This episode is one of the more blatant "let's put it in space and call it science fiction." Any one who's ever seen a WWII submarine vs. destroyer movie knows the plot. These moments really stand out:
(1) when the Enterprise is in "silent running" mode, Spock (Spock!) accidentally hits a button on his computer that cause it to make a noise. The crew gets mad because now the Romulans know where they are. First, can't they _see_ them? Second, unless it was a radio signal, how could the Romulans hear it? Sounds carry through water, but not a vacuum.
(2) The Romulan captain tries to fool Kirk by jettisoning garbage and hoping that Kirk will think that the Bird of Prey has been destroyed. I remember the very same maneuvor in "Operation Petticoat", only they ejected women's underwear (You have to see the movie to understand).
(3) Kirk has to give phaser launch commands to a crew that manually fires the weapons, not unlike a submarine's "torpedo away" command.

Pretty lame.

By Todd M. Pence on Tuesday, November 10, 1998 - 01:52 pm:

I'm not sure, but I think I found a mistake in Phil's nit guide. He asks if the dialogue in the beginning of the episode indicated it would take three weeks to receive a message from Starfleet Command. Actually, what Uhura said was, it would take three HOURS to receive a reply to their first message. Actually, this creates a nit in itself, since the subsequent engagement with the Romulans took much more than three hours.

By Mf on Tuesday, November 24, 1998 - 01:44 pm:

No, Mike, the Romulans couldn't SEE them. Despite the way they're often filmed, ship are generally thousands of kilometers from each other - in any direction (360x360) - and without external lights they're entirely invisible, as there's generally no light source. And off-loading debris (shooting it up through the tubes, actually) is a traditional submarine defense. The writers weren't trying to hide that this was based on Run Silent, Run Deep.
And we often hear of "phaser crews" in Trek. Beats the hell out of the modern tendancy to forget there are CREWS on these ships. Redshirts aren't strictly cannon fodder.

By Mike Konczewski on Monday, November 30, 1998 - 03:39 pm:

It just seems awfully primitive that, with all the technology on the ship, the "fire phasers" button on the bridge is only a signal device to the phaser crew to actually fire the phasers. That's positively 18th century.

I wasn't implying that the writers were hiding their sources; I was trying to say that they didn't think up a very original plot. Not that they were the 1st or the last ST (or any TV)writers guilty of this crime.

By Rebekah Bunch on Tuesday, December 01, 1998 - 12:51 pm:

The real question is: What is the difference between a ripoff and a tribute? What is the difference bewteen a pathetic lack of orginiality and a skillful retelling of a classic theme? I've never been a fan of the submarine/WWII story, but I recognized this episode as a study of a group of people trapped in a small space, with no outside communication, growing increasingly mistrustful and paranoid, knowing that a single mistake could set off a tragedy. There is something fascinating (sorry!) about watching Kirk & Co, whose forte is action, having to do -- nothing, because that is what is best. Certainly all incarnations of Trek have been guilty of the clumsy rip-off, but IMHO, this episode falls into the tribute category.

By Mf on Tuesday, December 01, 1998 - 07:56 pm:

One thing this episode does beautifull is flesh out the characters - except perhaps for the token bigot Styles. These Romulans were fascinating, three-dimensional characters. None of the cartoonish writhingly evil villains we see made of the Romulans and Cardassians in modern Trek.

By Brian Webber on Tuesday, December 01, 1998 - 10:01 pm:

This episode does seem to be a rip-off of The Enemy Below, a wonderful WWII movie staring the late Robert Mitchum and Curt Jurgens.

By ScottN on Wednesday, December 02, 1998 - 11:01 am:

The Cardies in TNG were always sort of cartoonish, but the Romulans have always been more thoughtful...
Particularly, in TNG "The Chase", the Romulans come out as the "thoughtful" villains. Witness the final scene where the Ferengi, Klingons, and Cardies are all complaining that it was just a "hi there" message, while Picard and the Romulan commander are the only ones who "get it".

By Mf on Wednesday, December 02, 1998 - 12:48 pm:

ok . . . but I was thinking more of the Roms' first appearance in TNG - "We're back!" sneer sneer. Yuck.
Even the Vulcans are coming up short these days, as in the recent DS9. It seems that "alien" in ST has come to mean either "just like humans, only with bumps" or "strictly one-dimensional - be it avaricious (Ferengi - boy, remember their first appearance in TNG? Now THAT was alien. I sure miss D.C. Fontana), aggressive (klingons), or arrogant (Vulcans)" The fact that some of the actors are able to project more out of their characters is a tribute to those actors. Certainly not the writing.
Sorry. Done ranting. For now.

By Anonymous on Saturday, December 26, 1998 - 08:40 pm:

Hey sorry but I laike Cardassians. Hey the only characters that say the coll things on DS9 are Garak and Dukat.

By Lea Frost on Sunday, February 28, 1999 - 04:09 am:

I wouldn't say the Cardies on DS9 are one-dimensional at all -- Dukat and Garak would definitely rank among the most complex of Trek characters! (And personally, I'd have to say that DS9 takes the prize in the recurring villain department...but as this message has nothing at all to do with TOS, I'll stop now. "Balance of Terror" is one of my favorite TOS eps, though...)

By Chris Ashley on Sunday, February 28, 1999 - 02:20 pm:

Garak and Dukat are two of the very, very few alien characters who aren't defined entirely by their racial characteristics. Spock, Saavik (in II at least--haven't seen III), mebbe Odo, but for me that's it. (Jadzia doesn't count since Trills don't have racial personality characteristics per se. She's just an awesome character, period.)

By Liam Kavanagh on Monday, January 25, 1999 - 04:02 pm:

So, what WAS it with the phaser sin this episode? Were their any eps before it that had the traditional phaser graphics? The earliest ep I remember with the normal red phasers is Arena.

Which had changed to blue by the time of the Tholian Web, but what the hey.

By Jeff on Tuesday, February 09, 1999 - 09:30 am:

Looked more like standard photon torpedos to me. That Romulan superweapon appears to have disappeared, though the visual effect of its discharge (with the exception of the limited range scene) is similar to almost all other energy volleys from Federation enemies (whether they be Klingon or Romulan). Has the use of the weapon been discontinued or weakened, or has the Federation improved their sheilds?

By Todd M. Pence on Tuesday, February 23, 1999 - 09:08 pm:

Here's an oddity dealing with the "scenes from next episode" on the Paramount videos. The scenes for this episode are at the end of "The Conscience of the King". In the episode itself, whenever the Enterprise fires phasers, it shows the clip of the ship firing what would in later episodes be identified as photon torpedoes. Yet in the scene, supposedly from this episode the Enterprise fires the two straight lines we see as the phasers in later shows! I don't believe such a scene actually appears in "Balance of Terror."

By Jeff on Saturday, February 27, 1999 - 12:32 pm:

What ever happened to the "Phaser Room"? In later episodes it isn't even mentioned. I guess Sulu was the better man to have on the trigger. No dangerous coolant gas on the bridge (apparently). For this episode, however, which was basically a submarine adventure, I guess a torpedo room adds to the drama.

