First off, I'd just like to say that as entertaining and dramatically effective as this episode is, the planet Vulcan comes off rather badly in it. Here's a world whose inhabitants have been built up in all the other episodes as peace-loving, completely logical, emotionless, and highly civilized. Yet here we see the planet's highest rulers not only condoning, but revering as an institution a barbaric duel to the
death to select one's mate! From now on after this episode, whenever Spock makes some wise-crack about the savagery and wars of the planet Earth, Kirk or McCoy should reply "Well, at least the government of our planet no longer sanctions killing among amorous rivals."

By Mike F. on Tuesday, October 27, 1998 - 12:32 pm:

The use of the word "thee" in this episode is grammatically incorrect.

By Nat Hefferman on Sunday, February 28, 1999 - 11:19 am:

If this whole "pon farr" thing happens every seven years, as Spock says later in "The Cloudminders", why is everyone surprised by his behavior in this episode? After all, Spock served under Captain Pike for over eleven years, so it would have had to have happened at least once during that time. Also, how could Spock (or any other Vulcan, for that matter) be allowed to join Starfleet while keeping this vital piece of medcal information secret? Presumably Starfleet has some sort of "don't ask, don't tell" policy in effect.

By Kail on Sunday, February 28, 1999 - 03:03 pm:

If the Pon Farr is such a deeply personal thing, that is never disscussed with outworlders, then why does Spock talk about it so openly in the Cloudminders? Is it a Vulcan pick-up line?

By Mf on Sunday, February 28, 1999 - 10:13 pm:

Well, he only talks about it with that one girl . . . who does have a prediliction for all things Vulcan . . . and h is trying to distract her.

By Todd M. Pence on Wednesday, January 13, 1999 - 08:57 pm:

Both Kirk and Spock are shown in this episode sleeping in full uniform. In fact, every time we see someone in Star Trek sleeping, they are fully dressed. Do these people sleep in their clothes, or do they work in their pajamas?

By Matt R Bell on Thursday, January 14, 1999 - 02:49 pm:

I think that "working in their pyjamas" line is more worthy of Picard and his boys in Nextgen, mmmmmmm?

By Mf on Thursday, January 14, 1999 - 04:36 pm:

In a DC Trek comic, they once showed the Enterprise retuning from its 5 year mission. Will Decker comes aboard in the TMP uniform, and Scotty says "I don't fancy zippin through space in a pai o' pyjamas!" Uhura then points out that that's because he hasn't spent the past 5 years in miniskirt.

By Hans Thielman on Wednesday, February 10, 1999 - 11:14 am:

How could the new President of Altair unilaterally move up his inaugeration by a week? Here in the good old USA, presidential inaugerations are, in accordance with the U.S.Constitution, held on January 20.

By Mike Konczewski on Wednesday, February 10, 1999 - 11:17 am:

It hasn't always been January 20th, Hans. Presidents of the 19th century were inagurated on several different dates, since it took them awhile to travel to Washington. Perhaps the President of Altair had a travel problem, too.

By BrianB on Wednesday, April 07, 1999 - 01:27 am:

If Vulcans have Pon Farr every seven years of their adult life, how many times has Spock had it? Are we to believe he's that young, his first seventh year? If he's had it before, why isn't he married? If he's had it before, how has he hidden it from others in the past?

By D.K. Henderson on Thursday, April 08, 1999 - 06:15 am:

In the book THE VULCAN ACADEMY MURDERS, (not canon--I know) the author got around the Pon Farr thing nicely by having Vulcans reach sexual maturity far later than humans--somewhere in their forties. (Actually, this makes sense in a species that is so long lived.)

This idea, of course, was blown out of the water in the movie "The Search for Spock" where a teenage Spock went into Pon Farr.

By Keith Alan Morgan on Friday, April 16, 1999 - 07:13 am:

They are headed for Altair IV and Spock says that they can divert to Vulcan with "A loss of 2.8 light days." Clearly this Pon farr has Spock confused, since a light day is a measure of distance, not time.

When leaving Spock's quarters Kirk has to push a button to open the door. What happened to the automatic door openings?

The decorations in Spock's room seemed curiously chosen. An animal totem surrounded by weapons? Is Spock Vulcan or Klingon?

Starfleet wants the Enterprise at Altair IV because the ending of some kind of war will send ripples to the Klingon Empire? Just how close is the Klingon Empire, since Altair is only 16 light years away from Earth.

If this ceremony is such an old custom, then why doesn't Spock wear ceremonial Vulcan clothing instead of his Starfleet uniform?

If Vulcan ears are better than Human ears, does this mean that everything that Kirk and McCoy said was heard by all? I wonder what T'Pau thought about Kirk's comments about quitting the fight?

With Spock's strength, don't you think he could have very easily broken Kirk's neck or crushed his windpipe when strangling Kirk?

On page 127 of the Classic Guide, Phil mentioned McCoy's statement that Spock is now in charge of the Enterprise and he wondered about what the regulations said about being premoted by killing a superior officer. I wonder about McCoy's reason for saying it. McCoy knows Kirk is not dead, so obviously he knows that Spock is not in command of the ship, so why say it? Two possible reasons. One, McCoy is just 'needling' Spock, trying to get under his skin. Two, there is a regulation against murderers getting promoted and McCoy is trying to let Spock know that things are not what they seem without confessing the whole thing to the other Vulcans.

Do you think T'Pau will be bothered to discover that Kirk isn't really dead?

Vulcans are overwhelmed by primitive emotions and a mating urge every seven years. The previous year in The Menagerie, Spock revealed that The Cage happened thirteen years ago. Which explains why Spock was so emotional in The Cage, fourteen years prior to this episode, so maybe Vulcans go through minor emotional breakdowns every seven years, but only once do they suffer the Big One as shown in this episode.

About the pajamas discussion: What about Uhura in The Tholian Web or Yeoman Rand in Charlie X? I don't think that was Uhura's normal uniform when she saw Kirk in her quarters and the same for Rand when Charlie made her 'go away.'

By Todd Pence on Monday, April 19, 1999 - 04:34 pm:

The pajamas theory would explain why the women's uniforms are so short . . . they're nightshirts!

By KAM on Tuesday, April 20, 1999 - 05:25 am:

Where do I sign up?

By MattS on Thursday, May 13, 1999 - 01:24 pm:

Spock says that the Enterprise can be diverted to Vulcan "with a loss of about 2.8 light-days". This is an odd thing to say when you remember that light-days measure distance, not time. And if this can't be what he meant anyway, since they had to go to *warp eight* for quite some time to get there. I don't know how many times the speed of light warp eight is, but I'm guessing you could cover 2.8 light-days in a few minutes, perhaps seconds.

How come Spock's parents don't come to his "wedding"?

