In response to Keith Allen Morgan asking why we are watching an image of a moon on screen, when Carol Marcus says that stage 3 of Genesis will used on a planetary scale, we take it for granted that all moons will look like ours. As it's necessary for, as Marcus says, "a moon or some such lifeless body", it would have to start off barren, with no atmosphere, because she didn't want 'even so much as a microbe' to be present, thus resulting in massive asteroid and meteorite impacts. And if that's not enough, consider the real-life surface of our distant neighbor, Mercury, which looks alot like our own Moon.

By Nathan K. on Thursday, September 02, 1999 - 01:58 pm:

Besides, there is more than one definition of "planet." It can simply mean everything that's bigger than an asteroid but smaller than a star. For the purposes of the Genesis experiment, they just need a lifeless planet. There's no reason to disqualify one just because it orbits another planet and could be called a moon.

By mf on Thursday, September 02, 1999 - 05:29 pm:

I still wanna know where the sun came from. Even if Genesis was going to be deployed within a solar system, in the end it was detonated in a nebula. A planet was formed- but where'd the sun come from?

By Nathan K. on Thursday, September 02, 1999 - 11:55 pm:

I guess the nebula was within the Regula system. Fortunate, that.

By Steve McKinnon on Friday, September 03, 1999 - 10:31 am:

I never really understood the whole 'where did the star come from' business, either, as Genesis was about terraforming a planet from a lifeless solar body, and not about creating a life-giving star. Perhaps the star is the reconsituted Mutara Nebula, sucked back into star form (remember the Enterprise fleeing surrounded by rings of nebula matter), while the Regula asteroid that served as Stage 2 of Genesis, became the Genesis Planet? The Nebula is nowhere to be seen after detonation of the Gensis Device.

By cableface on Friday, September 03, 1999 - 02:28 pm:

Perhaps the Genesis effect compacted all the matter in the nebula into the planet.Of course, I'm just guessing.

By Nathan K. on Friday, September 03, 1999 - 02:55 pm:

The Genesis device did not create a star; it created a planet from the matter in the nebula. The star must have already been there, probably the one orbited by the Regula asteroid.

By Brian Lombard on Thursday, September 16, 1999 - 06:47 pm:

Just thought I'd pass along a great new nit. Pay
very close attention during the sequence on Genesis which leads up to the image of Spock's
tube on the planet, just before the closing credits. As the camera pans through the forest, look to the bottom left-hand corner of
the screen, and you'll see a highway with traffic
going in both directions! Oops.

By Keith Alan Morgan on Friday, September 17, 1999 - 03:21 am:

Steve: Carol Marcus calls the object in the simulation a "moon"!

(I would have posted this sooner, but my VCR has been on the blink.)

Although, her calling the object in the simulation a moon does bring up another nit. Where is the planet that this simulated moon should be orbiting?

By Steve M. on Friday, September 17, 1999 - 10:59 am:

Oops! Of course, it's been about two years since I saw STII, but you'd think after more than 10 viewings I'd have the exact line imprinted on my Big Giant Head.

By mf on Friday, September 17, 1999 - 04:27 pm:

Keith - the planet could have been far away - well out of camera range. Though here's a substantive question - if the genesis wave causes such dramatic shifts in the moon (including the shifting of gravitational fields, as we know from ST III), what happens to the planet it's orbiting? It could go through the very same changes as Ceti Alpha V!

By Keith Alan Morgan on Friday, September 17, 1999 - 06:00 pm:

Steve M: Always remember
Watch first,
Post second! ;-) ;-)

Actually you were partly right, after stating that stage 3 would be on a planetary scale she does mention a moon or other body could be used.

Also, forgot to post this last time, my middle name is spelled Alan, not Allen.

mf: The 'planetless' moon nit is in a simulation that Kirk, Spock & McCoy are watching. So it wasn't really Paramount who made the mistake, it was actually the Federation studio, which created the simulation, who made the mistake. ;-) ;-) ;-)

By BrianB on Monday, September 20, 1999 - 02:48 am:

Pay very close attention during the sequence on Genesis which leads up to the image of Spock's tube on the planet, just before the closing credits. As the camera pans through the forest, look to the bottom left-hand corner of the screen, and you'll see a highway with traffic going in both directions! Oops.

That's some Genesis device. Creates Soil, rocks, vegetation, and highway traffic!

By XNZ on Monday, September 20, 1999 - 03:18 am:

"...and on the eighth day God created the internal combustion engine and fossil fuels to run it..."

By Shira Karp on Thursday, December 02, 1999 - 10:44 am:

When Khan first appears on screen, capturing Chekov and Terrell on Ceti Alpha V, we notice he is wearing an old and rusty pendant on a chain. The pendant looks just as if it were a bronze Starfleet belt buckle, tarnished and worn by about twenty years worth of desert sandstorm, like a relic of Khan's adventure on the Enterprise before he was banished. One problem: back in the days when Khan had his only run-in the Federation, bronze buckles, snaps, and other insignia were not used in Starfleet uniforms! Back then, no metal was seen in uniforms at all. In fact, the first time we ever encounter a bronze Starfleet buckle of the same approximitae shape as Khan's is... at the beginning of this movie! Which leads us to wonder if Khan's people are as forsaken as they seem and if other Starfleet personnel have neglected to mention side-trips to Ceti Alpha V in their logbooks.