By Keith Alan Morgan on Wednesday, April 14, 1999 - 12:31 pm:

On page 57 of the Classic Trekker Guide, Phil wondered how the Romulans homeworlds can be called Romulus and Remus when those come from Roman mythology. Well, how long ago did the Romulans break away from the Vulcans? The myths of the founding of Rome feature several celestial references. (And Vulcan is a Roman god.)

Yeoman Rand's hair is very intricately woven. It looks like she is wearing a basket on her head. If a woman was really going to do that with her hair, how long do you figure it would take her to get ready and how long would her hair have to be?

The Romulans certainly picked an odd order in which to attack the outposts. According to Hansen, they attacked Outposts 2, 3 and 8, then they attacked Outpost 4. Attacking Outposts 2, 3 and 4 makes sense because they are all together, but why attack Outpost 8?

Why did Hansen switch the viewer from the Romulan ship to himself? Did he want the Enterprise to see his big death scene?

The viewscreens in this episode suffered from some serious time lags. Spock or Uhura would say that something is on the viewscreen and it would take a few seconds for the image to appear, then we would see an image for a few seconds after the transmitter was destroyed.

The Cloaking Device in this episode seems very primitive, the Romulans must have worked overtime to improve it. The Enterprise can even follow it using motion detectors. I don't remember Picard and company detecting cloaked Romulan ships so easily.

Why isn't there a closer command post to the Neutral Zone? The Romulans were at war with Earth. Shouldn't the Federation have a fleet of ships posted near by in case of an attack? What kind of government has a boundary that neither they nor their enemies are allowed to cross and then leaves it virtually undefended. (I know, I know, the Federation, the Romulans, the Klingons, the Cardassians, the Dominion...)

On pages 57 & 58 of the Guide, Phil wondered why the Romulan ship doesn't have warp drive. Actually nothing says they don't have warp capability, but as I understand it the Cloaking Device drains so much of the ship's power that they can only travel at Impulse while using it. Of course, if that is the case, why not drop the cloak and jump into warp when they are near the Neutral Zone?

During the attack on the Romulan ship, a large piece of the ceiling (a tile perhaps?) falls and almost kills the commander and does kill the centurion. Later it is stated that this is the flagship of the Romulan fleet. If the flagship is built so shoddily that pieces of the ceiling fall down during an attack, how badly built must the rest of the Romulan fleet be?
("To save money on the cargo ship we built it with screen doors. So take a deep breath before leaving the planet's atmosphere and floor the accelerator.")

On page 57 of the Guide, Phil wondered why the phaser transfer coil burnt out. Well, I think it was related to the wiring problem that caused the photon torpedoes to launch instead of activating the phasers. ;-)

Just how big and far away was that comet? As the Enterprise flies towards it we see several specks of light zip by. Now if those points of light are stars, then it must be very far away and incredibly big.

After losing the Romulan ship, the Enterprise hangs motionless in space waiting, even Kirk says, the ship is motionless. So why do stars 'float' behind the ship? Perhaps Kirk should have said the ship was drifting waiting for the Romulan to make a move?

The ends of the Romulan sashes reminded me of Doctor Who's scarf, but then some of the Romulan control stations in The Next Generation shows look a little like the TARDIS control panel. Hmmm, you don't think...

There are two screens over Uhura's station, early in the show the left screen showed two crossed lines with some kind of crescent at the bottom. Toward the end of the show the right screen featured this same image upside down.

When the image of the Romulan Bridge fades shouldn't we see the explosion of the Romulan ship? Or at least the remains of the explosion in case the Bridge view was some kind of latent image?

By ScottN on Wednesday, April 14, 1999 - 03:22 pm:

Anti-nit. Either in the newsletter(s) or the guide, I don't remember which, someone complained that this was a submarine ripoff/tribute, taken to the extent that when Spock made a noise during repairs, they all freaked out. The anti-nit is that while they were "running silent", the energy output was low. Spock hit a switch that activated a console, and the Romulans were able to detect that energy surge.

By Ron Albanese on Sunday, October 31, 1999 - 12:17 pm:

This is a great episode-- plot derivitive or not.
The writers went to great lengths to flesh out the
Romulans -- and to this day they're not utilized
as they should be.
I just got the DVD. After a break, my wife
(non-Trekker) says "now, do they know that's
Spock's fat

By Ron Albanese on Sunday, October 31, 1999 - 12:19 pm:

Okay, what's the secret? Why do all posts get
chopped? She said: "Now, do they know that's
Spock's father?"

By John A. Lang on Monday, January 31, 2000 - 11:49 am:

Was there a sound effect when the phasors were
emitting from the phasor banks outside the ship
during the exterior shots? I can't remember.

In the DVD version of this episode, the
photon torpedo sound effect is clearly heard.

By John A. Lang on Tuesday, February 22, 2000 - 12:53 am:

ACADEMY AWARD WINNING LINE:

Kirk: "Whatever bigotry you have, keep it in
your quarters."

By Brian on Sunday, April 02, 2000 - 11:38 pm:

Several people were wondering how the Romulan home planets can be called Romulus and Remus. Simple, that is just the Federation designation for them. Perhaps those names were made up by some humans before they had decifered the romulan language. Or it could just be some military designation that stuck. During the cold war Millitary intel called russian ship classes things like Alpha, Delta, and Typhoon. These were not the russian names but just what american servicemen called, and still call, them.

By Supertribble on Monday, April 03, 2000 - 04:33 pm:

I believe Startrek allways had a submariner approach with.
Starwars is much more World War II Catfights.
Needless to say I prefer the submariner approach!!

Brian... I believe the Romulans also call themselves romulans and I don't think they do that because of the federation (LOL).
Good try though!!
I really regret the fact that the writers couldn't come up with an original name 30 years ago!
(Oh, I forgot, we don't deal in reality!!)

Greetings from Supertribble.

By Keith Alan Morgan on Monday, April 03, 2000 - 11:59 pm:

I still like the idea that the Romulans stopped by Earth after leaving Vulcan and it was the Romans who were influenced by the Romulans.

By Supertribble on Tuesday, April 04, 2000 - 06:19 pm:

That's a good one Keith!
I never heared that one before but hey, I'm new on this discussionboard!
Can you also explain their bumpy forheads?
The vulcan's have a smooth forhead.
I have heard it is because of the thin air on Romulus and Remus that made the vains in their forheads bigger to get enough oxygen.
But in the original series the vulcans look exactly like the romulans.
Maybe there is a atmosferic difference between Romulus and Remus and is the air on Romulus thin and the air on Remus like on earth.
In that case the Romulans on the original series and movies are from another planet than the Romulans of the next generation series.
Maybe that explains the difference in apearances!

Paris : Do I make sense?
Janeway: No but that's okay!

P.S. Forgive my poor english!!

Greetings from Supertribble. :-)

By Keith Alan Morgan on Wednesday, April 05, 2000 - 12:51 am:

Well, the Klingons look different from the original TV series too.

Check in the Classic Trek Sink under Races & you'll find some boards devoted to discussing Vulcans & Romulans, & other recurring Classic Trek races.

By Supertribble on Wednesday, April 05, 2000 - 05:42 pm:

I knew the klingons on the next generation look different from the one on the original series but I have heared no one about the Romulans.
That's why I pointed it out!
Thanks for telling me about the discussion.
I will check it out!

