When the landing party first beams over to the Botany Bay, Lt. McGivers states that sleeper ships were used until the year 2018, before the invention of warp drive. 2018? According to ST:FC,
warp drive was invented in 2063!

By Joe Griffin on Monday, October 19, 1998 - 12:52 pm:

And Zefram Cochrane was from Alpha Cantauri in TOS as well.
The First Contact people didn't really do their research, did they?

By Anonymous on Monday, October 26, 1998 - 04:27 pm:

Well, according to the "Offical" Trek Encyclopedia, Cochrane was from Earth and moved to Alpha Centauri later in life..

By Chris Thomas on Saturday, November 14, 1998 - 02:05 am:

Wasn't Khan supposedly genetically engineered in the 1990s? How do we reconcile the fact the 90s are here now and, although making progress in this area, humans can't be made this way?
What happens when real time catches up with the future history in Trek?

By Tony Joe on Saturday, November 14, 1998 - 06:36 pm:

Seems to me it's too late, particularly in Khan's case. If he was present during the 1990's, he must have been created in the '60s; he was at least 30.

By Brian Henley on Sunday, November 15, 1998 - 01:37 pm:

It's really keeping me up nights, ya know? Every day I check the news praying that the Eugenics Wars won't start. Nothing on CNN so far, but the 90's aren't over yet! I'll breathe a little easier when next year is over. Then we'll just have to worry about little stuff like the Y2K bug.

By Mf on Tuesday, November 24, 1998 - 01:52 pm:

Breathe easy, Brian. The Eugenics wars were over by the time Khan & Co. left Earth - - which according to ST II was 1996.

Interestingly, McCoy says Khan's age was right for genetic engineering. As someone above noted, he'd have been created in the 60's, at the time the episode was written! Perhaps in the future they discover secret experiments conducted in the 60's. Stuff we don't know about yet.

By Anonymous on Friday, February 26, 1999 - 08:25 pm:

The truth is out there!

By Kail on Saturday, February 27, 1999 - 12:07 pm:

You fools! Don't you recognize an alternate timeline when you see one? Ever since that bum in 'City on the Edge of Forever' vaporized himself, the Earth has run a different course in time then the one that spawned the Eugenics war, and later the Federation. It's all so simple.

By Adam Howarter on Saturday, February 27, 1999 - 05:11 pm:

What are you guys talking about? I remember the eugenics war like it was yesterday. Sure it only took a day from start to finish, but I'm sure that day will go down as the bloodiest in history. You guys probably don't remember it because....errr....it was the same day as a Trek marathon on your local station. Yeah, thats it. That works.
No? Your not buying that? Ok. How about that was the day they were covering the government shut down. You remember, Al Gore was busy lying about how Republicans what to "starve children and throw old people out on the street."

By Kato on Sunday, February 28, 1999 - 10:04 pm:

The Eugenics War must have taken place during the OJ Simpson trial.

By MikeC on Saturday, January 16, 1999 - 04:05 pm:

GUEST STAR PATROL
Gee, who knew that Ricardo Montalban (Khan) was Mr. Rourke on "Fantasy Island", among many other things?

By Donnysan on Saturday, January 16, 1999 - 05:18 pm:

Kahn for your local CHRYSLER dealer:

"Rrrich Corrrrrrrrrinthian Leathoorrrr!!!"

By Anonymous on Sunday, January 17, 1999 - 12:44 am:

It would have been cool to have Tattoo in STII:TWOK, wouldn't it? Or maybe a Corinthian Leather joke...

By Nat Hefferman on Wednesday, January 27, 1999 - 12:58 pm:

Either McGivers didn't do her homework, or the Eugenics wars wiped out a lot of Earth's cultural records. She identifies Khan as being "from northern India, probably a Sikh." Sikh men are forbidden to cut their hair or beards, and Khan is clean-shaven. (Maybe he's an agnostic Sikh.)

By Hans Thielman on Friday, January 29, 1999 - 01:06 pm:

Lt. McGivers should be a fountain of knowlege concerning the Gulf War, the O.J. Simpson trial, the Jon Bonet Ramsey case, the Spice Girls, the Oklahoma City bombing of 1995, Waco, and the impeachment trial of President Clinton.

By Rene on Friday, January 29, 1999 - 09:41 pm:

Well, she was an expert on 20th century Earth,
wasn't she? Anyway, why haven't we ever encountered someone on Star Trek who's interested
in the 21rst or 22nd centuries?

By BrianB on Tuesday, April 06, 1999 - 10:48 pm:

In response to ALL OF THE ABOVE:
No, the FC people didn't do their homework well. Rick Berman (Dick Vermin, as I call him) dances to his own tune. They never should've gotten rid of Richard Arnold, Roddenberry's right-hand man who kept much of the continuity together. Tom Paris & Marla (what's she doing with that thing?) McGyvers were made for each other. Alas, Tommy Boy was born a century too late. Either the 21st-22nd centuries were completely uneventful, or no one has made a Star Trek Chapter One. :) Everyone should should know of the Eugenics War, we won!!

