Email from Martin Murphy. Responses are in Italics are from Peter Lydon as Secretary of Ballymun New Century Development Group

Hi Peter. 

Sorry I have not phoned but this has been due to work committments. 

I note that you have not displayed my letter to your group and would be pleased if you were to do so. 
As I previously stated, I would only do so with your consent which I haven’t received until now, even though I could anyway.  But now I have your consent, your letter will be placed on our letters page.  

I see that you have listed some of your members names and their status as community activists 
but am disappointed that you have not specified all of their community interests ie recording studios. 
What people do in and with their private lives is their business.  Surely you are not suggesting that I interfere with their rights in that regard?  Do members of BRL or the Ballymun Housing Task Force Limited publicise their private activities? No.  And if a particular interest is to serve the wider community, is this wrong?

On the matter of your groups aims I note that, You fail to use the term people in Aim 1, 
I believe one definition of ‘community’, which we did use, is ‘a body of people living in the same locality’. ‘People’ is implied by way of definition in the use of the word ‘community’.

You fail to mention residential housing in Aim 2, 
As for Aim 1, housing is implied in the use of the words ‘interest’, ‘environmental’ and ‘any other such interest’.

You fail to state that your group will impose its assistance on those who do not seek same in Aim 3. 
Besides the fact that there are legal precedents for this, to have failed to do something we would have had to have had that intention. Unlike BRL and Ballymun Housing Task Force Limited we do not intend imposing anything on any person.  This particular aim is our objective and we are available to fulfil it.

In Aim 4 you state that you will advise the community of any impingement to the future development of their community yet you have failed to advise them of the fact that certain members of your group may have hidden agendas of interest to themselves, interests which they place above those of the community. 
Perhaps you could tell me what these are and what your evidence of this is.  I couldn’t possible answer this question since I do not share the same opinion.  I note the fact you say ‘may’ indicating that you are uncertain of this yourself.
You will note that we wish to promote openness,  transparency and accountability.  This applies to everyone in our group also.  I can guarantee you I would not be otherwise involved.  Perhaps you can tell me what your personal interests in the regeneration is, for example, what type of house you will be assigned, if that of course, is not asking too much.

The people of Clarke tower now realise that certain members of and persons associated with your group are using every tool at their disposal to stop the regeneration of Ballymun until such time as their own demands and needs are met. 
This is an unfortunate perception and one which is typical of the ‘divide and conquer’ tactics referred to by members of the community at BRL public meetings.  A couple of facts will help you eradicate the misinformation they have received.  Perhaps also you can pass it on to whoever created the misinformation in the first place. 
1.	NO ONE can STOP the regeneration (except the government and BRL…..hmmmm now there’s a thought.)  The Dublin City Development plan allows for the regeneration of Ballymun and virtually nothing BRL does will contravene it in anyway.  Of course, I say this irrespective of the fact that BRL is under the control of Dublin Corporation.

2.	I do wonder however how BRL and the Corporation have managed to convince everyone in local government that pulling the flats down in the middle of a housing crisis is a good idea.  Every councillor seems silent on the matter and I wonder if they know something we don’t.

3.	Can you possibly confirm for me that the flats will actually be pulled down? And that when this happens, the asbestos contained in them will be safely removed without endangering the health of adjacent residents? And further can you confirm that if and when McDonagh Tower is imploded or dismantled in sections, that it’s removal will not negatively affect the work already done on the Community Arts and Resource Centre?

4.	NO ONE in our group is opposed to the regeneration.  In fact all of us are wholehearted behind the proper regeneration of Ballymun.  Aren’t you?  You can choose not to believe this, but that will be your problem to solve.

5.	Our Group merely, no more and no less, wants to see those residents who want houses to be given them.  We want them to have proper housing.  On this point, perhaps you can give your opinion on the fact that in some two bedroom apartments (Santry Lane scheme 0434/99) the second bedroom is part of the living room and, according the planners report, below the recommended minimum size.  AND that the 2 bedroom apartment is below the recommended minimum size.  How do residents in Clarke tower feel about this?  Won’t some to them be getting 2 bedroom apartments?  I assume however you knew this because after all, BRL and the Ballymun Housing Task Force Limited are keeping you informed aren’t they?.

6.	Our group will, when it is in the interests of the community, to say nothing of our own right to make representations on our individual behalf, use whatever legal means are available to us to ensure that Ballymun is regenerated properly and for the common good.  This is our democratic right.  Surely no one would deny anybody their democratic rights?