Bye,
Supertribble.

P.S. Maybe I will find some klingons over there!
They will pay for what they've done!!!
After all they did kill my family!!!
If not for DS9 we would all be extinct!!!
I WILL GET MY REVENGE!!!

(Just kidding)

By John A. Lang on Wednesday, August 02, 2000 - 12:41 pm:

This episode contains a loaded question.

Janice Rand comes into Kirk's quarters and asks,
"Can I get you something, Captain?"

I can not help but wonder what is going on in Kirk's mind at that moment.

To add to the scene, McCoy comes in a minutes later, raises his eyebrow and smiles broadly like if he was saying, "Am I interrupting something?"

By JamesB on Wednesday, August 16, 2000 - 12:21 pm:

During the cold war Millitary intel called russian ship classes things like Alpha, Delta, and Typhoon. These were not the russian names but just what american servicemen called, and still call, them.

I think even the Russians used those names. I read somewhere that they liked them!
Why, oh why didn't they use the Bird of Prey model in more than two episodes? It's cool.

By John A.Lang on Monday, January 08, 2001 - 01:35 pm:

Remember that music from "Where No Man Has Gone Before" in which Gary Mitchell is clicking the remote control on the viewer? Well, it's back again in this episode...you hear it as the Romulan plasma weapon is approaching the Enterprise....it comes complete with that "clicking" noise!

By John A. Lang on Tuesday, January 09, 2001 - 01:00 am:

GREAT SCENE:

Uhura at the navigator's position! Even Sulu likes this idea.

On the same note, when the Enterprise finally disables the Romulan ship, Kirk orders uhura to open a hailing frequency...and she does....at the navigator's position! I tell ya' what, that woman is a wizard!

By Keith Alan Morgan (Kmorgan) on Tuesday, January 09, 2001 - 04:31 am:

why didn't they use the Bird of Prey model in more than two episodes?

I heard that the model was broken & they couldn't use it.

Trivia Note: The Klingon Bird of Prey in STIII was supposed to be a stolen Romulan BOP in an early draft of the script.

By Adam Bomb on Sunday, January 14, 2001 - 03:59 pm:

That would explain why all the BOP shots in "Deadly Years" were re-used from "BOT", and why Romulans used Klingon ships in "Enterprise Incident"-two races for the use (and price) of one ship. Were they on that low a budget that they couldn't fix the model or make a new one? I know that they were hurting for money, but this is ridiculous. A lot of first season music was re-used in third season eps-the "edge of the galaxy" music from "Where No Man..." was re-used as the "Lights of Zetar" theme.

By Brian on Sunday, January 14, 2001 - 06:35 pm:

I heard that they used the klingon ships in "The Enterprise Incident" beause they had just had the model build. The Klingon Ships had been refered to several times but not seen until the third season. They watned to justify building it by using it as much as possible.

In ST:III the villans were supposed to be Romulans, which is why the ship is called a Bird-of-Prey, a name which until than had only been used to discribe Romulan ships. The studio decided that the Klingons were more popular bad guys, so they were used.

By KAM on Monday, January 15, 2001 - 01:17 am:

Speaking of reusing music, a few years ago they were rerunning an older series called Twelve O'Clock High & some of their incidental music sounded like Trek.

By John A. Lang on Monday, January 15, 2001 - 01:36 am:

Need I say that the recent movie "U-571" is a blantant rip-off of this episode & "The Enterprise Incident"?

It's too simular to be accidental.

By ScottN on Monday, January 15, 2001 - 10:42 am:

Actually, John, you've got it backwards. BoT was based on the old WWII sub movies. That's why everyone was whispering, and they all freaked when somebody dropped the wrench.

By ScottN on Monday, January 15, 2001 - 10:43 am:

John, re my immediately preceding post, see the very first post on this board.

By Adam Bomb on Monday, January 15, 2001 - 11:04 am:

I believe the plot here may come from a movie called "Run Silent, Run Deep" helmed by future Trek movie director Robert Wise

By John A. Lang on Monday, January 15, 2001 - 01:27 pm:

I concurr...my mistake. I'm not a big fan of those old WWII sub movies because they're not 100% accurate. "U-571" seems a bit more realistic and accurate, even though it's a salute to those old WWII sub movies.

Interesting scene from "BoT"....Rand's head is almost perched on Kirk's shoulder...I was thinking, "Kiss him, you fool!"

By Derf on Thursday, February 15, 2001 - 12:56 pm:

If the Romulan "plasma-energy" weapon's projectile could be launched at warp-speed, how could the Enterprise out-run it? Weren't they in the "silent-running" mode when they fired it? If the Enterprise had to go to warp to out-run the projectile, then the two ships MUST have been light-years apart when the Romulans fired it. (otherwise, as soon as the Enterprise realized they had been fired upon, the projectile would have hit them) Unless, it is launched at an "impulse" speed first, then a few seconds later, the warp-speed kicks in.

By Will Spencer on Friday, February 16, 2001 - 11:05 am:

I wouldn't say they had to be light years apart, just 'light-seconds'. The viewscreen makes it look like the Bird of Prey is right in front of them, but it'd have to be a several million miles away, which would give Kirk only a few seconds to react. If the Commander had fired point blank, I guess we'd have the shortest episode ever!

By John A. Lang on Thursday, March 15, 2001 - 02:24 am:

EQUIPMENT ODDITIES:

Scotty mounts a camera on the wall so all decks can watch the wedding...HOW? The camera lens is mounted on the rear wall on the right side...it's not even pointed at the pedestal!....does that camera have a special "Wide angle lens" or can it photograph at weird angles and still get a clear image?

When Sulu signals Battle Stations, the red alert lights start flashing but the red alert sound don't come on until seconds later....does that seem right?

PHYSICS ODDITY:

When the nuclear device hits the Enterprise, everyone goes flying off in different directions.

Interesting Note: Uhura's panties seem a bit too small for her tush....not that I'm complaining mind you. I like the view!

By John A. Lang on Thursday, March 15, 2001 - 02:39 am:

What's it with Styles & Tomlinson anyway?

They see smoke pouring out of the phasor coolant unit and they just sit there and gawk at it.

Why not evacuate guys? Then signal some kind of alarm or hail Scotty to come down with an oxygen mask and fix the thing?

Did one of you WANT to die or something?

By Will S. on Thursday, March 15, 2001 - 10:24 am:

And speaking of Styles, I'll never understand how the producers could have allowed the scene between him and Spock when he sneers, "This time we'll do things without you, Vulcan." He's speaking to not only a superior officer, but the First Officer! That seems enough to bring up some kind of charges against him.
As well, his pronounciation of 'Vulcan' is said with as much anger as a racist would say the 'N' name, which wouldn't be tolerated by most people.

By JAM on Wednesday, April 11, 2001 - 08:54 pm:

Well, I just posted this one under the "Things we'll remember about 'Star Trek-The Original Series'", but "Earth outposts"!? I thought the Federation was made up of many alien races.

By Will S. on Thursday, April 12, 2001 - 11:06 am:

I understand that they had to simulate damage from the Enterprise attack, but why is there DUST falling from the ceiling of the Romulan ship?