By ScottN on Wednesday, April 07, 1999 - 10:45 am:

Actually, according to DS9:Past Tense, Sisko is kind of an expert on 21st Century America...
I must say, though, that the SF shown in 2024 didn't show any signs of Eugenics War damage.

By Ryan Smith on Friday, April 09, 1999 - 09:24 pm:

Yeah, well, the Los Angeles of "Future's End, Parts I and II" [VGR] didn't show any Eugenics War damage either, and those episodes took place in 1996, supposedly at the end of the conflict.

By BrianB on Saturday, April 10, 1999 - 04:07 am:

I know, we won!! (toungue-in-cheek)

By Mr Blu on Monday, April 12, 1999 - 11:51 pm:

GUEST STAR PATROL
ricardo Montalban is guest host on the chihuahua's
new Taco Bell commercial.(oh , btw, the rich corinthihan leather in my cordoba feels suspiciosly like vinyl, hmmmmmmmmmmm)

By Keith Alan Morgan on Thursday, April 15, 1999 - 06:58 am:

Contact Temporal Investigations! This episode clearly shows an altered history with The Next Generation! While talking about the Eugenics wars of the mid 1990's it is stated that this was the last of Earth's World Wars, but in the NextGen episode Encounter At Farpoint, World War III occurred in the mid 21st century.

Why would a Starship need a 20th century historian aboard?

How exactly is cryonics different than these sleeper ships? (Besides one being used for the dead and one for the living, of course.) In The Neutral Zone Dr. Crusher dismissed Cryonics as a fad, but these sleeper ships were used until the year 2018.

Kirk tells Khan that they estimate he and his people have been asleep for around 2 centuries. Well, then Kirk must have flunked math. At this point in the show they think the ship was launched somewhere between 1990 and 2018, which means the year is somewhere around 2190 and 2218 and yet the official reference states that the year should be 2266.

Spock says that some 80 or 90 supermen were unaccounted for. I realize that the records were spotty, but isn't Spock usually a bit more accurate in his estimates?

Khan's adjustment of McGiver's hair didn't really change much, did it?

Why was Khan wearing a red uniform and how did he get it? (Compare to Data's statement to Lore in Datalore about earning the uniform.)

When Khan crushes Kirk's phaser, it appears that just the pistol grip is damaged. Couldn't Kirk pull off the little phaser mounted on top and blast Khan?

If Khan would rather reign in Hell than serve in Heaven, then why did he flee the Earth? Shouldn't he be one of those who would rather stay and fight?

Was I the only one who thought Kirk and company were more than a little too friendly to someone who behaved as badly as Khan, even before they knew who he was?

So Khan and his supermen were left on Ceti Alpha V. Could they possibly mean Alpha Ceti V? That would make more sense because astronomers usually put Greek letters before the constellation name, but then Star Trek loves to mess around with Greek letters, i.e., Tau Alpha C, Omicron Theta. The original reason for using Greek letters was to indicate the brightest stars in a constellation, with Alpha being the brightest.

By Ed Jefferson (Ejefferson) on Thursday, April 15, 1999 - 01:06 pm:

Don't waste the TI's time trying to find that out. As I seem to remember Phil points out, the Eugenics War might not have been a World War, or just not classified as that for some reason.

A bigger problem is that when Voyager visits 1996, they find no sign of a war, and in fact everything looks pretty much like it does now.

Actually, the dating of the wars to 1990s, although it may seem nieve now, might not be that far off, what with Dolly the sheep and those tomatoes!

By Charles Cabe (Ccabe) on Thursday, April 15, 1999 - 01:50 pm:

The Korean War, Vietnam War, and Desert Storm all involved the Old United Nations (100+ countries) yet they are not World Wars. I assume the Eugenics War is considered similarly. BTW, The Vietnam war lasted longer than WWII.

By Keith Alan Morgan on Friday, April 16, 1999 - 04:10 am:

Dialogue in this episode says that the Eugenics War was the last of Earth's World Wars.
Dialogue in Encounter At Farpoint says that World War III occured in the mid 21st century.
I would say that this is a Changed Premise.

By Charles Cabe (Ccabe) on Friday, April 16, 1999 - 02:39 pm:

Okay, it has been a long time since I saw the episode. Sorry.

By Todd Pence on Tuesday, April 20, 1999 - 08:24 pm:

I wonder how McGivers would rate Kirk's performance as a member of the landing party in "The City on the Edge of Forever" and "Requeim for Methuselah"?

By MattS on Thursday, May 13, 1999 - 12:26 pm:

As pointed out in the Star Trek Compendium, McCoy keeps grabbing at the phaser that Kirk knocks to the floor accidentally while pulling Kahn out of his compartment. This is hilarious! I guess they didn't want to do another take? (Shatner broke the glass already.)

Some of the crew don't wear their dress uniforms to dinner with Kahn.

Kirk's stunt double in the fight with Kahn doesn't look much like him at all.

The object that Kirk beats Kahn with is obviously not very heavy.

By MattS on Thursday, May 13, 1999 - 12:29 pm:

One more comment: Khan is from India, yet has a Latin-American accent (okay, it's a cheap shot).