They are now aware that there are those who place the need for community groups and businesses to be accommodated above the housing requirements of the residents. 
I wonder who would do such a thing. BRL perhaps?  See my comments at the end of this email regarding the amount of land given to commercial concerns by BRL compared to housing needs.  

 And I wonder who would feed people this misinformation.  Although I do recognise that community groups are concerned to be re-housed and these concerns deserve to be listened to.  
All I can do is reassure them that Ballymun New Century Development Group places the housing needs of people first.  However we realise that the future success of Ballymun depends NOT only on the re-housing programme (assuming this will actually happen in full), but on an all-round regeneration.  

That’s why it’s called Ballymun Regeneration, not Ballymun Re-housing.

They are of the opinion that affected community groups should have sought their support rather than adopting what they perceive as the blackmailers stance of " no premises for me no house for you ". 
I don’t believe community groups have adopted any such stance.  Perhaps you can tell me the rationale behind this opinion?
Of course if BRL had included community groups properly in proper consultation process, they, like many others, would not be seeking ‘regeneration benefits’ on their own.  But do you seriously suggest to me that any group or individual is not allowed to represent their own concerns?  That they must do it through others?  That sounds very like a communist mind set if you do.  
We would welcome the support of Clarke Tower residents of course.  If you would like us to meet with them to give them the information we have, we can arrange this.  They can then make up their own minds about our integrity and desire to ensure that they are re-housed properly.

All feel that a meeting between them and others to discuss the size of their bedrooms, kitchens, 
bathrooms etc is not the platform for playing community politics and are of the opinion that this has been done in the past in an effort to extract concessions from BRL. 
I agree.  However public and open public meetings are bound to attract a wide variety of interests.  Do you suggest people do not express their opinion?  Of course, despite the ‘public’ part of the meeting, residents who will be dictated the house they will be assigned have a better chance to discuss the above issues in BRL’s ‘up-close-and-personal-and-private-one-to-one-chat-with-the-architects’ sessions where, I might add, no one can witness BRL committing to anything.  

Many who would have been ardent supporters of community groups now see them as a threat to the building of their new homes and will no longer offer their support. Some now see community groups as covert groups meeting in secret with the sole aim of denying them their new homes. 
You say ‘many’.  Who are these ‘many’? 
However it sounds like a conspiracy if you ask me. I wonder who is behind it? 
 If anybody or group wants to meet us they can write to The Secretary, Ballymun New Century Development Group c/o 1 Sillogue Road, Ballymun, Dublin 11.  We are eager to talk to people and give them our analysis of the regeneration programme as it stands so that they can evaluate as many proposals as possible.  They should write indicating the subject of the meeting they would like to have.

These are serious developments, a very definite line of division is being drawn between our residents and community groups. Many residents feel that they are being forced to take sides 
……..between their own personal interests and the greater common good?  Mind you I can understand how they feel. Flats are no places for families.

and say that they now see community groups as an enemy whose sole interest is to obtain guarantees of premises for themselves in exchange for allowing the construction of houses to commence. Some have even suggested that the corporation should be approached with a view to evicting community groups from their current premises as this would remove the need to facilitate them in the new Ballymun. 
Regardless of what community groups want, if BRL is to build houses for people, they will be able to build.
However this comment is most unfortunate.  To think that people have been misled by those would would seek to disenfranchise members of the Ballymun community.  Personally I believe BRL created this situation. Maybe you could ask BRL to correct it? Of course I hope residents would not be so undemocratic as to suggest eradicating community groups in order to silence their concerns.  This is really communist thinking.

Some in their innocense see no need for many community groups after regeneration as they imagine all problems will be solved by the redevelopment itself. 
I trust you will put them right on this point.

Some comments from residents, 
" Who do this shower think they are, what gives them the right to deny me a home ". 
We abhor anyone or any group that would seek to deny people in the flats the right to proper housing.
" Who asked any community group to speak on my behalf ". 
No one is speaking on anyone’s behalf unless it is requested. We do represent certain people and groups in Ballymun.  Who asked anyone if they wanted Ballymun Housing Task Force Limited to speak on their behalf?

" Why don`t the corporation **** them out of the flats they have and give them to families ". 
I thought people wanted to get families out of the flats? 

" Whats a foreign ******* doing in ballymun in the first place, has he got planning permission 
for his ******* music studio ". 
I don’t dignify ethnocidal comments.  Perhaps this could be re-phased and then I will answer it.

.
" We should take to the streets and protest outside their flats ". 
Because such a threat would force them to shut up and we don’t want to hear any dissenting opinions?