By Todd Pence on Saturday, June 05, 1999 - 11:53 am:

Actually, this episode says nothing about a seven-year cycle. That information comes from "The Cloudminders."

When Komack asks the Enterprise for the reason they want to go to Vulcan, why doesn't Kirk just be frank and tell him "My ship's surgeon has determined the my First Officer Spock is dying, and the only treatment that might be able to save his life is on Vulcan." That would be the truth, and Kirk wouldn't have to say anything about Ponn Farr. Surely starfleet would allow the diversion if it meant saving Spock's life.

By Will Spencer on Monday, November 29, 1999 - 03:56 pm:

McCoy complains that Kirk and Spock shouldn't be forced to fight, because they're friends, to which T'Pau, showing anger herself warns, "I can forgive such a display (presumably of emotion) only once!"
I guess T'Pau must have been a little hard of hearing, since I'd consider McCoy shouting, "SPOCK! NO!" as an outburst, just as Spock is about to slice Kirk, who's lying flat on his back, in two with his lirpa.

By Will Spencer on Monday, November 29, 1999 - 03:58 pm:

McCoy complains that Kirk and Spock shouldn't be forced to fight, because they're friends, to which T'Pau, showing anger herself warns, "I can forgive such a display (presumably of emotion) only once!"
I guess T'Pau must have been a little hard of hearing, since I'd consider McCoy shouting, "SPOCK! NO!" as an outburst, just as Spock is about to slice Kirk, who's lying flat on his back, in two with his lirpa.

By Todd Pence on Monday, November 29, 1999 - 05:13 pm:

Keith Alan Morgan wrote:

>When leaving Spock's quarters Kirk has to push a >button to open the door. What happened to the >automatic door openings?

I think that officer's quarters have some kind of a privacy lock on them that is opened by that button from the inside.

By Will Spencer on Thursday, January 20, 2000 - 03:55 pm:

I've always felt that T'Pau's line when she asks him what kind of blood is in his veins, "Are thee Vulcan, or 'hearty human'?" to be dripping with condescention, unworthy of a full-blooded Vulcan. It sounds too much like racism to me. Substitute any real-life ethnic background and you'll see what I mean.

By Mark Stanley on Thursday, January 20, 2000 - 07:42 pm:

Hearty human? Never heard *that* mishearing of that line before...

By ScottN on Thursday, January 20, 2000 - 10:44 pm:

She just talks with a funny accent, Will. It's "Are thee Vulcan or are thee Human?"

By Will Spencer on Friday, January 21, 2000 - 11:14 am:

Nope, sorry guys, but she quite distinctly says, "Are thee Vulcan? Or hearty human?" And she says it as if it's the worst thing he could be. As much as Gene Roddenberry tried to make Vulcans different, for dramatic purposes they had to show a bit of emotion or even human conniving, as T'Pring's secret plan with Stonn demonstrates. Here she was, bonded to Spock, and yet she's carrying on a secret (?) affair with Stonn, even going so far as to say right to Spock's face, "...you would be gone, and Stonn would still be there." (for her). I guess you could call this one, "As The Vulcan World Turns" for it's soap-opera turns.

By Mark on Friday, January 21, 2000 - 06:45 pm:

Your interpertation of motives and Vulan emotion and prejudice seems sound, but that doesn't change the fact that T'Pau said, "Are thee Vulcan, or are thee human?" Not 'hearty' -- 'are thee'.

(She may have said 'Art thee...', not 'are thee', it's hard to tell with the actress's strong accent. But she did *not* say 'hearty'.)

By Will Spencer on Monday, January 24, 2000 - 11:19 am:

Now I'm starting to doubt my interpretation of a line I've always thought I'd heard. I checked my old copy of James Blish's Star Trek 3, but the novelizations at that time grazed over the scene, and was of no help.
The way I always understood it was; T'Pau says, "It is said that Vulcan blood is thin. Are thee Vulcan? Or hearty human?" meaning she was calling human blood thick like Campbell's Chunky Soup. 'Are thee' makes as much sense as 'hearty' to my ears, but I guess the only way to confirm it is to find a web-site with the actual script, and read it for ourselves.

By mf on Monday, January 24, 2000 - 12:33 pm:

It's not "are thee" (and certainly not "hearty") - it's "art thee". "Art" is gramatically correct, though it should have been "thou" instead of "thee."

By Will S. on Monday, January 24, 2000 - 03:39 pm:

Okay. I'm officially dizzy.

By ScottN on Monday, January 24, 2000 - 04:55 pm:

IIRC, Nimoy makes specific reference to that line in his autobio "I Am Spock", and it's "Art thee Vulcan or art thee Human?"

By Will Spencer on Tuesday, January 25, 2000 - 11:05 am:

I guess that's it then. I still think T'Pau was displaying un-Vulcan prejudice when she said the word 'human'.

By Will Spencer on Monday, January 31, 2000 - 11:13 am:

Hey, at least I didn't mis-hear another T'Pau's lines, and insist that she said, "This combat is to the debt!"

By KAM on Tuesday, February 01, 2000 - 01:09 am:

I thought all combat was "To the debt", that's why so many soldiers yell, "Charge!" ;-)

By D.K. Henderson on Tuesday, February 01, 2000 - 06:21 am:

You mean like Wilma Flintstone and Betty Rubble shrieking "CHARRRRRGE IT!" ???

By Stephen on Tuesday, February 01, 2000 - 09:48 am:

About 25(!) years ago some fans put together a gigantic fanzine series called KRAITH which among other things cleared up many of these inconsistencies about Vulcan culture. What happens on the Genesis planet is different from what would have happened originally. Besides, the Genesis planet is scientifically inaccurate and inconsistent, so never mind.

By ScottN on Tuesday, February 01, 2000 - 10:19 am:

That series is mentioned extensively in "Star Trek Lives!"

By John A. Lang on Saturday, August 05, 2000 - 01:11 am:

RED ALERT! ROMULAN SPY! RED ALERT!

Stonn looks like one of the centurians from "Balance of Terror"

By MikeC on Thursday, August 17, 2000 - 01:52 pm:

So? The Vulcan Ambassador looks like a Romulan Commander!

By James T. Kirk on Friday, August 18, 2000 - 12:55 am:

"Double red alert!"

By John A.Lang on Wednesday, October 11, 2000 - 03:05 am:

The next time we see Vulcan is STTMP,
The next time we see the ceremonial gong on Vulcan is STIII,
The next time we see a Vulcan matriarch in a sedan chair is STIII

By Padawan Nitpicker on Thursday, October 12, 2000 - 03:36 pm:

Here`s a fun little production problem. When Chapel leaves sickbay the extras aren`t walking through the corridors as they usually do, but are standing still and then start walking! (Perhaps they were listening in?)

By John A. Lang on Wednesday, October 25, 2000 - 01:01 am:

KUDOS to Gerald Fried again for the music...the fight sequence is his best work to date.