By Mark Bowman on Wednesday, May 19, 1999 - 08:19 pm:

Hmmm. shouldn't the displays of our
computers consist of little light bulbs
and make mechanical ticking sound (not
ths ound of the hard drive, more like
the printer of an adding machine).

Yeah, I know about Futures End, but apparently
the episode about HJaneway's ancestor and the fact
the captain of the time ship once again remembers
being trapped back in the 20th century removes
the possibility that computer technology
reverted once the explosion was prevented.

By gijjiy on Tuesday, May 25, 1999 - 03:46 pm:

My God, son, find a girlfriend.

By Padawan Nitpicker on Sunday, October 24, 1999 - 08:25 am:

Someone said that the "Rodent" vaporizing himslef caused the change in the timeline on the City On the Edge Of Forever board. Whoever it is, alert me. That explains EVERYTHING! It explains Khan`s line about the Eugenics Wars being 200 instead of over 250 years before in Space Seed. it explains the World War III nit. It explains Future`s End.

By Mark Swinton on Sunday, November 07, 1999 - 03:03 pm:

Actually, BrainB, there is A Star Trek: Year One serial novel currently published in the back of various Pocket Books adventures. Can't say much about how canonical it is, although it opens with an intriguing battle between the starship ESSEX and the Romulans...

By Padawan Nitpicker on Friday, December 31, 1999 - 01:26 pm:

And so, as the 1990s draw to a close, the Eugenics Wars have never happened, and instead are a few squabbles about Genetically Modified Food.

By Chris Booton (Cbooton) on Friday, December 31, 1999 - 08:40 pm:

I remember once hearing about some work places would ask for a sample for DNA from someone and if in that DNA they found a mmarker for a disease that the person may get 50 years from now they may refuse to hire them based on that! I remember them refering to this as Eugenics. I know it has nothing to do with Eugenics was but still they name being the same is interesting. I remember how a few years ago this type of thing happening was a major issue or at least an issue of importance.

By Padawan Nitpicker on Saturday, January 01, 2000 - 02:02 pm:

It`s a CONSPIRACY!

By Christer Nyberg on Sunday, March 26, 2000 - 07:24 am:

Why is Leslie (who goes under his nickname "Thule" in this episode) invited to Khan's dinner?

By John A. Lang on Friday, May 26, 2000 - 09:10 pm:

LOVELY MOMENT:

The footage of the Enterprise
flying side by side the Botany Bay

Flawlessly done!

By John A.Lang on Saturday, May 27, 2000 - 02:35 am:

The bust of Caesar in McGivers' room is from Trelane's castle from "The Squire of Gothos"

By Kail on Saturday, May 27, 2000 - 08:59 am:

I always loved McGivers' bust.

By Charles Cabe (Ccabe) on Saturday, May 27, 2000 - 11:59 am:

Are you sure you don't wan't to rephrase that, laddie?

By Laddie on Sunday, May 28, 2000 - 05:00 am:

Let go of McGivers' bust, Timmie's trapped in the well!

By John A. Lang on Thursday, June 01, 2000 - 01:01 am:

Odd moment:

After Khan states to McCoy that he has many questions, McCoy walks up to a wall panel and Kirk replies, "Kirk here"

McCoy never says, "McCoy to Bridge" or
"Sickbay to Bridge"

That wall panel must have a direct link to the Bridge for Kirk to reply like that....all the other wall panels we've seen someone has to say,
"(Name) to (Location / person ) Acknowledge."

By John A. Lang on Wednesday, December 27, 2000 - 02:27 pm:

DVD version....."Lovely Moment"....pt.2

What makes the shot of the Enterprise & the Botany Bay so good is that you can see the SHADOW of the Botany bay pass by the Engineering section of the Enterprise as she rendezvous with it.

This would be repeated again in a simular fashion in STII as the Reliant passes over the Enterprise and casts a shadow over the saucer section

By ScottN on Wednesday, December 27, 2000 - 03:25 pm:

John, that sort of shot is actually harder to do today than back in the '60s. Back then, it was done with miniatures/models so that the lighting/shadows would always be there. Nowadays, they use CGI, so someone has to remember to do it.

By Nove on Saturday, January 13, 2001 - 01:29 am:

Khan says to Kirk that there has been technological advancement, but "how little man himself has changed." Later, he says, "Nothing ever changes...except man." That sounds contradictory to me, plus I don't know what it means.
About the changed timeline: Does the altered timeline caused by McCoy in "City on the Edge..." still exist in some fashion? Maybe this could be the origin of the Mirror Universe.

By Derf on Wednesday, March 14, 2001 - 11:32 am:

Phil states in his Nitpicker's Guide that Botany Bay was the site of a penal institution. But I own a CD of Irish drinking songs (that time of year to drag them out) with one of the songs titled "Botany Bay". The chorus goes (as best as I can translate the thick Irish accents):

Farewell to your bricks and mortar,
Farewell to your dirt and lime.
Farewell to your gangways and your gangplanks
And to h*ll with your overtime.
The good ship Rag-a-muffin
Is lying at the cape.
For to take 'ole Pat with a shovel on his back
To the shores of Botany Bay.