By Chris Thomas on Sunday, December 12, 1999 - 10:29 am:

Re: "How do the ear slug young know the difference between the ear and the nose?" - maybe they're attracted to ear wax?
Why does the ear slug that crawls out of Chekov continue to make a noise after it has been vaporised by the phaser?
Why dooesn't Saavik have eyebrows at 45 degrees like other Vulcans (and then again, why does she say "Damnn" at the start in the simulation, given she isn't human?)
So Khan is from 1996 and he was a prince - guess Janeway and crew weren't too worried then about his influence when they headed back to that time.

By Anonymous on Sunday, December 12, 1999 - 09:35 pm:

Janeway & co. wouldn't be, for all Voyager cares the Eugenics Wars didn't happen -- you know how they are about continuity!

By margie on Monday, December 13, 1999 - 12:42 pm:

>Re: "How do the ear slug young know the difference between the ear and the nose?" - maybe
they're attracted to ear wax? <

Ewwwww...

By Benn Allen on Monday, December 13, 1999 - 06:29 pm:

In the first part of this board it was noted that
Merritt Buttrick died of AIDS. Someone asked if it
was acquired through a blood transfusion. Well, if the book "Captain Quirk" is any indication,
Shatner was a bit reluctant to do any scenes with
him, particularly the scene where they hug. Let's
just leave it at that.

By Anonymous on Monday, December 13, 1999 - 08:03 pm:

Where's the validity in a book called "Captain Quirk?" Is there an anti-Shatner biographer writing book's about WS life? And I also fail to see the point in writing useless •••• about "the horrible Patrick Stewart" aka the un-authorized biography about him that came out years ago. It seems people are cynical enough to be bent on trashing others while making a profit off of it. Talk about the lowest low-life's there are out in the publishing world. Not to mention moronic hypocrites.

By Chris Thomas on Tuesday, December 14, 1999 - 12:54 am:

Margie, Re: "Eeeeewwwww!" - just remember what the dung beetle is attracted to.

By margie on Tuesday, December 14, 1999 - 06:49 am:

Double Ewwwwwww!

By ScottN on Tuesday, December 14, 1999 - 10:11 am:

Chris,

just remember what the dung beetle is attracted to

Dungarees? J

By Benn Allen on Thursday, December 16, 1999 - 03:21 pm:

Like I said, ..."if the book 'Captain Qirk' is any
indication...". I wasn't necessarily taking it at
its word. I felt it went a little too far in its
Shatner-bashing. But, for better or worse, and
probably worse, it was the only source I know.

I would say, however, that it's possible that SOME, NOT all, the claims in the book may have some merit. Just as Albert Goldman's anti-Lennon and Presley hate diatribes, have information in them that are accurate, they're badly distorted to hate-filled bias. I believe the truthis usually somewhere in between. Finding a biography that balances the two is extremely rare.

By Anonymous on Saturday, January 08, 2000 - 11:11 am:

Having just watched this over Xmas, I think I've noticed a slight nit. When we are first hear of Chekov in this film he is dictating his log the dialogue runs something like "USS Reliant First Officer's log Lieutenant Paval Chekov". Later on the crew of the Reliant are attempting to open comms with Chekov and Terrell, one of the turns and says "we can't raise them ( or something similar), Commander". The nit is how is Chekov the first officer when there is some else on board who out ranks him? This doesn't occur any where else in Trek, there have always been specialists, Doctors, Engineers etc but they never outrank the 1st officer.

By Chris Thomas on Saturday, January 08, 2000 - 10:53 pm:

What about when in The Best of Both Worlds when Riker, upon becoming captain, says he considered both Data and Worf for first officer, despite the fact Data is a Lieutenant-Commander and Worf is only a Lieutenant.

By Anonymous on Sunday, January 09, 2000 - 04:01 am:

Good point but wasn't this in a special situation, along the lines of a battle field promotion?

By Chris Thomas on Sunday, January 09, 2000 - 09:05 am:

Given Data has 26 years Starfleet experience (as mentioned in Redemption), is a higher rank (which must mean something) and is highly skilled android capable of so much while Worf is known for being a hothead and having bad markmanship (in NextGen whenever he shoots, he almost always misses), who would you choose if Shelby wasn't around?

By Anonymous on Sunday, January 09, 2000 - 01:47 pm:

Riker can't choose,because if Worf becomes First Officer he would have to give Data orders, even though Data out ranks him, ok Data won't mind he has no ego etc. but more Human (or non-AI Lifeform) officers would'nt take to kindly to being bossed around by a lower rank. ( How on earth the Royal Navy managed when Prince Charles was an officer I don't know, I mean he addressed Admirals as Sir, and they call him "Your Royal Highness"). But this is all getting of the point, Chekov shouldn't be 1st Officer, I mean there's no reason as far as the plot is concered for him to be, after all he's just beaming down to protect his Captain,he could be the Security Officer, hang on as I type this I've had a thought, the Captain and 1st Officer on an away mission? This isn't allowed is it?