" We should all work together, all the decent residents and good community groups should get 
houses and offices ". 
I totally agree.  This is exactly what Ballymun New Century Development Group is trying to do.  Inform and unite the community in order to  get a proper regeneration that benefits everyone, especially the weak and vulnerable members of our community who are being sold pipe dreams and who are being misled by the unethical, the distrustful, the liars and by outsiders who really don’t care at the end of the day because they live in a nice, middle class,  leafy suburb miles away with lots of green space and facilities or even in another county

" These people are playing into the corpos hands, they are splitting the community, this suits the 
corpo, they love to devide and conquer ". 
I believe this is what BRL have done if the evidence of the ‘public meetings’ is anything to go by.  

It would suit BRL even more if those who had dissenting opinions kept their mouths shut.  Then they could turn around at the end of the day and say ‘well, you never protested when the regeneration was being carried out, you can hardly expect us to listen to you now when all the work is done’. .

" How come I never heard of these ******* until now, who are they, what do they do, where do they come from, do the ******* even live in ballymun ". 
Most of us have been around for quite some time.  Anyone living in Ballymun for a length of time (I have been here 33 years and have been involved in the community at various times for the past 15 years) would have heard of us at one stage or another.  However my comment here does not remove anyone’s right to ‘appear’ at any time and protest about the destruction and division within their community.  That’s called democracy.  

Unlike BRL and the management of Ballymun Housing Task Force Limited, we all live in Ballymun..

" They are ******* traitors bringing outsiders into ballymun, this ******* environment crowd did not know where ballymun was until that belgian ****** gave them the address ". 
BRL and Ballymun Housing Task Force Limited are made up mostly of outsiders yet this doesn’t seem to be a problem in this comment.  
Am I to believe that outsiders can come in a dictate to us but Ballymun residents can not even state an opinion?  I suppose some Belgian gave them the address too.  However we all live here and have done so for most of our lives.

" My kids need a house, they need a garden, I need peace and security, I think the people 
disrupting the meetings are very selfish and do not care about me or my kids ". 
We do care about the kids.  BRL will build only 12 playgrounds in Ballymun.  Given the total population under the age of 12 years, this works out at 333 kids per playground.  I know of only one planned playground, located at Santry Lane and which will be 100sq. metres in size (same floor space as a three bedroom flat).  Imagine even a small proportion of 333 kids in that space at any one time. Some houses will not have gardens (EIS for Gateway Housing).  Is that what you want?  We believe there should be more playgrounds for kids.  We also want special measures taken in the education sector to remove the disadvantage children in education in disadvantaged areas experience. But then BRL and Dublin Corporation have no responsibility for education.  That’s up to the Department of Education which is NOT involved in the regeneration.

How will you have peace and security when there will be large car parks close to your housing (wide open spaces, according to BRL facilitate anti-social behaviour). We think BRL is being very selfish.  If you would like us to represent your concerns, feel free to contact us.

" I heard that most of the ones causing the trouble are single men, its all right for them, they don`t have children to bring up, they can manage in a flat, its handier to clean and cheaper, 
hardly an argument for leaving the flats if you do have a family!!!!!!
thats why they are doing this, they have nothing to lose unlike families " 
Our members have families of their own also.
.By the way, we aren’t causing trouble, we are exercising a democratic right in what we believe is a responsible manner, not just for the sake of it.

" Where are the tenants associations, have they become the silent majority, why don`t they get 
these people thrown out of the flats and basements they are using to stop the regeneration " 
They have become silent (where they still exist) because they were ignored and sidelined by BRL who, like Ballymun Housing Task Force Limited whom we believe wanted forums they could control.  Hence the new constitution which they are trying to get the Forums to adopt courtesy of Tenants First Limited, a Dundalk based company.  How’s that for outsiders?  

" That mouthpiece that slagged off the girl from poppintree when she tried to speak at the meeting, he proved he was only a thug, BRL should have called the guards and got him arrested " 
I wonder who this ‘mouth piece’ is and who the ‘girl from poppintree’ is?  And I wonder why the person who made this comment did not notice BRL treatment of her/his fellow residents?  And are you seriously suggesting we should arrest people for expressing an opinion.  
Though whoever the man was that ‘slagged’ off the girl, well, I disapprove of that kind of immature behaviour.  If you can not state an opinion in a civilised and respectful manner, you do yourself a greater disservice than you do the target of the your comments.