It sounds as though Botany Bay was also the site of a Gold Rush. (according to this song)

By John A. Lang on Friday, March 23, 2001 - 12:49 pm:

There's some chunks of unidentified rubbish on the floor in the Court Room at the end of the episode...GET A BROOM!

The Helmsman...Lt. Spinelli [Nav] must have a twin brother named Lt. Singh from "The Changling"..the resemblence is uncanny.
[Hmmm...I wonder why]

GREAT MOMENT:

Khan grabs Kirk's phasor and bends it out of shape with his bare hands....BRRRRR!!!!!!!

By John A. Lang on Friday, March 30, 2001 - 02:33 am:

The end credits person obviously was NOT a product of 20th century genetic engineering...he/she misspelled "SCPIPT SUPERVISOR" AGAIN!!!!!!!

By Mitch on Saturday, March 31, 2001 - 01:17 pm:

I love the movie Star Trek II the Wrath of Khan, but I would like to say that from my knowledge of Star Trek, and the Star Trek Encylopedia that in all 4 series and some of the movies there have been several Jewish characters in Trek and Starfleet ,though none of them religious, . I know this from their last names, for example in Trek there have been some Kaplan's , Admiral Pressman, William Samuels of the Maquis, Captain Rifkin on DS9 , Dr Carol Marcus and her son David, Dr Epstein of TNG. As I said although It doesn't say in the Episodes/movies that these and other characters are Jewish by the last names its a safe presummption as assuming a person is Italian from the last name Rizzuto.
So yes there have been a few Jewish characters in Trek, in addition to the many talented Jewish actors and actresses, for example William Shatner the actor is Jewish but the Character of Captain James T.Kirk is not.
And in the Eugenics Wars of 1992-1996 do you think Khan would have attacked the State of Israel,we know from Trek history Khan controlled 1/4 of the planet from SouthAsia to the MiddleEast but do you think Khan would have succeded in conquering Israel? Was Khan an anti-semite, remember in real life Israel had nuclear weapons since the early 1960's and could have destroyed all of Iraq in the gulf war of 1991 and today Israel has the 4th most powerful military in the World

By Anonymous on Saturday, March 31, 2001 - 04:00 pm:

Who gives a hoot if Khan was anti-semite! (thats like asking if Spock was anti-gay!)

By Mike on Sunday, April 01, 2001 - 03:47 pm:

I think after the "alternate" timeline in the Voyager Episodes "Future's End" part 1 and 2 the Eugenics Wars might still have taken place. It was from SouthAsia to the MiddleEast , no fighting took place on American soil. Also in 1943 if you were in San Francisco you couldn't tell a Global War was going on from the damage cause no fighting took place in World War II in San Francisco in 1943. Plus in those two Voyager episodes I mentioned I believe when they went back to San Francisco 1996 in the background a picture of a Botany Bay type of ship was shown.

By Anonymous on Monday, April 02, 2001 - 05:48 pm:

He could have attacked Isreal and not been a anti-semite if is his only goal was to achieve power. He could have no problems with Jews but needed to control their land and conqueored them.

By margie on Thursday, May 03, 2001 - 12:37 pm:

Only saw the last 10 minutes of this yesterday on Sci-Fi (darned traffic!). Is that a wig on Khan, or his real hair? It looked awfully fake to me.

By John A. Lang on Wednesday, May 30, 2001 - 09:59 pm:

It might of been a wig...however, in STII, that's Monatablan's REAL chest that is exposed! (He talked about the movie with a female news commentator and she was smiling broadly when Monatalban said, "Yes, that was my real chest")

By ScottN on Wednesday, May 30, 2001 - 10:32 pm:

Nimoy also said that it was Montalban's real pecs.

By LUIGI NOVI on Wednesday, May 30, 2001 - 11:00 pm:

Phil, from his TOS Guide: PO#6: After Khan shuts off life support on the bridge, Kirk makes a log entry recommending commendations for five of the seven crew members on the bridge. Why not the other two?
I don�t see why Kirk should, Phil. Do you know those two officers personally? How is this a plot oversight? Is there a rule that states that when you�re an officer and about to die, you should give out rewards to all those serving beneath you just for the hell of it, for absolutely no reason other than sentimentality? Obviously, Kirk didn�t feel those officers merited them, either because they were newly transferred to the ship, or because Kirk hadn�t worked closely with them, or because they just plain hadn�t distinguished themselves as officers. Do you have personal knowledge of their service records? This implies that either the screenwriter miswrote, or that the guy in charge of extras put too many people on the bridge. This is not necessarily the case. You give out commendations based on merit, not based on the sentimentality you feel when you�re about to die.

CP#1: The Eugenics Wars occurred in the late twentieth century, and World War III in the mid-twenty-first. Shouldn�t The latter, therefore, be called World War IV?
Keep in mind, Phil, that reporters and historians use the word "war" somewhat loosely.. The term "World War" itself wasn�t coined by a political or military leader or historian. It was coined by a reporter, and not during the first one, but during the second one, since the first was known as "the war to end all wars," since they never thought there would be others like it. And we refer to the conflict in Vietnam as "The Vietnam War," even though Congress never officially declared war there. It was officially a police action.

