the script said, "Janice Rand reacts to the sight of the damaged hull." Instead, it probably referred to her as "N.D. woman" or something like it.
Then they cast Whitney in the part. And the post-production people responsible for laying out the credits of the film just referred to the casting sheets, which never referred to the character as Janice Rand.
Ah well thats the first time I've been told that. I do have a tendency to speak in a rather archaic form at times, but such is the way I am. True about Checkov I have to agree. Well I guess it gives me an excuse to fire up the VCR and watch it again tonight to see about those pesky credits. Good fortune to all.
Well The Klingons were listed as such in the closing credits (at least the main 6. Also they listed the main Vulcans as The Vulcans, sounds kinda like a Federation Sitcom. As for Rand I can't come up with anything better than whats already been said. A couple of other things I was thinking about while watching this: when the Faltorpan begins where does all the thunder and lightning come from? Also why does Sarek and Saavik both appear to go into somekinda trance? Does the faltorpan cause such mental power that all of the Vulcans in the neighborhood have to join in as well as creating a light show? Interesting eh?
Is is it just me, or does the Enterprise bridge (and most of the interior) look grey and metallic in The Wrath of Khan but white and plastic in The Search for Spock?
Just checked my copy of the shooting script -- neither Rand, nor a "Woman In Cafeteria" "is even mentioned. It simply says that people in the cafeteria react to the amazing sight of the battle-scarred Enterprise passing by.
I imagine Nimoy probably inserted Whitney here as a gesture of friendship/continuity for the hardcore fans. Normally such a role would not even be credited (no dialogue, no "real" contribution other than to sum up the reaction of all present viewing the sight). We as fans realize her contribution, but to most she would simply be one more extra, forgotten in a moment's time.
Sir Rhosis
I have to admit, the first time I saw the film, I noticed her, but not who she was! I caught it the second time I viewed the film.
Oh no, mf is back...
SECTION 31 NOTE: A "Collector's Edition" of STIII is coming out on DVD..no addtional footage like in STTMP but it will include "deleted scenes" and cast interviews
The Spectre: Is is it just me, or does the Enterprise bridge (and most of the interior) look grey and metallic in The Wrath of Khan but white and plastic in The Search for Spock?
Yep, this has always bugged me. Even when i found out that the bridge set used in ST2 was destroyed in a fire. If they had to build a new set, couldn't they at least get the colour schemes correct? The lower displays between the doors on the bridge are blue in ST2 but green in ST3. (obviously the cadets had nothing else to do but toy with the graphical display colours)
Also, the exterior damage to Enterprise is much more extensive than it was at the end of ST2.
Don't quote me on this, but i also think the transporter beam is now a much brighter blue than it was in the last movie.
But overall, definitly cheaper sets all round. The bridge of Excelsior looks absolutly fake, and we only ever see what comes across as half a bridge on Grissom. There are minimal shots of the corridors on Enterprise, and we only see a corner of engineering that is so small, Scotty is obviously crammed into another set that has a couple of flashing lights to make it 'seem' like a complex area. For a film in which the original Enterprise has its final voyage, i wish we'd seen a bit more of it.
Yes, the Enterprise in this film has a different tone to the one in the previous film. If anything, they probably got the lighting fixed on the bridge on their way home. 
I actually don't mind the changes, as they seem "post-coital" compared to the adrenaline rush of the previous film (for want of better phrases....). They also reflect the feeling people want out of the ships: did anyone shed tears when the Grissom was blown up with a single attack ("I wanted prisoners!!!")? Did anyone laugh when the Excelsior with its huge and impressively futuristic bridge was caught with their underpants down?
Sure, all those moments were what got me into Star Trek. When i first saw this film as a child, Grissom being destroyed so swiftly shocked me silly. The same when Enterprise was destroyed, because no one had any idea back then that another would be built. It was all truely awesome, especially because our heroes were slinging away their careers at the same time. This dark installment of the movies with only Spock's survival being the 'happy part' at the end is something i've been waiting to see again in the form of TNG. I hope ST: Nemesis takes note from this film's strengths.
Why is the Grissom in the Mutara sector ALONE? The Federation knows its still at war with the Klingons and that the Grissom ain't sturdy enough for combat. Would it have killed the Federation to station a battlecruiser to protect the Grissom?
Why do David & Saavik beam down ALONE? They're going to investigate an UNKNOWN reading on the sensors. Would it have killed Estalban to add a couple of security guards?
Actually no the Federation DIDN'T know they were at war with the Klingons. They knew that there at a 'cold war' poster as there had been for many decades (apparently) but open hostilities didn't exist. All thru out the cold war many scientific vessels ventured into the Arctic ocean and Norweigan sea unescorted by warships. Dispite being right on the Soviet's door step. Besides the Genesis planet was apparently pretty deep in Federation space so why escort her?
And we don't know that in a straight up fight that the Grissom wouldn't have been a match for the Bird of prey. She declocked and fired. If Grissom had been able to raise her shields she might have been able to put in a good account for herself.
Hmmmm. Unknown sensor readings? Strange planet? What red shirt is gonna volunteer for THAT job?
Chekov's white collar vanishes when he tells Kirk about how Starfleet had warned the Grissom about the Enterprise's arrival to Genesis.
I must add that I feel sorry for Rand (Grace Lee Whitney.) All she does is look out of the cafe window, look at the damaged Enterprise & shake her head. Why not have her beam over & hug Kirk and ask if he's ok?
Cause she's lucky she got that. She didn't leave Star Trek because of 'creative differences' or because 'they wanted to take the character in another direction.' She was fired because she was a screw up hoe. She, by her own admittion, was coming to work f'cked up and generally acting unprofessional. She didn't deserve a second chance at all, so whatever small one she got was more then she deserved.