" We need our community groups, football teams, playgroups, youth clubs, links and Kathleen Mahers crowd should definitely get new premises, they should build two towers like the ones in the plans at the other end of the main street to house community groups, I would not support this until the houses are all built, I think your man taking everyone to court should be blacklisted ". 
I will definitely need confirmation of this comment.  I don’t know a single reasonable person who can see the logic in tearing down the flats only to build new ones. This person would have us have FOUR new  towers.  The TWO new ones are bad enough (BTW these are for students or for conversion into 300 bedspace apartments according to the advertisement for tenders in the newspapers).
Besides, while we want the community groups to be re-housed in addition to the residents, it does not make common sense to put them all in a tower which would be vacant at certain times.  It would be better to have groups located in the community areas that use them.  Certainly it is clear, for example, that Coultry Children will not cross over to Sillogue to use a youth club. 

This sounds like a BRL comment rather than one tenants who you said earlier on wanted to ‘throw community groups out’.

As for the man taking ‘everyone’ to court, besides showing an ignorance of the facts, does this person seek to deny a person their democratic right to take any action they deem necessary, once it is legal, to safeguard their rights?

" Community groups do nothing for me, they are just a nosy bunch who want to play at being important, I say close them all down, I probably would have supported them but not now, close them down ". 
Is this a comment about the Ballymun Housing Task Force Limited?

" These people fail to realise that the greatest acknowlement of a community groups success is when it is no longer needed ". 
This person fails to realise that the greatest success of a community group is that it is always needed.

" I see this in black and white, its either us or them,
that doesn’t help at all…

 they started this when they would not let me speak at the meeting, I wanted to know about my new home, they treated me like dirt, it was like they thought they were something special and I was nothing, they acted like they snobs talking down to scumbags from ballymun, it would have been different if my fella had of been there". 
Sounds like this was BRL and BHTFL. I experienced the very same treatment and I know how you must feel.  Didn’t you go up to the architects at the end like everyone was invited to?

" I think they should be ****, the guards should look at who`s going into santry woods, they might be interested in what I hear is growing there ". 
Does this person know something the Gardai should be informed of, and how and what do they know?  I’d hate to think someone was allowing something to happen that shouldn’t by not informing the Gardai.  Can you ask them to inform the Gardai please?

" It would suit some people better to wash themselves, they get up in public looking like something that came from a dump, saying they are from ballymun makes a show of us". 
now who is this person talking about?  And  whenever I have worn a suit, people didn’t believe I came from Ballymun…strange that isn’t it?

" I think the rest of us should stick together and ignore them, the corporation will steamroll over them, 
Like they will everyone else?

when they come crawling back for help to get premises we should object at every opportunity, in fact 
what?…and do the very thing this letter says we shouldn’t be doing?  Is this double standards or what?

we should object now, the flats were built for residential use, planning permission would be needed to use them as offices or clubs, I am going to take this up with the corporation ". 
The corporation provided the leases to the groups to use these premises.  Remember first the heaps of money the Corporation saved by having clubs and community groups in the flats rather than squatters and drug dealers.

" We all think we are clever but all the goings ons just lets outsiders reassure themselves that the people of ballymun are thick and ignorant ". 
Of course if Ballymun people can show that they won’t just take something like it was a gift and that they will stand up and defend their Human Rights then they would earn the respect of others. And they can show that they can research the issues and inform themselves of the truths of the regeneration.

" I live over a community group, I have never objected to noise or anything else, now these people want to stop me and my family from getting a house, I think its time I fought back, I am going to object to being the victim of disturbance and see if I can get the place closed down, I think everyone else living near a group premises should do the same if they are being disturbed in any way ". 
We are against noise pollution and that why we are concerned about the fact that people in their new housing may have industrial premises for their next door neighbour (Gateway Housing Scheme for example)

" I applied for poppintree, I was born there, after what that ignorant ******* spoonface said to my friend I see that the elite in poppintree do not want the likes of me so I have asked to be housed elsewhere, I think the people in poppintree have a nerve they see us as dirt moving in beside them but they are quite happy to see their children getting flats when it suits them, they even have flats to use for their community groups, I think they should be put out of the flats and made use houses in their own estate for their associations, they would not like that, its all right for their kids to hang around the flats annoying people but they don`t want them on their own doorstep ". 
Of course it might be nice to have a strong tenants association wherever you finally decide to live (assuming BRL give you the choice) just in case something goes wrong.

Please supply names and address for all these comments for confirmation purposes.

Peter these are just some of the comments made by people I have spoken to regarding the regeneration. Needless to say there were many others covering a wide range of issues but I feel thet you need to be aware of the huge rift which is developing within this community. 
The rift is already there courtesy of BRL and BHFTL.