Cool. Did they have nicknames for each other, like "Goose" and "Iceman"?
Khan Noonien Singh was named after Kim Noonien Singh, a lieutenant that Gene Roddenberry met while a B-17 bomber pilot during World War II.
Hope she only uses red
Before being called to join the away team, McGivers is in her quarters, about to work on a painting, which means she�s off duty. So why is she about to put on her smock over her uniform, rather than her civilian clothes? Even with the smock, the uniform could still get dirty.
He was trying to get to the Band Aids inside the chamber
Good thing Kirk didn�t cut his hand on any of that glass he broke when reviving Khan in the beginning of the episode. (Good thing it was breakaway glass!)
Well, the co-pilot of the Millennium Falcon is named "Chewey," and HE doesn�t look Mexican!
"Khan" is a Chinese name. "Singh" is Indian, and McGivers said Khan appeared to be northern Indian when first seeing him in suspended animation, and painted him wearing a turban, possibly from some reference in which he wore it. So why is he played by a Mexican? (Not that I�m complaining, mind you. Ricardo Montalban is EXCELLENT in this role!)
Hey, it was the 60s, man! NO ONE knew where or when they were!
As with the similar nit in Tomorrow is Yesterday, when Khan first wakes up, Kirk tells him they estimate he�s been asleep for two centuries, instead of three, since the creators didn�t finalize at this point that the show was set 300 years in the future. By the way, I posted on the Tomorrow is Yesterday board that only that episode and The Squire of Gothos contradict that TOS is set 300 years in the future. I forgot about this one.
Apparenlty, Shatner and Montalban were busy doing an interview on the difficulty of doing fight scenes
The fight scene between Kirk and Khan at the end of the episode is terribly edited. The director makes no attempt to hide the stuntmen�s faces. The part where Khan lunges at Kirk, and Kirk flips him over his back, then punches him, shows with hillarious clarity that the men are not Shatner and Montalban.


BrianB: They never should've gotten rid of Richard Arnold, Roddenberry's right-hand man who kept much of the continuity together.

Luigi Novi: Richard Arnold is a condescending jerk who talked way too much $HIT, and actually would've vetoed Peter David's Vendetta novel, because, according to him, there are no females in the Borg (He misinterpreted Q's line in Q Who(TNG)). He also poisoned Gene Roddenberry's attitude toward Peter, and given his condescending, insulting attitude towards some of the letter writers in the Star Trek Communicator, I personally believe it. As for his expertise in continuity, I could give you a list of Richard's maladroidtness in this area. I'm glad he's gone from Trek production.

KAM: Why would a Starship need a 20th century historian aboard?

Luigi Novi: The Enterprise is a ship of exploration and science, and there's going to be lots of intellectuals on board. Scientists, archaeologists, paleontologists, anthropologists, historians, geologists, etc. They help provide insight when the crew discover a new race, lifeform or artifact. Some of them may lobby for specific study missions on ships when writing papers, or researching for books or articles, etc. She may even have knowledge of other subjects aside from the 20th century, and could be a crewman in some area, and just happens to have an interest in that area. It could be like saying, "Why would a Starship need someone who knows how to paint on board?"

Mike: I believe in Future's End part I in the background of Rain Robinson's office, a picture of a Botany Bay type of ship was shown.

Luigi Novi: It was a model, actually. And there was also a small bust of a Talosian.

By Merat on Thursday, May 31, 2001 - 06:23 am:

A bust of a Talosian? I thought that those were taped up for the show....

By John A. Lang on Thursday, May 31, 2001 - 07:37 pm:

Portions of the Enterprise are transparent at the very start of this episode. (Saucer section)

Why isn't there an emergency exit from the Bridge?

Khan sure ain't very smart...he sets the ship for autodestruct...with him still on board...doesn't he realize if the ship blows, he'll go up with it? Kirk is just as dumb...he actually tries to undo Khan's work instead of confronting him by saying, "If the ship goes kablooey, you go kablooey too."

GREAT MOMENT....When Khan excapes from the briefing room, you see Kirk...not walking, not strolling, not jogging, but RUNNING AT BREAKNECK SPEED from one place to another.

This type of running seems to be missing from other "Trek" incarnations.

By LUIGI, the Boob Tube Watcher on Thursday, May 31, 2001 - 11:19 pm:

Good one, Merat!

By Merat on Friday, June 01, 2001 - 12:56 am:

I know what you mean, John.

O'Brien: "Ops to Commander Sisko, we have 12 really big and nasty looking ships up here and they want to talk to you about surrendering."
Sisko: "On my way, chief!" (Strolls out)

Kim: "Captain, something big and mean is headed this way."
Janeway: "Stroll for it!"


Thanks, Luigi, but I really should get my mind out of that gutter sometime soon....

By LUIGI NOVI on Friday, June 01, 2001 - 02:21 am:

No, don't! It's lonely in here! I need the company! Accept your gutter-ness, I say!