Nit or no?

The gong breaks after Spock hits it...accidental or deliberate? Either way, it's effective.

Nit or no?

Spock has to hit the gong twice before the marriage party arrives...did they miss their cue?

By John A. Lang on Sunday, November 12, 2000 - 05:24 pm:

Note on second "nit or no?" The only reason I can think of for Spock hitting the gong a second time is to stop and chit-chat with Kirk & McCoy more about the Vulcan marriage ritual after hitting the gong the first time....so...why didn't he hit the gong the first time after the explanation?..it makes the wedding party look deaf!

By John A. Lang on Monday, November 13, 2000 - 12:43 am:

Why didn't Kirk ask T'Pau about the rules of the combat before getting himself in such deep muck?

Why is T'Pau wearing slacks to Spock's wedding?
Could the costume deptartment find a "alien looking" DRESS and put Ms. Lovsky in it?

Once again, the creators fudged on the budget for this episode and put some helmets on some of the Vulcans.

By John A. Lang on Monday, January 22, 2001 - 01:56 am:

The head & helmet statue returns again,this time in Spock's quarters!

1st appearance: "Dagger of the Mind" (Adams' quarters)
2nd appearance: "Space Seed" (McGuivers' quarters)

By Todd Pence on Thursday, March 08, 2001 - 06:57 am:

Simple explanation: after Adams died, a lot of his personal artifacts went up for auction on the Enterprise. Marla McGivers liked the helmet and bought it. After she was sent into exile with Khan, she had no need of such decorative items on a harsh planet where survival equipment would be priority. Spock saw the helmet statue as she was cleaning out her cabin, thought it was cool, and asked her for it. Sure, McGivers said, I'm only gonna throw it out anyway. So Spock took it for his own quarters, and that's the story of the odyssey of this sculpture.

By Anonymous on Thursday, March 08, 2001 - 12:51 pm:

Maybe it was on E-Bay....?

By John A. Lang on Sunday, March 25, 2001 - 03:38 pm:

When Kirk clicks the switch for the monitor in Spock's quarters, the monitor does not come on...Shatner realizing this, turns the monitor his direction.

When McCoy beams out, the creators fudged on the budget and do not show the dematerialization.

KUDOS TO THE PROP DEPT.....
Look at the fire pit on Vulcan closely...there are various alien-looking symbols on the brickwork. Now THAT's attention to detail!

By Derf on Tuesday, April 03, 2001 - 10:33 pm:

>>They are headed for Altair IV and Spock says that they can divert to Vulcan with "A loss of 2.8 light days." Clearly this Pon farr has Spock confused, since a light day is a measure of distance, not time.<<

Nitpicking is so much fun that Keith Alan Morgan won't mind me snatching this exerpt from his post of April 16,1999!

Isn't it Altair VI? (or even Altiar if you use the spelling in the Okuda's Star Trek Encyclopedia) I know ... picky, picky

And perhaps in Spock's fevered mind he was thinking that a "light-day" was one with just 23.7 hours in it. (nyuk - nyuk)

The episode starts with them headed for Altair VI ... maybe this episode is where McCoy develops his affinity for Altair Water. (ref. ST3 - McCoy in the bar on Earth)

Chapel needs to re-think being Spock's "woman" ... she gets into Spock's quarters, he asks her to make that soup she tried to serve him earlier ... do you think she might have seen that comm unit Spock crushed with one fist? It may make for a short life-span the next time he goes through his "Vulcan Period".

By Mikell on Wednesday, June 13, 2001 - 10:40 am:

I just found this on another website. I don't know whether it's in the book or not, but 'm posting it here just to be sure...

-----------------------------------

Somewhere in the middle of the episode Spock goes into plack tao(Vulcan for blood fever), and goes to a cliff to meditate. Then there is a shot of him sitting or leaning against a cliff. His hand are together, head bent down, and extremely focused. The next shot shows Kirk talking to T'Pau (I think that he name). If you look closely in the center of the screen by McCoy's Stomack, you can see Spock leaning agianst the cliff whith his hands behind his back, looking around the set waiting for his next the shot he is needed in.

By LUIGI NOVI on Thursday, June 14, 2001 - 02:09 am:

Phil, from his TOS Guide; CPP#3: For being deep in the blood fever, Spock sure seems relaxed during the Koon-ut-kal-if-fee. At times he has his hands behind his back as he leans against a wall.
Actually, Phil, Leonard Nimoy didn�t know he was on camera. It�s a cute little Trek anecdote.

Screw logic, I�m randy as a goat!
Do any of these Vulcan rituals seen here seem indicative of a culture that treasures logic so much? What�s logical about two best friends trying to kill each other in ritual combat? Or the guards holding Kirk at bay when he is insolent towards T�Pau?
The only weapon endorsed by OJ Simpson
When Kirk and Spock begin their duel, Spock slashes Kirk, cutting his tunic, and making a very nasty bloody gash across his chest, but in all subsequent shots of Spock�s lirpa, there�s not a drop of blood on the blade.
It�s been so long since he�s had sex, he forgot when his next appointment was
There�s a lot of tension present in the beginning of the episode, as Spock nears his time of Pon Farr, including his disobeying orders in setting course for Vulcan. Since Pon Farr occurs every seven years of a Vulcan male�s adult life, why didn�t Spock make necessary arrangements to be on Vulcan around this time? Shouldn�t he have scheduled leave around now, rather than worry about it at the last minute, when he was already succumbing to the condition?
Fortunately, Shatner had plenty of hot air to go around for everyone
A couple of times, remarks about Vulcan�s comparatively thin atmosphere are made. Why don�t Kirk and McCoy wear supplementary respirators to provide them with the concentration of M-class gases that they�re used to? In fact, since Spock has gotten used to the density of the atmosphere on the Enterprise, he should be suffering from ill effects as well. (Or does he adjust the environment in his quarters to better acclimate himself to his native atmosphere�s density?) McCoy injects Kirk with a compensatory compound, but only after he literally gets the wind knocked out of him in fighting Spock. Why didn�t McCoy administer it to both of them when they arrived on the surface?
Kirk: "Hello, there, Spock. How are you feeling?"
Spock: "Horny." WHACK!
(Kirk falls down, unconscious.)
Spock: Whew! Much better!
Not a nit, just a question: This episode is set in 2267. Spock�s body was reconstituted in 2285, in ST II}. During the 18 years in between, Spock must have gone through pon farr twice, once in 2274, and again in 2281. I am curious as to what happened. Spock eventually would�ve had to have taken a mate, but we never heard anything of it. 2274 was three years after ST I, but there is only 1 entry for this year in The Star Trek Chronology, and it deals with the Artemis from Ensigns of Command(TNG). The only entry for 2281 are ones for Saavik entering the Academy and Kirk meeting Demora Sulu and retiring from Starfleet. We do know Spock was appointed captain of the Enterprise and a member of the Academy faculty in 2277, three years after his first post-Amok Time pon farr. Did he take a mate and marry, or did he just beat the s h i t out of Kirk again?