By John A. Lang on Thursday, April 12, 2001 - 12:40 pm:

Maybe that's the reason the Romulans attacked the outposts...to get their Lemon Pledge(R) and some dust rags!

By Stuart on Monday, May 28, 2001 - 08:24 pm:

The dust falling from the ceiling of the romulan ship could be the cosmic ray shield, which may consist of light metal hydrides which are one of the most effective shielding materials for cosmic rays.

By LUIGI NOVI on Tuesday, May 29, 2001 - 02:11 am:

In space, no one can see you�re full of cr@p.
If you look directly into the sun, or into an eclipse, you�ll be blinded, right? But would you be blinded if you saw a TV image of a sun or eclipse? No, you wouldn�t, because the TV isn�t powerful enough, and doesn�t radiate the same amount of light as the image it�s broadcasting. So why does everyone on the bridge squint when the outpost is destroyed by the Romulans? Even Spock squints, despite the Vulcan inner eyelid, which Operation-Annihilate! later establishes. (This same problem occurs in Heart of Glory(TNG), Symbiosis(TNG), Parallax(VOY), and Alter Ego(VOY).
TV repairmen couldn�t help �em, because Starfleet didn�t have any spacesuits that could display a guy�s butt crack.
Spock tells the crew in Act I that the Earth/Romulan conflict fought a century earlier involved ships so primitive, there was no ship-to-ship visual communication. This makes no sense. Didn�t the humans and Romulans back then know that radio and television waves exist in nature and can travel through space? Didn�t they have radio and TV receivers and camera on their ships? The current space shuttles and stations do!
Star Trek. A show set in the future, featuring characters stuck in the past.
You have to admit, Styles has a REALLY strong sense family. Throughout this episode, he displays a bitter bigotry toward the Romulans, and even Spock, because his family lost several members in the Earth-Romulan War, even though that war was a century prior to this episode! Does he really have such a strong rapport with family members of five or six generations past? Given Vulcan�s role in Earths� recovery from WWIII, and their relationship together in the Federation, it seems difficult to believe.

By Merat on Tuesday, May 29, 2001 - 05:51 am:

Luigi.... I always thought that the only time that there was communication between Earth and Romulan ships was during the talks that ended the war. This could have taken place between bases in different starsystems, making video impractical but not subspace radio.
Also, I know someone who dislikes northerners (including me) because they had ancestors who died in the American Civil War.

By Brian Fitzgerald on Tuesday, May 29, 2001 - 03:13 pm:

Didn�t the humans and Romulans back then know that radio and television waves exist in nature and can travel through space? Didn�t they have radio and TV receivers and camera on their ships? The current space shuttles and stations do!

It depends on if the technology was compatable. For example you can't play PAL format VHS tapes in a US VCR. Also HDTV can't be played correctly on analogue TVs. Who knows if the technology from 2 diferent planets would compatable at the time.

By LUIGI NOVI on Tuesday, May 29, 2001 - 03:34 pm:

What's weird is the Chronlogy states that the Romulan fleet is not even equipped with warp drive, which seems ridiculous. I don't know if that portion of the entry was taken directly from the episode, or if it's conjecture, but while the date of the beginning of the wars is noted as being conjecture, that element is not. As the "no ship-to-ship communication" meaning the the ships could communicate, they simply didn't because they didn't need to until the negotiations that ended it, I suppose that's a plausible theory.

As far as southerners who dislike northerners because they had ancestors who died in the Civil War, first, they should stop being so stuck in the pass, and join the 21st century. Second, they should also give all the sourthern myths surrounding the War, like the "states rights myth," the "Gone with the Wind view of the War, the carpetbagger myth of Reconstruction, and the supposed herosim of Nathan Bedford Forrest and villainy of Willaim T. Sherman a big rest, and try reading actual history texts and primary sources for the truth on these matters.

As for Stiles, I'd like to think that this type of stupidity wouldn't survive into the 23rd century. I expect this sort of mental retardation from the morons who romanticize the Civil War as some type of "heroic cause" on the part of the South, but I expect better from Trek.

By JamesB on Tuesday, May 29, 2001 - 05:37 pm:

I can believe that racist fools like Stiles will survive into the 23rd Century. What I have a harder time accepting is that Stiles would get into Starfleet. Wouldn't they have Vulcan instructors at the Academy? Wouldn't Stiles, his attitude and his inability to keep his mouth shut surface a long time before this episode, and thus get him into trouble? I would expect so.

By Gvar on Tuesday, May 29, 2001 - 05:41 pm:

The Civil War originally was about States rights. The North was out to destroy this dangerous idealism and make sure that the republic was destroyed so that the Federal Government could secure a safe control of the country. And why do you call Ststes' rights a Myth, why do you think this country is called The United States of America? because originally America was a group of individual "little countries" joined together by certain common similarities and needs. How does that tie into the Star Trek Universe? From everything I have seen/read/heard it equates to how the other planets in the United Federation of Planets are joined together for the common good, and Defense of the citizens of the respective planets.

By Merat on Tuesday, May 29, 2001 - 09:26 pm:

Gvar, I brought up the "War of Northern Aggression" as its called here in Georgia just as an example of long standing bitterness over a war that happened long ago.

By Merat on Tuesday, May 29, 2001 - 10:53 pm:

Sorry, Gvar, didn't see Luigi's post before responding to yours.
Luigi, believe me, Sherman is a HUGE villain here.... Here being Atlanta, the city he burned to the ground

By Brian Fitzgerald on Tuesday, May 29, 2001 - 11:44 pm:

What's weird is the Chronlogy states that the Romulan fleet is not even equipped with warp drive, which seems ridiculous. I don't know if that portion of the entry was taken directly from the episode, or if it's conjecture, but while the date of the beginning of the wars is noted as being conjecture, that element is not.

Spock said "Their power is simple impulse, meaning we can outrun them." or something to that effect.

As the "no ship-to-ship communication" meaning the the ships could communicate, they simply didn't because they didn't need to until the negotiations that ended it, I suppose that's a plausible theory.

Also from the mouth of Spock "Nor was their even ship-to-ship visual communication in those days, so no human or Romulan has ever seen the other."

they did no know that the Romulans were an offshoot of the Vulcans untill Spock interceped that transmission from the Vulcan ship. Stiles did not carry over his pregidous aginst Romulans to SPock untill he saw what they looked like.

BTW States rights is frequently a smoke screen for real issues. For examle if you are pro-life and they want to amend the constitution to ban abortion than the federal government should be sovergen in your oppion. But if you are pro-life and the federal government wants to make it illegal to ban abortion on the state level than the states should be sovergen and the feds should but out because of "states rights". Some thing for segregation back in the 1950s & 1960s, or flag burning, or censorship, or even the 2000 presidental election in Flordia. If the feds are on your side they should be sovergn but if the state is on your side and the feds are not than the states should be sovergn.