By KAM on Friday, June 01, 2001 - 06:21 am:

First off, Luigi, I think you are far more likely to find painters on board the Enterprise than 20th Century Historians. Painting is a widespread hobby done by people in a variety of fields. Historian implies someone who has a college degree, or has spent considerable time obsessively studying the subject.

Secondly, If NASA made a spaceship capable of holding 400 people and sent them out to explore, would they make certain to include a 17th (or 18th) Century Historian?

IIRC Kirk specifically asked for the 20th Century Historian. To me that sounded like an Enterprise job description, not a hobbyist or someone with a minor in 20th Century History.
If Kirk had said, "Get someone with expertise on 20th century history." That would have been different as I wouldn't have infered it as a job on the enterprise.

I haven't seen this ep for several years so I don't remember the exact dialogue, but IIRC Kirk asks for a historian, indicating just one. What are the odds that they would just happen to have 1 20th Century Historian on board?
Also how did Kirk know this? Did he hit on her and she bored him with mindless trivia? ("Some say T.J. Hooker was his best work, but I like The Barbary Coast. You look an awful lot like him, you know that?")

Why did Kirk ask for someone with a general knowledge of the 20th Century instead of specific knowledge of early Earth spacecraft?
Why didn't he ask for a 21st Century Historian as well as a 20th Century Historian?

By Merat on Friday, June 01, 2001 - 06:41 am:

Gee, I HOPE that there are Medival Historians on the ship who, unlike Sulu who only did it once, run around this ship with sabres trying to resuce fair maidens from the vile clutches of food dispensers! That would be neat to see. However, I hope (somewhat unrealistically) that the new show, Enterprise, has people who are more versed in eighteenth, seventeenth, etc... historians and who just have a passing interest in the 20th century. However, I DO understand why there are always 20th century buffs on board. The 20th Century was when multimedia and detailed notes really became very common....

By Merat on Friday, June 01, 2001 - 06:44 am:

KAM:
"Why did Kirk ask for someone with a general knowledge of the 20th Century instead of specific knowledge of early Earth spacecraft?
Why didn't he ask for a 21st Century Historian as well as a 20th Century Historian?"

He didn't ask for them because their names are Robert and Sven, neither of whom are as attractive as MacGuyver, though Sven seems to think he is....

I know it would be anachronistic, but wouldn't it be fun if MacGuyver escaped Khan, aided only by a few paper clips and a stylus?

By RevdKathy on Sunday, July 08, 2001 - 01:20 pm:

Am I the only one who really really really wanted to see McGiver whallop Khan in that "Stay or Go" scene?? He crushes her hand and forces her to her knees. I'd have kicked him in his genetically enhanced deleted for reasons of decency!!!

And she puts up with it because she Lurves him. YUK!

By Sven of Nine on Sunday, July 08, 2001 - 03:25 pm:

Love, like vomitus, moves in mysterious ways...

By ryanw on Sunday, August 19, 2001 - 02:58 am:

Is it just me, or at the beginning of this episode, when they go to red alert, it seems like there were a couple of crewmen that were just standing inside the turbolift that came out instantly. I thought this seemed a little odd.

By Derf on Tuesday, August 21, 2001 - 08:33 am:

As I posted earlier in the ST-2 thread, there is an old Irish Drinking Song titled "Botany Bay" that I've finally wrung the words out to from a CD by The Four Leaf Clovers (with their thick Irish accents)

(Chorus)
Farewell to your bricks and mortar,
Farewell to your dirt and lime.
Farewell to your gangways and your gangplanks
And to hell with your overtime.
Oh, the good ship Rag-a-muffin
Is lying at the quay.
For to take 'ole Pat with a shovel on his back
To the shores of Botany Bay.

I�m on me way down to the quay
Where the good ship lies at bay.
To command the gang of navvies
I was told to engage.
I just stepped in to drink awhile
I thought it was okay.
�Fore to take a trip on an emigrant ship
To the shores of Botany Bay.

Chorus

The Bowman called this morning,
He said �Well, Pat you know,
If you didn�t get that navvie help
I�m afraid you�ll have to go.�
I asked him for me wages,
He said to go away.
So I told him straight we would emigrate
To the shores of Botany Bay.

Chorus

And when we reach Australia
We�ll go and dig for gold.
There�s plenty there for digging
Or for so I have been told.
And if I take a notion,
I�ll go back to the sea.
For to take �ole Pat with a shovel on his back
To the shores of Botany Bay.

Chorus

This tune makes one believe that "Botany Bay" was a preferred destination for many emmigrants/gold-diggers years before it became a harbor for criminals, as alluded to by the ship's name and Phil's comments in his Nitpicker's Guide. Perhaps this is what disarmed Kirk into thinking he could let Khan view the ship's records. (rather than MIS-trust him due to the name of the derelict ship)

By John A. Lang on Monday, September 10, 2001 - 07:31 pm:

After Kirk figures out who Khan was in the briefing room, he orders Khan's quarters to have a guard posted outside them. Uh...wouldn't sending Khan to the the BRIG be better?