By KAM on Thursday, June 14, 2001 - 06:25 am:

In the NextGen ep Sarek it is mentioned that Picard met Sarek at the marriage of Sarek's son. (Spock isn't named, but how many son's does Sarek have?)
IIRC Picard was a Lt. at the time so it probably happened well after STVI, however.

By LUIGI NOVI on Friday, June 15, 2001 - 02:13 am:

Right. My point is that he had to have undergone pon farr twice between the end of the original series and the movies, so you would think he'd be married by the time of the movies, but he isn't, and without any further explanation or elaboration as to why. Yes, I know there are methods to alleviate pon farr that do not involve mating, as seen in Blood Fever(VOY) and Body and Soul(VOY), but some mention of how Spock chose to address this problem would've been apt.

By Merat on Friday, June 15, 2001 - 06:16 am:

I thought that the battle and breaking of the mind-meld between Spock and T'Pring in this episode made it so Spock wouldn't need to go through Pon Farr again.

By LUIGI NOVI on Friday, June 15, 2001 - 02:07 pm:

I don't know where you got that idea from. Vulcans undergo pon farr every seven years. It's a chemical imbalance that builds up in the brain; it doesn't have anything to do with mindmelds, nor do I recall anything about Spock and T'Spring being mindmelded. They were supposedly "bonded" at birth, but that is simply a betrothal, not a mind meld. Are you saying all his life, right up to the end of this episode, Spock was walking around telepathically linked with her?

When Vorick underwent pon farr in Blood Fever(VOY), the fact that he was arranged to be married to someone didn't mean squat, nor was there any meld to break. He simply told Torres that hey, she probably assumed he was dead and moved on to someone else, and now he was doing the same.

By merat on Friday, June 15, 2001 - 04:47 pm:

I just remebered where I got this idea, I think. Its the non-canon, but very good novel "Sarek" along with many other novels and some pseudo-canon sources....

By Lolar Windrunner. on Friday, June 15, 2001 - 06:23 pm:

Also the Federation Medical Manual, as well as the FASA Sourcebook for the RPG says that the "mindmeld" of the bethrothing ceremony is just alight mental touch that allows both parties to know if the other is injured or otherwise distressed.

By LUIGI NOVI on Saturday, June 16, 2001 - 09:11 am:

Also a great way to tell if your spouse is cheating, huh?

"I'm sensing his heartbeat is increasing...I'm sensing his blood pressure is rising...and wine....and cheap pefume...That bastard! He's hanging out with that floosy again!"

By John A. Lang on Saturday, June 16, 2001 - 07:31 pm:

CONTINUITY KUDOS!

Ok...we've all noticed continuity errors, I'd like to give a salute (a Vulcan salute) to the creators for doing something right...

When Kirk leaves Spock's quarters for the first time, you can still see the soup stain on the wall that was there before the main titles.
(It COULD HAVE been gone, but it ain't...thereby avoiding a nit!)

By RevdKathy on Monday, June 18, 2001 - 10:58 am:

Kam asks "How many sons does Sarek have?" at least two - Spock and Sybok (from ST:V TFF) Given that he is 102 in "Journey to Babel", and assuming that he experienced his first Pon Farr at around 30 (as Spock appears to in "Amok Time" - I take the TSSfS incident to have been brought forward by the anomalous Genesis effect) he could still have fathered a fair few sons by the time Picard was around!

By RevdKathy on Monday, July 02, 2001 - 01:41 pm:

The soup of the day
Just what colour is plomeek soup? I'd always believed it to be green. Blish describes it as 'green plomeek soup'. McIntee in "Delta Quadrant" considers Neelix's red soup a continuity error. But the soup in the bowl, and the stain on the wall are both a dark red colour. Looks like I (and a lot of other trekkers) have been wrong all these years!

He felt like a change
Kirk has completely rearranged the layout of his quarters since we saw them in "Balance of Terror", even to moving the door. Or maybe he moved in somewhere else.

Adrenaline? I don't think so
McCoy compares Spock's condition to having huge amounts of adrenaline pumped into his system. More like testosterone. Maybe they weren't allowed to mention that in the 60s?

I said testosterone
Once again, Spock has five o'clock shadow, this time in the scene where he 'spills the beans' about the Vulcan guilty secret.

Sorry, ducks, you're stuck with me
Spock and T'Pring were 'bonded' at age seven. She is neither married nor free. She can only be free by making the challenge at the proper time, when Spock goes crazy. Yet he "hopes I would be spared this"... what about poor old T'Pring, stuck with half a husband for life, you selfish.....

I...er... knocked it over
How the hell did Spock explain to the quartermaster what happened to his viewscreen?

does no-one ever knock?
I know there's a precedent for people barging into senior officers' quarters unannounced (Rand and McCoy both in Balance or Terror, Valeris in TUC, to name a few) but Christine really is out of line here. The man is going through a crisis of his masculinity, and she wanders in... heck, he might be...er...busy. (Note, when Spock lies on his side, he cradles his head on his arms. Nimoy says he couldn't lie on his side because of the ears!)

Vulcan peroxide
T'Pau has a 'fascinating' hairstyle featuring two white plaits and one black. Maybe she went grey unevenly?

young, free and single?
Vulcans are bonded to their partners from childhood. Then they either marry or fight to the death - on which principle there shouldn't be any single Vulcans (only married or dead ones!) How did Stonn escape?

and the logic is..
OK, I know Vulcans are logical people. But T'Pring doesn't seem to be being driven by any hormonal frenzy. So why would any female in her right mind choose Stonn over Spock? The credibility of this episode takes a real nosedive on that one!

What do you mean, you're not in the mood now?
As an evolutionary development, the koon ut kal if fee is seriously flawed. There are plenty of examples of a 'mating drive' and of systems where males fight for the females (good for ensuring strong genetic inheritance). But a system where the combat serves to dispel the mating urge??(As confirmed by Voyagers "Blood Fever"). At the end of the fight, one party's dead and the other has lost interest... great for propagating the species! Especially since he won't be in the mood again for another seven years. (Not that the cycle is mentioned in this episode - that won't be 'canon' till "The Cloud Minders" - ever since when fans have debated endlessly one whether it's only every seven years!)

Bridal gowns by mothercare
T'Pring is a lovely girl, but her outfit isn't one of Theiss's best. Along with her habit of folding her hands under her bust, it made me wonder if she isn't pregnant. Maybe Spock's speech about having and wanting is wasted on Stonn!