By Charles Cabe (Ccabe) on Sunday, January 09, 2000 - 01:59 pm:

Spock and Kirk beamed down on away missions frequently. Also, Kirk and Decker went on an away mission together in ST:TMP. It's also happened in TNG a few times. Also, The Commander couls just be visiting the ship (a la Worf).

By mf on Monday, January 10, 2000 - 11:48 am:

Anonymous - are you sure Chekov says Lieutenant? I was always under the impression he's a commmander in this one, and I think his rank insignia is commander. I've seen the movie countless times and know the line you mean, but I never noticed "Lieutenant" in there.

By Benn Allen on Monday, January 10, 2000 - 02:35 pm:

That's right. Chekov was a commander at the time
of "Wrath of Khan". That would remain his rank
throughout the rest of the movies. He may have
been a lieutenent in the first film, however.

By mf on Monday, January 10, 2000 - 03:10 pm:

Benn - yes, he was a ltnt in TMP. Rodenberry's novel has a nice line about it - that he still looked too young to be a full lieutenant.

By Benn Allen on Tuesday, January 11, 2000 - 07:58 am:

God, the only thing I remember about Roddenberry's
novelization of ST-TMP was that he had Admiral Kirk deny he and Spock had a "romance" going. Of
all the things to remember in a book...

By Chris Thomas on Tuesday, January 11, 2000 - 08:39 am:

Don't remember Kirk being an admiral in ST:TMP.

By Benn Allen on Tuesday, January 11, 2000 - 09:15 am:

At the beginning. He took a temporary reduction in
rank so he take command of the Enterprise. Decker
got busted down to a commander because of that.
Remember, Kirk had become a paper-pushing bureau-
crat. It was supposed to be a reward for services
rendered.

By mf on Tuesday, January 11, 2000 - 10:28 am:

Benn - I remember that - he had Kirk basically do a Seinfeld "not that there's anything *wrong* with that..."
Though I've heard the Kirk/Spock theory before. Also herd it about Batman and Robin and the Odd Couple.

By Will Spencer on Tuesday, January 11, 2000 - 11:09 am:

Kirk is also addressed as 'admiral' the first time Scotty and Decker see him, as well as when Commander Sonak thanks him for the Enterprise recommendation.
He's referred to as 'Captain' by everyone, once he takes the temporary rank reduction, and by McCoy as 'Captain, sir', because of a problem that arose between them prior to STTMP.

By mf on Tuesday, January 11, 2000 - 11:50 am:

The whole grade reduction things was silly. The captain of a ship is referred to as captain, regardless of actual rank.
And McCoy said "captain, Sir" that way because he was ticked at the military for reactivating him.

By ScottN on Tuesday, January 11, 2000 - 12:53 pm:

The captain of a ship is referred to as captain, regardless of actual rank..
Exactly, which is why Decker was (temporarily) busted to Commander. Otherwise, it was *HIS* ship, and regardless of Kirk's rank, he would have been in command.

On a side note, I've heard somewhere that when on a naval ship, Marine and Army Captains get a temporary social promotion so that there is only one "Captain" on the ship. Is this true?

By Benn Allen on Tuesday, January 11, 2000 - 04:38 pm:

mf,
The rank reduction bit is even sillier when you re
-member that a similar event occurs in the movie
this board is about. Yet Kirk remained an Admiral
and Spock a Captain. It did occur under slightly
different circumstances, but still...

Also, I think the first time I'd ever heard of the
K/S theory was in "STAR TREK Lives!" It mentioned
that it was a sub-cult of fan literature. This was
undoubtedly what The Great Bird was refering to in
his adaptation of ST-TMP.

By Keith Alan Morgan on Tuesday, January 11, 2000 - 08:52 pm:

An Admiral can not command a ship, he can only command the fleet, even if that fleet consists of one ship, the Captain is in command of the ship. Therefore to command the Enterprise, Kirk would have to be reduced in rank. (At least according to my dad who studies these things.)

I believe in the book, it was said that the Vulcan word for 'friend' was the same as the Vulcan word for 'lover'. (And a long winded as the book was, I can believe that it was ghost-written by Alan Dean Foster.)

Slash Fiction is the name for fan fiction which features homosexual encounters between characters and gets its name from the slash between Kirk/Spock.

By Benn Allen on Thursday, January 13, 2000 - 09:06 am:

Keith, I had half-forgotten about the Vulcan word
for "friend". I know I've thought of it over the
years, but until y'all mentioned it just now, it'd
been a lost memory. Wow.

"(And a long winded as the book was, I can believe that it was ghost-written by Alan Dean Foster.)"
Hey! Watchit! I used to be a major fan of Alan
Dean Foster's works. I didn't know he was supposed
to be the actual author of the novelization of ST-
TMP. Makes sense, since he wrote the original story, "In Thy Image". I knew he was supposed to
be the writer of "Star Wars". Now I'm wondering
who's supposed to be the ghost writer of "Close
Encounters of the Third Kind". I assume Steven
Spielberg isn't the true author.