Uhura disappears from the court room before everyone else does...& there's no door swish. (I'm certain of Uhura's disappearance this time)

Mr. Kyle is the transporter technician that Khan knocks out....yet he isn't called Mr. Kyle, he's identified as "transporter technician" I guess they're STILL having problems naming this guy.

I must note that Mr. Kyle ALSO appears on the Reliant Bridge in STII as the transporter technician.

By Benn on Monday, September 10, 2001 - 09:42 pm:

I thought Commander Kyle was Reliant's Communications Officer. He certainly did seem to have that function.

By John A. Lang on Tuesday, September 11, 2001 - 12:08 am:

OOPS, you're right. I just looked in my ST-Encyclopedia and he was the communications officer. I musta had "transporter technician" stuck in my brain.

By Smart Alec on Tuesday, September 11, 2001 - 02:45 am:

Well, that does explain why on another board you wrote that a miniskirt was so short you 'could see her transporter technician.'

By D.K. Henderson on Thursday, November 29, 2001 - 06:49 am:

GREAT MOMENT...when Khan grabs McCoy in sickbay and McCoy icily gives him instructions as to the most efficient way to cut his throat.

By Adam Bomb on Thursday, November 29, 2001 - 07:40 am:

Madlyn Rhue (Lt. Marla McGivers) is currently afflicted with multiple sclerosis. I know she has kept up her acting career, despite her affliction. Other victims of MS are Montel Williams, Annette Funicello and Fox News business correspondent Neil Cavuto.

By Dan Gunther on Wednesday, December 05, 2001 - 09:44 am:

On a side note: I wonder if the "Bontany Bay" was "bought on e-bay"??? I'm sorry, that was bad. :-)

By D.K. Henderson on Thursday, December 06, 2001 - 06:50 am:

The actor who played Squiggy also has it. We have a book at our library written by him, concerning his decision to hide his illness for a time. Apparently at some point in his career, he had gone to audition for a part in a play, and heard the receptionist telling an actor over the phone that the part had been filled. As he was getting up to leave, the receptionist told him to stay, and explained that she had lied to the other actor because he had MS and therefore would not be considered for the role. Sad, isn't it?

By ScottN on Monday, February 18, 2002 - 07:47 pm:

Two nits.

1) When Khan's henchman (Joachim?) slaps Uhura to make her turn on the screen, the slap is obviously fake. She reacts before he slaps her.

2) When Khan turns of life support, why does Spock lose consciousness before Kirk? Vulcan has a thinner atmosphere with a lower oxygen content than Earth. (Yes, I know, this was established *NEXT* season).

By John A. Lang on Tuesday, February 19, 2002 - 04:06 pm:

ScottN: The slap given by Joachim was a genetically engineered slap...you react before the actual physical contact occurs!

NOW THAT IS A SLAP!

By KAM on Wednesday, February 20, 2002 - 02:08 am:

It's known as the Mrs. Peel Effect. The built-up air pressure in front of the hand hits the person before the hand does.

By John A. Lang on Friday, March 22, 2002 - 08:40 pm:

Why did Kirk post only ONE GUARD outside Khan's quarters? Didn't he figure on an attempted escape?

By CornPone on Wednesday, April 24, 2002 - 11:00 am:

If anyone has read the books, do you think the Eugenics Wars nit is explained away from this episode?

By Will on Tuesday, May 21, 2002 - 11:11 am:

Gotta wonder how Kirk, McCoy, and Scotty could feel any kind of respect for a ruthless dictator. Makes you wonder what they might think about Sadam, and Hitler, and Khadafee (or however that guy's name is spelt.)
My compliments to Scotty; he stares at a wall with blinking lights and can see the transister units inside.
The engineering deck not only underwent numerous changes, such as the stairs to separate the main consoles, plus that dilithium chamber in the center of the room, but also they knocked out a wall outside the door. It was established in later episodes that a corridor runs straight out that door.
One of my favorite fight scenes in the entire series; Kirk Vs.Khan.

By Kerriem (Kerriem) on Tuesday, May 21, 2002 - 01:56 pm:

Gotta wonder how Kirk, McCoy, and Scotty could feel any kind of respect for a ruthless dictator.

Welllll...not to sound too much the apologist here, but...I don't remember if we're given any details in the ep, but there are degrees of ruthlessness as in everything else. It's possible Khan simply didn't commit the type of atrocities Hitler etc. do/did.
(And for Scotty at least, the whole 'ruthless dictator' thing is more or less a cultural heritage, however ancient.)

It might also be worth remembering that in Trek chronology there're at least a couple Earth-shaking wars between the 20th and 23rd-centuries.
The pertinent historical records could have been lost/destroyed/otherwise permanently altered by the time Kirk gets a look at them (indeed, given the liberties the Captain grants Khan, I'd think they'd almost have to be).

By Andy H. on Saturday, June 01, 2002 - 11:24 am:

Equipment Oddity: Could somebody please tell me precisely what that tube-like thing was that Kirk used to bludgeon Khan into submission to win their climactic fight in Engineering? I don't remember ever seeing a row of handles (let alone handles attached to hollow tubes that are themselves attached to nothing) set into the "machinery" along that wall of engineering, in any other episode. Sure came in handy, though.