It's legal!
Starfleet rules require that officers behave according to local laws when on a planet. So... Spock killed Kirk in accordance with Vulcan law (and presumably with T'Pau's approval). I appreciate his grief at having killed his friend, but he hasn't broken any laws. And I wonder - his reply to T'Pau's "Live long" insinuates that the Federation still practice the death penalty??

and after all that ... yes, I loved this episode!

By margie on Thursday, July 05, 2001 - 01:25 pm:

>So why would any female in her right mind choose Stonn over Spock? <

Maybe she didn't like that Spock was away so much and wanted a man who was home more often.

By RevdKathy on Thursday, July 05, 2001 - 03:35 pm:

Hmmm reminds me of the old song "He can come home as late as can be/ Home without him ain't no home to me/ Can't help lovin' that man of mine!"

I take the suggestion, Margie. But I'd still choose Spock!

By LUIGI NOVI on Thursday, July 05, 2001 - 03:44 pm:

RevdKathy: Vulcans are bonded to their partners from childhood. Then they either marry or fight to the death - on which principle there shouldn't be any single Vulcans (only married or dead ones!) How did Stonn escape?

Luigi Novi: There's no evidence that bonding is a Vulcan-wide custom. It's possible that different regions on Vulcan have different cultures, much as on Earth.

RevdKathy: As an evolutionary development, the koon ut kal if fee is seriously flawed.

Luigi Novi: I've never believed that Vulcan emotional discipline, or any of the things that arise from it, are natural. It has always been my guess that because the drive towards no emotions was a social movement, one instituted by Surak (?), that Vulcans used a variety of genetic engineering, drugs, etc., to take control of their emotions, and that the seven-year chemical imbalance buildup in their brains was one of the results of it, (intentional or unintentional) and that the culture adapted to it. There's no way that such a thing could've have occured to the Vulcans naturally, especially at a time when they just happened to be destroying themselves, and so abruptly.

RevdKathy: Starfleet rules require that officers behave according to local laws when on a planet. So... Spock killed Kirk in accordance with Vulcan law (and presumably with T'Pau's approval). I appreciate his grief at having killed his friend, but he hasn't broken any laws.

Luigi Novi: Sorry, Kathy, but I'm not buying that one. Starfleet officers obviously have to adhere to their own regulations regarding conduct. If I'm in the Navy, and I'm stationed in some Arab country, say, Saudi Arabia, and I cut someone's hand off for stealing something, I can assure you that my superiors are NOT going to be pleased with me! If I visit an African country, and slice off a female infant's clitoris, (more of a culture than a law, admittedly, but you get the idea) again, can I assume I won't get in trouble if Amnesty International finds out who I am, and what organization I belong to?

RevdKathy: And I wonder - his reply to T'Pau's "Live long" insinuates that the Federation still practice the death penalty??

Luigi Novi: That wasn't what I took it to mean. I simply took it to mean that he wouldn't live a happy life, after what he did to his friend.

By Sophie Hawksworth on Thursday, July 05, 2001 - 03:52 pm:

>So why would any female in her right mind choose Stonn over Spock? <

Maybe she wants children. Spock's a hybrid. On Earth hybrids, e.g. mules, are sterile.

(I expect the creators want us to overlook that little fact. Trek treats inter-species breeding as it if is inter-racial breeding.)

By RevdKathy on Saturday, July 07, 2001 - 04:36 am:

I'm not convinced by your arguments about koon ut kal if fee Luigi. The way Spock describes the drive to return home, comparing it to the drive of salmon or eels certainly sounds like a genetically programmed need. It would be interesting to learn whether Romulans experience the same urge. I think the seven year cycle is something slightly different. It is not stated that the drive to return home occurs every seven years. How would Vulcans ever have coped with deep space missions? And we are given to believe that the Romulans are not subject to the seven year thing. D C Fontana (who presumably knew about these things) was quite clear that Vulcans are capable of mating between cycles. One assumes they don't choose to. Or maybe some of them do?

I don't think any Vulcan ever said that the seven year cycle was caused by the build-up of emotions... that's a human interpretation on it (and may say more about humans than Vulcans... we never have got our heads round the idea!).

I do think it is possible for such a cycle to evolve - assume that after Surak's time 'enlightenment' caused a radical drop in the birth rate: Those Vulcans who intermittently caved in to their former drives would proliferate, those who never did would die out. And there you have the evolution. The fact that an act of violence affords the same 'release' as mating would be co-incidence. One would just have to hope that they don't slug it out too often or the species might die out! On the other hand, one might assume that Spock had no personal reason for taking T'Pring as a wife. If he had actually wanted her, things might have been different. He simply lost interest in something he was no longer obliged to do.

I think I was being a bit "devil's advocate" about the legal thing, but it is an interesting question. Spock is acting effectively under orders from the local government when he kills Kirk. TNG went on the have a number of debates (even Voy had one) about conflicts between local law and Federation law. TOS could have done one here, and didn't. And then there's the question of whether he's 'responsible' for his actions... (Vorick in "Blood Fever" is treated as not responsible for his attempted rape of B'Elanna - at least, I assume that why no-one bothers to mention it!)

As to "I shall do neither" He's Vulcan - they say what they mean. I shall neither live long, nor prosper. Sounds pretty convincing to me. And they do have the death penalty as shown in "The menagerie"

Thanks Sophie I thought I was the only one who had ever assumed that Spock was infertile (on the same principle as the mule). I agree they take interspecies mating too lightly - though the later trek admits scientific intervention is needed. Spock writing in Nimoy's autobiography says that considerable intervention was needed in his conception, and he gestated in a special unit. This would surely be necessary, since the amount of copper required by the foetus would be toxic to a human mother. Actually, I can think of several reasons why a Vulcan woman wouldn't choose Spock (and have written fanfic where he is unable to find a woman willing to be his mate...) but I still wouldn't choose STONN!

By John A. Lang on Saturday, July 07, 2001 - 06:42 am:

MISSED OPPORTUNITY
Spock SHOULD have had Kirk hail Vulcan and ask if T'Pring was still interested in Spock, and if she said, "No", Spock could've taken Chapel as his wife.

OOOOOOH! Now THAT I'd like to see.

By LUIGI NOVI on Saturday, July 07, 2001 - 10:36 pm:

RevdKathy: The way Spock describes the drive to return home, comparing it to the drive of salmon or eels certainly sounds like a genetically programmed need.

Luigi Novi: That's pretty much what I said. I opined that it was probably not natural, that it was a side effect of whatever genetic engineering the Vulcans conducted on themselves to help them suppress their emotions.

RevdKathy: I think the seven year cycle is something slightly different. It is not stated that the drive to return home occurs every seven years.

Luigi Novi: What else do you think they were referring to, Kathy? The mating urge is what they were talking about, and one aspect of it is the drive to return home to mate, as salmons do.

RevdKathy: How would Vulcans ever have coped with deep space missions?