Also didn't realize there had evolved a whole genre of "slash fiction". What? Geordie and Data?
O'Brien and Dr. Brashier?(sp?) Janeway and Seven of Nine? (That's the one I'd be interested in.)

By mf on Thursday, January 13, 2000 - 01:21 pm:

As I recall that word is T'hyla. It's supposedly closer to brother than friend.

By Keith Alan Morgan on Thursday, January 13, 2000 - 04:41 pm:

I don't hate Mr. Foster's work, I just think he good use a good editor to trim his unnecesary verbiage. Does he think he's getting paid by the word or what?

As for the genre of Slash Fiction, talk to Lea Frost, she seems to be the expert.

By Benn Allen on Thursday, January 13, 2000 - 05:50 pm:

"Does he think he's getting paid by the word or what?"

Uh, probably. A lot of writers are paid by the word. Of course, he might have a different sort
of contract by now.

By Keith Alan Morgan on Thursday, January 13, 2000 - 08:10 pm:

I know magazine writers get paid per word, and editors do have maximum word limits, but I thought when you get contracted to write a novel you are paid a pre-arranged fee, so that you get paid the same whether you deliver 60,000 words or 120,000 words.

By Benn Allen on Thursday, January 13, 2000 - 09:08 pm:

I think it depends on how new you are to the busi-
ness and your contract with your publisher(s). You
are right, of course, sir, about the magazines, though.

By Anonymous on Friday, January 14, 2000 - 02:45 pm:

mf, I'm certain Chekov says Lieutentant ( perhaps he actually says Lt Commander, and I'm watching a specially butchered BBC version)

By mf on Friday, January 14, 2000 - 05:05 pm:

Guess I'll be cranking up the ol VCR tonight.....

By Anonymous on Friday, January 14, 2000 - 05:55 pm:

Please do I'll be interested to hear what you find

By Brian O'Marra on Monday, January 24, 2000 - 09:12 am:

Fellow nitpickers have covered this movie thoroughly. Therefore, I have only this small nit to add...

In the Nitpicker's Guide to Classic Trekkers, the nit was discussed that Khan remembers Chekov during his commandeering of the ship in Space Seed. Walter Koenig did not join the show until Catspaw from the second season. Phil explained that Chekov could have been down in the lower decks during this time (the first season) and was only promoted to the bridge at the start of season two.

One small problem...stardates!!

The stardate for this episode is 3141.9. The stardate for Catspaw is 3018.2. How long has Chekov been assigned as navigation officer? He was seen at navigation in Patterns of Force, which has a stardate of (I believe) 2534.0.

So what do we have? Promoted to the bridge, demoted off the bridge, promoted to the bridge...ooh I'm getting a headache! You begin to see the problem.

By Keith Alan Morgan on Monday, January 24, 2000 - 11:15 am:

Brian: Roddenberry's explanation for Stardate calculation "adjusts for shifts in relative time which occur due to the vessel's speed and space warp capability", and added "the stardate specified in the log entry must be computed against the speed of the vessel, the space warp, and its position within our galaxy in order to get a meaningful reading."

In The Cage and The Menagerie a guy says that 'the time barrier has been broken' indicating that Warp drive affects how the ship relates to 'real' time.

Therefore we can assume that as the Enterprise flies around it crosses various galactic time zones (like Earth's time zones), plus it must adjust to the variation between ship time and real time, depending on how fast the ship is going and for how long the ship is travelling at that speed.

Therefore your confusion over the seemingly chaotic Stardates is because we are seeing them as they are recorded, but without the key for translating them into real time.

Or to use another example. NitCentral time is the Eastern time zone of the United States. Therefore a nitpicker in England seems to post a nit several hours before they ever sit down at their computer, while someone on the US west coast seemingly posts a nit 3 hours after they press Post This Message.

(Apparently when NextGen began they were still using the old chaotic Stardate method, but by the second season a more reliable, but not flawless, system of calculating ship Stardates had been developed so that they matched up better with real time and seemed to progress in a more orderly fashion.)

By Will S. on Monday, January 24, 2000 - 11:24 am:

And just because he wasn't on the bridge, doesn't mean Khan couldn't have encountered him below decks, as Walter Koenig once told a convention I attended.
Apparently, after that banquet, Khan wasn't feeling very well, and desperately had to go to the bathroom. Unfortunately, the only one available was occupied, leaving Khan with terrible cramps and unable to relieve himself. Finally, out walks Chekov, to which Khan screams at him, "YOU! I will never forget your face!"
Thus the famous scene in STTWOK, "But you...I never forget a face. Mr.Chekov..isn't it?"

By ScottN on Monday, January 24, 2000 - 12:11 pm:

Incidentally, I believe that Gene's explanation of Stardates (which I first read in "The Making of Star Trek") probably counts as the first instance of Trek Technobabble.

By Benn Allen on Monday, January 24, 2000 - 02:06 pm:

Don't know if mf did crank up the ol' vcr or not.
But over the past week, I did. I only scanned over
the movie, jumping to scenes with Chekov in it.
Y'know what? No rank, outside of science officer is ever given for Pavel. He's referred to as either "Chekov" or "Mr. Chekov".