LANGUAGE, Adam, language.
Yeah - not nice at all, Adam.
Or very charitable, either. However screwed up Grace Lee Whitney was by the time she left TOS it's worth noting that it was the pressures of Hollywood that started - or at least heavily contributed to - her troubles in the first place. Overall, addiction is far too complicated an illness to pass such sweeping judgement on what Whitney 'deserved'!
Besides which she eventually did get her act together in time to appear in the Classic films...and more importantly, to become a source of inspiration and help for others struggling with the same horrific troubles. Quite the accomplishment for a 'screw up hoe', eh?
Oh boo hoo. Hey Kerriem, could you please take a picture of those tears you're crying and mail them to me. its [email protected]. She doesn't deserve charitible. Funny that other actors on the show where able to avoid "the pressures of Hollywood" and not come to work messed up.
Addiction is not complicated, she CHOOSE to use those drugs. Just like drunk drivers choose to get in a car. Are we now gonna start feeling sorry for drunk drivers that kill people? "aww I feel her pain"
Hey Kerriem, maybe we should give Charles Manson a walk on part. He hasn't had anyone killed in decades. Maybe he can be an example as to how cold blooded killers, with the right help, can stop killing. Maybe he can be an inspiration to other cold blooded killers that are struggling with the same problem he was.
The producers saw a problem and dealt with it. That was the proper decision.
And she was a "screw up," she even admitted it. And she was a hoe, she admitted it "I was selling my body for drug money on the streets." I rest my case.
Erm, Adam, go back and read my post a little more carefully. I'm not suggesting she wasn't those things.
Nor am I suggesting that the producers didn't do the right thing it firing her from the show - at the time there was no other option for anyone concerned, Whitney included.
All I was suggesting is that we show a little compassion for a woman who hit rock bottom and subsequently managed to pull herself up to the point where she now can help others like her - people who are caught up in the grip of something horrific they largely can't control (which is where addiction and drunk driving diverge.)
You're evidently not in agreement with that viewpoint, and any discussion from this point on is better served by Political Musings anyhow, so I'm not gonna pursue this any further.
I'm merely going to mention that I really, really hope you were kidding about not being able - or wanting to be able - to tell the difference between a basically decent person in the grip of drugs/alcohol and a psychopathic sadist serial killer. 
Well, the Special Edition DVD disc set is out. It was released a week ago Tuesday. I haven't watched the commentary tracks yet (one with commentary by Harve Bennett, Leonard Nimoy and Robin Curtis and someone else whose name I don't remember.)
There are no added scenes. AFAIK, there really aren't any deleted scenes. The one I do know of, takes place near the end of the film on Mt. Selaya, when a young Vulcan girl is supposed to walk up to the body of Spock as he's being taken to T'Lar. The girl gives the Vulcan salute and says, "Live long and prosper, Spock." The scene was in Vonda McIntyre's novelization of the movie. It was apparently filmed as there is a credit under the Vulcan cast for "Girl" (Katherine Blum).
In the interviews on disc 2, Shatner comes across as... well I hope he's joking, but he comes across as insufferably pompous and arrogant. It's hard to sit through his parts of the interviews. especially when he talks the infamous Paramount stage fire.
BTW, Search for Spock has an easter egg. You'll find it in "The Star Trek Universe" section. Just click on the Faltor-Pann arch. (I believe that's what it is.) You'll see a segment about the puppeteering used in ST III.
My one regret - that Nimoy did not at least change that ridiculous sound effect that happens when Excelsior stops. Ugh! It sounds like they got it from an old Hanna-Barbera cartoon. I keep expecting to hear George Jetson say, "Well, Jane, you finally stopped that crazy thing."
I'm sorry, Katherine Blum is listed in the credits as "Child". We regret the error.
I just thought of something. (Duh, why else would I be posting?) The gurgling/sputtering noise of the Excelsior stopping reminds me of the old Cary Grant film Operation Petticoat, where the submarine in that film frequently made a similar noise as its engines repeatedly conked out. Any connection?
I forgot to mention, the DVD has a teaser trailer for Nemesis. I'm not impressed. But then, I'm not really a fan of the Next Generation or the other spin-off series. [Shrugs] What can I say? I'm not yet sure if I'll buy Generations on DVD when it's re-released. The Undiscovered Country may be as far as I go with the movies.
Best unintentionally funny moment on the commentary track: Enterprise is approaching Genesis. Kirk orders Chekov to hail Grissom "at regular intervals". Over all this, Robin Curtis is talking about how the other actors - Walter Koenig, George Takei, Mark Lenard, Jimmy Doohan, Nichelle Nichols - encouraged Curtis to attend Trek conventions. Robin states that she has enjoyed attending the cons these "past 18-19 years." "...at regular intervals," concludes Kirk.
One nit I noticed in rewatching this. Well, maybe it's not a nit, but when Kruge pops in the Genesis tape, one of the control panels on the Klingon Bird of Prey has the numbers "0300" on it. The Klingons use Arabic numbers?
Re: the 0300 nit.
Perhaps Kruge hat to steal a spacial Federation computer to store/playback the genisis data. (Mabye the Bird of Prey uses a Unix OS )
UPN is running the Star Trek movies II - V on Friday nights, beginning last week with "The Wrath of Khan": Last night was "The Search for Spock". The soundtrack to the film sounded really muddled to me. Did anyone else notice this, or was it just my UPN affiliate?
I didn't think ths sountrack was muddled. However, the editing done on this film to fit a two-hour time slot (with commercials) was absolutely atrocious. This edit was far worse than the cut done for ABC in 1987. Whole chunks of the film were just ripped away. At least TNN runs the films just about uncut (although stacked with ads.) I'll stick with my DVD's, thanks.