Luigi Novi: They'd simply have to grin and bear it, as Tuvok did in Body and Soul(VOY). Many of them probably made sure they would not be in deep space when pon farr came around. Besides, the Federation only spans 8,000 light years by 2373, according to Picard in ST First Contact, which means that at maximum warp, you could cover most distances and return a crewman to Vulcan in time. Since this episode is 106 years prior to that, the Federation is presumably smaller. As for deep space assignments that take ships beyond Federation space, again, Vulcan crewmen (what few there were in Starfleet in Spock's time, that is), made sure they did not take assignments that did not allow them to return home in time.

RevdKathy: And we are given to believe that the Romulans are not subject to the seven year thing?

Luigi Novi: That's what I'd assume. Romulans never adopted the abstinence from emotions, and presumably did not partake in whatever genetic engineering or other method the other Vulcans used to suppress them. (This would all make a great story, by the way! Showing how Surak slowly gained a following, and how the society eventually was split into two factions, with those agreeing to suppress emotions on one side, and those who did not on the other. War may have ensued, and we might've seen just how illogical, and perhaps hypocritical the Surakan Vulcans got in order to preserve their supposedly "logical" philosophy [shades of Valeris, perhaps], and how the conservative Vulcans were forced to flee into space until they founded Romulus. Perhaps a neo-Romulan leader saw a vision in which he was guided to Romulus by a great bird, explaining the predominance of bird totems/motiffs in their culture. Perhaps the Surakan Vulcans chose to hide information on this war, for fear of dissent rising again, which is why it seemed by Balance of Terror that Spock wasn't sure if Romulans were in fact related to Vulcans. This story might also elaborate on how, by the time following ST VI, they too, decided to use genetic engineering, but not to remove emotion, but to perhaps to increase their intelligence, so that they could compete with the Vulcans, who they saw evolving into a more intellectually formidable adversary now that they had abandoned emotion, and how this resulted in the enlarged cranium we saw by The Neutral Zone(TNG).)

RevdKathy: I don't think any Vulcan ever said that the seven year cycle was caused by the build-up of emotions...

Luigi Novi: The brain fever is caused by the build-up of the chemical imbalance in the brain. This presumably causes the loss of control over emotions, and either causes, or is caused by (beats me which it is) the mating urge.

RevdKathy: I do think it is possible for such a cycle to evolve - assume that after Surak's time 'enlightenment' caused a radical drop in the birth rate: Those Vulcans who intermittently caved in to their former drives would proliferate, those who never did would die out. And there you have the evolution.

Luigi Novi: First of all, Kathy, you referred to the koon ut kal if fee as an evolutionary development, not the birth rate, or the proliferation of others. The koon ut kal if fee is a ritual, and as I said, the ritual is a cultural development, not an evolutionary one, which the society adapted to the biochemical/biophysical aspects of the Vulcan mating cycle.
---Second, I don't see what a decline in birth rate or a population proliferation of this type has to do with evolution. Evoloutionary changes take millions of years. The Time of Awakening was only about 2,000 years earlier.

RevdKathy: As to "I shall do neither" He's Vulcan - they say what they mean.

Luigi Novi: True. But he's still recovering from pon farr, Kathy. Or do you forget that emotional outburst at the very end of the episode when he sees that Kirk is still alive back on the Enterprise? I'm not saying I'm positive about this, or that you're definitely wrong. I just thought the line was open to interpretation.

RevdKathy: And they do have the death penalty as shown in "The menagerie"

Luigi Novi: Yes, I knew that.

RevdKathy: Thanks Sophie I thought I was the only one who had ever assumed that Spock was infertile (on the same principle as the mule). I agree they take interspecies mating too lightly

Luigi Novi: I don't know if you read Peter David's novels, Kathy, but he depicted what a Vulcan/non-Vulcan hybrid child was subjected to by his classmates in Renaissance, the second part of his three-part "Excalibur" novel trilogy, and it was quite shocking. (Yes, I know you're talking about the biological aspects, and not the social ones, but I thought it worth mentioning.)

By KAM on Sunday, July 08, 2001 - 04:21 am:

RevdKathy, T'Pring wasn't in her right mind when she decided against Spock, she was clearly... Stonned. ;-)

By RevdKathy on Sunday, July 08, 2001 - 01:40 pm:

Thanks for all the thought, Luigi, but I'm not sure I agree on all points.

You say that The Romluans left at the time of the enlightenment. Is there any canon to that effect? I am not familiar with DS9, and it may have been stated there. Otherwise, I don't think there's any evidence that they didn't leave a lot earlier. Long enough ago for the odd shaped cranium to have evolved naturally. Evolutionary change can be surprisingly fast - the average height of a human being, and the length of their foot digits have changed in the last hundred years (yes, our toes are getting shorter!). Also we are developing mental capacities unheard of before.

Evolution need not take aons of time. There is a case to be made for it occuring over quite short periods of time by genetic mutation rather than slow adaptation.

You repeat your statement that the Plack Tao (spelling??) is a result of the suppression of emotion. But where is the canon evidence to support it? It is quite possible that the irresistable urge to mate at intervals is a natural feature of all vulcanoid life forms, and may even have been part of the reason why Surak led the Vulcan people the way he did.

Nor do I see from the canon any reason why it cannot take two forms (as suggested by someone much earlier in this thread) - the regular septennial urge to mate, and the once-in-a-lifetime "big one" urge to return home and take a life partner. If you can refute this from canon, please do. This would also explain why Spock is suddenly taken by surprise by something that should have been expected in adult life.

I don't want to be dogmatic on the death penalty issue - but I think Spock's words are open to that interpretation. And I think he was quite himself when he grinned in sickbay!

No, I haven't read Peter David's novels. I shall look out for them. There are definite hints of racial bigotry, and especially bigotry towards a hybrid in this episode and the other notably Vulcan ones as well. Fascinating!

By LUIGI NOVI on Monday, July 09, 2001 - 12:08 am:

RevdKathy: Thanks for all the thought, Luigi, but I'm not sure I agree on all points.

Luigi Novi: Hey, to each his own, Kathy. By the way, do you mind my asking what "Revd" means? Just curious. And if you'd rather not say, then forget it.

RevdKathy: You say that The Romluans left at the time of the enlightenment. Is there any canon to that effect?

Luigi Novi: From pages 8-9 of The Star Trek Chronlogy(The Chronology uses only canonical information from the episodes and movies, with the sole exception of mentioning some of the material from the Animated Series episode "Yesteryear".) :

A.D. 1st-10th CENTURIES

The inhabitants of planet Vulcan engaged in terrible and destructive wars, a result of the violent passions and emotions that governed the Vulcan people. It was as savage time, even by Earth standards. Myths from this period descrbe a terrifying weapon of war called the Stone of Gol, that killed with the power of the mind.