Vonda McIntyre's novelization does refer to him as
a Commander. But in his log report (when we ffirst
encounter "Reliant"), he calls himself the "Duty Of
-ficer.

So, Pavel isn't the ship's first officer. But what rank is he? Well, Saavik IS a lieutenent.
She has one type rank emblem on her shoulder. Chekov has another. Chekov's is the same as Sulu's and Uhura's. Uhura is definitely a Commander. I believe she's even referred to as such. So apparently is Chekov. He just isn't the first officer of "Reliant"

By John A. Lang on Sunday, January 30, 2000 - 01:27 pm:

RUMINATIONS

This is the ONLY Star Trek Film with the
original cast in it that has the USS Enterprise
firing his phasors. SAD! It was a great effect!

NOTE:

Merritt Buttrick died from AIDS because he
was involved in an "alternate lifestyle"
relationship. See the WWW on it!

By John A. Lang on Friday, February 11, 2000 - 01:47 pm:

Not only does Khan have only one black glove on...
bit if you look very carefully, you can see
some black wires attached to it going up to the
upper torso.

I think Khan had some kind of accident on Ceti Alpha V and that hand is now some kind of
prosthesis...which explains why he changed hands
when extracting the baby Ceti eel from the mother.

By Ghel on Monday, February 14, 2000 - 03:16 pm:

We all know what rank Chekov is. He tells kirk in ST IV. "Chekov, Pavel. Rank: Admiral." :o)

By John A. Lang on Tuesday, February 15, 2000 - 12:52 pm:

TRIPLE NIT!!!!!!!

When Kirk finally fires on the Reliant
after getting the prefix code, Joachim
says that they can't fire because...

"They've damaged the photon control and the WARP
drive."

(Funny thing is the phasors hit the impulse
drive unit)

Later in the movie the turbolift doors open
on the Reliant and Joachim puts his hands on the
door frame and says... "IMPULSE power restored"

The 3rd nit happens just before he places his
hands on the door frame...[you might want to get
your "freeze frame" ready for this because it happens very fast]....in the back of the turbolift
you can see a diagram of a ship.....

IT IS THE ENTERPRISE!!!!!!!

(Khan & Company are on the Reliant!)

By John A. Lang on Wednesday, February 16, 2000 - 12:31 pm:

COMPARISON------

In "Space Seed" when the Enterprise detects the
Botany Bay, they get no return hail,& they detect
the machinery on board is working. Kirk orders red alert. No damage to Enterprise.

In "Star Trek II" when the Enterprise detects the
Reliant, they get no return hail, the sensors
detect the machinery on board is working. Kirk
orders yellow alert and allows the Enterprise to get pasted.

By Anonymous on Wednesday, March 22, 2000 - 02:02 pm:

Perhaps before Ceti Alpha V became a barren sand heap, it looked something like "Fantasy Island"

By ScottN on Tuesday, May 30, 2000 - 09:54 am:

Note: Majel Barret did not do the voice of the Enterprise computer. It was Marcy Vosburgh.

Why were they even looking in the Ceti Alpha system? Wouldn't they do background searches on the stellar systems they play with? You know...


Chekov: Computer, give me data on the Ceti Alpha system...

Computer: Ceti Alpha VI is inhabited by survivors of S.S. Botany Bay.

Chekov: Oh, that's an inhabited system. Ve'd better go elsevhere in case there's an accident vith Genesis!

Also, wouldn't they have noticed a missing planet?

By ScottN on Thursday, June 15, 2000 - 12:44 am:

Is the Genesis field affected by gravity? Consider, they were going to use it on Ceti Alpha V, even though they should have known that Ceti Alpha VI was inhabited (see previous post). Yet it appears that the Genesis effect expands through space at d*mn near warp (they needed warp to escape the effect), yet they weren't concerned about any of the other (4 or 5) planets in the Ceti Alpha system, or Ceti Alpha itself.

Remember, the effect took over a huge volume of space (about 4 cubic AUs) and created a star and a planet at Class M distance (hence the volume estimate), but they didn't seem to worry about any other planets. The only thing I can conclude (especially given the video demo of Genesis) is that the Genesis effect is confined by a gravitational field, otherwise it expands throughout space.

By John A. Lang on Thursday, July 13, 2000 - 07:48 pm:

NIT:

After Scotty brings the injured cadet to the Bridge the camera focuses on Spock...look behind him, you can see the weapons console with the current shield status readout...the readout is a tactical display of the USS Reliant!

UNANSWERED QUESTION IN THE MOVIE:

When Kirk finds Chekov & Terrell, Kirk says, "I know what he (Khan) blames me for."

What does Kirk mean by that?

By D.W. March on Friday, July 14, 2000 - 12:50 am:

BIGGER NIT: Why did Scotty bring him to the bridge in the first place? Injured crewmembers are treated in sickbay! Now Scotty has to live with a horrible burden of guilt: that luckless cadet (who is apparently his nephew) might have survived if Scotty hadn't taken him on a tour of the ship before taking him to SICKBAY!