By Ian Livingstone on Wednesday, May 30, 2001 - 12:10 am:

Sorry to jump in here like this but I noticed the recent topic here and wanted to put in my 2 cents. G'var and Merat have some good points hard feelings don't go away easy. In my part of the country (south eastern Ohio) there are some who feel like the south got a raw deal and that Sherman's march was a bit excessive shall we say? The Federal Government can be a bit heavy handed on somethings yet what a lot of people forget is that we still do have the right and privalige to say all that we do about the government. Much more than a lot of other countries. Imagine what this website would look like if it was in Cuba or China, not quite so much free and open discussion (or dissin' and CUSSIN as my son would say ;-) ) So we all have opinions, we're human. My Grandmother had a feud between her family and some other family that went back several generations and to this day there is still some bad blood between the families at the generations that don't even have a clue as to why they are feuding. And as Merat says when I last visited a friend in Mississippi having Ohio plates made people so happy to have a Yankee in their midst. Just my two cents and sorry to but in like this. (But I just can't let a good jawfest go by without jumping in.) :-)

By Lolar Windrunner on Wednesday, May 30, 2001 - 12:19 am:

Um Luigi what history texts are you reading? Every book I've read in high school and college has shown that Sherman's March to the Sea was a total scorched earth that would have done the nazi's proud. He wanted to destroy anything, anything that the South could use to fight the war. Homes, railroads, churches, schools,fields and gardens filled with food. Sherman waged a total war.

By Merat on Wednesday, May 30, 2001 - 05:51 am:

And thats why he won. It was considered a good thing BECAUSE he won. You know the old adage about history being written by the victors.

By Victor on Wednesday, May 30, 2001 - 05:51 am:

Really!? Neat!

By LUIGI NOVI on Wednesday, May 30, 2001 - 08:49 pm:

STATES� RIGHTS, AND THE REAL REASON FOR SECESSION
In 1860, the people of South Carolinia (the first state to secede from the Union) were perfectly clear about whey they were seceding. On Christmas Eve, leaders of the state signed a document to justify their leaving the United States. The "Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of the South Carolina from the Federal Union" begins by emphasizing that thirteen separate colonies signed the Declaration of Independence. While this was true, and the government set up under the Articles of Confederation provided little centralized control, in 1787, representatives met in Philadelphia to write a NEW document precisely because they felt they needed a more powerful union. South Carolina�s delegates were quite active in shaping the resulting Constitution, which South Carolina fully supported. Like most slave state delegations, its emissaries demanded that the new compact DEPRIVE states of the power to impose import and export taxes, reserving that prerogative for the FEDERAL government. The reason for this is that South Carolina�s upper class needed a strong government to represent its rights in international trade and also in case of slave revolt, always a fear in every planter�s mind. The Ordinance of Secession briefly discusses the constitutional convention, but never mentions that its purpose was to strengthen the unity of the new nation.

Instead, the first grievance of South Carolina�s Confederates-to-be was to OPPOSE states rights. Specifically, because of an increasing hostility on the part of non-slaveholding States to slavery, many of them, according to South Carolina�s complaint, did not fulfil their obligations to return slaves who had escaped from slave states to free states, which was provided under Article Four, Section 2, Paragraph 3 of the Constitution. Free states like New York wanted the freedom to deal with runaway slaves in their own manner, specifically, to grant them freedom, and South Carolina�s outrage didn�t stop at the mere denial of "the right of transit for a slave," but referring to the Dred Scott decision, the South Carolina document also denounced several northern states for "elevating to citizenship, persons (Africans) who, by the supreme law of the land, are incapable of becoming citizens." Thus, South Carolina claimed the right to determine whether New York could prohibit slavery within New York or Vermont could define citizen ship in Vermont. Carolinians also contested the rights of residents in other states to even think differently about slavery, giving as a reason for secession the excuse that Northerners "have denounced as sinful the institution of slavery."

Political scientists know that the party that lost the last national election ususually supports states� rights. In one sense, South Carolina Democrats followed this rule: The Ordinance of Secession expressed outrage at the victory of Republican Abraham Lincoln the previous November. Ironically, Democrats from South Carolina and other Southern states had made Lincoln�s victory possible by refusing to support Democrat Stephen A. Douglas, precisely because Douglas had championed states� rights, or more properly, territories� rights to choose or reject slavery. In 1854, Douglas had pushed the Kansas-Nebraska Act through Congress. Southerners supported the act then because it potentially opened to slavery the Great Plains north of the Missouri Compromise line. By 1860, however, slaveowners became more audacious, and the 1857 Dred Scott encouraged them to believe the federal government should guarantee slavery in ALL the land it controlled, but Lincoln�s election changed all that. South Carolina seceded because Southerners, having lost control of the executive branch of the federal government, could no longer use it to crush attempts by individual states to avoid supporting slavery. The only "states� right" Carolinians demanded was the right to secede, because they saw they could no longer compel the national government to curtail the rights of other states and territories.

This is all clear in the historical record. David Duncan Wallace, himself a South Carolina white supremacist, emphasized slavery as the cause of secession in 3-volume history published in 1934, and in an 1954 condensed version, he admitted, "The modern tendency to minimize slavery as the cause of secession is a natural reaction of writers weary of an oft-repeated disagreeable story." "The secessionists knew why they seceded," he pointed out, and they always cited the threat to slavery, real or imagined, as the cause.

Where has the modern myth of "states� rights" as the noble cause of the Confederacy come from? Clearly in the 1960s, when modern Southerners began responding to the Civil Rights movement, in part by erecting monuments to the War and, many of them were not comfortable with slavery and realized they could not convince visitors to monuments like the one at Gettysburg that slavery was a good thing. Controlling the past, including how that past is told across in textbooks and on the American landscape, helped white supremacists control the future. "States� rights" was just a subterfuge for those who wanted to take away individual rights. Thanks to Neo-Confederate organizations like the Sons of Confederate Veterans and the United Daughters of the Confederacy, numerous monuments litter the landscape that distort the past. The UDC even erected a monument in 1916 in Helena, Montana to the Confederate dead, even though Montana wasn�t a state or even a territory during the War. It was Indian country during, the war, untouched by white men, and wasn�t admitted to the Union until a quarter century after the war. Why did the UDC do this? Simple. To promote their cause of a noble Confederacy. And because of textbook authors� penchant for hero-making, optimism, patriotism, and fear of presenting uncomfortable questions to students, as well as fear of not having their books approved by local school boards, textbooks too distort the past. This is less of a problem with college texts, but as pointed out above, even those are not immune to popular myths.

SHERMAN
Sherman did burn several small southern towns, but mostly warehouses containing supplies like rolling stock, printing presses, weapons arsenals, cotton, etc., and the homes of Confederate leaders in Georgia in the Carolinas. The torching of private dwellings was rare. Moreover, much of Sherman�s actions have been exaggerated. A Georgia geographer painstakingly mapped Sherman�s route and found that many homes alleged to have been reduced to ashes in 1865 were standing in 1955! (The originals, not rebuilt versions.) Sherman did not torch Wilmington, Georgia, or Columbia, South Carolina, as at least nine markers claim. Confederates set Wilmington warehouses ablaze before pulling out of the town, to deny material to the Union.

Historian Marion Lucas researched Sherman�s supposed acts of brutality. After the War white citizens collected testimony of misconduct by Union soldiers and Lucas found only six of them were toward civilians, "all of which consisted of pushing, shoving and striking." Even pro-Confederate historian E. Merton Coulter admitted that "there is no evidence that Sherman every permitted his army to slay non-combatants or that his army ever desired to do so."