I dare to suggest that this must be stopped now. Your group regardless of its intent is being perceived as an anti regeneration, anti resident organisation which associates with and allows itself to be used by self interested persons and groups who care little for the future wellbeing of the residents of ballymun. 
You know better and since you have spoken to these people I trust you will responsibly tell them the truth.  Our primary interest is in the proper re-housing of Ballymun residents in a holistically planned regeneration process facilitated by a genuine and properly defined and inclusive consultation process.

I imagine that your group would serve itself and the community better if it were to distance itself from those mentioned and go about actively seeking the support of the residents for its genuine issues. 
We are……but BRL and BHFTL makes this very difficult through its particular tactics. 

BRL could also help by supplying the information I requested but they haven’t.  Wonder why?  Me too.  Maybe they haven’t planned the regeneration properly so the information doesn’t exist or may be they are afraid we’ll figure out something from the information they’d prefer to keep hidden.  
Maybe you could ask them to supply the information I requested?

We all accept that there are valid points to every argument
We all who?  These comments do not show any cognisance of the validity of or right to alternative view points.
At leastBallymun New Century Development Group accept that there are dissenting opinions to ours and we are prepared to hear these because we know that the regeneration can be good if a consensus approach is adopted.

but must accept that at the end of the day most residents primary concern is that they get a good house. 
Most residents concerns are dictated by their current knowledge.  They have been only told they will get a house (even though in reality it will be a ‘housing unit’).  If they were aware of the other issues involved and the information which exists on them, you might find that while housing remains the most important aspect, the other issues will be of a major concern to them.
However the ‘re-housing only’ issue goes against the spirit of the regeneration as you would agree.  
We acknowledge the primary concern of tenants is to get a house and that is our primary focus.  

However like I said, this is not just a re-housing programme, it’s a regeneration programme.  

Your final comment invalidated the penultimate comment.  And in addition to that, it takes no cognisance of the cost - economic, financial, social, and environmental - to tenants themselves of their re-housing.  Do they want to end up living in a slum?  
There are 875 acres of land in Ballymun.  At  a density of 20 houses per acre (upper end of medium density) one could build 17500 houses.  
BRL only needs to build 2820 public authority houses.  That requires only 141 acres at 20 houses per acre.  That’s houses NOT apartments or massionettes (see point below).  
Yet BRL is taking 306 acres at least and 165 acres at least for commercial use.  I say at least because 141 acres is not been given over to housing.  This is because BRL are building the housing units at higher densities, in some case, at 35 ‘units’ per acre.  So the space given to ‘housing units’ is even less than 141 acres.

Regarding apartments.  We viewed the architectural drawings for Santry Avenue and it appears that the intention is to place wooden floors between separate apartments.  Can you tell me if this is contrary to fire regulations? It is now to late to do anything about this but we would like to see a higher standard applied.  Perhaps you could inform BRL and the ballymun Housing Task Force Limited?

I think I have said enough here and in my other replies to convince you of the integrity of what we are doing and of our concerns for the future housing of the people living in the flats.  

Hopefully you will now accept that we genuinely want to see the people in the flats re-housed, if that is their wish, according to their genuine and real needs. 

And I think I have clarified sufficiently the fact that the future well being of the community of Ballymun lies not just in the re-housing programme but also in an integrated and comprehensive programme of regeneration and that that is or wish for Ballymun.  

This last wish is precisely why we feel the government, and not Dublin Corporation, should have carried out the programme with the involvement of all the relevant government departments rather than have Department of the Environment just handing the money to Dublin Corporation and leaving them to make the same mistakes they made in the 1960’s.  

I am curious to explain how it is that people who for so long distrusted Dublin Corporation because if the mess they made in Ballymun were so quick to accept Dublin Corporations involvement in regeneration.  Perhaps you can explain?

If you remain unconvinced then I have to say I doubt your motives and your acceptance of my honesty in these matters.  I will wait for your reply to my reply to your last email before we arrange to place it on the website.  I will however place this on the website since it is self contained.

Yours sincerely 
Peter
Yours Sincerely, 
Martin. 
Ps Thanks for your help with the computer it prevented the night from being spoiled for us. 
I’m only too happy to help BRL with whatever problems it has.
PS I have many other skills which would be helpful to BRL however I prefer to use them to help the Ballymun community – the very  people who live here who have for so long suffered under the failure of Dublin Corporation to abide by its civic responsibilities.