By cableface on Sunday, July 16, 2000 - 06:58 am:

Terrell says to Kirk in that scene, "He's mad Admiral.He blames you for the death of his wife."
Kirk then says "I know what he blames me for."
Was Terrell's line cut out of the version you saw?

By John A. Lang on Sunday, July 16, 2000 - 03:13 pm:

Nothing was cut out, it just sounds like that there was something else that Khan blamed Kirk for.
Besides that, there's no way that Kirk would have known that Khan's wife was dead seeing Kirk never bothered to check on Khan's progress...if I understand the scene correctly, Kirk just found out about Khan's wife's death right then and there! So the way I see it, it must have been something else that Khan blamed Kirk for that wasn't mentioned.That's why I was wondering if there was something else Khan blamed Kirk for.
I could be wrong, but it certainly is a mystery.

By Chris Thomas on Saturday, July 22, 2000 - 01:33 am:

Maybe Khan blames Kirk for leaving him stranded on a deserted waste land of a planet - Kirk realises he's a madman and obviously blames anything that has gone wrong since their last meeting on Kirk himself.

By Matt Pesti on Tuesday, August 08, 2000 - 11:38 am:

According to the CUSTE, Slash fiction is named such because it's writers deserve enviseration.

By The Undesirable Element on Wednesday, August 09, 2000 - 02:12 pm:

I haven't seen "Space Seed" in a LOOONG time. Who was Khan's wife? I thought some lieutenant had an infatuation with Khan.

By Derf on Wednesday, August 09, 2000 - 08:40 pm:

Khan's wife was Lieutenant McGivers who was a historian on the original Enterprise. Why they needed one in the first place is another question. She remained on Ceti Alpha VI with Khan at the end of the show and became his wife. So now the Enterprise must rely on the library computer for historical information, such as Spock in STV, when he consults the computer on the rituals associated with "camping out".

By The Undesirable Element on Saturday, August 12, 2000 - 12:22 pm:

If Lt. McGivers (a member of the Federation) was stranded on Ceti Alpha V with Khan, wouldn't Lt. McGivers' family demand regular check ups on their progress to make sure that she wasn't dead?

By JamesB on Saturday, August 19, 2000 - 03:17 pm:

Bet Comissioner Nancy Hedford's folks feel exactly the same way...
Something occured to me the other day. You know the nit where Khan hauls Chekov off the floor, and then *hauls* him back down? It finally dawned on me that Khan was probably intending to show everyone what a total bada*s he was by scooping up Chevkov and then *slamming* him right into the ground. But, of course, Walter Koenig's trapeze harness (or whatever) wouldn't let him.

By Derf on Thursday, September 07, 2000 - 09:37 pm:

It's even a greater wonder that Khan remembered Chekov at all. (He must have been a VERY junior officer in the episode "Space Seed", and only passed Khan in a corridor on his way to Starship lessons.) It is also remarkable that the creature that Khan puts in the ears of Chekov and Terrell didn't kill more than 20 of his "people". In the 15 years that passed when Kirk "abandoned" Khan it means that, on average, approximately 1.25 "people" died as a result of the creature's clutches every year before the Reliant found them. It seems that the creature's ability to kill was greater than Khan's ability to stop it. (relatively speaking)

By Strgzr 47 on Wednesday, September 27, 2000 - 11:59 pm:

Perhaps Khan lost those 20 near the beginning of his stay on Ceti Alpha and then kept the eels as pets for many years. Also, perhaps when Kahn was reading tech journals in "Space Seed" he also read a photographic crew manifest, and rememberd Chekov from that.

By Wannabe Trek Writer on Saturday, September 30, 2000 - 01:58 pm:

Derf-

Well, there's no telling exactly when the Ceti Eels began killing the Botany Bay crew. Perhaps it was something that occurred many years after they were first deposited on the planet after the creatures' original hosts (whatever creature that may have been) died off. Or maybe it happened fairly soon and it didn't take long for Khan to capture a couple and keep them as pets.

A far more important question would be why he keeps them alive in the first place if they're so dangerous? Just in case someone happened to come down to visit them? And how exactly did Khan figure out that the creatures make their victims susceptible to suggestion if the only victims (excluding his wife) were "sworn to live and die by his command" over two hundred years ago?

By Adam Bomb on Wednesday, October 04, 2000 - 10:22 am:

My Uncle Jimmy died September 29, 2000. He was laid to rest yesterday (Oct. 3.) A bagpipe player was at the church and the grave, and played "Amazing Grace" at the gravesite. So now I will think of him every time I watch Spock's funeral. A fitting end for a good man. I can see why Harve Bennett insisted on the bagpipes, it is a very effective tribute.

By Derf on Friday, October 06, 2000 - 07:00 am:

Salute to Adam's uncle ...

There may have been other couples in Khan's crowd that may have noticed their partner acting strangely and reported it to Khan. (You know the routine - Khan slaps you, so you slap your significant other, then they slap the mind creature.)