Tales of Sherman�s actions grew with each telling, and in time, it became a badge of honor to have an ancestor whose house was "burned" by Sherman. People even took to blaming Sherman for anything bad that happened in the South, including much of the damage done by Confederates. Many people are no doubt unaware that much of the damage credited to Sherman in the Carolinas was done by Confederate cavalrymen under Maj. Gen. Joseph Wheeler. Wheeler�s orders from Gen. John Bell Hood were clear: "If Sherman advances to the South or East destroy all things in his front that might be useful to him." Because Wheeler was not always sure which route Sherman would take, his swath of scorched earth often had to be wider than Sherman�s. A Savannah newspaper editor wrote in October 1964, well before Sherman took the city, "It is notorious that our own army, whle falling back from Dalton, was even more dreaded by the inhabitants than was the army of Sherman."

White Southerners knew this in 1866, and he was far less reviled then than he is today, after a century of neo-Confederate propaganda, myth and outright lies.

As for Sherman being compared to a Nazi, his actions were mostly those of a soldier destroying enemy supplies. Nathan Bedford Forrest, on the other hand, the ex-slave trader turned Confederate leader who sold people brought in illegally from Africa half a century after Congress outlawed that trade in 1808, who massacred unarmed surrendered black troops at Fort Pillow, who shot a Philadelphia black man dead who told Forrest, when asked, that he was a Philadelphia servant who had never been a slave, and who founded the first incarnation of the Ku Klux Klan, its most powerful of its three incarnations, is far better suited for comparison to Nazis, yet is revered as a hero. There are more monuments erected in his honor than three U.S. Presidents put together, and t-shirts and baseball caps are sold with his image on it in Tennessee! Again, this view of him began in the 1960s, not in the 1860s. I wonder if those same people who liken Sherman to a Nazi feel the same way about the slaveowners who tortured, castrated and murdered slaves. I also wonder how many black Southerners feel this way. According to historian Joseph T. Glatthaar, Sherman�s units often freed slaves, and everywhere they went, "crowds of ecstatic blacks came out to see and encourage them." Indeed, blacks made Sherman�s march possible. Their help meant that his forces would not be travelling through hostile territory without supply lines. Rather, the soldiers were more like a guerilla force in friendly territory. When Sherman entered Columbia, Union prisoners of war who had escaped their Confederate jails met him joyfully. Free blacks in Columbia hid them in their homes for months, a remarkable feat because it required unanimous support of all who knew. Many whites (and even Confederate soldiers) also joined Sherman�s army, for many of them were not rich slaveowners, and could now oppose the slave aristocracy without being hanged as deserted.

You can read about all this in Lies Across America What Our Historic Sites Get Wrong by James W. Loewen, the sequel to his book Lies My Teacher Told Me Everything Your American History Textbook Got Wrong.

By Derf on Wednesday, May 30, 2001 - 10:17 pm:

Gee, IS there a "balance of terror", then?

By Lolar Windrunner on Thursday, May 31, 2001 - 03:01 am:

And as Luigi proves the rewriting of history goes on to this day. To the victor go the spoils of war for all time to record.

By Merat on Thursday, May 31, 2001 - 06:15 am:

Sherman did, however, burn Atlanta, Georgia. Well, most of it anyway. He left a church standing when the priest stood in front of it and warned him that if he burned the church, Sherman would go to hell. By the way, sorry for starting all this

By Meg on Thursday, May 31, 2001 - 01:55 pm:

I hate being From South Carolina

You are stuck with a horrible stigma once people start to discuss the Civil War. Everyone outside of the South sees me as a racist hick. I hate that. I'm stuck with the stereotypical image that everyone has in their mind. When people look at me like that I get so angry. I just have to say to them:
I have all of my teeth
I don't sleep with my brother
I don't sleep with my daddy
I don't sleep with a goat
I passed the sixth grade, In fact I'm in college paid for entirely with scholarships
I don't live in a trailor
I can read
I don't sign my name with an X
I'm not a member of the Ku Klux Klan(although they do have marches in my town every now an then, I don't bother them, and they don't bother me)
I don't drink
I don't wear bib overalls
My parent weren't cousins
I don't know anyone named Bubba
I don't have 20 brother or sisters that live up in the hills somewhere
And contrary to popular belief, I think that I am very open minded, and not very backward at all.


Sorry guys, I just had to vent that out.

By TomM on Thursday, May 31, 2001 - 02:45 pm:

What's weird is the Chronlogy states that the Romulan fleet is not even equipped with warp drive, which seems ridiculous. I don't know if that portion of the entry was taken directly from the episode, or if it's conjecture, but while the date of the beginning of the wars is noted as being conjecture, that element is not. Luigi

As I understand it, there were about this time (21st & 22nd centuries) several means of acheiving FTL speeds equivalent to Warp 1 or Warp 2, But even though the Cochrane Drive couldn't do any better, it was the most efficient and was more easily upgradable. Still, the Enterprise and her eleven sister ships were the first to get the improved Warp drives, which is still relatively new, even for the Federation. In the 24th century, Romulans still do not have Warp Drive™. Their engines are based on a different technology that uses quantum singularities (mini- black holes).

By John A. Lang on Thursday, May 31, 2001 - 05:05 pm:

The nit involving the Romulans not having warp drive is complicated...remember, the Romulans are an off-shoot of the Vulcans...who were the pioneers of warp drive before Cochrane....so the problem is:
When did the Romulan/Vulcan breakup occur?
If the breakup between the Romulans & the Vulcans happened AFTER the invention of warp drive, then it'd make sense for the Romulans NOT to have warp drive. However, if the Romulan/Vulcan breakup happened BEFORE the warp drive was discovered, then there would be a big nit because the Romulans would have it too.

By Anita on Thursday, May 31, 2001 - 05:18 pm:

John I think you have it backwards. Unless your suggesting that the Romulans broke up with the Vulcans as a protest against this new warp drive technology (AFTER scenario).

By John A. Lang on Thursday, May 31, 2001 - 06:09 pm:

Anita---It's either way, depending on when warp drive was invented...before the Romulans broke up with the Vulcans or after.

NIT---Why wasn't there some kind of alarm going off when the phasor coolant started leaking?

By Ian Livingstone on Thursday, May 31, 2001 - 06:28 pm:

Hey Meg don't feel too bad you live in too rural a part of Ohio like I do and some of those things are thought about you. Good for you about being open minded it seems like there needs to be abit more of that around the here, and the world too. And Luigi as for the history books unless you were there then you don't know for sure. I don't know for sure. My grandfather who was born in 1878 lived through most of the major events of the 20th century looked in my elementary school history book and found quite a bit that he had lived through that was either not in the book or grossly changed. So the American education system isn't perfect. This is where parents and grandparents come into play. People have to think not just blindly react. OH another thing Meg, I own my own business (landscaping) and have a college degree (thanks to the US Military) but if I come into the store with my old suburban and I'm dressed in coveralls the hillbilly stereotype kicks in and people automatically deduct about 50 IQ points and 10 teeth. And my son even got me started on this internet thing and all with computers. Which I think I'm doing pretty good even with just two finger typing. :-)Take it easy.