In the midst of all this turmoil, the great philosopher Surak led the Vulcan people on the path to logic and peace, demonstrating enormous courage by working for peace in the face of war. It was a new beginning for the Vulcan people, known as the Time of Awakening. Later generations revered Surak as the father of Vulcan civilization.

Not all of Vulcan adopted Surak's teachings, however. Vulcan dissidents who still clung to their warrior ways left thier homeworld to found what became the Romulan Star Empire.

"The Savage Curtain"(TOS). Spock described Surak's role in Vulcan history. "Balance of Terror(TOS), "The Enterprise Incident"(TOS), and "Unification parts I and II(TNG) allude to the common Vulcan-Romulan ancestry. "Amok Time"(TOS) (see previous item) implied that the reformation (referred to in "Gambit, Part II"[TNG] as the "Time of Awakening") was about 2,000 years ago. In "All Our Yesterdays", McCoy noted that the primitive Spock had reverted to what Vulcans were like some 5,000 years before he was born, implying that the reformation was less than 5,000 years ago. "Gambit, Part II"(TNG) establishd the Time of Awakening as 2,000 years ago, and also established the Stone of Gol. That episode also established the ancient Debrune as beign Romulan offshoots about 2,000 years ago, reinforcing the theory that the Vulcan-Romulan split occurred at about the time of Surak.

Editor's Note: It is interesting to note the the Vulcans and the Romulans apparently had significant interstellar spaceflight capabilities perhaps two millennia before Earth did.

The above passage is quoted word for word. The "1st-10th CENTURIES" heading, by the way, refers not to the entry for the Awakening, but for the different unrelated events grouped together from pages 8-10. While the entry for the Awakening is not given a more specific date, the second one after that is given as A.D. 370, meaning the Awakening was before that.

RevdKathy: Long enough ago for the odd shaped cranium to have evolved naturally.

Luigi Novi: Kathy, such evolutionary changes occur over MILLIONS of years. The Vulcans/Romulans had spaceflight 2,000 years ago. I don't think they had it MILLIONS of years ago. Moreover, even if you dismiss all the information I quoted above, the Romulans didn't have the enlarged craniums during the original series, or even as late as ST V & VI. The enlarged cranium appeared somewhere between ST VI and The Neutral Zone(TNG), a span of only 71 years, Kathy, WAY too small a span of time for such a change to occur "naturally".

RevdKathy: Evolutionary change can be surprisingly fast - the average height of a human being, and the length of their foot digits have changed in the last hundred years (yes, our toes are getting shorter!). Also we are developing mental capacities unheard of before.

Evolution need not take aons of time. There is a case to be made for it occuring over quite short periods of time by genetic mutation rather than slow adaptation.

Luigi Novi: Well, I admit I'm not a paleontologist or geneticist, Kathy, but I hope you'll excuse me if I draw a big distinction between subtle changes like change in the size of toes in discreet amounts, like centimeters, or the average height of humans, and radical changes in the size of a race's cranium in only 71 years. If you'd like to take this question to an expert in these matters, like experts in genetics and evolution, and, any of them feels this is plausible, I'd be more than happy to hear what they have to say.

RevdKathy: You repeat your statement that the Plack Tao (spelling??) is a result of the suppression of emotion. But where is the canon evidence to support it?

Luigi Novi: I said the plak-tow was caused by the chemical imbalance in the brain. This was stated in both Blood Fever(VOY) and Body and Soul(VOY). As for the notion of this being a side effect of the suppression of emotions, I never said it was canon. I said it was my guess. Let me quote two of my statements from above:

From my July 5 post:

It has always been my guess that because the drive towards no emotions was a social movement, one instituted by Surak (?), that Vulcans used a variety of genetic engineering, drugs, etc., to take control of their emotions, and that the seven-year chemical imbalance buildup in their brains was one of the results of it, (intentional or unintentional)...

From my July 7 post:

The brain fever is caused by the build-up of the chemical imbalance in the brain. This presumably causes the loss of control over emotions, and either causes, or is caused by (beats me which it is) the mating urge.

If I gave the impression that I thought my theory was canon, I apologize.

RevdKathy: It is quite possible that the irresistable urge to mate at intervals is a natural feature of all vulcanoid life forms, and may even have been part of the reason why Surak led the Vulcan people the way he did.

Luigi Novi: Not a bad theory, Kathy. I guess theories are just like opinions and A$$HOLES. Everyone's got one!

By RevdKathy on Tuesday, July 17, 2001 - 04:51 am:

Sorry to be so long to get back to you, Luigi. Real Life can be a pain sometimes. Thanks for all the stuff from the "chronology"... sadly not always quite such a reliable source as it claims. Not least because later Trek is not always as careful with timeline as it should be.

I guess I'm just a little twitchy about the assumption (made by McCoy, actually in the ep) that Pon Farr is a direct result of the emotional suppression. That sounds such a human spin to put on something essentially alien. Like, that's what would happen to us if we tried to live like that (in fact, Nimoy records in his biog that living inside the Vulcan's psyche caused him occasional emotional storms which were somewhat embarrassing!). So much of the power of the early Trek aliens was in the fact that they were truly alien unlike modern Trek, where they're all just like us, only a bit different.

We know that Surak led the people the way he did because they were overwhelmed by the passion of their emotions... (recall what Sarek said about Vulcan emotions in TNG). Maybe Pon Farr was always part of their make up.

The Revd is short for Reverend, and indicates that I'm a clergy person. People know me by that handle from other Trek sites, so I stick with it.

By LUIGI NOVI on Wednesday, July 18, 2001 - 12:50 am:

RevdKathy: Sorry to be so long to get back to you, Luigi. Real Life can be a pain sometimes.

Luigi Novi: Hey, don't worry, Kathy, at least you HAVE a life! Besides, I genuinely enjoy our exchanges, and if I have to wait for them, so be it.

RevdKathy: [The Chronology is] sadly not always quite such a reliable source as it claims. Not least because later Trek is not always as careful with timeline as it should be.

Luigi Novi: Well, first of all, given the amount of Trek material, the timeline holds up fairly well, even despite all the mistakes. Moreover, most of the continuity violations on Voyager have been confined to its own plots (as in the case of all the contradictions of its distance from home, jumps made through space, crew count, torpedo count, etc.), and not things that affect the Alpha Quadrant shows.
---Second, the fact that mistakes are made (which is impossible to avoid over 35 years) does not invalidate all of the information. Remember, the information in The Chronology and The Encyclopedia is simply the information from the episodes and movies themselves. Saying the books are not reliable is like saying that the episodes and movies themselves are not reliable, which would seem to make the entire discussion moot anyway. I also must respectfully disagree with your decision to reject information from an episode simply because it came from an offworlder while embracing information in a biography, despite the fact that episodes are canonical, and opinions and conjecture by actors is not. Internally what you say makes sense, but externally, writers often intend conclusions and assumptions reached by characters to be the correct one. Ezri's deduction in Field of Fire(DS9) that the killer was going after people who had pictures of people smiling and laughing in their quarters was utterly ridiculous, because EVERYONE has such pictures in their quarters. When was the last time you saw pictures of people frowning in someone's house? But the conclusion was obviously the correct one, because that's what the writer intended.