By not Rene, never was Rene, never will be Rene, not that theres anything wrong with being Rene. on Sunday, February 04, 2001 - 06:09 pm:

Somebody questioned why Chekov is on the bridge, off the bridge, back on the bridge, and I wonder if that's necessarily a promotion/demotion. Maybe he's just substituting.
Somebody said Merritt Buttrick died of an alternative lifestyle.
No, he died of AIDS. The two aren't identical, equivalent, they don't go hand in hand. It's possible to have a heterosexual alternative lifestyle, such as living in an undersea habitat using geothermal energy for light and heat, and genetically engineered squid for pets, and having meals delivered via mini-sub. That would be *really* alternative.

By The spelling police on Monday, February 05, 2001 - 12:36 pm:

A gentle correction ... Merritt Butrick.

By Duke of Earl Grey on Tuesday, February 06, 2001 - 07:10 pm:

In the Nitpicker's Guide, Phil was dumping a bit on the genetic supermen for being checkers players, and commented that even Kirk plays 3D chess, which is presumably more challenging than 2D chess, which is more challenging than checkers (was that a run-on sentence?) Well, in my opinion, since the genetic supermen find chess to be too easy and boring, they found a way to spice it up. They use checkers as chess pieces, and have to remember which checkers represent which chess pieces. That would take some genetically-enhanced intelligence, I warrant.

By Wannabe Trek Writer on Wednesday, February 07, 2001 - 05:16 pm:

Along those same lines... All we saw was a Checkers board. That doesn't mean they were playing Checkers. They could have been playing other games (perhaps some they invented themselves) instead.

By Derf on Wednesday, February 07, 2001 - 05:58 pm:

The scene, however, clearly shows the game pieces on only one color of squares, indicating a checker-like game. (reducing its difficulty by a factor of two)

By Duke of Earl on Friday, February 09, 2001 - 05:55 pm:

Hmmm...that's very true. Those genetic supermen have let me down for the last time!

By Brian Lombard on Thursday, February 15, 2001 - 08:55 am:

As to why Khan keeps the eels around, when he knows how dangerours they are, food perhaps? They gotta eat something, and the planet sure doesn't look like it provides much. I hate to say it, but I bet those 20 people who died were probably used for food as well. Can you say Donner party?

By Adam Bomb on Thursday, February 15, 2001 - 07:53 pm:

Brian: I think you saw "Alive," "The Silence of the Lambs" or "Hannibal" too many times. The thought of cannibalism re: Khan never crossed my mind. Even so, how long would the flesh last? I think there were 73 (including Marla) left on Ceti Alpha V. How long could 20 corpses feed the remainder? Khan only gave credit to his "superior intellect" to enable his people to survive.

By Derf on Friday, February 16, 2001 - 11:57 pm:

Actually, Khan says "It was only the fact of my genetically molinear (or some word sounding like that) intellect that allowed us to survive." I've had trouble looking up the word molinear, but it sounds really smart!

By John A. Lang on Saturday, February 17, 2001 - 12:56 am:

He says, "genetically engineered intellect"

By Derf on Saturday, February 17, 2001 - 11:38 am:

Ricardo Montalban couldn't say "genetically engineered intellect" without it sounding like something else? It REALLY sounds like "genetically molinear intellect" when I play it back over and over and over. (I guess my ear hears it different) As we say on Earth, �cela vie�.

By Anonymous on Saturday, February 17, 2001 - 01:28 pm:

It's C'est La Vie"

By Derf on Sunday, February 18, 2001 - 07:15 am:

Thanks Anon, I had used the free translation website and typed in "that's life", and got as close as "cela vie", but going back to it and typing in "c'est la vie", the site translated it as "this is life". (which I'm embarrased to say I didn't try the first time)

By Adam Bomb on Monday, February 19, 2001 - 04:03 pm:

But Mr. Montalban can say "Corinthian Leather."
I haven't heard anything about his health lately. I had heard he had a problem walking a while back. Can anyone update?

By Christopher Mace on Thursday, February 22, 2001 - 04:39 am:

THANK YOU to Shira Karp [for her message above in 1999 about Khan's pendant]. I noticed that years ago, and I've NEVER seen any person/book/site pick up on this until now. It's my fave TOS nitpick and Shira deserves credit for putting it up.

On a different note, my fave TNG nit is why the Ent-E allows Worf's code to work in ST:FC. It's as if the ship counts Worf as an officer ASSIGNED to the ship.

By Adam Bomb on Thursday, February 22, 2001 - 04:49 pm:

Good point, Chris. I noticed that the pendant was too similar to the Starfleet belt buckles worn at the time. How DID Khan get it?

By Mr. Obvious on Tuesday, March 06, 2001 - 10:04 pm:

Khan attended a Star Trek Convention before being sent into space.