By Merat on Thursday, May 31, 2001 - 08:26 pm:

Meg, as a New Yorker who has lived in Georgia for the past ten years, I have a somewhat amused reaction to all of this. I get to see people react in Georgia when I say that I'm originaly from New York and I get to see how people react in New York when I say I live in Georgia. Oh, and I do happen to know someone named "Bubba." He happens to be one of the brightest guys I know... he has a 4.0 gpa at the university.

By margie on Thursday, May 31, 2001 - 08:51 pm:

One of my friends used to date a guy named Bubba, who has lived his whole life in New York City!

I also feel stereotyped, as a New Yorker. People are surprised that I don't have a "New Yawk" accent or talk like Fran Drescher. It's also automatically assumed I'm violent and that I think my city is the only city that matters. If they actually asked, they'd find out I'd rather live in a small town somewhere in the South or Southwest and am extremely anti-violent.

By LUIGI NOVI on Thursday, May 31, 2001 - 10:47 pm:

Lolar Windrunner: And as Luigi proves the rewriting of history goes on to this day. To the victor go the spoils of war for all time to record.

Luigi Novi: But the ironic thing here, Lolar, is that it was the ones who lost the war, (or at least their modern descendants) who rewrote it.

Merat: By the way, sorry for starting all this

Luigi Novi: Don't be, Merat. These types of debates and discussions are a good thing.

Meg: I hate being From South Carolina.
You are stuck with a horrible stigma once people start to discuss the Civil War. Everyone outside of the South sees me as a racist hick.

Luigi Novi: I'm sorry you've had to put up with that, Meg, but I don't see you or the others as racists or hicks, regardless of their views on the Civil War. I, too, used to believe the idiotic myth that Columbus discovered America, or that he proved the Earth was round, but I don't feel like a racist guinea or dago for having done so. I simply reevaluated what I thought to be true when I discovered the truth. I'm a bit more self-conscious about the conclusions people form about Italians living in New Jersey from watching The Sopranos than from people who think he proved the Earth was round. That's the great thing about using this medium as a forum for discussion. You can form your opinion of someone based solely on their thoughts and words, as opposed to their appearances (though I know there's more to a person than just their posts at Nitcentral).

TomM: As I understand it, there were about this time (21st & 22nd centuries) several means of acheiving FTL speeds equivalent to Warp 1 or Warp 2, But even though the Cochrane Drive couldn't do any better, it was the most efficient and was more easily upgradable. Still, the Enterprise and her eleven sister ships were the first to get the improved Warp drives, which is still relatively new, even for the Federation.

Luigi Novi: Where has this been established?

TomM: In the 24th century, Romulans still do not have Warp Drive�. Their engines are based on a different technology that uses quantum singularities (mini- black holes).

Luigi Novi: Sorry, Tom, but I don't think so. Romulans have warp drive. Their ships have nacelles, for one thing. The artificial quantum singularities are merely POWER sources, not an entirely different system of propulsion.

In Act 4 of Face of the Enemy(TNG), N'Vek told Troi that radiation from a debris field can make a cloaked ship detectable if the ship goes to "warp" while in the debris field�s vicinity.

In Act 1 of The Die is Cast(DS9), The Colonel Lovak Changeling says they will proceed at "Warp 6" to the Changeling homeworld, and that if they go any faster, they're "warp signatures" may be detected.

John A. Lang: When did the Romulan/Vulcan breakup occur? If the breakup between the Romulans & the Vulcans happened AFTER the invention of warp drive, then it'd make sense for the Romulans NOT to have warp drive. However, if the Romulan/Vulcan breakup happened BEFORE the warp drive was discovered, then there would be a big nit because the Romulans would have it too.

Luigi Novi: It occurred 2,000 prior to Gambit part II(TNG), according to that episode.

Ian Livingstone: And Luigi as for the history books unless you were there then you don't know for sure.

Luigi Novi: Sorry, Ian I don't buy that any more than the similar statement made regarding science on the Evolution board. I trust the scientific method by which historians work. If historians use primary source documents and other sources to prove what happened in the past, and if their conclusions are accepted as fact by the historical community, I accept them as well. Same as with scientific fact\theory. I just make sure not to hold on too tightly to those conclusions, and allow myself to reevaluate them when new information comes in that may reliably contradict it.

By Todd Pence on Friday, June 01, 2001 - 12:48 am:

Being from Virginia, I'm always amused at how many people from other states always assume all Virginians must be Confederate-flag waving redneck seccesionists or something. People not from Virginia don't realize that there is a big difference between Northern Virginia, the D.C. suburbs (where I have lived most of my life) and the rest of the state. Even in the more southern parts of the state I don't think most of the redneck stereotypes abide.

By LUIGI NOVI on Friday, June 01, 2001 - 02:18 am:

Do a lot of people actually treat you that way when you travel to other states, Todd?

By Todd Pence on Friday, June 01, 2001 - 10:24 am:

Oh, no. I'm mainly taling about the impression some midwesterners and westerners who have never been to the state have about Virginia in general.

By Meg on Friday, June 01, 2001 - 10:27 am:

I never really traveled outside of the south. The only place i've been to so far outside of the south, was New York City.

I wasn't sure what to think. I knew it was a big city with lots of people. That's all. I never thought about being mugged or anything. It was completey different from the enviroment i was brought up in. I'm from the small towm of Liberty, South Carolina. The biggest thing that ever happened here was the movie Chill Factor was filmed here. You wouldn't believe the excitement that this town had.

New York was Enjoyable, i hope to go back. Not a bad moment rests in my mind. Things go faster there, and everything is must busier, but I have no bad stereotypes in my mind about New Yorkers.

I know that the south gets a bad rap. My best friend was originally from San Diego, California. She moved here and she though that we were either all braindead rednecks that appear on Jerry Springer and Cops, or that we were still living in the past and all the girls wore Scarlet O'Hara Dresses. She told me later that She wasn't sure if she'd be laughed at becasue she didn't own a dress to wear to school.

We finally showed her that some of us in the aren't too different from the people she knew in San Diego.

Because of my Friend, i've tried to alway have an open mind.

By Merat on Friday, June 01, 2001 - 12:02 pm:

I've lived just outside New York City, New York, just outside of Atlanta, Georgia, and just outside of St. Louis, Mo. I now live in the college town of Athens, Georgia. I've seen stereotypes abound about all three regions, and whats interesting is that many of them aren't the same. I mean that what Southerners think of New Yorkers and what Midwesterners think of New Yorkers have some similarities but many of them are unique to each region....

By ScottN on Friday, June 01, 2001 - 02:31 pm:

Merat, where in St.Louis? I lived in Clayton for a couple of years (Wash. U campus, actually).

By Merat on Friday, June 01, 2001 - 10:43 pm:

Ah! My mom taught there! I lived in Des Peres, near Ladue county.

By margie on Monday, June 04, 2001 - 12:39 pm:

You lived outside all those cities? Wouldn't they let you in? (Sorry, bad joke, I know!)

By Merat on Monday, June 04, 2001 - 05:36 pm:

No. I am too much of a disruptive influence, what with my obsessive reading of Scifi books and all. Bethpage had Grummen, an aerospace plant, which is where my grandfather worked, Norcross Georgia had Georgia Institute of Technology where my mother got her PhD in Computer Science, St. Louis had Washington University, where my mother worked as a computer science professor, and now Athens, where my mother works at UGA and my father works at Macon State.