In any case, to each his own.

RevdKathy: The Revd is short for Reverend, and indicates that I'm a clergy person.

Luigi Novi: Cool! What denomination? Pentacostal?

By RevdKathy on Tuesday, July 24, 2001 - 03:31 am:

Sorry Luigi I replied to this ages ago... and now I pop back to post something else, and find my post vanished. Must have got sucked into a temporal anomaly or summat!

To answer your last question, Methodist. There are lots of us interested in Trek. I worked for a while in a team of 8, during TNG's first runs in the UK. Regardless of the crisis, you simply couldn't get a minister on Wednesday at 6pm, cos none of us would answer our phones!. Over at Treknation, we have at least one URC, and one Catholic priest, to my knowledge.

I'm a little uneasy about accepting stuff from the chronology on two grounds. One is that I've seen too many threads on other boards condemning it as wrong (or possibly outdated). The other is a recognition of the human tendancy to make assumptions. Not A does not necessarily mean B, if you see what I mean. You'd be surprised how many internet sites I've seen stating it as canon that Plak Tow is a direct result of emotional suppression, which is stated nowhere in canon. Interestingly, Voyager does record what part of the brain is used in that suppression - and relates it to the telepathic abilities, I think (?)

Now... what I came here to post (and found my last post had gone fishing) was a quick: Kudos! Applause! for Mr Nimoy. I put several sound bites on my computer, including the "Captain I accept on your word..." speech from the turbolift. To emphasise the difficulty Spock is having, he stammers slightly. And it's superbly, gracefully done. Stammering naturally is actually quite difficult if you don't have a stammer to begin with. Spock sounds exactly as if he's trying to cover up his stress.

By John A. Lang on Wednesday, August 08, 2001 - 06:30 pm:

MISSED OPPORTUNITY:

Chapel beaming down and grabbing the lirpa and attacking T'Pring with it saying, "If you don't want Spock, I'll take 'em...and let's see you try and stop me from taking him too, sister!"
(Wiping saliva from mouth)

(Just giving other women equal time here)

By Anonymous on Thursday, August 09, 2001 - 12:33 am:

Have you ever even BEEN on a date with a real live woman, John?

By stephen on Saturday, November 10, 2001 - 06:32 pm:

The discussion between Luigi and Kathy is fascinating. I have another bit of evidence to contribute. Spock throws the bowl of plomeek soup at Chapel out of embarrassment, not lust; and at the end he's happy that Kirk is still alive.
So those two bits suggest that *all* the emotions are let loose, not just the mating urge.
People mention the nasty tone T'Pau uses; but maybe we shouldn't make assumptions/draw conclusions. She's not human, she has an accent, she's old, her voice might not express attitudes the same way a young, healthy human's voice would.
I don't condone what T'Pring did but I always thought T'Pring had a point, about wanting a husband home instead of always traveling all over. But there should have been a venue for her to express her preference for Stonn.
Especially if Stonn's intended or wife died recently.
Spock says about pon farr, "we do not speak of it with outworlders, or among ourselves."
Let's take that with a grain of salt; he's under the influence of pon farr, his statements might be exaggerated. It might not be entirely a secret, just something very confidential.
When humans first asked Vulcans about their mating practices, and Vulcans didn't want to answer, that would make humans curious and suspicious. So what would Vulcans do to stop humans from making up hilarious speculations about Vulcan mating practices?

By glenn of nas on Friday, January 11, 2002 - 05:45 pm:

Note when Kirk, Spock and McCoy first beam down to Vulcan, Spock goes up the two steps and walks to the front of the platform and Kirk and McCoy step up. Then the scene shifts to the front and Spock again has to walk to the front of the platform.

By qttroassi on Monday, March 04, 2002 - 01:35 pm:

I can't understand why science fiction critics and sci-fi historians make such a big deal out of Nimoys' mistake during "pon far" in the backround during the scenes on Vulcan. They call this a "classic blooper". To notice this you really have to pay close attention, you may even have to play back and watch the the scene over again if you miss.

The cast and crew of the orginal series of Star Trek made production mistakes that were a lot worse ... Wouldn't everyone else agree ???

By kerriem on Monday, March 04, 2002 - 02:42 pm:

The fact that it's not obvious onscreen, qttroassi, doesn't mean it's not a horrendous production error in the first place.
Think back to all the many hours of tv drama you've seen; how many include any footage at all of an actor out of character...let alone one relaxing when he's supposed to be in a passionate frenzy?

By glenn of nas on Wednesday, July 24, 2002 - 07:47 pm:

I hate to nitpick the greatest scene in history ....but....I must. When Kirk goes to Spocks quarters. He stands in front of Spock and Spock reaches for a pen. Kirk grabs Spocks hand with his Left hand. The scene shifts as Spock pulls away and Kirk lets go with his Right hand.

By glenn of nas on Thursday, July 25, 2002 - 03:42 pm:

Also Spock doesn't hold on to the pen, but the close-up shows he has it.

By Rene on Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 10:05 pm:

Why doesn't Spock ask for leave ahead of time?

By ScottN on Monday, November 11, 2002 - 01:50 pm:

Given how ritualistic Vulcan society appears to be, and how T'Pau says that this ceremony has 'come from the beginning' (not an exact quote, I'm afraid), why is Spock wearing a Starfleet uniform instead of ceremonial clothes? Didn't anyone think of the logical solution of bringing a set for him to change into?

By ScottN on Monday, November 11, 2002 - 01:56 pm:

T'Pau gives the Vulcan salute left handed.

By John A. Lang on Wednesday, November 27, 2002 - 06:56 pm:

Why didn't the Vulcan ritual of "The Challenge" exclude "outsiders"? The episode makes it clear that: "it's a highly personal thing...something for outsiders not to know!" So,what I am saying is: when T'Pring chose Kirk as her champion, the answer should have been "NO"---automatically....because Kirk is an "outsider". Yet, T'Pau allows Kirk to accept or deny the challenge. Isn't this a contradiction?

By ScottN on Wednesday, November 27, 2002 - 09:00 pm:

But, logically, once an outsider has been accepted into the ceremony, he has all the attendant rights, priviliges, and responsibilities. Therefore the challenge was NOT a contradiction.

By John A. Lang on Wednesday, November 27, 2002 - 09:06 pm:

Ah, I get it. thanx.

GREAT LINE: "Art thee Vulcan or art thee human?" T'Pau to Spock....She knows Spock is not 100% Vulcan and she is questioning Spock's request to exclude Kirk