By Anonymous on Sunday, June 02, 2002 - 02:58 am:

Maybe its as my dad called it a torque multiplier for those really hard to turn bolts. BTW are you the Andy H with the Forgotten Ohio Website?

By Sophie Hawksworth on Sunday, June 02, 2002 - 09:30 am:

Sometimes you can pull the knob of a piece of kit and it has a long shaft attached because the actual control is not right behind the front panel. Could this be what we're seeing here?

By Andy H. on Monday, June 03, 2002 - 08:56 pm:

In reply to Anonymous... I'm not that Andy H, but I am a big, big fan of the forgotten-ny site (I'm from one of the blue states).

By Anonymous on Monday, June 03, 2002 - 09:06 pm:

Cool. I love urban exploration. I'm from kentucky just across from ohio so i have the best of both worlds.

By BrianB on Wednesday, July 17, 2002 - 11:14 am:

Khan in Marla McGyver's quarters pulls the cover off the painting to reveal the portrait of him as an Indian Sikh. This means McGyver is a "Khan Artist"! Nyuk Nyuk!

By King Mob on Thursday, July 25, 2002 - 03:50 am:

How could they admire him?

He had a "Khan" do attitude to life!

'Ducks and covers'.

By ScottN on Thursday, July 25, 2002 - 10:04 am:

Could have been worse... He could have been a "Khan-gressman".

By King Mob on Friday, July 26, 2002 - 02:34 pm:

He had chutzphah, sheer Khan!
He often worked alone, Khan Solo!
He was a straight talker, no "Khan"fusion!
His love for Marla McGivers was un"Khan"ditional.

But was his outfit in TWOK, Corinthi"Khan" leather?

By ScottN on Friday, July 26, 2002 - 04:43 pm:

No, but he was a tiger... Shere Khan!

By King Mob on Saturday, July 27, 2002 - 03:35 am:

LOL!

He had a great singing voice, like a "Khan"ary
An expert card player, especially "Khan"asta.

Sammy Davis jnr sang a song about him, 'The "Khan"dyman'

By Will on Tuesday, July 30, 2002 - 11:19 am:

When he made Dictator of the Year in 1995 everyone said 'Khan'gratulations!

One of his favorite singers from thr 80's is Chaka Khan.

He was the guest of honor at every Star Trek 'Khan'vention he was invited to.

Everyone that that changed their politcal views and joined him were 'Khan"verted.

By Todd Pence on Tuesday, July 30, 2002 - 02:58 pm:

After subduing him, when Kirk handed him over to security, he said "You have the Khan."

By Electron on Tuesday, July 30, 2002 - 05:16 pm:

He liked to dance the Khan-Khan.

By Doctor Obvious on Wednesday, July 31, 2002 - 11:02 am:

My guess is that this episode would have been very different if Khan looked different, like, say, Danny Devito.

By KAM on Thursday, August 01, 2002 - 06:30 am:

I don't know. Ever see Miguelito Loveless on the Wild, Wild West TV show?

By Adam Bomb on Monday, August 05, 2002 - 10:37 am:

I believe that Ricardo Montalban is now confined to a wheelchair. He has a role in "Spy Kids 2" and in the previews, you see him in one.

By LUIGI NOVI on Monday, August 05, 2002 - 04:00 pm:

According to the Internet Movie Database, he had a 9 1/2 hour operation on his spine in 1993 to repair an injury he recieved making "Across the Wide Missouri" in 1951. He has been in constant pain ever since.

An operation in 93 to repari an injury he got in 51? Curious.

By Butch Brookshier on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 09:12 pm:

Yes, Luigi, I remember seeing an interview that mentioned he was in constant pain years ago. Julie Newmar also has had a long time back problem.

By John A. Lang on Saturday, November 23, 2002 - 08:11 pm:

I'll never understand why Khan wanted McGivers to begin with. He had all those genetically engineered babes who look ten times better than she does! Not to mention scantily clad to boot!

By John A. Lang on Saturday, November 23, 2002 - 08:16 pm:

LESLIE ALERT! (Or maybe I should say Eddie Paskey alert?)

Mr. Leslie is in this episode...but as it was mentioned before he's called Mr. Thule. (Twin brother, maybe?)

By Brian Fitzgerald on Sunday, November 24, 2002 - 05:56 pm:

I'll never understand why Khan wanted McGivers to begin with. He had all those genetically engineered babes who look ten times better than she does! Not to mention scantily clad to boot!

The genetically engineered babes are probably the most high matinence (sp) women in the world.

By ComfortablyDumb on Thursday, January 30, 2003 - 12:15 pm:

Why was Khan wearing a red uniform and how did he get it?

He took it off a security guy who was fried alive during the previous episode.

By Anonymous on Thursday, January 30, 2003 - 12:25 pm:

A bust of a Talosian? I thought that those were taped up for the show....

if you look at it, you incur the only remaining death penalty in the Federation law book.

By Rugrat on Thursday, January 30, 2003 - 12:26 pm:

Historian implies someone who has a college degree, or has spent considerable time obsessively studying the subject.

like who runs and who strolls in old Star Trek episodes?