By floral sandbox on Monday, April 16, 2001 - 02:43 pm:

In the discussions for the Voy episode Q2, the subject of Romulan Ale came up. Kirk reads the label, "2283" and McCoy says it takes a while for the ale to age. I forget the exact wording. I looked at a few web sites and 2 years is about the limit.
So this movie could be in 2285.
The ale might have been confiscated from smugglers. Or ale is one of the few things they're allowed buy from the Romulans. Whoever obtained it must have put their own label and year on it since it's not likely the Romulans put the year 2283 on it. Or the Romulans do have a special ale marketed to the Federation with the Fed standard year. It's bought by Federation agents, they're allowed to; it's part of the agents' dealings with the Romulans. Like during the Cold War, US agents might have gone to Moscow for negotiations and espionage, and they might have bought lots of goodies for the folks back home.
It would be like a game--the Romulans know the Feds are sending spies, the Feds know they know, the Romulans try to prevent the Fed spies from finding out the wrong things, the Feds get on the Romulans' good side by buying lots of Romulan Ale and other stuff. Does that make sense?
There were some novels, by Diane Duane was it, about the Romulans? Does she deal with this Romulan ale business?

By aifix on Tuesday, April 17, 2001 - 09:34 am:

I had the impression from Kirk's reaction to drinking it that it had not aged enough, which may put a different spin on your assumptions.

By Derf on Tuesday, April 17, 2001 - 11:55 am:

Taken as true, the fact that the Rommulan Ale was considered "pretty old" for it to become fermented, makes the current date of the film the very late 23rd century. (let's assume 2296) Khan, when reminiscing about the glory days (just before putting the creatures into Chekov and Terrel's heads) says, "On Earth ... 200 years ago ... I was a prince ... with power over millions!
200 years prior to 2296 is 2096! Khan is trying to sound younger than he is ... 300 years ago would be 1996, the year he was put in cryogenic freeze and launched into space.

By floral sandbox ii: the wrath of nobody in particular. on Monday, April 23, 2001 - 08:40 pm:

One of the things I didn't like about ST II was they destroyed that society instead of showing what Khan's society would have been like after 20 years. And I would have wanted to see Khan's society encountering the TNG crew a hundred years later.
If anybody wants to do an alternate Trek story about that, go ahead!
I visited the Sam Adams website...they sell ale, and I told them about ST II and asked about ale, and I got a nice reply from a woman who explained that ale is beer from top fermenting yeast and only takes about 30 days to age--after 45 days it's called a Lager. Ale is better when it's not aged for long.
On the other hand, she states, in a sf movie
it's all up to the writers.
Oh, well. Nice of them to explain.

By Will S. on Tuesday, April 24, 2001 - 11:21 am:

Khan probably says '200 years ago' because when he was woken in Space Seed Kirk tells him he estimates he's been asleep for 2 centuries. Seems to me that while the series was in production they were obviously leaning towards a late 21st century timeline, rather than the 22nd one adapted later on.

By Derf on Tuesday, April 24, 2001 - 11:44 am:

Khan just never bothered to look at a calendar ... and Kirk getting his estimate wrong by 100 years could be considered a tactical move, if we want to imbue our brash captain with such mental abilities.

By Martin on Wednesday, May 02, 2001 - 11:56 am:

Did you know "Marcus" is a Jewish last name thus the fictional Character of Dr.Carol Marcus is Jewish, making her one of the few Jewish characters in Trek, as opposed to the many Jewish actors and actresses, thus that would make David Marcus half Jewish. And I believe Bibi Besch the actress who played Dr. Marcus is Jewish in real life, Im not sure. Glad to know in the 23rd and 24th centuries according to Trek Anti-semitism no longer exists, The Music at the beginning of the movie Star Trek II just before it says "In the 23rd century" reminds me of the Holocaust," it sounds sad

By Derf on Wednesday, May 02, 2001 - 08:22 pm:

Dr. McCoy was also assumed to be Southern ... due to his NAME. Dr. Carol Marcus displayed NO Jewish tentancies in ST2, then again, McCoy never displayed any Southern attributes until the creators wrote it into the script. If it was the creators intention to have her viewed as Jewish, I would think they'd have made a more overt attempt at it. (not knocking your musings, mind you, just noting the obvious)

By Brian Fitzgerald on Thursday, May 03, 2001 - 08:14 pm:

What would be Jewish tendancies. Since trek characters tend to not have religous beliefs what would she be, a steriotypical Jewish mother?

By Derf on Thursday, May 03, 2001 - 11:51 pm:

I only said "Jewish tendancies" because it sounded good ... I really have no idea what I was remarking on. (other than the fact that "Marcus" was assumed to be Jewish as "McCoy" was assumed to be Southern) I suppose that the phrase "Jewish tendancies" is a bit vague ... maybe I spoke too abruptly. I apologize to anyone who took that remark as gruff or pedantic.

By Martin on Friday, May 11, 2001 - 12:12 pm:

Is it just me or does the music at the beginning of Star Trek II remind anyone of the Holocaust, the music before it says "In the 23rd century"

By Derf on Friday, May 18, 2001 - 11:41 am:

An interesting observation:
In the episode "Amok Time", there is this statement ... the great Eel Birds of Regulus 5 must return to their hatching grounds every 11 years ... I know that alot of action happens on the planetoid actually called "Regula", but I wonder if they are not the same star system. How many stars are there on Federation charts with the same name, anyway?