By Todd Pence on Tuesday, June 19, 2001 - 12:30 pm:

In the introduction to the 1996 edition of the Star Trek Concordance, Bjo Trimble states that the concept of the Romulans having a galactic empire or the term "Romulan Star Empire" was not introduced until TNG. Yet when Kirk calls up the graphic map in "Balance", there it says in big bold letters "Romulan Star Empire."

By RevdKathy on Friday, June 29, 2001 - 02:39 pm:

small nit... I don't know whether it's in Phil's book, cos I can't find a copy. When Styles goes down to the phaser room (phaser room??? since when???) Uhura takes his place at Navigation. As she stands up from her seat at Communications, her skirt is caught up at the back, wide open, giving a full view of her regulation red undies. And no-one noticed????

By John A. Lang on Sunday, August 05, 2001 - 01:54 pm:

NIT: Spock never did decode the message he got from Uhura...its contents were never heard.

GREAT MOMENT: Kirk & Rand HUG! (Rand sighs deeply)

MISSED OPPORTUNITY: At the end of the show, Kirk enters the Chapel and finds Martine crying, she runs over & hugs him...what SHOULD HAVE happened is Rand barging in at that moment, get real mad and take Martine down in an all-out skin scratching, high kicking, and face slapping catfight. When Rand wins, she says, "Hands off! He's mine!"

(You all saw that last line comin' didn't ya'?)

UNANSWERED QUESTION: If Dr. Chapel was at the wedding (and she wasn't) but IF SHE WAS...one could say that Chapel was in the Chapel.

By ScottN on Sunday, August 05, 2001 - 02:03 pm:

Nit on John's post:


Chapel was a nurse at the time, not a doctor.

By John A. Lang on Sunday, August 05, 2001 - 04:41 pm:

Ding ding on me!

I must add that the hugging scene was aching for a kiss.

By ScottN on Friday, October 05, 2001 - 06:34 pm:

NANJAO: I believe this is the first (and only) time we see the Phaser Control room.

By John A. Lang on Tuesday, January 15, 2002 - 09:54 pm:

Why does Spock not know about the Vulcan/Romulan offshoot thing? He says in the briefing room: "IF the Romulans are an offshoot...." "IF", Spock?
Don't they teach that sort of thing on Vulcan?
You'd think it'd be in their history class or something. Why doesn't Spock know for sure? The Vulcans can't be embarrassed by it, that'd be an emotion.

By Brian Fitzgerald on Tuesday, January 15, 2002 - 10:58 pm:

At the begining of the ep he said that no human romular or allie has ever seen the other. That messege that he decoded was the feds first look at the romulans. Apparently the offshoot thing didn't make the history books. Perhaps the Romulans left in secret, or were secretly bannashed.

By KAM on Wednesday, January 16, 2002 - 04:03 am:

Also Spock theorizes that the founders of the Romulans had left during Vulcan's violent colonizing period. So there may have been no records of any Vulcan colony in the region.

The NextGen episode Gambit indicated that the pre-Romulan Vulcans had a different name. (Forget what Data called them at the moment.) They may have left Vulcan under one name to colonize then at some point changed their names to Romulans. So even if Spock had known of a Vulcan colonizing mission in the area he might not have associated them with the name Romulan.

By Lolar Windrunner on Wednesday, January 16, 2002 - 06:53 pm:

The Rhiansu is what they are called in some books especially The Romulan Way.

By tim gueguen on Sunday, January 27, 2002 - 11:18 pm:

The novels don't count since they are often contradicted by what ends up appearing on the various series.

By Anonymous on Monday, January 28, 2002 - 01:16 am:

Oh boy here we go again with whats real and whats not. Points has already had this arguement with others about canonicity.

By Butch Brookshier on Thursday, January 31, 2002 - 08:57 pm:

Hey Moderator Nick, this thing is up to 120k+, so how about a 2nd board? Thanks.

By John A. Lang on Monday, March 11, 2002 - 09:04 pm:

When Kirk is resting, Rand WALKS RIGHT IN...no buzzer!

YET MORE PROOF of the BBBB (Beautiful Babe Bypass Button)

By John A. Lang on Monday, March 11, 2002 - 09:51 pm:

LESLIE ALERT!

Once again, Eddie Paskey is in the background on the Bridge at the Engineer's station.
(Not mentioned by name or in the credits)

By Bill on Wednesday, March 13, 2002 - 08:42 pm:

When the Enterprise was speeding backwards to avoid being hit by the BOP's plasma torpedo, why didn't it just steer to the left or right, and let it pass by?

By Andy H. on Thursday, May 30, 2002 - 11:25 pm:

Two follows to John A. Lang messages: First, when the nuke explodes, everyone on the bridge gets pitched up and to the left (corresponding with the tilt of the ship in the next external shot)... everyone except Uhura who pirouettes from her station uphill toward the turbo lift where she spins around and strikes a pose with one leg bent so that her heel is planted against the wall... very very strange.

As for the ubiquitous Mr. Leslie (Eddie Pasky)... although unheralded, he made the journey from "Where No Man Has Gone Before" to "Turnabout Intruder" and yet we never see him at the conventions. (Sigh!)

By Merat on Sunday, June 09, 2002 - 10:40 pm:

By the way, is this the same Stiles who captained the Excelsior in Star Trek III?

By Adam Bomb on Monday, June 10, 2002 - 10:15 am:

No. The Stiles who captained the Excelsior is descended from Lt. Howard Hunter of "Hill Street Blues."
Let's be careful out there, huh.

By Todd Pence on Monday, June 10, 2002 - 04:25 pm:

I think the Excelsior Captain's name is spelled differently . . . "Styles" as opposed to "Stiles".

By John A. Lang on Saturday, July 20, 2002 - 09:32 pm:

To Andy H,

Mr. Leslie's last episode was "Elaan of Troyius". He never made it to "Turnabout Intruder"

By Andy H. on Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 12:15 am:

John... I'd thought I'd remembered the Janice Lester-infested Kirk ordering Mr. Leslie (and his twin redshirt, Mr. Lemli) to take the "mutineers" to the brig in Turnabout. Was I mistaken? -- Andy.

By John A. Lang on Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 08:26 am:

I'll have to watch the episode again & let you know. Stay tuned.

By John A. Lang on Wednesday, July 24, 2002 - 10:29 pm:

COOL SFX:
Even though the map on the viewscreen contains a nit (Romulus & Romii vs. Romulus & Remus)...it does have a nice attribute...the flashing dot representing the Enterprise...it moves along rather nicely. (This was BEFORE they had the "rear projection" viewscreen)

By Rene on Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 09:24 pm:

John Land, "NIT: Spock never did decode the message he got from Uhura...its contents were never heard."

Yes they were. "Sarek" confronts one of his lackies about an unauthorized transmission. The moron sent a coded message to his buddies at home showing off about the success of their mission.

By John A. Lang on Thursday, September 26, 2002 - 01:20 pm:

Andy H....Re: July 20-21 discussion:
After watching "Turnabout Intruder" again today, I can say without a fear of contradiction that Mr. Leslie's final episode was "Elaan of Troyius"